Reason To Behold
25 Questions on Career Development as a Believer RTBP EP 182
We’re just ordinary people who’ve encountered an extraordinary God (the one true God!). From time to time, we have some really cool conversations. So we decided to switch on some mics and make a podcast out of it! Unashamedly Christian, unapologetically unscripted (most times!). And we’re intentional about making Christian concepts both practical and visible in the life of the disciple. Our podcast isn’t intended to be a teaching platform. Instead, it’s a public dialogue designed to cause us (the hosts) and you (the listener) to be provoked with godly thoughts and inspired to walk closer with God. And also, to gain a practical perspective of the Christian faith lived out!
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- Broadcast on:
- 22 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
Christians can make money entrepreneurship, career development. If you care about any of those types of things, then this is the conversation for you. Welcome back to another episode of the Reasons for the whole podcast with Tolly talks, Arnold reasons. And we've got Mr. Punch you in your face, Pete. Good to have you back, Pete, or at least on the microphone side of things. Yeah, no, appreciate it. Good to be here, good to be here. Good, good. So for some of the listeners who've listened to the recent episodes, we started going through several questions with a time limit, key questions, and if you missed it, go check it out. But in today's episode, we want to continue on that same trail on same vein, except this time under the banner of career development and entrepreneurship. So I've got a bunch of questions lined up here. Pete and Tolly haven't seen them. I haven't even read through them yet myself. So we're going to find out for the first time. And I think same rules apply, three minutes limit. Was it three minutes? That's what we set last time. Yeah, you're going to write it down because it's three of us now. Sure. I mean, last time you guys barely spread it evenly. I was like, one person goes, oh, you've got 40 seconds left. So yeah. Let's do four minutes then. Four minutes, yeah. Cool. No problem. So we'll jump straight in. Okay. Question number one, how can we discern God's calling in our careers and entrepreneurial pursuits? I think Pete's got to jump on that. I think so. And that's interesting. That's probably the worst one for me. I think, I mean, I would probably go with the same way you discern God in anything else, which is familiarizing yourself. It's a process that starts, I think, much earlier than the decision, right? It's a process of familiarizing yourself with his voice or with his spirit in your life in general. And then when such things as maybe you have an entrepreneurial desire, you already are in a place where you can present that to God and determine is that for you, is that good? It is a question of moving faith. It's a question of all of that. And so I'd say, familiarizing yourself with his voice and practically, I think you do that through prayer, so studying his word and community with the church. Sorry, I don't know if I have anything more to add than that. I think with Pete here, we might not even need the whole four minutes or whatever it is anymore. You know, I don't think I have anything to add. I think like Pete said, it's really just about knowing God's voice is generally and doing the same things, right? So being willing to hear what he has to say, being willing to make the adjustments and the movements based on what he says. So I think the more you can practice it in the smaller areas of life, the easier it becomes in some of these or I'm quite big at areas. If I could add to that, I mean, I'm sorry, so no, go ahead, Arnold. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Trust me, I took all the time. I was just going to say, we see that demonstrated in the Bible, right? Abraham's first test was move away from your family. It wasn't your son, right? By the time he'd got there, he'd done the move, he moved with Lotz, he had to separate with From Lotz, he had to go through his wife being taken by Kings. And all of those things were stepping stones to finally go to sacrifice his son. He can do that with the expectation that God would raise his son. Same thing with Gideon, same thing with David. What we see is God seems to build him a lot more. I'd say with a question like this, it doesn't matter where you start, you know, the best time to plant a tree is 25 years ago, next best time is now. Start now familiarizing yourself with his word, familiarizing yourself with getting more into prayer, getting more into community, but again, yourself too, lost teachings so that you can hear his voice and discern what you're saying. And then when these sort of things come, you're, you're already, you're already, you know, ready that. I think something that's so interesting is that leave your family for Abraham is probably quite similar on the same level as kill your son for other people because that that's not like a small thing, you know, like back then, yeah, we have FaceTime, right? We have WhatsApp, we're like, okay, I miss my family back home, hop on FaceTime. He