(upbeat music) Hello, my name is Brad Chad Porter. I'm the general manager at Rodeo Cinema. I wanna talk to you for a few seconds about the Rodeo Cinema Foundation membership program. Rodeo Cinema is Oklahoma City's only nonprofit movie house. We depend on your support beyond your tickets and concessions purchases. To keep the lights on, and to continue bringing you outstanding film programming. We ask you to consider becoming a member. There are several memberships to choose from, with prices ranging from $50 per year to $5,000 per year. Check out your options at Rodeo Cinema.org/memberships. Thank you in advance for your support. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - I love you today. (upbeat music) I love you today. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) ♪ I love you, I'm not afraid of anything ♪ I can't quit you. - Really? - Oh, I've seen you around snakes. - I don't like snakes. I don't like snakes. - Also the most susceptible person to jump scares you'll ever meet. - That's right, yeah. - I know that about him. - What? - I know. - I'm walking with my whole body. - Griffin, really, since I own. Very susceptible to jump scares. - Good, so any time these people act higher than a hoity-toity about a movie-- - These horror heads are actually a little freity cat sometimes. - Yeah, I just gotta lower that over there. - It's some strings really hard. - That's like fun, 'cause it actually, yeah, you invest yourself totally. Give yourself over to the art, man. - Yeah, that's it. - That's what it is. - That's it. - We'll get you guys. Hello, everybody, and welcome again to the Good Trash Honor Cast. We gather around a table. We discuss the films you'll never discuss in a film-size course. This week's film, as we continue our month, oh, Popery, is Spike Jones's, where the wild things are. I smile because we made Spike Lee Spike Jones jokes last time. We'll be talking about the movie. - Spike Jones, Malcolm X. - No, God, God, no. - Oh, man. I'm still dusting. - I'm still orange. I'm still dalting. I've gone to a special circle of hell in my mind. - Spike Lee's her. - Damn it. See, that's fine. - Yeah, that's what's interesting. Yeah, that's what's up, then. - I can't believe-- - And Spike plays the Chris Pratt part. That's hilarious. - I was thinking about Jones, you know, just 'cause we did this, and it's weird, like, we're fully like almost 15 year, creeping up on 15 years since he's made a feature. He worked on basically every jackass project that's come out, and obviously there have been a lot since her, but he hasn't directed anything since her, and so it was kind of interesting to go back and pick up on this one from the four he's directed that I had never seen. Had you guys was this the first time for you two? - For me. - For this movie? No, I saw it in theaters. - He's on theaters. - I'm in IMAX with a child. - Wow. Wow. I had just stopped working at that very theater when it came out, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I wanted to, you know, I read the book as a kid. Did you guys read the book as a kid? - Yes. - I don't know that I actually ever did. - Yeah, I think it was like, it was at my elementary school. I think we looked at it as class one time. - I mean, I read to me. - I read to me. - I was familiar with it, but I don't know that I actually ever picked it up and read through it. - Yeah. - Yeah, it was read to me and I read it to my children. So. - Yeah, see y'all next week. - All right, well, yeah, that's our relationship with this book and movie, bye. - Oh, in case you're turning into the show for the very first time in your list, we want to make a quick little warning to you, and that is about spoilers. We're going to avoid spoilers for the first third of the show. It's going to look like this. A synopsis, quick thumbs up, thumbs down reviews, and we're going to play a game that might have thematic spoilers, or spoilers of films in the orbit of this film, and then we'll have play some music to let you know we've gotten down to business, and that's when all spoiler bets are off. So without any further ado, Mr. Arthur Gordon, if you would delight us, please, with yet another synopsis. - Young Max, struggling with friends, family, and self, runs away from home and finds himself on an island filled with monsters who quickly accept him as their king. - I really thought you were going to say, Max made mischief of one kind in another, like the line from the book. - Sorry to disappoint. - That's okay, I was, your cadence had me set up. - Sorry. - So, no, I'm not disciplined. - Arthur would take two. - Arthur would be a very good reader of children's books, I think. - I think he would be, yes. There's a future for you unaudible. - I don't like green eggs and ham. (laughing) He just smokes a lot. (laughing) I don't eat them here, I won't eat them there. (laughing) He's also a little Irish, do you? - Yeah, that's fun. - We'll not eat them anyway. (laughing) - Wilds are there. - There are green eggs and ham. Surely they're Irish. - Sure they're Irish. - Yeah, it's got me a lot. - Surely they're somehow. - Oh my God. - Well, I've seen this movie multiple times and own it, so I'm assuming you're both virgin viewers to the film? Yes, as we've discussed, and so I'm just making clarifying to first certainty. And so, the most virginal of the two of you I will go with to be Dalton. What do you say? - I like this movie, where, why not? - This is a really good movie. I like this movie a lot. That made me feel good. I like it, I don't know what to tell you, man, it's a hug. - I like the big puppets. - Oh. - That's, yeah, you can, I know, just let me get that out. I like them big puppets. - And I cannot lie. - Yeah, yeah, that's it. - Watch them for Mick. - Yeah, you can, I'm fine. Arthur, what about you, man? - They're puppets, the movie. - Yeah, no, Carol got a dumper on him. (laughing) Yeah, that's for sure. (laughing) - No, the, the Karen O original music is really good. I think Max, as Max. Look at the kid's last name. He's also Max though. I thought he was really good and not in like a kid actor way. - I think it's power. - What do you mean? Oh, that's his last name. Max for Max Steel, maybe Steel. Yeah, I, I haven't read this book in a million years, right? So I, I can't, I, obviously I'm aware that the book is like, you know, a few sentences and mostly a picture book. So I, obviously I'm aware that all the sort of prologue has been created for the film and then much of the meat of the film is also created. So it was interesting to kind of like see how, how as a film project, they expanded such a small work. And I think that's like the most exciting thing about this is it does feel like it's expanded and like faithful to the idea of a, of a story for children that takes children seriously and doesn't pander them or talk down to them. And I think that's ultimately like, what is so successful about this film? Is it treats the interior lives of children with a lot of seriousness and a lot of care? And yeah, it's funny. It's awesome. It's cute. Big puppets. What about you Art? - Yeah, it's very well made. - It's a, it's just such a wild project to see unfold. You know, Spike Jones, where the wild thing are, it feels like a sentence out of like a parody movie. - Oh, sure. - Or say a live bit or something like, it's just like not the thing that you do. - Like the Wes Anderson horror. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Or has that same sort of energy about it and it honestly kind of plays like that too. And so it's a gorgeous movie though. I mean, just visual cinematography, those puppets, costumes and whatever they're doing. Just some really cool, like surreal imagery, you know, there's a moment where Carol and Max are walking and then the dogs in the background across the sand. Like it's just such a surreal like image. So all that stuff's really cool. Max is a very good actor. You know, child actors are always kind of records by the way. - Max records. - Yeah. - I like it. - Power would have been good too. - Power would have been good too. He hasn't worked a ton since this. - Really, yeah. I think he's a good kid actor though. You know, I think he is sort of appropriately able to run the gamut of everything kind of asked of him. And so I like that, I like the kind of rest of our cast. I think all of our voice actors and our wild things are all very good as well. It's just a little, I don't know that kind of that question of who is this for? Really I think is the kind of thing that no one holds me back but it's just at the top of my head all the time because I don't know. It's based on a kid's project, not really kids movie per se. It is good that it doesn't pander to children. Like I like that. And that's such a kind of classic literary thing of, you know, the Hobbit is not an easy book to read but it's a children's book. But we've kind of got to a point where children aren't at the same sort of educational level as they were a hundred years ago. So trying to offer denser material is I think sometimes challenging for them. And like you've kind of told me your stories of seeing this with children. Like I just, that whole thing. And I think it really is also a movie for the people who grew up at the book as well. And like I think there's a way of like still reckoning with childhood and then that kind of cathartic moment of, yeah man, childhood sucks and there's a lot to grasp and hopefully we can apply this to how we parent, if we parent, you know, things like that. I think it's a good movie though. Yeah, I, you know, I wanted to see it when it came out and I just never got to and then I was, you know, just kind of looking for something to put in the schedule and I was like, hey, that's short. We could do it pretty easily. And I'm glad I did. 'Cause it's just some really cool stuff in it. And so I don't know it's, I like, I do like it. It's just a lot there to kind of unpack and wrestle with I think. - Yeah, I'm sure it's the question that had, you know, the studio executives nervous, the universal executives that turn it over to Warner Brothers, Warner Brothers execs that were like, God, are we sure we want to give him another 25 million to make this work and like, it made exactly its production budget back pretty much. So like, the people who were like concerned about this finding a big audience were ultimately right. - It was correct. - At some level. - Well, it was mismarketed, right? - Sure, yeah. Howdy, well Dustin, you've seen this a lot. - Yeah. - I saw in Letterbox, you're quite fond of it. - Take a little trip with me back down memory lane. - 2009. - 2009, that very summer. In which I have two children, a five-year-old and a two-year-old. I get a babysitter for the two-year-old child and the five-year-old who is a big fan of the book, he has a little plushy stuffed figures of some of the wild things. Carol and the unnamed, the Bull's Head, the character, we have both of those hanging around. - And you were so big of Alexander, yeah. Paul was really good. - But we have those at our home and a big fan of the book. Really, really enjoy it. And so we go and we see this movie in IMAX. We go into the IMAX experience at this theater and there are like Burger King style, King style crowns that you can get in the shape of the max crown from the book. And so, yeah, little young man's got all of this. We come in there, humongous screen. And within 15 minutes, he is bored to tears. When are they going to where the wild things are? He perks back up at the 35, 45 minute mark wherever that happens. And then he's like, what are they even doing, Dad? I'm like, I don't know, son. - And to build the fort. - And to build the fort, well, yeah. And then why are they talking so much? Very, very bored little five-year-old boy, which I would think considering the target audience of Marie Sendak's great little children's book, five-year-olds would be the anticipated audience. And if you see a cat in a hat adaptation or a Grinch adaptation, something from the world of Dr. Seuss would be a similar kind of assumption that one would make. And so, my kid hated it. He has since grown to love it. He saw it later. - Yeah, it's a movie for a kid Max's age, you know? - I wonder how, like, is it really more for like 11, 12, 13-year-olds? - I don't know, maybe. He was probably 14 or 15 when he came back to-- - Max feels very nine, 10 to me. - I think he was like 11 or 12 when they made this. - Yeah, I may not be playing young. - I always got a radio with eight, seven, eight. - Yeah, I was going to-- - He would've been 12 when the movie came out. - So, 11 to 10 when they were making it. - Yeah, so, you know, fourth, fifth grade is-- - Playing nine. - Yeah, playing nine. So, there you go for that as far as times go. But yeah, I mean, he did come to appreciate it more. And I remember thinking I think there's more to this movie, but I was quite distracted because I had to wrangle in public a small child who was, you know, precocious and not particularly wanting to be there. - Were there a lot of kids in that screening? Do you remember? - There were. - Was it similar across the board? - It was, folks left. I mean, they're, I mean, so, you know, this is what's going on in Denver, Colorado. So, you know, go with it, but-- - Ah, that one's much different here. - Yeah, but folks left, and they're like, I'm not feeling this, and off they go. - So, with all of that in mind, coming back into looking at the movie, I do think it's one of those things where it was just failed to be marketed to the right group of people, and just, you know, this is, you know, come back, you know, come back and think about this, and what was the lesson you were learning, and how can you keep learning that lesson going forward with your own children? Like, it's a parents' movie. I mean, not just parents, but it really does sort of aim at that sort of way in which we deal with or don't, or fail to deal with our own children. And so, that, again, thematically seems to be more in line with what the movie's doing. So, yeah, it was a long road, 'cause I figure if I'd given it a rating back in '09, solid three right in the middle, you know, kind of thing. By the middle of the teens when I'm, the boys are a little older and they're appreciated, and