In Bed With Alexa
Sex Ed Ceramics: Body Image, Growing Up Naked, and Big Penis Obsession (ft. Hani Dresner)
Sexologist Alexa Andre (@sexwithalexa) is joined by Hani Dresner, founder of @gashtrays, a unique ceramics line focused on sex education. We dive into Hani’s upbringing in a naked household, how it shaped her body image journey, and what it was like growing up as the "weird kid" in school. Our conversation explores why sex education is so important, society’s obsession with big penises, the fascinating world of play parties, and the need for greater acceptance of genital diversity. Tune in for a deep, insightful chat that challenges norms and celebrates individuality.
- Broadcast on:
- 29 Aug 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) - Honey, are you ready to get in bed with me? - I'm so ready. - We're not in bed and I apologize about that. Are you ready to lounge on the couch with me? - This is my preferred destination, so I'll say. - I'm a bed person, so like, I love being in bed. Which is why I was like, I should record from bed. - It's adding up. - Yeah. - That's your comfort zone. - Sex, beds, like, it makes sense. - I go hand in hand, yeah. - Everyone, this is the creator of Gasstrace. - That's me. - Honey uses she/her pronouns, and she creates basically sex education ceramics. So like, what is that to say? - Good question. It's honestly something I've been having to learn how to summarize this pitch over the years. - Yeah, sex ed ceramics. Essentially, I use my sculptures, my workshops, and my social media posts to teach people about our anatomy and our desire. And. - Oh my god, sorry, the cat is drinking the water from my free-wink mug. - As I was saying, yes, teach people about their bodies and how we can facilitate our understanding of our own pleasure in that process. - So, your page is starting 10 years old. - Yes. - Which is insane. - That's insane. - That's ridiculous. - But you got into ceramics before that, naturally, or not really. - No, no, no, I literally made a gas tray out of air dry clay one day. Put it on my Instagram. - Your personal Instagram back then. - Yeah, just a high teenager in my bedroom on summer. Thought nothing of it. And yeah, put it on Instagram one day and it strangely just got a huge reception and was receiving in a way I didn't think it would be. So I thought, okay, there's something to this. I'm just gonna keep playing. And 10 years later, it's my full-time job. It just snowballed honestly. The internet took over and now it's my job. - The internet did its job correctly. - Yeah, yeah. - Once in the life. - It worked out for me. - Okay, and I didn't know this. Gas is a word used for vulva regina. - It's very crude, it's... - Yes. - I was told to not use it, but like since we're here. - Since we're here. - This is the podcast. - We're in good company. - Yeah, and it's kind of, it falls within the range of crude British humour of like minge. Have you heard that word? Minge, clunge. This is like in between us, kind of language. Did you see the in between us? - No. - Okay, it's like, we're learning a lot here. - I need a culture lesson from the UK before I come here. - Don't watch the in between us, it's disgusting. - Okay. - But yeah, it's just like the bottom of the barrel, kind of slang to do with the body. - So how did you come up with the name, first of all? - Literally, I just went, gosh, ash, gash, tray. - It's quick. - Yeah, that is just a stupid pun. - Yeah, it works though. - It works, and I'm glad that that was the starting point because it's gone off in so many different directions. - I also think it's a word that it's not that common, that Instagram cannot censor it, 'cause like you don't know. If it was like pussy or whatever it was, you'd be banned, you wouldn't exist. - A lot of fun. - You're right though, it doesn't translate. I think the majority of my audience are based in the US, and it doesn't translate for them, so which is just quite interesting because for Brits it's very visceral, it's disgusting, it's not a nice word. - Do you get any comments about it from Brits? Like what? - Yeah, what the fuck? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of those things where it's like, maybe all press is good press. If it makes you cringe, then that's worth unpacking. - If it makes you laugh. - If it makes you laugh. That's worth unpacking. - In a piece of art. - Yeah, I think so. Well, that's what I'm sticking to anyway. - We'll go with that. - Okay, and how did you grow up regarding body image, body shape, your genitals? Like was this talked about in your household, did you know the right words for your genitals? Like, how was it? - Yeah. We were very naked family. Very naked family, so all family holidays, everyone's naked. - How many are you? - Four. - Okay. - Yeah. - And then how are naked? Okay, we need to do this. 'Cause like I saw my parents naked when they like took a shower. - Okay. - But like, that was, and it was normal. But like we didn't go to the beach and get naked, for example. - I think I've seen my dad's bollocks more than I've seen anyone else's bollocks. But what is wonderful about that atmosphere, growing up in that atmosphere, it was just this understanding that we are just all sacks of flesh. There was no meaning added to it. - We're gross. - Nakedness is not inherently sexual. It's just a naked body, literally just a body. - That's when shit gets dangerous. We're applying all this meaning to such an innocent, wholesome, like let your body grow, let your body live. Quit policing on bodies, for God's sake. But then at some point, I remember it vividly. I was sharing a bath with my brother. I must have been about 11 or so. And my mum erupts. "Hanny's got her first pube, "Hanny's got her first pube, get her out the bath." And suddenly everything changed. (laughing) - Okay, well, it was a lot. It was, well, obviously you don't think about it at the time, but it was like, okay, now I have to be conscious of my body. My body means something and I have to hide all of a sudden. - Yeah, why did you feel like she had to announce that you were growing few, you know? - It is fascinating. It's just all of a sudden this innocent child is