Out Now With Aaron and Abe
Out Now Bonus: The Substance
Hey there, Aaron here without now with Aaron and Abe, Abe is currently on vacation, but we do have a number of bonus reviews, so just setting up that the following is a review for the substance. "People always ask for something new. It's inevitable. At 50, well, it stops. Have you ever dreamt of a better version of yourself younger, more beautiful, more perfect?" One single injection unlocks your DNA and will release another version of yourself. This is The Substance. Okay, here we are of another mini review. There's so many films coming out right now. I want to make sure that we're able to cover as many as we can, because there's some films that are really worth talking about that we're an excited period of time. So join me right now. We have Mr. Peter Paris. Hello. Hi. Hi, Aaron. I'm good. I'm actually in like a soundproof recording, even though not using the cool microphones, like a friend of mine asked if I could help on an event. And I'm people who know L.A., I'm in the Fairfax District by the famous Cantor's deli. But yes, in a sound booth, all professional, except I'm just using my AirPods, which is not professional. I hope you go to Cantor's later, because that's just good stuff right there. That is true. Actually, the guy who runs this place, it just ordered dinner for us. We're getting Mendocino Farms, which is good. I mean, it's literally the next, it's like three doors down. It's so close. Well, I'm glad we're talking about like L.A. related stuff, because we're going to talk about the substance. It's although not shot. I don't think it was shot in L.A., but it's definitely not really shot. It's too French to have been an L.A. shot. Yeah. It's like a Cupric shooting eyes wide shot, and it's supposed to be New York, Manhattan, or whatever. It's clearly not. Yeah. But we are going to talk about the substance, if a film that you should have already heard some of the trailer to, but certainly have been pinned as notable for being outrageous and all these things and what have you, we'll talk about what the film is in just a second here. But I want to start this off by saying this is from director Coralee Farge, who previously made the film Revenge, which I think is on Netflix right now. It's not hard to like watch if you want to catch up for a previous film. But Peter, to get you into this conversation about the substance, I feel like I want to hear you talk about it. I'm going to start off by noting, when I saw this film about a month ago at this point, I directly said to you, I'm pretty sure this is going to be your favorite film of the year. So now you have seen the film. I want to know how accurate am I in that statement and why? I mean, obviously the year is not over. So I mean, I haven't seen mega mega opolis. Is that all you said? Yes. I've not seen that yet, but I mean, I would have to look at my top five Furiosa like it. Yeah. I mean, it feels, how about this? I guess my answer would be, yeah, you're probably right. It probably is my number one right now. But in a weird way, what's more interesting to me is when I saw this like zone of interest, which is such a different movie or whatever, it felt like it's not necessarily, is it the best movie of the year? It's the, is this going to be on my best of the 2020s? And I'm pretty sure it will be on my best of the 2020s, which should make you think well, then obviously it's the best of the year. That's what I want to hear the lie about. Because I, well, I guess they feel like a best of the decade. You really want to like, you want to see it a few times, you want to see by the end of the decade, what the movie was about, how relevant does that still seem? Like how poignant is it and everything? And it feels like the kind of movie that I'm pretty sure will still resonate in 20 to 30 or whatever, whereas a movie that something like Furiosa, which I think is just incredible and everything, I guess I feel like in a weird way, Fury Road was on my best of the 2010s. And I guess Furiosa could too, it's certainly possible, but it doesn't feel as important to me that Furiosa makes the list as like Fury Road did. And so for the substance, unless we have another great, great kind of, it doesn't necessarily have to be body horror, but very like not subtle, strong take from a feminist director about, you know, aging and celebrity and all that, I would be surprised if there's some other movie like this on the works that would take its place. But to me, the number one movie of the year, though, isn't it? I guess it's always tricky about when you're picking your films and stuff is like, there's why something should be a part of the decade. And then also, what in that particular year were the things that really like resonated or are just really connected to, and they're not necessarily the same? Yeah, it's weird, but you were absolutely right, it was absolutely, it was absolutely a Peter movie, it was absolutely pretty much from the first shot, which very to me feels like it's, is it Fajee, is that her last name? - Bargeee. - Bargeee. - Bargeee, it very much felt to me that she was aping one of the movies that also made my, though, my number one of the 2010s, is Jonathan Guezer's Under the Skin. That first shot of the egg, the yolk that becomes two, and it's all about like the sound design, and it's all like very much like, what's you in this like certain headspace? I was like, oh, this is kind of like the Under the Skin opening shot of the eyeball. But yeah, I really liked it. - I want to stop you there, because I want to talk about what this film is and give a brief, whatever it, yeah, but with that mind, first off, I feel like I get a little credit for guessing that this will be your number one film in the year, at least getting close. - Oh, you totally did. - Technically, though, there's three months left, we don't, I mean, I think- - I'm sure, yeah, I know. There's, I mean, we have a Sean Baker film, who I know you also are a big fan of. So I mean, there's- - Oh, yes, which actually, I just got a screening for that, so I'm trying, yes, can't wait. - Yeah, I'll probably see you there, but beyond that, I do admire the force that you want to have about thinking that this could be a best of the decade for you, even if it doesn't end up as number one. My mind doesn't compute that way. I can't think ahead in that capacity. I can make guesses as to like where my best of decade would be or what have you, but be