[music] Hello, and welcome back to another Good Trash Garbage Shoot. Finally, I've been itching, folks, to talk about this movie, and I'm finally able to, uh... This episode, we're going to be covering the Netflix hit Rebel Ridge from writer-director Jeremy Saunye, he of Blue Ruin and Green Room, a filmmaker that we've covered with much love here at Good Trash Media, and I've been greatly looking forward to this film ever since I became aware of it. It's had a long sort of road to ho to get to screens, but it did it. Saunye again, this is his second team up with Netflix after "Hold the Dark" a few years ago. That's an interesting one. You know, always, always love to see each other. I get to do some cool shit. Always love to see a Scars guard be evil, but that was a film that I, you know, I struggled to connect with, but Rebel Ridge is a film I watched twice in a week. I couldn't get enough of it, and I've been dying to find some folks to talk with me about it, and wouldn't you know it? The hosts of the cinematic schematic themselves, Caleb Masters and the Ron Chapman, and kind enough to join me today. How you doing fellas? Good. I'm meeting you on the bridge, sir. Dalton's doing great, man. Thanks. As always, thank you all for the enthusiasm for Saunye. I have to admit this movie was not on my radar until all of a sudden it was, and then you along with about an army of people texting me be like, Caleb, so what do you think of this movie? Are you gonna do a podcast about it? And then, lo and behold, Dalton says, garbage shoot? Hell yeah. Yeah, I thought you might be down. So yeah, we are here to talk about 2024's Rebel Ridge, a Netflix film. You can watch it right now. What is the film about? It stars Aaron Pierre as a former US Marine Corps enlistee officer. They don't ever get into his former rank, do they? Other than, you know, what he did, do they say his rank when they read his rap sheet? Anyway, not important. What is the point he's on Wikipedia, though? He's on Wikipedia page from Marine Corps martial arts program. Goodness. Yeah, so Aaron Pierre runs a foul of some corrupt cops in Louisiana, led by Don Johnson as the sort of nefarious chief of police. And he falls victim to a civil asset forfeiture scam that this police department's running. And it becomes this sort of mixture of first blood by way of Michael Clayton as Sonya's planet, which I think is a really fun descriptor for the film. And so definitely, Sonya knows what movie he has made, his influences are not something he's shy about for this one. And I think that two great tastes that go great together, I would say. But I kind of want to start this conversation off. Maybe we can get later into the production of this movie, but just to lay some groundwork. What are your relationships to Sonya? What are your relationships to some of the other players in this film, if you have relationships with Pierre or Johnson? Where are you guys coming to this? What do you bring into it, Lauren? I am generally familiar with Sonya. I definitely saw Blue Ruin, and I definitely definitely saw Green Room several times. So that's pretty much my understanding of his filmography. But what I'll say is I was grossly uninformed about this movie even being on his filmography. I thought it was just some run of the mill, maybe even less than B-movie cop film that just dumped on Netflix. And then just this weird boom of internet, they find a thing and then they zero in on it and it blows up. And once it gets to my ears at that point, then I'm like, okay, I got to see this. Then going back and seeing who directed it, and I was like, oh, I am more interested in it. How did I not know these things? Classic Netflix story. Exactly. And it's just one of those things where it's like, I guess there wasn't marketing for this, because it's going into Netflix, but it's one of those things where that route sometimes can hinder. You know what I mean? Because otherwise, if this had gone to theaters and I'd gotten the normal conversation around who direct this and everything, then I would have probably been all in to go see it in that experience. And so it feels like I'm glad that it came around into my focus, but otherwise would not have heard about it. So yeah, gosh, now defunct back to the movies, we did a review of Green Room back in 2016 and we all really dug it. I think I've re-washed it once since then. And I think it's a phenomenal movie. It's super intense. It's super gory. Anton Yelkin, may he rest in peace, great lead. I really liked that movie, which then led me going back to Blue Ruin, which I also really like not as much as Green Room, but it's a very solid movie. Still haven't seen "Hold the Dark" because I heard it was very bleak. And for whatever reason, at that moment, I was like, nah, not today. And then I never got back to it. So I really should go back to "Hold the Dark." And also, you know, big fan of his two episodes of "True Detective" season three, he directed "True Detective" season three. Not nearly as good as season one, but way better than it has the reputation, way better than its reputation would lead you to believe in my opinion. And I think he did some really great directing work that is a very good fit for that specific type of story as well. So I'm a big fan of his. And much like you like, Laurent, I didn't know this movie was even in the pipeline. And it's a catch 22 because on one hand, if it had a traditional theatrical release, which again, solution is Netflix should just do theatrical release followed immediately by streaming, but say it was just in theaters, then you and I would have been getting