If you're a creative soul looking for a way to take your photography or event business to the next level without adding more hours to your schedule, you're going to love this inspiring story. Catalina was a wedding photographer working her tail off to make a thousand dollars for weeks of work, but when she added a photo booth to her business, everything changed. She started charging the same amount for just three hours of work, since then she scaled her business to seven figures. Now, if you're thinking, "That sounds like the dream," you need to check out this free masterclass from Photobooth Supply Co. It's called Capture Success, how to turn your creative passion into a six-figure photobooth business. Catalina is going to show you how you can take what you're already passionate about and turn it into a massive profit. You'll learn how you can earn a thousand dollars or more per event with a photobooth rental business. If you're someone who loves creating memories or maybe you've been looking for a fun side hustle, you've got to check this out. Head to photoboothsupplyco.com/goldigger to get your free access and my special promo code. This is your chance to work smarter, create more freedom, and build something truly amazing. That's photoboothsupplyco.com/goldigger. Each one of us holds so much nuance of where we have been, things we used to believe, things we have participated in, ways we used to vote, ways we used to show up and work, ideas we used to have, and so allowing ourselves to be fully known and accepted includes all of that nuance, and that's incredibly scary. I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Goldigger podcast. I escape the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a $300 camera from Craigslist and a dream. Now I'm running a seven figure online business that feels even better than it looks all from my house in small town, Minnesota with my family. Here, we value time as our currency. We mix the woo and the work, and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love. I've always loved turning big goals into reality, and I'm here to help you do the same. This isn't just a peek behind the curtain. Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down. Every week we tackle practical, no-fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't. Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence. Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired, and empowered. This is the Goldigger podcast. We've all been in a disagreement with someone that we love deeply. Whether it's a friend, family member, or even a colleague, these conflicts can be challenging and emotionally charged, especially when our values and beliefs clash. It is not enough to just avoid the topic or simply refuse to see these friends and family members anymore, and frankly, that's not productive either. This is why I am so excited to have my guest today to speak to us about how to love others through our disagreements and stay connected with those who matter most in a divided world. Britt Barron is a renowned speaker, teacher, and storyteller whose work has sparked profound conversations around spirituality, race, and personal development. As the author of Worth It Overcome Your Fears and Embrace Life You Are Made For, Britt has captivated audiences with her unique perspective and inspiring message. She is no stranger to the Goldigger podcast, first making an appearance on the show back in 2018 with a thoughtful discussion on diversity and inclusion, which will all be linked in the show notes. Her latest book, Do You Still Talk to Grandma, dives deep into the complexities of our relationships in a world increasingly influenced by social media and cancel culture? Britt explores how we navigate relationships with those we love but disagree with, and how we confront and learn from our past selves. I love how she brings a fresh and compassionate approach to understanding these challenges and offers valuable insights on fostering genuine growth and connection. Today we'll be discussing how to manage the tension between relationship and accountability, the impact of binary thinking on our interactions, and the ways that we can create safe spaces for people to learn and evolve. Britt's perspective on embracing mistakes, handling disappointment, and navigating personal and communal growth promises to be both enlightening and empowering. I'm so excited for you to tune in. Britt, welcome to the Goldigger podcast. Super quick question. How many tabs do you have open right now? Like actually go to your browser and check. If you have ADHD like me, it's a lot. And when you throw a business into the mix, it's even more. You might have a tab for your email marketing system, one for your payment software, one for your CRM content tools, email tools. And with all those tabs, you're spending more time searching through data and less time, you know, growing your business. But with HubSpot's customer platform, you can close all those tabs and access all your tools in one convenient place. With HubSpot, you'll get everyone's eyes on the same work, boost data analysis with AI, optimize workflows for marketing, improve pipeline management for sales, and keep track of every customer question, big or small. So close those tabs. It's business growing time. Visit HubSpot.com to get started today. That's HubSpot.com. I love when I get to say welcome back to my guest. So Britt Baron, welcome back to the Goldigger podcast. Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Yes. Which has happened in life, in love, in the pursuit of happiness since you came on the show. How have you been fill us in on where you've been since 2018 when you first came on the podcast? Yeah. Yeah. A lot has happened. So, I mean, a lot has happened for all of us since 2020. I think I can't believe that only four years ago, it feels like a lifetime ago. But since then, I have been, I moved back to LA, my wife and our dog, and we're living the dream, and I wrote another book, and I'm very excited about it. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about this. So, your book is perfectly timed, and I'm so excited about when this conversation is airing, because your book is about how to stay close to people that you disagree with. How did you come about this topic? Why did you want to write an entire book on it? Having been an author myself, I know how much work a book is, and so you have to be very passionate about it. Where did all of this come from? Yeah. Well, I started thinking about this book and dreaming about it in 2021. And I think after 2020 and everything I experienced, I started looking around, and I started seeing the conversation online seep into the conversations in our real life, right? And so, this was sort of our first, like, huge introduction to the idea of cancel culture, and we're experiencing in real time now, we have terminology for it, we have words for it. And that started impacting, like, real relationships, and so I would have conversations with friends who would talk about their grandparents, or parents who voted differently from them, and then the response would be like, "Oh, do you still talk to them?" And I'd be like, "Oh, wow, like, we're canceling grandmas now, is what's happening." And so, I feel like we had this big social movement that was looking for accountability, but what was really happening was annihilation, right? And so, it felt like we had swung so far that now I was wondering, is there a way to, with conviction and integrity of who you are and what you believe, still maintain relationships with people who found themselves in different areas? And it looked, it just seemed as though we needed a new path. Like, I kept asking and wondering, like, what is on the other side of cancel culture? I see what we're trying to do, and what's the next iteration of how do we move forward? And so, it's been a three-year journey of watching sort of things play out, and it's hilarious that it all ended up coming out a month before the election, but it's, here, we find ourselves here again, right? Yes. I mean, it's so interesting because I feel like the world has never been more divided and divisive, and I feel like a lot of times we almost go into conversations looking to disagree or to find where we don't agree versus finding commonalities. And I'm curious, like, what you think even with this season upon us, like, how that is playing in to community and connections, because I would argue that we have never felt more isolated or alone in this world that we find ourselves in. And so, how is all of this kind of playing out in real life? Yeah, so I think it's two parts, like, one, one of our deepest needs as humans is a sense of belonging. Like, that is something we crave and we'll do almost anything for. And so, our view, part of the reason that we feel so divided and more divided is because we are clinging to whatever sense of belonging we can find, and what we can find are these, like, very extreme, sort of polarizing sides, right? I think we all know what it feels like, whether we've acted on it or not, to see something happening on social media. I mean, like, I need to repost that, I need to do this, because everyone in my group is doing it, right? So, we've, like, attached ourselves to a sense of belonging. There's a story in the book that I talk about, a man who was -- I was watching a documentary on flat earthers, so people who believe that earth is flat, you know, do you ever just, like, get to the end of Netflix, and you're like, I don't know, I don't even know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. This is not, like, a specific area of research I study, but the man doing the interview is, like, coming in and he's arguing hard, like, what about all this science and this science and the earth is around, and then people are arguing, and then one man, who literally, I'm like, you cannot argue with that. He sat down, and the interview was, like, here's all the reasons the earth is around, and this man just said, listen, I became part of this community, like, this group on Facebook, and now I go to two comments a year. We chat in a group chat every day, and, like, these are the people who feed my cats when I'm out of town. I'm like, this man doesn't care if the earth is flat, round, triangle, like, who's gonna feed his cats when he goes out of town if he disconnects himself from this group? So it really doesn't matter what he has to say he believes, because what he wants more than anything is the belonging, and so there's that part of it that I think has created a lot of the polarization that we see, because our belonging is like a tie to these extreme things. But then the other side of it, and I think you're completely right, is when we belong to a group that we know can and will so quickly put us on the outs, we actually don't feel like we belong, we feel incredibly alone. And so knowing that our belonging is always on thin ice of making a wrong move, of making a mistake, it's actually the most fragile sense of belonging and isolated sense of belonging we can experience. And so exactly, we have these two extremes, we want to belong so bad we'll sit and do anything to allow ourselves to a group, but it actually doesn't feel like belonging because we have seen what that group can do and will do. And so we're really caught in the middle, but I think a lot of us have paid the price of personal relationships for it. If you're a creative soul looking for a way to take your photography or event business to the next level without adding more hours to your schedule, you're going to love this inspiring story. Catalina was a wedding photographer working her tail off to make $1,000 for weeks of work, but when she added a photo booth to her business, everything changed. She started charging the same amount for just three hours of work, since then she scaled her business to seven figures. Now, if you're thinking that sounds like the dream, you need to check out this free masterclass from photo booth supply co, it's called capture success, how to turn your creative passion into a six figure photo booth business. Catalina is going to show you how you can take what you're already passionate about and turn it into a massive profit. You'll learn how you can earn $1,000 or more per event with a photo booth rental business. If you're someone who loves creating memories or maybe you've been looking for a fun side hustle, you've got to check this out, head to photo booth supply co dot com slash gold digger to get your free access and my special promo code. This is your chance to work smarter, create more freedom and build something truly amazing. That's photo booth supply co dot com slash gold digger. Okay, let's be real. Why are we still overpaying for wireless? 