Beyond the Body
EP141: Life After Binge Eating (Insights for Recovery)
Binge eating is no joke, and overcoming it? It’s not a quick fix! Christina sits down with Ramzia to get real about their own journeys with binge eating—their experiences with binge eating and what it took for them to truly break free from the cycle of binge eating.
They also share tips for anyone stuck in a cycle of binge eating and tell that recovery isn’t a quick fix, and it’s not a straight line. But with the right tools and mindset, it is possible!
In this episode, they discuss:
- Christina and Ramzia’s struggle with binge eating and their journey to overcoming it
- Ramzia’s story of restricting her food intake all day and then bingeing at night because her body was starving
- Christina’s challenge with feeling a lack of control during binge eating
- Emotional and physical triggers that led to their binge eating
- The binge-restrict cycle and why binge eating recovery is not a straight path
- The importance of being able to separate actions and emotions when it comes to food
- Intuitive eating and why it is not the solution for people recovering from binge eating
- Tips for overcoming binge eating
Memorable Quotes:
“It’s not the restriction, it’s not the mental and emotional aspect of it, but it’s like, I just don’t want to feel bloated tonight, so I’d rather have this.”
“Instead of focusing on what you did wrong and what you don’t want to do again, focus on what you can do better next time and what an ideal situation would look like.”
“When you have the right protocols in place, and you have the right support in place, and you have a community or coaches or mentors that have gone through binge eating and have coached other people through it, you’re not alone in it.”
Links Mentioned:
Get the Mind & Body Breakthru Free Workbook: https://www.cutandconquerfitness.com/mind-body-breakthru
Christina’s Instagram: @knifina
Cut & Conquer Instagram: @cutandconquerfitness
Ramzia's Instagram: @fitwramzia
Coaching Application: https://cutandconquer.typeform.com/CQA-application
Free FB Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/weightsandwellness/
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
- Broadcast on:
- 29 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
Welcome to Beyond the Body, a podcast for women who aren't afraid to dive deep into who they are, embrace discomfort, and level up their mind, body, and life. I'm your host, Christina Slater. If you've ever struggled with body image, self-worth, or knowing how to take your fitness to the next level, you have come to the right place. We go deeper than just the latest bad diet or trending workout to provide you with the mindset tools to transform your body, upgrade your mind, and reclaim your life. Let's get into it. Hello, you guys. Welcome back to Beyond the Body. I'm your host, Christina Slater, and today I'm joined by my lovely co-host, Ransia. Hello, everyone. So, today we are going to be kind of diving into the emotional side of binge eating with a particular focus on what has changed most for us, having now really overcome binge eating. And we also want to share with you guys kind of like what it took for us to get to the place we're in now, because it wasn't just a quick fix. It wasn't a straight linear line or a linear process to get here. We're also going to kind of explore, in general, how our mindset towards food can kind of either push us forward or hold us back in so many ways. We're going to explore the importance of being able to kind of separate actions and emotions when it comes to food specifically, and we'll also touch on intuitive eating, which is kind of a hot topic lately, a little bit controversial. And why intuitive eating is not always the answer, especially when it comes to binge eating. It's really glorified, "Oh, just intuitive eat, just listening to your hunger cues." But in my experience, as a binge eater and as a coach, and literally working with hundreds of women who are also overcoming their emotional connection to food, intuitive eating is not always really constructive, especially at the beginning. And we're going to kind of talk about what you can do instead. So, interestingly enough, my motivation for wanting to do this topic. Now, you guys know I'm really passionate about binge eating, in general, like that topic and sharing knowledge on it. But obviously, Ramsay and I kind of share this experience in our journey. And Ramsay, I had this moment the other day, and I wanted to tell you on the podcast, and I actually had the idea for this podcast a couple of months ago, when I had this thought in my brain, that I didn't tell you, because I wanted to tell you live. So, "Oh my God, tell me." Yeah, it was cool. And for anyone who has struggled with binge eating, this will resonate. Even if you haven't had this thought, it will relate. And it was super cool, because I have not had this precise experience ever in my life. And this did happen to me in the summer. I think it was in the time it sounds crazy, that I think it was like in July, like maybe the end of July, this thought entered my brain. And you guys have probably listened to the other podcasts that talk more about the tactical strategy and even the kind of psychology behind binge eating and behavior change around food. And you guys will know that even though I kind of overcame binge eating a few years ago, after my show in 2023, the urges did pop up. And I did actually really feel equipped to navigate those very effectively. However, they did pop up. What was this super cool? What happened to me? In July, I don't even remember precisely the setting, but it was night time, because that was when I would binge. And Brendan was on night, so I was like alone, another thing that would usually be in there in the mix. And I had something going on. It wasn't necessarily an emotional reaction, but it was something going on in my day in my life, where normally the old version of me would have just been in the pantry, standing there, shoving food in my face. And it was so strange, because it was almost like physically my body was like, why aren't you doing that? Like, this is the perfect setting, my body, like not my body, not my mind, my body was like, like, you know, muscle memory? Yes. It was like telling me to get up and go to the pantry. And my mind was like, there is no urge there. My mind was like, oh, you have zero urge to eat right now. Like, you are so not hungry, and you are so okay with not being hungry. Why is your body telling you to get up and go find food? Wow. That was a really cool event, because that was the moment where I truly actually felt like healed, like, quote unquote, field. I was like, wow, because it is awesome, though. Yeah. So I was just, I was curious, like, anyone listening? If you guys have had that experience ever, I wrapped, I want to hear your thoughts. But like, for me, that was new. Because even though for the last three years, I really haven't binged, I just don't have those urges. And I've had to, like, actively use strategies to overcome it. I didn't anymore. Yeah, because usually it's like the opposite, right, where your brain is like, is needs the comfort and your thoughts, you're having all these thoughts that are saying, like, okay, like, go get something. But instead, it was like the opposite, which