You know, it's even better than drinking a delicious international delight iced coffee, winning a brand new car to drink it in. Visit InternationalDelightCarsweeps.com for rules, and enter through November 10th for your chance to win a new car plus a year's supply of iced coffee. Now for just necessary, here's where the product awarded its product in coupons, valued at $978.20, opened a legal residence of US and DC, excluding Alaska, Connecticut, New Jersey, Nevada, Hawaii, Tennessee, and Wisconsin, who were at least 18 in age of majority and October 10, 2024, sponsored by the known U.S.L.C. for official rules, visit InternationalDelightCarsweeps.com. Welcome back to another edition of the Disney Dish podcast with Jim Hill. It's me, Lantasta, and this is our show for the week of Shimmer's Day, September 23rd, 2024, on the show today in the news, new DCL details for the Disney treasure. In surveys, Disney wants to know if you're actively on fire. And special guest Ricky Devler Jr. from Palmas Restaurant Group is here to talk about the restaurants and bars they run in Walt Disney World. Then in our main segment, Jim finishes up the history of Disney's Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Let's get started by bringing in the man who says it's time to let go of those Taco Bell sauce packets from 2013 that are in your silverware drawer. Really? It's Mr. Jim Hill. Jim, how's it going? It's going well, Lant, but it's funny you bring up those sauce packets because every time I go through the drive through a Taco Bell, I have the exact same experience, the very same conversation. The guy or gal, work in the window, takes my PayPal card and says, "Any sauce with today's order?" And I always say no. They didn't hand me my-- again, I'm from New Hampshire. We don't do hot things. So they hand me the bag of food in my receipt, I drive off, and when I get home, well, there's my food plus three packets of sauce in the bottom of the bag and 1,500 napkins. Well, at least that part didn't know you. Well, no, I didn't exactly. You know what you said, but it's the thing that I must have this face that says to Taco Bell employees, A, I'm lying about my sauce needs and I'm also a terrible, terrible slob. So when you get the chance, stuff the equivalent of a drop cloth in with my food. I think their motto should be Taco Bell. We know you. No, we're not. All right, Jim, let's do a quick shout out to our subscribers. Thanks to everyone who subscribes to the show over at patreon.com/gmailmedia, including Peter Loose, Michael Stuver, Carlos Villar-Vincencio, Sarah Spencer, Derron Johnson, and Steel Diver. Jim, these are the new college program magicians over at the Boardwalk Inn's Abra Katabar. They say their summer is off to a great start. They've met a lot of great people and they're really learning to hone their craft, especially the part about making sure the guests have settled their bills before attempting the sawing in half and disappearing from a box tricks, which can really affect the tip pool at the end of the night. True story. Okay. Okay. I'm going to saw you in half, but just I just need to run this credit card first. You go on to the news folks. The news is sponsored by Turingplans.com. Turingplans helps you save time and money at theme parks like Walt Disney World to check us out. It's Turingplans.com. All right, Jim news just broke the day before we're recording this that area 15 has canceled its plans to come to Orlando. They're called they had paid around $24 million in 2022 for 16 and a half acres just off of I for halfway between Disney Springs and SeaWorld. These are the folks Jim that run, they run a place in Vegas that I've been to if you've been to it. Right? No, I've heard about it. It's supposedly amazing. Yeah. So it's a sort of like an adult bar entertainment complex kind of like what I think Disney Disney's pleasure island would have evolved to. Yeah. But it has like Meow Wolf is there with Omega Mart, which is one of the great interactive spaces in the United States was kind of excited to see them come here. But they bought the land in 2022, literally done no development with it. And I think Jim with Epic Universe opening up next year and Disney looking to expand. It could be that they just want to sell the land and take the money and run. Okay. My question is what became of the robot? Exactly, they had installed a giant robot as a symbol of their their intention to build here. And the robot's gone apparently. Okay. So somebody came gave it a pink slip. It's just wandering the country now. I do. Okay. It's probably irritated too. So let's let's watch after. There we go. Okay. All right. Pickersville says a new menu over in Frontierland. Jim. The two cheeseburger options have been replaced with one and that one Jim I'd like you take on this, the double chili con queso burger, which is two hamburgers smothered in chili con carne and chipotle queso with corn chips because we're not allowed to say Fritos. Mm hmm. I, well, okay, suddenly my 1500 napkins come in handy. Exactly. Do you, I'm guessing you, you eat this after big thunder, but yeah, yeah, yeah, that's going to be a question they asked you at the register or on on mobile order now, right? Yeah. And more to the point that do they direct you to the splash zone in the restaurant because I would imagine you bite in and then cover everyone else at your table with that much queso. Holy cow. Sounds delightful. I'm going tomorrow with Chrissy. It's going to be great. Okay. All right. Also the, the fajitas have been replaced with bowls. So think a pickles bills of such lee here. So steam tamale, a nacho bowl, a Southwest Caesar salad and a rice bowl with your choice of proteins, green chili pork, cherry, coke, braised beef and then citrus to put a chicken. There's a vegan option as well. It's a grilled flatbread with sweet potatoes, pinto beans and more and a plant based pepper jack cheese. So be excited to try this out. I, I, now correct me if I'm wrong. This is the place that is going to share the kitchen with the new pirate steam bar up the hill. Is that correct? That's what I think that the kitchen is going to come out of there. And I think they're still going to have to move stuff around to get or walk across Adventureland to get some of that stuff there. But yeah, that's the general idea. I think. Wow. Okay. Just kind of intrigued that they're changing their menu out ahead of that place opening. So yeah. All right. Interesting. Well, again, let the love to hear, you know, how you and Chrissy do when you check out the new menu. And I think the, the bowl thing is, is a no brainer. Picker spells is not very highly rated in the magic kingdom, but setually canteen is. So it would make sense to bring that concept over to the magic kingdom. True. All right. So the DCL recently previewed some food and merch options for the upcoming Disney treasure, as well as costuming for the crew and DCL cast members. Some of the food served was from the cocoa themed main dining room Plaza Decoco, that I'm told the tamales and the tres leches were good. Also, there's a tequila flight available for dinner. The serving glasses are very festive in Jim. That is the reason why I'm going to order the tequila flight. That is the reason Jim. Okay. Okay. Also, the haunted mansion bar stuff looks amazing. And I can imagine the treasure is going to have all of its holds full with the merchandise that they're going to sell there. We already knew there'd be a souvenir mug for the haunted mansion characters of the mariner and the bride. But there's also a two glass huge holder that is bat themed and looks like a candelabra and Jim. I think we need to do a public safety message here and say you don't have to buy all the drinks on the same night of your cruise to get the souvenir mugs. So pace yourself, folks. It's just it's going to be interesting watching all the people go on to the treasure with that rolled a bubble wrap exactly, bringing the extra suitcase just for the haunted mansion merch. There we go. There we go. I wonder if these are going to make their way to the Magic Kingdom or if that's going to be something where you have to book the five thousand dollar careers to get the to get the mug. Yeah. Speaking of DCL, our friend and minor reader who can't read mine's Chris Cox and said he'll be on the Disney dream in 2025. So 27th of January, a five night Bahamas with stops at castaway key and last point, then a February 1st, five night Western Caribbean, then a February 24th, five night Bahamas again. Those are both Marvel day at seas, both of those Bahamas cruises. And then finally March 1st, another five night Western Caribbean Chris is also on tour across the United States this fall. Jim, have you seen the show? The illusion. No, but Chris is one of my favorites and I love that he's, well, what is this? This is the magic of the holidays tour, right? Right. The illusionist magic of the holidays. I've actually seen this show. I saw it last year