pumped up about this. It would have been on our counter months in advance. But then a lot of people probably wouldn't have seen it just straight out because it's a guarantee. But it's unlike, I just feel like this is not the type of movie that's going to be a huge blockbuster. On the other hand, it could just as easily have gotten buried on Netflix and no one saw it. But in this scenario, something about the synergy with the algorithm and what people are wanting it hit. So it actually is being seen now by way more people than in my opinion than it would have had it played in theaters. It's the classic Netflix catch 22. It's such a weird ecosystem. They've got over there. Nobody's fucking seen "Hold the Dark" except for freaks like me who love "Green Room" have it in their top 100 movies and we're like, oh, I'm a wall watch, "Hold the Dark" on opening release weekend because I've been following what Sonya's next project was. And then he kind of goes dark. You know, like you said, he was attached to one point to direct all of true detective season three and who wants to work with Nick Pizalato for entire season of television episodes apparently. Certainly not Jeremy Sonya and who can blame him. But yeah, so he kind of goes dark career-wise for a little bit and then, you know, this production gets hit with a COVID delay, gets hit with a replacing of a lead actor delay. Especially John Boyega, right? Yeah. Yeah. So they really just it takes a while to get this one off the ground. And I'm so glad it's having the success it's having. Really surprising. But like I say, it is so you just never know what's going to happen with the Netflix release. And to your guys point about the Netflix stuff getting lost in the shuffle, like they just put out so much and they have so many quality creators and filmmakers and they're stable now, which is so weird to think about it in that way. And that's sort of old school studio way of thinking of like, no, these are Netflix filmmakers. And I guess I would think of like Fincher, Sonya, Kurt Quran, I guess is only made the one. But you know, Scorsese did a Netflix. Obviously, they've got some guys who are making multiple movies for them. But you know, they're they've got big deals with big filmmakers, you know, Gerwig's going over there for Narnia, Jane Campion had a huge success for her first film in decades because of like, and that's the other thing. Netflix will take a risk on all tours. And they're really pushing Oscar campaigns now, like they're putting money behind their projects. And now every year, expect to see a film on Netflix. I will say, a member of Oklahoma Film Critics Circle. So we do have a we do vote every year on best films. We have an awards thing we do every year. And it's not even close. Netflix has the biggest marketing push by like a couple of miles. Yeah, so they're invested in and prestige. Yeah, they want to get their movies in front of critics want to do the for your consideration campaign the whole bit. It's interesting what they choose to be their awards pushes because sometimes they have a few. Yeah. And then you're like, oh, this could go either way. And then they they do they send you everything. But then there's like handful they send you a lot of stuff for. Well, then then like I think last year was interesting, like May December gets no real like theatrical push, but Nia does. So it's it's, you know, I'm always fascinated by what they're doing over there just because it kind of baffles and frustrates me when sometimes it has to do with the filmmakers that working with like, you know, like if you're working with like a Scorsese or something, like you're going to you're going to play it and that you're going to get a different kind of push than, you know, a power the dog sort of thing. So it's yeah, it's it's every a little different with every movie every year. So now business stuff aside, and we kind of gotten that table setting out of the way I do want to talk about the other I think real world table setting that's that's worthwhile for Rebel Ridge. And we've kind of laid out the groundwork for you of what this film is about. But if you don't know what civil asset forfeiture is, you might still be wondering, wait, so what's the movie about Dalton? Well, the civil asset forfeitures when the cops take your money and the burden of proof that the money's legit is on you and in simplest and shortest terms. It's been around for a while. The Marshall service was like the first big beneficiary of it and it was intended to like, you know, deal with cartel money as they talk about Rebel Ridge. But ultimately, it's it's become a much a little nastier tool where you guys aware of this the sort of quirk of the justice system before the film. I was not. And it was actually pretty enraging to watch unfold and to think that they actually have a legal basis to do so. And it just that's I mean, that's definitely like that extra added piece of corruption that exists in our system that again, many people don't know about but should, you know, so yeah. Yeah, here's the thing. I did not know about it. And sadly, I was not surprised. I was like, well, and I was like, this is legal. And of course, I like Google it right after the movie. I was like, Oh, yeah, this is totally legal. I was like, OK, well, that just goes to show you, you know, yeah. So, did not know, but not surprise, sadly. Yeah, listeners who are real deep, good trash media lore heads might know this, but I don't talk about a ton. I was a criminal justice major for a little bit. I was an undergrad. And so, yeah, that was how I became aware of this, you know, over 