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New customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan, additional taxes, fees and restrictions. Absolutely. I love how you broke that down because I think a lot of times we don't want to let ourselves be fully known because the risk that comes with it, right? And so I think women especially to generalize is that we are so good at playing the roles that people expect of us in the circles we find ourselves in. And so in one group, you might be super chatty and outgoing in another group. You might be more reserved and professional. And we kind of learn how to put these different masks on. And it is scary to be fully known or to be fully expressed because there is always that concern of like, well, what if we disagree or, well, they just leave me. If I express this, what has your experience been with that? And like, does the book kind of play into that piece of things? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think it's so scary and vulnerable to be fully known because not only, you know, we might agree and disagree on things and where we are now, but to be fully known encompasses also where we've been. And each one of us holds so much nuance of where we have been, things we used to believe, things we have participated in, ways we used to vote, ways we used to show up and work, ideas we used to have, and so allowing ourselves to be fully known and accepted includes all of that nuance. And that's incredibly scary. But I think one of our number one problems, to be honest, is the fact that if we can't hold that nuance for ourselves, we'll never be able to hold it for someone else. And so something in the book, I call it progressive amnesia, but I'm like, it's this idea where we experience something new and we learn something new and then we pretend like we've always been there. And I'm like, no, I was, you know this about me. I was a church girly girl, girl, girl, like down to the studs, like I, Jenna, this is... And I don't like this, but I'm sure there is someone in therapy right now, some woman sitting in therapy, working her way through her relationship with her body because of purity culture and a sermon she heard that she's still impacting, and it was probably me preaching it. This is the reality. So I don't really get to sit here and judge and hold a certain amount of judgment in a specific way as if I never knew what it felt like to sit in those seats. And so my friends who know me now, you have to know that that's a part of my story. And so I'm going to look at the people who sit in those seats and while I hope that they get out of them and would love to urge them for it, I'm going to do it in a different type of way because I know how comfortable it felt to sit there, right? Where does this... This brings me to an interesting shift in the conversation of how do we make room for change? And I feel like being a public personality who has literally kind of grown up on the internet and lived a million lifetimes and iterations and versions of myself, I often feel like we do not give people the permission to change their mind, change your beliefs, change your attitude, we want to keep people stuck in these identities and I think that it's a really risky move and it also keeps all of us stuck when we don't give people permission to change. And so let's talk about that a little bit because I think it's really easy, you know, if you were just to look at me as an example, I have changed and evolved so much. And there are still people that hold on to the 23 year old version of me who loves Mac and Cheese who is slinging a camera around on the weekend and rescuing puppies and they might have a really hard time reconciling this version of me. And so let's talk about change and the role that it plays in both the division but also in the connection of people. Yeah. Yeah, I read this quote one time that just like really hit me and it was like to love someone is to experience a thousand tiny birthdays of who they're becoming and a thousand tiny funerals of who they were. And there is just no way that I could, so my wife Sammy, there's no way that I could expect her to be the person I met in 2013 and call that love, right? Like I have to be open to be like, okay, what are we experiencing? How are we changing? How are we evolving? And then being able to sit in that relationship with someone then gives you the permission to be like, oh, I'm changing and evolving and I want to share it with this person. That's true connection. We have to have the ability to change. I think what's really hard is when we change in ways that feels like it is putting at risk the connection, right? So for example, like growing up in church and that being my primary connection will now evolve in a way that's putting that connection at risk. So there's a temptation in my mind like maybe you should not change, right? There are certain types of change that don't cost us anything. I used to like Mac and Cheese, now I can't have dairy and that's a bummer, but that's honestly just getting older. It's just, you know what I mean, you're at a certain age and I'm cheese and me, we're done. And that's fine. But I was talking with someone about change and changing our minds and he said something that was so interesting to me, he's like, sometimes when I sit with like someone who was on an opposing belief or side and I'm, you know, we're going back and