might have never seen his family again, right? So it was still quite a big thing. And I do wonder if that was the first thing that God said to Abraham or if they'd had other interactions before, they're not recorded. But you know, I do wonder about that. And I think what was interesting for me is even in the stuff that you said Peter is that, okay, you know, what happened with Lot, what happened with his wife, with the kings, all of those things were his fault. Yeah, that wasn't actually part of the, that wasn't actually part of the plan. But even through that, God was developing his faith because okay, Lot got taken, God empowered him to go beat other kings and bring Lot back. You know, Abraham lied, which is why his wife got taken. He was like, Oh, she's my, she's my sister. Kind of true, but not really true, like she's still your wife. And that's why kings took his wife. You know, but God was still so faithful, even though he wasn't actually being obedient, he wasn't actually doing the right thing. God still develops his faith through that. So for me, it's really comforting that even if you don't get everything right, God is still going to do what God does, you know? Yeah, for the maybe just 30 seconds, if you will. No, I think the only thing that I wanted to tag on, because I love everything that you guys have mentioned, I think the, because I know that there's an issue that can sometimes come up with, Oh, well, I haven't heard God tell me to do this thing therefore I'm going to stand still until otherwise, right? And I think, yes, some people do get an explicit, yeah, do this. This is what I need you to do. Or this is where I'm calling you to go. But sometimes it doesn't happen like that. I can think of so many times like that in my own life. However, I think looking at what's in your hands, committing what's in your hands into God's hands, take your desires, God, this is what I'm thinking. This is what I'm trying to explore. Guide me lead me. Is it something that is right? Show me away if it's not is a simple first step. And then the second thing is just taking it in stages and steps because when you take that first step, the second step sometimes shows itself forward. And it's not until you're looking back sometimes I found in my life that you realize that, Oh, actually, the whole long that was where God was showing me to go from here to there to everywhere else. And I didn't need that up front. Yeah, that's my 30 seconds. Cool. Question number two, what does it look like to honor God in the workplace or business, especially in competitive environments. Lord, send it. I think you should start with this one. I think for me, you know what? I'm not going to say too much on it, but I think honoring God in the workplace and in business should look the same way it looks like in the church, in church settings, in our Christian friendships. And I think that's all we sometimes go wrong is separating the two, right? I think in the same way that we are supposed to practice Godly principles in our church environments or church meetings or amongst our Christian friends, we should also do the same things in our workplace. Colosians three speaks about working heartily as unto God and not unto men. That's a very big cheat code. And it's something that has caused me to over deliver even to wicked bosses at times. And I've eaten the fruit later on, right? So I think that's probably what I would say. And as in terms of the competitive side, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't personally think there's anything wrong with being competitive because I think that, okay, now I think about scripture, I'll do one another in good works, right? I think depending on what it is that you're competing on and what the spirit behind it is what we're determined whether it's something good and Godly or not, if I'm trying to compete to provide the best service to my customers in comparison to other service providers in my industry as an entrepreneur in business, that's a godly thing. If I'm thinking about the end user and solving their problem to the best, most efficient degree, that's a good thing, right? But if I'm thinking about doing it just because I want to make someone look silly and I want to take all of their customers and make all of their money, then you weigh up. That's my plan. I think it comes down to how you do it because I think at the core of competition, like there is going to be in a way a winner and a loser. So by me competing and doing the best of I can, I might be taking money out of someone else's pocket. And I don't actually think for me, that's not a bad thing. That part is not a bad thing. I think what it is, is that if you compete in an ungodly way, that's where I think you get broke. Because if I'm winning, I'm winning. And sometimes when people have to lose, it kind of is what it is. So for me, I don't necessarily think about it. In that sense, I think more, how am I competing? Am I competing with my morals? Am I competing in a godly where am I cheating? Am I like, slandering people? Am I lying about people? Then it's not godly. But if I'm just doing what I do and I win, okay, cool. That's not I mean, that's not an issue. And sometimes, just