now sexual. - Yeah, literally. - Yeah, yeah, that's their purpose now. That's how they're going to be perceived. So that was a turning point. And, you know, I don't-- - Did you just stop bathing with your brother? - Yeah, so I think I was wise. - Yeah, yeah. (laughing) But there was, I don't want to go too much into like my family or whatever, but there was like continued nudity on the male side of the family, but not on the women's side. It was very much like, okay, my honey's growing boobs now, we put those away. But-- - But could your mom, was your mom naked around the house or also not? - That also stopped at some point, but my dad and my brother still were. It was the stubble, I mean, like their bodies were, yeah, their bodies weren't sexual. And it was like, ha ha, whatever, no big deal. But my body going through puberty was something to be scared of. Then my mom got a double mastectomy in 2017. And that changed things again. She was all of a sudden topless, she had her scars out. And that was like, okay, what? - Make it make sense. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was a lot of like, conditioning that I wasn't really aware of as I was growing up in my family, yeah. - No, you don't question it, but then the fact that you have to hide your body, that it tells you things. It's like, okay, why? And like, then who's allowed to see my body? Like, it, you know, it brings up so many parts. I mean, there's so much you learn from your family. There's so much you learn from school. I think, I love the way my parents raised me. I think it's done wonders for giving me quite like, body neutrality, you know. School was a different thing. - How was school? - School was hard. I think that's where I kind of got the understanding of, oh, this is where my worth lies. - My body. - In my body, this is how I get seen. This is, you know- - What matters? - Yeah, this is the validation I should be striving for. And it was very much, I was one of those early teens that would like wear a hat all the time. Do you know one of them? One of those freaky kids was like- - A bucket hat? - No, I was in as cool as a bucket hat. It was one of those like over the ears and the dangily. I smelled bad and I wore that hat all the time, okay? But then I grew tits and everything changed. All of a sudden, the weird girl had tits and I was like, oh, she's being seen. And that was another big lesson of like, okay, this is where my value lies. What do I do with that? - Okay, what about your relationship with your genitals? Like you and your vulva, when you're like, oh my God, it doesn't look like the way it looks in born. We're like, I don't see what I have anywhere else. You're like, how was that? - But, again, it's not something that I was very conscious of until later in life. - When did you, if you were ever conscious, when was it? - I have a very good memory of this as well, actually. My dad is a very sarcastic, jokey, provocative person. And I remember in my teenagers, my room's a mess. I have like a hand mirror on the floor and he comes into my room and he sees the mirror on the floor and he goes, oh, is that your vagina mirror? And I was thinking, well, why would I have a vagina mirror? Am I supposed to look at my vagina? Also, by vagina, he means vulva, you know? Let's check our lingo. But I thought, maybe I should have a look. - Thank you, then, for the idea. - Weirdly, thank you, dad, for sparking that thought. - How old were you when this happened? - I must have been like 15 or something. So I had a look for the first time, I was like, oh, what's that? You know, I mean, when was the first time you looked? Can you remember? - No, I think I was a very curious child. - Oh, really? - Yeah, but like, maybe like pre-purity was different than like after puberty and after puberty? I don't think I, 'cause like, if you look from above, it's totally different than if you grab a mirror and you're like, oh, yeah, frontal. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - So like frontal front, I guess? No, yeah, like, I guess, my teens were 17, 18. 'Cause I was always like, am I, like, do I look fine? Or like, I was curious about if I fit in, you know? - Yeah. - Is this labia too long? Like, one of my labias is longer than the other one. I was like, oh, fuck. And then I told my first boyfriend, he's like, and I am grateful, he was like, shut the fuck up. Like, your vulva is beautiful, like, it's so perfect. I love it, like, don't everything that, 'cause I was like, should I get this? Like, should I cut this out so that they're equal? And he was like, literally shut the fuck up. No, it's so pretty, and I was like, okay. Okay, yeah, and like, sometimes that's all you need. If he had been like, yeah, actually, then imagine like, the insecurity would be deep. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I don't even think about it. I'm like, dude, that's amazing, good man. This stuff you learn in your teens goes a long way. - It shapes you. - Eh, how do you get over that stuff? Do you? - You don't, you don't. It's the foundation for everything. - There. - Yeah. - So you took a look in the mirror. And then, but when was the first time you were like, oh my God, do I look? Like, like, compare yourself? When did you compare yourself? And we're like, is this, that's a look, the way it's supposed to look. - Another vivid memory of that, obviously. Good origin story. - Well, did you, did you watch Friends? - Yes. - Okay, there is an episode, maybe you'll remember, where Ross is being encouraged to dirty talk, someone he's dating. - Yeah. - And he's like, and she's like, dirty talk me. And he's like, oh, oh, oh. Volver. - Yeah. - And I was like, what the fuck? And I was like, what is that? - Oh, what is that? - What's a Volver? - So I googled it, and I put it in the search bar, but rather than it googled searching, it went to vulver.com, which is just a website of a woman like this, just pointing at a Volver. I was like, whoa. So I get the mirror out, I'm doing the little compare. I'm like, oh, mine doesn't look like that. - Was it very like, your stereotypical porn vulver? - Yes, absolutely. I mean, she had the '80s hairstyle. This was like, proper