[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner. And I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self-discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy, and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. Hey, guys. Today's episode is with Rina Friedman Watts. She is an entrepreneur, and her Instagram bio says, "Kicking Doors Down, Community Building." And she has a podcast with her dad, which I love, called Better Call Daddy. And she's a really cool person with a really good heart. And I had a really good time with her, and I've been so grateful for all the wonderful guests. So I hope you guys enjoy this episode with Rina and me. Here you go. [MUSIC PLAYING] Emotionally Unavailable. Hi, Rini. Hey, how are you? Good. How are you? Good. I love the name of your show. Thank you. One day I was-- well, because I was going to do it-- I was begging my friend to do it with me, because I just thought I wasn't interesting enough to have a podcast by myself. And I was like, what's relevant? Because this is the shit I like to talk about. So how can I fit that in? And I was learning to become more emotionally available. So I was like, emotionally unavailable. That's a great title. Thank you. It is a good conversation piece I find. But I was looking through your Instagram a few minutes ago, because-- well, you know how it is. And man, you're like, I'm an energy person. So I'm like, you're so good. Everything about you is just so-- Thank you. Are you a Leo? Because I just get sun vibes off of you, man. Oh, I'm a Libra. Close. OK. That makes sense, actually. I attract a lot of Libra's. I don't know what it is. Yeah, like, so many fucking people. My clients, people on the podcast, whatever, Libra's. I don't know if you're into astrology, but there's a lot going on. Oh, a little bit about it. But yeah. In my Libra house, there's a lot happening. So I know that that's why I've learned my greatest lessons from Libra's. I fucking love them. Some of them men, my collective self is so happy for the lessons. My personal self wishes they'd leave me the fuck alone sometime. Oh, yeah, that's incredible. And we're coming into Libra season. We are in Libra season. Yes, officially we are. And oh, you have an AI assistant. OK. Did I kick that out? Yeah, it said, hey, I'm the note taker. Just letting you know, taking notes for arena. That is funny. Yeah, I think that that automatically turned on. I didn't even ask it to. How cool is it? Well, whenever it popped up as Rena's note taker, I was like, God, she's way cooler than me. What is it? It says, I can't remove this participant, man. That's just it's emotionally unavailable for that. That is exactly what it is. Man, OK, so I just like to vibe. I like to see what the people are about, you know. Totally. You know, going to just take the conversation where it goes. But is there a place that you would like to start? Could you tell me a little bit of-- I saw you're like, you know, entrepreneur. You're out there fucking building people up, teaching them how to build themselves up. I mean, that's that's the vibe. So yeah, yeah, your words. So I started a podcast with my dad a little over four years ago because my dad is the one who builds me up. And I felt like he gave me a lot of really good advice that other people might be able to use. So I wanted to share that with the world. And I knew that he wouldn't back out on me. So it's amazing how starting a project with your dad and your 40s can be super meaningful. Oh, my God. I like my heart just feels so happy for you, honestly. It's crazy. Like he actually plans his day around it. Like one, you know, he's going to go travel to Chicago today to meet a client with another guy that he's doing some consulting work with. And he like planned his trip around recording an episode with me. And I'm like, wow, that's nuts. Oh, my God, why is your dad giving me teary? I must have like took too many edibles last night because like I'm already getting teary eyed. He's so into it. Like he went to his high school reunion. He's like roped in a couple guys, you know, he goes with a grocery, he meets some woman with the dog that's got a story and sends me a picture. He's like so old school. Like he is a walking marketing representative for anything he's into. Is he a Gemini? He's born in June. Uh-huh, June what? 20 second. Oh, he's actually a cancer. He's the first day of cancer season, but he sure act like a Gemini. He's such a good guy. That's the thing. I've watched him take care of his parents. He's got three daughters. He's a sensitive, cool guy. Yes, he's a girl dad. Oh, he's any of them, dude. What? Yeah, I don't make up like him. It's crazy. Man, but here's what I know. They're, I think, I think your dad probably is like us. Like if you're in your 40s, you're Gen X too. So, you know, like they kind of most of the generation that raised us kind of fucked us up a little bit, you know? Oh, for sure. I mean, we didn't, we kind of fucked people up too, 'cause we don't know about, it's all related to being emotionally unavailable, no matter how great they were, how patient they were, whatever. Oh, yeah. Know how to read themselves to be able to walk you through to kind of co-create what that will look like for you in the future, that at the very least. Now, most of us Gen X got a lot worse than that, but at the very least, that can play a role in how our relationships develop. But what I love is men like your dad and then people like me and you, we're like, hey, we can always improve. We can always do better. We can always, whatever. I mean, I was just like, well, I had to change. But like, you know, your dad sounds like he was always a pretty good guy, but like he's seeing the areas even now that like he can do better and do better. Like, you know, to be his full authentic self. And I love that. Like, yeah, he definitely, with a workaholic, most of my childhood. And I feel like maybe he's making up for a little of not being around. And yeah, like you said, you can always work it out. Like he's spending that quality time now. My dad has been a part of literally over 400 episodes with me. That means that guy has listened to over 400 hours of me interviewing people. I mean, if that's not quality time, what the hell is? - Right. Yeah. Well, and especially because like, if he's involved in any of the editing, like that alone, like I feel so when I'm editing, I wish for the day that I can give that job away. But I'm so like, when I'm editing, I feel so much closer even to that guest than I did even when like I'll relive it and hear things I didn't hear and whatever. And I'm like, oh, I love them. But like, if your dad is in the conversation at all and you're getting to like, you just feel so close to these people that you have these intimate, you know, communications with. So I can see that. - I feel spiritual about it. Like literally I feel like God is walking these people into my life. And you know, I connected with the woman yesterday that we had connected six months ago. But I believe that, you know, maybe things needed to happen in our life before we actually recorded. Like we connected a little bit ago. It was through somebody that I trust and love. And you know, I had in the back of my mind that I wanted to record with her, but not everything happens right when you connect. Sometimes it's just putting those people on your radar for like the right moment. - Right. And like I recorded on Friday with a couple of girls that have their own podcast, especially funny, they're hilarious. They're