Unlock the secrets to mastering leadership skills and empathy as Eric Wages shares invaluable insights from his extraordinary career. Learn how to harness your unique CliftonStrengths and lead effectively with empathy.
Ever wondered how sales skills translate to exceptional leadership? Find out as Eric explains how salesmen can become formidable leaders and what newer leaders lacking sales backgrounds can do to connect better with their teams. How can you understand and utilize your natural traits for effective leadership? Discover the answers to these questions and more in this enlightening episode.
Listen to Eric's inspiring story about coaching a young lady who found her true calling by aligning her futuristic mindset with the right organizational mission. You won't want to miss his advice to his 10-year-old self and how it can guide you on your entrepreneurial journey. Connect with us, invest in yourself, and unlock your potential today!
Episode Summary:
In this insightful episode of "Invest in Yourself: The Digital Entrepreneur Podcast," host Phil Better sit down with Eric Wages, a seasoned professional and leadership coach with over 30 years of experience, including managing a massive data center campus for Google. Eric delves into the transformative power of empathy in leadership, the significance of sales skills in managerial roles, and his personal journey toward helping individuals unlock their full potential.
Timestamps:
- 00:00 - Introduction:
- Phil Better introduces Eric Wages and his extensive background.
- 02:30 - Importance of Personal Interactions:
- Eric talks about reflecting on personal interactions and empathy.
- 10:45 - Sales Skills in Leadership:
- How sales experience can make leaders more effective.
- 18:20 - Developing Leadership Skills:
- Advice for new leaders lacking connectivity.
- 25:00 - Personal Example & CliftonStrengths:
- Eric discusses his strengths and their impact on leadership.
- 35:15 - Defining Success:
- Eric's goal of helping others realize their potential.
- 42:10 - Coaching Example:
- A story of helping a young professional find her role.
- 52:00 - Eric's Advice to His Younger Self:
- Stay true to yourself and manage challenges proactively.
- 60:00 - Closing Remarks:
- How to connect with Eric Wage.
Guest Bio:
Eric Wages is a distinguished leadership coach and entrepreneur with over three decades of experience spanning entrepreneurship, small business consulting, and senior roles in the US government. Eric managed one of Google's largest data center campuses, where he learned invaluable lessons in leadership, connectivity, and self-awareness. Currently, Eric focuses on helping leaders and individuals unlock their potential and achieve remarkable success.
Key Takeaways:
- Empathy as a Leadership Tool:
- Empathy is rare but can be cultivated through careful listening and reflection.
- Importance of Sales Skills in Leadership:
- Effective leadership often involves leveraging sales skills to support and connect with teams.
- Personal Development:
- Understanding and wisely using your natural traits, as identified by tools like CliftonStrengths, is crucial for leadership.
- Defining Success:
- Success is about helping others realize and achieve their potential.
- Overcoming Challenges:
- Staying true to oneself and being adaptable are key to overcoming adversity and maintaining vision.
Call to Action:
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Connect with Eric Wages:
Website: http://www.idealem.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/idealem.solutions/
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Find Us Online:
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Credits:
**Host: Phil Better**
- Instagram: [@PodcastMogul]
- LinkedIn: [Phil Better]
- Website: [https://www.Philbetterinc.com]
**Executive Producer: Phil Better**
- Instagram: [@PodcastMogul]
- Website: [https://www.Philbetterinc.com]
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About Us:
Embark on a transformative journey with "Invest In Yourself: The Digital Entrepreneur Podcast," an illustrious and award-winning series tailored for dreamers trapped in the corporate grind. Hosted by the dynamic Podcast Mogul Phil Better, this podcast serves as a guiding light for ambitious millennials yearning to break free from the corporate shackles and rediscover the liberating dreams of their childhood.
Phil Better engages in insightful conversations with Digital Entrepreneurs hailing from diverse corners of the globe and various industries. Tune in as they unravel the secrets of successful entrepreneurship and delve into the art of self-investment. Uncover the essential skills, mindset shifts, and strategies to forge your path to financial freedom and fulfillment.
If you're a 30-year-old visionary seeking an escape from the corporate maze, longing for the tranquil life promised in your youth, this podcast is your compass. Join us as we explore the untapped possibilities at your fingertips, and let the stories of thriving entrepreneurs inspire you to carve out your destiny. It's time to break free, invest in yourself, and turn those childhood dreams into a reality. Welcome to a world where your aspirations take center stage.
