Office Hours

Locking in on Marigolds with the Broski’s

This episode we sit down with English Education professor, Naitnaphit, to discuss the language of English. Language is always changing and there are many ways to speak a singular language, but some dialects or ways of speaking are looked down upon because they’re not seen as the “ideal.” We lock in with Naitnaphit to dissect why that is, a serious and informative conversation, while also chatting about how to use trendy slang to keep up with the kids and slay the day.

Broadcast on:: 28 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: other

(upbeat music) - Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to the office hours podcast where we talk all things English and all things CSU. I'm MJ. - I'm Izzy. - And I'm Ollie. - And today we have a special guest. - Nana Bit. - Tell us a little bit about yourself. - Sure, no problem. My name is Nana Bit Limlemai. I am an assistant professor of English education at CSU. I am finishing my fourth semester here. So I moved to Colorado in 2022. So wrapping up my second year. I primarily teach teachers. That is the love of my life besides my partner and my two dogs and our cat and my family and reading. So I have a lot of loves of my life. I'm a former high school English teacher. That's a little fun fact about me. I taught high school English for 13 years. Another fun fact is I think this is my 10th state that I've ever lived in. So I've lived in about 1/5th of all United States. - Wow. - Yeah. - Do you have like a favorite state? - I feel like this question can get controversial. - Yeah, it's okay. You can speak your truth. (laughing) - I really, really enjoyed, I don't know if I enjoy living in Georgia, but I really love living in Atlanta. We spent probably the longest time there besides California where I grew up. We spent about 15 years there. And that was a really, really, that was a great time. I lived there in my 20s. I became, I think I became a real teacher there. And just, it was cool. It was cool seeing a lot of people of color. And it was cool. The food scene is really cool. And the music scene is awesome. And yeah, yeah. So that was a fun place to live. - Okay. Well, we have a couple of questions today. They're mainly English Ed because I don't know if everyone knows, but my concentration is English Ed. So Nana Pit has taught quite a few classes that I've been in. Well, actually, this is the first class. - Just the first class, yeah. - Yeah, I just realized that's a complete lie. (laughing) - It just feels like we have established a-- - Yeah, I have a working relationship with Nana Pit. (laughing) One could say, what has been your favorite class to teach at CSU? - Ooh, that's a hard class. I've actually only taught three classes at CSU. I teach, all right, I have been teaching the methods class, which is not an English class, but an Ed class. And it's only for, I mean, anyone can take it, but it wouldn't make any sense to take it unless you were becoming a Middle or a High School English teacher. And that class is a lot of fun because I think about it as like in a baseball metaphor, the closer. So the picture who's the closer is the last picture and kind of does all of the cleanup, make sure that everyone, like that we're gonna win the game, all that kind of stuff. So that class is very much a, how do I help you put everything together that you've learned throughout your program? So that's a really fun class. I taught the politics of literacy in the fall. It was a grad class and that was really cool because literacy isn't always has been political. And so getting to talk to current and learning teachers, teachers who are learning how to teach about literacy is also really cool. The language actually, that language class might be, if I had to rank them, I might put the English language for teachers at the very top. - Are you just saying that because Izzy and I were in it? - I don't, I think that class does a lot of work in changing people's minds about language. - It really changed my mind just like under, I was having a conversation with my dad actually the other day. He was like, I don't understand how like sentences work 'cause he was like feeling all self conscious about it. And I was like, no, no dad, like you don't, it doesn't matter like just like as long as you can communicate and people understand you, like all of this like vocab that we, in pretentiousness we put on language I was like, does not matter. And like, I did not think that going into your class but coming out of that class, I was like, had a totally different experience with language and just like with understanding it more as a purpose of communication rather than as a high standard or like one standard. - Yeah. And my dad puts together sentences perfectly fine. - Yes, he does, he does. (laughing) - But we make himself conscious about his language. - Right, right. - Yeah, yeah. So that's probably the class in which the most, I see the most growth in learning that students come to me with very strict perceptions of what language