is freaking crazy. That's awesome, though. Like that's like, yeah, you should feel so good about that. Yeah. I mean, that's the end goal, I suppose, right? Yeah. Anyways, let's get into it a little more. But Ramsey, I know you've shared on the podcast about your experience. But for those of you who are listening, because maybe new to the show or haven't listened to the previous episodes, can you tell us a little bit about just quickly your past with binging and also kind of what the recovery looked like for you? Because I do think that's something that's a little bit different from you to me. Yes. So binge eating started for me. Well, I started getting the triggers to binge eat. I think before it was emotionally, because I was restricting so much. Like, I was trying everything to lose weight. And I just kept thinking like, you know, the less I eat, the better. And I was doing like all this, this extreme cardio, like working so hard and just depriving my body of all this food. And I got to a point where my body was starving. And that's how the binging started, because I would restrict like all throughout the day. And then I would get the urge at night, like I couldn't resist it anymore. I couldn't like hold myself back. So I would binge at night, because I was my body was hungry. And that honestly went on for months, like months on end, it was the constant binge restrict cycle. And then the emotion started kicking in, because then you start feeling the guilt and the regret and the shame. And then even when, and I felt obviously it felt so good, like eating all of that food and just like not thinking about anything. So then I started tying the emotions into it. And brain almost. Yeah. And so then when any like any inconvenience or struggle, challenge, whatever was happening in my life, whether it was just school, or you know, even procrastination too. And actually, I don't know, I can't remember if that was the thing for you too. But I also, whenever I was like procrastinating, I would go and eat. But anyway, so yeah, then I started to try to emotionally like regulate myself with food. And honestly, the whole like binge restrict cycle, I want to say happened for. And again, like it's different for everybody. There's no like timeline. There's no specific timeline for anyone. But I think for me, it lasted about like a year and a half, two years. And then the recovery. I would say the recovery. And I'm actually really grateful for this. I recovered within, I want to say half a year. So it was like six, yeah, it was like six months. Still a challenge though, like I was still getting the urges, but I want to say I like stopped binging completely after like six to eight months. But that doesn't mean I was like completely healed. It was just like the binges that were kind of that slowed down. Yeah. Totally. And I love that you said, you know, there's there's no timeline because yes, timelines can be helpful. Like we were chatting with this in regards to our own life and clients as well recently about timelines that it's like, timelines can be really helpful because it gives you like a little bit of pressure to get something done. The way humans work is like, if you have 15 days to clean your house, it's probably going to take you 15 days. But if you only have two days, you know, you have to get it done. So there's a value in timelines. But I think that the drawback of trying to put a timeline on something is that you start comparing yourself and start kind of tearing yourself apart. And like we talked about at the very beginning, especially when it comes to binge eating and emotional eating, it's not a linear process. So if you know, you don't even in six months, you feel like, Oh my gosh, I failed. And a lot of people, not everyone, but a lot of people who struggled with eating disorders or even like perfectionistic tendencies, right? We're so like, like, high achieving people, right? It can add just more and more and more and more pressure. And then the feeling of failing on top of that is just like, almost too much. And then you go right back to the behavior that you're trying to fix in the first place. And it becomes like a double edged sword, right? Yeah. Another thing that I think is worth bringing up is, I know you mentioned procrastination. That was applicable for me too. Sometimes I would eat out of boredom, but it wasn't usually like a binge that I would do. It was more just like mindless eating out of boredom. But I would be like actively binging. And I think this is super relatable, because clients have told me almost as exact words, it's almost like your brain is in like a trance. Like, yes, you're just like, like not there. And like, you know, you know logically that like, you shouldn't be doing this. You know logically that you're not even hungry. You know logically that this is completely sabotaging your goals and everything that you're working towards. But like, you're almost in a trance. But for people like us, Ramsey, I think this is maybe why we share this and we understand each other so well. And this aspect is like, our brains are going all the time. And my brain has been like, my whole life. Like, I can't shut off my brain. It used to be more like overthinking. But now it's more just like, I'm constantly doing stuff. I'm constantly learning. Like, there's so much happening. And it's like, sometimes food can like just give you that like, like a drink, chaos out of your mind for a second, because it just shut off. And it's all that feeling that you're addicted to, because yes, anyone who's binge knows it's not about the physical hunger, because if it were about the physical hunger, you would eat an apple and you'd be good. Oh my, and it that's so funny that you said that because I was literally going to bring up addiction. And that was the same for me. Like, you're literally, you're not in control. Like, when you are actively bingeing, or at least for me, like, I did not feel in control of myself. No, because you're telling yourself, like, you should stop this. Like, in the back of the end, it's like, you know that it's not helping. Yeah, you feel literally like you cannot stop. Yeah, even though we're not even hungry, most of the time, your body might be like, like, you, I know, in your case, you were under eating, and your body was fully nourished. So yes, there is the physiological component there for sure, where your body is literally craving nutrients. But for me, I did binge, even when I was eating enough food, and when I was eating proper amounts of protein, and when I was eating enough nutrients, because like, for me, a lot of time, it wasn't, it wasn't so much I was under eating or like, malnourishing. I was literally, like, it was an emotional, like, turn off switch for me. Yeah, no, it definitely, like, I got to that point as well. Like, after I stopped restricting so much, and I did try to, like, you know, fuel my body throughout the day, and, you know, try to eat enough throughout the day, which I mean, now that I look back, I probably still wasn't, but I was eating more throughout the day, and I would still fund myself binging at night. Yes. Yeah. Okay, I'm so glad you brought that up, because I've talked to so many women too, who are in that situation, where, and this was me actually, you feel terrified to eat enough, because you feel like you're going to binge anyways. So it's like, well, I know I'm under eating, but at least then I'm not going to get extra fat, because like, I don't trust myself, and I'm probably going to binge tonight, even though I said last time was my last binge, and I wasn't going to do it again. But, you know, if I do, well, it's going to happen whether I eat enough or I don't, so I might as well under eat, so I don't get fat, but that's really what my brain would tell me. Yep. To save the calories. Yeah. And like, think about like, how draining that is. Like, how draining, like, how, like, and I'm sure we'll talk about, you know, more, like, more about life after binge eating, but like, just thinking back to like, going through that, like, it was so draining, like all your, your mind was just, I mean, at least for me, it was caught, I was constantly thinking about food. Yep. Yep. Yep. And I mean, to be honest, I still think about food a lot. I just, okay. Food differently. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I was going to get into that as well. Like, obviously, we do have to think about food on a day to day basis, you know, what we're going to make, where we're going to have to cook and, you know, grocery shop, what foods do we need? Like, of course, we need to think about food in that way, and like, planning and meal prepping. But that's, like, I feel good with that now. Like, that's how I feel like everyone should be thinking about food. More that, like, toxic, you know, I can't eat this. When can I eat the next thing? If I eat this, what's going to happen? How's this going to affect my body? And like, it's still okay to think about how food will affect your body. I do that regularly still, but it's just a different frame of mind. And we're going to touch on that a little bit more. So an interesting difference, and we realized this the other day when we were talking about your binge eating journey versus mine is, you know, mine was not like, I would say I had, like, relapses for lack of a better term, like many, many times over many, many years. So it was like, I remember even as a kid, and I don't think as a kid, it was so much of an emotional driver, like, I can't even remember why it would happen. But like, there were times when I was a kid, where I would just like go into the pantry and eat like 15 granola bars. Like, I don't know why I would do it. Like, I don't think that's like quote unquote normal behavior for kids. Like, our kids don't do that that I know of. Like, you know what I mean? I were going to the pantry and just eating as much as I could as quickly as I could for as long as I could for no reason. I don't know why I would do it. I can't remember. I was probably in the experience I don't know. And then as a teenager, I was like, I was an athlete. So even though I still had a bit of the binging or stroke tendencies, I was like so obsessed with my sport and swimming that performance was like my main thing. So when I did overeat, like, you know, it didn't affect me so much because I was training like four hours a day. So when you're doing four hours of cardio a day, it's pretty hard to overeat, realistically. And for me, I would not usually binge junk food, which is interesting. I would just binge on food, binge on anything. When I was in university, however, I would binge on junk food. But I mean, it was it was also just anything like it. It was usually in numbers for some reason. But yeah. Yeah, so my worst years were probably between 2013 and 2015. And that's when I was in university. I think I just had it was so much stress, so much stuff to deal with in my own head with my own life and everything. And I didn't have nearly as enough knowledge then on what to do and navigate that. And then, but 2013, 2015, I was bingeing like every day to every week and overeat, rising to compensate like crazy. Yes. Yeah. And then I started to get more serious about fitness in 2015. And then I competed in 2016. And during that time that I had like my first coach, I didn't really binge much because I was like, Oh, I love this. This is so cool. My body is changing. I'm who balanced way or whatever. And after my show, like after all of my shows, I've always reversed dieted, I did binge a few times between my two shows, like in 2017, competed again in 2017, 2018, I went back to visiting like fully. It was 2019. I did a hardcore cut at the end of 2019. That was the last time I cut before my show in 2023. And I didn't reverse diet. I don't know why I didn't. I just didn't. I had the knowledge to. I just was like, I reversed dieted. All after all my other cuts, I'm going to try not doing it like stupid, stupid. I was just like, I'm not going to do it. But I also was kind of in my own head anticipating going back into a cut right away. But then it happened. And everyone freaked out and the gym's all closed. And I was like, Oh my God, now I gained back this 15 pounds and now I can't work out whatever, whatever. But then 2020, when that happened, and I got like laid off from my job on site and whatnot, like I that was when I really like did like a bunch of personal development work. And like that for me was like the beginning of like actually getting better. Wow, that's interesting. Because I remember you like telling me that, but I guess like I didn't know in depth. But isn't it like, isn't it interesting like how our brain works? And like you went through periods of time where like you're, you were able to stop and you were able to, you know, stick to whatever you were doing and not binge. But then your brain would kind of like switch and pick up like the old habits again. Yeah. And I feel like that's a lot. Like a lot of people struggle with that, right? Like falling into old habits and old behaviors. So I feel like that's exactly like what was happening to you. So yeah, one really relevant thing that I want to talk about and I want to hear about your experience specifically is because what helped me and as everyone knows, I'm a little bit strange. So like I don't think that this necessarily is going to help a lot of people. But for anyone who maybe has a similar personality to me, which probably isn't that many people, but I want to talk about a unique situation. What I'm talking about around here is when we were talking about tracking food and scale and numbers and stuff. So what's about your experience? Because I do think yours is going to be more relatable for everyone in terms of, you know, the scale and the obsession with all of that. Yes. Yeah. So I was like super obsessed with the numbers and with my weight, like, you know, I was on the scale every day, you know, tracking it every day, seeing my weight fluctuate, you know, binging the night before and then stepping on the scale and seeing it go up and be like, break and then like, you know, restricting again the whole day. And then also obviously tracking my food and really wanting to stick to the deficit, sticking to my calorie deficit because I knew I had to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight and lose the body fat. So I also was obsessed with like knowing how much I was burning each day. And, you know, we have like, I have an Apple Watch 2 and I still use it, but now I'm a lot better with it. And I know that it's not like 100% accurate and whatever, like, I'm not obsessed with how much I'm burning every day. But I was and I wanted to like stick to the numbers. Like, if I was burning, like, I don't know, I'm just putting numbers out there. But like, if I was burning like 1900 calories per day, and that's like with exercise and whatever, then I was like, okay, I have to, you know, I have to stick to like 1200 calories. And like, I was so obsessed with numbers. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, what is interesting is even though I was kind of obsessed with the scale, like you said around you, actually weighing myself regularly, strangely enough really helped me. I think it was because it allowed me to kind of desensitize to that number, because I would get so hung up on that number. But then I wouldn't get on the scale again for like a week or 10 days, and then not understanding, you know, you can do everything right and your weight can still go up and down. You can do everything wrong, and your weight can go up and down, right? So like, actually seeing the data and like, at the beginning, it was challenging, because I would see the number go up. And like, every part of me would want to like sabotage myself and like, never get on the scale again or like, you know, and I think actually just forcing myself to get on it again and be like, okay, look, it's fine. Your weight went back down. Like, it's okay. Food goes in your stomach. Obviously it's in there, like it's going to reflect on the scale. Even if it's healthy food, if you eat it, it's going to reflect on the scale. Actually weighing myself every single day, and I know that that sounds obsessive. And I know that we don't typically tell our clients to weigh themselves every day. However, I have had a few that I do that with. But, you know, for me, it really helped get over the unemotional connection to the scale, because all I would see was like, the actual data. And then I could see it as like, this is just a number. It really doesn't mean anything, because I can follow everything perfectly. The number might still go up some days, you know. And if you happen to weigh yourself on the heaviest day of the month, because, you know, you did binge, maybe your hormones are causing some water retention, and you did eat a little bit more carbs, or maybe you accidentally manipulated your sodium intake, your weight could be up five pounds, and it is so not an accurate measure. Yeah, that really helps me. And then with actually tracking my macros and being obsessive about like my input and my output, it also helps me, because it gave me like a really logical, like objective sense of what I was doing. So I couldn't be like, Oh my God, I'm eating so little, and I'm still gaining weight, because I knew exactly, exactly what I was eating. And ironically enough, the outcome was pretty much exactly how it should be. So for me, I would get really in my head, because I'd be like, I'm doing everything right. But I was just quote unquote, eating healthy, right? Or when I would binge, I would just like beat myself up, but I really wouldn't have binged like as much as I thought I did. So actually, being obsessive about the numbers helped me. So interesting is really, really different. Yeah, yeah, totally. And it's really just like getting the knowledge and education on it, because I didn't understand like the scales limitations at that point when I was like so obsessed with it. Until I actually stopped weighing myself, I just realized like, you know what, I need to just stop being obsessed with it and, you know, seeing the fluctuations, even though I didn't really understand, I just thought like, you know, the binging was like, messing me up. I mean, obviously did have an impact. But anyway, so I until I stopped weighing myself, then that's when I was like, you know, found out more like fluctuations and like why they actually happen. And you know, being a woman too, and dealing with hormones and like you were saying the water retention literally, everything like chugging water and then going to step on the scale, like obviously it's going to be up compared to like what it was before. So, and it's being like aware of it. It's just being aware of it that can help you. Like if you are more like me, it's actually like before you step on it, like tell yourself like, okay, it might fluctuate and that's okay. Because for whatever reason, you know, fluctuations happen. So yeah, understanding the scales limitations. Yeah, exactly. And it's so interesting that, you know, for you, it was staying off the scale. And for me, it was going on the scale more. Yeah. So again, it just goes to show, I do feel like most people benefit more from staying off the scale. But if you're someone who's staying off the scale, and it's not helping you try weighing yourself more, weighing yourself more has this terrible connotation attached to it. There's nothing wrong with weighing yourself every day, just because people don't do it doesn't mean it's wrong to be, you know, try it. You don't have to keep doing it. But you know, if if not being on the scale hasn't helped you, maybe you're like me. Yeah, yeah. And like, try to, you know, get a better understanding and like like you did too, like you saw it like objectively, like from an objective standpoint, like literally this is what is actually happening like physiologically, you know, with my body. So you can view like view of it that way. But and if you're more like me, I guess, you know, more like emotionally attached to the scale and like not really viewing it in like the physiological way. Yeah, I just had to like take a break for a bit to get that understanding. But yeah, everyone's different. Another interesting thing to go back to is how we talked about, you know, binge eating isn't usually out of physical hunger, right? And I think that that, even though we might know that, I think there's like a big misconception out there where it's like, Oh, I binge, I just need to get on a diet or I just need to do a certain program. And although at Cotton Conker, like we specialize in this, but I would be totally lying to you if I said like, just cleaning up your eating is enough to overcome this. It is a huge help, a huge help, because it was for so many reasons. And again, I won't go into it because it is covered in, I think it's episode 118 and 119. But one of the problems with just changing the food you're eating and not changing, you know, the internal side of what's going on and not changing your thoughts, like go with it and not changing your perspective on food. You know, yes, you're might be dialed in for the eight weeks that you're doing a program. And like, that is great. And yes, you're probably going to see results, obviously. But you know, we talked about the same called, you know, like, B do have, and the order of doing that, you have to be the thing, be the person first, and then do the thing, and then you have the outcome. So if you're just going on the diet, you're just doing the thing, you haven't actually changed who you're being. Right. You know, cleaning up your diet and getting a predictable eating schedule and eating clean, it's going to help. It is definitely going to help you and it's going to give your mind, you know, a sense of safety so that you can kind of step outside of that. But if you don't actually dig in and do the internal work