to say, sometimes competing with godly principles can make you look like you're taking the back step, but in the long run, god ends up showing you why that move that looked like a sacrifice is actually something that sets you up later. I was going to say, just I would extend totally this point where, I mean, the obvious one is don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal. But then even going that step further to honor your sort of biblical principles. So the best example I have with this, maybe it was not selling so it is selling so much, but it's not in the way that we presented it. My daughter's godparents, so they're like a really close family friend, they were selling their house and they had someone come through, had a verbal agreement on a price. Someone came just after like another viewer, oh no, the estate agents, I think had given them another viewer, another offer, which was more and they turned it away. So the Bible says, let your yes be or yes. That was the only reason, powerful, like that was the only reason why they turned it away, because they had said yes to someone else. And the guy was like, yeah, but you're not contracting your badge, you're not you're not doing anything illegal, you're not doing anything wrong by taking a better offer, or even going back to other person and say, look, someone's giving me more will you match. They're like, no, we've said yes. The Bible says that you're yes, you're yes, you're no, therefore we can't, and you're losing that on money. And it's where I think it's, it doesn't have to be the it's just bad thing, but it's actually the thing that actually is more in line with your biblical, your biblical faith, your your faith, that I think if you honor that you are on that, that is a tough one. That is a really tough one. I don't know if I'd have, if I'd have been able to do the same thing. I can tell you, I know Arnold's causing a bidding war, bro. I will happily receive your offer. Let me just take that back to the market and see what everyone else wants to say. But no, it's it's honorable. And I think this is the thing is that, yeah, yeah. Well, because I think it talks about even like, unto your own hurt, there's a verse that talks about that. Like, if you've said something, or if you might be if you've sworn something, you have to do it even if it costs you, you know, yeah, that's technical. That's real technical. I don't have been planning loopholes for sure. But I respect that man. And I'm sure, and it's the thing, even like, whether it's like, it's not, it's not necessarily a case of, should you do this? Or should you not? It's more a case of, I think God sees something like that. And he wanted it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Question number four, what role does faith play in taking risks, whether in career moves or business ventures? I think it was almost everything. Do you know what I mean? Like, for, especially for Christians, anytime you're taking a risk, you should be doing it in faith. Like, otherwise, what are you doing? You know, for me, it's like, it should be everything. Like, you should be doing, because it says, whatever isn't a faith is sin. So whatever we're doing, we should be doing it in faith. You know, so for me, like, as Christians, it's so important that we step up into these things in faith. We go on, not just like blind faith, but faith comes by hearing here and by the word, like, all the things we've been talking about, like, what is your faith based on? What am I stepping out based on? Am I stepping out based on a word or a confirmation or just because I want to? You took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to say, it has to be an informed faith, because faith and saying, oh, I'm going out in faith and I'm going to do this deal with this armed robber. I was going to go rob that person and then it'll be fine. And there's a, there's a literal movie where they're going to commit a crime and they're praying God help us or something like that. And it's like, what movie is this? It's an Nigerian movie. Of course. It's a Hollywood movie, of course. But it has to be an informed faith, I think. And you can't just, everything you do should be informed by your time in the word, your time in prayer, your time in community, one of the community in the church. And that should be the guide you're taking. Hey, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. I agree 100% of that faith. As people of faith, as people of the kingdom, I think we should, in a lot of ways, be perceived as the biggest risk takers. Because I think like, it's the fact that faith is all about the unseen. It's the evidence of, it's the substance of things hoped for. It's not something that is present or something that is something that we're looking forward towards, right? And therefore, there's an in between from between where we are now and where we're trying to get to or what we're trying to see. And I think just risk taking in general, I think when you take more risks. I think that there is a mood like this is the thing. Sorry, I was just going to say there is no stress informed faith is there's a difference between the faith that Christ has to take two loads of