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(upbeat music) - Welcome to "Investin' Yourself" the digital entrepreneur podcast. Join the podcast burger Phil Better as he introduce success for entrepreneur that make their living in the digital world. Now, let's join your host Phil Better and your special guest. Today on "Investin' Yourself" the digital entrepreneur podcast. - Welcome back to another episode of "Investin' Yourself" the digital entrepreneur podcast. I am of course your host with the most Phil Better and I'm excited to have our guest today because they are extensively experienced, dynamic approach to leadership and nothing short of extraordinary. Our guest today is a seasoned professional with over 30 years of a diverse experience ranging from entrepreneurship and small businesses to significant roles within the US government and running a massive data center, campus for Google. His journey through various scales of operation showcases versatility and deep understanding of different organizational dynamics. In his current role he has dedicated himself to helping leaders and individual unlock their potential and discover their superhero-like abilities. He empowers them to achieve incredible daily outcomes turning everyday tasks into opportunities for significant achievements. Today he's gonna share his insights on leadership, the power of self discovery and how to harness your unique abilities to create impactful results. Whether you're a budding entrepreneur, a leader in a large organization or someone looking to maximize your personal and professional potential, our guest expertise and strategies are bound to provide valuable lessons. So get ready and be here for the amazing founder of ISG, Eric Wage. Eric, thank you so much for being here. - Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you very much. And by the way, you flatter me very much with that introduction. That's quite kind. - It's my goal to make my guests feel like they have to give 120% 'cause I gave them such a great intro but Eric, I'm really excited. We had a great conversation before we jumped on the podcast. So I'm excited just to start in with it. So we're gonna do the first question. Why? Why did you become an entrepreneur? What made you spark to go around this crazy road and lifestyle that we live? - Sure. I mean, as the intro has said, right? I've kind of done everything. I've done all different scales in my career and I've always been someone who's been in someone else's kind of career orbit. And I realized that what I really wanted in life after having done all that other kind of stuff is helping people one-on-one become incredibly successful. And that's very difficult to do unless you're your own entrepreneur, right? It's very difficult to go do that as part of a larger consultancy like an instant younger anyone else, right? You don't have someone that does that level of hands-on effort. So for me to go take on this scope, it's only makes sense to do it as an entrepreneur. - I love it, I love it. And of course, you're coming from somewhere where you were surrounded by like hugely successful entrepreneurs, you know, like maybe the founders of Google. You were kind of, you know, hobnobbing it with them. When you were in these positions working for these major corporations and major businesses and entrepreneurial ventures, did you have that spark when you saw or met with the leaders that you're like, oh, I see something of myself in them, maybe I deserve to be an entrepreneur? - You know, it's really interesting because Google's a place where every single person is absolutely incredible. And we have a conversation all the time internally about imposter syndrome. Like, do I deserve to be here? Am I good enough to be here? And so I'm gonna find out that I'm actually not that great. And there's always a little bit of self-doubt, right? As an entrepreneur, right? Can I pull off what I'm trying to accomplish? And the thing that Google allowed me to do was to really spread my wings and really not take no for an answer. You know, there are numbers of times in my career where the right thing to do was the difficult thing that involves sitting down and having one-on-ones with, at the time, the most tenured person in the company. Like Larry and Sergey had already left the company and literally the person who was their mentor in college, their college professor was still an employee, Erz Holesley. I had many, many conversations with Erz one-on-one about trying to steer various outcomes in the data centers. And when I spoke to people at Google, they were terrified that I was doing this. They're like, what do you mean you're talking to Erz 'cause Erz is like this person that's on this pedestal. I'm like, he's just another guy, right? He has his own vision, he has his own needs, his own incentives and you just need to figure out how to connect with those people. So like, that's really the magic, is learning how someone functions. And in order to do that, you have to be an expert in yourself. So how do I function before I know how do I present myself? How do I connect with other people? So like I say, you have to be an expert in yourself in order to be an expert with others. - Very true. How long did it take you to become an expert in yourself? Obviously, it's a lifelong journey. Why we'll save that quote for other people. But when did you start realizing you needed to double down and go in on learning more about yourself? - It was probably about five years ago. 