Radio Miraya
2825: DEMOCRACY IN ACTION: Inclusion of Rights of People with Disabilities in South Sudan's Constitution
[Music] Democracy in action, a program on how a state functions, featuring in-depth discussions with experts on governance, politics and decision-making. [Music] Tune in, as every week we explore the complexities of governance. What is democracy? What is your role as a citizen? [Music] All these and more in Democracy in Action, Thursday at 9 a.m. with a repeat at 9 p.m. the same day, stay informed and engaged with Democracy in Action, Radio Miraya, The Voice of Peace. [Music] Hello and welcome to Democracy in Action. My name is Sani Marti and you are coming to life from March, Juba and today our discussion is going to be focused on disability inclusion in the constitution-making process. That's what we are going to be discussing in our lines. We'll open to you later on where you can call on 092-9686-297. Those are all our lines. You can also call us on 091-2079 or you can send us your question or SMS number 091-2177-141 as we discuss the inclusion of persons living with disability in the constitution-making process. That's what we are going to be looking at. It has more advocates calling for the inclusion of people with disability in the country's constitution-making process as provided in 2018 in the battle aspects agreement. They also say that embracing effective and meaningful participation of persons with disability in our societal transformation process is very good and it is also their constitutional right. So the question we are asking today is what mechanisms are being put in place to ensure that persons with disability are included in the upcoming constitution-making process. That's what we are going to be discussing here with my serious guest who already seated here with me in the studio. Here's our lines to open to you later on. Let me take this chance to welcome Mandel Isaac who is the managing director of society transformation for equal rights. Welcome to Red Miraya Mandel. Thank you, Sami Martin. Thank you to the Miraya listeners, our regular callers who have always been calling Miraya FM. I wanted to be here and looking for the discussion. Thank you so much. Thank you too. And also I have Maot Luiz, who is a member of the National Constitutional Review Commission. You are most welcome to Red Miraya Mandel. Thank you so much, Sami Martin. And good morning to all Miraya listeners who are listening to us through the radio and online and through the other platforms. It is my pleasure to be here with us and we will share with you and we will interact. Thank you. Thank you so much. And we have a vital partner from an unmissed political affairs, Oli Pieda. You are most welcome to Red Miraya to join us in this important discussion. Thank you very, very much, Sami. It is my pleasure to be here. Please feel free to call me Oli. Yes, Oli. You are most welcome. You can write away, Mandela and Maot, I will ask you this. Just give us a clear definition of disability and what are the different forms of disability that people live with when you talk about inclusion. So we want to set the grand right for us to discuss about who is a disabled person and why it is also very important for them to be included in this upcoming constitution making process. Mandela first. Thank you. Thank you, Sami. Thank you. Defining disability, it's just a situation where people with impairment interact with various barriers that affect all hinder their full and effective participation on an eco basis with others. And to do a convention on the rights of persons with disability, it is states that persons with disabilities are those who have long-term mental, physical, sensory impairment in which in their interaction with various barriers may hinder their full participation on an eco basis with others. That means disability is a result. It is just like barriers. So with the persons with disabilities in general, we have an impairment. We do not have disability. But because of the society, because of the barriers, it not limits us from functioning over from performing effectively on an eco basis with others. So we are not people with disabilities, but we have people who have different impairment. Now coming to the types of impairment you talked about, types of disability, types of impairment you talked about, we have the visual impairment, we have the hearing impairment, we have those ones with intellectual disability, we have those with epilepsy, we have those with albinism, the list is really, really long and those with the physical impairment, they are very many. So I throw back the ball to you. Thank you. Okay. Yes. My word, is there anything you want to add to what Mandela said earlier? On my part, I will not repeat what Mandela has already talked about, but I will get in terms of looking at the importance of participating participation of people with disabilities in the process of constitution making, and the essence of making sure that people with disabilities participate in constitution making process is stem from the fact that the proportion of people with disabilities in the community can no longer be underestimated. When we look at the global data, the data suggests that people with disabilities are approximately 16% of the total population, and to these to be relevant to our context, we know that South Sudan has experienced conflict, a lot of effects of climate change and so forth, this means that the rate of disability can even be higher. And when we look at the different types of context, like the challenges that South Sudan has gone through, they also affect people with disabilities disproportionately. Therefore, it is important for people with disabilities to have say in the constitution making process as a gateway for their participation in the peace building process in the country. Okay, and we will also come back to you later on Maota. Only how is the enemies supporting or ensuring that people with disabilities are included in the ongoing constitution making process in the country? Thank you very much, Sunny. First of all, allow me to say that in amiss, of course, we