bread, break it and have the expectation that these 5,000 people are going to get fed. And then some other person coming and hearing about Bitcoin and taking your life savings and putting it on Bitcoin with the faith that you're going to turn a massive problem. Yeah, that's what I mean. Well, let's be fair, right? Bitcoin, if you've had Bitcoin pretty much at any time and you've hold it, you still haven't lost money yet. So Bitcoin was probably, because of free. No, you're like, if there's one decision, you can make different in life. Like, if you could go back and do one thing, the only thing I would do differently is hold Bitcoin from day one or even day 60 or day. Like Bitcoin has just been up the whole time. But that I get what you've been like, people sometimes say, okay, this is my step of faith. I'm doing this massive thing. It's like, yeah, but God didn't tell you to do that. Like, that's not. So I was looking up at risk and like, what does risk mean? Right? Because if God has told you to do something, if you zoom out, the risk is zero, right? The risk of something being bad. If God has told you to do it, the risk is zero, because God doesn't fail. You know, but there's risk as we see it. And it's saying, you know, the possibility of something bad happening uncertainty about the effects or implications of an activity with respect to something that humans value, that's even interesting, right? Such as health, wealth, well-being, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, if God has told you to do something, the outcome is guaranteed. I hear it 100%, one question I have, though, is what about the risks that we're taking when it's not necessarily on an instruction? Well, but I guess what risk, what would you be doing? That's not really doing that. Let's talk about Bitcoin as the example, right? Like someone spent their time researching and studying Bitcoin and all of that kind of stuff. They've assessed it, they've got some funds available, and they are making the decision to go in on Bitcoin as an example. Did you check though? Did you check with your God before you did that? Because, Barry, we've all been there. Yeah, I don't know about Peter, but we've all been in crypto. Yeah. Sometimes before you bought crypto, did you actually check with God? Like, is this a good idea? Is this a bad idea? And that's the thing for me, is that like, granted, you don't always get like the big Abraham word going into this, but like, you still have the Holy Spirit. And we all know that there have been things that we've gone to do. You've had a bit of a check in your spirit. You did it anyway, and it like blew up in your face, right? And that's what I'm saying, like, God wants to be in those decisions. So are you checking? It's interesting, man. It's interesting. I would never speak against checking, right? I'm just thinking about like, why are we checking? I'm just curious. I think we are, I can't remember if it's a song, but the Bible says that the word of God should be a lamp onto my feet, right onto my path. I think being people who are called to walk through the Spirit is being people who are called to allow for God's Spirit to guide every single step. Now, whether that's you going to kneel down and pray on fast for a few days, before you make a decision, or you are just taking a moment to check your heart, to see what's the, what's the push? What's the, I forget that we've got buzzwords for these things, but, you know, what am I feeling the Spirit to say in this moment, right? I think we are called to check because we recognize that we are just stewarding someone else's gift of life, God's gift of life, for us. I love that. And listeners, you're going to have to forgive me because I'm breaching every rule about this three-minute limit thing, right? But it's a, it's a question that I think is on my mind. I 100% agree with all of that, right? The only thing that I'm thinking is what does that look like across life in general? So when I walk into Sainsbury's, for example, and I'm deciding on what I'm going to buy from my household, right? Is it, am I falling short by not checking whether I should get Heinz Kitchup or Daddy's Kitchup? I don't think it's about falling short, but it's about God still has input on those things. And if you seek His input, you will get the best of every situation. Wonderful. So it's not, it's not a sin. So like my dad, yeah? I watch my dad, and these, this is one of the things I love about my dad, yeah, will be, will go visit my parents. Simple thing of going to the fridge, yeah? I go to the fridge, I look at what looks good, and I pick it. Yeah, my dad is there going, Lord, what should I, what should I take? Yeah? And I'm watching him, he's doing this out loud. This is just what he does. And he said, there's been times when he wanted to take yogurt. And God was like, maybe don't take the yogurt. He took the yogurt. He was suffering because he took the yogurt. Yeah. So it's like, these are some of the little things it's not going to, it's probably not going to kill him, you know, but it's even going to be better if he eats the right thing before bedroom, of course. And those are, that's, to be honest, that's how I want to live my