'Cause I had done the Google career, right? As I was always chasing like, okay, I've built the data center, I've built the largest whatever. And I started tackling things that were much more interesting and made me feel good selfishly. Like I wanted to go do good things for other people through the power that I had collected, the political power, the social power, everything else, right? The willingness to go do things. And I learned really quickly that not everyone is programmed the same way. I hit a lot of roadblocks. I heard a lot of no's. And you can't give up when you hear no, you have to figure out, okay, what makes someone say yes? And so that journey, for me, it's very easy to learn how I say yes, right? I'm someone who wants to help everyone. So I have a horrible time saying no. And, but I learned that other people are really good at saying no. So like, what's their own incentive to say yes? What's in it for them to say yes, to put their weight behind something that you're seeking? In order for me to be successful, asking for billions of dollars to go do construction, I had to be really good about how did I function? And once I learned how I functioned internally, that became a lens for me to figure out, okay, now that I know how I function, how do I think this other person functions? And how do those two things gel together nicely? Or are they in conflict with one another? 'Cause there are lots of different personality styles. - Very true. And this understanding of who you are, how, what makes you run that you've been doing over the last five years, do you feel that your leadership role for, you know, building one of the bigger data centers for Google and managing that? 'Cause that just seems insane, first of all. Personally, I'm picturing the scene from Mission Impossible where Tom Cruise is swim, he tried to swim. And you're just managing this giant thing. You're like, oh, no, someone's in the turbine. That's what I think, obviously very far from that. But I'm gonna allow myself to have that imagery. - Sure. (laughs) - The leadership that you had in that, and the skills that you learned through the leadership, did you see those being a great foundation for you to be that self-reflective person and see how you deal with those like problems and how you can, instead of not gelling anymore, gelling with those people and that you were facing? - Yeah, so any form of personal growth and development requires some willingness to accept that you are imperfect. We are all imperfect vessels. But that analysis in order to grow effectively is a daily exercise, is what I did today better than what I did yesterday. What mistakes did I make today that I could have done differently? And when you are a leader in a large corporation, you tend to not think about that because you're like, well, I have made it this far, my life being successful, I am always right. And the higher up you get, the less chance that someone's going to tell you that you've done something wrong, unless it's a catastrophic mistake. That doesn't mean you are not rubbing people the wrong way. That doesn't mean you're connecting with everyone well. So I realized that in order for me to grow and connect more with people, I had to really look at myself every single day. Is how I had every personal interaction ideal, was I dismissive, did I actually listen well? A good example, one thing I know about myself, right? If I look at something like the CliftonStrengths, and you look at all these different traits that someone has, empathy is one that shows up on the list. Empathy is being defined as being able to put yourself in someone's shoes. Mathematically, if you look at the population of people who have taken CliftonStrengths, the number of people have empathy as a core strength is incredibly low. That doesn't mean people can't be empathetic. It just means they're not naturally, they don't naturally have empathy. So if you're trying to explain to someone how to see your vision, you have to expect that someone probably is not empathetic naturally. So you have to learn how to program them. If I look at this as a computer analogy, I program them to see the different perspective I bring to them. And that understanding requires a little bit of guessing, a little bit of listening very carefully, and then trying to experiment with how you work with someone, because at the end of the day, your goal is to get your vision across. I like to say, people who are salesmen are actually really good leaders. The problem is, is they don't take those lessons that they learn how to connect with people to actually be managers, and support their teams. They're really good at like, I connect with someone to get my sale done. And they don't realize that that skill is actually the same skill of being a great leader. - I love that. I love how, 'cause it's true, some of the great salesmen make amazing, fantastic leaders, 'cause they have that connectivity. Let's look at maybe someone who doesn't have a sales background, and then moving into that leadership role. And that connectivity is somewhat hard, because they've unfortunately were under, not the best type of manager, or more on the domineering type of manager, micro-managing light, if you will. What methods or what actions can they take? 