alongside of it, it's not going to change long term. You're going to go back to those tendencies. That's why for me, like, when I say like, I had like, relapse after relapse, like, even after I competed, I was like really lean in 20, 26 or 2016, really lean in 2017. Like, I didn't, I just changed the actions I was doing. I just went strict on a diet. I didn't actually change how I looked at food or the, you know, deep seated patterns that I had around food and the belief that I had around food. So none of that changed until I was, you know, ready and willing to actually change certain things about my identity and my emotions and, you know, all of that in regards to how I approach food. Yeah, exactly. Like, it really comes down to fixing those deep rooted issues, because like you were saying, you know, going, you're going to fall back into those tendencies again. Like, when those situations come up again, or, you know, when those triggers or when those challenges come up, like how, you know, your brain's going to go back to what it's comfortable doing. So if you don't actually like work on, you know, expressing those feelings, if it is something like emotional, you know, it is a specific obstacle or struggle. Like, if you don't practice embracing it or, you know, trying another like an alternative way to like deal with it and cope with it, then yeah, those habits won't break. Unfortunately. Or they will come back when, you know, life gets crazy and chaotic, because it's so easy to do good when life is good, you know, you got no options or there's no emotional turmoil going on in your life. It's like, oh, like, this is so easy. But then when those obstacles pop up, no matter what it is, if it's relationship issues, if it's your kid being sick, if it's craziness at work, that is really when this stuff counts. Like, that's the test, right? It's not that hard to do well when life is smooth, failing. Exactly. That is where the true challenge is. And you have to be willing to make the change. Like, and if you are, you know, ready, like, if you are in this right now and dealing with like binge eating and emotional eating, like you have to realize like, okay, am I ready to end this cycle? Am I ready to break this cycle and really challenge your past self? Yeah, during those times, you know, like Ramsey has said, life is all is going to be busy. Like, you could, and I hate to use the word excuse, but it's true. You could use any excuse in the book, asking why now is not the best time. There's endless reasons that are so valid. They're valid, right? September is busy because kids go back to school. I'll wait till next month. Well, this month, it's Halloween and I'm going to eat some Halloween candy. So I'll wait till next month while November this, whatever, like, you know, there's always going to be reasons why you shouldn't do things because we're afraid. And I get that it's literally so valid. And sometimes, you know, you can validate that, you know, you're on a trip. Does it make sense right now? I don't know. But you're going to have trips in the future. Are you going to want to, you know, sabotage yourself every time you go on a trip? Because you've never worked through this on a trip, right? I mean, most people want to go on trips. If you have kids, your kids are going to get sick again. Like, it is going to happen. Christmas, I guarantee you Christmas will happen this year. It's going to happen next year and the year after. So if you're not willing to start around Christmas, are you never going to have Christmas again in your life? And if you do, are you ready to just accept sabotage during the holiday season? Like, oh, man, yeah, best time to start. Literally better to start during the challenging times because it feels really easy when things slow down. Yep. Exactly. You literally hit the nail on the head. Let's talk a little bit about labeling foods as like good and bad. Now, the thing is, there are food that are more ideal for you at certain points than others. Depending on your goal, depending on your life, mainly depending on your goals, you know, you could argue that, you know, spaghetti squash could be better for you than pasta if you were trying to lose weight. You could definitely present that case. You could also present the alternative and there could, there's definitely evidence to say that no, actually pasta is better than spaghetti squash if you're on a cut in select cases, right? Yeah. There is no good or bad food. You want to make the best choice for you, given the circumstances, given what you're looking to achieve, you know, overall clean foods, whole foods, foods that are not processed, foods that do not have additives, foods that do not have added sugars and added things and trans fats. They're likely a better choice. Like, it's pretty hard to argue against that, but yeah, that cake is inherently bad or fattening. No, it's in the amount, it's in the regularity that you're consuming those foods, and it's in how you respond to yourself consuming those foods that cause all of these problems. Yeah. And that, and I really like that you brought this up because this was huge for me, part of my healing process, reintroducing and like, because for me, like I was binging on the foods that I would restrict. Yeah. And so, so like it was a lot of like crackers, chips, like that sort of things, like even like desserts to like cake was a big one. So I had to just allow myself to have a portion, have a single serving of it and truly be in the moment and be intentional and enjoy that, you know, whatever it is, whatever that food is, and then just carry on with your day, like continue to eat the eat your next meal, eat the next meal that you prepped, you know, have breakfast the next day, because that was always me like, oh, I had this tonight. Okay. So skip breakfast tomorrow. And it truly is possible to include these, I guess we could call them like fun foods, you know, into your daily nutrition or, you know, weekly nutrition and still make progress and still make progress. And that was a huge realization for me this year when I did my cut. And I was able to have, you know, birthday, like birthday, I had birthdays and I had, I went to have cake and I had dinner. There were a few dinners here and there, and I still made so much progress. I still lost the body fat. And that just goes to show that it's so possible. Yeah. Yeah. And I actually remember like you talking about that during your cut last year, like, Oh my gosh, like I had dinner with my family or like with friends and, you know, I didn't go off the deep end and like, I'm still losing weight and I'm still feeling better and my strength is still good in the gym. And yeah, it's, it's, for me, it is so much the perspective on food and the feelings that you have around food. And I would feel really guilty when I would eat bad food, really, really, really guilty. And I would feel like, I had to eat like healthy food, like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, like the only right thing to do. Now, the way that I have reframed this, and this has probably been one of the biggest things for me, is like, part of it is just like being okay with choosing or not choosing a different food. And it's not that I'm, I don't even think about it in the food. It's like, if I decide that I'm not going to