separating, separating the idea of, this is my favorite thing of this year, why would it not be like in the best of the decade? I don't like, I can't process that that way. But you know, good audio. - I like the- - Well, I mean, I guess- - I like the forward thinking on your part. Barbie was not my best film of the year, but I can sort of see, if I do like a top 20, I can kind of see it, because that's clearly a big, like, Jordan Peele's Get Out. Get Out was not my number one movie of the year, but those are very zeitgeisty movies and they're very good movies, so does that kind of make sense? - Yeah, that also speaks to how you're constructing lists to begin with, right? You're now you're going necessarily against, not necessarily like tagging things up with. It's on this big list because I admire the movie so much, but because there's a societal component here that speaks to it being a big deal, and also I happen to like- - Right, but I mean, there are plenty of movies that you and I don't like that clearly make a lot of money. I mean, like, I don't think I would call Super Mario Brothers a zeitgeist movie. It's just more like, yeah, of course, I was going to make a lot of money. I liked it more than you did, but neither of us put it on our best of anything list. So I don't know if like, would you say that's a zeitgeist movie? I don't think it's just making a lot of money. That's what I'm saying. - I wasn't saying money. I said zeitgeist, you know, cultural components of it all, like, I mean, you know, Oppenheimer wasn't the biggest film of the year, it wasn't the fourth biggest film of the year, but it was certainly about in the conversation for a good reason beyond just the partner ring up with Barbie. There's a whole different conversation that we don't need to have. I want to talk about the substance, but I do admire where this is going to be like, we'll revisit this when we get to 2029 as a side note, another movie that I'm pretty sure is going to make my best of the decade. Again, if I'm talking top 20, I would be surprised if Godzilla minus one is not on your list. - I mean, no, that's obvious. - I mean, yeah, it's a great movie. It's one of the best movies in a franchise that you adore, like, but was that your number one movie of the year? - It was by number two, it was by number two movie of the last year or so. - Oh, it was pretty high, I mean, but I mean, I would be like, yeah, there's no way that's not going to make his list, like, you just said today, you saw five times in the Peter's or six, five or five? - Yeah, so there's some there, so that may be that answers your question. - No, it wasn't Godzilla number one. - Even right now, I have a free, mature letterboxed list of my top films of the decade so far, so it's like, yeah, I have given a little thought about this because it'll save time later on when I'm like, what are my decade? I have to go a whole bunch of research. Let's get back to the substance. This movie, it's directed by Pauli Prache. It stars Demi Moore as Elizabeth Sparkle, great name, an Academy Award-winning actress and the host of like a popular TV aerobic show, she gets fired by Dennis Quaid playing a slimy TV executive who is basically the same age as her because she is well considered tooled. So her sorrows aside, she is given the opportunity to use a black market drug that will- - Hosempic. - Okay. - Known as the substance that will essentially create a younger, better version of herself. - Correct. - But it is still her. - I don't tell them to have as many spoilers as I want. - Okay, all right, yes. - It's about this premise. I'm trying to be careful. - But yes, the whole thing of it is you remember you are one, that is a big selling purpose of this thing. Margaret Qualley plays this younger, better version. There are rules, there are parameters and there's distinct things that take place when using the substance and how this whole deal works. But essentially, only Demi Moore or Margaret Qualley's version of this same person can exist at one time and things go from there, things inevitably will go off the rails because this is a body horror film, but in the time being, while Demi Moore is no longer being able to work, Margaret, sorry, Elizabeth Sparkle is no longer able to work, the younger version of herself receives instant popularity for a variety of reasons, for also an aerobic shell. - Yeah, that's what we want to call it. So with all of that said, you've already expressed that, I've already basically just told everyone, you love this movie and then you back me up by saying, yeah, it's going to be like, oh, that's the decade, just to get my thoughts out of the way of the film. I also really like this movie. I think it's highly entertaining for one thing, for being a pretty gnarly body horror film, it was like, it was rewarding to see that it got a B cinema score, which is a weird thing to say, but it's because I feel like, well, it could have been an F, it could have easily been an F, especially based on the places it goes. But like that says, okay, they knew how to sell this movie, like people walked in knowing it'd be this kind of crazy thing and it actually lives up to being that crazy thing. But like I just said, it is entertaining, like it's fun to watch the way this thing plays out. - Especially that it's two and a half hours. - Yeah, it's quite, it's quite an ordeal to like go through this whole thing. But yeah, I think it, it's quite compelling. It has a number of wild turns in it, to say the least, and more and quality are very good in this movie. And so it's quite. - Oh, for sure. - Yeah. - So it's quite, quite is also great in this movie. Like the film that has only so many characters and only so many places it actually goes. It uses all of that to its betterment and it's expertly directed. I was surprised, I knew it was a hit it can, and I was surprised to see like, what did it win it can? I was like, I assume directing or something and it's like screenplay. - It's a good thing. - It's a good screenplay. - Yeah, the good script, no doubt. But it's like, it's so aggressively directed, we're like, oh, okay, I was like, that would have been my initial guess if I didn't already know it was a screenplay award. With all that, yeah, I think it would be very irritating. It's obviously speaking to societal standards and Hollywood celebrity and any number of things that we'll probably talk about in a few seconds here. And it does it without worrying about subtlety because why that's