Cuck My Life Podcast

Ep: 27 - Jessi & Rich Black - Highschool Sweethearts to Lifestyle Veterans

Jessi & Richard are a truly inspiration couple with an unmatched depth of experience and Wisdom. On todays show QOS Jessi and her Cuckold husband Rich pass on that wonderful knowledge to the Panel and our listeners. There are so many tasty pearls in this episode, share with you friends and enjoy the laughter, banter and just good fun with the @Cuckmylife panel and @jessiblackqos

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Website https://jessiblackqos.com/

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⁠⁠⁠@poorlittlewhit1⁠⁠⁠ - The Po Boy 🌿

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Broadcast on:: 27 Aug 2024
Audio Format:: other

Hello everyone welcome to the cut my life podcast. Thank you for joining us. Oh, yep. Yeah, can you put a little enthusiasm into it? What the fuck? Hello everyone welcome to the Jesus Christ Got no motivation today People are actually listening to this Hello everyone welcome to the cut my life podcast. Thank you for joining us This is where we talk everything cuckoo real stories real guests and real cucks. I'm Po a little white one I'm joined by my good friends and fellow cucks the awesome cook and Hubs the hot wife and today we have two very special guests Richard and Jesse and We're gonna visit with them about they're turning into this world of cuck-holding And I think Jesse is definitely a queen space. We'll talk a little bit about that. Come have a listen Good little girls and little Catholic religious girl taught to have a lot of sexual shame At times it's like oh wait, I didn't expect exactly that thing to happen and now I feel really upset I asked him now is this a want or a name? Don't fuck it. I'm playing a phrase and I don't care who likes it Mommy is in charge. Mom does sit on the couch a lot Hottest experiences of your life like you are gonna be living other people's dream Day gentlemen and lady. How is everybody doing today? Fantastic nice to talk with you all. Yeah, so far so good for sure. We're so grateful to have you here Thank you for taking the time 100% we're happy to be here and getting up early This is very early for Jesse. Yeah, so you you all should feel extremely fortunate that she is even awake And looking beautiful, but yeah, and if I get her up this early, that's not a good thing I don't know Thanks for taking one for the team. Tatiana won't speak to me in the morning. I Don't even try. Yeah. No, I wait until she talks when she talks. I'm like, are we okay? Like So I get it I get it, but it's nice to see you and you both look fabulous. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it So we're so glad you're here and we wanted to just talk to you a little bit about the evolution of your relationship So what we try to do here more than anything else is educate our listeners We're all for a little bit of titillation so we can talk about that But we want to educate our listeners and we want them to understand What was the evolution of your relationship? How did you go from a couple of kids who just like each other to where you are now? Yeah, so just a little bit of background right the level set she and I have known each other since we were 14 and 7 We sort of grew up. I was best friends with someone very close to her So I've known her family for over 30 years. I've known her for well over 30 years And we got married relatively young certainly for her. We were 23 and 17. We started dating. We got married at 30 and 22 so yes, she's really cute and she was really young and I was her first and we were married and super happy and Eventually, I was like aren't you kind of ever gonna wonder what else could be or what else is out there and like That's kind of where I guess the conversations started. Yeah, and I was definitely a good little girl Good little Catholic religious girl taught to you know have a lot of sexual shame I feel like when you hear a lot of couples or sister stories It's similar in that way that most of us were pretty repressed as Young women and as as kids taught that it was wrong or bad And so I always from a super young age was Supersexual, but thought that it was bad. So like if there was I remember when I was little there was a billboard with like It was like a copper tone billboard and it was a little dog Yeah, and you guys know what I'm talking about and I would To drive me past that billboard just so I could see the bomb and the tan lines like it was like my thing And I remember just as young as you know 12 13 being like well, what's wrong with you to be? Why do you care? You know, what's the problem with this? What's the problem with that? I was always that person even though I was very self-disciplined and stayed You know completely a virgin until I met him I was always that person to ask the questions where friends family be like you can't ask that question You know like well Why can't two girls get together or why can't we just be naked at the beach and people like you can't ask that, you know So I always had those high that high sex drive, but didn't know That it was okay or how to express it So when Rich started asking me questions about, you know, what are your fantasies and aren't you curious? It took me a while to first say what they're kind of defensive I don't want to talk about this which again I feel is pretty common. I don't want to talk about this This is uncomfortable and then I finally started confessing little things to him Like well if I'm in traffic and I see a hot guy I'll get him to flirt with me or yeah, I have these thoughts of like am I really gonna die only having sex with one person? So it kind of started with those kind of little safe places and then you know evolved from there to we started just Chatting sexing with people on sites where you couldn't show your base. You couldn't show your name. It was just an anonymous chat site So that's really where I got started and he was like, yeah, that's where I say we started to make things real Right, so there was a lot of fantasy. There was a lot of back deck drinks and cigarettes and talking about sexy stuff and she was like Okay, I want two guys and so that was like wow like yeah Yes, like, how do we how do we make that happen and like Richard? Yeah? It's always kind of a shock when they tell you that and you find out you're not one of the guys So so that's really an important thing actually touched upon a really important thing in our revolution that it was like Okay, I want you guys. I want you to be one of them and like okay like let's do that But for me it wasn't always the most comfortable situation like let me just say one on one. I'm great. Yeah, so For me, it was I wanted the feeling of Everybody has the attention on me. I want all the attention The chemistry is great and we're all friends and that was the big thing for me is like I just love Connection, I love that feeling of being the center of attention and so in the beginning That's where it started was me just being like I fucking love being the center of attention I love feeling like everybody's getting along. Everybody's comfortable. We're all having a good time And so that's where it really started for me And so he is my best friend and he will always be my best friend So for me in the beginning him being involved that was so key. So still love the attention for him It's just different now. So go ahead. Yeah, um, so Okay, two guys great. I was gonna be one of the two guys and like, okay, that's fine But to give that attention to sort of be involved didn't necessarily for me mean like I had to actively be part of the sex Like for me watching and kind of being there Like my and my most important thing is that she is getting that attention like I I'm good with being in the background in this lifestyle, especially in our dynamic like that's really important for me I'm good with it in real life. I'm somewhat different than that But within the lifestyle like she's the star. I'm there to support her. I carry her bag I have her lingerie. I'm in the background and I'm really really good with that And so it took us a while to kind of get past No, I need you to be involved versus well I can be involved but not directly in that particular role like I want you to be involved I want you to be doing all the things that you want to do And I don't need to be that and she like sort of wanted to force that yeah, but yeah, but yeah, I Didn't understand in the beginning how he was going to enjoy or get off on Just being someone who watched right I might be able to explain that to you. Yeah. Yeah, I know now very well, right guys So yeah, so I think that for me it was just learning what that was written and what that pleasure was for him and actually listening You know something I've learned about myself in this whole process is before we get started in this I wasn't a very good listener I thought I knew what everybody wanted and what everybody needed in this situation And I could predict that and I had to really learn to listen to what it is that he was telling me He wanted and needed in order to feel like he was sexually really enjoying the situation And it was not an easy road for sure. We went through a lot of really rough Rough patches with it. Yeah, there's nothing easy about this No, not in the beginning especially not when you're figuring out what actually works for