is and how we should be quote unquote using language. The should should be in the quotes there. How we should quote unquote should, whatever. Okay. But yeah, and then they come out of that class with totally different conceptions of language. And I do believe there's a linguist, her name is Rosina Lippy Green and she says that language discrimination is one of the last acceptable forms of discrimination. And I really believe that to be true. We very much judge people based on their language and that is steeped in white supremacy and anti-blackness. And if I could help future teachers who are in that class but that class is open to all English majors. So we have a fair number of people who from time to time who aren't English ed majors. People can better understand that and better have confidence about their own language than that's a win, that's a win for me. And, you know, that's a pretty big class. Like there's 28 of us and we're in the stadium. But I think we also are able to form in both is easier section and MJ, your section, a really nice class community. So I like the class community that occurs in that class. And so yeah, if I had to rank them that would be my number one right now. But I'm teaching some new classes next year. And so we'll see where they fall. - Yeah, I like that class because right now the way my sequencing has worked out, I am in like 300 to 400 level classes right now. And so that's an intense vibe that's happening. And so it's nice to come to your class and be like, you just make us all feel very validated and worthy and like, especially, I think that's what the class is kind of designed to do also is like language looks different for everyone. And no matter what way you approach it, there's not a wrong way necessarily. And so that's a nice reminder compared to like my 400 level like literature classes that are like, you're not explaining this to the best of your ability, like very critiqued based on the way you write and speak. - Right, so it feels very, you're supposed, there's a way that maybe that instructor wants you to write. - Yeah, right. - And sometimes it's hard if you don't know a professor to know what they're looking for. - Right, right. Well, that's also like hidden knowledge, right? Like you either have it or you don't and you have to figure it out. And if you don't have it, it does make you feel like you might not belong at the university. - Yeah, and then there's feedback. Like we've talked about this before a little bit on the podcast, but sometimes professors give feedback and I'm like, I don't even know what this feedback means. - Right. - So I don't know how I'm supposed to fix this. - What am I supposed to do with this? - Yeah, so it's just, it is very much like, you're either get it or you don't. - Yeah. - Which is really frustrating. - It is frustrating and it makes you, it feels exclusive, right? Like maybe you don't belong in that space, which is not true. You know, we shouldn't make students feel that way. - Yeah, absolutely. I think coming to college and being in a lot of English classes and reading poetry or writing that is not in like, one of quote, like correct English. - Mm-hmm. - Open myself to examine myself and kind of how I perceive like my language 'cause like growing up, so I'm South Asian and growing up in my household as well as Bongla, I don't think I'm from Bangladesh. And so I also spoke like the English, you know, like the co-switching and all that. And I was always like very ashamed of it. I was like, oh, this is like not, this is weird, you know, but then going and coming to college and learning that there's multiple ways to speak languages and how you kind of like make your own language as well. Like I feel like everyone speaks differently, like with their friends and they do with like, it's like making a language within a language with people that you're close to. Like kind of like inside jokes and like inside joke, like slang, where you can say a word that means something but with your friends or your family means something entirely different. And you're representative of an experience that you guys share together. And like I was learning that. I'm like, I've just been a hater of my own culture this whole time and- - Oh man, wait, some premise. - Exactly, yeah, and then I'm internalized. - Exactly, and I looked into the mirror and I was like, I've just been so hateful of like, I've just been taught that 'cause I thought my entire life how to put in quote, speak English correctly. But language is so diverse and like after learning that, I'm like, it's incredibly beautiful that I can speak to my mom and speak to languages in one sentence and we can understand each other. But it's incredibly powerful that we're learning this and like teaching our teachers to also teach this to our kids, so the next people, next generation, they're not ashamed of your language or their culture. - Right, right, so they can break that cycle because how long I'll need you to take you to figure that out. And that's so like, thank you for sharing that by yourself