I'm watching it with a little bit, you know, better eye. I'm, you know, I'm bumping up three and a half or something like that. At this point in my life, I'm like, this is maybe a masterpiece. It may be a five, it's definitely a four and a half. You know, it's, I mean, I really, really love this movie a lot. - Yeah, it rots. - Let's see, let's see why you've grown to, like, really be attached. How long did it take your son to sort of, like, at what age did he come back to it and find himself? - I feel like he was 14 or 15 when he came back to it. - Yeah, that makes sense. - Yeah, when he came back to it. And again, great appreciation. Now, in fact, he came in well, and again, I watched this movie a second time with a five-year-old. - With the youngest, yeah. - I've done it with a five-year-old twice now. And that's where I was gonna get you. So me and Rosie sit down and we watch this movie. And she sat through the whole thing. The more energetic, less, more wiggles, ants in the pants kid was there for it. - Interesting. - So I don't know anything. I guess is what I would say about it. - It's her oldest friend, I guess. - She has built, she has built different. - And the home experience is different. - Sure. - With theatrical experience, too. - Sure, but no, she was there for it. - Awesome. - And she kept saying to me, "Daddy, this movie's sad." And we'd watch it, "Daddy, this movie's sad." Was her reaction as opposed to a little boy. - Well, she can read tone. She understands. - Yeah, and so. - Hey, daddy, this movie's sad. - Yeah, I think the best review of this movie we could've got. - I agree. - One of our finest critics, yeah, absolutely. - So that's, I mean, so I guess that is the sort of gamut of possible reactions to it. Here I am now a 40-year-old man. - You cut out, could you say that again? - I didn't get out. - Can you get that clean? - Yeah. - I'll fix it in post. - Here I am a 55-year-old man. (laughing) - Looking back at the, and I think it's brilliant. I think it's probably a really, really smart screenplay in which you do take the bones of just a basic structure. There are some amages to various lines that come out of the, again, the children's illustrated book upon which it's based, but it becomes a thing unto itself. There is Maurice Sendex, where the wild things are, and there's Spike Jones is where the wild things are, and they're two different beasts. - Well, I don't think we can understate Dave Eggers' contributions as the co-writer of the screenplay. He's famous for the, was a heartbreaking work of staggering genius about his parents dying when he's very young and raising his own brother with his sister. Like, definitely, lessons about parenting learned very young seem to have made it into the screenplay, I would say. You know, if we're kind of thinking about the authorial voice of, our authorial voice of this, not like you and the king. Yeah, you're right, though. This definitely feels like its own beast. - And it's brilliant. I mean, it, again, it never gets maudlin' and never gets saccharin'. It never sort of cheats too far towards, you know, cartoonish sort of caricatures. - The best ending you could possibly have. - Yeah. - I was shocked at how well they landed the play, and I was like, oh, oh, that box. - Yeah, well, I mean, the whole time I'm watching the movie the first time through, I'm thinking, okay, and Max came home, and there was dinner on the table, and it was still hot. That's the last line of the book. And so, again, I can, because I've read it so often, you know, I've got lines in my head. It, it feels like that's how you do that. That's how you do that, to make it about this sort of idea. You know, you ran kind of wild, but you know what, Mom still loves you. And powerful, powerful little story. So, yeah, very well filmed, very well performed, great voice acting, great puppets, as we've said. Great owl puppets. I just wanna give a shout out to the less dump truck. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I don't use the voice of those owls, right? - I don't. - Spike Jones. - Spike Jones, it checks out. - Yeah. - Tully checks out. But yeah, it's a great time, great soundtrack. That sort of, it's very twee, but not obnoxiously so. - Yeah, I know what you mean. It was sort of very, - That indie would. - Kitchy, indie rock, yeah. - Yeah. - And I think the direction I saw that Karen O was given was like, I don't know if this was a direction she was given her a statement, or even a review, but just the idea that like, they're both like catchy and complex. Like there's, they appeal, there are melodies that appeal to children and adults with sort of like what they were going for. - Yeah. - Listen, I remember reading. That thought was interesting. - And that's actually, describes late aughts, indie sort of writer, songwriter, singer-songwriter kind of stuff. So yeah, I like it a whole bunch. I think it might be a masterpiece. So there you go, Joe. Listen to those were our thoughts on where the wild things are, which are generally pro. We're going to move on to the next part of our show, which is called "Expanding the Syllabus." And Arthur's going to tell us what that's all about. - Expanding the Syllabus is a thought experiment where we the hosts symbol an academic course or module within a course based on assigned viewings for the week, plus any adjacent text that we would like to supplement that material from books and articles to tangentially related films and stories. - That is correct. Arthur, do you have a Syllabus prepared, my friend? - Not really. - Okay. - I got a soft boiled idea, I have a thing. So I like to think about this sometimes. If I had more time, I could maybe make a list. But I like this idea of movies to show to young audiences, to help them fall in love with the medium, I think. - Okay, I like this. I like where you're going. - And I think about this. So as someone, especially now, especially as now parent, but kind of that idea of material, content, age, appropriateness, that's kind of sort of always in the back of mind, just kind of the world I was raised in the circles just, you know, evangelically and things like that, but it's more pressure. And you know, I always get really skittish when I go to like an R-rated movie, that's like a hard R, you know, I go to like X and there's like a dad with his son, who's like maybe 12. You know, and I'm like, I shouldn't be here. You know, like, why are you bringing your four year old to see Deadpool Wolverine? You know, like, I'm always like, I don't feel like I'm approved with movies, but I also feel like there's a time and a place where certain things, I just don't necessarily want to expose a kid to something like that at the wrong age. You know, I was exposed to certain things at the wrong age, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a cycle to continue and to be something mindful of. So when I find movies that are like, this is really smart, it's really clever and it's really age appropriate. And so I had this thought when I saw scary stories to tell in the dark, it's a movie I love. And I think it's a great like coming of age horror film. That's great for like a teenage audience. And so like, as you know, raising kids or introducing younger audiences to like the horror genre, like this is a great place to go, because it's scary, but it's never like a bridge too far. The content I think is manageable for a teenager, right? A younger teenager or whatever. And so like, that's kind of the realm I would think of putting where the wild things are in, because I think when, you know, hitting 14, hitting 15, hitting 16 to watch this movie, I think you might be kind of blown away by it, right? If you can put away any kind of, if you have a preconceived notion of the material, if you've read the book, it may be a little more challenging, but could just like turn this in on streaming one day, like, oh, I'm gonna watch this movie. And just be kind of captivated by what it is. 