not the kind of film this is. It's going to bludgeon you over the head with what it's doing and it has a lot of fun doing it. So yeah, I very much enjoyed what this will be offered, but Peter, please expand on where you're enjoying it. - Well, one of the things I'm very curious about, I mean, obviously, as Aaron likes to say, I am old as dirt, but I, my favorite movie of the year, sorry, my favorite movie of all time is Sunset Boulevard. And one of the things that I really loved about that movie is that I think I saw when I was 20 and then I moved to LA and then I saw it again in my 30s and then now I'm in my 50s and I feel like, you know, three main characters are at different ages and different stages in their lives. And if the movie has what I call like different entry points and this movie kind of does too, but I guess it's only two, right? There is the middle-aged version, which is Demi Moore. And then there is assuming this, I get 20-something version, which is Margaret Qualley. And I always find stories like that very interesting, not just for the piece themselves, but also for when I'm talking about them with people and like where they are in their lives and everything. And I'd be very curious to see like the only people I know that have seen the substance are like fellow critics, which are all about younger than me, but like not 22 or something. And so I would be very curious, I don't imagine that they would like it and stuff, but I would be curious to see if they're more close to Margaret Qualley's age, like how do they see the film? How much did they empathize with Elizabeth Sparkle versus she's just Sue, right? I don't think she has a last name. You know that I have a last name. Yeah, she's just Sue. Of course, she's Margaret Qualley. Right, yeah. I feel like that's a good joke about the film. It's how limited knowledge they have and it is bring her up to the top anyways, like yeah, Sue, great. I think the other thing that I think is interesting is like there's always this kind of conversation in art about like there are people who seem to come fully formed, filmmaker, painter, whatever, singer out of nowhere, and their music or whatever, it doesn't necessarily seem informed by the other things that came before them. And then there are other artists where you're like, oh, well, clearly, he likes Scorsese, like clearly he likes Robert Altman and everything. I think what's interesting about Farjay's movie is like you can see the black comedy template of something like Sunset Boulevard, which is like 1950, Billy Wilder, but there's also very much a dream like, and like you said, body horror quality, which makes me think of Mulholland Drive. And I think that's interesting. It's like all three of these movies are about Hollywood. They're all, they all have like a woman, a star and everything and they're very different. And for me as a person who's seen all these movies and many more about Hollywood, it's very rewarding. I do wonder what it would be like if you haven't seen a lot of stuff about Hollywood doing Hollywood, what something like this would be, and then I'd be curious to see what you think about that. And then another thing is that like, well, I wouldn't say like Sunset Boulevard, but certainly like Mulholland and other ones, it is very much a Hollywood or Los Angeles that is not really a one to one to what it's really as, you know, I live in Los Angeles, you live a little outside of Los Angeles. So we know Los Angeles and Hollywood and that's clearly, it's not just because she's a French filmmaker and we have no idea where she got to shoot it. It's a heightened version. It's like a heightened thing and I just, I, like if you look at the, where I would say like the player, right, the player feels like that is probably what Los Angeles was like in the 90s. Is it the 90s? It's 90s that it leans, it's also a satire, but it certainly it leans and it seems very but like the vernacular, this kind of, this kind of laid back privilege that the characters have like to the inside baseball and that's very, that's very well. And it's also Altman who's not really a stylistic filmmaker by comparison. But this movie, I know, and like, I'm not, we're not going to go into last ex spoilers, but I think it's okay. Talked about the first five minutes, first five minutes, like after this amazing shot of an egg of a yoke that becomes two with, you know, a shot of the substance, you have this great single, well it's not really a single take, but it's a single frame of workers putting together a Hollywood star for Elizabeth Sparkle and how over time the time becomes degraded and everything. And like, like, it looks, it looks like a Hollywood's, yeah, I mean, that is basically what it looks like. It's the same marble around it and everything. But already there, it's like you said, it's, it's heightened, it's very symmetrical how they're putting together there, it's very precise, even, even the cracks that come five minutes later in the time lapse seem precise and not chaotic or whatever. And I just, I don't know, I think that that's a very, I don't know how anybody, even if you're not interested in Hollywood, like, just from a filmmaking thing, it's kind of like when you listen to a song that is just very well produced and like, the audio is very like, I don't know how you wouldn't have an appreciation for that. There's like a level of skill and it feels like every moment in this movie is exactly what this director wanted. And I think that's pretty, yeah, I was, I always appreciate that. No, that's interesting. And that's an area to look at as far as when you make satire, how much are you, are you mocking things or you work that like, and with, with, with Frigé and a filmmaker that's making films like, making films in general, obviously they must have a passion for filmmaking and film, like what the, what comes with that as far as the world around them or whatnot. They don't necessarily need to respect it, but they certainly have a perspective on things. So seeing the kind of seeing a film, female filmmaker take Demi Moore and put her in this kind of scenario, there's obviously points that are being made, can be made, will be made, but there has to be a fun that comes with that given all of the stuff that he puts both of these women through throughout the film. And that again, I feel comes from just wanting to, you know, play in the mud, you know, getting this, getting this world and have this kind of fun. I will note by