and that's so heartbreaking that you had to wait 'til you got to college to know you're genius. You know, like to know the genius that comes from being able to communicate across different people and situations in your life, right, yeah. - I think like I kind of started kind of dissecting that like my first semester here at CSU but I really got into it like last year. I was like, why am I so ashamed of my culture and like who I am? And it's fascinating because it's my identity, it's who I am that I pushed it down for so long and finally accepted it and be like, this is who I am and look in the mirror and be like, yeah, my skin color is brown, yeah, I see multiple languages, mom calls me on the phone, she doesn't say high in English, you know, and that's something that I think is really beautiful. - Yeah, yeah. - It took time to get there though. I think it's really cool that we're all like, you know, appreciative that I'm like learning that and again, breaking the cycle of that. - Yeah, absolutely. - Well, we made a really cool documentary about that. Well, it's not directly about that but about South Asian community members in liberal arts and like why that is not something we see as much. And I think some of it has to do with like, they are told they're not good enough to write papers or like public speed. And so a lot of the time I, and correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like a lot of times they're like, told like stay behind the numbers and the research. - Yeah, you're right. - I mean, it is a lot more concrete. Numbers are a lot more concrete often. Yeah, I think someone who really studied numbers might not say that. My brother and I were talking about numbers the other day and he said, you know, so if it's like an invisible number or I don't even know what he said and I was like, wait, stop, an invisible number or like a rational, I don't remember the terminology he was using. He also told me that water is not visible and that my mind broke. - Wait, what does that even mean? - It means we only see refraction of light. You don't actually see water. - Are you still seeing something? - Right, refraction of light. And then I just lost my mind and I was like, wait, do we actually see anything or do we just see light bouncing off of objects? Right, now your mind is blown, right? Similarly to how we do it in the language class. But the idea of their Amy Tan has this really excellent essay in which she writes that as a child, she was not encouraged to go into writing because, you know, I actually don't know if English is her first language or not. But oftentimes as I'm gonna speak for myself as a child of immigrants whose first language is not English, there's always this impression, especially for Asian Americans, that you are a professional foreigner, right? And that you will never be able to speak English in the ways that quote unquote native speakers can speak English. But that's a problematic ideology, you know? And so yeah, even within our communities, there's still a lot of pushback of, no, no, no, I can, I can do something that is arts based or arts related. And my way of seeing the world is actually beneficial to creating this kind of pluralistic society that we have. But yeah, we're taught often that there is one quote unquote correct way to communicate and that's really harmful and damaging to everybody. You know, not just to kids of color who speak multiple languages and dialects. - Okay, switching gears a little bit. Earlier Ollie was talking about how a lot of community is built in creating like your own language with your friends and your family. And I think that part of the reason that the English language for teachers' class is so successful is because of that community we've created. And famously, every Wednesday, Nina Pitt makes us teach her a slang word. - That's true, the use of the youth. - The youth, yeah, the use of today. So I just wanted to know from my own knowledge, what is your favorite slang word that we've taught you so far? - Oh, there have been so many. I should have kind of reviewed the list. So the words are fun to learn, but I think it's also fun, the process by which you teach me. - It's really silly. - Right, it is so silly, especially because-- - It's how people like explain why they use the word word. - They just repeat it with more emphasis. She's like, what's the definition? And they're like, it's this. And they just repeat the word, but with more passion. - Emphasis, right. - Yeah. - And I'm like, no, no, but that's not telling me how I would use it if I wanted. And I will not use them all in real life, right? Like some of them, it would just be ridiculous. Like last week was actually kind of different and that I asked y'all about a word, right? You didn't, so you did, there was some teaching, but I brought it to you versus you bringing it to me. It would be, and the question I asked was, what is the difference between bro and, I said bra, and they were like, we don't say that word. (laughing) - We're at a together name again. - Exactly, what are you doing? - Am I really, do I say bro-ski or what's it, like bru-ski? - Or we said, like beer bru-ski, bro, like-- - We said, it's bro and bruh. - Right, with like a heart. - With like a heartache. - Correct, that's kind of, like a problem. - I also have to ask, like, how do I spell that? 