and Chris is, Chris is amazing. He, you know, he's our friend at all. He is really the highlight of the show. His, his act is, I think, the best of the acts and they're all good. But I don't know how he does what he, what he does the tricks. I'm assuming he's harnessing the occult here. Well, there we go. And it's good that he's doing that rather than just like, you know, moving all of our bathroom stuff one inch to the left every morning and to give you this. Okay. Visit magiccocks.com or show and to take it information there. Good. All right. Onto surveys. Jim, a couple of surveys here I want to get your input on. Our friend, Jeff Klune, got this question in an Epcot survey last week. So the question is this. How much do you agree or disagree with the statement? It's important to stay together with my group during the entirety of our visit to Epcot. And the answers range from strongly agree to strongly disagree. Jim, why the, why the asking about whether you need to stay together? Well, this is, this is, it's a sort of question you only get asked in 2024 where you think about it. You are in the park on your phone communicating with your friend who's on the other side of World Showcase lagoon, but it's like literally shopping for you. The effect of sending you photos. I mean, it's a different age and the whole notion that for so many people, they feel connected with the folks that vacationing with even if they're not even in the same park, but if they're back at the hotel or across property in the kingdom or that sort of thing. So it's just the notion of, all right. So what would, what can we do if this is now something that people are genuinely comfortable with that they're on vacation? Think of this. Yeah. Yeah. So young, young people who want to be in the same park, but not necessarily doing the same thing all the time. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. This is the, this is the alone together idea, right? There we go. There we go. Interesting. Yeah. So this is a demographic thing. I'd love to see the answers to this. But also Mackenzie Negri and others sent in a new Disney survey that asks why you chose to visit when you did and why you didn't visit during other times of the year. So one of the initial questions is, is this for which, if any of the following reasons, are you planning to visit Walt Disney World in the month you're planning to visit as opposed to other times of the year? So answers are things like other central Florida attractions or events. It's a recommended time to visit. It's better prices after hours events, escaping cold weather where I live, you know, things like that, personal special occasions, lower crowd levels and so on. So Jim, if you, if you were to categorize all of the answers available on that screen, which I did, you'll note this, three of the choices were related to weather. Three of them were related to special events that Disney offers. Two were best time for everyone involved. One was prices and one was crowds. I, I have to, I am intrigued that weather is right up there with special events that face it. For example, if we're talking about Epcot between food and wine, flowering garden, a festival with holidays, that those are always a festival. There we go. But, but you're the one who's repeatedly brought up what's been going on with climate change and just sort of looking over the horizon 20, 25 years to what Florida is going to be like then and the notion of, hey, I'm flying out of Southern California where it's, it's been 105 for two weeks to go to Florida, where it's, it's a, it's a balmy, 102. Whoo. He's pretty jacked. Exactly. There we go. All right. There's a series of questions that include one and two month ranges asking if you'd be willing to visit during this time. So the question goes like this, thinking about when you'd generally be interested in visiting Walt Disney World, how do you feel about visiting during this time of the year? And so the first range is January, February, and you get choices like, oh, that's an ideal time to visit or consider visiting, but it's not ideal. And then the third option is I am absolutely not coming during that time of the year, right? Okay. And so if you say that it's an ideal time of year to visit, like for example, if you're a school teacher and you only have summers off, you get a follow up question like this. And Jim, I want to, I want to talk about this. Okay. Which of the following would you consider to be the main benefits of visiting the Walt Disney World Resort in June through August and Jim? Yep. The first choice is other central Florida attractions or events. But the second choice is I'm escaping hot weather where I live. And I just want to know some basic demographic information about the people who say they want to visit Central Florida in July to escape the hot weather where they live. Like, are you actively on fire at home when you're answering this question? Like, who, who, who, who say is this, it's got to be a joke answer, right? It's got to be like, ah, yeah, these people are crazy. Well, maybe that was giving me that weather where I live on Mars. Like, oh, we have a lovely condo on Cracatoa, like, you know, like, what is this? I need to see this. I mean, I don't ask for much, but I would like to see this results here. Absolutely. All right. And then there's a series of questions about where you'd like to go during different times of the year if you're not going to Walt Disney World and the options are things like all inclusive resorts, Hawaii, which Jim, I happen to note that there's a Disney resort in Hawaii. Another option that right next one is cruises, Jim, Disney operates a cruise line, US beaches are short, I mean, Florida, a country outside the US excluding cruises. I happen to note Jim that Disney operates adventures by Disney, which visits countries outside the United States without cruises, US national parks, ABD visits national parks like Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Arches and Denali, major Northern US city. Okay. So they don't go to New York or Chicago yet. Major Southern US city and they specifically give Los Angeles as an example. I note that ABD visits Los Angeles and then none of these. So is this, Jim, is this a marketing question here? It just, it feels like a safe cracker at work here. Exactly. I will get in that wallet somehow just sort of like a Vanessa dial here. See what it is that they actually want. So wow, always nice to see Disney exercising. It's cradle the grave program here, so, so. All right, Vanessa, we've got time for one quick listener question. This one's from Zven Popogay, who says, "We're traveling to the Disney Land Resort next year in February. We're wondering when the 70th celebration will start. I presume it'll be too early, but maybe some merch will be available. Jim, do you have any idea when the 70th celebration starts in Disneyland? Oh, what's kind of interesting and remember, we're recording this in late September. By now, we should have heard about Disney doing what they have in the works for their 70th. And I am kind of intrigued that we're basically hearing nothing. Nothing yet, right. Yeah. I mean, mind you. Is it that they want to work at Tiana first in 2024 before skipping to 2025? Yeah. I think, face it, the fact that Tiana is running as late as it is not to mention what's going on with the mansion, with its new carriage house merch location. There's a lot of stuff that's already in the works for next year. To answer Zven's question here, don't worry about the merch. It's Disney. They'll definitely be 70th merch, but beyond that. I think the whole idea is like it's Disneyland. It's DCA. It's already special. Come. Come. Enjoy. Exactly. I mean, I expect the official kickoff. So the anniversary is in July. Yeah. They'll probably start it at a couple of months early. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, and remember, we have seen just this past summer, the together forever, the Pixar pals celebration. All right. We'll see something along those lines, but nothing. And what's kind of interesting is I've heard from folks internally at Disney 75 they think of as a big anniversary, but not so much. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. Fantastic. All right. And our special guest today is Ricky Debler Jr, Vice President of Business Development for Palmas Restaurant Group. Palmas Restaurant Group operates more than a dozen dining locations in Walt Disney World, including the Mexico Pavilion and Upcut, Maya Gorilla Coronado Springs, and Fartira Cucina at Disney Springs with Rick Bayless. Welcome to the show, Ricky. One of the days. Good morning. Glad to have you here. So, Ricky, on a day-to-day basis, what kind of things does a VP of business development do? It's beautiful to say that I have probably one of the coolest experiences and what I do professionally is to work within the worlds of Walt Disney. And within Walt Disney, we have amazing outlets and experiences that are known globally by many guests around the world. What I focus on is continuing to develop our story of Palmas Restaurant Group within the bigger story of Walt Disney. And as any storyteller goes, it always begins from where we first started. And our early roots in Mexico City, which I know we'll talk more in great detail later on. My focus is to always have a strategic development, how we leverage our existing locations, how we continue to find new, innovative ways to create authentic experiences and our outlets, and as well to continue to be an extension of not only our family-run business, but as well to continue to build on the legacy in each of our outlets. So it's fun to bounce around between Epcot, Disney Springs, as well as Coronado Springs Resort. So I'm very dynamic and it's such a pleasure to be in all those locations. I imagine you know your way around property very, very well by now. Well, it's funny because, you know, over the years, you know, with characters, each character kind of has an evolution in my own character development. I'm now seeing wearing a cowboy hat a lot. So you might see-- I was going to ask you about that, yeah, I was going to-- Yeah. Yeah. So it's been a few years now where I've been wearing going for this look. And as you know, here in Florida, it's very bright. It's very sunny. Yeah, it definitely does help. So staying cool is very important. But as well, you know, it stays true to the playful nature, you know, the-- as well the storytelling, reminding guests that some of the first cowboys actually came out of Florida, which I was born here in Windermere, Florida. And it also creates a level of play, fun, and everything about Disney is all about having that sense of fun and creativity. I love it. Yeah, a lot of people don't recognize that Central Florida was cow pasture before Disney came in. It certainly was. It certainly was. Plenty of it. Yeah. And there's still some of that left if you look, you know, as far as much as Orlando has developed. So a lot of that is still there. It's funny because when I go to the Magic Kingdom and I go along World Drive on the way into celebration, you'll occasionally see cows on the left and right. I'm like, are these strays? Like, what? Does anyone know these are here? Yeah. They're vacation. Yeah. They flew in from Texas. They're vacationing. Yeah. They're through vacation too. Yeah. That's what we thought. Yeah. They're all on vacation. All right. You mentioned Disney and Palmis coming together to launch the Sun and Yell in Mexico Pavilion. What's the story of how that happened way back in 1982? Like who approached who? What was the original idea? Well, we're going to rewind the clock. All right. We're going to go back to the early '80s and Epcot and all of its development has already established two of its partners, two of its pavilions, Canada to the north and Mexico to the south. And with each of those developments, they were in search for a operator, a participant, to bring those pavilions to life. And the team that went down to Mexico, I think one of the names come to mind. I believe his name was Steve Baker and another gentleman. And out of their research, they were first to see that St. Angelin was the iconic destination within Mexico City. Yes. This is a real restaurant in Mexico City that was operating in 1982. It certainly is. Okay. And it was an operation. Now my grandparents with other partners were able to acquire the Asinda. To this day right now, the Asinda is over 400 years old and it's a historical site and it has a rich history. And my grandparents, among the partners, saw a great vision of what this beautiful Asinda could become. And it is the restaurant that it is and still is today. And that experience in terms of their research and the team that went down there, they provided an invitation and that invitation was to welcome us if we were interested to be part of this project called Epcot. Now my grandfather wasn't so eager about this thing. Really? Orlando wasn't what it is today, what it was then. And the idea of leaving the paradise of what Mexico City was, the beautiful world that they're living in, the culture, the cuisine, the tradition, to leave that all behind wasn't really top of mind. So for all lack of purposes, that invitation was thrown away. Really? And it wasn't until my father, who at this time was very entrepreneurial at a very young age, he already opened a restaurant of his own at a very young age. He'd always been working within the restaurant in Mexico City. And he always had a business mind and focus and in doing so part of his day to day, he would be in my grandfather's office. And in doing so, he noticed a little envelope with a golden Mickey sticking out of the trash. And when you're looking at that out of curiosity, you're going to look at it. You're going to see what is that? And upon unfolding and unraveling what was disposed of, he saw what he saw is the greatest opportunity he will ever had. And he then got together with his right hand man at the time, his name is Pedro. And Pedro retired not too long ago, but he worked over 55 years with us in Mexico as well here in Orlando. So his right hand man and him got together, they called Disney, they were able to then convince my grandparents, my partners and that endeavor to go forward with this opportunity. And he married my mother and they moved to Orlando to begin and open the Mexico Pavilion. And he was very young at the time. My father was only in his young 20s. So you can imagine the level of maturity, the level of responsibility, then to be able to take on such an amazing challenge. So your dad finds the invitation in the trash, convinces your grandparents, it's a good idea, and then moves to a different country to do it? Yes. So I mean, convincing my grandfather was a challenge. And I think with any family, every father wants their son to follow in their footsteps. Or at least carry on their legacy. So my grandfather, in many ways, it was a very difficult thing to see and to behold. And it was a very brave, courageous effort from my dad and my mother to start a whole new life. And my mom had to learn English and she had to begin her whole new life. And they literally put their heart and soul into that project. And that was at the time when the leadership team with Epcot primarily was Dick Nunes, which was a Disney legend. And he really took my dad under his wing and they had an amazing chemistry and a whole different, I guess, dynamic, because then everybody was all hands-on deck. So it was an amazing endeavor to opening up a park of that level and to do it successfully, which is tremendous. I mean, that's the thing. This thing has been a hit right out of the box. It's always been one of the best restaurants, in my opinion, in Epcot. Jim, did you know this story about Dick Nunes? Well, early on, we mentioned Steve Baker. I mean, again, Steve is one of these, like Dick, a Disney lifer. I mean, he actually started out, he was the opening day manager of parking lots at Walter's new world. Yeah. And if we jump ahead to 78, thereabouts, he's the development director for Epcot. So he's the guy who's going out making these relationships, so the notion that out of all of the restaurants in Mexico, he zeroes in on your dad's setup and it's like, "This is the one. This is what we want. This is what we need to bring to Florida." Yeah. I mean, it was such an amazing time, but it was also, you can't remember, it was a green field. You had to build this thing from the ground up and that, in and of itself, the notion of, okay, what sort of kitchen are you actually going to physically need on site here to do this? There's so many interesting aspects to this story. That's a great story. I didn't realize it went all the way back. That's fantastic. All right. Let me ask you this next question and I'm going to get to my favorite topic, which is LaCava. LaCava opened in 2009, just celebrated its quince in Europe. Congratulations. Thank you. LaCava has probably started planning for LaCava several years before 2009 because that's just how Disney works. But back then, if you do the market research, Tequila wasn't all that popular in the United States. In fact, it sold less than cognac. It was not a popular drink. What did your team see in Tequila specifically that made you think that, hey, Tequila is going to hit, but not only that, but to come up with LaCava, which is now the model for theme bars all around Walt Disney World, I don't care if it's Tudor, Gusto, or Abracadabra at the Boardwalk, LaCava is basically the model, the thing that started it. What did the team see way back before anyone else in Tequila? It requires a lot of imagination because, as you said, the writing wasn't on the walls. The data wasn't leaning heavily in that direction. What happens is with each of our outlets and each of our locations, there's always opportunities to re-imagine, to innovate, to provide more authentic experiences. And part of