life, right? And those little things, you know, okay, do I go this way, do I go this way? Yeah, literally, that same question, like driving, I'm someone, I am rerouting, I'm checking on Google Maps, reroute, see the best route, like every single time. Yeah, and I am someone that there's an example, I'm going down the road, I know this is a shorter route, I know this is the one with less traffic, but I feel, and the way God speaks to me sometimes is, I feel like, now do this, like I feel it physically do this, like take this route. And I'm like, I know that's not the right route for me. I took that route, I met a friend on that route that needed something correct about it. And I knew that was God taking me down that path. Now it's not, again, it's not heaven and hell, it's not life or death. Do I take this route or do I take the more efficient one? But how much more exciting is it? As believers, as followers of press, we allow for us to lead our lives. I'm truly walked by the spirit step by step, not just in the big long time. So I love that, and I'm going to bring it to a close suit, don't worry, but the only thing I would add to it, right, is that I, because this is something that I historically had that disposition overall across the board, right? Where things moved for me is I started to study and I guess reflect on relationships in general, right? And even looking at what the scriptures say about things like maturity and going from milk to meat and those types of things. And I thought to myself, through a lot of reflection, is God's desire, like if we were to imagine God, like let's talk about us as friends, right? When you're getting to know me, there's a lot of questions you have to ask, right? There's a lot of unknowns. As our relationship develops, whilst you may never necessarily be in a place where you can definitely absolutely know for sure what Arnold's answer is on every single thing, through the development of our relationship, it comes to a point where you're finishing my sentences or even saying things before I am, because you're so dowed into what it is that my desires and my interests are the things that I would be saying yes to and saying no to, right? That's not to speak against the making inquiries and things like that. I think I don't think I ever lose by doing that. No, but I think you're talking about human-to-human friendships or relationships, right? Where I might be as smart as you, you might be as smart as me. I think where God is different is that look, God knows things that we can never imagine, right? So for example, there was one guy who's an investor and God told him, "By salt." He's like, "Why would I buy salt?" Yeah, but it was because there was going to be snow storms and the city, the government, was going to need salt, and that's where I think that you're right. I think on some things, you know that God is not going to tell you to go and cheat on your wife. I can finish that sentence for you. I don't even need to check, but I think that there are some things that you'll miss out on in life because you didn't check, because God knows the end from the beginning. I think further to that point, further to Tony's point, is the story of Joshua and the Givianites, right? If you look at what Joshua did, so the Givianites kids Joshua said, "We're from a distant land, our sandals are worn out, we need shelter, take us in, make a covenant with us to take us in, and we'll be saved for your people." It's counted against Joshua only because Joshua didn't check with the Lord, but what Joshua did is what the Lord had said to do to people who come to seek in refuge, take them in, assimilate them into Israel, and treat them as they were Israelites. The only mistake he made was not checking in that instance, even though he did the right thing. I get what you mean, and they can sound sometimes like, "Well, what if the moment doesn't give me the time to stop and pray?" I'm not even saying it has to be that it can be that also you know what God's instruction in this moment is, and again, I don't even think it's wrong, all right? I just think I think it's, I think it's what I'm excited to. I feel like what God wants from us is communion and relationship, and for me it's almost like the more touch points, the better, right? Like, sometimes I don't need to ask Carla certain things, right? I kind of know, but it gives me an opportunity to commune with my wife and have the conversation, you know, we can agree together and we can move forward, and that's where I think that for me it's more about the relationship element as well, and having that habit of that communion, even like random city things God. Where is this so interesting to me, because I'm also thinking about it from the relationship point of view, but from a slightly different perspective, like again, like I said, I will never, for the person that wants to do the checks on every single thing, I will never say it's the wrong thing to do, or they shouldn't, right? Because that's not my angle. Everyone can figure out how they want to do this relationship with God for themselves. So it's a question. I think my only two things I ask means one, if that's the way that we're saying, or if that's