'Cause I'm writing it down on the slides, right? And then they, someone said, wait, are you just saying, bruh, with like a California accent? - Oh my god. (laughing) - I feel like it might be cold. - Right, right, basically, yeah, so I didn't know, but so the process of teaching me words, I think it's hilarious. The one that is, in addition to bro versus bruh, I don't even know if I'm saying that, right? (laughing) One of the first weeks, one of your classmates said, do you know the word lit? And I was like, how old do you think I am? (laughing) Of course I know the word lit. - That's like Genex, I bet. - I know, I know, yeah. The process is of learning new words is really, really fun, especially because when y'all say them to me so that I can write them down on the slides, you don't say them like you were talking with your friends, you have to kind of slow them down, you have to spell them for me, you have to use them in sentences, you have to answer my ridiculous questions about them. And I just love, and I don't, well, okay, when Izzy took the class, there was a slang term that they taught me, and I totally misinterpreted it. And so I was writing comments on students' work trying to use slang, not because I thought I wanted to be cool or anything like that, but I wanted to show like, hey, look at me, using a new word. And the students were like, Nana Pit, that word does not mean what you think it means. - Do you remember the word? - I don't remember at the top of my head, but I thought it meant something like, you're doing great, but it was more sarcastically valenced. And so I was writing this, sarcasm is so hard. So I was writing this comment on their papers, but it really meant the opposite of what I wanted it to mean. So I actually had to go back in and delete all of those and just write my regular words. Like I write word a lot on, y'all know this, and your feedback famously loves word. - I love the word word because it's such a nice affirmation. - And it's like short and simple. - Yes. - To the point. - You hit your benchmark. - Exactly, exactly. You know why I really like writing that I learned last year actually as bars, but I reserved that for like poetic conveyance. - Wow, I've never got a bars. - I know a bars are so rare because you also have to say it in a way. That's just like if you have a, I was just talking to Dan Beachy Quick. We were in this meeting together, right? Yeah, and he had, he was explaining and he had these beautiful metaphors. - He always does. - Really wonderful metaphors, right? Yeah, he's a poet and you can hear that. You can see it. And I wanted to say bars, but I felt it was inappropriate in the conversation. - I think he would love it. I mean, I think he would too. Would he know bars? Yeah, we'd have to. - I don't believe so. But I think he would encourage it. - I think he would too. - He would love to learn. - He really does. Yeah, he really does. - It's positive. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, yeah, he would get, he would appreciate it, right? And he would appreciate the musical connection. So I have always wanted to use bars, but the wording, I've always wanted to use bars, but the wording just hasn't captured kind of that musicality of bars. So maybe next year, I'll use one from this year that I have found really, really helpful, but slay. I mean, I don't feel young enough to use the word slay, but I do like that word. - I think slay is age-less, timeless. - You really? - You don't have. - You don't gotta be any age-less. - Okay. - I say it. - Yeah, that's fine. - I mean, well, I was in our methods class the other day, someone was talking about how they use slay, and the middle schoolers maybe were thinking that they were too old to use the word slay. - Okay, well middle schoolers don't know. (laughing) They literally, anything. - They wanna think that my very trendy ugg boots look like horse hooves, okay? (laughing) So I don't wanna hear me in middle schoolers, we have a beef. I am. - They are the next trend seters. - I am. - They really are. I mean, I think we gotta get middle schoolers more credit. - They keep us humble. - They really do keep us humble. They really do the middle schooler. - Yes. - We should get one on the podcast. - A middle schooler? - A middle schooler? (laughing) - We bad. (laughing) - The questions they asked me at practicum on a day-to-day basis. - Yes. - It's so foul. They're like, they wanna know, yeah, I say foul a lot, but I haven't said that in playing, but maybe I'll say that one. - Okay. - Is that a, is that a? - I don't know if that's like a popular one or if that's just a my language one. - I don't know. I would say it's popular. I don't think I've ever used it, but I feel like I hear it a lot. - You've heard it. - Like people will