Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 654
(upbeat music) - Hello, everyone. Welcome back into a fantastic new whisper in the wings from Sage Whisperer. We continue to dole out our five-timers' robes with our guests today. We're so excited to have our guests back. And with this show that we absolutely love, it was a creator's pick back when it ran at 1590, 59 theaters, and it's coming back again this time at a new space here in New York. Of course, I'm speaking about the phenomenal playwright and co-composer, Donald Steven Olson, who's joining us today to talk about his work, The Christine Jorgensen Show. It's playing October 10th through November 17th at here, and you can get your tickets and more information by visiting ChristineJorgensenShow.com. We have had the distinct honor of covering the show for the last couple of years. If you are not familiar with the show, it is phenomenal. It's a brilliant snapshot of history about an iconic person that truly not many people know about, but they should. So I'm doing a terrible job of explaining this show. We need to bring on the expert on it. So please join me in welcoming back the incredible Donald Steven Olson. Donald, it's so good to see you. Welcome back to Whisper and the Wings, from Stay to Whisper. - Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here again. And let me tell all of your listeners, Jorgensen is with two he's, it's the Danish spelling. So there's no old Jorgensen, it's E and E, Jorgensen. - Yeah, yes, and what a brilliant person to be talking about today. I mean, I'm so, so, so lucky that I got to see the show. Back at 59, 59 theaters, 'cause it's so good. What a wonderful story being told. And the depictions of these brilliant artists are wonderful. And now it's being remounted for an extended run at here, which is so exciting. Let us start though the beginning though. For anyone out there who doesn't know, not only about who Kristin Jorgensen is, but about your show. Can you tell us a little bit about what it's all about? - I can, I'll try not to be long-winded, but this show has been a part of my life for so long. And three years now that, it's hard for me not to wax, or a rhapsodic about it all, all the time. Kristin Jorgensen is considered the world's first internationally known transgender celebrity. She pioneered the idea of gender reassignment. She wasn't the first, but she was the first one who became very well known. Back in the early 1950s in Denmark, she was born in the Bronx in Throgsneck. She did her research at a time when there was no research to be researched. And she discovered that there was some work being done in Sweden, she thought it turned out to be Denmark, on hormones and hormone replacement therapy. And she, when she was in her early 20s, took a boat with hardly any money, sailed to Denmark where her ancestral family was, and she still had family. And almost by coincidence, if there are, if there is such a thing, met a very brilliant doctor named Dr. Richard Hembert, who was indeed doing this kind of research. Kristin made an appointment with him. She basically asked if she could be like his first subject. If he would help her go through this transition process, and he agreed. So Kristin went through this process in Copenhagen in the early 1950s. The story got out and we can talk endlessly about how it got out and who pressed it onto the press. But Kristin sold her light story to the first newspapers. And in a six-part magazine installing. And when she came back to her home country, the US, New York, in 1952, late 1952, she literally became the most famous person in the world. She was met by hordes of reporters and curiosity seekers. And there's a news reel that people can actually see of Kristin Jorgensen arriving back in New York. It's fascinating. So at any rate, Kristin Jorgensen was suddenly inundated by media requests, people wanting stories. Every move was scrutinized, she had no privacy left whatsoever. And Kristin had been a fairly private, shy person before all this. So she had to wade through, maneuver her way, navigate her way through this new world of intense media scrutiny. And that was all fine and dandy. She did it with grace and dignity and humor and intelligence. But she also had to work. And she had no real talents. I mean, she had worked at putting together news reels at one point. But she met a theatrical agent, Charlie Yates, who said, "You know, you need to capitalize on your name. "You're the most famous person in the world." And the best way to do that is by creating a nightclub act. Put yourself out on stage, terrified her. But she met through Charlie, a former vaudillion named Miles Bell. So these are the two characters in the show, Kristin Jorgensen and Miles Bell. She met Miles Bell in 1953. And they worked together to create a nightclub act, which opened in late 1953. And the show is about the two of them, their relationship that develops between the two of them. And you can't imagine two more different human beings during the course of creating this show, rehearsing this show, and then performing this show. So the first part of the show is the actual rehearsal room where they're putting it all together and getting to know one another. Sometimes hating one another, sometimes loving one another. And then the last part of the show is the actual nightclub act itself at the Copa nightclub