forth and trying to get them to understand, he's like, I asked myself, what would it cost them to agree with me? Like what would it cost them to change in this way? And I think that's a valid and very empathetic question that we have to realize is sometimes we are asking people to grow and change and evolve. And we have to know that that costs like, you know, in your position of being on the internet for so long, you can recount and probably feel still in your body, all of the like reverb from every time you changed from every time you made a mistake, felt like you got it right. Like all of those things you still feel because sometimes change and most of the times change cost us, right? All changes lost in a sense. Yeah. It's so interesting because, you know, even thinking about changing your mind, like what a fascinating idea that we as humans can learn and change our minds. That brings me to thinking about having discussions with people who think differently. And I love how you kind of segue into this because one thing that I think is happening that actually very much terrifies me is that we create echo chambers either consciously or unconsciously, very frequently. And I even remember there were specific times in the last year where there were people that I followed that were posting things that like I vehemently disagree with and my first reaction was to unfollow them. And then I had to sit with it and say, well, I want to even try to understand how they could see this thing this way. Like I do. I don't comprehend it. It's clear to me. And I think that with the internet, it is like this perfect microcosm of like, I don't agree. I'm unfollowing. Well, all of a sudden, then you are only seeing one side. And I think that is absolutely detrimental to not only our belief systems and anchoring them into why we believe what we do, but also having empathy that people do see things differently. And that's okay too. Let's talk about this. Oh my gosh. You're exactly right. So in one sense and something you just laid out perfectly, that train of thought that's like, oh, something I disagree with, unfollow block like that is just so easy. That is a straight line on the internet. But in real life, we have tried to make it a straight line also. Oh, and Susie said this, unfollow block. But you're like, oh my gosh, there is actually so much wound up in that, in that thing. And I think when we allow ourselves to only be surrounded by people who we agree with, we really shut ourselves off from the ability to even change our minds, right? And we shut ourselves off from the ability to encounter no information and to have healthy conversations, right? I think there is something, it's so beautiful about being able to have a conversation with people I disagree with and the end goal not to be, okay, after this conversation, it will only be a success if they also change their mind. I think it's a success if I understand a little bit about where they came from, if they're understanding me, if I moved a quarter of degree, if they moved a quarter of degree, if we come back to this conversation, and I don't know when this happened, but we have made changing our minds such a short game when in the reality, it's such a long game, like having conversations and then having them again and then just hanging out and having a drink and not talking about anything deep because you're just like, like all of that is okay and I think good and natural and we have made this like, oh, these are the things you can't disagree on, where I think that will leave us, I fear is completely alone. And I think we've, something that plays into this that I think about a lot, which I think you'll understand embodying the role you do is we have such a desire in a craving for external authorities, right? And so we want our pastor to tell us what to do, we want our mayor to tell us what to do, we want, okay, well, okay, that broke down, so we want an influencer, okay, that broke down, so we want a different influencer, that broke down, so we want a different podcast, that person said something. And what we're actually doing is also a disservice to these people, we're saying, okay, I'm only looking for someone to listen to, who I can 100%, every single thing that comes out of their mouth agree with and then they can be my guide. When I'm like, we need to understand and feel confident in ourselves and be able to say, I like that thing that they said, that was a good episode, this makes sense to me and that can be that, right? But I think you know better than most, that's not even how we treat people. I think it's, it used to be only how we treated like celebrities and influencers, but now I fear it's how we're starting to treat everybody, which is very scary. Yeah. 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Make B2B marketing everything it can be and get $100 credit on your next campaign. Go to linkedin.com/goal to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/g-o-a-l terms and conditions apply. It was so funny. I was recently with some friends who were very strong personalities and they very much disagreed on a very hot topic that has to do with the election. And it was fascinating. I just literally sat there like if I could have had Bob Gorn and watched this conversation and what was interesting about it was that they both were approaching it from the perspective of, "I am right, you are wrong and I will convince you in your wrongness so that you can see that I am right," versus the conversation of like, "Help me to understand why you see it this way." And I mean it was getting to the point where we were pulling sources and research data. And I was like, it was fascinating to watch the unfolding and there was so much beauty in the conviction that each person held that that couldn't be disregarded. But at the same point too, there was so much lost in the ability to just say, "We aren't going to see eye to eye on this." And I think something that's so interesting to me, even in the landscape we find ourselves in, is I saw a post that was like, if you've already