10 years ago now. And I've just always saw like, wow, that's really weird and fucked up. And it's such a good basis for a sort of railroaded, wronged person narrative. So what you're saying is he made this movie for you? That's sort of the thing, man. Like, I'm such a saun-ye guy. And like, and what is Dalton? No, no, whatever. I get OK, I won't spoil it. 30 minutes in the movie. There's a very specific sequence we will probably throw it later. And I texted Dalton at this point. I said, Dalton, I feel like Jeremy Sonny made this in a lab for you specifically. Well, so that's the other quirk of this is I am sort of a martial arts and combat sports head. And so like the fact that Terry Richmond, the air and peer character, his like whole deal, they think they don't need to be afraid of this guy. They're like, oh, we're not in a Rambo first blood situation. He never saw combat. Well, the trick is Terry Richmond's been trading other Marines how to tie people into pretzels for, you know, 15 years and just got out and is trying to start a business with this cousin. And yeah, so obviously that aspect of it really appeals to me at some level as much as this is like a political thriller, as much as this is like a, you know, wrong man thriller. It's kind of a kung fu movie. Yeah. So I know both of you guys would share my love of sort of fight choreography. I think of you as both of proponents of loving seeing fight choreography done well. Did you guys get excited for like the way this film kind of upends your expectations of what like a quote unquote fight movie can be or should be? Absolutely. Yes, because I, well, again, going into this completely blindly not knowing about, you know, a lot of the things, even the general premise, like the way this movie and I was surprised by a lot of this movie mainly, mainly the fact that knowing the few films that I did know from this filmmaker, really how restrained it is comparatively, you know, to the others. Because the other ones kind of go into the, I won't say exploitative, but grisly brutality. And this one actually has a, has a really deep understanding of violence and like in the consequences of violence. And we do engage with that in more thoughtful ways. And I would have anticipated from a movie like this. So yeah, like those little elements like, okay, it's also a fighting film. It's also it's a cop heist kind of thing. Like, there's so many different like types of genres it is, but it's like the best it takes all the best impulses from all of those different things and makes a really tight tense thriller. You know, that works really well. Well, yeah. And I think it's, you know, you said it well, you know, Jeremy Sonya definitely understands and appreciates violence and how it can be used as a tool in cinema. And I think he subverts his own what you would expect from him by having essentially a protagonist is like, actually killing people's bad. That doesn't mean I can't restrain you or be really smart. It's all as a person who would classify myself as a pacifist, the way this film approaches like, it's a revenge story where there's not actually, yeah, violence that is that is the protagonist commits against the antagonist, which is really, really thoughtful. And also, I think creates an incredible tension because he doesn't, because you kind of figure out for the first sequence, oh, he's not going to use guns or whatever. Yeah, knife to a gun, or at least I shoot someone, at least he, he's not going to hurt someone, I should say, but like, it's, well, here it's somebody. Okay, I'll show you how to, he's not going to kill anybody. He was not going to traditionally shoot someone with a gun that has bullets that will kill them. He's not going to go random. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that creates a nice tension. Like, well, how is he going to get out of this scenario? Like, there's like, there was like, at least three times, they've been like, wow, he's pretty and they have weapons. And he's like, but I have weapons. But I have weapons. I don't know what that you don't know what they are. So that creates a fun tension and dynamic, while also being very thoughtful. And I think sort of really sort of calling out violence is not, there is another way. Yeah, there's a, which I appreciate it. And there's a conversation around that word gets used a lot de-escalation. We say it a lot with police, but now that model has changed or that intent has changed. But now they say that when a police officer draws their weapon now, it is with the intent to kill now. It's not to, you know, and I feel like that's an interesting conversation to be having. Obviously, he embodies, Terry embodies it, but the police station that the police precinct here is not, you know, so I think this is a really good place for us to pivot to something I was excited to talk about. First off, I love that you both have identified this sort of trend and saunye movies of violence being very serious, whether it's, you know, a grizzly death, or, you know, a jiu-jitsu slam. Violence is handled with weight, right? Obviously, Blue Ruins, this revenge thriller about how a regular person, you know, simply can't go on a rampage. That's just not the movie rampage to avenge your fallen loved ones, ends in disaster. Green Room is sort of this siege movie, but it's very much set in the real world of, like, okay, if you're in this siege, you're probably not walking out unscathed. And so it's been interesting, as saunye has said in an interview, that he was what he was going for was like a challenge to himself of, can I write a movie where I don't