'Cause they realize they're a poor leader. They're not a poor leader, but they're an underdeveloped leader. We'll go with that. What can they do, what actions can they take to start building up to become a better version of the leader they wanna be? - Great, great question. And there's a whole litany of things that we can do in that situation, but I'll give you one that's right off the bat is an easy one. You said that this person already, I'll say, lived through a bad manager experience, right? So some of the best lessons I've learned in life are from some of the worst managers, right? These are things that I have experienced where I'm like, "I am never going to do that to another person. "I'm not gonna put someone's life at risk. "I'm not gonna put someone's respect at risk." These are traits where once you go through these, you're like, "Oh, God." You get beat down. So you already have this laundry list of behaviors that you don't like, and those are things that you probably don't wanna do. The second thing is you need to know who you are naturally in order to figure out this combination of tools in the toolbox of how do you apply these to different situations. So me, for example, again, using the CliftonStrengths, one of my core traits is restorative, and what that means is I like to fix things. I'm working on my house, I work on cars, and I work on people. So it's a problem to be fixed. I also have this connected this trait, which is I can see how people work well together, and I can pair people to get good outcomes. All these strengths, though, have a negative side when they're overused. And so my restorative trait when overused is sometimes I try to fix problems when there's nothing that needs to be fixed. And if you're dealing with a people issue, that becomes a pretty kind of grading issue. That also means I'm a perfectionist sometimes on trying to fix things, right? What's the exact way to fix something? In the connectedness is you just try to see all these things that might not actually be there, and you kind of hallucinate almost of these possibilities of how people work together. So once you know how you function naturally, you figure out how to use those tools to engage with people differently. So if you have someone who desperately needs to be heard and listened to, again, this empathy skill, I do not have empathy as a natural trait, but I'm an engineer, I love process. I have learned in my life to become empathetic by asking a series of questions that allow me to program myself to be in that moment. So that is how I apply the various tools together to make another tool. And as a manager and as a leader, you have to learn how to use all the tools in the toolbox. - I love that, I love that. And it's a great lesson for us who are slowly becoming the leaders that we need to be in not only our lives, but in the companies we want, we're looking to build. This is a great lesson at the beginning of our life. I mean, it's just because you have had such a very career so far and your entrepreneurial journey, and you know, like some big things, data center at Google, like running that, that's pretty huge. - So on a career wise, you kind of hit some major, probably major accomplishments. I'm wondering on the flip side, on the more personal side, are there accomplishments that you want to hit within like the next 10 years that are possibly a more focused orientation for you since you've moved from, you know, reaching career high? Now let's go look at the personal side or the developmental side of yourself. - Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question, you know, said in other ways, how do I define success now, right? - Yeah. - Is, you know, for me, success now is helping people realize their incredible outcomes that they might not be able to realize with their own knowledge of who they are and how they work with other people. Let's call this human strategy for lack of a better word, is like, how do I actually plan to work? So for me, helping people achieve these incredible opportunities and outcomes that I was blessed with at Google is my goal now, right? So if I hear about an individual who's struggling at work as an individual, I actually coached this young lady who was working at this particular firm where she was not hurt at all. Like, no matter what issue she raised, she was dismissed regularly. She had a very futuristic mindset so she could see where something needed to go. And she was very upset that she couldn't convince people to kind of get there quickly. And through these series of conversations, we basically uncovered that the company that she was in was never going to change. Actually, their mission was to do research. It was not to necessarily get the outcome. It was to literally execute the process of research. And so once we came to this epiphany, I'm like, okay, you cannot change the company. Are you going to change yourself? And that's really hard to do. And so I said, if you can't figure out how to bury this trait of yours every single day and swallow your pride, let's call it that way, then you have to make a change. And she actually ended up quitting and moving 'cause she just realized that there is no end to her frustration. No change of leadership was going to make that happen. No change in herself was really going to make that happen 'cause this core treat of her is of seeing the future and trying to go help the outcomes of the research. Frustrated her that people weren't willing to kind of get there quickly. And so she took a job elsewhere in the country to go execute research that did end up coming into products very quickly. - I love that story. And also kind of preambles a question I had if you had something to share with us. - So that's true. - You killed two questions with one stone. I love that. Obviously that's why you're an amazing leader and you're teaching this leadership. You can see things ahead of schedule. With, 'cause we're