made up your mind who you're voting for, it's okay to kind of block some of the noise. Because I think that so much of even politics is like meant to convince you to go one way and why you're wrong if you go the other way. And with all this noise, it can just get really confusing, but I don't really know a lot of people who are changing the way they were thinking a month ago or two months ago. And so it's really interesting, so how do we have positive discourse? How do we talk to Aunt Betty who disagrees with something that we think is fact? How do we invite in these conversations around the Thanksgiving table or sit down with a sibling who disagrees with us? What does that look like? How do we maintain relationship with people who we do not see eye to eye with? Yeah. Well, I mean, a key word is relationship. So I think this has the best option, the best opportunity to happen when there is a pre-existing relationship. So with a stranger on the internet, just stop. Just immediately stop. I'm going to tell you right now that that thing is ever going to change. But with your Aunt Betty, with your sibling, with your partner, with your cousin, with your friend, with your roommate from college, all of this has existing relationship in there of you knowing that person. And so I think there is a fear sometimes that if we can access empathy or if we ask someone to tell us how they understand something, that it is like saying that we're not fully confident in what we think or that some is threatening to what you say. If you are confident, I know what I believe, I know what I stand for, and I'm always open to the reality that my mind can shift and change. And you know, my dad always said the three most powerful words in the English language are help me understand, right? So I'm like, okay, if we are having an actual conversation, then help me understand, and I would also like to help you understand. And we could sort of let this thing breathe in a way. And just by allowing someone to share with you what they believe does not mean that you are agreeing with it. And I don't know why, but sometimes we feel like that. Like if we allow ourselves to even listen to the other side's argument that it's somehow validating it, like this is just human interaction and experience. Yeah. And I think especially going into Thanksgiving, it doesn't matter who you are, I don't know a single person whose entire family is on the same page, like I don't think that's real. Maybe you're a media family. But once you start getting hands and elbows and hands, the grammar, like everyone is going to be sitting there. And I think there is something so helpful and empathetic about being open to actually hearing and exchanging. And then it's good sometimes, Janet, to like think about the moments in your life when you've changed your mind and how you got there. Yes. It was almost never someone just giving me a fact and saying, did you know this fact? And I was like, oh my gosh, mind change, right? Yeah. And sometimes it's like someone inviting you into a story and allowing you to understand the world in a different way and presenting that and pulling sources here and reading and chewing on it and taking these long things. I've never read a tweet and then been like, oh my gosh, definitely changing my position. It's a big amalgamation of things and so taking the pressure off to say, okay, every person I encounter who thinks of this, they're going to change your mind by the time I leave. I'm like, that's a set of per failure. Yes. For everybody involved, right? Like, no one wants to experience that interaction. I think it's really interesting, even Drew and I were on a flight and we were flying and it was right when President Biden had announced that he was no longer running and this is not going into politics and sides. And I was on the airplane and I started watching both sides of the news. And so I don't typically watch the news. That's not how I get my news. And we were on the airplane and so Drew kept watching me switch from channel to channel and they were all reporting on the same exact event in very different ways. And it was this fascinating case study to me as somebody who's in marketing and messaging and branding to see how the same event witnessed by the same group of people was being interpreted in incredibly different ways and also being presented in very different ways. And I think that that is the reality of around a lot of what we are consuming. And again, the echo chambers that we can create for ourselves so that we can walk through life saying, well, certainly everybody sees it this way. Of course, you are going to think this way and you are absolutely shocked when your Aunt Rhonda doesn't see it that way and she is seeing the other side. And so I would just say like as an interesting challenge of watching different news stations just to see what the other side might be seeing. And maybe your eyes are open in a different way to see how certain people can believe certain things. What do you think about that? Yeah, yeah with you. I think you touched on something specific too of like we need to be like we need to understand that the stories being shared to us most of the time, unfortunately, someone benefits from us seeing something in a certain way. And so when it comes to like certain boundaries, especially in an election time, well, I start to only read news and not see it once because I'm like, I already know that there's just so much charge, like energy behind someone needing me to understand a story in a specific way and how powerful it can be to say like, okay, I'm going to get the information and I want to figure out like how does that give me do I have more questions when I like a follow-up here, how am I this okay, why would someone else see it that way? And really putting ourselves in the driver's seat of consuming and digesting and understanding information will create far more empathy and what I think is far more change. Like I think if you look around like I'm like, we desperately need change, like we need change and growth and