porn star days. - Okay, yeah. And yeah, and then you do your deep dive on porn hub and you're like, I don't look like that. I don't look like that. And also, in sex ed, I don't know about you don't know about how it was for you at school. - It was SDV and abstinence based, basically. - Great. - Oh, that was awesome. I learned so much about my pleasure. - Or lack of. - It's 'cause we were shown penises, but we were basically only shown reproductive female, like we weren't shown like vulvas. - Wow, wow, wow. - I think. So I was like, my generalist don't matter. Like they're not important. The only thing that is important about me is the fact that I can reproduce. - Yeah. - So it's fucked up. So what was it like for you? - I'm getting rageful. - I'm reliving it. - I know, it's so annoying. - Yeah, of course, sex ed was not great. - No, I think, you know, we only have like illustrations of genitals at that time. - Oh, absolutely no real picture. - No, no, no, no, no. - That's not a thing. - Symmetrical, just perfect and neat and tiny and pretty, and who out there can relate to that? - Who out there? - Literally. - Yeah. - But then we all were like, I should look like that, even though it's like, honestly cool, like cool, actually does look like that naturally. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - It really is fascinating to go on a tangent, but like from doing what I do, you really see everyone has insecurities, regardless of if you've got longer labia menorah, if you've got shorter labia menorah, like if you've got the most perfect picturesque, porn, hard, vulva, there is something you're not gonna be happy about. - Absolutely. - And that is just the most tragic truth to me. So I think what my agenda has been with gas trays, it's to celebrate the wonders of our functionality and our diversity and how we work as a sack of flesh, rather than focusing on the superficial elements that we cannot control and mean very little, should mean very little to our pleasure and our enjoyment of life. - As long as you're now like uncomfortable or experiencing space or whatever, like-- - Absolutely. - You're fine, it's perfectly fine. So has it helped your work like heal some of that, you know? 'Cause I know mine has, it's like, it's been so nice and I know I'm helping others, but like personally, it's like, it's helpful for me. - Yeah. - So. - That has been the driving force, actually, with gas trays, this was never intended to be my job. So I've kind of just allowed my own curiosity to be the driving force and communicating with the audience, asking questions, what do they wanna learn and learning for myself along the way? You know, I'm not trained in ceramics, I'm not trained in sex ed, this is truly just grassroots on the ground, someone exploring their own sexuality and what intrigues them and other people relating along the way. And I think people value that. Like, I'm not here preaching that I know how to live a life without insecurities. We're all, no matter how gorgeous or confident you are, there's gonna be something that makes you uncomfortable. So I really like the body neutrality kind of mindset there of like, you live, our bodies are for living, and that should be our focus. - Yeah. - Yeah, and for whatever you want them to be as well, like if you want your body to be like a vessel for pleasure, which is what I want, then that's totally funny, if you don't, then you don't. - Yeah, that's a good point, because I remember when I, a few years ago, when I first started being more of my full time job, I was really adamant that I wanted gas shades to actually be like void of desire and sexuality. I wanted it to be quite a neutral, just objective look at the body without applying the sexual meaning. And as my own journey has progressed, I've realized, no, you can do both, you can like celebrate the sex and consider the body to just be a vessel, you know, it doesn't have to be-- - Both things can be true. - Yeah, absolutely, yeah. - Okay, and this is your full time job now, which is, I understand the feeling. - It's crazy. - So when you first posted like, behind me from 10 years ago, would she believe you? Or would she be like, what the fuck is going on? - No, no, who could have predicted this? It's so crazy, and it is crazy, but also people often say to me, it makes complete sense. - And like, I saw that. - Like, I kept on with it, yeah. - It makes complete sense, like, that's where my head is at, that's what fascinates me, the history of it, the biology of it, like, the art of it. Like, these are my passions and somehow, it's just all coming together. - What were you doing before you became your full time job? Like. (laughing) - You gave me science, science, science. - Well, that was a passion for a while, that was on the cards, but I was a social designer for a little bit, so doing like graphic design for a social design agency, which is nice and all, but it really just wasn't giving me the warmth. - The feeling, yeah. - It ended up just being like, typeset and legal documents for, you know. - Oh, yeah, no. - I wanted to be like, talking with people, working with people, having that, like, to and fro. So that's been the most rewarding thing. But, yeah, I mean, it's so funny how far you can come. At some point, I was in the police cadets. - Yeah, insane. - Acre, but that's all I need to say. But that's how far you can go from one to the other, you know, I did not see this coming. - The opportunities that arise, the doors that open when you, well, first of all, when you have a presence on social media, but like, and if you're passionate about it, like, it's just endless. - Yeah, yeah. - I am trying to focus or like be with people that are passionate about their jobs. If I'm only around people that complain and are miserable from Monday to Friday, I'm like, I feel for you, but, like, I love my job and I feel bad if I am, like, celebrating my job next to you. - Oh, no, good for you. I think that they're good boundaries to have, 'cause you absorb the energy. - Yeah, it's like, okay, then, first of all, I feel like I can talk about how awesome my life is, 'cause I do love my life. And it's also like, I really like, I am sorry, but