you, right? And that was what was important for us. It was like, okay, we can try to do this thing But both of us are not necessarily feeling great about that particular thing that particular way so I think that kind of coming to the honest motivation for both sides what we were both looking for out of it and where we Both felt really comfortable and being able to accept that about the other person ended up being what led us to now Which is literally something that just works so well It's one thing when you each figure things out for yourself, but then you know getting each other to understand Where you're coming from that takes a little bit of time And I think it's very encouraging to our listeners to hear that you've gotten to that point because a lot of people Despair over the length of time that sometimes it'll take Yeah, we started this in 2016 and I feel like we got it right probably sometime in the last two years Right so there were many starts and stops and you know, we're both so highly sexual that it was like, okay We're never doing this again, and then a couple days would go by and we would be like, yeah Yeah, so what do we need to do next time to make everybody feel a little bit better And you know, I saw this thing happen and like explained that to me So a lot of times that's really big for me is just kind of understanding kind of where I'm at and what her mindset is And how I fit in and right like you I'm assuming you guys all know like at times It's like, oh wait, I didn't expect exactly that thing to happen and now I feel Really upset and I'm like, okay I've got to address this with her I've got to be honest about how that made me feel and all I need necessarily a lot of times from her is like, okay, no Here's the reassurance. Here's the explanation You're good. Everything's fine. You're gonna be okay. You're safe, and I'm like, okay great Let's go do that again, please see and I tend to be the opposite where I am very much a planner And a thinker and an organizer. So once it's go time for me I've spent a long and I mean a long amount of time being sure that like it's gonna be okay for us So one of the problems especially early on would be okay. I've made this decision. I'm ready to go We did it I feel great because I already worked out all the problems in my head ahead of time and then he's like, oh wait I didn't anticipate all these things and I'm like well I would get almost angry and be like, well, I'm just doing what you told me to do I'm just doing what you told me was gonna be okay, you know, and so that was big roadblock. We had to get over Early on and it took it took time in a lot of crazy situations to get us there Well Richard one of the things that we say all the time on this show and in our little group is You can't ask her to do it But you can't tell her how to do it, right? And she has to respect you and and work with With your needs, but you can't we can't tell them how to do this this if it if they're doing what we want them to do Then it's not the relationship that we want. It's not the relationship that we asked for. Yeah, no I totally agree and I I would say in the very beginning control. We'll call it that was probably like 50/50, right and That worked terribly and so a lot of a lot of where we ended up now is it's zero one hundred and my Oh It's like a thousand to negative seven yet That's from not sure you're that high right like in real life a dominant person in this lifestyle being a completely Submissive person getting used to that in the beginning was a difficult transition, but what I'll tell you is that now It's so much easier, and it's so much more pleasurable and honestly a lot of times I'm like should I have stepped in in this circumstance like to deal with some Conflict or something that occurred and like I'm like should I have jumped in like I'm over here like a little puppy dog I'm doing nothing like and she's like no I got it. Everything's gonna be fine Like if if those circumstances you come up, I mean, I'm six three. I weigh 225,000 pretty big guy So if there's anything that needs to happen, you know in that respect she's like I'm sure I'll let you know And we'll do that, but otherwise it goes to them I just want to add you for like women listeners who are listening to this and who want to be cock-hole dresses for me The most important key that I figured out was making him feel safe enough that he could trust That if those thoughts came up, if those feelings came up that I was going to listen I was going to make him feel heard and valued And so then that's what allowed him to really take that deep dive and say, okay, you can have 100 percent Right, it doesn't happen by magic It is sort of like a leadership role that you have to take and you have to understand that You know, no, I am going to have to reassure Probably 10 more times than I thought I was going to need to reassure But that's how you're creating that safety network for your cock And having them feel safe is helping them understand that no, I will reassure you I'll listen to your concerns If you don't like a guy that I really like I I'll give that up. I'll give that one guy up because there's 70 more in mind Right because there's way more guys that want to do this than us girls So I think that that was a really important part too was just helping him feel like no I will listen to you And one of the things that was a trick that came up was I asked him now, is this a wand or a need Right. So he'll kind of have some Cuckings or something going on and I'll look at him and say you need to tell me Is this a wand or a need and he'll be like, I just kind of want to fuck you right now Okay, sorry. I'm not fucking you right now. No, I need to it's been too long. I'm starting to go crazy Okay, let's let's get it on. Let's fuck So I think that that's been a big part for me too It's just understanding my role as the queen in this situation. It's not just being a queen It's also helping your cock feel like you are going to listen to them in those important moments That's very interesting tea and I tatiana and I are we're renegotiating our commitment right now And one of the major conversations we're having is about wants and needs And those things are not the same Right 100% and You have to be able to and we say this regularly If you want to be in this lifestyle, you not only have to be able to understand who you are and what you want You need to be able to express it appropriately And then it takes patience and time Right. Yeah, right. Yes. Can you talk a little bit about what your life is like outside of the lifestyle as because The men in this room, we're all kind of the same. We're all very active very Go-getters in real life, and then we get in the bedroom and you know, we want to be kicked in the balls Yeah, you talk a little bit about who you are and what that looks like for you. Yeah, absolutely Let's see. So I was a bodybuilder for like 30 years as competitively as possible And I you built her a great job. Yeah I wish I could say that I did but this is just God given talent over here And so yeah, I have a relatively high ranking position in an extremely large multinational company Here in florida and so yeah, I mean, that's been my whole life like having a lot of charisma and drawing a lot of attention and All of those things outside of the relationship with her and you're right. I don't it's so common that it's got to be a thing but like I'm so happy to just let her drive as far as the lifestyle goes because I'm so often responsible for so much outside of it that yeah, once we're kind of in that I'm like, whatever Yeah, you can do whatever you'd like dress however you'd like. I'm here for the ride like I'm following you I don't really necessarily need anybody to talk to me. I hope everybody just focuses on you Which is what is so great about some of the events that we go to there They're solely about you know her and her getting that attention and I dress in very bland outfits and try to remain against the wall and like just Watch her be amazing and like I'm just like, you know in awe of her and that's what this has always been about for me I've always thought the world of her like I said in the very beginning of our conversation I've known her for a very long time and I've watched her grow up and maybe not get that attention in some in certain circumstances and just be like What is everybody else missing and how the hell did I get so fortunate to be able to show her like, no, no You are amazing and now finally Somehow the the rest of the world is kind of caught on and and you know She's getting that level of attention that she always deserved And i'm just really proud to have been able to bring that out and help her realize that Well, you know sometimes we talk about that as like a woman kind of like seizing her power and like owning it And it sounds like that's kind of just he's been doing is just kind of like yeah And like as a guy sometimes I think when it's a pleasure When you can help your partner Live into that power and basically you know her, you know, you're worthy of having this power So I think i'm hearing a little bit of that from y'all I've seen her Twitter feed. She's seizing more than power. Yes Yeah I think there's there's also a quite a bit around the general consensus about how cucks are and how Boldresses will look and see their cucks after the fact That there