eat cake, I don't feel restricted or bad about that decision. I feel like I'm choosing, I'm choosing to not feel bloated from eating the cake. I'm choosing not feel a sugar crash from the cake. I'm choosing to consume something that is lower calories than the cake, especially if I'm cutting on the flip side, even if I'm not cutting and I need more calories, it's like, I'm actually going to choose, you know, potatoes and beef, because I can eat more of that. And I actually feel better eating that than I do eating the cake. Yeah, and I don't feel the pull towards the cake. Like, I would in the past, because I'm focusing on the benefits of the foods that I am choosing, not on the restriction of the food that I'm not choosing. And it's not that I'm not on that food. I'm giving myself the freedom to choose differently. Yes, it's like understanding how your body, like how you are physically going to feel afterwards. And it's not like the, yeah, like you were saying, it's not the restriction, it's not like the mental, like emotional aspect of it. But it's literally just like, I just like don't want to feel bloated tonight. So I'd rather have this. Yeah, yeah, I totally feel that. So if you are saying no to dessert, you're saying yes to discipline, you're saying yes to more nutrients. And again, a big thing I think as well is just a habit, like in our like North American culture, it's such a habit to like be expected to eat dessert, or such a habit to eat chips when you're watching TV. Like, just like if you like for me, I just had to kind of say like, fuck you to society. It was like, y'all eat dessert? Fuck that. I don't have to. Yeah, right? Like, you know what I mean? It sounds silly. It's really empowering. Yes, I'm going to break the habit, because a lot of it is a habit, you're just used to doing it and breaking any habit is difficult, even if it's not about food. But you know, focus on what you gain from those choices. And when you have when you feel the power and you have that evidence, that actual evidence that like you can choose differently successfully, then you know, you feel so much better when you do choose to eat the cake, because you're like, Oh, like, I'm not controlled by this cake. I'm actually choosing to eat it purposely. Exactly. I'm not choosing an obligation. I'm not choosing it because I feel like I can't not have it. I'm actively choosing to eat it. Yeah. Yeah, it's all it's literally all in your mindset. Like, we know mindset is freaking like, my dad is literally everything in anything in life. And that's that's literally what it is. It's just your thoughts around food. And the biggest thing to remember with both of these options is that it takes practice. And it does take time. And you're going to have to practice both. Like, I would obviously recommend practicing both and staying consistent with it. And then that's where you'll kind of feel a new relationship with food, because you're viewing it in a different way. And then your thoughts aren't so consumed about food in that negative, like toxic way. So I do want to switch gears a little bit and talk about intuitive eating. Oh, yes. I don't agree with a lot of the intuitive eating gurus and that intuitive eating is the best way to be. And the reason is for myself and for a lot of our clients, I know in the midst of my worst place, darkest place with food, I would have had no fucking chance at intuitive eating. If I was intuitive eating, I would have ate everything. Everything. I would have eaten everything. Because I didn't know when I was hungry or when I wasn't hungry. I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know what my body needed. I just knew food made me feel good. Yeah, I that was it was that was actually the same for me. And I just thought like, I guess I didn't have like a full understanding of what intuitive eating was like, I just honored every craving that I had, like any to any thought of like food that came up, even like you said, even when I wasn't hungry, like, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna eat. I don't know. But I would be eating all day. And let's be honest, let's be honest, for 99% of the world, when you are craving, if you honor your craving, it's probably not going to be protein, it's probably not going to be vegetables. It's probably going to be high carb, high fat. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with carbs or fats. I mean, need them. They're great. But if I just honored my cravings, like I would eat ice cream and like, yeah, you know, crackers all day. Yeah, they're definitely, no, yeah, valid, but there definitely has has to be some sort of structure at first, like at least at first, when you know, the healing process is just starting to also get to know your hunger cues more and focus on like meal timing, you know, spacing out meals a little bit, you can actually figure out like, okay, am I getting hungry at this time? Or am I not? Because I feel like for those who are struggling with binge eating, can't tell when they're hungry or not, those hormones are like all out of whack. And starting to give your body the nutrients that actually and the actual from the physiological side, the actual nutrients that it is craving, because there are those two sides, there's a psychological side, there's also the actual biology and like a lot of us are malnourished. And you can be extremely overweight and still malnourished. Malnourishment means you're not getting the right nutrients in the right portions that your body needs. So it might seem like oh, malnourishment is like starving kids in Africa, but like, there's a lot of North Americans who are malnourished. Yep. So giving your body and not just the macros, the macros, the minerals, the vitamins from food, potentially from supplementation, but especially from food that it's not getting. And the thing is, is at the beginning, especially the beginning, those cravings and those urges, will naturally fade. And like, that's what we do at Cut and Conquer, right off the get-go with the majority of our clients who are struggling with this is like, we get them structured eating, we get them eating more protein, we get them eating clean foods. Like, I don't want to say it's super strict, but it is a little bit structured and rigid at the beginning, right? And then they start to feel the self-belief, they start to feel the weight come off, even if it's just water weight, the scale goes down, usually quite quickly at the beginning. And then they have some self-belief, and then we start to tackle the psychological side, right? Because at the beginning, like we talked about, you're usually pretty motivated, everything's going good, you're on your new plan, feel great, but you know, four, eight, 12 weeks into that is when those habits start to come back. So we want to tackle that before it hits. And when you get that structured eating and the predictable schedule mentally and physically, you have the space to be able to tackle that because you're not feeding the shit on yourself every night, feeling like shit for eating chocolate every night. Exactly, exactly. And then that's where we dive into all, like, figuring out what those deep rooted issues are, why the urges are coming up, whatever it is, if it is like binge eating, or if it's emotional eating, we figure that out. And then