great girls. Like they're my age. It was so fun. But if we had been able to like correspond and make it happen when we first started talking about it like a month ago, even, like I'm not even that person anymore. And I was like, when I was sitting there with them, I was like, this is the exact version of myself that I needed to be, to be able to give what I wanna give in these moments. And also to receive what I wanna receive, you know, like it felt so good because I was in a space where, well, I think the further I move along into my journey of compassion, like 'cause that's been the big piece for me to pick up because, you know, I was a person who didn't really know how to connect with others unless I was listening to their life story and giving lots of lovely advice, which I've always done. I did that on purpose, put myself in the center of everybody's problems so that I could fix them and not have to deal with me, but or like kind of awkward, you know, like, and we would start to connect kind of by talking shit about other people, you know, like that, it's been hard because some of my friendship I've had to lose because I literally don't wanna talk shit. Like I, if there's not a purpose in the communication, like if you're venting to me, I now really can see every side of the situation and I'm gonna validate you, I'm gonna hold you and then I'm gonna give the other perspective because that's compassion for me. Like, you know, I'm just, that's who I am. I have to be exactly who I am and think and say what I'm thinking and I just give it freely, but I think because of the evolution and where I am now, I'm holding so much space for every feeling that you can feel that I'm not dismissing people when I offer the other perspective. I've just had so much life experience that I can empathize with both sides 'cause I'm like, no, I totally know and you have every right to feel that. But like on this side, let me just give a little explanation of what's happening in that moment when they are behaving like this, you know? But anyway, the point was all my connections were either me listening and giving advice or just nonstop judgment and gossip. That's it. - Interesting, wow. - Which is the mark of a very emotionally immature person. Like, I'm not willing to face my own emotions. So why then would I really try to connect with you in that way? But I didn't realize that. I felt like I was connected to people 'cause I was, you know, trauma dumping and giving them all this lovely advice. What more do you need, Rita? - Trauma dumping, I love it. There's trauma bonding, trauma dumping. - Yeah. - But when did you shift into like understanding that you needed to take a look in the mirror? - Okay, so like I've, that's the biggest shock for me is that I've always been on this journey, always. Like I had a super extensive history of childhood trauma. And I've always been hyper-focused on being self-aware, mostly because I wanted to be smarter than everyone around me so that I could control and manipulate at all times. Like, some of that, there was an awareness and some of it was subconscious. But I've always been like, let me look at myself limit. I had, it was so embarrassing. Like the shame that I felt that there was all of this happening that I was so unaware of, 'cause I'm like, I have this degree. I have blah, blah, blah, you know? And it was like, why, how could I not know? And it literally took, I think it, I'm one of those people who even if the situation doesn't apply to me, I'll take the quiz. I don't know why. And something about emotional availability came up and I was like, and I was like, wait, what, what? And I texted my friend, we worked together but she's also a social worker. And I was like, Sierra, am I, would you call me emotionally unavailable? And she was like, a little bit, a little bit. And I was like, okay, can you help me understand how, like, is there like an example you could give me of like how I'm emotionally a bit? 'Cause like, I listen, I talk, like what more do you need? She's like, the way you retail trauma sister, that's not normal. And I was like, I was just saying this on, with those guests the other day, but I was like, but comedians, that's how they do it. Like they just get up. - Oh, I love how you know about trauma, yes. - Yeah, and that's kind of how I've always told my stories in a very funny way. But I'm like, oh, is that not normal? I literally had to ask. - Now I wanna know. - Yeah. And so she's like, yeah, baby, that's not normal. That's a real disconnect from like, there's a detachment there from you and your lived experience. You're not embodying that. And not that you have to carry that experience in your chest every day. But when I talked about it, I could, I wasn't looking at myself, I wasn't anything. I was just, I wanted to share. That's why I was telling the story, but I was giving all the funny. You know what I mean? Like, and I am funny. I mean, I am, but like, that's where the center was. And so I was like, oh, so I kind of started development. Then I went through a severe mental health crisis and felt very, very, very stuck in every area of my life. So it kind of forced like, all right, it is time to address the dissatisfaction in my life and it must start here. So it was a slow evolution at first and then it was like every day still now, six months later, learning new stuff every day because that's, I've set up my life to where like, all I do is the things I love and work on myself. That's it. Like, I just did not gonna do anything different, you know? - Has that helped? - Yeah, because the thing is, is that I had a really, really, really sensitive nervous system. And because I just didn't know that you had to address the underlying emotions to regulate those before you could ever get your body and sync with what you're trying to do. And oh, like the slight amount of like agitation is kind of the only thing I could ever like feel in my body. And once it started anybody in my field, like it would just be too much stimulation. Like, I mean, it would feel like they were touching me just to be near me. Because that's how sensitive my nervous system was, which if you touch me when I'm escalated, not good. Like, I just go to the red. I'm not gonna, I would hit somebody probably if they didn't back off when I told them to, but I never have. But like, I did right at the end of like all the just crazy with me, I did grab my husband's arm really hard and was like, you have to get the fuck away from me because I was literally about to punch him. But that was the state I was living in at all times, just trying really hard to figure it out, I guess, you know? And I felt so hopeless 'cause it was like, I've been dealing with this every day of my life. Like, when does it get better? But once I started understanding what was happening emotionally to cause this physical reaction, boom, it was this easy thing. 