looking at the show being investing in yourself. And that's something that's really, really important. I'm wondering what is it that it's a two for one question here 'cause you still want to my question. I'm sorry. - It's fine. I love it. What is it that you do to improve yourself to invest in yourself, maybe on a daily aspect? And what is it that something our audience can do to start implementing that can help them better themselves as a leader, that they can invest in themselves as a leader's? - Great question. So here's the truth as an entrepreneur, right? You don't have anyone telling you did you do a good job or not, right? At the end of the day, usually did I do a good job or not is the bank account going down less quickly or is it growing, am I losing ground versus making ground but that timeframe is very long. And so one thing that I do every single day as part of my own development is I'm a subscriber to the system called the Genius Spark. I've worked with a gentleman named Rex Miller. I'm one of the consultants in his inner circle that teach this and it's pretty fundamental. It's if you know who you are, it's your absolute best using these core characteristics that you yourself have identified, right? Hey, I'm good at this. This is how I function naturally. If you read that every single day in the morning and says, okay, this is how I'm going to be a superhero today and you go about your day. So, and then that little reading exercise for me on my phone, it's a message on my phone that pops up at 8 a.m. I literally just read it and say, okay, this is how I'm going to be an awesome person today. Then I go about my day. At 9 p.m., I have a pop up on my phone that describes those same strengths as the negatives, right? Those are the pulled muscles mindset. And I say, did any of those traits show up? And if the answer is yes, okay, well, tomorrow's a new day. I'm going to make sure I consider that I made that mistake if I have a similar situation today. It's uncanny that we're talking about this during the Olympics and I just saw Michael Phelps on TV, you know, applauding the American gymnastics team. This kind of mental programming is exactly what Michael Phelps does. He visualizes the path forward, every race that he had, every stroke that he had, how I was going to be excellent. And that way when he went and did it, it wasn't really a thought process, it was very much planned. So if you know how you're excellent and you know how you struggle sometimes, having those two things as those little weights are the only way to calibrate every single day, you know, your own little daily job performance review. Am I doing a good job? Whether it's a job, whether you're a father, a mother, you know, someone in a church, you know, whatever your own system is of values, that's the only way to know, am I doing a good job or not? And that's heavy. I love it because it speaks to something, as an entrepreneur, like you said, we don't have people telling us we can have our mentors that are there that can tell us, hey, yeah, you look like you're doing a job, but there's nothing internal that can say, that can guide us in that. That helps us become a better leader. Where did you discover this? Like, I'm curious, 'cause this is like super power, Superman's Kryptonite, if you will, except it's, I guess, the gold Kryptonite. I don't know. It's the world. The one that makes them really good. When did you discover this type of method? Yeah, I'd say the packaging of this, right, is when I first met Rex, I was going on four years ago, right? I'd always known that, like, my own calibration system was different than my leadership, right? I walked around Google for years with a target on my back. Apparently, one of my managers told me after I changed jobs, he's like, yeah, one of our previous directors had it out for you. I'm like, okay, well, clearly I made it longer than they did because they were dismissed from the company. And so, I always knew I kind of had a different beat to a drum, right? But I was really never able to categorize it in this system. I had one lesson that taught me as a manager that elements of this were showing up. I had this one young lady, her name is Colleen. Colleen, if you watch this, I tell the story all the time, you're gonna be embarrassed. Colleen came to me when I was in my office one day and she was responsible for basically putting down this colored tape it's this organizational system called 5S. And she's like, what color tape should I put down for this new area? And I went into this 20 minute long discussion about the considerations of all the different vendors that are working there, the different colored tapes we already have, how portable is this color, is it red, green, if you have color vision problems, is that a problem? Yeah, so I went into this huge discussion. And at the end, it has stopped talking. And she's like, I'm like, did I answer your question? She goes, no, I just wanted you to tell me what color tape should I put down? So I learned pretty early on that if someone asks me what I think is a teachable question, some people don't wanna be taught, they just want an answer. And so if I'm approached with these questions, 'cause I tend to talk too much and explain too much. So if I'm approached with these simple questions, I have to ask myself, and sometimes them verbally, it's like, do you just want a simple answer or do you want to have a thoughtful discussion? And that has saved me so many times over the years because of that one lesson where I just like rambled for 20 minutes. All right, I'm stealing that, I love that. Not the whole story, but the question. 