acknowledge that persons with disability have a wealth of knowledge, skills and capacity to offer to a peaceful society. And as Mandela mentioned, the only difference is that they face some distinct challenges in enjoying their rights, including civil and political participation. We consider that their voices and experiences are invaluable in shaping a constitution that upholds the rights and addresses the unique needs of every South Sudanese citizen. As Honorable Maot mentioned, the percentage of the South Sudanese with citizens with disability should not be underestimated. This also follows the spirit of the revitalized agreement, the peace agreement that according to which the process of the permanent constitution making shall be led and owned by the people of South Sudan. The supremacy of the people of South Sudan is one of the guiding principles of the constitution making process according to the peace agreement. According to the current mandate in amiss, we are to support the implementation of the peace agreement. And the specific language to this end is assisting the parties to provide the full equal, meaningful, safe and effective participation of among other groups, marginalized groups in the peace process, including in the constitution making process. So this is why we support the ensuring disability inclusion. Within the political affairs division in amiss, we focus among other things in supporting advocacy and public awareness for inclusive and participatory constitution making process. So to this end, we are working towards strengthening the popular participation in the constitution making process through the participation of key stakeholders in consultation processes, including civic education and other public enlightenment forums considering, of course, equal and inclusive participation of marginalized groups, including persons with disability. We are striving to create diverse forums to promote dialogue on various issues for an effective inclusive and participatory constitution making process, including persons with disabilities, as it is stipulated in the revitalized agreement. Some examples of our work, some examples of the political affairs division work on supporting disability inclusion in the constitution making process. First of all, it's a workshop that we held. We supported on diversity, equity and inclusivity. We did this in June and we had partnered with. So that was in Cuba. Yes, it was here in Cuba and we had partnered at the same time with three organizations, one of which was the Society of Transformation for Equal Rights, Mandela's Organization. And the objective of this workshop was to contribute to building a diverse, equitable and inclusive South Sudanese society by enhancing the active participation of groups such as persons with disability, the youth and women in the permanent constitution process and the electoral process. Okay. Now, Mandela, just the same issue. Why is it very important for people with special needs, people who are facing challenges to be included in this constitution making process because like you have just had, it is very important to embrace the effective, meaningful, participation of persons with disability in our societal transformation. That's what I've just mentioned. Why is it very important for them to be included? Thank you so much. Sonny, before I answer this question, I just want to echo something on the barriers that we talked about. I just want to give an example of barrier. Is the society mindset, the negative thinking, the negative attitude that once you have an impairment, once you have a disability, you are somebody who cannot function at all. Where is it coming from? It is coming from our norms, our certain norms, our beliefs, our cultural beliefs that renders persons with disabilities as people who are, who are beggars, useless, people who are supposed to be depending on other people. And this is a very wrong norm that we need to remove it out because if I, who is not seen, has gone to school, has started, then the rest of South Sudanese with disabilities can also do the same. Number two, I want to talk about the institutional barrier. Our institutions have policies that are very rigid, that does not promote the inclusion of persons with disability. Once you apply as a persons with disabilities, they say, no, we don't have these facilities to accommodate you. And when saying persons with disability do not need accommodation, but they want to, they need participation, they need to participate on equal basis with others. So our societies need to, our institutions need to come with very good policies, policies that promote the rights of persons with disability and rights of everybody. So that he can, he or she can also be able to participate. The other one is physical barriers and environmental barriers. This barriers poses a challenge to persons with disability. For example, our offices, even our own parliament, it's building stairs so that somebody who is moving on a wheelchair cannot be able to access this room. But even if you have given the opportunity, but the environment or the buildings are challenging, you cannot be able to access. Coming to your question, why is it important to include persons with disability in the constitutional making process or in all spheres of life? Persons with disabilities are human beings. That is one thing. And persons with disabilities have all the rights. And each and everyone is born in his or her rights. Nobody takes away this rights. So persons with disabilities should be included on the basis of human rights. And again, we are guided by laws. We have the international covenant on civil and political rights, Article 25, that gives persons with disability the rights to participate in public life. They're supposed to be voting and be voted in, in the different positions. Apart from that, we also have Article 29 of the UN Convention and Rights of Persons with Disabilities, that the government, how the South Sudan has already signed last year. So this instrument, among others, provide us with that right to be able to participate. Again, just like Oli said, very