I don't wanna hear you complain, like, every fucking day, like, it is dreamy. - Yeah. - So I am obsessed with meeting people that are like, - That's nice. - It's just my job. - Oh my God. - It's such a privilege, I mean. - Absolutely. - Oh, God. - But even if you, like, are not passionate about it, you could, there's, I think there's, like, very positive people that are gonna find the good, and then there's people that really just love to complain and say, I get it, but also, you chose this life. - Yes. - What are you doing about it? If you're not doing anything, then not. - Yeah, yeah, I agree, life. - So, what is, what are you focusing on now? Am I fixing one now? - Well, I think I'm in my kink era, early. - Mm. (laughs) - I've been trying to, so I live and work in a warehouse, which is wonderful because it means different creatives come and go a lot of the time. So, just over the years. - Like, multiple people live and work from there. - Yes. - Okay, like an art being creative thing. - Yeah, so at the moment there's seven of us. Yeah, over the years, just different creative people have come and gone, and everyone is so inspiring and wonderful, and... - That's fun. - Yeah, it's really lovely. So, I've just, over the years, been collaborating with more and more of my housemates. - What is collaborating with? - So, everyone's a different creator. So, Amelia, for example, is a jewelry designer. - I've seen that on Poppy, Scarlett. So, I've seen Poppy wear that necklace choker thing, and I'm like, "I immediately recognize it." - That's amazing. God love Poppy. - Poppy's gonna be on Friday. - Really? - Yeah. - I love Poppy. - Okay, good crew. - Yeah. - So, yeah, Amelia is a jewelry designer. Help me make these. - You also, what was the other one? What's... There's another one that has a different word in it. - Oh, so these words, this one's a slurve. Then there's trash, and then there's mass. And... - The mess is fun. - Yeah, these words were taken. The project, basically, was based on my hate comments on Instagram. So, I went viral, a profiting of a hate. - Right. - That's the best combat. - That's crazy, right? - Literally. - That is juicy. That is money well spent. - Yeah. - But, yeah, so, I went viral a few times unexpectedly. Either it was the playing guitar with a dildo video, or sculptures of vulvas, whatever it was. But that, obviously, once you get outside the sex positive echo chamber. - Oh, and it's a warm hole. It's, yeah. - You see the mainstream opinion, and it's-- - We live in a bubble. You know, like, when their content goes outside the bubble, it's like, so eye-opening. - Oh. - This is what most people think. - Yeah. - Wow. - Yeah. - Yeah, I love our juicy little bubble. - And sometimes I do workshops for people, and I think it's myself. My job is pointless here. Everybody already knows what I'm teaching them. But then, as soon as you do a workshop, or you're exposed to a different group of people that are not in this world-- - You're like, "Oh, this is needed." - My work is not done. (laughing) - Absolutely. - So, yeah, I took hate comments, where people have called me a pervert, degenerate mess, trash, all these things, and I thought, "Well, if the shoe fits," (laughing) might as well wear it. So, yeah, I just wanted to profit off of these trolls, essentially, but I'm doing a new range soon. As I was saying, kink era. I'm trying to expand this range of jewelry. - You should do sluts. You should just like, 'cause like, everyone that's been on my podcast basically embraces the term, and we all call ourselves like sluts. - Yeah, that's the thing. So, I'm trying to expand the range to different kink materials, so I'm gonna be collaborating with Amos Gallery, Amy from Amos Gallery, who does latex. We're gonna be doing some chokers on the hunt for a leather artist, and we're getting new words. Some fun ones that we've got, Himbo, have you ever heard? - No. - Himbo is a new one to me, but it's like, Him-Bimbo. - Ah, yeah. - Oh, I like it. - Oh, I like it. I like it. - Wait, proudest accomplishment. - Okay, proudest accomplishment. Yeah, it's gotta be my land design week. That was such a curve wall I did not see coming. I think I've... - They're also the best ones. - Yeah. - Like, I'm expecting everything in lines, and like, it goes really well. - Super. - That came out of nowhere. And I really... So I've been doing gas trays on my own, mostly this whole time, and failed to get a industry job. You know, I did graphic design at uni, and it was really like, okay, the mark of success is if I get a design agency job, that will mean I've done everything right. And I failed to do that. And that's part of why I persisted with gas trays, 'cause it was just like, I'm not gonna overthink this. I know how to do this. I'm just gonna enjoy it, and hopefully something good will come of it. So really kind of just was stubborn about it, stuck my head down and just sculpted bubbles in my bedroom. - It made it happen, yeah, sure. But it was like a lot of rejection along the way of like, I'm submitting my work to exhibitions. I'm submitting it to shops, no one's biting, obviously, because it's quite a controversial concept. - You have to find the right people. - Yes. - And then the right people will be obsessed. - Yes. But then to be invited to do something from a land design. - Wow. - Was just like the validation I'd always craved, the industry validation I'd always craved. So yeah, Pierre and I together created these, the intention was to create a queer voice, a queer object to display on the dinner table that is like provocative, makes you wanna lick it. You know, it's like tactile and juicy and weird. - What did it end up being? - So we started off with the idea of being, these vessels being bound by latex and just... - I know what, okay, I saw it. I just didn't know it was the one for a movie on the same week. - Yes, it was that it. A lot of people don't get it, they're like... - You do wanna eat it, right? - Yeah. - I'll like, here's a pic, yeah. These weird, kind of sexy, tempting, amorphous blobs. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was so fun. - Yeah. - Like abstract, but like, hot. - Yeah. - And it was fun moving into the more abstract world. - Yeah, 'cause you're so graphic, so like, real objective. - Yeah, the point of Gashres mostly has been we need accurate representation, we need diverse representation. So to go into the abstract world was challenging and fun and freeing and amazing to see in the exhibition. - Oh my God, it was really fucking cool. - Congratulations. - Thank you. - Ooh, okay. You've gone viral a few times, naturally. Well, not, I mean, not great content. But you did talk about, 'cause you went from vulvas to like all genitals and so on. And you're, sometimes your best performing content is big, big dicks. - Big old knobs. - Yes, UK people have the balance. - Yeah. - So like, you were hesitant, you were confused. Like, if this is my best performing content and this is a business, like, I wanna keep doing this, but at the same time, like, small penises exist and are valid and I wanna be inclusive. So like, how do you find the balance and like, what was going through your mind and what did you decide in the end? - It's really interesting the audience's reaction to this because vulvas, there's this general consensus of, we just want more, we just want more diverse, the-- - The weird of the better, yeah. - It's really honestly the weird of the better. But then when it comes to dicks, people can't not be pulled in by a big, straight, aggressive, erect penis. - Are they not into curves? - No. - That would be like the textbook perfect quote unquote. - It's fascinating, I do these portraits. So people submit pictures of themselves. - Real pictures, yeah. - And I do portraits of them and without fail, you know, the intention of these portraits is for people to celebrate their bodies, be accepting of what they've got and that kind of thing. Without fail, people with penises that's met for portraits, they all look exactly the same that, and I get measurements too, people send me their measurements to make lives and they are identical, huge, big, straight, no curves, erect penis. - Well, wait, I'm confused, are these the only people submitting and then all the rest are just too insecure to submit and to have a self-portrait or are they angling, posing and doing the thing so that it just looks like a straight thing? - No, I think it's a former, I think, for people with vulvas, they are able a lot more to lean into the fact that they maybe have insecurities and they need to work on celebrating it. People with dicks come, that want to portrait, come forward 'cause they're already confident and they know it's a pretty good-- - They're like, I know I have an awesome thing, let me celebrate it, let me show it off. - So I think there's more work to be done there and encouraging that kind of celebratory self-exploration with people with penises. - Like, yeah, it's like the same thing as like going to a new dispute, you know, some people say, oh, you're only gonna go to a new dispute if you're already confident in your body. I think that, mmm, it's only a certain kind of people will go, but like, don't, you're not necessarily confident. - Yes. - Yeah, so it's interesting. But to answer your first question, I think I'm just gonna use the big dicks as a tool. They get them-- - As a business tool. - Yeah, they get the numbers in. - Yes. - They're eye-catching. So hopefully you'll see a big shlong, it'll pull you in. - Which, like, they do exist, but like the minority. - Yeah, no hate for the big shongs, but hopefully that will go viral, you'll then check my page, you'll then see the other more diverse work. And yeah, so hopefully the big dicks will facilitate some sexual education. But I don't-- - It's the entry way. - It is a-- - It's a diversity. - Yeah, exactly, it is a balance though of like, oh, but the numbers and the money is, these dicks are selling, that can't be my focus, that's not ever gonna be my focus. - Yeah, 'cause then it would go against like literally everything you're trying to do. - Absolutely, yeah. - Yeah, but it is a business, so like I agree, that makes sense. - But I also, it also makes sense that this is happening, these are the beauty standards that we are living by. - So yeah. - Yeah, but then it's hard, like if only these people, experiences are confident enough to do this, and then we are all like, big dick energy and like it's so, like men, honestly they have such a hard time in like, I sometimes talk shit about men, but like honestly, they struggle, like this is such an ingrain insecurity, like almost every man I've known are like, they're like, it's my size, okay? And I'm like, yes, you're fine. But then some people are like, I only like big dick, like this is so complicated, it's tricky. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like I think people are meaner on penises and they're on vulvas, society, but then people with vulvas are hard on themselves, but we're not really hard on other people, not that much. - I think just dick talk in general is much more out in the open. - Also. - Yeah, vol the judgement tends to remain amongst couples slash in the open. - No, it's also like, oh, there's a roast beef in like-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - But no one's to be like, I'm not gonna fuck you because of your vulva. Mostly, it's like, but if you have, like people with small penises get humiliated and it's like, that's traumatizing. - That is shame being dished out in every direction. - True. - No one is immune, it's tragic to see, but yeah. - Yeah, it's actually just kinda sad. - It's so sad, but that's what we're working on. - We are, okay, something you've learned in the past decade that has really surprised you. About yourself, other people, bodies, business, which I'm interested in, but this is a sex podcast, so let me know business. - Maybe if I could take a darker term, yeah, because I think actually I've been reflecting a lot recently on, there are actually so many forces in my life that have pushed me in this direction, and I think a lot of, there seems to be a lot more energy amongst AFAB people, women, queer people, to re-educate themselves in sex in the early 20s to 30s, whatever. - And yeah, so, and I think this, because there are so many things pushing