'Cause I mean, it is an artistic masterpiece, I think. And visually, just incredible, the way it comes together, obviously, I mean, we haven't talked about it much, but I mean, I think we all sort of have a respect for Spike Jones as a filmmaker, because he's very competent, very interesting, and very sort of cerebral in that. And he applies a lot of those tools here to what would have been probably a cat in the hat rehash in the hands of a lesser director. But instead, him and film a screenwriters do something much different with it. And so, you know, if I think finding those sorts of movies and talking about those ideas of content, exposure, material, how to navigate that and finding these sorts of movies that can introduce audiences to new modes of filmmaking or new genres or go deeper into these ideas through these kind of age appropriate materials is the thing I'd want to explore in some sort of class. And it could be screenwriting class, it could be a production class, I don't know, but number of places you could slot it in, I think. - That's a cool idea. Yeah, I was 18 going about to turn 19 the summer of this came out, and if I had gotten to this, this would have rocked me, dude. - Yeah, it would have sat me down in my ass. - You know, I think back, you know, the movies that got me really into movies, you know, something like Tombstone, which I, you know, watched when I was a teenager and just fell in love with. And really, you know, someone who was like, grew up watching Westerns because my dad loved Westerns, but it wasn't like a genre I was ever like into. Then I watched Tombstone like this cool. - Very '90s-fied one, yeah. - And so like it's a good avenue into that, but also into the filmography, all these actors and just doing something different, but fun with it. And so, and it's a movie I watched on repeat for several weeks after I discovered it. And so, you know, kind of thinking about some of those ideas to what are the movies that sort of moved me into this world. And, you know, maybe having that discussion with students as well. Like, what are those movies that locked you in? - Yeah. - So, yeah, I love that. - Fair enough. What syllabus do you bring, Dalton? - Yeah, some of my films might actually work for Arthur. I'm not sure, but it's definitely a different sort of take on this. And I wanted to put together a list of films sort of, what childhood really is? I don't know what the, I don't have like a pithy name this week, but like it's just films that like take childhood very seriously, not necessarily children's movies all. Some are, some are appropriate for older children probably. Some definitely aren't, but I think they're all films that sort of, you know, Spielberg gets a lot of shit for being sort of the, I love childhood guy. That's a kind of a misread of the work, I think. - Yeah. - I think he's a little bit darker and thinks of childhood as a much more troubling time than he gets credit for. He's obviously no Stephen King as far as, you know, complicating childhood, but those are the two guys that I kind of think of as far as American, you know, totemic American storytellers who are really engaged with this sort of stuff. And so I've got a couple, you know, I've got Stan by me on here. I've got AI or official intelligence on here. I didn't put hook on here, but hook would almost work too. - Sure. - E.T., you know, some of the other kind of classic Amblin' Kids movies. But the other stuff I put on here is stuff like Boy in the Heron and, you know, really a great deal of the jibbly work, you know, work fits into here. But I think Boy in the Heron especially, just because it is so much about being a kid, during a, you know, a complicated time in history and not really like knowing what's going on or your place and not having the tools necessarily to deal with how this large global thing is impacting you personally. And yeah, a really cool movie, 400 Blows, which we talked about on the show a while back. I think a really good movie about sort of unobserved children, children left with their own devices. To that point, Girlhood and Boyhood, both the French film, Girlhood, the American film Boyhood. I think both really great movies about growing up and finding people who relate you can relate to, finding people who look after you, knowing that all the people you can relate to aren't gonna look after you. Really complicated stuff about parenting and child relationships in both of those films and friendship in both of those films. Yeah, I like the both of those movies a lot. I already mentioned Stand By Me. One, I know Arthur likes a lot Kings of Summer. Older kids, you know, this is sort of middle teens in this film, but I think that's a very good movie. It's sort of very where the wild things are adjacent, in many ways. Dustin, your beloved Guillermo de Toro, Dark Children's films, The Devil's Backbone and Hands Labyrinth. I think they're perfect for this. And then the last film I thought of as one I have not seen, but I, you know, comes up when you sort of start looking into like lists of like serious children's films or movies about childhood. Panther Panchali from The Opu Trilogy, that's sort of a classic one that always comes up. So I figure I should definitely mention it. But those are some of the kind of films I was thinking of. Absolutely. I'm sure I've left some really good examples off, but I really wanted, I wanted to put together class. And again, as with many of my classes, you could probably do this as a social sciences class or as a film studies class, but I think examining like what it really means to move through the world as somebody without autonomy. And you're kind of thinking similar thoughts? No, well, I guess what I'm thinking about is movies marketed or that on the team or showing towards children. I'm here to gesture. You're through framed Roger Rabbit. Well, who framed Roger Rabbit on the list? Yeah, of course. The Not Kids Kids movies. Yeah, that's sort of a classic example. Yeah, so who framed Roger Rabbit? Of course, you know, the Jessica Rabbit character herself is problematic if you are nine years old. You do not understand what's going on. Why did we care if she's playing Paddy Cake with Marvin Akhme might be a question that a kid would ask in like for an awkward conversation when you are nine? Does