seems to be that there'll be maybe some disrespect And I think it's one of the things that that maybe men fear is that if they start to get into this their wives will respect them less And just I know our audience can't see you guys But just seeing the way that jessie's looking at you there rigid is that that there's such admiration, you know, there's so much Love and respect for for you know, you know, both of you Working and building to what you've done That there is 10 times more respect. I don't know. It's the complete opposite. I think I think it's a bit of a misnomer that You'll lose respect but going back to a bit about what you're saying was that I think the the insecurities that we have at the start Right at the start everything makes us insecure. There's so much stuff that that that that just lands on us a text message of phone call how she's Smiling you know the time that she's spending any of those things Can have a play on our angst but over time. I think we just chip those things away as we get more Confident as we we we start to lose some of those insecurities and her Really providing that support and and making sure that you're okay and that everything is okay It's just the way to do that and then eventually you get to what I would probably consider as the mecca Which is where you two are at which is, you know, you've been through rough, but it's also now Just an amazing place where the trust is just unbreakable and it's just a wonderous place But it does take work to get there and I think there's probably too many people trying to race to the finish line And I don't think you can write Yeah, miraculously some people do get there a little faster and I envy them so much and i'm just like I don't know exactly how you did that but good on you. Um, it did take us a little bit longer of a road Um, and there were so many starts and stops and like I said we were together from very young So and also like being her only for so long. It was a difficult transition into oh my god This guy is fucking her and her eyes are bugging out of her head and she's making sounds and faces and things are happening to her body That I don't have the capability to bring about With my particular penis, right? However, this guy is usually in its cage Yeah, that's right Um, and so the the evolution to the cage and all of the trust and everything that sort of Started in so much insecurity um that that transition has been has been crazy and to think of where we were and where we are now is just You know, unbelievable But I think you know what you said is really important because it does then fall out of You know just outside of if you're really going to commit to this and do this it does fall out of just in the bedroom Right, it expands into your whole life. It changes how you communicate with your partner It changes how you communicate with other people. It changes how you deal with complex You know in your life in your family and your relationships even in the workplace Because you just learn if you're open to it You can learn so much more about yourself Through this process and then you just take that and it's like a little gift that you just bring everywhere You know, and so I always say to people, you know sex is one of my therapies, right? It's where I get to practice like when okay this bad behavior I gotta fix that or he's not gonna like it, you know, and then the whole thing's gonna be a mess again, right? You know, it's you realize all of these issues about yourself because you're you're in this really high Energy environment where you're fucking other people and you're doing these things or you're in a threesome or you know Something unexpected comes up and you get to practice how to behave, right? And then you take what you learn and you bring it out with you into their regular life You know, so for me. I always say that to people sex is therapy You know and and doing these kinds of things is a really great way to learn about yourself and your partner That's an amazing way to look at it. This whole lifestyle is an evolution Where firm belief is that nobody stays stagnant? Right if you're going to do this you're going to grow and change Whatever that looks like for everybody. Can you talk a little bit about what your growth journey was like Yeah, how did you become a queen of spades? How did you? Okay, so can I just make one quick point? Yeah, so we were talking a little bit early about being go getters too like for us a thing that you just said is so It resonates so strongly with us like We are people who are constantly trying to improve and get things right and like be the best at whatever it is So when we would fall down in this lifestyle a little bit, we would be like, no, we're getting back up We're getting this right and we're going to figure it out We're not giving up like we were like almost competitive about like no We're going to make this work and we're going to get this to happen for us So our evolution for sure was based in in that and wanting to be successful and like People who give up. Yeah, we're going to make we're going to make this work So yeah, so I was going to just say you know for me. It's like almost two different Paths so the queen of spades part is pretty easy. I've always been attracted to People with darker skin. I have never been really super attracted to like your typical light guy Sorry to anybody that of friends I'm fine. Sorry, but not sorry. I'm gonna be okay. Yeah, not really sorry But I it was another one of those things that as a kid I I was raised in a really bigoted family Where that was really looked down on I was 15. I tried to data a black boy My parents my father didn't speak to me for almost a year I was forbidden from seeing him. I had to sneak out of house to even see him Ultimately, I had to end the relationship because there was no way I could even make it work without controlling my parents were Around race, but my natural attraction has always tended to darker skinned boys and now men that I'm an adult You can see rich. He's not a super light skin guy And so it's that I got to that. Yeah He's I we always joke that like he's he's brownish enough that I've been married when I was young And still worried about my family But not quite not quite dark enough. Um, we that's what we joke all the time, but it's for me That's what I've always wanted So I've only had sex with one like white white guy other than that It's always been for me black men brown men. It's what I'm naturally attracted to Taking ownership of that and not having shame around that Was just becoming more comfortable having bowls who I could have those race conversations with um becoming a slut sister with scarlet and angie and You know, even all my my loves that really helped because I could have those conversations with other women Who are like mine in and also when we started to gain followers We reached a point. I'm gonna let you talk about this where we had to make some decisions because it was the middle of the pandemic It was the height of you know what had happened with several shootings and All you know racial tension was pretty high. So we had to make some decisions And it was like either you're gonna fully own this or you're not and I just made the decision after Talking with other women talking with bulls us conversing with ourselves to be like, no, fuck it I'm queen of spades and I don't care who likes it or who doesn't. So if you want to talk a little bit about that piece Yeah, I mean on the social media side of things it became very tense and there were death threats and Docks threats and all kinds of Madness during what I like to refer to as the age of bullshit where everyone was like Standing up for things that maybe they didn't even know anything about or really believe in and just wanted to come Kind of spout off against people who were kind of living there they're real live, right? Like especially with people who are not necessarily in the lifestyle when I would mention the word bull They would be like you can't call black people that and I'm like, no, you don't understand like first of all It has nothing to do with race or color bull. It can be orange pink purple polka dots. It really makes no difference It's just the third person in a cuckold relationship and they were like, oh Yeah, but still I don't like it and I'm like, yeah, but now now you're just being silly because I've explained it to you and I've educated you and you're still going to take a stance that You can't support with anything factual, right? And so we I almost I did sort of begin to rebrand a little bit away from The lifestyle the queen of spades the the preference for black men Because I was afraid of what it might do for us long term And you know at some point when that started to fade a little bit and when we realized like no If you like tall blondes that doesn't make you racist against short curvy brunettes It's just what your preference is and for us being really More lifestyle the monetization side and that side is really just an expansion of the fun that I have like no If you really wanted to you could be a porn star and here's how I'm going to show you that for us It's it's mostly based on lifestyle where like now our reality is you do have a preference for black men And that's not based in you know the traditional like bbc fetish stuff Which I won't speak negatively against that either