us in that direction, whether it's the mainstream media, the beauty standards, the porn, whether you've been a victim of sexual assault, like there is a lot of factors at play, and I've realized recently why a lot of my fascination has come from not feeling safe in my past experiences, and mainly not having the vocabulary or the understanding about my own needs and desires and sexuality, which has unfortunately led me to unsafe circumstances. So I was raised doing fighting sports from the age of six to 18, and it was a wonderful thing to learn in my younger years. I think it gives you this false truth that knowing how to fight will keep you safe. - Yeah, no. - It's not that at all. - And also the fact that you needed to learn how to fight is fucked up. - Yeah, agreed. But I think in my recently, I've kind of, my understanding has shifted from, it's not knowing how to fight that will keep you safe. It's knowing yourself, your desires and your boundaries, and trusting yourself when they get crossed. It's knowing how to speak up, that's what-- - Advocating for yourself. - You're safe. And that, shit, we do not get taught. And that, for me, is why sex education is so important. If we don't know these things about ourself, how can we know our boundaries, how can we learn how to say no to anything? - Yeah, so that's what I would advise myself 10 years ago. That's been the main lesson for me. - Explore, learn for yourself, not for the validation of others, but learning your own needs is gonna-- - Yes. - Keep you the safest, yeah. - And sometimes it's people that have a hard time saying no regarding sex, usually have a hard time saying no in other aspects. So sometimes it's easier to practice in like, when you're offered literally anything to start saying no then, and then that can translate to sex. But if you start with like the hardest thing, which, I mean, you should try, but sometimes it's really hard. Like, say no to anything. I, when I go on dates, sometimes I really like to deny someone of something, and then that's like anything. And that tells me a lot about their personality. So I'm like, okay, green flag or red flag, let's-- - That's so good. - That's a good exercise. And also know without an explanation. - But literally, no. - Yeah, you don't have to give a pitch just as why. - No, it's a full sentence. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That is something I'm still learning there. - It's hard 'cause you wanna explain yourself, and you never wanna make anyone feel bad, and you feel guilty, but like, no, it's a full sentence. - I wanna please, I wanna make you comfortable, but what are my priorities here? - My comfort. - Are you at risk of being uncomfortable and unsafe, anything? So yeah, it's hard. - Big life lesson now and working on it. - Well, no, we like educating here, that's really good. That was a positive question, but I like the dark third. - Okay, gotta be honest. - No, for sure. Okay, I'm obsessed with pottery. The great pottery throw down, that's my favorite show ever, and it's like the only reality TV I'll stand, like, yes. Although, I will watch like trashy reality TV from time to time. - You look human, yeah. - Yeah. I think like it's blowing up, like it's getting the hype it deserves, like I wanna go on a pottery class as a date, like I think it's so fun. So have you seen the shift in the past 10 years? Like are people now more interested? Like, fuck yeah. - Yeah? - Yeah, I'm milking this situation. - Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is a great day activity. - It's just so fun. Your hands are dirty. You cannot use your fucking vote. You have to be so engaged. It's, and you're gonna fuck up, like it's hard. So it's fun me, and I think it's like the definition of quality time with someone else, basically, yeah. - Yeah, it's really fascinating. So we do a bunch of different workshop formats. We've got a couple specifically for like going with your partner or going on a date or whatever. I've collaborated with them Hacknakey, who's a life drawing collective. They function in Dolston. And yeah, we do this Clay with Bay session, where you come, you make sculptures of your partner, you make collaborative sculptures. It's really like the focus is the play and the fun of it and the process, rather than coming out with this perfect thing. - Right. - Like, you know, that perfectionism really just gets in the way of your enjoyment of it. - Correct. - No, and like, if it's funky, it's also like, oh, remember, like, and you put it there, it's like, I remember, like-- - You've got character. - Yeah, yeah. - Really like, remember how we fell on him? - Yeah. - Like, it's just fun. - It's really sweet, and people get super tactile, and it's just nice watching people flirt. But yeah, I once, I do private workshops as well. And I hope I can tell the story. You can cut it if it's like-- - No, please, we see everything here. - I once did this workshop. - Private. - Private workshop for this couple, and usually I only do private workshops minimum, it has to be five people, and they come to my space in Stoughton, Newington. - Yeah. - This couple came specifically from, she came from Saudi Arabia, he came from Germany, specifically to sit in my warehouse in the Stoughton, Newington, and do this workshop. - And why did you accept the-- - 'Cause he was like, oh, I'll pay for the whole thing. - Right, I'll pay for like the five people, yeah. Just keep me up. - And then, they came, and they were clearly just fucking horny. And they wanted to do portraits of each other. So it was just me, third wheeling them. - They were naked? - They weren't naked, but they were looking at pictures of each other's genitals on their phone. And I was just trying to guide them, and they were touching each other up under the table. And then, this guy was so enthusiastic, he was like, this is such a good business idea. Like, he worked on finances. "You're gonna go far, this is great." And I was like, oh my God, amazing. And then, I think they were doing cocaine in the toilet. 