kill everyone? Can I like preserve life? Because, and I think it's such an interesting sort of corrective to hold the dark, which goes even bleaker and darker than Green Room. And so for the next project to be this interesting pivot that says, as sort of Laurent, as you were saying, it's going to take violence even more seriously and say, like, there's such a human cost to this that all costs we must preserve life, which is a really interesting sort of philosophy for an action film to have, especially an action film that's sort of about the difference between state violence and civilian violence. And sort of Laurent, you talked about how often we sort of use words like violence and de-escalation, and how these words have different meanings in different contexts. And sort of what we legitimize certain forms of violence and delegitimize certain forms of violence. And it depends on who the actors are. And different people have different thoughts on who's a good actor and who's a bad actor. And I don't mean for this, you know, podcast conversation about a fun Netflix thriller to kind of turn into a big geopolitical conversation. But it's an inherently political conversation, I would argue. And I think it's a political film. So I think we would be doing a disservice to not get into this. Maybe not overtly, but it's there. It's definitely in the DNA. Police brutality is for better and, well, no, for worse, just frankly, for worse. I mean, it's never better worse. It's worse. It has been in becoming a politicized conversation, unfortunately. And this movie, I think, addresses it head on. I think you're right, Laurent, to kind of to check that, though, because it isn't overtly political. And that's sort of its strength. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's not preachy, but it's very, it makes you engage with ideas that we've heard about, but not in the context we're used to seeing them, you know, so yeah. Actually, but when I say it's political, I think this story is inherently political, but I do not think the movie, like you said, it's not preaching, are you? It's just telling a story based on real laws that exist in our world today. It reflects the reality that we live in. Absolutely, yeah. You know, I think as a storyteller, as a writer, you know, he knows the themes he's playing with, but I think he also knows his place is like, you know, as a white dude who's also a filmmaker being like, like, I'm telling this story about a black man who's been wronged by small town police. Like, nobody needs me to get up on a soapbox. Like, I'm just here to make a lean mean thriller, and you can kind of fill in the subtext on your own, because he takes those things seriously. Like, the history of America is taken seriously without, like, nobody, there's no monologues, right? Nobody has like this big moment where they're like, and this is why this is part of the history and fabric of America down to its core. But you don't really need to. There's like one line, right, where Terry and we haven't even talked about, you know, Sofia Rob's character, who's a very, very huge part of this movie. I'm very good. Yeah, I agree. I really, she, you know, I heard somebody say that she adds the texture that is missing and twisters, and I think that's a really interesting observation. Anyway, I just kind of, I didn't mean to get off on my own tangent. I just kind of wanted to lay the groundwork for what I think this film is doing as far as how it engages with politics and this question of violence, and this, and as it pertains to like, you know, larger histories. What did that do for you guys? Where were you at on sort of, you know, I don't know, we've talked about this film taking violence seriously, but how do you see like Terry Richmond's mission and in tactics, I guess? I found his, what I love from the very first scene, because this movie hooked me, because I kept saying like, I was like, I'm going to watch this maybe begrudgingly because I don't know what it is, you know, like, and then, but then very quickly, they establish Terry's character as very astute. He's very, he's very intellectual. He very much understands the law. He knows what he can get away with. He knows how far he can get away. You know what I mean? Like how far like, you know what I mean? He can engage with it and live in that space. Not everyone's going to have that same rolodex of knowledge, you know, that they're equipped with and that adds a little bit of like he's a, he's a formidable foe to them. They're starting to realize that because he's kind of waxing poetics with them. I found that really compelling throughout and just seeing like, as the stakes get bigger and bigger and bigger, how is it going to navigate in this space? I loved, I loved that, that dynamic of it. He's not just some, because typically with movies like this, you would just see a helpless black, you know, character that just doesn't understand any of that. And it's not real, you know, doomed to fail in this system. And here you have someone who understands it very deeply. And so that was really compelling to see too. And also, ask me to engage a little bit deeper with it. In regards to like Anna Sophia, like, I also was worried with that particular character as much as I was enjoying her performance. I was like, I pray they're not going the white savior route with this particular, because that very, it felt like it was teetering on that and it never does. And I was very refreshingly surprised that they pulled back on that as well. She's there in a very meaningful way with the story. But, but Terry is very much driving everything