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ICYMI, co-hosts Jared Yates Sexton and Nick Hauselman hosted a live show immediately after the debate to offer up their analysis. While Tim Walz started out nervous, he seemed to regain some footing as JD Vance has mastered the art of nonchalant lying.
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--Hey everybody, welcome to the Muckering Podcast exclusive post-debate analysis show. We have just watched the one and only vice presidential debate between Governor Tim Waltz and Senator J.D. Vance. Nick, there's a lot to talk about here. We're going to go over all of it, but I would go so far as to say every aspect of tonight's debate was absolutely abysmal. I was really curious to hear what you thought about it overall, and then we'll get into some individual stuff. I think I took more notes on this one that I have ever on any debate. Yeah, that's amazing, right? I have a running -- I mean, I can't stop scrolling to see the beginning and the end of what I was taking notes on, so I think we're on the same page there. I did peek at Twitter a little bit because I was kind of curious what was going on and how that was already going to get the pre-spun. And I got to tell you, over preparedness is a sickness, I suppose. I'm a Democratic side, and let's just start off. Waltz was nervous. Well, Kelly, into getting everyone anxiety. Well, so Waltz, we did the preview show for today's episode, and I went and I watched every debate that Waltz has available, and I went and I watched every debate that J.D. Vance has available. And let me tell you something, Nick. Tim Waltz is not a quick starter in debates. He takes a long time to get going. This first segment of this debate was piss poor for him. He was not ready for it. He wasn't ready to go. When they came back from commercial, a lot stronger actually showed up in a lot of different ways. But I have to tell you, and listen, Nick, this makes me physically ill to say here. The strategy that Waltz had going into this debate, and the Harris campaign, having gone into this debate, terrible strategy. The strategy that J.D. Vance and the Trump campaign going into this debate was absolutely incredible. And I hate to say that. You know, and the people listening to this know, that I think that J.D. Vance is one of the most disgusting human beings on the face of beer. He is one of the most extreme politicians in the United States of America. They decided to cast him as a moderate tonight. He played that role. And guess what? Tim Waltz went along with that role. He was game. He was like an improv scene partner. And the two of them should have been hugging by the middle of this debate. It was really, really a poor, poor performance all the way around. And yeah, we're getting all of it. But I was so pissed off watching J.D. Vance try and pull the fleece of the American public tonight. I'm going to drop something here that's going to end up. I'm curious if your response. If J.D. Vance was the presidential candidate and not Trump, he probably wins this thing. Well, okay, okay, okay, let's pump the brakes. I understand what you're saying, like in terms of his performance tonight. Let's also point out the fact that J.D. Vance has no idea how to talk to human beings. And we think it's not on a debate stage. He is again, one of the most extreme politicians in the country. But what you're saying right now, in terms of what he projected on to national TV, theoretically, the last major appearance that any of these members of the tickets will make, you're exactly right. If the J.D. Vance who showed up tonight and performed tonight was a major candidate and projected that throughout politics, that would be something different. The unfortunate truth is this isn't who he is. He happens to be a chronic liar. And he was able to lie basically through one night. Yeah, but it's been proven that chronic lying has no impact on the GOP. They don't give a shit about that. So they also, I mean, independent of like ordering doughnuts or whatever aside that whole stuff side, like all the other things you said about women and the crazy cat lady, that wouldn't really matter. I don't think that that I think that Trump is that that at a candidate that he's depressing his own numbers where someone like Vance comes in. And I know it's a little bit recent. He biologically just won't watch them in a debate like this, but that that grit that grit me halfway through where I'm like, shit, this is the guy that can win the win this race easily over someone like Trump was just that bad candidate. I think that is a little bit of a recency bias because let's not forget that J.D. Vance has failed in every single regard as the BP nominee. But I will tell you this, watching his debates, he's a good debater. He's a very, very good debater. And that was something I made notes. I made a scouting report getting ready for tonight's debate. And you know what he does? He lures people in. This was the whole me and Tim agree on this. And we're actually on on the same page here. And he lures you in. And when he's ready, he slips the knife in between your ribs. That's what he does. I texted you earlier today as I was watching some of this. I said he's an excellent redirector, which is one of the best things you can do on a national and televised debate. He didn't answer anything tonight. He didn't answer a single damn question tonight. And by the way, I don't know that I would abs, I don't know that I would blame anybody for not answering a question because CBS tonight embarrassed itself. And remember last time I said, I can't believe I'm saying this ABC news deserves credit. CBS news failed in every regard tonight. And JD Vance just absolutely walked all over everything didn't answer anything. And going back to what you're saying, he showed that he does have some talent. He does he does have an ability, especially when it comes to debating, which is something that came through tonight. And it was a clash of styles that did not work out for Tim Walz. I agree. I mean, it was a big man for the longest time where I felt like nobody really won this debate. And then I think I think the left was so desperate to to find something