the way, on the top of Frigé's Wikipedia page, her influences are Cronenberg, Carpenter, Lynch and Hanneke, obvious, like none of those are bad things at all. Just like, yeah, it's just like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like, yeah, that tracks, like, yeah, that's, yeah. Step back to the other points you're making about like what the, what kind of audience is receptive to a film like this? I obviously can't speak to everybody. I will say younger people go to the movies more, so they're the ones mainly seeing this movie right now. I think the better question is the gendered aspect of this, or the male audiences that are watching this would be more responsive than the female audiences. Not just because of the body horror of it all, but in terms of, is there a natural inclination to think, well, it's a woman director, and therefore the things that she's putting on display, I can rally behind because it must be, it must be, you know, good for my sensibilities to say I agree with this while also being entertained by this shockingly violent and very provocative film, like, I'm not trying to diminish the quality of what a viewer thinks of a movie based on this kind of thing, but I do think that question occurs when you're looking at, you know, Demi Moore in market quality in a film like this, doing the things that they do, while also saying feminism, like, I will say though, don't you think that it's interesting if you did not know who made this movie, and you're only seeing the first half of the movie, the first half of the movie, it sort of, I mean, I think it, I mean I'm a guy, but I feel like the movie does sort of almost want to trick you with a presumed male gaze, and it is very sexualized, very, I guess pleasing to the eye, but the part of me is like, if a guy had made this movie, that first half, I feel like we would be like, well, this is still just serving the male audience and everything, like, or do you not think so? I think the second, the back half sort of, you know, betrays that, it basically is like, you've enjoyed so much of this, and now I'm going to put you through the mud and the dirt and the chaos and everything of that, I mean, the shove it in your face, like, there's for sure a means to an ends as far as what it's doing, and yes, it's a whole experience. So like, you know, watching this in chunks on Netflix, I don't think we're doing this so many favors, it's tough to say, because it's, when you're tackling this kind of subject matter and these kinds of visuals, there's always a difference when it comes to what a male filmmaker is doing versus a female, if you like, it's doing, because they have different perceptions of what eroticism is, what have you, and I feel like that's, that can be plenty evident when you watch certain kinds of films and, like, see the approach that they take, and that's just speaking to male and female. I mean, there's a whole variety of ones form and how they look at things or what have you. Would I say that this movie is leaning into a certain, you know, I mean, in an obvious sort of way, yes, as far as what's presented in front of you on screen, like, there's no doubt an audience that's going to respond, you know, have a certain kind of response, or at least a certain kind of emotion attached with these things does. And now we're just two guys talking about this, it's hard to be like, but what is the female side, it's like, I have no idea, I mean, I'm aware that more of the rotten reviews that are out there, I'm not going to say it's an even split by any means, it's not, it's a well-reviewed movie overall, but I have seen, you know, female critics taking more issue with this movie than the male, than the male critics, as far as ratios are concerned. I mean, to be fair, her first movie, I think it's her first movie is Revenge, right? Yes. And that movie is a, you know, rape, violent, like, I mean, yeah, I mean, she literally is doing with a thing that a lot of, I mean, people in general today, but especially like, I would think a lot of like women don't necessarily want to see those things. And to be fair in the movie, the actual scene is off screen, but I mean, so she from the very beginning, she's kind of a provocateur where she's like, well, I'm going to take this thing that is kind of unseemly, and that a lot of women don't like in society. Now we don't really like that, like kind of stuff. And so even there, I was like, well, I'm kind of prepared for her to go someplace because she already sort of did with her last movie, you know? Yeah, we have to take a diff, I mean, I haven't seen Revenge yet, like I still haven't seen that movie. So it's like, oh, well, you know, the premise though, I know the premise, but like what I was saying is not everyone's going to know that, right? Not everyone's going to be in that kind of role in place, but with that said, this movie, regardless of like the content that you're getting, especially early on, it's not as though the film is like not making you aware of the kind of movie it is from the get go in terms of the way we're seeing things, the way Dennis Quaids introduced, where he's like, get these nasty closes of him eating shrimp in a restaurant, it is disgusting. Like, I think the film does have a way of balancing the grossness of everything taking place with, with what comes with having these specific people, you know, being presented as they are. And even when that's the kind of center focus of the film, it's still a body horror movie. I mean, Margaret Qualley's entrance into this world is not simple. So it's like, if there's a, you know, that's if anything, it's just letting the movie breathe for a bit to say, okay, let's settle down from the ruptures of skin and various forms of Cronenbergian level disgustingness and just like be paused for a second. Like if the, you know, if the balance of that is, and now this is how this is how everything looks now, it's like, not only is that, you know, a relief from the body horror of it all, but it's also a, and this is the kind of movie we are, this is a movie that's saying this person, Debbie Moore is too old, regardless of what you think of Debbie Moore, like she just does something to belong. And now we have Margaret Qualley, who does belong, it's making that very clear by saying there it all is right there. And in doing so, it's also like, it's gross, I like to think about all of this stuff. Like, I don't think it's, I don't think it's letting you off the hook, I