where we're saying that God is calling us to, then why don't we, number one, why would we say it's not falling short, and number two separate from that, like why are we not doing this across the board, like where is it that we, and number three even, what is it that what is it that we're trying to avoid, because I know I heard, I think mentioned somewhere in there about getting the best outcome, or not missing out on certain things, right? Which I can understand, but it's like those are some of the questions I'm thinking about. Pete, by the way, all good, bro. Thank you so much, bro. You need to come on this podcast more often. Yeah, it's always nice when you're here. It's always nice when you're here, bro. But yeah, Pete's out for the meantime, but he'll be back in another episode soon. We can't hear you, bro. So I'll just say, and if you guys say something outrageous, I'll edit myself in. Yeah. Do that. Do that, please. Do you know what? I think to the questions that you asked, I think that as humans, to be honest, we look for shortcuts. We look for the quickest and easiest way to do things, and often taking the time to get still and hear from God isn't the quickest thing to do. And I think that that's part of it. I think that also, part of us in nature is often thinking that we should know best, you know? So I can rely on my logic. I can rely on myself. It says trust in the Lord and with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding in all your ways, acknowledge him, and he should direct your path, right? And that's where for me, it's like, I can understand most things, you know, like, as humans, God has given us amazing minds to understand and comprehend. But there are also things that, as a human, I can't know, and I can't see, you know? And yeah, that's where I think you're going. No, no, no, you think that's where? I think trust in the Lord with that, that's it, isn't it? Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding in all your ways, acknowledge him and he will direct your path. As he might say, don't go to the office today, even though my boss says I should be in the office today, God might say, don't go. Oh, look, today's 9/11, and the office is now smithereens like. And you know what this, so this is the thing, two things. Number one, 1000%, I don't, my, where I'm coming from is not, look, you figure it out, do you think is right? It's definitely not that, like, it's very much a case of, what do we already know about God, his desires, and like, what is the level of maturity we have even in our relationship with him as the first point of all, right? And then second to that, using what we do know as an opportunity to discern, because I do believe that when it is his word, his way, and the things we do know about him that are leading us, I think that's another way for us to be led by him or to acknowledge him of our ways, because we're not going according to our own senses, right? But I do also believe that another thing to that is to always remain open, right? And sensitive to the fact that there may be an interjection, there may be a need to do something that's a little bit different from what you otherwise expected of him. And I think, I can't think of the immediate example in my mind, but there's something in my mind telling me these examples of that in scripture. But what's that? Of basically doing, intending to go a particular way or do a particular thing based on what we know about God, or maybe what God has said previously, and then being given a different instruction or something. So I think it might have been David. You know, David, there were a couple of times where people raided them, took their wives, blah, blah, blah. And one time David said, "Should I go after them?" And God said, "Yes, go over the books and do this." Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Similar situation, David said, "Should I go after them?" God said, "Yes, this time go under the bush and do this." So like same situation, two different instructions. And I think it's interesting because even with miracles, you don't often see Jesus do the same miracle twice, right? Because it's almost like God likes to have fun with how he does these things. It's not always going to be the same way twice. And I found that when I was early in my career, my pay rises came to me. Yeah, it wasn't, I didn't have to go and do anything. When it became later, it's like the MO changed. And now I had to go out of my comfort zone to go and do those things. So it's just so interesting that God does different things in different ways at different times. So with that said, I think that wraps up this episode, bro. Thanks. Let us know what you guys think. Hit us up in the comments. Let us know where you think we've gone right, gone wrong, or maybe missed out a few points. Or maybe you've got something to add that we hadn't considered. Let us know at Reason to Behold, we're on YouTube or platforms. See what have you got to say as we're signing up? Ask God what to do. Like, and you might find the next Bitcoin. Who knows? Who knows? Just thank you guys so much for listening. I will catch you on the next episode. Peace. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]