that's happening here. Yeah. And on another tip, like, as much as Terry does nip in a position where he has to save her, they don't really damself and distress her too much. They take her like seriously as a character. Yeah. And I think it's a real partnership that they have. Absolutely. They're very much equals and not, you know, one, you know, in different ways. Yeah. They have different strengths and different, different, yeah. Something else you mentioned about the way like Terry handles things is like, you know, his astuteness of, and his understanding of their motivations, it really does make these conversations as much of a set piece as the fight scenes, which is so cool. I think really of one particular phone call late, late in the movie that Terry has with the Don Johnson character, whose name is escaping the chief. She's sandy burns burns. She burns, of course, twins. Yeah. Just to distinguish him from, you know, the evil burns from the Simpsons, I assume. Also ends with any. You don't see that often. Okay. Anyway, so he calls chief burns and he's, you know, I was never in a street fight before this whole thing. You know, I don't know. I had only ever rolled in the gym. And he says, oh, I had, and Terry's like, yeah, yeah, I picked up on that. And sort of just that little like, these are both men who know how to handle themselves physically, but they have very dear, different experiences of what that looks like. And sort of like the, I feel like that phone calls sort of an encapsulation of like both the, the dialogue action, but also alluding to the physical action in a really interesting way. Caleb, I haven't let you get in on this yet, though. Yeah. I mean, I think the, because Lauren said, I mean, especially when you think about the specific interactions, you guys have hired that really well. I think a thing that I appreciate about the movie, and again, I'm not trying to sit here and say, oh, it's, it's a hyper-political movie. I'm just, it tells a story. And I love how it's grounded in reality in that. You see how these systems inherently are failing everyone, and how certain individuals within said systems who are in this case, that, well, they're, well, they, they both benefit and lose, but they're because of the position of holding Sheriff, they're able to manipulate the system to, to benefit. But again, they're only put in this position because of a lawsuit that had happened previously. Again, sounds like it was a pretty rightful lawsuit, but that kind of gave them leeway to exploit a loophole in the system that would like victimize, I mean, anyone, theoretically, but probably disproportionately a certain type of person, so they could make money. And so I thought sort of tying the, and it was personal, but I also think it was personally motivated. I'm a sheriff. I need a police force. We've got to get money somehow. The system's not getting it to me. We're bankrupt. So what do I do? I just go find punks on the street that I'll just steal money from, essentially. And so it's, it is an institutional problem. That is, but the, the real conflict is personally motivated. So sort of tying and showing the connection between a failing system along with a personally motivated person who's motivations from a business perspective as a guy running a sheriff's department, you're like, well, that all, I love it all makes sense. And it's broken, broken, deeply in a setting. There's no, there's no scenario that's going to benefit Terry's character. There's no way to navigate like, okay, so this has happened to me. Now, what is the legal precedent that I follow in order to get the outcome? Yeah, you're spending as much money. It's not fair. You're going to spend more money. It's rigged so that you can't, you know what I mean? Like, and that's, that's inherently a problem, you know? And so like, if you could just be robbed, you know, off the street, that's that right. But then you get in it. Well, the other thing is you get into the side of the other side of the conversation, which is the police funding side of it, which, which again, this is a, an area that's sort of been bankrupted to do to lawsuits, probably because they're corrupt police organization. You know, I just think all those dynamics are really compelling. And you see how these different stories are at odds with one another and why, and why things happen a certain way. It's not necessarily like, I don't know that Don Johnson is a, I mean, like he's racist, but like, I don't think he's motivated by racism here. I think he's motivated by money at the end of the day, and he's using racism as a tool in order to make them absolutely just compelling. And I think that their knowledge of the law and the loopholes within the law works very similar, I would say, to say a therapist with dubious intent, that you know what I mean? That can manipulate human psychology in their favor because they know how, you know what I mean? Like, being able to do that, knowing that they're not aware of the same kind of things. Like, I know if I present it this way, that I can, you know, garner from you what I need, and it feels that way. Like, we know the system, we know how we know how it's going to be perceived, and we know how to cover that up to make that not look this way, and what have you. And so that that corruption and that kind of unguarded corruption, un-policed reading that. Well, it's not just, and also again, it's not just the police. It ties all the way up to the city politics. So like, it's all kind of, it's got to, it's not the wire, it's not getting that into it, but you can, but you can see it connects