if that's your thing then great It isn't necessarily for her. It's a nice attribute of of a You know a significant amount of black men but ultimately it's the the swagger and the book and all of the Things that you would just be attracted to about another person anyway Well, we were just talking about this yesterday too because we were talking about like I have really come to enjoy variety In my life and in terms of like I'm not a one Trick pony in terms of what I enjoy in the bedroom what I enjoy sexually what I enjoy with my relationships So we were actually just talking about that yesterday. I was like look I have Guys from Nigeria that I'm fucking turned on by because they have a sexy accent And I can learn something from them culturally I have guys who are really into race play that are going to be The sweetest teddy bears and make me feel like the safest person on the planet And then be using the n-word with me right there in the bedroom and pulling my hair You know, I've got other guys that are like, I don't give a fuck about all that race stuff on black your white Let's let's go like so for me, you know, guess what everybody and I'm sure this isn't a surprise Anybody on this podcast, but every person is different, right? So every bull I'm with regardless of their skin color They also have their kinks their things they enjoy sexually and the type of person I am I just give me more I love it all. Let me just have it all, you know, so that's been a part of it too It is so important so important To treat the gentlemen of this lifestyle who are on the other side of it as human beings Individuals with their own wants and needs and desires And not just as a piece of equipment or as a sex toy No question about it and that thank you for bringing that up. That's really important I think yeah, and I'm glad you said it that way because I do think that that happens a lot of times with cut couples And we've talked with, you know, a lot of my bulls and different guys and people that we're friends with who they hate that You know, they they don't they want to be treated like a human being You know, and it can really cause I think sometimes, you know, Something that people when they get started struggle with is well, no one wants to do it more than once It's hard to establish a relationship It's hard for, you know, to have somebody come again or or make that connection And it's like well, how are you treating that person? Are you treating them? Do it and get out? Yeah, exactly Are you treating them like someone that you you dated or are you treating them like just an object? We've had you know, I had a bull that I was with for quite a while who had someone pull a gun on him I was gonna tell them that and was like, listen, everything was fine before they got into the bedroom He pulled a gun out of his His um his shoe and like his boot and put it to him and said look You're gonna fuck my wife, but I just want you to know I have this and I will use it if you hurt her Okay, so that shit happens To to these guys, right? Did he leave? No, he fucked her, but then he's gonna sleep I was like as soon as he put that down I would have been dust in the wind like out the door like the the shape of me in the wall, right? Like crashing through like blue band Yeah, just a beautiful shape hole Right, like I'm not even sure how we got that done. We've talked about on this episode about Um some of the pressures that get put onto onto balls to perform and how that could cause erectile dysfunction Seriously, if there is ever anything to cause erectile dysfunction I would have thought having a gun pull on you would be would be pretty high up there on things that would be He wasn't broke. Yeah, and what I'll say is that is another part of why I proudly claim myself to be a queen of spades Now I just got my my tattoo, which I'm in love with And I thank you and I'm so proud to have it because That's the stance that I took. I'm always an advocate. I'm always standing up for I've been like that since I was a little kid Equal rights, um, I've gotten in trouble who passed for being too aggressive about, you know, standing up for equal rights And I was like, you know what? No, I'm gonna own this but I'm gonna show people what it's really like And I'm gonna help people understand what it really means and what it is and for me. It's it's a pride in That kind of thing. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm a I'm a big fan of Race play and I believe that if you're going to go into those waters where you're like, you know what? I'm attracted to a certain race or you know, people of a certain race or whatever it is You have to do with a lot of respect and a lot of like understanding if you want to know more About race play you can check on our episode with Drew Marston while po was apparently out of the internet Because We did have a long conversation with Drew Marston about that and he he's he's Goddamned there you died and he was you know, we felt weird We wanted to have that conversation, but we felt weird as four white guys Delving into it and so we we asked Drew Marston to come on and talk to us and it's a very thoughtful episode I think it's the third episode we dropped We highly recommend it. Yeah I love the way you're explaining this saucy. What do you got brother? So I just wanted to ask so from your perspective from you've said that, you know, you guys have been together forever And do you have a family? Do you have like your own family kids and that sort of thing? Yeah, so we have two kids. We have a boy who is almost 16. We have a girl who's almost 12 We deal with a lot in our real life We we have some pretty complex illnesses that one of our children has that requires lots of hospitalizations lots of treatments Uh, we both work our regular full-time jobs. I'm hoping to maybe retire sooner than later Um for my regular job, but nowhere. We are regular people Um with our kids because they're a little bit older They know that mom goes out once every two weeks They know that i'm going out with friends when they ask what friends We say it's not someone you know Sometimes like when we went out to dinner with the other couple, we're like, oh, it's friends We met randomly, and it's just little little things. They know that we're a very open Sexual family, you know, we openly talk about sexuality likes dislikes We talk about porn We talk about all those things that have definitely been instances where our son has you know overseeing texts or Different things. I'm being a little careful just because he is succeeding and I want to protect his you know, his his version of the story Um, but yeah, we're pretty we're don't come out and say like mom's going out to do this or that Right, but the way that we've justified it and talked about it in none of ourselves is When we go to bed at night or when it's the afternoon and everybody's chilling and we're gonna go and have some playtime in our bedroom Like a normal married couple would we don't say to the kids like, oh, we're gonna go have sex for now Right, we just go in the room and you do your thing and you know Or like if you go out to dinner and then you have sex afterwards and your kids were at the babysitter or their grandparents You don't say oh, yeah, then afterwards we you know dad fucked me from behind for three hours Like you don't say that to your kids, right? So we they understand that like mom has Relationships, they don't know if it's male or female, you know that I'm going out with I just am going out with a friend and we we keep it at that so that way and and they're smart So, you know, they see spades all the time. So my daughter. Why do you like these spades so much? They make jokes like we think you're a sex worker. We think that you're a stripper We think this we think that and we just kind of make jokes like I'll say, hey, do you like the vacation? You just went on if you want that vacation, you know, when they think we're being funny and you know, I've had conversations with my son Eve actually Encouraged me to check in with my son after he had seen some questionable texts after a day And you know it was a great comfort was a great conversation where I just said to him You know, do you need to talk about the texts that you saw? He said, well, I saw her figure you were joking if you weren't joking It's okay. I don't care what you and dad do as long as when it's time for me to do those things You don't give me a hard time then we're cool. And I said, well, yeah smart guy, right? So I'm like, well, you know, you know that you always have mom and dad support At least you know that whatever I'm doing dad's aware of I think it would be super weird for you to have a detailed conversation about this with your mom Um, and then it was a really good time to just open up about safe sex You know, just know that we're being safe where there's testing that's happening There's condoms that are being used and and I want that for you to write when it's your turn to start becoming sexually active You're gonna do those things too. Um, and then we left it at that, you know, so we don't it's inappropriate to talk about details But they also it's not a secret. There's no shame. So it's not a secret in our house either That makes sense. I couldn't imagine being able to be that open with my parents when I was growing up It was not possible for me And so I feel like this is