we, and we figure out, okay, what, what alternative can we try? What is something else that we can practice and really start to break away from those habits? And the belief, because a lot of people believe, like, even I had beliefs, like, I just can't stop eating. I can't stop eating. I believe that, right? A belief isn't a truth or a fact. It's simply like a reoccurring thought. So if we can start to identify what beliefs are actually limiting us and what beliefs would serve us, we can start creating evidence in our life that those all alternative beliefs can be true, right? And that's going to look different from everyone. If you guys want to hear more about that, I think it's episode 118 that dives into the more, you know, mental side. But yeah, like, once you once you see that evidence, once you see that evidence, then you will just naturally be like, Oh my God, like, I am able to do this. And that's where like you were saying the self belief, and you're going to slowly rewire your thoughts, you're going to rewire your brain to think differently. And then that's where, you know, we see the changes in the thoughts around food, but it does take time and it doesn't just happen overnight. I wish, unfortunately, you know, that is with a lot of things in life too. But you have to be willing to try, willing to try and challenge yourself. Yeah, I'm going to be in the long run. Another thing with intuitive eating too, is like, I think it can be a great end goal, like a great end goal. It doesn't have to be an end goal. It really doesn't like I'm probably never, I don't want to say never. I don't think in the relative future in the next five years, I'm ever going to do quote unquote intuitive eating because I love playing my food. I love tracking my food. I just love it. It brings me joy. But I think intuitive eating shouldn't be the goal for many, many, many people long term because it is very sustainable. It is very healthy. But you can't intuitive eat until you know how to intuitive eat. So like my personal opinion, and this is what I really try to teach to our clients and it's not a one size fits all. But it's like, you should go through a couple stages before you're ready for that. You should at least know what it's like to eat to lose weight. You should at least know what it's like to eat to maintain weight, and you should at least know what it's like to build muscle. Yes. Before you try to intuitive eat on your own long term, because if you come through those, it's going to be tricky because it still takes time let alone if you're eating, if you're going through an eating disorder as we're going through these things. So, you know, on the absolute low end of the spectrum, like you, like this is like, I don't even, I don't even know like 12 weeks before you try to do eating as a absolute minimum, right? I would say it's going to be closer to a year, like yep. And I know that that sounds like crazy to some people like, oh my gosh, I have to follow like a structured plan for a year. It's not like if you eat the exact same thing every single day, always but not what we're talking about. But you know, even to lose a good amount of weight, it takes to at least 16 weeks. Then to reverse, you know, you're looking at another four to 16 weeks to build any amount of muscle, you know, 16 to 32 weeks, at least, right? We're almost done a year just there, but yes, you're of your life or to sacrifice. And if you can even say it's a sacrifice, I don't think it is. I think it's like a massive investment and benefit. Yeah, you're like keeping your body goals one year to then know how to eat for the rest of your life. I literally have your sponsor. Crazy because it's crazy. Like you literally, you pick up all these habits, you have an under greater understanding on food and even portions too. Like, at least like for me, like I can, I don't have to weigh all the time because I have a general idea, you know, how much this is. So I guess I am like kind of intuitive eating, but that's only because I know, now I know, because I've gone through the cut, I've gone through a bulk, I've done, I recently did the reverse after my cut. So yeah, and that's like, you know, we always talk about long lasting sustainable life habits. That's literally what it is. That's literally one of the habits that you are going to take with you forever for the rest of your life. Yeah. And I think that is, yeah. Yeah. One other thing that you and I were talking about the other day in our little voice notes was like, and again, I know that I go into this in depth in that episode on like, it's called beyond the bench, understanding why we've been G. But, and again, this is still applicable to like all of our clients and as coaches and all of our personal lives. And it's like every single human like just wants to feel safe. Like, you just want to feel safe at the core of the biology of humans, like we just want to stay alive. That's what we're literally meant to do on earth is stay alive. I know it sounds like all little weird, but that's what we're here to do. And you know, for me, safety was like safety was like in the numbers. It was like in knowing about my weight, in knowing about my exact macros, my caloric intake, my caloric output, like that to me allowed me to feel safe and allowed my nervous system to calm down. So I wasn't on like high alert, fucking stressed out guilt tripping myself overeating, like, because I was like fighter flight all the time. And like when I got that sense of predictability, and I can know what was going on, I felt so safe that I had the mental space to like work through everything. For Ramsey, it was probably the same, but very opposite. It was like, bringing yourself from being on a fucking scale, bringing yourself feeling like you have to like, you know, track every single calorie you burn. And it's like, you probably felt so relaxed, not having to do that after having done that for so long, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, everyone, you know, everyone is different, but we're all so much the same at the same time. Yeah, I was just going to say that. I was just going to say that. And I think it's great for like whoever's listening to this to hear both sides of it, and you know, get two different perspectives. Like, it's not just us, like, it's not just like, you know, what Christina went through and what I went through. Like, I'm sure there are there's tons of ways, different ways, and reasons, and you know, other things that happened on why people been gied and how long and all that. But also, I feel like depends, you know, childhood as well, and just what you went through as a kid and, you know, traumatic experiences, I also have an impact on it as well. So, but I think it's great that, you know, they get to hear our sides and our experience and our thoughts. And, you know, one thing that I want to say is that it isn't forever, because when I was dealing with binge eating, like, I thought that it was going to be forever. Like, I literally was like, oh my God, like, I've heard people deal with this for 30 years. Like, that's going to be me. Like, oh my God, am I going to be bingeing for the rest of my life? Like, no. But we like, I overcame it. Like, we overcame it and we should be proud of that. And we're just an example of, like, it is possible. It