vitalised peace agreement gave back to something called the Consistion Making Process Act. And this Consistion Making Process Act, Chapter 6, states that stakeholders, it talks about stakeholders being, like it talks about the consumer making process being people driven constitution. So I think by saying people driven constitution and persons with disabilities are also the people. So if they say people driven constitution, it does not say it should limit persons with disability from participating. Yeah. But the fact that they talked about people driven constitution means we, South Sudan, is all of us, including persons with disabilities, women, children, and whoever. So that is a gateway for us to be able to participate. Even our Constitution of the transition, the transition of the Republic of South Sudan, 2011 as amended. The Bill of Rights, the Constitution, the Constitution, it talks about that. So these rights are clearly spelled out. But the problem here is this, honey. The problem is the implementation of these rights. Like I said, right now we have mode, mode is sitting at the commission. But mode is just one single person. To me, I counted as a drop in the ocean, a drop in the ocean. So whatever mode might say there, people might tend to ignore that. So we want to say this. If opportunities are being given, persons with disabilities should not be limited to only one person or two people. Yeah. Because I remember in the, when we were doing the nomination, we were doing the selection because the stakeholders were given to select their people. And I remember we submitted three names. And more than three names of persons with disabilities and two were dropped. What does it mean? The negative attitude still prevails. So these are the things that we need to remove that. And I want to appreciate Radio Miraya. I also want to appreciate enemies political division for giving us this platform so that we begin to talk. You know, the issue emanates from the society. Once the society begin to accept the persons with disabilities as part of the society, then things will become a little bit positive because I know that the members of parliament, the ministers and whoever is there in the government comes from a society. If he or she still has that negative attitude, that negative perception, that renders the relegates persons with disabilities from participating, then we can meet a stumbling block. So we need to educate them. We need to understand that persons with disability are equal. They can be able to participate once they're given opportunities. And each and every body has to be given opportunity to prove his or her capability. Thank you so much. All right. And Mahout, you are the only person according to Mandela sitting in the National Constitutional Review Commission. And so far, would you want more of your colleagues coming to join you and advocate for issues affecting people living with disability? And I was satisfied also with some of the things you have read regarding their needs. And what would you be fighting for in this commission since you are alone at the moment? Thank you so much. So in fact, participation in all political processes is a gradual process. So let me just give a little bit of background on the National Constitutional Review Commission. And the National Constitutional Review Commission is one of the technical institutions that has been formed by the revitalized agreement and the subsequent NCRC Act 2022. So this institution is specifically formed to review the national constitution. And I think that in fact, it is the first process that is intended to be inclusive in developing a constitution for South Sudan since 2005. So this is an important progress in the life of the constitutional system and the legal system of the Republic of South Sudan. In terms of participation in the constitution making process, the revitalized agreement provides, and the same also for the National Constitution Review Making Act, provide for representation of the minorities in order to ensure that people with disabilities and the other groups are represented in the constitution making process. And as a result of that, different categories have been represented. For example, when we look at people with disabilities are represented by one member. The business community are represented by one member. The journalists are also represented by one member. The Christian religious group are represented by one member. The Islamic religious group are represented by one member. So as a person who is part of this institution, I will not say that it is a problem. So now, what are you going to be advocating for as you sit representing your community? Wonderful. Actually, what I will be, I will not be advocating. But rather, I will be a breach for ensuring that the opinions of persons with disabilities are taken into consideration because as a member of the constitution making, as the member of the National Constitution Review Commission, our duty is not to advocate for agenda, but rather to ensure that the voices of people of the people of South Sudan are taken into consideration in order to ensure people-centered constitution, people driven constitution making process. And my role will be to ensure that the needs of persons with disabilities to participate in the process are taken into consideration because one myth that is also important to clarify is that as members of the constitution, we are not going to make the constitution. But we will consult with the people of South Sudan in order to get their opinions and ensure that their voices are represented. So being in the commission does not mean that I will be speaking on behalf of people with disabilities, but rather it will be that I will ensure that the voices or people with disabilities are reached through the consultation processes. If there are barriers, those barriers need to be taken into consideration and their voices and opinions reflected. Thank you. Yes, only from your vast experience and has a partner of peace in this country. Why is it very important to include people with disabilities in the promotion of good governance? Thank