'Cause they kept going off and then coming back really horned up. - Like a kid of me. - Maybe, maybe, but either way-- - Something. - Yeah, and this was like the middle of the day. - Yeah, I think 11 a.m. And I left like, oh, what just happened? I just visited it. - But did you feel uncomfortable? - No, I was just observing it. - You were just like, this is so curious. - Yeah, yeah. - Like, it's so interesting. - But more of the story is, clay's pretty horny. - It is. - No, and like, I've seen like creators that make it, like, you seem like the ghost movie, it's kind of hot there, but like, also like, some people make it extremely, like, it's like erotica, but like with, and I'm like-- - Yeah. - I'm like, hold on, but like it's so hot. Or the erotic potters on the wheel at the moment, they're just like finger and clay. - They're all doing the wheel. - They know what they're doing. - Oh, they absolutely, and then they get the thing web. None of them, they know, in the close up. - Yeah. - None of them, they know. But it's hot, like, part of me as a first date is kind of hot. Okay, so you're most sure, like you don't do wheel, or you do. - I do a bit of wheel, but mostly hand-building, yeah. - Right, so, 'cause it started as a hobby, then it turned to business. - What did sitting down in building mean for you then, and now is it the same, has it shifted? Is it more like, oh, this, I have to do this, 'cause it's my job, or is it still like peaceful, like, nice? - It is, there's definitely been a change from this was my escape. And now, it's one I'm trying to-- - The thing you escape for? - Yeah, it's, you know, when people ask you what are your hobbies, I turn my hobby to my job, so I'm not actually sure how to answer it anymore. It's definitely, I've been working on finding that balance of I need to make sure that I have the balance of fulfilling orders, creating stock, but then also the value in exploring, doing something new, trying and failing, stepping outside of my comfort zone. That's where the joy is. The rest is now a job. - Yeah, can we found like new hobbies, or like, right now, like, not your job, but really fun hobbies, you know, how? - I guess so, I've started gardening and that's nice. - Yeah, I see it. - A kink party is a hobby. - Yeah, yeah, sex is a hobby. - Sex is a hobby. - I am a proud participator, so it is. - I'm qualified, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. So, is your kink era, does that include kink parties? - Yeah. - Play parties. - Yeah, that's been, it's been a good few years, I've learned a lot in these years. - What are your favorites in London? - So, seen as wonderful, small crowd, which is really nice, very social, but I loved, I love to dance. So, are you a raver? - I'm a bit of a raver, yeah. - We can be friends, okay? - No, I'm not a raver. - No, I'm like a date-time brunch play party, like-- - That's awesome. - If we can speak, I don't dance, so like, I want to talk, I don't want to yell. - We're actually awesome. - Oh, yes, and then like, they end at like 7 p.m. So, you're like in bed by 10, and it's like, it's the most wholesome thing. It's like, date-time, and you can see any, 'cause you're, it's dates, that you can see literally any crevice in people's bodies, and they're fun, they're fun. I must recommend. - I agree with you there, I'm not into the raving for the late nights, and this week I'm ready. - Why do they start so, like, doors open up midnight? - Night. - What the fuck? What are you doing from 6 p.m. to midnight? - Napping, like, move it. No, I just, I'm still passionate about this. - And then you're queuing in your underwear, in the cold, in London. - Literally, or like, you're wearing this, and then you have to show, like, 'cause this is not allowed. - Yeah. - Then you have, like, no, I'm changing, like, I swear, this is my outfit. - But I will say, I do love the atmosphere of Cloppabotan, yeah, that's my go-to. - Have you done quench, 'cause they're kinda new? - I haven't actually, have you been? - I was gonna go on Friday, but then I didn't. - Like, like, doors open at 11, I was like, no. - Well, I couldn't make it. - You need to try joy rides. - Yes. - You need to try the daytime ones. - Yes, maybe this weekend will be one. - That's a great one. - There is one this Sunday. Cloppabotan is doing summer fist. - So, it's during the day? - Daytime, and last year it was amazing. - Okay, I have a couple more questions, and I remember this vividly when you posted this reel about an ad in London that was about, like, gynecological health, or, like, there was, like, a fucking speculum, or, like, it wasn't even a vulva, it was, like, a fucking uterus, an illustration of a uterus, and someone, like, covered it up, just an illustration, and you were mad, you were, yeah, you were feral. - Yeah, like, fuck this shit, and you brought a friend, and you uncovered it, and London is a western, first world city, developed city. - I share your rage, like, why the fuck is a uterus, so, like, scandalous, like, what is going on, and what was going through your head when you saw this, besides, like, pure anger. - It's really fascinating, isn't it, 'cause I put it on Instagram, and people were theorizing in the comments, like, who would have done this, and actually, the who isn't the right question, because there are genders, cultures, religions everywhere that do not want us to have agency of our bodies, they do not want us to be educated in that way, it's giving us too much power to have this understanding, and so, I think that the question of who did this is pointless, why the society is not ready for this imagery, medical imagery, it wasn't even a photo, it was an illustration, an illustration of a womb, and then, a picture of a speculum. - What? - And the word, it was like a medical ad. - And the word tampon, the word tampon and womb had been censored, and you know what, actually, so I posted it on Instagram on my stories, and then, Florence, the founder of the vagina museum, got in touch on Instagram, I was like, "I wanna help you, I live down the road." We joined forces, and we scrubbed it off, next day, it'd been censored again. Yeah, so, like, this work does not stop, this work does not stop. - The mind-blowing thing is that that was medical tampon, why is that a bad word? It's literally, like, a piece of cotton that