'Cause I tell like my clients who were all the same, so like we intellectualize everything. So we've all done a ton of self-help books, a ton of personal development, even professional development, all the things. And then we're like, I know a lot which perpetuates that cycle of shame because like, I know better, I'm supposed to do better, I'm supposed to do better. And then you throw that masculine energy at the task and you just try to go for it and boom, where do you end up? With no friend. - Burnout. - Yeah, exactly, burnout, that is exactly right. And burnout in every area of my life. Like, you can't get out of bed without like, just all day every day, you know what I mean? - Yeah, those thoughts can be really tough. I've been there too. - Yes, yeah. - We're like, I don't feel like doing anything and I've got a huge long list of a zillion things that need to be done. - Yeah, well, and so then I started taking, well, to be really honest, I took Adderall for fun to give me the energy I needed. And then I didn't want to keep asking my friend for it. So I was like, how else can we get legal meth, huh? Oh, I'll go get on big. - Oh yeah. - So I went and got on finner mean. And I just stopped taking that in July and my body's so happy. - I feel like I'm not like so ugly. - I've been like insanely good at getting shit done if I took Adderall, but it's probably like, the down from that would be really bad. Interestingly, well, I probably really needed it because I only took it because I knew that it was keeping me awake. It, after the first couple of times of taking it, none of the shit that I felt the first two times that I feel the rest of the times, I felt normal. So like, I probably really need Adderall. But I was like, well, I mean, we're not, you know, taking care of ourselves, we're just trying to function. So then I took the finner mean and it was just really nice to like, if I stayed up too late, I could still wake up and like, get ready, you know? But then the longer burnout happened, the more like, I was purposely so late to work every day, the last little bit of working that job before I was like, I knew I was quitting. I'd put in my notice in March, but like, I was just doing so much to just like, try to survive. But so much of that was about like, I can't do it. I cannot make myself get up, get this child ready, blah, blah, blah, and then actually like, get somewhere on time. I was so burnout, my body just refused to move fast anymore. It was just, no, no more fight or flight, no more anything. You're stuck until you deal with this. You know what I mean? - I do, I do, it's tough. - It is. - I'm wondering if there's things that you tell yourself that like, snap you out of it and motivate you. 'Cause I have like little things that I tell myself, you know, like no excuses or, you know, I think about the people that are doing what I want to do. Or I even think about, you know, I did some self-improvement and went to Tony Robbins and did things I didn't think I was capable of doing. You know, they get you to break that board and you think of the fire walkers and you're like, how did I get to that state, right? Like how do it's so hard to like get back there, but you have to think of those moments to like do something great. - Right, yeah. No, that's exactly right. And that's kind of what I teach people too is like, your brain loves when you do something new like that because then you created a new neural pathway. So like, this is now the new normal. And the, what I tell people too is like, it's a beautiful thing when you just introduce a concept like this to your brain. The very next time you encounter the situation, even if it's not perfect and it's just blurry, your brain's like, but do you remember how we got that new information and we could implement that right now? Like it doesn't have to be this, it can be this. And that's what I love about neuroplasticity. You just tell it one time and it's like, I'm just gonna remind you really quickly that you did say you don't want to be a psycho anymore. So now might be a good opportunity to practice not being a psycho. And I'm like, all right, yeah, you know what? Thank you, Brian, I appreciate that reminder. - You're right, I did say that and I meant it and I'm gonna try not to be a psycho. - I've been wishing myself to take different paths and do different things. Like I went to this event last week, it was called gas tech here in Houston. And there's a guy who runs an oil and gas podcast network and he has gotten me into like three or four events in town. And the first couple, you know, the first day, you're really excited 'cause you're like, let me check out this event. Let me see who's there, who can I interview, who's got the best schlock. And then I did a little bit of network coming, but I didn't end up interviewing anyone. And then the next day, my goal was to like interview a couple people live and ended up doing that. And I felt good about it. And I was like, I feel like I got kind of what I wanted from the conference. Like I got to reconnect with the guy that I wanna work for. I got to interview a couple people live, created some fun content, but then I had multiple people reach out to me on the internet and they were like, hey, are you going to gas tech tomorrow? I wasn't even gonna go. I had like calls in the morning, I had things to do. But then since people reached out, I was like, you know what, I could make it there for a half a day. And I decided to go and I created like an impromptu meetup with somebody else that I knew that does that. And we got like 20 people to show up. And I connected with so many great people. So it's like, if there's events happening, or if there's people that you like getting together with and they throw little opportunities your way, like you gotta push yourself, go to new coffee shops, go to new events, collaborate with people that are doing things that you wanna be doing. Even one of the guys who was running the booth, he was like, hey, I have this charity event that I'm not super excited about, but I'm kind of like, have to do. It's on the 30th, do you wanna go? I'm like, yes. - Yeah, see, I'm just now trying to get into that space where, I mean, I think I'm starting to be invited now, but before, actually, I had this coach on my show. And because she was on my show, she offered me a free 45 minute session. I was like, hell yes, thank you. She said, if you're not interested, you can get to us like, fuck them. No, I want, yes, please, thank you. And I was like, okay, so there's this event I'm going to tomorrow. It's not about me, like I'm watching whatever. There is a potential for networking after, but like, I'm trying so hard to force myself to go and be a person that I'm not really. And she was like, okay, well, what are you trying to be? And I'm like, man, I was just picturing myself in the corner just like tense and curled up and whatever. And she's like, okay, now picture yourself as the way you want to be at this event. And I'm like, I just want to be me. I don't want to force anything. If it happens, I want it to happen. And I'm not afraid. I was a little nervous because I can do this all day. Doing this with people watching can sometimes be a little, you know what I mean? For you, that was a totally different vibe. And honestly, I have worked up to doing it in person. Four years ago, when I started doing the podcast, if somebody asked me to speak to a group of 50, 75 people, I would get so nervous. I have pushed myself to do it in like smaller groups, 25. - Right, 75 even starts to make me feel a little bit overwhelmed, but get people in the room who love you and that are your cheerleaders. And that's a whole thing about starting a podcast with my dad. When I'm with my dad, I can be myself. And it would be weird if I wasn't myself around my dad. So I can 100% be the way I am and like, know that even if I'm just doing the show for him, it's worth doing. - Right. Well, so it sounds like, I will, I am aware that for any of us doing anything in the entrepreneur's space, there's a certain self-work that is required. - Oh, yes. - And you are asking yourself to be the light. You are. - Yep. - You're shining