that make sense? And so those kinds of things. And I think where the wild things are, again, we wouldn't that movie. And I think it pays to be discerning, you know, with that. Now again, Rosie was all the way on board with it. Isaiah was not. So I don't know who knows anything. Nobody knows nothing. But I would suggest probably that my first experience with where the wild things are would be more typical of most sort of parents bringing kids to that movie and going, yeah, this is not the right thing right now for you. So what are those movies? And what can we think about them? Who framed Roger Rabbit again, as we've already mentioned, is one of those. But another one I thought about was the Secret of Nim, the Children's Science Fiction novel, again adapted to animation and scary, trippy, psychedelic, surreal madness that goes on though allies haunt us forever. I've got one on my list that I forgot to mention that maybe fits for here, Danny DeVito's Matilda. Matilda's definitely a children's film. Sure. But it's sort of like a children's film for like, you know, a kid that's ready for something kind of heady and sort of complicated. Yeah. And yeah, for sure on that and sort of moving to another one of those concepts like death, you know, there's a couple of movies that do this kind of stuff like a graveyard of the fireflies from Studio Ghibli. As you mentioned, Ghibli already. And Don Bluth's All Dogs Go to Heaven. Rosie gave that one one star. She was not a fan, not a fan at all. Didn't care for it, huh? She was not having a good time with that nonsense. And so, you know, thinking about what else we could think about there. Honestly, I mean, I don't know. We know we did this for a Patreon pick a while back but the last unicorn kind of came to mind a little bit there. I think a watershed down. Watership down is that sure. Yeah. A rain goes one that's in my head because on the surface level, yes kids, but there's like, you know, fear and loathing jokes and all kinds of like random stuff in there. Timothy Allifant has like a man with no name type. Yeah. So like, I think it has those kind of layers to it. Yeah, simultaneously. Of course, Pixar movies. The Incredibles becomes funnier again for you when you turn 14 or 15 after you loved it as a child because there are some kind of insides, slightly more grown up jokes, you know. So this is a thing that a lot of those things, a lot of those animation studios and children's film productions tend to do, you know, and sort of, okay, that'll be great. That's for mom and dad who had a, you know, drag junior to the theater. Well, notoriously George Miller's "Happy Feet" was, you know, just strewn with the double entendre and stuff, which was-- On Babe, Pig in the City, the sequel, which is very dark and surreal and, you know, definitely George Miller being like, all right, let's play. But even when you're, like, trying to do it for the kids, what about "Return to Oz"? Neither of you have seen it, I write it correct. Yeah, I heard a nightmare for you. Well, and I think it is really dark. I mean, very, very scary the way it's told. And again, it seems like that movie is meant to be a kids movie and somehow, somewhere along the way of production design, artistic direction, it becomes something else. It's the case with Pig in the City, too. It's like not meant to be for children. It just is like a George Miller movie also. In ways that, I mean, the first one is, but like, you know, sorry, go ahead. No, seriously, I remember seeing Prince Caspian in theaters and that movie gets incredibly dark with the more stuff and the battles and stuff. And, you know, obviously in the first movie, we do kill Aslan, but he comes back, but it's not like gruesome in presenting that. But, you know, seeing Prince Caspian, like people getting arrows and swords to the gut or whatever, you're like, this is for kids. It's like, it's like-- Children are just watching this? Babies First Braveheart, which is kind of a weird choice to make their, you know, Dark Crystals, another one I thought of, which again, very much marketed as this great big Muppet movie. - Is there like this way, obviously some of these are newer, but like, is there just like a something in the water in the late '70s and '80s just to do these like? - I mean, it speaks to the time, I think, in some ways, yet that's a generation of kids that's kind of left to their own devices in some ways. Yeah, and then also just like treated as adults. - Well, I think modes of storytelling were a little bit more porous at that time. You know, animation was becoming and, you know, obviously the Warner Brothers, you know, cartoons at the front end of their theater runs, they're from Bugs Bunny and those various characters sort of, you know, lend themselves very much to children, but even those are, you know, pretty grown up. - Who care about bonkers? - Yeah, yeah, so it seems to me more like that the mode of animation or the mode of children's, you know, again, and I think animation, stop motion animation or the use of puppetry is sort of all kind of, are of a piece that's the sort of higher artifice styles of making film. They really weren't quite as fossilized into modes of children's storytelling in the same way. And so you do get stuff from Bashki and you do get, you know, Don Bluth and these others who are sort of pushing some of these edges in other directions. And so certainly Disney and Disney's success exists up until that point. But yeah, I'm just trying to sort of figure out, you know, nibbling around the edges here of what's going on and these movies that are marketed badly. And again, then we can start talking about just kids marketing. So Terminator 2, Beale Juice, Alien and all the dolls and, you know, video games and that kind of stuff. I think there's another part of that conversation that can be held there as well where it's not so much that no one thinks that movie's for kids, but that movie totally gets marketed to kids sort of like on the back end. - Yeah, big time. - Yeah, I had that big Arnie doll with the battle damage. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, for sure. - With authentic battle damage. - I had a $1,000 toy. - That's awesome. - That's very cool. - All right, well, there you go, dear listener. I think your syllabus just got much longer. Now is the time we get down to business. (upbeat music) ♪ It's business, it's business time ♪ ♪ I don't know what you're trying to say ♪ ♪ You're trying to say it's time for business ♪ ♪ It's business time who ♪ ♪ It's business now, it's business time ♪ - That business. - Kings are made up, huh? - Kings are made up. - Kings are made up, yes. - Sorry. - Kings are real. - Okay, it's an important lesson in this film. - Correct. - Social construction of reality tells us that it's-- - Correct. - Yeah. - They only exist through us saying that they exist. - Yeah. - There's no such thing as divine right of Kings, yes. - And that's like just kind of as Arthur-- - That's a throwaway line. - Well, it's a throwaway line, and as Arthur just alluded to though, like kind of a foundational theme of this movie is just sort of like how community functions and what we do with it, right? And like how we kind of define our own realities through sort of mutual agreement with Arthur. - Right. - Kind of interesting like, heady stuff. - I was really surprised about like how many movies. - Yeah, it's crazy how into the politics of where the wild things are we get. - That's fun, yeah. I didn't really think about it in the political register. Can you say more about that? - Sure, 'cause like you've got Judy being like, you're responsible for keeping us happy. Like you're not supposed to be mad at us when we're mad at you, which is a really kind of interesting one too. And then of course Carol has this very sort of anxious attachment style and has a really hard time like dealing with KW wanting to hang out with Bob and Terry D'Alves and has a hard time accepting that maybe Max needs some time to himself 'cause it's a little much to be around these giant puppet monsters all the time. And so there it is just sort of this, you know, like one weird set away from me that's being a West Wing episode. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's sort of-- - So it's got governance and-- - Yeah, it's not a little bit of a full thing, but-- - Well, I mean, probably a little bit of Lord of the Fly is where his world is in there. - I mean, the psychosocial register is the most of what I sort of considered, you know. And I mean, I was blew my hair back 'cause I hadn't, I'd forgotten about Judith's comment about you're not allowed to freak out when I'm freaking out or whatever version of that is. I'm like, that's exactly what happens, isn't it? - Yeah. - Is that sometimes a parent is on a freak out moment and then the kids are freaking out too and you're like, this is not okay, this is my turn. Or vice versa, the kids on a freak out and the parents just sort of lose their cool little bit. And the kids are just like, this is-- - That's not that place. - This is completely unacceptable because, and I don't have a rationale for why that happens, but I can certainly say that that does happen. - Sure. - That there's a sense in which the only response is gonna be useful is going to be calm and you're not ever always going to be calm, you know? And so yes, of course you gotta set it yourself. You gotta take a step away, tag team and the other parent or other part of your friend group or your sort of extended family in those kind of moments of course, but you're always going to be at some point failing in that piece, right? And that's when, again, later on, everybody's cooled off. Now supper's still hot, you can't hold the grudge, right? And it's sort of like the sort of interesting sort of redemptive morality that's working to undergird these family systems. It's not a system in which you prevent any of the sadness from ever coming in. I mean, that's sort of Carol's impossible and Judith's impossible sort of request of Max is nothing ever happens except for what we want. That's what I want. And of course, as a child, that's exactly what won things. But that is, of course, never going to be reality. - Which is, you know, I mean, sort of calls into the question, the idea of like interpreting the wild things as sort of just an extension of Max, right? - Right, yeah. - Obviously, like, if we're trying to literally think about what happens within itself. - Max, and some of his projections of his family members too, right? - Sure, yeah. I mean, it's not as one to one as say like Wizard of Oz. - Or, inside out. - Yeah, for sure. But it definitely does have a bit of that. And I think it is interesting for him to like sort of, you know, as you said, Carol doesn't want anything to happen except for what he wants to happen all the time. And that's sort of where Max is at when he leaves home. And it's like, he has to come to grips with like why that's an immature feeling and like why that's not really realistic or practical to expect the people around you, which I think is really, and like where we end with Catherine Keener to kind of like reinforces this, you know, he got ruffalo as the boyfriend who's like kind of a schmuck. Like he's not an asshole or anything, but he's just like, doesn't have the, you know, the intellectual or emotional depth to like help with this rowdy child. - I mean, all of you really says he can't talk to you that way, which is, he's not wrong, but also not helpful. - Not helpful right now. - Yeah, yeah. - But I mean, you do feel like in the most of health way. - You need to do something and it's terrible. - But it's interesting that we come back home and it is just Catherine Keener and Max. - Do we get a name on mom? - I don't remember getting a name on mom. I don't think so either. But just sort of that re-establishment of their sort of single parent household unit, that the clarification that that is what is the most important right now, or at the very least, not to assign value or importance on relationships, but like Max knows there's stability there. - Right. - Where he thought maybe it was lacking. I think that's really beautiful. But also, boyfriend being gone. Kind of calls in the question, king stuff, dad stuff. - Sure. - Didn't know there were patriarchy stuff. Things that are interesting that are not really like dealt with in the film, but are sort of like big kind of floaty concepts that we can kind of identify as like these trickle down into the stories that we tell in interesting ways. - They certainly do. I don't think Spike Jones is asking that. - No, surely not. - 'Cause I think the question, I mean, obviously the boyfriend and the sister's friends are civilized by the elves. - Oh, interesting. Yeah, sure. - The KW has some other friends. - That are different. - And when they talk, they speak their own language and I don't understand what's going on. That's just, it's beyond me. Like that's, that is very much a nine year old sort of, you know, experience of looking at, man, my teenage sister was my best friend when she was also, you know, in the single digits or closer to, you know, those preteen years. And now doesn't have any time for me. And so there is this sort of like anxiety about this. Do I lose this person forever because they're moving on? And do I have to like these people? Do I have to be best friends with their best friends now? It's like, what happens? Do I have to be best friends with mom's new boyfriend now? - Yeah. - And why won't anybody complain my igloo? - Right, yeah. And it's like, I, and you know, I mean, there's a real, just an accurate, you know, representation of childhood immediacy, yeah, the urgency, urgency and immediacy that the moment there's never anything that's not of the utmost importance. There's never anything that you just absolutely must come now. - And the crushing weight that comes with disappointment when you're a child, right? And the loneliness that feels bottomless. - Right. - Yeah, absolutely. Just like all this stuff that you don't understand yet that like, you don't understand how people really relate to one another yet. - Yeah, you understand titles, you know, you understand like, oh, this is so-and-so's parent, this is so-and-so's sibling. You