the dots the same way the wire does, you know. I think this is a good place for us to be like, if you're starting to get worried about spoilers, I think we're just kind of giving you the shape and the meat of the movie without telling you how these things kind of interlock together. Because there is a joy, I think the, the kind of larger conspiracy is like well constructed and not only constructed well enough for it to like make sense within the text of the film, but also laid out in the explanation to the audience that I feel like, you know, a lot of these kinds of thrillers, I feel like, can lose the audience and laying out what's going on. And I feel like it does a pretty good job of keeping you up to speed. So if we're throwing a lot at you right now and you're getting lost, that's good. It's not convoluted. In the film, we're sort of deliberately omitting stuff that connects stuff together. So you have some surprises in the store for you. And I'll also say that they do a great job at making it accessible to the audience. Because he's constantly hitting these walls and he's calling all these people down. What do I do now? And like, well, here's why you can do this or you can't do that or here's what you need. Like, they do a really good job at like giving you a little breadcrumbs. So it always makes sense by the time you get to the larger picture it all fits together nicely. Well, it adds to that what you guys are talking about right now, just kind of adds to that realism too, right is this idea that Terry isn't in a Rambo film. He's in First Blood. And even more serious than First Blood, he's in Michael Clayton. And he's in he's in a movie world, yes, but it's a movie world that more deeply reflects our own world. And in our own world, you can't just punch a cop. Right. You that that's you get in trouble for that, it turns out. So that can't be your first course of action. I've been told. I've been told. Yeah. I'm getting word. But yeah, so it's interesting how this film like engages with this guy who is so capable of violence and yet knows that that's not really a good option for him. And we get to this pace monologue, which Caleb, you talked about the about 30 minutes in the movie, this comes. And this is sort of the inciting incident. Well, the inciting incidents, the bike getting clipped by the beginning. But sort of escalation. Yeah, sort of. Terry has no choice but to escalate because he's already been escalated on and sort of that's the interesting thing about, you know, Lauren, you mentioned sort of the in our modern context, we as we understand it police are pulling their weapon with intent to kill, which I think takes seriously the idea of the gun entering the equation, right? Obviously, the guns already in the equation because it's on their hip. That's a conversation for another day. But once a gun gets pointed at somebody, the odds of somebody getting shot have exponentially increased. And so Terry is taking the knowledge that these guys could pull guns on him again, because they already have, he's already risked death at the hands of this police department and is like tried his level best to get his cousin safe. And now knows that this this guy has been fucking with him. And so we reach this conflict. And when the guns come out, Terry says no, no, it's not going to be that easy for you. And that moment of him like explaining what's about to happen is such an electrifying moment that I can't wait for people who haven't seen this yet to get there. And I'll go ahead and cut us off there because I think it's an exciting scene to see how it all plays out. I don't want us to tip our hands too much. But with that said, it is for me, one of the moments of the movie. Are there any other big moments without spoiling any surprises for our audience who might not have seen the film yet? Are there any big moments that you want to tell people to kind of be prepared for and look out for that you think are especially like part of the film's fabric? I mean, just any scene at the sheriff's office, any of them, and there are multiple and they're all really good. Even just even just even just some of the dialogue scenes at the sheriff's office are very intense. And that's what I love about this movie is that like even without any kind of gratuitous violence, it's still very tense. Because it really it though the way this this film revs up tension throughout is one of the hugest assets of it is like it doesn't need a whole lot of you know, of nihilistic kind of brutality in it to be engaging and thoughtful. I know that we mentioned the movie doesn't really explicitly deal with race. And I think that's probably a good thing, you know, in this scenario, because it is a larger issue. Race is definitely in a factor in it, you know, like, but it's not something that the film is like making a point about. But I mean, is it though? Like Terry understands it because he is a black man, so he knows how he will fare in the system if he does certain choices. But yeah, but I don't think the I don't I mean, it's just telling I just feel like it's telling a story in which case in the scenario, the racist police force would be racist. Right. So right. It's definitely to his detriment in that way. And I think but I think that's a product of the system so much more than it is about it being like, this is a film about race, you know, for him being a black man. But I think but they very wisely and engage with that in an intellectual and not overt way. But but something that comes to mind, I'm always thinking about with with with films like this in any kind of black man versus a police