on others. And so you have to kind of find that light within first and feel worthy and deserving of being the person that these people look to. Like, I didn't at my core feel that before, but did you feel like you into Tony Robbins? Like, you know, like, was that a struggle before? Was your worth or self-esteem part of getting to where you are now or? - Oh, yes. Oh my God, girl. The confidence piece I've always been struggling with. Yeah, like my dad has a total ham. He always has wanted to be out on stage, but there are people like that. But for me, even in high school, I go back and like read my yearbook and people are like, you know, just believe in yourself more. You've got it. - Yeah, a little less. - Yes, it was already present in high school where I was already starting to doubt myself. I'm already not feeling confident in front of groups of people. I was bullied in middle school. I think some of it stems from that. Before I was bullied, I had a much more just happy-go-lucky attitude about singing or performing or getting up in front of people. But the world beats you down, girl, and you got to find your supporters. - Isn't that true? Well, and then that's the thing. The hard part is when the people that you thought were your supporters, when they don't recognize the things in you, that they can do them themselves. And I mean, that's what it is. I mean, you know, like, God forbid that any of my haters ever hear me say that because they will probably just come for me and be like, no, the reason why, but the thing is, is that I was a good friend, but I wasn't emotionally available. So the only thing we were connecting about was their trauma or bitching about our job together. And I gave wonderful support for that, you know? But then I didn't really, I got the feeling they were tired of hearing how depressed I was, so I stopped talking about that. So then when I got excited about the things I was doing, 'cause I was like, girl, it's either die or go live the life you're meant to live, right? So I started making these books, like I did children's books and whatever, and I'm excited about it, and I'm sharing silence. And then it was said to me like, I don't really know where I fit in your life. Like that's great, you have all this drive, whatever. And I mean, my heart can hear what is being said there, and I get it like in hindsight. Yeah, I probably, I mean, it probably did feel like the only thing I wanted to talk about was me, but they weren't talking. So it was like, okay, well, I don't know what we're allowed to talk about now. So I'm gonna share this, and the friendship's just like dissolved, right? But the truth is, they felt abandoned by me because I was leaving this space, and I was becoming a different version of myself that I had to, I was dying, you know? But that's the thing is that when you start to see what real support is, where there is this, I now understand the concept of unconditional love, where before I didn't, because to me, the love that I've gained for myself, that's unconditional love, and we shared that among me and the people that are right here in my circle, like it is unconditional because I can have compassion for everything that they do. I can't, I'm not saying that I'm gonna put up with every little thing, people, you know? Like if you're toxic, you're toxic, but that doesn't, it's not a reflection of me, your behavior. So like my people, it is so unconditional, 'cause it's just a nonstop flow of love because it's the love that we have for ourselves that's kind of commingling. It's not, we're boosting because of the love we have for ourselves. So when you love the shit out of yourself, you have no problem going and being like, can I love you, please? Like, how can I love you today? And it's not romantic, and it's not people pleasing manipulation, 'cause I'm only gonna do it inside of what I have to give, you know? But part of what I'm here for is to give love to others in this way to help wherever I can. But for me, I wanted to make a career out of that because that is what makes me that. Truly, that's my purpose on this earth. So like, I'm not dumb enough to think that I went through all of that for no reason. Like, I am able to connect with people on every level, and it doesn't matter who you are, what you're going through, you know? That's a gift, that's a very big gift. So I want to utilize my gifts, but that takes loving yourself so that you understand, like, you know, I have to be embarrassed about everything you're doing. You don't have to feel shy. You don't have to feel scared. Like, me in this current state isn't scared of anything. It's that inner child. You know, we still raising her a little bit. She's almost there. I think she's about 17. Now we're getting there. We're getting there. But it is a nonstop process. Just like you never quit becoming a parent, even when your kids are grown, I'm still parenting her. She had a lifetime of no parenting, and I'm re-parenting her. You know what I mean? So it was really the process. - I mean, there's a lot I still haven't addressed and that I just kind of compartmentalize and you work on what you can. And like you said, you develop the talents that light you up and the things that get you excited and motivated and the parts where you're learning, then you can help teach others. And when you teach others, you then learn more about yourself in the non-process. - Yes, yeah. - But yeah, I mean, I'm a mom of four. Oh my God, yesterday I was like, you know, I started my day with pulling the entire ice tray out and ice all over the floor and then having to sweep that up. And then I get the water bottle full and there was a couple ice cubes left behind the ice tray. And as I'm taking my five year old out of the vehicle, the water bottle literally falls out the side of the bag, bursts open on my outfit, top, you know, falls off. - That's a good idea. - Yeah, of course, I'm like, well, you know what? We can sit here and laugh and walk in with a good attitude or you can cry. - I mean, that is so valuable though, because you know what I've been doing? My little coach, Josie, she taught me this. Even this morning I went through a thing and all of a sudden I got really overwhelmed and overwhelmed is a thing that will trigger all of my shadows of shame to fight with each other, okay? So I was like, stop it Melissa. But I can't just say stop it. I can't dismiss. I have to actually transcend the moment, you know? So I was like, what I've been doing is I'm like, how do I want to feel when this is over? Because I'm a person who can sit in whatever feeling I want now. I can go to wherever I want in my brain and in my heart space and be like, okay. And I'm picturing how I want to feel when it's done. I want to feel easy and relaxed and happy, like joyful. I want peace at all times, peace is my currency. That's what I determine anything off. How much of my peace is that going to cost me? Because if it's going to cost me peace, it's got to go. Like, cannot because I've never had this and I'm never getting rid of it, you know? So I was like really freaking out for a second. Like, I even had to be like, okay, I know this is a rational but I'm having that thought where I'm all alone and nobody's helping me and I'm overwhelmed. I'm like, my husband was just sweetly like rubbing my back and I was like, okay, now I just need some space. I walked in my room and I was like, how do we want to feel? And I just got into that feeling. And I was like, perfect, none of that shit matters. Let's go. You know what I