guess, in that first half by, you know, presenting things that are more inherently, you know, exciting to see compared to the most gross stuff possible in the latter. No, it's not, it's, it's funny, the other thing I was thinking of, which sort of like under the skin, is that like, I feel like a lot of times when we, especially as like people film, people appreciate film and write about film and stuff, is that like, typically we tend to go towards things that are subtle, whereas things that are broad, you know, we don't, a lot of times critics don't necessarily like love, even though a lot of mainstream audiences like love it and they completely respond to it or whatever, like a lot of times I think people who write about movies and see movies all the time are kind of bored by something that seems so broad and obvious. And it's funny, because like this movie is not subtle at all, like, it's not really a subtle movie, like, but it's very engaging in stuff and it's like, it's just so confident in it's everything, it's framing, it's sound design, that I can't help but like be kind of swept away. I agree. Even though it's not really subtle. Yeah. I agree with that in regards to this film. I would say to speak to that last point, I can agree to a point in that I think many critics are convinced that they're supposed to respond to things that are subtle while audiences are convinced that they're supposed to respond to things that are broad otherwise, otherwise they'll say we're not snobby like critics and critics will say we're not idiots or whatever. We're not morons like general and those are generalizations and stereotypes. Of course. Right. Then you look at the films that come out in a given year and what's being responded to it. I mean, Spielberg's not subtle, I mean, it's like, um, Scorsese is not necessarily subtle. Um, I mean, everyone mocks the damn rat that walks across the screen and departed. I mean, like the subtlety is not necessarily, you know, the, the winning formula to making the best film of the year, nor is being overly broad, uh, the only way to win over a general audience. Again, I speak to that decent of a score for this movie where it's like, no, this movie is not subtle whatsoever, at least in its broader range of things. I feel like there is, there are subtleties to some of what it's saying. It's just never, it's, it's rarely presented as such. Um, and I think that comes down to performance. I think what like, especially, you know, given the kind of Oscar buzz that Demi Moore is starting to generate here, whether or not that actually turns into an Oscar, I'd be surprised, but I do think that comes down to not just the obvious shock value aspects of what her character goes through, but choices that she is making as an actor is that speak to what talent she does possess outside of the, you know, what, what she's overtly presenting or what not. Right. Yeah. And that's why you get that conversation to begin with because she's doing a good job and not just being a tool to be used for this movie. I mean, yeah, I guess there's a, I guess to me, like, subtle can very much, what is subtle can very much like, uh, seep into what is more like what we now call like a vibes movie. Um, like under the skin or Michael man's Miami vice, like the plots in the big points are not subtle, but they're both films that rely heavily on like, wordless moments of sound designer score and landscapes and, and, and yes, you can, might be like, what's going on here? Like type of vibe, I guess, well, I don't think this movie's like that, but I mean, though, because it's too beyond just being too extreme in its content. It's also propulsive. It moves for being a two and a half hour movie. It has a lot of does within that time. Yeah. Absolutely does. Um, but yeah, I really like, you brought up something that I, I want to discuss, which is that like, um, I, I liked, uh, I mean, Demi Moore, I think it's fantastic and, you know, like there's a big scene that we can get to that is probably the big scene for her. She gets the Oscar nomination, but, um, I got to say, like, I have always found, um, physicality, um, very, I don't know if it's bringing us back to vaudeville and like chaplain era or whatever, but like someone like Margaret Qualley, who started off as like, I think a ballet dancer that like, that's what she's going to go to school for. And then something happens where she doesn't do that. And then she becomes an actress, um, I think dialogue wise, I think Qualley has really evolved probably once upon a time in Hollywood on, um, I think earlier stuff I always was like, well, but she always had it like a physicality about herself because she's a former dancer and everything. And I would say this movie and, um, uh, Yaga or something, uh, kinds of kindness, that's another one where her physicality, like the way she can like move her body or her body is being moved for her, um, it's a lot of interesting choices because I tend to think a lot of time when we think of choices, my thing is usually, um, is an actor who's in a David Mamet play or something like the line is, you know, will you go to lunch? And it's like, it's such a simple thing. And then someone can say in all these millions of like Kevin's canceled, you know, can't canceled Kevin Spacey in these different ways, you know, Gary Glen Ross reference to regardless. It's just a good line. We got a lunch. It's a great lot. Yeah. But I do think that there are 17 times in the movie. You're right. You do. Yeah. But I do think that like, to the Cality is very important. And I think that someone like Qualley is with like, especially this kind of role, you know, which leads into body horror, but it also has to lean into this notion of like, beauty as a commodity and everything, like she does a pretty remarkable job. And again, it is all the choices that both of these performers are making. Oh, I mean, and then it's quite third are making too. I think that that's very like pretty compelling when someone can do that. Um, so I just wanted to say, I like that you said choices because I do, I agree. I think this is a movie that's a lot like that. No, you're not wrong. And I, I do agree between this and kinds of kindness. It's a lot of specific kind of uses that she's being, she's putting herself through and it speaks to her choices as a part, as an actress. I mean, there's, if you're, you know, one of the it girls of the moment and the, this is a film that certainly reflects on that