better than that And so You know more positives that have come out of our openness and I know our ability to be so communicative Within our couple situation it extends to our daughter to our son and like they both are super free and able to Without shame come to us literally about anything And your responses are measured to the level of their knowledge and inquisitiveness. I guess it's the right word Uh, and you're and you're matching that level. You're not over sharing You're sharing just enough And in a way that it it doesn't necessarily provoke Questions or fear or anything else in them. So congrats guys. I mean I applaud that. Thank you. Yeah, and they humble me because like, you know, I'll be out You know tanning my booty and a fang bikini and they'll be like, uh mom, you're gross put that away You know or my daughter be like, uh, you know, where are you wearing that? You know You're going on as a dinner like that. You look like a slut mom and I'm like, thank you You know, so they humble me. They they put me back into you know groundedness Um, so I'm like kids. Don't you want to go inside and play video games? As long as they're talking to you like that, you're in good shape Exactly. No, exactly. You think that they've sort of seen And this is just something that, you know, even if I and I have I've I've felt it, uh, viscerally is that Going through this relationship transformation. I would call it Has changed every aspect of our lives, you know, we're in more of an FLR type situation now It's it it rolls so effortlessly effortlessly off my tongue talking to the children about like mums in charge Like this is mums have It's it's mums money. It's you know, mom's the one that makes the decisions and you know She'll talk to me about it, but it's ultimately it's her decision And they're just understanding that that is just the that is the way our relationship is You know, if if mom is like trying to get them to get into bed or do any of those sorts of things They know that dad can still come down the hall and kick their ass But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be like, you know started from mom, but it's have you noticed those sorts of Differences in your relationship seems as you know, how your relationship is adjusted. I suppose Yeah, 100 and I think what's been really interesting more recently is just with my son is he starts to get his own independence And his ideas of things he'll get frustrated because he'll be like, well, mom never does anything around the house You know, so then if I try to discipline on him about something he's like, well What do you do around here? Like he'll get a little pushy with me And so we've had to have those conversations about well Listen, like this is the way we run this household when you grow up You get to decide how you're going to run your household, but this is what we do and in this situation You know, mom is in charge and mom does sit on the couch a lot and mom does this You know, uh, you know, she doesn't do so much around because that's the way that's what makes us happy And that's what makes us work as a couple and you guys are going to go away something And we're not going to we're still going to be together So it's okay for you to not like this, but you need to deal with it until you're while you're still living with us So that's been what's interesting to me as I feel like when they're little Exactly what you described. They just kind of go with it, right? They go with the punches But as they've gotten older and they've started to ask questions and have their own ideas and opinions We've had to, you know, help others in that piece of it too Yeah, and we have been this way literally forever, right? So even before it became cuckolding and to that level of like in our sexual life It was always like I did the cooking. I do the laundry I helped out a lot around the house And you know, we had a very conscious discussion and made a decision at the very outset of our marriage like If you stay sexual and horny I will literally take care of everything else. So you don't have to worry about it I don't I want you to like you go ahead and say in shape You go ahead and buy nice clothes and get your nail on and look beautiful and be sexy And I will take the rest of the burden away from you in order to facilitate that because that's what's important to me For you and for us. So deal and she was like, um, yeah So let's make that happen Because the flip side of it is I grew up in a house where where my mom Never rested, right? And where my dad sat on the couch and read the newspaper and complained about what we have for dinner Right. And so for me, I am a strong personality. I was like, I'm not doing that. I won't fucking do that I'll stay single for the rest of my life. There's no way I'm getting into a relationship with a man who's going to do those types of things So naturally that was always worked because that's what I was always looking for Was someone who was going to be involved and be active and do their fair share And I just got lucky that he does more than his fair share But yeah, that's that's it Um, you had asked about the the struggles that we went through. Yeah, that's what we want to know In our evolution. What was the evolution like? Yeah, so I think that that kind of disconnect between him not feeling super comfortable participating But me feeling like he needed to participate Led to him being like well, maybe the problem is is that I want to play too Maybe it's that I'm jealous that you're getting all the attention and I want that for myself So we went through a period where we said, okay, let's try Involving women. You want to talk about a little bit. Well, abject disaster. Yeah That's that covers that whole situation. Yeah Pretty much a disaster. Yeah, but we we went through the whole gamut of things, right? It was like, no, we're gonna be a hot wife. Um, that's gonna be the thing. We're gonna do MFM. Great. Let's do that Okay, how about if we try couples? Okay, let's do that. Okay. How about if we both are just open? Okay, let's do that None of that was successful at all because one, Jesse does not like the fair and two I don't particularly love the attention in those situations like one-on-one. I'm great in a group with Setting and distractions. I don't know what it is for me But like I can't focus and I'm just like Not comfortable at all and she is like Show up to the room her clothes vanish I think it's some sort of a magic trick or like a basketball team when they come out and they just kind of like Polish She's like ready to go. She's wet. She's Blowing three guys And like there's like a strobe light that no one even brought and like I don't know what it is But Jesus are and so it was like I'm like you see the same things here that I'm seeing right and eventually she was like Yeah, okay. I'm the son so fine. Let's just do that And so I have that same joke with Eve like there's a there's a you know from Bruce almighty You know with uh with Jim Carrey There's a gift that gets around where you know He just like takes his clothes off by throwing his hands down the side of his You know buddy, it's all of his clothes go off. I'm like that's pretty much exactly what happens every time he's To see a boyfriend. It's just like This is fun. It just seemed to magically come up like it starts with heels and earrings and then like three hours later I'm like under the couch in the corner like babe. I don't know where you threw it this time, but We'll probably just buy new ones. Yeah, we recently so recently we lost a lube. Okay, so we were at this We were at this Oh my god, so two that's true too. I I left mine. Okay. So it was we were at an event Um, and we there was this actor party and I was under the impression this actor party was just going to be like a bunch of us locals Like sitting and hanging out. I did not think there was going to be sex in fall So and I was exhausted at this point. I had sex with 29 Guys in the span of three days. So I was like exhausted. Okay, and I'm like, I'm done. I'm shot So we get to this party Shoot nice comes out of coupe. Yeah, exactly. We had a nice still though. That's a trick. That's a trick So I wear like I go I'm like, we're just gonna chill gonna hang out half a little tricks So we get there and of course The sex starts to happen and of course I can't contain myself I'm like grabbing people's dick doing this doing that. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna fuck this guy But I don't have my lube. So one of my local goals that I see quite frequently I know his lube doesn't bother me. It doesn't cause me any issues So I'm like, can I borrow your lube? He's like, yeah, of course take it So I give it to rich because he's my he's my my guy with that stuff. You know, I luba Yeah, exactly. I start fucking this guy Well, we're fucking on like one of those fold out couches Because the room it was like a two room suite So there's like a a fold out couch that's been turned into a bed There's a queen size bed and then there's another room with two twin beds And basically it's just like this crazy orgy and everybody is just going crazy So at some point on the bed with this guy. I think the lube must have slipped under the bed Well, now at that point I've already moved on to Guy number two of four or five And I need lube again and i'm like, where's lube? And he's like, I thought you had it I'm like, no I'm chasing her like holding shoes and like bags and Apparently I have lube in there somewhere and she's like bouncing around like Hubert Um, and like she's on this guy and then i'm like, there's a baby's reference right there I'm going back to the bed. I'm like poking between people like, hey, did you see this move? Excuse me. We need to find we lost our friends lube and we need to find it Um, so we did not find it and then like we're apologizing to him while he's fucking another woman. He's like, don't worry about it. Okay Yeah So we never found it and we're so like, I can't believe we lost that lube So honestly rich. I'm kind of thinking this is a this is a coke failure a little bit I can only agree with you. So like we're judging you Here's a circumstance where this so we could probably do a three-hour episode on just the ongoing of this room Um, maybe we can talk about life, but it's a time to try to do because it was amazing But anyway Um, I'm following her. She's again like he's all over the place and that's super fun But like trying to keep up with her at times is difficult So I get back to Where she is and like now she's with a guy and it's going really well and i've got a front row, right? And i'm like I really should go find that lube, but like i'm like, I don't want to miss this either So like i'm like running into the other room at times and i'm like quickly like, hey, did you see this lube? Did you see this lube? It's black and it's like about this big Or like dude, yeah, I don't know but yeah I was like really trying to make up for the fact that i'd lost it and like find it But it was dark and there were blue lights and there was just like so So so much activity that it was like, yeah, I think it's Shit, this is the only time I don't have to man a camera and I got to look for lube Absolutely, and he had just gotten his ass whooped from the dungeon room Like 30 minutes prior so his he had bruises like you would not believe the next day that lasted like a week So he's like in pain looking for the lube trying to enjoy And this was supposed to be just drinks with friends We showed up in like pool slides and t-shirts because she was like, oh no It's going to be this casual like little just after party where we're gonna chat and that's gonna chill It was full of old t-nees or dwarves We've all thought multiple people i'm up to 29 so i got to 32 which was which was nice You think you could go with cocktails in their servant sausages. Yeah, that's exactly it If they're sausages, i'm taking it. That's the problem That's true He had a handful of maybe the biggest dick i've ever seen in my life And she's like, should i be touching this like this and i'm like don't ask me Cocktail weenie speaking which was the other idea for the name of this podcast Yeah, oh my gosh Yeah, that sounds like an amazing event and after party The event is incredible and like we were talking to someone else recently about lifestyle things and they were like You know the things that you're describing seem really well organized Really secure really safe. It seems like you guys have a great time everybody's so nice and i'm like, yeah Like that is literally exactly what it is and this is like hundreds of people No issues Everyone's friendly The women are supportive of each other which is something in the real world You just don't see especially with her she draws weird drama for some reason I don't know if it's the how hot she is or whatever it is, but like she or it's like, oh your dress is beautiful Oh, you're laundry looks amazing. Wow. Those are great tits like everybody is just like on the level and it's so nice to see that No, and i'm glad you said that because That's another thing that I feel is super important is that once we got really serious about Being him being a cock and me being the only one being active I got really serious about my health as well. And so a lot of times I feel like when people are new to this lifestyle They're just so excited to have all the sex and how all the fun that it's like let's do that and we'll worry about the health piece later But I think that one of the pieces of advice when I do my coaching with couples who want to be Oh, and couple dresses. I say to them, you know, listen You have to find a good place where you feel comfortable to test at least once a month You know, you have to use condoms with somebody new who can't show you a clear test You have to be sure that your you know I always as a general rule with someone for the first time that I thought them even if i'm going to make content with them in the future I tell them I want to use condoms because I want to feel that respect and I want to feel that you're not just Trying to go on over on me or, you know, trying to trick me into doing something I'm not comfortable doing I've canceled dates of the day of the day because a guy has said something like Oh, I'm going to come inside you so I can make you pregnant And I'm like, nope, that's not my thing. I'm not going to do that And even if the guy was like, no, I'm sorry. I was just, you know, joking or just playing a fantasy I will be like, no, it's all bets off and now we're done So for me, that's another thing I think is really important is just your health and the health of your car Because he's caged. So if you get something you're bringing it to them and you're bringing it home and that's not fair So that's like a huge piece for me too Is is that's part of my leadership role is to make sure that I'm taking care of my health and You know, sometimes I'll even be every seven days testing depending on how busy I am So it's it's one of the things that's super important and I think it's it's not talked enough about enough But it needs to be so just want to throw that out there Yes, we think it's a responsibility that all of us owe to the lifestyle in general Yes Right if we want to continue this if we want this to be happy And good for people Then everybody has to take care of their health and everybody has to follow certain rules And one of those things is use condoms with strangers period And we show that on our our media at times and you know at the in the beginning it would frustrate me a lot People be like, oh You can't you know, like you're not lifestyle. You're not this you're not that like why are you using condoms? You can't use condoms to make it real and it's just like well, that's ridiculous So now I respond a little more constructively and I'm like, no in given circumstances. This is why this might be appropriate, right? and like You know trying to be a little bit more constructive, but like yeah, it's one of the silliest things I love the guy with the two who's dick who's going to tell me that I'm not a real queen of spades because I use That's my fear of mine. So I know that these guys want to hear about the evolution And I think that the the story where you actually made the leap is one of the greatest stories ever So I think you should tell which which story well, we love story time The dinner when you asked the first time you actually fuck somebody that wasn't it? So first time I and this was the only white guy by the way Um the first time that we took the leap and I actually fucked somebody else We went out to dinner and we were we had been kind of playing hot and heavy with fantasizing at home And we saw this guy who was a waiter and he to me was gorgeous. He was a baby He was only as it turns out 20 and I was 35 32 Yeah, so he just was beautiful and he was really cute and he was super innocent And we were sitting at the bar having drinks and I looked at rich and I said I'm going to take that guy home tonight and I'm going to eat him alive And he's like really? And I'm like, yes, I was ready. It was on so He becomes our waiter And you know, he comes over to the table and I am doing like all kinds of stuff To try to help this guy understand that I'm interested in him And that I'm you know fascinated and you know in in who he is what he looks like So I'm like touching his hand while he's taking my order I'm making like ridiculous inappropriate sausage jokes about like, you know, oh, I'm going to have this meal And you know, I'm going to do this and now like I'm trying to make literally everything that comes out of my mouth Every in the window possible Yes So at one point Rich went to the bathroom I actually got up out of my chair And went over to him where he was checking out our our order and I was robbing his arm And I'm talking to him and I'm just like Literally like putting myself on a platter for this guy Okay, and the way that the kitchen worked in this place There was a open Kitchen so they could see into the restaurant while it cooks and all the cooks are like watching this go on and like It's a spectacle. I'm creating a complete spectacle of myself So she looked about as hot as a woman could have ever looked In any circumstance ever that night that entire restaurant Was just focused on her the people in the kitchen had to screw up orders Rock stuff because every time I looked over they were like craning their necks to see what's going on Hedgehogs or whatever those guys that poked their heads out are looking like Everybody in the restaurant was focused on her. It was incredibly the energy was Just indescribable. I was the main character. You know like the kids are like, oh, we just found the main character I was the main