officer movie. Because again, I growing up with my in my family, my mom always told us from a very, very, very, very young age. And she's an attorney now, but it's just that the world is unfair. And no matter how you look at that, that is the reality of the situation, we could do our best to change it. But at the end of the day, if you get pulled over by a police officer, understand that the laws are not designed for you to succeed or leave that scenario unscathed. So we are aware of that. And we know this now. And so we have to deal with that reality, meaning that even if they do something corrupt, you do not have the privilege to do so also in retaliation to that. Your job as my you being my son, you know, or my kid, you know, like is to get home. We'll deal with the repercussions of what happened after the fact, but you have to survive it first for us to be able to even deal with that in a meaningful way. Because if I lose you, then it doesn't matter if the system screwed, you're gone. You know, so that's that's something that seems to be his internal logic throughout the entire process. And so that's what I mean, where it's dealing with race, but not necessarily, that's it's kind of more implied than it is in the, you know, is going in that the odds are wildly stacked against him. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, as we said, it's, you know, it's, it's very subtextual in a way that I think benefits the film. And yeah, I think we're on we've we've talked about it kind of the way that I mean, we've just now gotten into it more explicitly than the film does. But I think I think you're right that the film has that context in its mind, for sure, because it isn't until a move is made on his life that Terry goes, okay, well, I guess I have to like commit. I guess I'm in in for a penny in for a pound. I have to see this through. Yeah. Because like they're not going to leave me alone. Yeah, it's a very exciting film. And I think we we've sort of just barely scratched the surface on sort of the larger socio-political issues that just really make it a deep and rich text while also, you know, not taking away from what a fun, thrilling action adventure thriller it is, not to say thriller a thousand times. But I don't know what else to call it because it's it's not quite an action movie. That's sort of a stretch. It definitely has cool action beats, but it's it's it's not that exactly. And I don't want to miss sell it any. I think thriller is pretty broad. Yeah. So that can encompass action all kinds of things. So thriller is pretty solid. I guess we'll we'll start bringing this train into the station. Do you guys have any final thoughts about Rebel Ridge that you want to make sure people are kind of aware of it? They haven't seen it or just maybe even a thought for people who have seen it that you want to make them, you know, consider the film more deeply in any any big notes before we close out? I think the one thing I just want to say is I was a and I love I really love the movie. I I think it's very watchable. You know, I watched it without my wife thinking that she wasn't gonna be interested. But I mean, it was like, I think you'd really like this. We should watch this again. We haven't done it yet. But, you know, it's one of those like I immediately like, okay, I would definitely watch this again and recommend to most people. Frankly, I'd recommend most people who are in for a good time. It's very valuable. I can see why it's popped a hit on Netflix. The ending was a little muddled for me. It does not ruin the movie by any means. I did get a little confused in the last 10 minutes about how things were resolving. And it was sort of just, I don't know if there was something lost on the editing room floor or if it was at a script level, but I was a little left a little unclear on the mechanics of how it gets to the station at the end. I proved that something. It didn't ruin the movie, though. Because ultimately, I think the destination was always the destination was gonna get to that. It was there was a little, it's the how. It's the how and why. Yeah. Yeah. Also, guys, Don Johnson, wouldn't you know it? So good at playing dirty, nasty, awful cops that are also still on the surface very polite and you just hate it. Laurent, anything? Well, if you haven't seen it, see it. Because I mean, I'm just gonna shout from the group talks. You should watch it because it's one of the best things on Netflix right now. And once every now and then we get something like this here, but there's a lot of schlock that you have to go through. You know, they pump a lot of garbage on there. This is not, hence, this is a garbage shoe, but this is not applied. But this movie is garbage. You should definitely check it out. Yeah, I'm obviously a big fan of this one and happy to have brought you to into the fold and have you also sharing the word because there is so much on Netflix, as you said, and it's, you know, I think one of our jobs is critics, like, you know, the job is changed. It's not about telling people what they should go see on Saturday night on their date. You know, it's it's more about like you have the entire width and breadth of movie history available to you, you know, stands a lot of stuff, obviously, or, you know, the internet offers you a lot of options, let's say. And so, you know, it definitely feels like it becomes our job to sort of say, hey, by the way, don't forget about this. And I'm glad to have more people saying that because, and I'm glad to see Sony have this great success. You know, it was almost, if it didn't quite break the all time record, I