you very much, Sunny. Actually, I somehow touched upon this a while earlier. Allow me to rate the rate and of course, Mandela and Honorable Mahat. They might share relevant views that there is a big percentage of South Sudanese citizens who have disabilities. So different kinds of impairment. And as any portion of the society, as any group of the society, there is a lot of knowledge, skills and capacity for any society, especially in the process of building a peaceful society. If the challenges that persons with disabilities face in enjoying their rights are overcome, then this input they can bring, this value they can bring can help shape a constitution that upholds their rights and addresses the unique needs of every South Sudanese citizen. As Honorable Mahat mentioned, it's not about just like advocating about something specific. I think that it is time to move away about like the specific groups and just say that what exists for one should exist for all. Like why any different approach? I mean, of course, there are reasons, but persons with disabilities should equally be included as any other South Sudanese citizen in the constitution. And the experience suggests that when diverse groups are empowered to participate meaningfully, not just on paper in processes, they become very invested in the success of a constitution and any governance processes, democratic processes. And this, of course, in the specific context of South Sudan, it can only bring value to the democratic process that the constitution will enshrine, including free and fair elections. Okay. And if you have just joined us right now, you're listening to Democracy in Action. My name is Sani Martin and I have three guests here in the studio, Mandela Isaac, the managing director of society transformation for equal rights. And you have Mahat, Louise, who is a member of the National Constitutional Review Commission. And we have Oli from Amnesty's Political Affairs. She's a political affairs officer working for the United Nations Mission South Sudan. We are discussing this ability inclusion in the constitution making process in South Sudan as stipulated in 2018 in the Vitalize Peace Agreement. If you have got any questions, please, you can call us on 091206079 or 0912177141 is for a text message. Only you can send us a comment there and I will be putting some of them to my guest right here. Hallelujah. Okay. (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) Okay. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) Okay. Yes, Mandela, let's pick the first one. We'll combine it together with the question I was also going to ask you. You had mentioned earlier about the challenges facing people with disability in this country. You gave a very typical example of the way the parliament is designed. It will be very difficult for personnel and wheelchair to access the whole itself. So, more or less like this question from Merida about the issue of raising awareness to advocate for the rights of people with disability. What can the civil society and other NGOs, other partners do to address these challenges? Is it through awareness? Is it through advocacy? What can be done according to Oliver from Merida? (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) and Gasmal and Alelefi radio. Of course, when our program resumes fully, we will be able to reach to you there in the grass root, whether you are in the villages, in the rural areas, in the furthest places in South Sudan, we will be able to reach to you so that we make sure that your voice is important because of course, the new themes of the development goal is leaving no one behind, and reaching the furthest behind first. So that is actually a responsibility that we will take on our part as the people of the National Constitution and Review Commission. The second point is on the existence of a representative of people with Disabilities Fee Commission. Remember, I will call it as a little disability, I will give you the participation. I want to thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for being here, and I would like to thank you very much for being here today, and I would like to thank you very much for being here, and thank you very much for being here, and I would like to thank you very much for being here, and I would like to thank you that I also want to reiterate once again, and clarify is that in the constitution making process, we have several institutions, we have the National Constitution and Constitution Review Commission, and we have the CDC, which is the body that will be drafting the constitution, and we also have different committees that will be dealing with the community at the community level, and at the end of the consultation process, at the end of the constitution review process and public consultation process, there will be a public conference, there will be the constitutional conference where the different opinions will be brought together, and people will deliberate again to validate those opinions, and in the constitution, in the constitutional conference, there will be more than 1,200 people who will be drawn from different parts of South Sudan, and I'm sure in that conference, there will be more representation of people with disabilities who are from different counties and different states. Now, to come to the last part, when we look at the constitution making process, the participation of people with disabilities will be through their involvement, so they will not actually be consulted only, but they will also be part of the entire population, because consulting people with disabilities in isolation from the members of the community is not a healthy process, so making sure that they are consulted together with the members of the public will make them understand what is being discussed by others, because disability is not a factor to exclude people with disabilities, but it should be rather a factor for more inclusion. Thank you. All right, if you have just been asked right now, you can still call us on 091-2069 or 091-2177, 1-4-1 for our SMS. Hello, everybody. 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