very obviously, you could choose to do the lesser kinds of stuff, whether it's, you know, the comic book movies or the broad comedy things that are offered to, I assume, only on Netflix, um, or you could work with, you were just a slantomos and Quentin Tarantino and a Coen brother. Right. Like, I mean, there's, there, you know, that's, that's tailoring yourself to a certain kind of thing. Let's not forget that a lot of kinds of kindness. You also took a basketball to the face and poor things or whatever, which was hilarious. Oh, that's right. Yeah. The replacement for Emma Stone, it just like takes a ball in the face and it's one of the funniest things in the movie. Right. That's true. Um, well, you know, I was just thinking of our, the notion of subtlety and choices. I think it's interesting that long legs and kuku came out within weeks of each other or whatever, because like, cuckoo is all about honors, Shafer, a lot of it through, there's physicality, but a lot of it through dialogue and like the vernacular, making choices to make her character seem like an authentic teen. And then you have Micah Munro in long legs, who I guess we would call that kind of a subtle performance, because it's a performance that's really relying upon a last minute revelation that is like, Oh, that's why the character seems so reserved. That's why this person doesn't seem. And she has to play it that way. And at first glance, you're kind of like, well, she's just such a stoic FBI agent or whatever. I just, I don't know. Actually, I mean, now that I'm saying that, I was like, wow, there's a lot of kind of interesting performances by a lot of actresses this year, and I'm not saying that that doesn't happen every year. But I mean, yeah. In horror movies, which is always the case. Yes. That is true. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. And rarely recognized on a grander level. Yeah. Yeah. To speak to long legs really quick. What could call it subtle, I suppose, although I think it's a pretty nerdy performance that you know, has your attention. It is. But you don't really know. I don't think. That's what he's saying. It's over the top or hammy or anything, it's just more like I'd be like outside of the stuff with Cage, she's the main focus of that movie. You're always aware of the things she's doing, because she's making a lot of choices. Correct. Right. You know, it's not, I don't know, it's not, I can't think of a better example read. I don't know. Like, like Jamie Lee Curtis in the first Halloween, where she's basically a wallflower until she's not anymore. Regardless, no, you're not like the, the point about subtlety versus versus, you know, ever broad. I mean, this movie is called the substance, yet it's so highly stylized. That's not by accident. Right. Yeah. That's, that's not, that's not a revelation by anybody. It's more like, yeah, we're, we know what we're doing here, which I think again speaks to the kind of bludgeoning of the themes in certain areas when it comes. Can I ask you? Yeah. I, I said, I, I, my last review on We Live Entertainment was for a movie called My Old Ass, which is with Aubrey Plaza and Maisie Stella, something Stella. And these are both movies where two different performers are kind of playing the same person. Yeah. But what I, one of the things I spoke about about My Old Ass was I was like, you know, it's kind of refreshing. I haven't, I don't know the last time I've seen a really kind of fun story that we would that I would consider magical realism and magical realism is usually when you have some weird fantastical element, but the movie has no interest in really explaining like the science of it all. This movie, the substance is interesting because it also has no interest in explaining how this miracle drug does what it does. However, unlike My Old Ass, this movie is very much hinged upon. The audience needs to know what its specific rules are. You know, it's seven days. You can't do, you know, you, you cannot deviate from what we're telling you ever or else the consequences happen. In something like My Old Ass, they're not really as concerned about that. It's very lighter and more dialogue heavy, kind of sentimental, like kind of movie, but this movie, very always focused on like this voiceover that's telling, you know, that's telling Elizabeth Sparkle, you must adhere to these rules. And at the same time, it's not really interested in the science of how does this work or whatever. And in both of them, you just kind of go with it, right? I'm still going a step further, right, because like, this movie is not magical realism. This movie is... No, it's not. Like I'm saying, yeah. Like you said, it has very specific parameters in mind, and unless you want like a four-hour lecture from a scientist to tell you why it works the way, I mean, there's not much else it can do to expand upon that. Magic realism, yeah, I mean, My Old Ass certainly applies in that way, and that's something I like about that movie. The fact that it does have a kind of magical element that's just exists and the focus of the plot. You know, somehow about the teen returns. There's no, there's no, there's no stakes in regards to Aubrey Plaza existing in this society. Correct, right. Right. I mean, I do see magical realism presented in films, I mean, Bo is afraid from last year's back to where it was, oh, yes, yeah, yeah, I would jump back, yeah. It's a common thing. It's not always in like the most mainstream of films, and also I see just a shit ton more movies than you do, but I mean, it is something I like to see because yes, there's when it comes to like, you know, seeing movies and admiring them not for the imaginary stakes they want to present or whatnot, like seeing what other angles it has. There's a fascination there because it's just, it feels like it's straying from the norm, a reason why I like My Old Ass the way I do. I think it's a coming of age story that's kind of standard when you put a break it down, but it has elements that I think make it more winning like, yes, having one's own self coming to visit them with no real rhyme or reason to why just yeah, that's how it is. Right. I guess Charlie Kaufman would be kind of magical realism very much, you know, he's using it. He's using it to kind of highlight absurdity, you know, especially in his, in the being Joe Malkovich and stuff, like, but you're right, we don't really care about how all this happens. That's the way that he walks the same line because some