that was re-imagining some of our existing spaces that we had within the pavilion. Because this was, it was retail before that, right? It was a retail spot. It was actually the retail spot for Aribas. Aribas, right, yeah. And Aribas, they go way back, so when it comes to participants, and if you're not sure what participants it for our audience, we're not familiar with that term, a participant is a third party vendor that works within Disney, and we're one of the first of the few that were part of the participant experience within Disney. So we have a long history, and there was this discussion of what would happen if we were to take, let's say, use that space, that retail space, and develop a brand new concept, and then their space would be relocated across the marketplace. And everything has synergy and story, because around the same time, we were then expanding our quick service, which was cantina at the time. And that location for the volume and for the level of attendance, the popularity, we needed to expand and provide the necessary resources, and in doing so, we came up with a very clever idea of actually creating a new sit-down experience utilizing the kitchen for both the TSR, which stands for table service restaurant, and the QSR, which stands for the quick service restaurant. And so part of that story of La Sienda, which is the table service restaurant there, we wanted to create this cellar where the the the asinda owners would take their guests to celebrate and to enjoy the finest spirits that the asinda owner would have. And that's where the story began, and every concept, every idea always begins with very strong storytelling motives, and part of Mexico, and where we come from with Tequila, is very historical, Tequila is very an integral part of our history, it's very integral part of our identity, and as well the experience in the story has in many ways has been misunderstood for so many years, because people had this perception of Tequila, while there was this huge vast world of quality products history that we felt very compelled to tell. Yeah, it just wasn't making it to the United States, yeah. And the American consumer, for all lack of purposes, their experiences were these mixed though, Tequila, which weren't really considered a Tequila, it's a blend, there's a lot of these other components, it really leads to a very bad hangover, but the market really was demanding for this quality product. So when we first created the concept, the idea, I would say confidently, we didn't have many people thinking that it was going to be a success, because the thing though is that we were very expansive in the concept, the concept was not specifically just selling or providing five Tequila brands or products, now we were wanting to go all in, and that's kind of like the model, I guess you can say about Palmas is that we always go all in when it comes to our endeavors, just like taking that opportunity of going all in from Mexico City to Orlando. We went all in with the Tequila concept, which was to tell the story of all the chelas. And that would be a list at the time, which was over 200 Agave spirits. And bear in mind, we're in a family environment. We always focus on our family unit, we always focus on our young guests, but for us to create that level of experience in such a, in that environment, there was a lot of concern, you know, would it do well, can it be actually, could it actually be done appropriately? Yeah, because at this time, alcohol wasn't being served in the Magic Kingdom at all. And Epcot's had wine, but still Disney was sort of, to your point, Disney was sort of touchy about how does alcohol and theme park guest mix? Yeah. It was a difficult, literally no pun intended, right? Yeah. You know, it's, you know, how all this mixes, and I remember there was eras where we were not allowed to have the alcohol leave our premise at Epcot, where it only could be consumed within the actual outlet. So no drinks were able to be, be allowed to be left from the premises. So we actually had people that would actually ensure and monitor no drinks were going to be leaving our pavilion at one period of time. So I mean, it was a very unique evolution of how alcohol continues to be celebrated and enjoyed, but for us, it's always about authenticity and storytelling. So with all this ideas that we put together and we presented this idea, people thought we were truly crazy. You know, how would you be able to sell all these different agave spirits to a market that only probably only knows one or two? And not only that, but the space was very small. So you know, base off of, if you're in business, you're always creating a what is called a forma and you look at a performer, and you would probably not anticipate this to do more than than than what the space allows it to do like 50, 53 people, 58 people, something like that. Oh, yeah. I mean, we're looking it's less than 1000 square feet, you know, maybe 850 or so. It's a small venue. I mean, there's, I mean, it's a very small venue. And so the anticipation, the dynamics, you know, it wasn't on the promenade. So when it came to a glow up, when it came to a what this became, nobody had any idea that it was going to be to this level of success. And it was a tremendous success. And it really started for the first thing that comes with most things is finding the right people. And we were able to be very lucky in that, in that endeavor with the team that we created behind the concept. All right. So I want to talk to you about that because I've said on the show before that people is what makes, makes like a great, I mean, anyone can pour. Drinks, but you guys have a lot of people like Hilda and Javier and Berto Christina, even Pepe behind the bar, right? And, and I have stories that I'm not going to say on the show because they're not appropriate, but those, those are some fantastic people. And, and I think the thing that sets them apart is for those folks, it's more than a job. Right. So, because they, they love what they do and they love, you know, sharing the, the story of tequila. What do you, you know, as the employer go about finding people like that, and then convince them to come to Florida because everyone's from tequila, right? Everyone's from Jalisco, right? So we're, we're, what do you look for in an interview like that? Hey, you want to come to Florida? Like. Yeah. So, I mean, like this, as we, we kind of went through the, the inception, the idea, you know, a lot of, we were kind of an uncharted territory. You know, we weren't modeling off of any existing location. Because there was none. You weren't modeling. There was none. Eventually we were an uncharted territory and you, you kind of stumble upon the ideas organically and the idea came forth with this idea of a tequila ambassador. And these tequila ambassadors would serve as the true representatives of not only having the knowledge and the know how, but as well to represent Mexico and to represent the history of tequila and my father and as we are at Palmas, a family run business, my father was the one who went forth and started these interviews with regards to finding these tequila ambassadors and, and these interviews came literally out of a sporadic moment of us during our travels in Mexico being able to get acquainted with Ilda. Right. And, and it was one of those things where we were, we made our travel arrangements. We made it work. She drove multi hours to meet us where we were. And here we have Ilda, you know, sitting down, you know, and she had an extensive career with tequila already. She was her first job was at Quervo, right? She was very well known in Quervo and she, and, and here she is, you know, and we had this very candid interview and with regards to, you know, what would, would you be interested in this brand new endeavor and, and she's made a definitive yes and she made a definitive promise to trust us in all of this because a lot of this is trust and with everything with family, it begins with trust and so we, we took forth that trust and, and as well with Umberto and we went forth and, and we created to like, all around this amazing team of tequila ambassadors and then as well with our team and our beverage development in our beverage director Javier Villegas, he put forth his heart and his soul into the concept. He put forth as well that sense of trust with his team trust and the development of those relationships with our guests and it became a unique evolution because each of these characters in the story of La Cava adds more depth when it came forth from our mixologist, our beverage team development, creating these iconic margaritas as we all love today, ranging from the avocado margarita and a few other classics and it just became this amazing creative expression where in many ways, we felt so compelled to be the leaders in the space and also, you know, with the people around that, a lot of the opening team, we never really had a massive amount of