'Cause I have a problem too of just rambling off because I'm guessing it's a trauma response from not being able to tell, explain myself when I give an answer. Yeah, that's a problem with some of these traits, right? Is knowing when to stop, in reading the other person, like, and asking, you're afraid to ask, like, have I explained it enough? 'Cause that is a, sometimes a difficult conversation. So just, have I explained this enough, Phil? You've adequately and probably far superiorly explained this than I could ever have imagined. So I thank you very much for that. I appreciate that amazing answer, 'cause it also solves a problem for me, 'cause I can ask that question too when I get asked. Do you just need an answer, or do you wanna have a philosophical debate here, or discussion, and it's also a lot. I think being more clear with our questions and answers will solve a lot of headaches, I find. What is it that you want to be remembered by at the end of the day? Oh, goodness. You know, if I look at, like, a career, I feel like I've already done the most notable thing in my career. I've built data centers that helped billions of people at a time of Google's astronomical growth, and I was the guy that did it for a very large portion of the company. So, like, mathematically, I'm pretty sure helping billions of people in one role is pretty good. Yeah. And, like, those kinds of roles, though, are very behind the scenes, right? Remember me, who's not gonna show up on a plaque, or anything like that? I would like to be remembered as the Wizard of Oz, right? The guy behind the curtain helping all these people achieve their excellent outcomes by giving them the right teachings. Like, I don't need to be the guy that's getting the accolades on stage. I'd much rather be helping the person who is scared of going on stage to overcome their stage fright, and achieve the thing that they always had the capability to do what they didn't have the confidence to do, or didn't know how to approach an issue. I like to be the person that enables that. That's how I want to be remembered. Well, I love that. I love that. And speaking of remember, we're gonna jump back in your memory to when you were 10 years old. Have your 10-year-old version here. Eric, he's a fantastic person. Has a nice head of Eric. Gotta say that. But I would love to know, what is one piece of advice that you would love to just hand back to your 10-year-old self? Oh, goodness. 10 years old was a very interesting time for me. That's a whole 'nother conversation. I would say, you know, being true to yourself as tight as that sounds, right? If you feel right about something, especially as an entrepreneur, if you feel right about something, it's yours to tackle. And you're gonna have a lot of people telling you no. But if your compass is still saying that this is the right thing to go do, you know, adversity is the name of the game, right? So if something was easy, everyone would be doing it, right? And sometimes the most difficult things in life are the most challenging, at least certainly the most rewarding. And so overcoming those, those little small incremental steps to achieving those incredible outcomes, that's hard every single day. So having that vision and staying true to it is important, but being willing to evaluate, again, on this daily basis, is that vision still the right thing? 'Cause there's one thing of being arrogant and just be like, I'm just doing this because I set up going to do it versus, okay, something has changed. This now no longer makes sense. I need to do something else. Being willing to change, being willing to say I'm wrong, but still being passionate about the one vision you've got. That's great, my God. - Sir, you're just reading back on this episode is going to be fantastic for me. Actually, I think there's going to be more, I'm going to get more out of it than my audience, but I'm pretty sure an audience member is going to say, no, I got more out of it. Eric is an amazing person, which is true. You've been amazing guest and it's fantastic to have you. I'm going to jump off stage here. So I want you to let my audience know where they can connect with you. If they're looking for help to get to that level of leadership that they deserve to be at and they're required to be, how can they do that? Sir, the floor is yours. - Yeah, thank you. Probably the best way to get in contact with me is via LinkedIn, right? That's the feature of business nowadays. So Eric.Wages is how you find me. I talk about all sorts of things on my page, data centers, leadership, guidance. I don't talk about home construction yet. I feel like I should some days, but hey, reach out. Let me know what challenges you're facing. And I'll call on this guarantee. I can give you some feedback on how you can improve. - I love that. Eric, I've had a fantastic time chatting with you. I'm glad that we've connected because it's, I know this is going to pay dividends in the forward and having you on this episode on the podcast has been a fantastic treat. - It's been great. No, I really appreciate it. And I look forward to all the great comments. Excellent to my audience. Of course, you know the chin dig, all the notes and all the connections will be in the show notes down below. Make sure you connect with Eric 'cause he is worth the time to connect and reach some of his stuff on LinkedIn. I thank you very much for listening. And as always, remember to invest in yourself. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