movement and I don't think that happens when we pick a group and leave everyone else behind. I think that can only happen when we can get sort of like everyone together and that's going to be coming from us being able to digest information in a specific way. So if you feel like you are only seeing one thing or you're not sure, yes, turn on the other thing and it will be very shocking, but there are loads of people like, even are you on TikTok? No, I don't even have a TikTok account. No, and you need to never and you need to, I need to log on. I'm saving myself from myself, perspective piece, like honestly, I've never loved hated and have more and but like TikTok is so, I mean, it's so smart and it like figures you out so fast and there's like this dog that I follow and I just see him so much that I'm like, oh, everyone knows him, you know, and all the conversation of it, well, you guys know, you know, this dog right now, but I'm like, no, everyone knows this dog. Yes. Yes. Yes. I've never seen it. I'm like, no, no, he's famous. You know what I'm like, yes, I'm like, that's how that happens. Mm hmm. Oh, totally. A lot of times if I am like, getting obsessed with something or I'm feeling disappointed about something, I'll grab my husband's phone and just scroll through his Instagram and it's like all sports and things and I'm like, oh, clearly I am like consuming like one line of type of content that is making me feel a certain type of way, like maybe I just need to like a more quarterback so I know nothing about and I'll feel a different type of way but it is. I think too, it's like the more that we explore where our ideas and thoughts and beliefs are coming from, how they are being handed to us, either well intentioned or not. And what we truly like have conviction about, I think it's really interesting because that's where a lot of unpacking and deconstructing can come in, but it also can really challenge us of like, well, why do I feel this way? And I think for a lot of us, we're too busy to even get quiet with ourselves to ask ourselves those questions, let alone ask other people those questions. Yeah. And I think there's something so beautiful within the day to be able to reconcile all the versions of yourself. Yeah. And sometimes where we come in so hot to say, if someone believes this, that makes them bad. And my suspicion is that's because we think that when we believe this, we were bad. And so when we can sort of open up to understand how we have changed and evolved, then we could do that for other people, because at the end of the day, I think people are good. Fundamentally, I think humans are good. We have all consumed different narratives that have allowed us to see the world in a different way. And so if we want to be a part of reworking those narratives, offering power narratives and sitting with people and allowing that change in nuance, then we have to be willing to hold all of that together, even those parts of ourselves. And that's where a load of beauty happens. And those are things that we can do with the people that we have existing relationships with. I'm like, stop. Everyone stop arguing with strangers on the internet. But if you want to get in a conversation with your aunt Rhonda and you want to sit and you want to understand the narratives that she has consumed our whole life about women, about where they should be, about what they should do, and you can have empathy for that narrative. Now you can start to get in those conversations and share ideas and stories and sit and change minds and go back and go forth and create a really beautiful encounter. Yeah. One of the things that I love that you talk about is making mistakes well. Let's talk about what does that mean? What does that look like? What is a practical tip around just embracing the fact that we are going to mess up and we will make mistakes and we do have flaws? What does that mean? Yeah. I think making mistakes is a lost art. I think we have in addition to our storytelling, we have a lot of us convince ourselves that there's a way to live life without making any mistakes. There is a right and wrong and we can exist fully on the side of right. We can be always the hero, never the villain in every story and that's a super dangerous place to be because that's impossible. It's an impossibility. But mistakes come in several different forms but some mistakes are high risk and so I think understanding that it takes maturity to make a mistake, it takes bravery to move forward from one and I think allowing ourselves the true vulnerability in having not only make mistakes but then like having a reconciliation moment post mistake, accepting consequences for a mistake, accepting accountability for a mistake, being open and moving on from the mistake and letting that go. I think those are all practices that really help us not only when we make mistakes but when the people around us inevitably will too, when our heroes make mistakes, when our parents make mistakes, when our children make mistakes, right, if we can sort of understand how to create this growth process, then we can sort of do it for other people but mistakes are, they only happen. I, you know this, I spent a lot of time doing DEI trainings and conversations and a lot of people who get really passionate about the work and I say at the beginning of every session I'm like you can either be a part of this work or you can want to get everything right, you can't do both. If you want to be in the work then you have to be willing to make the mistakes because that's the only way forward. It's so interesting to even like something I've been noticing as a parent is like when somebody makes a mistake, especially a kid, they are already aware of the mistake and hard on themselves without the outside forces, right, like self-awareness comes at a very early age and I often think about like if you see a kid spill a glass of milk at a restaurant and the parents are like what the heck, it's like that kid is already embarrassed, upset, you know, like and so it's interesting as a parent to see