character that night and everybody else was just there for me and I was just feeling it It's like the first time I felt that power and so the night's over and he's giving us our dessert and Rich puts a text on his phone. He uses a no-pad and it just basically says hey john Wanna fuck husband is okay with it and then it said yes, no, maybe and when I sign the check I pass the phone along with it And so he's looking at the phone with a confused look and he's looking at the check and then he picks up the phone And he looks at it and he's like looks at me looks at rich looks down the phone again. He's like, um Yes This is I've never I've never done anything like this before but yes Is there this necessary? I'm of all time. Oh my gosh, right? So we ended up I don't know man. Like that could have been easily a trap I've seen I've seen plenty of movies like this, right? Well, yeah And so we we ended up drinking we ended up meeting for drinks afterwards because he didn't he needed like another hour to finish up And so he's like listen. I have to tell you though. I'm only 20 We're like, don't worry. We know a place we'll get you in. So we we get to this bar I'm like he's not gonna show he's gonna chicken out. I'm like, you know There's no way this is really gonna happen because you guys know what it's like if there's that little bit of time to run Sometimes guys will flake and run. So I'm like this that's what's gonna happen. Nope. Here he is He shows up. We get him in we get him a drink and then just like you sent us a question start So are you guys like ex murderers or something? Are you How is this gonna work are you like gonna be in the corner? And I'm like well the way she wants it like you're gonna be kind of here And I'm gonna be kind of over there and then we'll like switch to here and there and he's like all right all right Well, you know how did the questions start like well does he get to do stuff? No, well, why? He doesn't get to play with other women. No. Well, how come it's not our thing And then he'd be like, can I touch you? Yes, you can touch me. This is so weird with your husband here Okay, I sent him to the bathroom so that you know, I can help this guy feel a little more comfortable You know, I think we've all been in the bathroom Yes, and this is the first time for me too. So I'm like just Figuring this out as I go along, you know, so he comes out to us making out We decide okay, we're gonna get out of there. I run to the bathroom myself and I literally looked at myself in the mirror And did the happy dance. I'm like, ah, you know, this is finally gonna happen Um, so we we got home and I started I started blowing him And he almost came in like 10 seconds And I had a stop and I looked him in the eye and I said, oh no, baby. Not yet. We got a lot more to do Um, and so then I I took him up and we went into the bedroom We did a lot of stuff. He had a little bit of a hard time I think you know with with the whole dynamic. So there wasn't a ton of actual fucking that went on Um, but from that moment on I was addicted to the power the feeling And the fact that like we didn't have that much actual penetrative sex didn't even matter Because that was it. I was hooked. I was addicted and I just wanted more. It was a scenario. Yep On your percent How did you feel about a real story? Yeah, we didn't sleep So like one weird thing that would happen to us for the first like few times that we did it is We would be so energized after that neither of us could sleep and like we didn't even realize it for a while But after that I felt great like it was super fun and like Definitely lived up to the hype like Even if we had only done what we did at the bar it would have been cool because both of us kissing her both of us touching her like I mean it was dream come true. Right like I had been begging for this for Probably six months to a year maybe And that I actually have that no on my phone still it's from september 9th of 2016 So almost like eight years to the day in about six weeks, right? So like Um, we've been at a while, but yeah, I mean it was amazing and I definitely wanted more Um, and I wanted now like okay somebody who can really come in and get the job done Right because that was what sort of fell down like after the initial excitement of time one like we told you earlier We're go getters. So we were like, no now we need someone who can really fuck right? So like how do we get that and then that took 700 years because finding a good ball Is it really really much harder than anybody thinks it's ever going to be We also have a episode on that where we basically say Good luck That phone message you've got to get that printed on a t-shirt to wear it a bit Yes lots of guys will just walk up and press yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes I love that. I love that. Yep Yeah, and I think you know that leads to kind of where we ended up next because From there we did find somebody and we found somebody that I liked a little bit too much um, and so at certain points. I was seeing him so frequently. I was kind of Breaking rules to see him Because I became a little bit obsessed with how good the sex was how good the chemistry was How good the situation was and and that's what started to cost issues ultimately between rich and I Because it was going a little too far too fast for what he was comfortable with And there was a lot of I wasn't comparing in my mind like for me. It's apples and oranges I never compare the sex that I have with with which to the sex that I have with a bowl Or any other bowl right like I like all my bowls for different reasons But I think that that was where we started to have trouble Was just that I became a little too fixated on this one guy this one situation and getting it As often and often as I as I could and that just caused real issues between us And that's when we started opening up our marriage. He was with other women There was a relationship. He was involved in that turned really south and went into a really bad Bad place and we had to shut it all down for about two years Because we needed a serious break of just like okay. We're betraying each other Yeah, we're we're not being honest with each other We're betraying each other and we're gonna either end up divorced or we've got to stop and like really fix some things um, so that's that's kind of What happened in the first was that first five five years? Yeah, that was like the first iteration Yeah, it's the kind of a be careful what you ask for right? So what I was just mentioning was we need to find somebody who can really fuck well I've been the only person around who could fuck at all and now there was somebody else and now She was having something that was really really good and wanting it and desiring it and going after it And that's a hard realization when that hits home like that that first time And even sometimes now for everybody out there like it's not something that you just stop working on Or you can just sort of check and like it just will be great forever without effort or Uh continued maintenance and communication, but like that first time was like, oh wait Um, this is how that feels and this does not feel great Always and so kind of working through that and you know Refiguring out what that was and you know getting back to where we are now took a lot of effort and a lot of conversations and That's such a beautiful thing This yeah, it's amazing. That's really amazing if this lifestyle is nothing if it's not communication Right you to be able to take that that high of that sexual transgression that you are enjoying And bring it back down to a conversation between the two of you That developed a better mechanism for you to move forward What could have broken some couples up made you guys stronger and that is a beautiful thing Yeah, and I think you know Sometimes you think you're communicating, but you're actually not because you're nothing honest with yourself Or you're afraid of what happens if you say what you're really thinking inside your head So I think that that was one of the things for us is we thought we were great communicators And we thought we were really good at being communicating with each other telling each other what we thought And when things started to really fall apart. It was like well, you know what i'm actually not been fully honest with myself I haven't really fully been honest with you And so that's like our that's not one of our number one rules now is Say what you're thinking if it's bothering you for more than 24 hours You have to talk about it Even if it's uncomfortable and it's a hard conversation and you feel like you have no bones because you're like the noodles sharing all this stuff You have to do it because that's what prevents it from becoming a disaster is that vulnerability of You know, we just had a recent conversation where it's like look I had certain thoughts that scared me and I know they're going to scare you, but I we need to talk about it Right And so that's that's part of it is just being like no, you cannot keep anything to yourself You have to share and you have to Take that it is a risk even when you've been married to somebody forever It's still a risk to be like hey, I'm having this scary thought or I'm having the scary feeling or i'm not sure about this thing So that's that's what we learned is you have to bring it there if you want