don't really understand like social bonds entirely, you know, and somebody not being there for you in one moment does not mean they are not always going to be, you know what I mean? - Right. - The sort of tendency to maximalize as a kid. I'm just like, oh, well, this is the way it's going to be all the time forever, good or bad. - Yeah, and it also kind of gives voice to that sort of double standard that children will always hold themselves and others too. And that what we, I mean, it's obviously frustrating for adults and others, more mature that are around them, but they just absolutely don't get it. That's sort of part of what the movie's showing us, that Max is, his spinal cord is no longer in contact with his brain when he stands up on the table and he says, "Bring me food, woman." - Yeah. - I mean, there's some, a switch has been flipped and he is not himself and won't be himself for a little while. And it will do no good to reason with, it will do no good to instruct. Because he absolutely 100% will not see it. I'll just give an example. I have to tell my daughter more than once many things. Shocking no one. - Sure. - Right. When she has to say my name twice to get my attention, I mean, the level of irritation is so much, you know, and I could get mad at her about that. And sometimes I do, but I mean, I, you know, I can't. Because for her, it's not, there's no correlation. And I can't even say, "Hey, you know what?" When that time when I tell you, she's not going to, there's no, there's no... - The rational brain that is developing is not present at the moment. - Yeah, there's no sort of connectedness. And so those various sort of maturity disconnects are really what I thought the movie did really brilliantly. It's like, okay, so you've got to recognize you. You're on this level and they're on this level. And therefore you will be more frustrated with them because you're on a different level. And they'll be more frustrated with you because they're not on and to understand that you have to be the adult. - Yeah. Well, that's where Max finds himself, right? And he has to be the adult where the wild things are. - Which is where he's beginning to make his maturation. - Yeah, exactly. - This is corner turn, yeah. - Yeah, exactly. It's like a really cool way to sort of draw out, like, okay, what is this book about? Like, if we have to decide this book's about something, like what's going on there? And like, what are the deeper themes and where would those roots come from? It is like, it's just an interesting way to like deal with the text and sort of complicate it. And, you know, when you're dealing with a work that is not that unhelpful, as far as bringing to the screen, you really have to do a lot of work. - Yeah. - And I think they're very smart in what they choose to do. And the entire plot of the book is Max made mischief of one kind of another in his wolf suit. And he got mad. Mom called him a wild thing. I think she says you're out of control instead of calling him wild thing in the movie. And he says he'll eat you up, he'll eat her up, and she sends him to his room, and while he was in his room, a forest crew. - Yeah. - And that's it. And so he gets on the boat, goes where the wild things are. They have the wild thing, Rumpus, and he tells him to be still, and they's like, we don't like that. And he decides to go home. - Yeah. - And then there's dinner and still hot. I mean, that's the entire plot. - Yeah. - That's all we have as far as base text. And so all this extra layers of developmental psychology and family dynamics. And again, I think, you know, political patriarchal dynamics as well. I mean, the missing father, I think is an important thing to be thinking about here. - It's a huge thing, Carol. I mean, it's like Carol's big thing is like, he thinks a leader will save them. - Right. - But I think some guy will come and fix it. - And he keeps eating them. - He keeps eating them. - Right. - He keeps what Max has been doing to all of her mom's boyfriend, his mom's boyfriend. - Yeah, exactly. He keeps running them off 'cause he's like, I don't need some guy to come in here 'cause he's not gonna do anything but add another dynamic. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. It is like a really interesting, you know, somebody who like didn't watch their mom date a lot, but it was like a new guy came into the picture, right? Like, it was death and only it's like, well, who the fuck are you? (laughing) And what is this, which is not really like, he was a neighbor. My mom's second husband, my adopted dad. So like, there was already like, not a rapport 'cause he's, you know, an adult on a child. - Right. - But like, there was a familiarity. - Yeah, you knew who he was. - Yeah, so, but when that became clear that they were like gonna be romantic and now, oh, hey, it's okay if we get married, what, huh? - How do you ask me this? - Yeah. - But, okay, I guess. Yeah, so it is interesting like how they choose to like tease that out in a narrative, right? 'Cause there's, I think they do a decent enough job of still making it for children, right? They don't take any of these themes, so literal or explicit that like, it isn't gonna be something you can show a child. And I don't mean like content-wise. - Right. - It's just like a complexity. - Yeah. - And I feel like they do keep a, do a decent job of keeping things simple. Like the philosophy of the questions to Ron, Terry, and whatever the Al's name's. - Bob and Terry? - Bob and Terry. - Yeah. - The question, you know, seven words or less or whatever. Like keep it simple. And I think that it's kind of an ethos that you can find throughout the film, which I think is cool. - Right. The other thing that I think is troubling Max is not just the family dynamics. We have to sort of talk about impending destruction and apocalypse. You know, the idea that the sun is- - That was really cool. - Eventually going to go away. And again, this sort of ball of anxieties that are children. And, you know, we sort of forget, you know. And again, I think that's what the movie's to do for us, is to remind us is that we were also very, very anxious about a great many things that were beyond our understanding or control. And so, you know, it's not just like, you know, whether mom's going to get a new boyfriend or whether or not my sister's going to remember who I am because she's got new friends. It's also because you do hear about, you know, epidemics, you do hear about climate change. You hear about- - Now you're just- - Just accelerating and getting worse from when we were kids. - Right. - Yeah. - As far as like the existential threats bearing down on young folk. It's, yeah, it's a lot to do with. - It's not the hottest summer of your life, son. It's the coldest summer of the rest of your life. - Yeah, exactly. Which is like the worst, right? - Yeah, it's which is knowing about the heat, inevitable heat death of the universe is one thing, knowing about it and pending, you know, climatological disasters and other, right? So you're right that it is like a huge part of what Max is dealing with is, and I think, you know, that's something