self-awareness and even accountability in young children and to see that like no one is going to be harder on someone than they are going to be on themselves in most cases and scenarios. And so it's interesting because I think that we often, you know, we can dog pile whether intentionally or not as parents, as friends, as internet people and that person is likely already sitting like the kid who spilled the milk and so it's just this interesting phenomenon of like witnessing like they don't need any more reminders of that mistake, they need someone to help clean it up and obviously situations can be so extreme and different from spilling milk but it's just something that I've been so conscious of as a parent of like our kids don't need reminders that they messed up, they're usually very aware. Yeah, and so something I talk about in the book is like how do we figure out the difference between consequences and punishments, right? Consequences are something that happens as a result of your action, punishments are usually based in shame, right? So a consequence is like, hey, you know, if I'm a parent, right, hey, you just lost your mind in target, that as a consequence, we're going to leave, we're going to leave target. A punishment would be you embarrassed me in target so I'm going to like go to your classroom and I'm going to embarrass you, like, right, that's like the vibe of a punishment. And so when we think about people who have made high stakes, high risk mistakes, right, I think there should always be consequences, we make actions and we experience consequences accordingly, I think punishments are something we've gotten a little comfortable with that and I think are a result of us feeling something like I always say so many comment sections on the internet. What I see is a bunch of different words. What I hear is I'm hurting and you're going to hurt too. I feel shame and I want you to feel it too when I'm like, those are all punishments. Of course, we need consequences. We all have these societal rules, you step outside of them, you break them, we have family rules, we have agreements, we have marital agreements, we have all these things and a step outside of that we will require consequences. But punishments, this is where I think we need to do a little bit of work and figuring those out and finding that balance and who gets to decide what I think is really important as we go forward not to say, well, anyone can do it or really want, right? There are consequences for our actions, but we need to become a lot less comfortable with punishments. Yeah. I guess one of my closing questions is like, how can we create spaces where people do feel safe to learn, evolve, change your mind, think differently, especially if they have past actions or beliefs that have not been in alignment with where they're at today? Like how do we welcome the evolution and offer humility so that relationships have mattered to us stay relationships and stay relational? I think one thing I always like to keep in my mind is that a lot of times it's easy for me to think that this is someone else's responsibility or someone else's problem or someone else's the issue. When I have a lot of power in the situation, I have a lot of opportunity and I have a lot that I can do as well. And so I think often we look to, oh, if they would just start doing this, you can create that environment. You can create that environment. You can create those agreements and, you know, people don't want to agree with them and then you have to reevaluate. But you can set that tone and I think a lot of times we look for other people in the world to do the work that we are very capable of doing. I love that. My final question is, do you still talk to Grandma? Yeah. You know, it's so funny is like I wrote that title that after this like experience I had with a friend where she was talking about her grandma. And it's like not funny, my grandmothers are both fast away. And so yeah, I talked to them very regularly, but my wife's all four of my wife's grandparents are still alive. And we just talked to them and have a great relationship with them and have conversations like this with them, which is just a beautiful thing to experience, especially in a family that I wasn't born into to see this kind of culture be created is pretty fantastic. Well, everyone where they can get your book, find out more about you, give them a little teaser as to why they need to pick up a copy of your book. So my book, do you still talk to grandma when the problematic people in our lives are the one we love? It comes out October 1st, you can get it anywhere books are sold. This book is for you if you are nervous about Thanksgiving, if you are arguing with family numbers about the election, if you are not sure where you stand on certain things and how to hold the nuance of your past, if you made a mistake, if you've been canceled online, I think these are all the things that that would make you want to pick up this book. Awesome. And where can everybody connect with you, Britt? You can find me on my website at BrittBaron.com or on Instagram at BrittBaron1T and 2R's. That's right. Thank you for coming back on the podcast, congratulations on your book. It's so great to talk to you again. Thank you. If you know anything about me, you know that I hate surface level conversation, which in times that we find ourselves in can be really hard because it feels safe to navigate conversation about sports and the weather and our kids. But in reality, I think the richness of our discussions can come when we can disagree and understand each other's perspectives while still maintaining relationships that matter the most to us. I loved this conversation with Britt today. I hope you did too. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. And of course, until next time, keep on digging your biggest goals. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. I hope today's episode fueled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to golddiggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers. [MUSIC]