just say foul. Like, after you say something. - Oh. - There's something around hinged. - Oh, it's like uncomfortable even. - Yeah. - It's like, yeah, it's negative. - Just foul. - For example, CSU parking is foul. - It's foul. - Yeah. - Agreed. - Yeah. - Word. - Yeah. - Word. - Bars even. Dare I say. - I mean, I don't know if I would go so far as to call that bars. It's gotta be like a beautiful, a beautiful metaphor. - One day, if Nana Pit ever writes bars on my work, I will screenshot it and I will frame it and we can post it to the pod Instagram so that everyone knows it's finally happened. - I mean, there's your portfolio. - There's lots of opportunities for the four bars there. - I have been grinding on that one. - I've been locked in. - Locked in. That's another one that I learned this year that I was like, wow, I liked this. - Locked, I used that one all the time. - And that one is really, that one is one of my favorite ones that we learned because that was one of the ones where the, she was like, okay, what does it mean? And they were like, it means you're locked in. (all laughing) And they were like, neither of them was like, what does that mean? - It's really hard to define words. - Yeah, it really is. - You know? Especially when, cause slang is creation, right? We create slang, right? And it's not we, it's a very particular age demographic who creates slang and often that language is policed, right? And so oftentimes that is language and that language comes from, you know, is appropriate from queer communities, from black communities. So, so slang has a lot of different layers to it but it's awesome having y'all try to explain them to me. - I really appreciate it. - But that is the origin of language. I just ate that up in that class. So I was just like, I love talking about origin of language and I love like learning about that especially with like words that we would like commonly use. I was like, whoa, I had no idea like where that came from or like what group that came from or like who's influencing this and then the discrimination towards those minorities when they're like creating our language. You're like, okay, I'm kind of an irony there too. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really reflective of what's happening with language. - Yeah, what advice you have for new teachers or folks thinking about becoming teachers 'cause I've heard a lot of people talk about teaching as like a backup career. And as someone, I know, as someone who wants to be a teacher as my first choice career, no others, that's a really interesting take to me. - Yeah, well, I know one of your questions too was kind of how did you transition between K-12 teaching and teaching at the university level. So I taught K-12 for 13 years in Florida, Georgia and New York. And when I-- - Those are three very different places. - Very different states, very different states, yes. And teaching different students too in each of those different states. - Were they all different age groups as well? - They were all high schoolers, yeah. The kids in Florida just went to a small school and it was very, it's pretty relatively conservative as in Georgia, lots of white children in both of those locations. A lot of students of color in New York, a lot of different cool life experiences in all places. But yeah, and I moved to the university level because I really wanted to teach teachers like that. I love English, but I really, really love teaching. I love thinking about how students learn, how we create conditions for learning, how we create community for learning, how schooling can help us to disrupt cycles of racism and white supremacy. I like thinking about how to teach teachers how to do that. A piece of advice I would give to a new teacher without you asking? - Yeah. - Hmm, this is a hard question because it's been so long since I've been a new teacher, right? Like I started teaching in 2003 and I think I've told this to my methods class before, you know, the world was a very different place. Like our biggest kind of like September 11th had just happened a couple of years previous. We were at war with Iraq, W was president and like as stressed as we were about that world, it's not this world, right? And this world I think has so many other stressors that pre-service teachers and teachers have to pay attention to. And I won't list them here because I don't want us to spiral into that, into that hellscape. But I think one big piece of advice, I have one piece of advice for you looking at students and one piece of advice for you looking at yourself. The advice for you looking at students is that students are sense-makers, that they are, that they look at the world in ways that make sense to them. And the most that we could tap into the ways in which they are sense-makers and use that knowledge to co-construct our spaces with them, not just our spaces, but their learning. I think helps make teaching. I don't know if I would say easier because sometimes when they let you into their lives, you learn things about them that are, that's