totally is possible. I love that you brought that up too, because I think even our clients, like a lot of our clients know for me, nutrition is like a strength for me. Like, I am so dialed with my nutrition now. Like, it's probably like my biggest strength in life. But it wasn't. Man, was it not? I literally was the person that thought, like, I couldn't not eat the whole box of chocolate. I couldn't not eat the whole Costco-sized pack of the nine of bars. I truly felt like I couldn't. And I couldn't understand how people could be like, oh, I'll just have one. And I was actually, like, so jealous of that. I was like, yes, me too. I was like so envious of people who could just have a bite of something or just have one piece of cake. I don't know what the fuck is wrong with me. Yep. Because even if I did have one piece of cake in public, I would then go home and I would eat 15 other pieces of cake or something else. Me too. Good to stop thinking about the cake. Oh, that was me too. Yep. But yeah, I was going to say too, like it is so possible. It may not even be as hard as you think. I'm not here to say it's easy. But when you have the right protocols in place and you have the right support in place and you have a community or coaches or mentors that have gone through this and have coached other people through it, you're not alone in it. And another thing that I think is a misconception. Now I see where this comes from, but it is very possible to lose weight, to lose body fat, and still overcome binge eating. A lot of people are like, you can't do them at the same time. Look at our client, Christine. Like literally, she's killing it. She was like broken when I first talked to her. She was a broken woman. And she's down 40 plus pounds. And she's been working with her for a while now. But she's also in her first ever building phase. And it's like she was binging daily on a weekly basis. And I don't even think she's binged at all since she started with us. Has she had an unique? No, she has not. She has gone through a lot of shit. And so have a lot of our clients, like things that I could only ever dream of, like nightmare of going through. Yeah. And even if you do slip up, it's not a failure. It's not a failure. That's something too that I felt like that's what I think I had so many relaxes with like, I felt like, Oh my God, I failed. I'm ruined. I can't do this. Like, I screwed up and I'm doomed. And it's like, you're not right. It's how you respond to those quote unquote failures and those obstacles. Yeah. And one thing that I want to say too is like, the lesson less that it happens is a huge win. Like think about like the first time, like the first time or the one time, you know, you, you overcame that urge to binge. Like, that's a huge win. Like really be proud of yourself for doing that. Feel empowered, embrace it and try to carry that on to the next time, you know, the urge comes up because I'm telling you it might. There's a really big possibility that it will. And you just have to, you know, keep fighting through it because then it's going to get less and less and less. And then soon you won't be bingeing. Yeah, such a good point. And I like they brought that up because like we talk about small wins all the time. I am kind of like a big win kind of person. Like, I like, I like big wins and like big goals. The power is in a small goal. So like it really is. And the small wins because you can't reach out the ladder without the fucking first step. But even just even just thinking differently about a binge is progress. Like, oh, even if you binge and you do eat everything you're covered, just just taking a minute to recognize what's going on and taking a minute to, you know, understand try at least trying to understand that. And it's helping me most time. I would need your reaction straight to the pantry, shock my brain, shock food in my face. Yeah, right. So, yeah, the final thought, the final thought before we wrap up. And if you're a client, I know Ramsey and I like both talk to our clients about this. But if you're not a client, this might be something new. Is try to stop focusing on the problem, right? Yes, binge and yes, you over eight. And yes, you feel like shit about it. But like, how do you want to feel in the future? Like, how do you want to respond in that situation? Like, let's focus on the solution going forward. And it's not like, oh, it doesn't matter because it is valid that you feel bad about it. But, you know, instead of focusing on what you did wrong, and what you don't want to do again, focus on what you can do better next time, and what an ideal situation would look like. Because most people don't even think about that because you're so caught up being yourself up about the problem, that you know what the solution would be. So if you don't even know how you would like to respond, how in the hell are you going to do it? My God, yeah, that's so true that like focusing on problem, like problem focus, like that is huge. I feel like in society in general, and that could be like a whole another podcast episode. But yeah, focusing on the solution and like how we can be better next time, like realizing being aware, you know, having the self awareness, like, okay, you know, this happened, whatever. But like, what was my trigger? How can I, you know, overcome that next time if that trigger comes up? Or, you know, if I were to binge again, what would happen? Like, when you were saying like the ideal situation? Yeah, I love it. And if you guys like, if that resonated, and that question, we have a full free mind and body workbook that you guys can download, you can like print it off and write in it, or you can, you know, keep on your phone and type directly into the workbook. It has like those, it's not specifically for binge eating. It's kind of for behavior change in general. Yes. And it's just really insightful and helps you kind of understand yourself better and kind of where you would like to be. So yeah, super helpful. I will drop the link to that direct download in the show notes as well. If you guys are interested in that. Yeah, guys, definitely take a look at it. Like even me, like someone who has overcome binge eating, like Christina said, it's just like these questions help you dive into, you know, the deeper rooted issues and it really gets you to think about like, okay, wait, but why? Why am I thinking like this? And that's where the changes happen. So yeah, highly recommend taking a look at it. Awesome. Well, if you guys like this episode, you found it valuable. We really do appreciate it. If you guys could give it a little share, take a screenshot or share it from Spotify, Apple, wherever you're listening to your Instagram story, you can give us a tag, @nafina, @kantpongforfitness, Ramsey is fit, Dudley Ramsey of. Yep. That's cool. We will see you guys in the next episode. See you. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Beyond the Body. If you're getting value from the podcast, please don't forget to follow rate and review. It really goes a long way. And if you're ready to take your mind and body to the next level and you want to work closely with me and my team, head over to my Instagram page @nafina and tap the link in my bio to fill in a coaching application to see if cut and conquer can help you transform your life. [Music]