mean? - Yeah, breath is so powerful too. - Yeah. - I just take that breath. - Do you ever find that you're a breath holder? - Oh, that's a good question. - An instinct is to hold your, I hold my breath. In fact, I had really terrible sleep apnea as a baby and had my adenoids removed from it. But I'm not so sure that it was sleep apnea. I think I have held my breath my whole life. I think it's a trauma response because-- - Interesting. - You know what I mean? Because that's what we do when a traumatic event happens. Well, for me, I think because it started an infancy, I think that I just did that gasping reflex and then like, that's been my life. I hold my breath all the time. But once I learned like your pain gets better, everything gets better if you can just like breathe. I'm still learning. I'm not like great at breathing, but like, that's so silly. I'm not a good breather, but you know, I'm getting better. But I mean, I have to be very like present and intentional to think about taking good breaths that will help release because that's what they do. They will help you release stored trauma and help you release emotions you're not dealing with. Good breaths will do that, but I was just, I mean, I talk a lot about how I have chronic neck, back and shoulder pain. - Oh, I hold tension there as well. - It hurts so bad and you're lower back too. - Oh, I've had, yes. Libra's like the ruling parts. One of them is lower back. Like all Libra's have this lower. - Really? Oh God, I've had to crawl to the toilet. - Yes, it's so painful. I totally know. - I've had horrible back pain. Yeah, actually it started with my first kid, but there was like a UPS delivery guy that kept ringing my doorbell and it was like kind of raining. I think I was like seven months pregnant or something and I fell down the steps. Yeah, luckily the baby was fine and I was fine, but I hit my like, but I'm like the three lower stairs. - You're never the same after that, do you? - I was never the same after that. - No, definitely. - Yeah, I'd be very careful like how I get in and out of the doors, how I sit. - The car is such like a thing, you know? - Yeah, but yeah, back pain is definitely, I'm always tense. I could always use a massage, you know? I've talked, I recently interviewed a girl, her name is Caroline Bass, and she created a supplement. It's like Ashwagandha and Tulsi Root. - You have not heard of that one? - Yeah, I hadn't either. And I started taking it and I'm very into like trying holistic things. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, and this, and now my teenage son is like taking the whole bottle. You know, you take a couple before bed and it just, it's like instant calm. - Really? - I tried like melatonin. - Yeah. - Melatonin like has some side effects I wasn't into. So, you know, I did that actually like during COVID 'cause during COVID, I couldn't frickin' sleep. - Yes. - So I did a little melatonin, I haven't taken it since then, but this doesn't make you feel like exhausted, you know? Like melatonin's not wake up from that, you know? - Yeah, right, yeah. - You're like out, but this is like a, it's just a calm, it relaxes me, you know? At the end of the day, when you have like that laundry list of things that you wanna attack the next day, like it gets rid of that. Where you can just like breathe and like relax and go to sleep peacefully. So I've been doing that. - I'm gonna have to get some for my Insomniac child and just see if it will help a little bit. - It's amazing. And also, like I know this for myself, I can see like a definite difference in when I work out three days a week, whether it's just doing the elliptical for a half hour or like walking on the treadmill, it doesn't have to even be anything intense. But like that balances my mood. I have to do it for my mental health. Like when I'm walking, I'm like, this is for my mental health, this is for my sanity. - Like that makes me walking. - Yes, and I see that's been the problem for me is that I have to find motivation now out of a place of love for myself versus all the things that I've had to do before. I was in survival mode. I was practicing self-hatred pretty regularly, not even consciously. And now my life is really calm 'cause that's the way I've designed it to be. So like I'm gaining weight, which like physically just doesn't feel good because well, I mean, I stopped taking the thinner means. So like I knew weight gain was gonna be a thing if I let myself eat. And I could still live like that eating pattern that I was doing then if I wasn't being intentional. I'm loving my body by feeding it right now because I have damaged a lot of things from go, go, go. And I liked it 'cause I didn't have to think about food. I would only eat whenever that physical pain would happen. I still have trouble knowing like, is this acid reflux or am I hungry? I don't know, you know? - I have trouble with that too. - It's stupid ability, like you need an accountability partner. I'll tell you like I hadn't worked out in months. I kind of like fell off of doing it and then I have a girlfriend like in her 60s and she's like, I have to do it for my mental health five, six days a week. Like even if I'm just walking or just biking and she's like, also my happy place is the beach. Like she knows that about herself and it completely changed her mindset. I was like, oh, damn, when you're doing that, please call me. Like I'll walk in the treadmill when you're walking on the treadmill and she's kind of-- - It's your baby. - It helped me like get back into the habit of it. And you know, my, I've got two teenage boys that are kind of like, you know, into wanting their bodies to look better and so seeing them doing that too. I was like, hey, when you're going, you know, push me to go with you, you know? I've always been that person that kind of like needs a cheerleader. And so my dad is that and then even, you know, part of my story is I used to love to sing when I was a kid, I'd sing in the shower, I'd sing for my grandparents. And then I auditioned for this youth performing arts school where I didn't read all the fine print. You had to sing in a foreign language and know how to sight read music. I didn't know how to do that. So I just walked in there and like sang a song off the radio and then I didn't get in and I was devastated by it. Like, I really wanted to go to that school 'cause I was kind of bullied and like our homeschool and I wanted to go where like the creatives were. And so my dad like went to the head of the music department and was like, what does she have to do to get another audition? Like, is there a teacher she can study with that you recommend, you know, she'll study. So anyway, my dad got me another audition and I worked with this teacher. I kid you not for four years. I wanted to quit every single day. They let me into the program, but I never felt like the people around me, like I felt like they were all better than me. I never felt on their level. I always felt like the worst one and I was the only one that got the second chance. But you could reframe that. You could be like, wow, like, you really? - Hell yeah, I got a second chance. - Hell yeah, I got a second chance and I showed him what I could do, right? Like I could have thought that, but instead I swear to God for four years, I never sang out. I never felt like I was good enough. I worked with this teacher every single week to learn the music where I could just fit in and, you know, dodge the bullets. Never volunteer for a solo, you know? And even though I got