you put inside your vagina too, because if we free blood, the world would go actual feral. Like, we don't have the solution, though. - We should, it needs to be normalized. - Like, you were disgusted by pads, tampons, menstrual cups, then, fine, we will literally bleed on your fucking couch, like, at the office, and we'll leave stains everywhere. If you're so disgusted by fucking menstrual products, it's ridiculous, I just, I don't get it, I'm so angry. - Yeah, it was wild, but the most valuable thing coming out of that was like, oh, there is a feminist community, and we are loud, and we are powerful, and we can rally, and really, like, achieve something wonderful. So, we spent the day scrubbing this off, and had amazing conversations with people at the bus, - That's awesome. - Yeah, these two older women, who, and we had this lovely discussion about, yeah, back in my day. - Okay, silver lining, that is very wholesome. - That was like grassroots achievement right there. But yeah, so, it's part of the mission, you just gotta keep rageful, I think, is the answer. - I think, yeah, the anger, I think the anger is a process. Like, you, everyone goes, and I'll talk about this earlier. We, whenever, whatever aspects, anger is like a stage, and I think it's necessary. We need to get angry, but then it's like, okay, where is this anger leading me anywhere? Should I start taking action? Should I be looking at this from a place of understanding? Like, you know, it's complicated. - I know about you, but I find it a lot easier to feel rage on behalf of other people. Like, when it comes to my own experiences, whatever, very hard to put that rage out there, and assert myself, and feel confident in taking up space. And I think that's part of Gashrays as well, is that I feel angry for you, I feel angry for you, and I want us to fight together. It's like creating that community to have a stronger voice. That's what makes you louder, I think. - But then you're turning your rage into, like, actions and actually helping, not like, just-- - Not just shouting into the voice. - Yeah, that feels hopeless, but yeah, a bit of action. - But I think that the first thing you do do is like, you're just powerless, and you feel incompetent. You're like, I'm just angry. And then I think turning that into actions and, you know, goals is very, very powerful and important. - Yeah, I'm with you. - Okay. Okay, we'll finish with the, would you rather, that I need to come up with right now, 'cause it's a retailer to the episode. Would you rather only sculpt, oh. Volvus or penises? - So if he's choice. - So if he's choice. And then I have another one. - Okay, well, it's gotta be Volvus, the OG. - The OG, the gashes. - And they're just so pretty. - It was a plural of gash. - Gashai, I don't know. (laughing) - Okay, they are so pretty. - Yeah, it's beautiful work. - I would say they're a lot more like, flowy and like, wave, like, they remind me of the ocean and shells. - I think it's more artsy. - Yeah. - It's like a flower, yeah, then like a piece. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay, what about online education community or your in-person work? Which is like, the online reaches more people, but in-person is just so rewarding and nice. - Yeah, I'm an introvert. So I do find like, doing the workshops incredibly taxing, like draining, but immediately so gratifying. So I gotta say that. I gotta say that. - Really, I feel like you are gonna save the online community. - No, I'm training myself to get better at that because that is where the love lies, like that eye contact, the sharing of stories is just beautiful. - It is. So whenever someone recognises we in public, I'm like, there's the best day ever. Wait, do you get, of course, you get like, do you love getting DMs? Like, oh my God, this is so helpful. Like, or like, well, also in your workshops, I guess you get them too. But like, isn't it like the best? - It blows my mind. - It's like, this is why I do what I do, yeah. - It's actually like, really, I don't know, but to truly absorb that is like, I can't take credit. You are on your own journey of self-explanation. I'm just like here to enjoy the ride with you, but wow, lovely. - Oh, you're too modest. I'm like, thank you so much. - You're welcome. - You're so welcome. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Awesome. Okay, where can people find you? You're awesome, Mugs, Comrag, Socks. The OG, Comrag. Literally iconic. Where can we find you? - So, Instagram's a bitch, but Instagram @gastrays_ and then the backup account @gastrays_backup. We're really struggling with like shadow banning and censorship right now. - Thank you. - So, all engagement is incredibly appreciated. And then gastrays.com to buy all of your cash. - You're in a few shops around London as well, right? - I'm having a busy month. We've got three markets this month. - This isn't coming out this month, so. - Oh, okay, okay. Well, I've got a- - The permanent ones. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. No permanent ones, I'm in no permanent ones. But- - Hey, let's change that. - I know, I really want that. - Yeah, that'd be so fun. - One day, one day. But yeah, markets happen regularly, workshops happen regularly, so yeah. - Yeah, check it out. And any exciting projects coming up that you wanna share? Is that, well, you shared the jewelry. - Yeah, I've got the jewelry coming out. - I'm having a brain fart. Oh, and some thongs, some thongs in the work. - Oh, thongs. - Yeah, some slightly little thongs. - With the marks, like the drawings and stuff, or you? - No, it's gonna be so- - This is coming out in months, so you can share. - Okay, well, currently they're called holy thongs. We're working on some slightly little thongs with ceramic pendants. That's the mission. - Like, on the front? - I'm not revealing anymore. - Okay, okay, this too much, too much. That's full fun. - Yeah, we'll see. - I love it. - We'll see, we'll see us early days. - Okay, well, hopefully. - Yeah. - I'll just, I will plug it in if it's ready by then. - Nice, nice, good day. - Awesome. Thank you so much for coming. - Thank you. - Are you ready to turn off the lights? - Let's do this.