heartbreaking, but it makes it more fun, I think, because then we're all co-constructing. It's not just I have the teacher with all the knowledge that I'm pouring into you, but we're creating this world together. So I love teaching because of that. So seeing teaching as an act of world-making is a piece of advice I would give and how to do that would be to see students as sense-makers. The internal advice that I would give yourself is, I don't know if advice is the right word for it, but to see every day as an opportunity for learning. Part of why I became a teacher is because I love learning, I love learning new things, and I love interacting with the youths, not just because they teach me the slang, but yeah, I think teaching is a good opportunity to learn. So in what, like the many different ways we can learn by reading, by listening to podcasts, by watching films and, or who says films, by watching movies, you know, TV shows, whatever, like always look at it as an opportunity for learning and to have a really nice group of teacher friends that can support you. We call them marigolds in the profession because marigolds are flowers that help other things grow. And so trying to find your marigolds, find people who will help you grow. - You're teaching a slang right now. - I don't know if that's a slang. - Sure, teacher slang, teacher jargon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and be a marigold. You know, like be a marigold for other people, like help them grow, help them flourish. Yeah, again, shout out to Dan, but he just said the phrase I'm sticking with is mutual flourishing. And I like that. Like in what ways can we help each other flourish and be our whole wonderful selves? - Yeah, like not keep keeping teaching and just really making it a community effort rather than mutual equity. - Yeah, I think that's how we're gonna survive this hellscape is with each other. - Well, thank you so much for being on the pod. I feel like we've learned a lot and I really appreciate your lived experience and all the knowledge you had to share. - Yeah, can I ask you one question? - Yeah. - Okay, so I actually wanna hear from all of you in terms of the advice. Like, so what advice? 'Cause y'all are upperclassmen now, right? What advice would you give your younger self? - I think, don't be so hard on yourself. Like, girl relax. (both laughing) Because my, I came from a college prep high school and quote unquote college prep. Yeah, whatever that means. And so it was like, you have to be the best. You have to do this. You have to do that. And with peace and love, CSU is an 80% acceptance college, which is fine and a really good environment for me. And freshman year, I was doing the most at all times. And I think that is not, well, I quickly learned that that was not a sustainable practice. - I think my advice coming in would be just like, enjoy each moment as it is. I think sometimes we rush through college or we rush through some of our experiences and like, I'm graduating into it. (laughing) - Ah, congratulations. - And yeah, I just, I think slowing down sometimes is good. Not putting kind of, like MJ said, the pressure on yourself, letting yourself know that you are doing a good job. But yeah, enjoying the people and what your school has to offer. CSU has so much to offer. It's overwhelming sometimes. You're like, so yeah, just slowing down and enjoying your classes because you're not gonna be in them. (laughing) - Forever, forever. - Even though I'd really like to be, right? And some of them I feel like that, right? Interminable. - Yes, 'cause you're like, oh my gosh. I, you know, it's like day in, day out, showing up in a class. But like, you know, you only get four years of that where you're just hanging out with your friends and learning things you wanna learn. - Yeah, yeah, I guess for me, I would tell myself that perfection is subjective, not objective, and being okay with failing and emphasize failing, like fail a lot. (laughing) I had a struggle with that, but then I kind of got over it and then I started failing a lot and I started succeeding a lot, I think. Doing that, and then there's a phrase that I've just like been obsessed with recently, which is like, it takes a village to raise a child and then realize in recently that it takes a village to also just be human and to get through every day life and just knowing that like nothing you do is like worth it if you can't share it with the people around you, like any accomplishment, any achievement. It's so much more meaningful and impactful if you can get up on the stage, accept your award and like look into the audience and see the people that love you that have been there to support you. So just community and perfection is subjective, right? Yeah, that's about it for this episode. And Anapit, thank you so much. - Thank you for all. - And you gotta say, bars all around. (laughing) Yes, Ollie, yes, we got it. (laughing) - Thank you guys for listening to the English podcast and we'll tune in next time. - Bye. (upbeat music) (gentle music) (gentle music)