turnover. No, the people that made the concept what it is today and especially with this idea of family is, you know, when it's the scene that familiar face is that first name basis and a place like, you know, we're in our location within Disney, we're serving thousands upon thousands upon thousands of guests daily and to be able to have that sense of familiarity, that sense of family is very hard to find, especially for whether you're a local market guests, if you're traveling from afar or you're a regular that comes once a year, finding that sense of family is quite challenging and be able to create that in such a small little place was a beautiful gem. I'm surprised you even attempted it because like, when I first started going to La Cava, Hilda recognized me after about like my third or fourth visit, I wasn't even living in Florida at the time, but I was like, this, it's got to be so difficult to do that that most people don't even try. And yet here was like, oh, this is my fourth trip back to, you know, La Cava and somebody is welcoming me back and it's fantastic. And then we develop our, yeah, we have our sense of regulars and we welcome you into our family and just like Pepe, one of our bartenders in La Cava has become iconic. Oh, yeah, and so it's amazing how we all become our own characters in this amazing story. And it doesn't become work, it becomes a sense of play, it becomes a sense of pride and a sense of distinguishment, you know, and we never really set ourselves out to win awards or to get prestige. A lot of it just came from just the sense of joy and the sense of making sure every product ingredient meets our standards. And so we didn't cut any corners and also to be able to achieve this at scale, you know, because it's one thing to create a elevated bar experience for only a select few, but to be able to do this consistently for the masses is tremendous. You mentioned earlier, La Canda, how, and so you run the San Angeli in this sit down restaurant inside the pavilion, La Canda, which is outside and it shares a kitchen with cantina, right? Right. How would you describe the difference between San Angeli and La Canda? So with everything about where our story began, it began in San Angeli in Mexico City and San Angeli is meant to capture what we have in Mexico City. Now when it comes to bringing forth that richness of the agenda, the history, the gardens, it's difficult to do that in the sense of where we are located. But what we do have is a beautiful setting. We're in a beautiful marketplace. I call it perpetual twilight and you have that a beautiful oversight. I mean, we don't really get a good tan in there. That's for sure. You can tell we're not working there more than others. Yeah, the cowboy hat won't really provide much shade in there. And it's also candle lit. So when it comes to locations, now it is no longer candle lit at this moment of recording. We did transition to LEDs. But we had that for many, many years. We were one of the only candle lit restaurants on property. And San Angeli is meant to capture the classics of Mexico City. It's meant to capture the classics of what we're known in Mexico City. It's meant to capture the dishes that guests love as well. And it's also a very interesting intersection because to be 100% authentic could be off setting. It could be out of place because you need to also meet your market in a way where it's also approachable and as well welcoming. So the dishes that they're meant to capture the authentic quality of the Mexican kitchen and as well as our restaurant, but as well to be also friendly and welcoming. Now, with regards to Acienda, that was a unique opportunity for us to be more expressive, more creative, contemporary, finding new ways of celebrating those flavors that we love of Mexico. But from a place of vibrancy, a sense of family sharing, these beautiful battle yadas, as well as unique entertainment in the sense that you can enjoy the fireworks show now from the comfort of your table. And not all seats have firework viewing, but a majority do. So La Cine became this new way of progressively creating newer styles of dishes and a more contemporary style. That's a good answer. And Palmas also runs Frantira Kachina at Disney Springs with Chef Rick Bayless, right? Right. So with regards to, you know, we all remember downtown Disney and we all remember what was Pleasure Island and downtown. I know for a fact, you're too young. I think it's characters have no age, right? Okay. Yeah, your dad tells you about this, but go ahead. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah, there's stories to be told, right? And a lot of wisdom to be learned. And we learned a lot, you know, we learned a lot about what really resonated with our with the guests here that visit. And it had to be reimagined. And part of that reimagination of downtown Disney was to bring forth celebrity chefs, chefs with a lot of recognition, distinction. And when this was being discussed, we've had this longstanding relationship with Rick Bayless as he was a regular of ours and San Angelina in Mexico City. Oh, do you know that? Oh, okay. So a part of his, you know, endeavors and his adventures brought him to our restaurant. Okay. And he's filmed some of his episodes at our restaurant. Oh. And we we always would visit him in Chicago. And we would always go to Chicago for many functions yearly. It would be for the National Restaurant Association Convention. And it was always a great time to always work and see and be affiliated with that sense of what is happening in his world. And he's always been an educator, always a great ambassador in Mexico. And after a few phone calls, we were able to get a project moving. And we were luckily be able to be part of the new Disney Springs expansion. And we were able to create this new concept, which is called Ferrantera Cosina. So that was an amazing partnership. And also, the funny story is also the fact that with all of us in our family business, we're all named Rick, my father's name, Ricky, my I'm named Ricky. And then now here we are working with another Rick. It just makes it easier to print the t-shirts, right? Take all the shirts and just do the stitching. It really does. It really, yeah, if your name is Rick, there's a good chance we might work with you. All right. So when so when Rick Bayless proposes something like his Oaxacan menu, which included dried crickets, what's the process by which you go? Yeah, people in Orlando are ready for this. Like, because I tried it and it was fabulous. Yeah, there's a funny story because, you know, we have our history. We've been here for for many, many years. So we kind of in some ways brought forth our best practices and he would bring his best practices. And we combine both and he comes from a place of integral authenticity, staying true to the cuisine. So one thing, for example, just to answer your question about, you know, how do you go about some of these dishes and how do you get guests to be so adventurous is that Rick does not sugar coat things. He leaves as it is. And one of the things, a good example, will be the Habanero salsa that we had. And this was to accompany one of our dishes. And this is pure Habanero. Whoo! I mean, it is like 99.9%. It's not really diluted in any sense. I may have some orange juice to kind of provide some sweetness to it, but it is a pure hot sauce. And for us, you know, as I mentioned earlier, we're very mindful of our young guests in the sense that accidents happen. And we were concerned that what would happen if a young child accidentally thought it was a mild salsa and tried it. And Rick was very adamant about the idea that we have to be true to what it is. And so we still have the hot sauce there. And with all these dishes, we say true to what they are. And guests in many ways, it's our duty and it's our team's duty to guide our guests into this state of adventure. And the way you provide that is through our storytelling, recognizing our guests concerns, because it may not be their first time, you know, or could be their first time. And you're guiding our guests as they try forth the new elements of insects, for example, while for all of us in other parts of the world is very normal, here it may not be. In the same sense, me wearing a cowboy hat in Texas might be normal, maybe not so much in Orlando. So it's getting people acquainted with certain these flavors and these profiles. And it's just at the end of the day, we're not going to rewrite history. We're going to be true to history. And there's times we may adapt things here and there. And it's perhaps specific to supply chain, staying true to our standards, with regards to ecological, sustainable sourcing, farming. But it's always very fun when I see guests try their first cricket. And the key is not to look at the cricket, don't look at the cricket, just eat the cricket. Yeah. Yeah. And there's always a very playful way of getting guests to try it. And it's always a fun adventure