to go to Carnegie Hall and, you know, sing in all these cool places, I never felt like I had made it. Until my senior year, there was a student, Nicole Scherzinger, who took me in the music closet and was like, "Breen and my God." She was like, you know, four years I've been seeing you today's the day. - Oh, the love is right. - The colleges are here, sing to them. You can do this. And she sat in the front row and she affirmed me and she supported me. And I got two small offers, you know, to smaller colleges. And I ended up taking the one that wanted me more 'cause I wanted to be wanted. And I went to this small school. - Not to be special and chosen, I know. - Yes, yes, I know. And you know what, I for once felt like a big fish in a small pond. And honestly, my high school was so much more competitive than the college that I went there for two years and I feel like, you know, it was a good opportunity at the time, but then I transferred to a bigger school and kind of got a job in radio and I wanted more for myself. But yeah, that was a tremendous learning experience. One, that you can turn a no into a yes. Two, that there's always a backdoor. And three, like what grit can do because putting yourself around very successful people will rub off on you, even if you're not going to Juilliard, even if you're not going to a conservatory, even if you're not making a living from it, not giving up and surrounding yourself by the best is powerful. - Yes, honestly, I find that the people who come to me from threads are like so amazing. Like I had no expectation and maybe that helps. But the only time I put out like a thing, well, because I put it out to the universe, you know, like I'm not chasing, I'm attracting. So when I put out the call, send to me the people that need me, the people that can help, the people I can collaborate with, like anyone that is my people send them to me. And like, that's the experience I keep having over and over. And I'm like, yes, like I'm finding my community, you know, like we all are, well, every single person truly is battling the same stuff. And I'm, the more therapy I do with people and the more, whatever, I'm like, oh my God, we really are all like interconnected and whatever. But it does take a certain understanding to get what we're doing. You know, like what the goal is, what the passion is, what the purpose behind all of these things is. Like, you know what I'm saying when I say, I'm creating my own stage, I want to be the sun. You know what I mean? Like, even if those aren't the words that you would put to the action, like you know, just like you just said, you have to be around people doing the things you wanna do. Even if you're not trying to do it at that level, it changes you. It changes your DNA when you get to watch what it looks like when you pursue yourself. You know? - Oh, yeah. - They're just lucky or whatever the case is. Nobody's lucky, man. Everybody's got a story and everybody had to do what they had to do to open their own doors. Like you said, sometimes you do have to turn a no into a yes. Even if the no is only happening like from the universe at that time where it's like, and why am I reaching all these roadblocks here? - I feel so meant to do this. So I'm gonna power through, but you're making me doubt my sincerity. And you know, like when I started the podcast, I told myself from the beginning, we will not apply perfection to this. Perfect is the enemy of good. We're gonna roll with it and learn as we go. And I told my audience that, like, you know, I don't have a single clue of what I'm doing. And I messed up so much. I still do, like it's fine. But I also was like, but I have a voice and it's unique. And I have a gift and I know I'm supposed to do this. Like, I know I'm supposed to, so I'm gonna keep on, but I would be bawling. 'Cause I'm like, I don't understand why, if you're supposed to do this, why it's not easier. Like, why is it the hardest when you're working so hard, you know, but you get that. And we all get that who's in this space. So it is nice to develop more of a community around this stuff because also we do need each other to support each other in this space. Like what, the exact space that we're hitting, you do need each other. You have to lift each other up. There is collaboration. And I think once I started to like really lean into the collaboration portion, that's when like, creativity has really opened up. Because I've spent my whole life doing everything by myself. Some of that was because I was afraid to ask for help, but some of it's because I didn't want anyone else getting credit. I mean, that's the truth because that's the only way I could get love, acceptance and validation, is to be the sun and get that light for a little bit, you know? Like, and actually I wasn't the sun. I was asking other people to shine light on me if I did something worthy enough. You know what I mean? Whereas now like, if I'm not inner child now, and I'm just Melissa in this version, I'm like, I don't need it. I love it, I love the validation. Like, great. Because the validation I get now is like, you're helping me so much. You know, like things like that. Yes, obviously that's what I want, you know? But I'm not surprised either. Like, I knew once I stepped forward into these gifts that like, that was going to be the outcome. But damn, it took a long time to be like, all right, I'm good enough. I'm good enough to go and not be an imposter, you know? But I had to get to this level before I could meet people where they were. Because down in the valley, bro, I wasn't no good for anybody, you know? Yeah, there's also, you mentioned threads, there's a lot of podcasters on Twitter. Oh, really? I don't know if you at all are-- Again, I have an account, I have whatever, I'm trying. I hate, I hate social media. I love it for my consumption. I hate dealing with it for like this, you know what I mean? There's like three groups that I'm in that are like all podcasters supporting each other, which is really cool. And also recently, I've started doing like Twitter spaces, which is kind of just another way, you know? It's like either a Facebook Live, Instagram Live, a LinkedIn Live. It's another way for your audience to connect with you where they can actually connect with you live. And it's unedited, it's less produced. And I really love that too. 'Cause you want to know your audience. Like, you really don't hear from your audience much unless you're asking them questions or unless you have a Facebook group or unless they're your clients. So it's another way for you to invite people to participate with you. Right, and when I was looking over your stuff right before we joined, I saw that. And I was like, God, I see, I keep trying to think of like things that I can do. I want people to feel connected. And truly, I want to feel connected. Like that's my thing is like this. I love being in spaces with other people who are raw and are just doing their best. Like whatever that looks like for them, you know? And just, I love to connect with people on a real level. I just don't do small talk very well. Because I don't care, I could. I used to whenever I was like a chameleon and was like people pleasing the shit out of every interaction and just manipulating. I mean, that's all it is, you know? Let me be perceived in a way that you're finding pleasing and then I can feel good. And you know, and I just don't do that anymore. So I have no tolerance for it at all. Like I'm like, oh my God, I cannot have this conversation. No. - I think