that we all deal with throughout all of our lives. You know, whether you have an anxiety disorder or not, like the sort of childhood fears that are beyond your control, I think like learning how to cope and deal with that is like an essential tool of maturity. - Yeah, and one of the places that kind of rings false in that is that Max is able to articulate later to Carol that, you know, he's sort of worried about the sun dying. And what, I mean, maybe at nine, nine or 10, I mean, after I sort of assume his older age, but I would suggest that even a nine-year-old or 10-year-old would be very anxious about hearing something like that, but wouldn't even know why. - They'd just know that they'd heard it. - Yeah. - And, you know, and there are things out there that make us anxious, and if I were to, you know-- - I'd buy it, but I see what you're saying. - Squier started recently, you know, and I saw this anxiety in both my 17-year-old and my five-year-old. My 17-year-old, I think, kind of knew and knew what was going on. My five-year-old didn't, I don't know at what point, somewhere along the line, you begin to figure out this was bugging me, but yeah, I just, I wondered about that a little bit, I wasn't sure. - Yeah, yeah, it's hard to say, right? 'Cause I think, and again, I think so much of what we're saying assumes someone who matures, right? A lot of people deal with the stuff Max is dealing with well into adulthood. - Yeah, they never stop, yeah, yeah. - No, and so, yeah, it's hard to say, like, what is realistic or not, because, you know, everybody matures at a different pace, and so like, you maybe do, as a kid, like, I know I certainly did, there were specific things I was anxious about that were outside of my control or understanding, including the heat death of the universe, which I think is a very fun thing to say. I was like, hell yeah, I'm gonna be talking to the son dying, I was like, I remember learning about that and being like, excuse me, run that back. One more time, we're talking millions of years, but yes. - Don't care. - Yeah, run that back, what would you say? - Yeah, so it is interesting to just like, I don't know, it's how they deal with anxiety as like, especially childhood anxiety. But yeah, I don't know that I, do you feel like we get a good resolution? Because really, all we get is like, him trying to reassure Carol like, well yeah, that will happen, but don't worry about it. And so like, there's not much resolution there, but no more than there is resolution with him and his mom at the end. - Sure, that's true. - You don't resolve. - Yeah. - You just reconcile. - That's good word. - Yeah. - You know, that's what you do, and then we move forward and we'll probably be doing this again. And sort of having that knowledge, you know, is again, part of that journey to mom's maturity, mom's growing in this process too. - Yeah, absolutely. - So you're telling me the kid will act up again? - Yeah. - Oh boy, oh boy, yeah. - Sometimes not the same way, but sometimes the same way. And they'll find new and more interesting ways to act up. - Hey man, I'm in my now mid 30s, and I'm still finding new and interesting ways to act up. - Yeah, we know. Folks, we know, I know, you know. - Well, all right guys, let's go ahead and pull this train in the station and render it on where the wild things are. What do you say, Arthur, shelf or trash? - You know what? I'm gonna put it on the shelf just because I think it's weird enough, and I think it is on my shelf, so there we go. - Very good, very good. We're gonna say Dalton. - Incredibly shelf-able. Look at all those cool Jim Henson's workshop creations. Don't you wanna watch them jump around? - Yeah, they're Henson's. They weren't gonna go to Henson. They kinda went through a couple of maybe's before they landed on Henson. - Makes sense. - That's right choice. - But yeah, it's always the right choice. - They're Cloud Fight. - They're Cloud Fight. - We didn't talk about the production design of this, maybe outside of how cool the puppets are. - Like the design of those like nests. - Yes, the house is just insane. - And incredible stuff. - A lot of beautiful photography. - Well, even the real world, the locations. - Yeah, it looks very real. - Phil's real, Phil's lived in. - Absolutely. - Max's room, his sister's room, and yeah, all feels. And that's, I think maybe the biggest strength of the film is it all feels very honest and lived in. And yeah, big shelf. - Yeah, it's already been on my shelf for a long time and would continue to be. I'm glad it was and I'm glad I got a chance to look at it again. So thank you for picking this one, Arthur. And we're gonna give you a chance now to listen or to hear about ways you can tell us that we're wrong about our analysis. Dalton's gonna tell you how. - That's right. If you've got thoughts on where the wild things are or anything else, you can email us. Goodtrash@gmail.com. That's goodtrash@gmail.com. If you wanna get in touch with us to talk about this film or any other films we've discussed or that you wanna see us discuss. If you wanna follow us on social media, it's @goodtrashmedia on Instagram. You can find our handles, other handles for people who work with us in this network. Praise down. Wheel of Randy, those are those shows that we work with in the network. Once again, @goodtrashmedia on Insta for all that stuff and ways to find that. Last but certainly not least, if you want to help support this show financially, go to patreon.com/gTM and find out what's in it for you. Get a movie sent to your house, pick a movie for us to talk about on the show, all kinds of cool stuff and lots of bonus content over at patreon.com/gTM. Arthur, we're continuing potpourri, right? We're not into Shocktober yet. We are not. We have one more week of this month and it is not my, it's out of my hands. I'm sorry. I don't know what's about to happen. That's right. Dustin, what are we watching next week? We get a host pick. So I was thinking about- We've been him. Yeah. And so do I. And yeah, I wanna stay on brand. I also wanna make sure I don't torture you guys too terribly much and I went back and forth with a couple of possible picks. But I ended up settling down for a Chilean movie because, you know, it was the last time we watched a Chilean movie for this show. Exactly. And probably a idiosyncratic pick from Chile because it's also stars Michael Sarah and Gabby Hoffman. Oh yeah, it was a car. Crystal Ferry and the Magical Cactus from Sebastian Silva. I knew there was a cactus and a ferry in crystals and I couldn't remember what order those words went in. Cool. I remember when this came out. Yeah, I was curious about it. So it's currently streaming on movie if you're watching at home. And yeah, we're gonna check that out and that's gonna be what's coming up next down the pike for you guys. So I guess with that, you keep watching. We'll keep talking and we'll see you all next time. (upbeat music) ♪ I'm not afraid of anything ♪ ♪ I'm not afraid of anything ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ I'm not afraid of anything ♪ (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