It's really salient advice that's incredible advice because I think A lot of the time. I think this goes for any relationship We believe our own lies that we tell ourselves So then it is difficult to communicate to someone the truth When you can't even recant the truth You know because it's it you can spin it in such a way and and that can happen in so many different reasons That you can spin it as a coping mechanism You can spin it as a something to just you know Maybe change the situation because it didn't happen how you wanted it to happen. So you try and remember it differently You know, there's all sorts of reasons why those that why it can happen and yeah, I think If you're continually openly communicating Sometimes you do have to stop and do do a bit of that internally just go So am I doing this? Am I saying what I mean? How do I really feel about the situation that that we're in and think Internally first And then I can guarantee you you will probably say more and and more will come up when you're talking externally For sure I would find it difficult to believe that there are couples who communicate more than they do And at the level that we feel safe, right? But that was something that we had to get over and you know for her and her role She sometimes brings up like well I don't want to be doing anything that makes you feel badly or negatively and I'm like Yeah, but we can't necessarily present that What I need from you in those circumstances is a safe place to come To be able to communicate that I do feel badly or that I feel negatively And what I need is a little bit of a clarification about what's going on and a little bit of reassurance and i'm going to go Okay, let's go find another guy for you to fuck and i'm going to be great Yeah, but if I come and i'm met with no, you shouldn't feel that way Or now you're putting this burden on me by feeling this way That's going to make me go in the opposite negative direction much harder Um, then it would have been if we just have that simple conversation and you validate my feelings like yeah that guy fucking blew my mind and you stood there and you watched and it made you feel away And here's you know Here's the opportunity to kind of talk that out and and get you to where you need to be to feel confident again and and be okay And that's really all I need in those moments And sometimes it can be as simple as like I say something about a guy being hot or whatnot And he'll be like, eh, I didn't like that. It just didn't hit right today You know, um, it just can be something as simple as that, but then you just have to talk through Um, so for me, it's just been learning that it's okay. I can separate my emotions. I can have loved a situation And he can have hated it and I don't have to feel guilty about loving it I can still love that I thought that guy and love everything that I did It's okay for me to do that but I also need to Understand that he didn't have that same experience and i'm going to make him feel comfortable again And that's what it comes down to you know I don't want to jinx you guys by saying that you seem pretty unbreakable, but uh, let's just say I think you've uh, I think you're at a good place. Let's just Yeah That means a lot. Thank you. It does it does I mean I there are there are always issues in a relationship right and two people are coming with So much baggage for for whatever reason and ultimately our baggage ended up lining up relatively well I mean I tell her all the time. She's the only person I think on earth that I ever actually really trusted I have like some abandonment things and whatever for whatever reason past relationships, what have you I think a lot of the stumbles that we had in the lifestyle were based in that we're basing kind of me Testing like, okay If I say this thing if I do this thing if I am this way are you going to turn and run? Or are you going to be there for me? And I think that the the struggles we went through a few years ago that we overcame and got to where we are now Kind of in the strangest way possible sealed that for me where like no, I I believe Hubs that we are unbreakable like in my mind now That's never the thing That that this will end or that this will become you know that we will not be married to each other and like That thought literally never crosses my mind anymore. It's not it's not even something that I consider possible. Yeah, awesome And that was a I had a lot of those concerns when we kind of started dipping our toes in the lifestyle as far as oh my gosh I broke this thing It's I'm going to we did this thing. It's over This is the off-ramp that leads to this not happening, but Yeah, I mean there's a point where you just get to where like, you know what we can work through stuff We care enough about each other that we'll deal with that Yeah, for sure communicate communicate communicate 100% We have had an amazing conversation with some amazing people today And I'm super glad to have gotten to know them better and spend some time Before we wrap up, I just like to go around and visit but you know ask for final thoughts Jesse and ritz jail have any final thoughts you'd like to share Yeah, I mean for me the key to understanding and being successful in this lifestyle is knowing that you are going to have some of the most fun hottest experiences of your life like you are going to be living other people's dream but just like everything in life that also means that there's going to be some periods of Figuring shit out that don't feel so great. And so it's just for me That's the biggest thought is like understanding that you have to ride the wave And there's always going to be a wave and you know understanding that if you want those highs You've got to navigate the lows to get right back up to that high again So for me, that's that's what I would want to leave people with with your listeners just to think about those things and know that Yeah, yeah for me. I mean we could probably talk for hours and hours and hours if so much to cover I'm just really glad that we got an opportunity to speak with you guys and and talk about our experience and Hopefully help others either continue to focus on their relationships or take the leap and find the joy that we've found But I think the one thing that I would probably leave with is that Desperation leads to poor decisions and in this lifestyle. That's definitely true as well I think there was a time where it was like no, we have an opportunity to meet this guy So let's just do that even though there are red flags or it feels rough or the circumstances aren't great Letting go. I think of that desperation Is has been one of the biggest keys to the success of our relationship and so be patient Do things that feel good for both of you And you know, I think good things will come and check in Yeah, make sure make sure that it feels good for both of you and what feels good and What were the rough spots? What can we sand out and like how can we make things a little bit better You guys have been incredibly forthcoming and just so authentic and generous with your time and your energy. We're so grateful Thank you so much for having us. We're so happy to be here Oh my final thoughts are as There's a cuckold Always takes bear lubricant He needs one of those in his one of those utility belts Just like just push just put some in your pocket. You know, you never know quick draw You never know when I might get flicked under the bed or something Now look, uh, it's all serious. That's what look I think that there was a fantastic conversation with these guys because you know, really being through from from Such a young age and getting into a relationship and then moving right through You know, they're they're at all years and into having children and then you know moving into a lifestyle position And it's it's just a phenomenal story and so good to hear the success and such wisdom. So no, it really great conversation guys I just again I applaud you and for our listeners whether you're on the journey or whether you're dipping your toe in the water for the first time This is a great example. These two when things get tough And they will get tough You get you you get to where they are By not shrinking from the tough stuff you tackle it you approach it head on And and you talk and you communicate and um You guys uh, you guys are a great example and I would encourage folks You know, if you found some information that you thought was useful Go back and listen to this again because there's a lot of gold in this episode And these two have been fantastic to have so guys appreciate you I really like you guys. I hope at some point I get to give you a big old po bear hug if we ever in the same physical spaces at some point because Me too rest you too all of you. I'm a hugger and you guys are all hug worthy. So Yeah, I'm a kiss you right on the face I'd like to thank everyone for joining us today. If you have any comments on today's episode or any other episode Please reach out to us on twitter or by email. We're gonna put the details in our show notes And we'll have all the places that you can find the wonderful miss jesse and vidster rich because They're out there in the social media world and you could probably enjoy scrolling some Amazing films From from the whole panel here cut my life take care and we'll see you next time You (upbeat music) (upbeat music)