with each of our guests. As for many times, it's not the fact that you had a cricket or not. It's about creating unique, unforgettable memories. And people definitely remember that. Jim, have you tried the Habanero associate? I have not. Again, that's the problem is I'm from New England. So my idea of being adventurous is literally mild salsa. I'm a complete wimp. So the very thing he just described about the super hot sauce that the terrified will fall into the hand of a child. I'm that child. You're the child. I remember the first time I had an Habanero. And I mean, I remember where I was when I when I ate it. I remember biting into it. And for like a 10th of a second, you could taste like the fruitiness of the pepper before then you started screaming an agony. But if you can distill the flavor of it, you can get past the heat. It's a lovely flavor. It's very unique for a pepper. Yeah. A lot of the locals, the way they enjoy the pepper is they take the actual pepper itself and they'll nibble in between bites to instill the sense of vibrancy. And also from the state of nutrition, people don't realize a lot of people don't realize that vitamin C and peppers. Exactly. We're preventing scurvy. Here's what we're doing. Yeah. Right. So in terms of, you know, keeping your immune systems strong peppers, that's it. That's what we're going with. And why and why get a sauna? You know, you get the same sweating. The health benefits of Habanero. That's what we're talking about. There's a lot of euphoria. There's a lot of euphoria. I feel the need to say that the FDA has not evaluated any of the claims that we've just made on this podcast. It's certainly harder. Right. All right. Last question. You recently launched the Dos Umbras Micheladas, right? At La Cava? Right. Using the Dos Umbras Ms. Cal made by it's Brian Cranston and Aaron Paul, right? The actors? Yeah, the breaking bad guys. Yeah. It's a great Ms. Cal, very balanced. And I know Brian and Aaron have visited La Cava and they've been big proponents of the bar. How do you how do you go about approaching them about working together? You don't just pick up the phone and go get me Brian Cranston, right? I mean, that's we live. We live in a very unique world where, you know, you can connect with people and very unique ways. And social media is part of it. You know, a lot of times, you know, that can begin from a simple message messaging someone on their team and getting to get to be aware of where some of these possibilities might be. And luckily, Epcot is a very highly visited destination. So we always have opportunities to entertain, to wow, and bring people into our world. And with regards to what I've seen from afar is that with regards to what they've done so well and so successful, is that there's a category out there of Dequila and agave spirits of celebrities and celebrity Dequilas. And what happens is right now in the general psyche for the American consumer, if I were to tell you vodka, you can think of a particular brand. If I say whiskey, you can think of a particular brand. Even if I said red wine, there's a particular band, if I say soda and, you know, you go on and on and on. But when you say in this scale, there's not a particular brand that comes to mind. Yeah. And so these two, so that the concept behind dosumbras and what they've done is they launched this amazing campaign, this amazing strategy to meet the customer base, to bring awareness to the product and to become the leader in that category. And, you know, we've seen all these countless other celebrities go about it. And I understand celebrities are very busy. They're their own talent, whether it's music and other endeavors of cinema and Hollywood. But they too put in the time, these two gentlemen put in the time to really go forth and they really embraced it. Yeah, they're doing the legwork. I mean, they're traveling the country, I mean, bar by bar by bar to sell this stuff. Yeah, it's tremendous. And it's so wholeheartedly, it's such a, and they're doing it with such great grace, love, compassion. And then to be honest, you know, we had them over at Frontera Cosina last year with a great activation, which we are doing again this year. Unfortunately, I know we're already sold out unfortunately, I don't want to promote it any further on the 29th, September 29th, right? Correct. So we're going to have a fun, fun, fun activation with regards to bringing that back. And with regards to with a lot of these kind of experiences, you know, we kind of saw firsthand how the moment in which guests were able to see these celebrities firsthand, they were literally watching a real life superstar in front of them. And I was wondering, because I never saw Breaking Bad. And I heard all these Oh, really? These references, I saw all these kind of these comments, you know, Heisenberg this, and you know, Heisenberg that. And I had no idea what they were talking about. You know, and did you go back and watch the series? So I could say for now that I finally, finally finished the series. So now I'm caught up to date. Now I'm up to date. And it's amazing how pop culture has interwined itself within within a lot of people's lives and whether people watch this during the pandemic, whether they watch this at some part of the lives, these characters have become bigger than life. These characters are iconic. And in this in the same way, Disney has its iconic characters. La Calva has become iconic. Oh, yeah. It's become in that same frame of when you think of Epcot, you think of one of these destinations as a must go. It's literally my first question when people say they've been to Epcot, like, did you go to La Calva? First question I asked, like, not did you go on a ride? Have you been to La Calva? And the thing with a lot of this, as like guys, I was mentioning about our first event and meeting the team and meeting them, is that it's very different when you actually see them and you meet them in person. The same thing in regards to going to La Calva for the first time and actually going there. And the same sense of meeting Rick Bayless is that they're exactly as what you may think they are. They're very genuine real experiences and individuals. And it's amazing to meet such genuine people. And at the end of the day, to answer your question how these partnerships are formed, they're just genuine partnerships. We're not being paid. We're not soliciting. All of this is just genuine, real, organic partnerships. And a lot of this just comes from just getting that opportunity, that awareness, whether it's through social media, through the La Calva Instagram, all of these things just have very genuine, organic roots. It's really great to hear that these are normal people that you're dealing with. And because you guys just do such a great job in, like I said, Hilda and Javier and Alberto and everyone, I mean, they're regular people as well. They're just celebrities inside the bar. So that's fantastic to hear. Yeah, and it's an interesting getaway. I mean, I think for a lot of guests, you're in such a busy environment with so many people, with so many places to go. And as I mentioned about perpetual twilight is kind of the theme of the pavilion as you go in. When you go into La Calva, I mean, you can lose track of time. That's never happened to me. Not even once. No. Right. I'd like to talk to you about better Wi-Fi so it can actually work from home there, but separate conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And it's fun to see its evolution. But I learned to realize that when you create an environment with low ceilings, it creates a whole sense of time dilation. Time tends to feel like it can last forever. And you can be there without, you know, you can have a whole different sense of escapism from the park. And it's fun to see the evolution, but part of me is also kind of waiting to see what will come next. And with regards to La Calva was always meant to be a sit down experience. It was always meant to be a place for you to be able to enjoy our fine selection, get to meet our extravagant team, and to enjoy it at a very pleasant pace. But I know with all the demand and where things have gone, as well as festivals, you know, we've moved towards a more of a chugo system as well, which was never the original intention of our location there. Yeah, but with the festivals and everything, that's the, that's sort of the demand that you've got to do, because the lines can be an hour sometimes to get into La Calva. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's no lightning lane, right? There's no lightning lane. Don't give them any ideas, Ricky. Don't give them any ideas. Yeah, the only thing about lightning lane that I would suggest is which would be our own version of it. It's kind of like a virtual queue, in a sense, with regards to the La Calva agave tasting experience. And we do have that now, seven days, this term with the festival and food and wine, where you're able to get a one hour agave tasting experience with our amazing tequila ambassador, which is umberto for the majority of them. Yeah. And you get to get this truly one-on-one type of experience. It's a very intimate setting, and you're really able to dive deeper and deeper into your love of agave spirits, whether it's tequila or miscalar bill. I've done this a few times, and I say, this is honest to God's truth. Every single time I do this experience, I learn something new about agave spirits. It is fantastic. Yeah, we need to put an in-ride. We need to put an in-ride kind of like a photo. Yeah. This is literally why you're the VP of business development. You have the ideas, dude. You have all the good ideas. We got to capture the magic. No, it is fantastic. Also, umberto somehow has not aged a day since I've known him for 15 years. Like, is that the agave? It's got to be, right? So we haven't been able to identify the secret, but he does seem to have a secret. And what I would say is that with regards to some things in life, there's always mysteries. And I think if I could speak on behalf of umberto, what I would say is not really much of a mystery, I would say is that he really enjoys what he does. And I think maybe that's the secret. When it comes to a lot of this dynamic of youthfulness, the sense of staying young, and it's true, he has an age today. I mean, it's incredible. I first met him. I'm like, you're 12. How can you work in a bar? Like, what are you doing here? And it comes from a very large family from Tequila. But I mean, the thing is to answer that mystery and that sense of youth. It's really the sense of enjoying what you do. And he takes so much pride and enjoys what he does. And I think that's the secret of youth is to enjoy and be playful in what you do. And we can book the agave experience on the Disney website, right? Correct. So you can go through the Disney experience app. You can find that within one of the options. Right now during food and wine, we do have it available all throughout the week. And then we will adjust that accordingly, seasonally, and as well potentially add more to the experience in the near future. So there is some possibilities of continuing to find new ways of engaging the story, the presentation, and as well, theming. That's fantastic. All right. Last question. Where can people find you on social media, Ricky? So interestingly enough, I actually made a challenge for myself this year. That's right. Yes. So I decided from January 1st, 2024 of this year, to December 31st, 2024, to be off of social media. All right. And so rise of right now, the only you can get ahold of me can be email through texts. Or if you see a guy with a cowboy hat, that's the quickest way. But we have a, we have a, however, not to say that I'm not unable to be rich. We do have a great team with Javier Villagas, our beverage director. We do have Sebastian Garcia, which is fantastic with regards to what he's done with all of our marketing and content. Sebastian's great. Yeah. Yeah. So we do have such an amazing team that you can always reach out to and reach out. But so far, it's been a unique challenge of me being away from social media. It's been a good reset. Yeah. And it's been a new way of finding ways to connect and find a level of focus. Because it's such an integral part of our lives. And I think, you know, it takes a while for us to realize how long we've depended on a lot of these forms of communication. And then something you can ignore, it's very, very woven into the way we connect. It's very integrated into the way we do business. And they're fantastic tools, whether it's utilizing YouTube, as we are here with a podcast, it really connects the world. Yeah, it just, it can be abusive. That's the thing. I'm anxious to hear how the rest of your year goes. So maybe we'll get together in a January, have a drink and talk about it. Certainly. We'll love to. Thanks again for being on the show. I really appreciate it, Ricky. Muchas gracias amigos. Thank you. All right, Jim, we're going to take a quick commercial break now. When we come back, let's continue the history of Frontierland's Big Thunder Mountain. We'll be right back. Today's episode is brought to you by Better Home. Quick question. Well, what's something you'd like to learn? Me. I've always kind of regretted that I never learned a second language, which is why I am so proud of my daughter, Alice, who spent the past six years or so learning to speak and read Japanese. But as they say, never too late to have a happy childhood or for that matter to learn a new skill. But first, of course, you got to be in the right headspace before you can learn something new. 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Well, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Look, long time listeners to this podcast know that I kind of went off the rails during the mid 1990s. I wound up as a divorcee, and then my ex took our daughter home to Hawaii, which given I was living in Massachusetts at the time, made it incredibly tough to be part of Alice's day-to-day life. But I persevered, thanks largely to the therapist I had back then who taught me the skills I needed to get on the other side of that very tough situation. Look, you too deserve to be happy, and if you feel like you need some help with that, well, Better Help can help. So rediscover your curiosity with Better Help. Visit BetterHelp.com/DisneyDish today to get 10% off your first month. Again, that's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com/DisneyDish. We thank them for sponsoring today's show. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com/Results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com/Results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. All right, Jim, I know we had a fairly long interview there, but let's talk about Big Thunder Mountain. Yeah, and again, folks, because we really wanted to indulge Ricky there and learn as much as we could about what the folks at Lacava are up to. Apologize, this feature is going to be a little shorter. Plus, to be honest, I've also decided to put this series about the transformation of the mind trains through Nations Wonderland into Big Thunder on pause after today, because I think 2B blunt. Next year, when work finally begins in earnest on turning Tom Sawyer's Island at the Magic Kingdom into that theme park's Cars Road Rally attraction, I think it's going to be easier for folks to see the parallels between these two projects. Because again, building a giant attraction like this, especially one that you're planning building right on top of a pre-existing ride, that's right in the middle of your park. Honestly, it's not easy. Now, that said, though, Len, I know there are people out there going, wait a minute. Now, the Imagineers were looking to build this in the late mid to late 1970s, and then went in that one Disneyland out in Anaheim, was still closed on Mondays and Tuesdays during the off season. So, I bet that made tearing down mind trains through the Nations Wonderland easy. Says the people who have never experienced a home renovation. Well, but also about that. I'm sure that was the original plan with the folks at 1401 Flowers Street. But then Disneyland managers threw a monkey wrench into that plan. In February of '77, when they announced that Disneyland would be switching to an open seven days a week schedule starting on March 21st. And Len, this was the first time in nearly 20 years that Disneyland had done that. The last time Walt's family fun park had been open seven days a week in the pre-summer season had been back in the winter of 1958. So, most people there had not experienced this? Not at all. And more to the point, that experiment was viewed by the companies of failure, which is why... Really? Yeah, that the very next year, Disney went back to being open just five days a week Wednesday through Sunday during the off season. So, why did this change in the late winter early spring of '77? Bill Long, the then director of marketing explained in an article in the Disneyland line that this change in Disneyland's operating schedules due to increased vacation tourism. And again, I think you're going to find this fascinating. From Western Canada, Portland, Seattle, and Phoenix during the post-Easter season, and to build on this trend, we are planning a strong promotional effort that aims specifically at those markets, not to mention staging some short-term stuff at the park to help bring in the locals. Oh, Jim, I note that this is '77, right? The US Airlines deregulated like within 12 months of this? Just a fortuitous bit of planning there, Mr. Long. There we go. All right. So, with this goal in mind, Disneyland again, in the late winter early spring of '77, stages of the park's first ever Mardi Gras weekends. That was the February 19th through the 21st, not to mention a more elaborate than usual Easter celebration and get that same year. Again, would be nice to say that this