that's what like your forties are. - Thank you. - You're like, no more of that. Yeah. - Well girl, I have to be like, y'all, I can't have a boss anymore. Like I have no respect for anyone. - I have a hard time with people in an environment. - I have a hard time with people in an environment. - Yes, really do. - I have this guy that I worked for for like a year and a half. And then he wanted me to sign some new employee handbook without a rages request. Like telling me I can't wear a skirt that when I sit down comes above my knee, I'm like, dude, I am a mom of four. I am not trying to turn you on. And I'm also not signing that, right? Well, regardless of what my intent is with my outfit, you are you boo, go get your shit together. If my skirt's distracting, get your shit together. And also he'd ask me like about what he should wear. And I'm like, ask your wife. - I'm like, that is like not part of my job requirement. - No, he's why I made him put that in the agreement. - Yeah, that was my last buying a fiber. - I can't do it. I just was like, I was like creeping in on my phone conversations and I'm like, okay. Like, why did you give me my own office with a door if you were eavesdropping on all my phone conversations? It was so crazy. - But that's kind of what you get these days. Like, like I just don't, I just can't do it. Like, because if you ask me to do something I don't wanna do, I'm gonna tell you no, like you're gonna see it. - Yeah, well, I just thought to where I'd be like, yeah, I'm not, I don't think I'm gonna do that. Because you know what, like, it's not like I was just being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious. Like, if you ask me to do something that is in direct conflict with a moral or ethic. - Yeah. - Not gonna do it, not gonna do it. Or like, just philosophically speaking. If I am against that action, not doing it. - Oh my gosh, it's so hard. - That when you're an employee, because I did, I got away with it, but that's, you know, 'cause they knew I was quitting. So they were like, what's the point? But I mean, I found myself doing shit. I'm in Jim and I, I like chaos a little bit. That's what I'm used to, you know? And I was so miserable that I found myself doing stuff just to see what they were at. Like wearing really inappropriate clothes to work. Like shorts that like were way too, just shit like that. I mean, I was doing it intentionally because I kind of saw that like I wasn't gonna get in trouble. And I liked, I liked being in their face about it. But I was in a miserable place. So I was just being miserable, you know? So I was like, eh, let's see. And then I did get in trouble one time. So I went a long time without wearing them again. And then at the end of the year, I was like, do you like my shorts? Hello, just wearing them all the time. Oh my God. I was like, am I getting dress coded in my 40s? Like, what is this? Bro, I really did. I was like, well, they went to my fingertips. I thought that was the rule. Like honestly, I'm being serious. Bro, the rule was past your knees. Look at me, who owns a pair of shorts? I got a past your knee. I'm like, good luck finding a pencil skirt that when you sit down doesn't ride up. Right. I saw a pencil skirt, first of all. No, that's too restrictive for my hips. Like, no, you're going to get whatever I want to wear. Okay, that's what you're going to get. But see. It was crazy. I was getting like, I just can't do it. Seven work from home days or eight work from home days, you know, after the pandemic, you went into like re-institute. I'm like, I have four kids. And I could do this entire job on my phone. And if one kid gets sick and all four of them get sick, there's all my work from home days. So that's not going to work. He was trying to only give a certain amount of days. Yes, he even though he said he was going to give me a higher cut of commission. Like, I was at 15%. He was going to give me 25%. And my phone was the only one that was ringing. I would sign these new rules that he didn't make me sign when he hired me. So yeah, no, they're not buying. Yeah, and you can pay my unemployment for six months. Thank you so much. Yeah, no, I totally feel you. But that's why, like, honestly, I'm just, I, like, if I feel this good, like I do talking to you with somebody, then I'm like, how do you want to be my friend? What? Well, I'm actually doing a Twitter space on Friday. And I have started doing, like, some Twitter spaces with other Twitter spaces. So please come check that out, make an economy. You don't have one. It's 9 a.m. Central. It's called podcast industry gatekeepers, because another podcaster, John from Signal James, wanted to talk about how there are, you know, podcasting industry professionals that want to put limitations on how you get into their cool clubs. And he's like, hey, if we're making art and we're doing something collaborative and we're putting something meaningful into the universe, there shouldn't be walls put up against that. Right. So we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about how he podcasts, how he builds an audience. Look, he does it both for hobby or creatively. And he does it in his workplace. Like, he gets me to interview people at his job and put together audio content. And the skills that we are building are definitely, I mean, I encourage my own kids to make a YouTube channel and how to create graphics, to learn how to drop in music, to learn how to edit. These skills today are going to be the norm of putting together presentations in the future. Yes. And I mean, I'm absolutely trying to get my podcast monetized on some level at some point. Like, I don't really know how yet. So I haven't put a focus on that. Just doing this and getting better at this has been my only focus outside of the other things I'm doing. Like, but for the podcast itself, though I know ultimately I want it to be monetized and I want it to be a big part of my income, that can't be the north. You know what I mean? Having these types of conversations and learning more about myself as I do and learning more about other people, I love the confirmation that I get every time where it's like, God, we really are the same, you know? - Oh, yeah, it's like therapy. - Yes, it is, it is. And that's what my clients don't understand when I'm being their therapist. I'm like, you're giving me therapy too. Every single time I walk away from sessions like, Oh, hopefully they feel this good 'cause I sure the hell do, but I mean, they do. I can tell, like they leave with a sigh of relief. And it's like, I'll see you next week, man. You know, but I get to do it all from home. I'm just here doing what I want, you know? And now I'm setting up, I got really restrictive about hours. And when I do have to take a couple evening, like two evenings a week, I offer evening sessions because I know that people need that, you know? But like, I'm not five days a week like initially, I was like, all the money I can get, right? 'Cause I quit my job. So I'm like, yeah, but then I was like, mmm, that's not worth it, actually. Like I didn't wanna like leave one job to start doing like something that makes me miserable, which working till nine o'clock every evening was making me miserable. I only did it for a week. And then I was like, okay, cutting back availability. Like, nope. - Oh, yeah. - More than that. Let's go back to our north, which is impact. - Yes. - And this, we can work out the rest. But like impact keeping myself saying pretty, pretty even. Like gotta, gotta stay right there, you know what I mean? - That is 100% the podcasters who last 100%. Because if you focus on making an impact and your why and being like full of integrity versus chasing the dog, chasing the dollars, chasing the numbers, chasing the downloads, collecting people, honestly, those people don't last. - Well, because it's so easy to reach burnout. 