to cheer about, I suppose, at the very end, when we get to the January six stuff, I don't even think any of the president, the way that walls or rated the way he was he never like looked at JD Vance. He was getting kind of worked up and that Vance is much more unclappable and cool. I think everything about how Vance did this debate was was poorly done, honestly. I mean, I guess I didn't go back and watch his other debates, but I mean, the moment seemed to overcome him. And up until the very even at the very end, again, that damning answer was sort of everything was speaking way too fast. He didn't let things hit. He didn't direct it towards him way too much agreeing. Like you said, like they were about to be hugging across and you know, wait, I think it benefits Vance to be agreeable than it does for walls. And then, you know, if he says, did he take a page out of Joe Biden's oration by just saying a look every other sentence, he kept saying look, I was expecting to him to say, look, folks, he didn't, you know, it was really, I was frustrated. I got to tell you, I thought walls did a pretty bad job overall and just couldn't slow down, couldn't get himself settled even after the break and needed like a slap in the face and a drink of water or something. Well, so one of the things that I noted when I was watching Waltz's past debates is that he didn't seem like he woke up in the debates until he got slapped in the face. There was a moment where the his opponent would say something critical about him and suddenly he was like, no, listen, now we're now we're on, we're ready to go. It was almost like he was being charmed by Vance the entire night. And like, I don't know how you felt about it when when Waltz came out at first, his first answer was terrible. His his initial answer was absolutely terrible. And then there was a moment where he sort of like, I think he got his bearings a little bit, but he never got moving. The problem here, I think is a clash of styles. Waltz's entire thing and we've talked about this, this is one of the reasons why he was chosen as the VP candidate is because he's an affable Midwestern guy, right? He's just there to talk to normal people. And by the way, his mastery of the subjects was dead on. He knew what he was talking about. But what we're discussing, and I want to remind people of this very, very early on before we discuss this debate, debates aren't actually debates. They're not actually who has the best mastery over a subject or performances, right? Who is doing the best on television? And on top of that, we talk about this all the time. Who is going to determine how the media is going to talk about the race after the debate? JD Vance did that tonight. He lied the entire time. I mean, we'll get to the Affordable Care Act question. I have never seen a person lie so unabashedly before. But what happened was that Waltz did not prosecute Vance. And guess what? CBS News didn't either. They were not interested in talking about JD Vance's actual record, his actual beliefs, the things that he has said. And Tim Waltz wasn't interested in it either. He wanted to be affable. He wanted to talk about his agenda with Kamala Harris. It did not win the spectacle of what a debate is. Oh, I agree. In the healthcare section, I just wrote WUT after every line. Like, because everything he said was a lie. And again, it probably would have been effective for him to look over and said, are you going to fact check this? Because if you're not, then I'm going to. And he kind of half did it, but in way too fast of a way on one of those sections. And he even got fickle-ness wrong in the very beginning. And he tried to say, I mean, it was so like what I'm doing right now, he could not keep his lot straight at all in the first answer. And okay, if you want to grade him based on how he started and how he ended up later, fine, he got a little bit better. But again, he didn't engage Vance on a lot of the different lies that he really could have hit him with. I mean, I wrote he could have hit him, could have hit him, could have hit him so many times in his notes. And we'll have to get into each individual one and talk about it. I will tell you, if you put Tim Walts tonight against any generic VP rival, like let's say that you you claw game JD Vance out tonight and you put in Mike Pence, he would have beat Mike Pence all night long exactly how he did it. If I were to give a grade in a vacuum to what Walts did tonight, I would give him a beat, right? Like, I mean, he had a mastery of the subject. He promoted himself as who he is. The problem is that he came up against somebody who was a complete clash of styles. And the only way to beat JD Vance is to paint him as a radical because he is a radical. That's the only way to actually beat JD Vance. And Walts never got near that, save for the January 6th section. And it wasn't against JD Vance. He had no idea whatsoever of actually prosecuting JD Vance as a radical. And that's what you have to do. You have to say this man is not a moderate. We don't actually agree on these things. What you actually need to do is say that this person is not just outside the mainstream. He's a literal neo fascist. And well, as a matter of fact, Nick, while we're talking about this, you know what just occurred to me? Do you know what's weird thinking about it now? He didn't say the word weird. Yeah, not even once his main attack line of the Republican Party. He didn't even say weird once. He barely got Project 2025 in in the second segment. He didn't even get into what Donald Trump has done as a person and what he said. The problem here is that he just showed up as the affable guy who's like, ah, here I am to talk about some subjects. And JD Vance just kept zipping around him and using that to his advantage. It was actually very, very strange to watch this play out. It was weird. You've been listening to the free part of this episode. If you'd like to hear the rest of this great conversation, head over to patreon.com/muckrakepodcast and subscribe for lots more additional content, including a Discord server and live shows. We'd really appreciate it if you could give it a try. We know you'll love it and come back for more.