think, but it definitely broke some records. I don't have the numbers. Two weekends in a row, number one movie on Netflix, which is no small feat. It's very hard to hold that position. It came very, I think if it had done a third, it was going to break some other record, but it didn't do a third, right? So not to bet. Yeah, no, it was two weekends in a row, but it stayed in the top 10. Yeah. So I don't want to back it all too much. I know we said nice things. I want to reiterate, Aaron Pierre, for me, was the discovery of the movie. I have not, I know he's in other things. I have not seen that stuff. I haven't seen Underground Railroad, which I also understand he's very good in. I want this guy in more movies. I can't wait to see him. What he does next. Yeah, yeah, he's just immediately electrifying. And like, I like John Boyega a lot, but there's something, and I get like, size-wise, Boyega would have added something very interesting, but because Pierre is so such an imposing physical presence, but has such a gentle demeanor, it really creates this really great sort of just tension that the film feeds on throughout. Any final recommendations? Obviously, we can't recommend people go see this in theaters, but you have any films that you suggest people pair this with and anything that, I mean, you mentioned First Blood, and then I mean, I think some of the influences are there for sure. I mean, if you're, if you, if you like this filmmaker's work, I mean, obviously, there's other things there too, because he's, he deals with corruption in a very unique way. Yes. Even, even green room, you know what I mean? The skinhead psychology and their, their laws and ethics that they operate by in that film also have some interesting things to unpack there. So there's some parallels there between the corruption and the police force and, and this kind of mob mentality, because it is all still very mob mentality. But, I, so I would say, look at his previous work, but also First Blood's a great reference that I didn't pick up on until you said it. Michael Clayton is also great too. Always, Michael. R.I.P. Tom Wilkinson. You know, I, I just had it. Go watch the wire. I mean, if you're like me and you're interested in, wait, this is a real thing. And how does, how does that work? And how are the cops able to get away with this? And you want to dig into that sort of thing and kind of look at how all these dots connect. I mean, I know it's a five season TV show versus a two hour movie, but there's a lot of, and what appeals to me in this movie, not universally, but a big part of the appeal is that it's got that sort of like realism and approach to the story. It's not, I wouldn't say the wires inherently political story on the label either, but it's also clearly talking about things that have been shaped by politics and an interesting compelling way. And I think this mood is a great job at that too. Oh, well, you know, the best political stuff doesn't need to tell you how to feel. It simply shows you things as they are. 100%. Yeah. I would say, if you've watched this film and came away thinking, man, Dakota Johnson's dad rolls a lot of dick swagger for an old guy. I would say go watch 1991's Harley Davidson and the Marlboro man with Don Johnson and Mickey Rourke, an absolutely insane sort of post apocalyptic Neo Western about two guys on motorcycles doing cool shit. Yeah, Don Johnson is ridiculously hot in this movie and says maybe the best thing anybody's ever said in a movie, it's better to be dead and cool than alive and uncool. A philosophy I think we can all live by. Thanks for tuning in to another good trash garbage shoot. Please remember to do all the stuff, rate it, review it, subscribe it, find us @goodtrashmedia on socials, send us your long form feedback to goodtrashgenrecast@gmail.com. And lastly, patreon.com/gtm if you want to help us keep the lights on over here. Caleb when we're on, you guys are serving up incredible shows over on the cinematic schematic. People can find that in their podcatchers pretty much everywhere, right? Yes, sir. And what's your usual drop date on those? I know you guys take a break occasionally. Yeah, we're doing so it's usually three, so we drop on almost, we've gotten it to the point where it's pretty much Wednesdays. Originally, it was two Wednesdays a month. We really have it closer to three or four months. We just try to hit as many new releases as we can, but you're looking out for us Wednesdays Cinemax schematic three a month. And personally, if people want to find you and see what you guys are working on any anything you want to share. I mean, I also have a review, like written film review column, real insights with Laurent Chapman also on the cinematropolis as well. And more in the cinematropolis on all the social media is @letter, see a master's talk, or a letterboxed. But yeah, really the cinematropolis.com is the best place to find us. And our next review, we're actually coming back from a height. This is we're coming back from a hiatus. And outside a little bonus episode, we just recorded just kind of catching everyone up on what we watched on the hiatus. We also were going to be doing a megalopolis review next, and I am ecstatic. Which Francis Ford Coplegas five stars on letterbox in case anyone's caring about his opinion, but his own film. His own film. Yeah, so badass. So metal. So good, dude. All right, well, we're all going to go see megalopolis in like 30 hours or so. So I'm going to go sleep until it's time to watch megalopolis. Thanks so much again, guys, for coming on. And we will see you next time, listener. [Music]