'Cause I was really obsessed with the downloads for a little bit. And just like the last three days as I'm really being introspective, well, I mean, I'm introspective all the time, but you know, I have to stay really centered. So when I was really searching the other day, I was like, you know what? I believe this podcast is gonna do great things. I do believe that, but I'm also okay if the great things that it does doesn't end up making me money from that. It's gonna make me money because I'm already getting more speaking engagements and whatever, but like this is my baby. And it's not going anywhere. You know what I mean? Like I've decided like there's no like give up on this point anymore. It's like flow. I'm just, I'm letting it happen. I'm not, I look at the downloads. Obviously every time I upload an episode, but I'm not fucking talking about it anymore. Like it's just what it is because first of all, technology fails every day. Who knows what the fucking number is actually? Like who knows if that's accurate? Who knows? You know what I mean? Like who knows honestly? But what I do know is when I interviewed those two women the other night, one was like, oh my God, I've been vinging your episodes. And I like feel like I'm talking to a celebrity. And I was like, well, you just made every dream I have come true. So thank you, like I don't give a shit if I'm actually a celebrity or not. I know what she was feeling. That's because she's connected with me so deeply from hearing my conversations. And then there, but there's that disconnect where it's like, well, I know you, but I don't really know you. So that's the feeling that you get is that same feeling as when you're seeing a social media star or whatever. I'm neither of those things, but I am talking a lot. And so, you know, she connected with me. And that's what she was actually saying. I'm like, oh my God, I never imagined that this would feel that good, but it really does. So thank you so much for saying that. You know what I like? She didn't have to say that. She didn't have to be brave enough to tell me that, but I'm like, thank you for being brave enough to tell me that because literally my heart is bursting right now, you know? - That's wonderful, yeah. And you can even take that one step further. You could start like organizing other podcasters in your area. You could search meetups for podcasters. You know, I love going to other meetups. When I moved to Texas and didn't really know too many people here, I decided to go to a couple meetups in town. There's one called Cup of Joey. There was another one called Pod Houston. And I met a couple cool people from each one of these things that I attended. And then I was like, why can't I throw one of these? So I reached out, actually Riverside.fm, who I was using with a couple of my clients. They said that they love sponsoring meetups of other creators. So I was like, hey, you know, I know a good bar that makes good frozen, you know, drinks. I'll reach out to them. So I reached out to the bar. And they said that they would make the first round of drinks, you know, 20% of what the cost was. And then Riverside picked up the bill for the drinks. And I invited people from the three different meetups that I had attended. I got like 35 people to show up and it was perfect. It was amazing. And now I'm like, you can only go on and grow from there. You know, what went well? What could you have improved on? Do you want to use the same venue? Do you want to use the same sponsor? Other sponsors reached out to me because I did it. And they saw my social media presence around it. What photographers can you invite? What videographers are local that are looking for more business? Maybe a realtor in town wants to sponsor it, right? So there's really avenues. - You're smart. - See, this is the type of stuff I'm learning. - Yes, when you have a platform, you can invite whoever you want. And the more people that you talk to with good intentions, the more opportunities will come. And for me, it is an opportunity builder. - Yeah, I agree. Like, this is what I'm learning. Like, I mean, you were absolutely put in my path for a reason because this is the stuff that I'm learning. I get to learn this from other people. 'Cause I'm like, impact. How? You know, like, but I was just telling my husband, I'm gonna have to rush off 'cause I have a client actually. But I was telling my husband, I used to think, I need to go search for the opportunities. But I was like, I'm now just accepting them as I learn about them. But like, I can create from that, but you gave me the opportunity, if that makes sense. Like, 'cause I'm willing to listen and learn from anyone who's doing this, you know? You know, I don't live that far from Houston. - Really awesome. Well, let's put on a meetup. Let me tell you too. I was just at this gas tech event last week and a guy said to me, my entire career, I like to be passive. I put myself in the right opportunities to round myself by the right people, hint to them that I might be available. It's a bit of a game, but he's like, I like it passive. I don't like to chase. And that really stayed with me. I was like, I need a little bit more of that myself. - That's what I'm going for is the flow. Like, hey, but because it is that good intentions. You know what I mean, when you are creating a feeling for people when you are around them, of course you're the person they think of. - Yes. - You know what I mean? - No you're worth. - No you're worth. - Absolutely. - Well, you're my new bestie. So hope you're ready for some stalking. Good, same. Good. Please stalk me. That would make me feel so good. Okay, my poor little clients waiting on me. I appreciate you so much. I would love to have you on again. If you are willing, feel free to even do it live. If you want, we could do an IG live. - Oh my God, I love you. Please, please. Yes, yes, yes. - And I'll send you a link to the thing for Friday. - Okay. I'm going to look at my calendar. - Okay. - All right, have the best terrific Tuesday. - You too. - Thank you. - Bring this into that next client meeting. - Hell yeah. - Bye. - Hell yeah. Bye. (upbeat music) - Hey, hey, hey, what do you say? Listen. First and foremost, please make sure that you have provided this podcast with a five star rating on whichever platform that you are listening. If you want to support the show, please rate, like, and share. Also like, comment, and share on any social media posts that you see for me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. Please follow the podcast Facebook, emotionally unavailable podcast. You can shop my foot online, store, or schedule a one-on-one with me emotionally unavailablepodcast.org. I'm offering what I'm calling non-traditional counseling, astrology readings, and tarot readings. And thank you so much for listening to the emotionally unavailable podcast. (upbeat music) ♪ Be emotionally unavailable ♪ - All right, I hope you liked that with me and Rina, her bio or link will be in the show notes so that if you want to check her out and a link to her podcast will also be in the show notes. So all right, until next time, let's all just keep swimming. 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