of his movies are more overly dealing specifically with like how this thing like eternal sunshine, how this thing works. That's true. Eternal sunshine. Yeah, that's true. And it's a major aspect of the plot line as opposed to just things exist the way they are because that's the way they are with this movie getting into kind of that aspect of it. I did like that I had such a, I like the film makes it very clear how this all works early on. So you're never going to be. I think that, you know, if you have films like this that want to establish certain stakes or what have you, I appreciate when it can like make it so clear why this thing, you know, what this thing is, what it's going to do and goes off from there and this movie certainly has consequences that come from not abiding by said rules and what have you. And that's also very fun to see play out as it can be. Now we've talked a lot about kind of the front have this film and like the initial, you know, the setups and what that did. Did you enjoy, how did you react to like where this film goes and it's, you know, further on in the story? Well, it's funny. I've been working at my review for this and I wasn't sure because I don't want to spoil movies, but the last act, okay, so the movie, I mean, this isn't a spoiler. The first part of the movie is Elizabeth and then you meet Sue and then become Sue and so you're like, okay, that's the two characters. That's why they get a title card. There is a third title card. And what I find interesting, but I actually feel like it would be maybe more interesting like maybe talking to you and stuff is that like in a podcast forum is that what happens in that third act, I saw in a video game, maybe five or six years ago and I have seen other mediums movies, television take that. So when you get to that moment, I'm like, oh, they're doing this. They're doing that thing like, why are they doing that thing? I sort of get in the context of this movie, they are, but I'm, I'm always kind of interested in culturally like, why filmmakers or gameplay, whatever artists seem to lock on to a certain thing, because it's so much like, and I'm pretty sure you've played this game, but I mean, like it, it is so much in the game, I think it's the last 10 minutes of the game. But like, I'm like, why, I'm like, what is it in this last past half decade that certain people use that narrative to kind of bring everything to a boil to a chaotic conclusion? I just, I don't know. I think that's interesting. I wasn't sure how much the same the review though, because if you know what a game I'm talking about, and then you read the review, you're like, oh, so that's the end of the movie. Like, and I was like, well, I don't want to ruin it, but I think that's an interesting conversation. That makes sense. I mean, now I got to know what game you're talking about. And I'll ask you after this, but I'm right because I have an idea. What you know what the end is of the movie, but I'm trying to think of like, what game this corresponds to because it's huge. It's very specific. Actually, I think some people have said that that ending in the game is harkening back to like, Japanese anime, like Akira, and maybe a Miyazaki movie. Yeah, I can see it like, yeah, it's not just this movie. I can think of a lot of things that it's referencing or whatnot. What I like about where this thing goes is it's taking steps to deliver on a kind of what if a set of parameters like, since we've been so geared to understand how the substance works, you're not while you're watching everything else unfold, you have to be wondering in the back of your head, but what if they do this or what if they do that? And the film is like, we're going to show you what happens if you break certain rules or do certain things the wrong way or what have it really wants to deliver on that. And within those moments, that's where I'm like, okay, so I'm still trying to appreciate the satirical elements of all this and what it's parroting and what it's what it's attacking in the realm of Hollywood and so every culture would have you. But I'm also like really rooted in just my own human nature of being like, don't do this. That's going to have a bad effect on you. I don't want to see parm come your way. But I also kind of do because I want to see what it's going to look like. So the fact that it's stimulating my brain in a variety of ways, that's just that's a lot of fun and the fact this movie by the very end is like, it just throws a lot out the window is like, and now this and it's becomes chaos to say the least. Yeah. All right. I'm into that. I mean like, anybody who doesn't like horror films will always say, not everybody, a lot of people who don't like scary movies, they will be like, I don't understand why and they're the girl who's only in your underwear decides to go to the basement when it's dark at night. It's like, why would you do that? What an idiot or whatever. And I'm like, and I'm like, yes, there's a rationale there that it's like, why would you do this or whatever? But like you just said, I understand the rules. I know you shouldn't break the rules, but I kind of want to see you break the rules. It's like, yeah, I mean, it is kind of the genre. So if you tell me it has to be seven days, you have to do this. I'm like, well, obviously we're going to break that rule like and see what happened. I mean, yes, if you watch these movies, you know, it is inevitable, you know, that it's going to happen. And our enjoyment is to see when they break that rule, what they've come up with. And I think they come up with some pretty good stuff like this. There's an aspect that I really enjoyed where a notable thing takes place during this finale that said it like a major television production and a care, a main character has to kind of. It's so silly has to kind of work their way through a number of people would have you without really like giving away the fact that something's drastically changed them and they're able to pull that off and then provide a reveal in front of a large population. And that speaks to it that speaks to exactly what I'm saying as far as yeah tires fully in place. It is fully embracing that this is a world that does not exist, but we're in this heightened to say the least stylized reality where a number of events could play out with somebody getting through all of that and not no one else being the aware. And then just fully going full tilts and going as disgusting as possible with the