experiment, like the one back in '58, was a success, didn't happen. If they had just waited a few more months and they'd have seen airlines. Oh, all right. Okay. September of '77, they revert back to open only five days a week during the off-season. Wouldn't be until February of '85, nearly eight years later that the park finally, officially and permanently, moves to the schedule that it has today. And that was the expressed order of then Disney CEO Michael Eisner. Okay. So, now, just the fact Disneyland is not going to be closed on Monday and Tuesdays in the winter and spring of '77, does complicate the manager's plans for the removal of mind-trained student nature's wonderland, but they still press on with the project. Major demolition is set to begin in May of that same year, '77, and Dave Malanson, the project manager for the mind-trained through nature's wonderland, Big Thunder Mountain, said that after the imagineers had finished their maintenance and salvage survey on this side of Frontierland, it was determined that Cascade Peak, oh, by the way, Cascade Peak, for those of you who don't remember this now missing mountain at Disneyland, was this 75-foot tall mountain that Walt had built right at the edge of the rivers of America back in 1960, when he was changing the park's rainbow cavern mind-trained ride into mind-trained to nature's wonderland. And the mind-trained would roll by the base of this mountain and guess then got a killer view of Cascade Peak's three waterfalls, Big Thunder. By the way, that's where Tony Baxter got the name for the- That's where the name comes from? From Big Thunder. The name Big Thunder comes from Cascade Peak's waterfall. There we go, but there was also the twin sisters. Abigail and Jenny. Well, Jenny's the smart one. There we go, I go. But by the way, it's fairly obvious that Disneyland spiel's back then were written by men. This is talking about Jenny and her sister here. This is how the spiel is. The mind-trained is going by the mountain, describes the two smaller mountains coming off of Cascade Peak. And them other falls, they call the twin sisters. I guess because they're always babbling. It's just like, wow, okay. You know if they had to name them these days, they'd be called the middle-aged male podcasters. There we go, there we go. That's right. That over there, those are the podcasters. There we go. Well, Matt, shut up. Okay. All right, interesting side, Tucker Lynn. When mind-trained through nature's wonderland closed in January '77, Cascade Peak, again, with its three waterfalls, it would remain in place for another 21 years. It wasn't the fall of '98 that a maintenance worker one night wanders inside and realizes the combination of Cascade Peak's mostly made out of plywood construction. And nearly 40 years of exposure to constantly running water had turned this Disneyland mountain into an accident waiting to happen. Wow. From what I've been told, the inner supports of Cascade Peak were so rotten at this point that there was a genuine fear that when the Santa Anas started that year, these are the winds. Yeah, the Southern California seasonal winds that typically blow from October through December, that the fear was that this fall, get 75-foot tall, fall mountain, would just fall over into the rivers of America. And if that would happen when the Mark Twain or the Columbia or even the the Davy Crockett explorer could, who's went by, would have been disaster. And by the way, I know, I know, I didn't mention the Mike King keel boats, the other boat on the rivers of America, Disneyland. That's because, again, removal of Cascade Peak was happening in the fall of 1998. Mike King keel boats actually stopped running at Disneyland, May of the previous year, '97. Anyway, long story short, demo team shows up one night in the fall of 1998. They use a bulldozer, they use a back hole. And they push really hard against the side of the mountain. More to the point, they're trying to make it fall into the park, not into the river. Yeah, because, yeah, you don't want to, you don't want to pick it out of the river. There we go. And, and very successful, you get a controlled demolition, reminds you it takes a better part of a week to clear away all the debris. And then horticulture has to get in there and plant things to make it look like Cascade Peak never ever existed. Although, by the way, Len, if you were ever walking along Big Thunder Trail, heading toward Disneyland's middle entrance to Star Wars Galaxy's Edge, you're coming up from the frontier land side. You will notice to your left, this is a lovely walk. This is a lovely walk. It is, it is, but you will pass on your left upon and what looks like the remains of a railroad trestle and a bit of a rock. I know exactly where this is. I think you pointed this out to me the first time we were in the park together. This is one of my favorite spots in the park. Well, yeah, but this is where mine trained through nature's wonderland after rolling between Cascade Peak and the the edge of the river of America, briefly entered a cave and then entered bear country. In fact, there's a jumping fish effect. Yes, yes, yes. My friend, Guy Selga, points this out to me. Yeah, well, the interesting thing is it's a leftover from bear country. An Easter egg of what used to be part of Frontier Land 47 years ago, but all right. Anyway, back to Mr. Melanson. Again, project manager for Big Thunder. Dave went on to say the construction fence would go up around Disneyland's old mine train sometime in April, but he went on to assure a cast members that Casa del Fritos, the park's Mexican restaurant, would remain in operation for the entire time the west coast version of Big Thunder Railroad was under construction, which given all the time we just spent talking with Ricky about the various Mexican themed restaurants and bars at Walt Disney weren't land. This seems to go to places and either to bring this feature to a close, but come next spring after the construction fence has gone up around the rivers of America at Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom. And those demolition teams are then flattening Tom Cruise Island. We'll pick up the story of the construction of Big Thunder on both the East Coast and the West Coast. And trust me, folks, you're going to see lots of parallels between what's going to happen at the Magic Kingdom in Florida in the spring of 2025 and beyond, and what went on inside of Disneyland back in the spring, a late spring, early summer of 77. Wow. So if you have any photographs of that construction, I'd be super interested to see them. Because one of the questions I have coming up for rivers of America is where they're going to put the construction walls. Like, are they going to put them around Tom Sawyer Island to start and then Dranglegoon? Or are they just going to put up walls all along the Frontierland promenade, which means you can't see into that area at all? Because that's really going to, that's going to get two different fields to the park, depending where they put those walls. Yeah, I mean, my understanding is that Disney's going to bite the bullet on this. And that because the hard reality is rivers of America to make significant progress, it's quickly as possible in this project, rivers of America has to be drained. And yeah, in the notion of people just coming down the street, making the turn off of Liberty Square or coming down the hill from pirates and looking out at that great, empty concrete trough, it's just like, that's not a good show. So my understanding is that they're they're ready in a construction fence that will basically start at Big Thunder and to go all the way around to mansion. And that's big. That's big. But but on the other hand, that then allows them almost from day one, you know, after they've drained that thing to roll the heavy equipment in. And that's a thing. They do, especially with a certain theme park over at Universal Breeding down their neck. They want this project to open sooner rather than later. So they need to make haste. All right, so that'll be interesting to say. All right, folks, that's going to do it for the show today. Thanks to Ricky Dettler Jr. for being on the Disney dish. You can help support our show by subscribing over to patreon.com/gmailmedia where we're posting exclusive shows every week. Our most recent show discusses how Disney handles crisis events like hurricanes. You can find more of Jim at Jimhelmede.com and more of me, Len@toringplans.com. We're produced spectacularly by Eric Chrissy and David Gray, who'll be leading the haunted tours of Hallowell, Maine every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday from now until Halloween, starting at 7 p.m. at the old Hubbard Free Library that's on 2nd Street in beautiful downtown Hallowell, Maine. While Eric and David are doing that, please go on to iTunes and rate our show and tell us what what you'd like to hear next. For Jim, this is Len. We will see you on the next show.