results of all of us. So interesting because when that moment happens when you think the person is going to be revealed and then these other people just go along with it you're like what like my first instinct was I was like wait this isn't a it's all a dream thing is it I'm like it can't be that I was like this is too extreme or whatever yeah it's too easy it can't be that. But I'm like how is no one else noticing this like how but yeah I thought the same thing you did. Some other just other things I know before you just going to wrap up the other things I like just kind of note that I like about this. I like the use of billboards and paintings and posters this movie. There's a notably large billboard that's like right outside of the sparkles fabulous apartment. Yes that is a constant kind of theme in the film that I enjoy. Also her painting also the painting is kind of like reverse Dorian Gray. Yeah exactly. Right. Yeah there's a there's a repeated hallway we see often that's filled with different posters and I think it's very there's a lot of like that always reminds me of more did she say her influences Cupric because that reminds me of like shining. Not specifically but I mean it's very the color style color palette yeah it's it's very obviously it's like yeah it's not it's not subtle what that's doing it even like Dennis quade's various suits are always like a lot of this garish colors and what have you. I would say credit to you know obviously the movie is is more and quality and they're they're incredible but I will kind of credit to quade and just like how in a Maxine it's me a goth who's fantastic but I do appreciate Kevin Bacon I thought he was great but yeah so it's kind of fun to see these like these older veteran actors like just really take the scenery chewing terrible people like roles like I'm like oh yeah that's a nice that's a nice pairing of these two that there's a separation where it's he's like it is scenery chewing but for one thing it's by design it's not like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah I know you're not saying that but I don't mean it's a slam no I don't think I don't think you do but I do appreciate that it's you know it's not just quade be like I guess I'll do my thing it's like he's being told to do a very specific thing and he's like let's go and he does it and it's very effective like it's very like you know I like quade fair enough he's not my favorite actor he's hard he's hardly a terrible actor he's just a good performer I generally like seeing but like watching him here is like he's embracing this with all he needs and it's working really well it's giving me the exact feeling of what I'm supposed to get from this kind of a guy well I will say one of the last things I want to say before we wrap up to is honestly of the three I am not I'm not necessarily a huge Demi Moore like I don't think I've ever seen St. Almost Fire I liked Ghost you know like it's not a highlight for her say it almost like no but it's a pretty popular iconic movie like I mean I don't know why I'm not a huge like GI Jane I don't really remember that like I mean so we're so going into this I really love quality I love quade and I was like okay so Moore is the lead but she's yeah she's great and she's she's had a perfect time in her career in her real life to do this kind of role obviously but yeah she's terrific I mean I'm gonna I'm gonna hate I'm gonna hate how cliché it is to say it's brave but it is brave to kind of it is for someone specifically like Demi Moore who's cool you know much of her curse not just her career but her celebrity is based around her looks and she has to put all vanity off everything has to be thrown out the window for her to repair she looks fantastic for her age she looks amazing I mean just for any age she's like 61 she looks incredible like million years million years though exactly like this is like this revelation that someone that has the money knows someone that has the money knows how to take care of themselves that's great for them correct what I'm saying is you know she's not an A-list star anymore as far as the kinds of roles she's getting she you know when she acts right it's not it's not big prestige dramas or what not it's a random crap that you don't really care about so by default this is easily her best thing in decades I would agree that I'm not the biggest fan of Moore as far as I don't look back at her past films be like those are some real classic that she's been a part of she's been a part of good movies no doubt I mean that you know you mentioned ghost of what's right a few good men obviously she has notable parts of her career but in terms of her giving a performance that's gonna be memorable I think there's gonna be one that's more memorable than this that's not I agree that's not baked that's not baked around the inherent nostalgia of her making you know a clay and that's why it's lazy or whatever and that's why it's the best of the decade for Peter Paris there you go I'm sorry I have to go no it's fine you can wrap up the substance it's in theaters right now it's doing that that's doing not bad for a movie release on a small no no no no wait wait wait let's go see this movie as soon as possible if you can on the big screen the sound design that everything about it works and it works also with a crowd because of that he I think sometimes movies like this work benefit with the crowd because of its satire quality there's always a chance if you watch it by yourself and you somehow don't get it then those jokes don't land and I think a crowd kind of embraces the absurdity and the weirdness of it so I see I say see it like if I said specifically I would say see it like in a midnight like a late show feels like a late night and even though it's two and a half hours I promise it doesn't feel like two and a half hours I entirely agree with everything you just said I think that's a very good way to see this movie it's certainly worth watching but yes a crowd element it's too entertaining to not have that so that okay so Peter thank you we're gonna be able to find more of you online oh I'm on my socials as pajama with an ooh I write for we live entertainment and I have a YouTube channel that I haven't done in forever but it's also under Peter Paris great Peter thank you very much for talking to this yeah thanks for having me on happy to have you here and yeah that's good to do thanks nice. 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