in Pittsburgh. And so scattered throughout there is music. I call this a play with music. I'd love to call it a musical, but I'm told I have to call it a play with music. And then, so I wrote all the songs for the club act, and then some of the songs for the rehearsal process. There are a couple of other old standards that are in public domain. And so the show is basically meant to be a joyous and moving experience. It's uplifting. I'm so over dark and cynical. I just, there's nothing in me that wants to go to that place anymore. We all know what the problems in the world are. People want to be entertained and they want to take something away with the entertainment. And I think that's what this show is. So the first part of the show is creating the show. The second part of the show is performing the show. And it's all packaged within 85 minutes. So they're singing, they're singing, there's dancing. Oh, and they're, you know, they're great characters. They're wonderful lines, you know? I mean, it's, I think it's, people leave humming. I can't believe this, my song. Humming and with a smile on their face. And that just doesn't happen very often. So I'm thrilled by that. That to me is an accomplishment. That to me is an achievement that I'm proud of. So anyway, I don't know. Does that answer your question? What the show is? It's about everything. No, it's about, it's about being true to yourself and your authentic self and finding your own identity at a time when it was incredibly difficult to do that. And it required bravery and real Hutzpah to do that. But Christine did it, sort of miles, but Christine really did it in space. You know, she put herself out on stage in front of audiences that had no idea back in 19 to 53 of what a transgender person was, no idea. And she charmed them, she mesmerized them, she entertained them, she made them laugh. She wasn't confronted as a performer. So I think the show ultimately is just meant to be a snapshot of a certain pair of individuals at a certain time in American history, both of them very different, they make them very different backgrounds and creating something together. I'm all about collaboration and this is all about, the show is about the two of them collaborating. So anyway, that's a long-winded version, but you know, I can go out even longer if you want. - No, I love that. You have encapsulated everything great about the show from the story to the performance 'cause it's absolutely leaving the show humming and smiling. This is in no way a downer, you know? - No, no, no downer. - I really didn't. - No, no, no downer. - Like that's that ending and I just left and I was like, this is so wonderful. And I just wanted to share it with everyone once I left the theater. I was like, you've got to see the show, it's inspiring. - Tell me this, isn't it rare to feel that way when you leave the show? I mean, I think in the olden days, it will call them that one used to have more of that, but not so much anymore. And there's a kind of exhaustion that people think and maybe even keeps them from going to the theater, but that's not the intention of this show. And it's certainly not what our brilliant performers, Jesse James Kaitel and Mark Nadler, bring to this show. I mean, the comments I get about these two are just phenomenal performers and they work so beautifully together. And that's really heartwarming. I mean, it's really heartwarming because it's a small, it's two people. It's two people in a piano, you know? And they are creating this entire world and these two very, very different characters. And it's thrilling and it's uplifting. - Yes, beautifully put. And I kind of want to snowball off of that idea because as I mentioned, this is the next, if you will, stage in the production of this. The show has been produced several times now. And now we are arriving here in Chelsea, I believe. Anyway, you're downtown, as it were. And I would love to know with this new iteration of the show, you know, as you've been developing it, what changes can we expect or, you know, what exactly can audiences expect from this current iteration of the Christine Jorgensen show? - They can expect a new beginning, a new prologue to the show. You know, the whole process throughout these three iterations of the show has really been about working collaboratively with the director and directors and director and the actors to hone down this show to its essence. Right? And that's necessary because nowadays, you know, 90 minutes is the new norm for shows. You know, I just saw it just a Butterworth show. It was two hours and 45 minutes long. I couldn't believe it. You just never have that anymore. Anyway, our show is 85, is going to be 85 minutes long, maybe 90 at the very 85, probably. So the process processes involve the process processes involved in getting the show to hear, which is in Soho, have really involved revising the text so that it plays fast and smooth. And I also wanted a brief new prologue to the show set 10 years later that Christine is looking back on this period in her life. And of course, it allows Jessie to have a fabulous new costume for the six. People are going to basically hear the same tunes, the same numbers, but we are in a larger space now. So they're going to see some differences in stage direction. They're going to see, you know, the actors will have a lot more room to play in, as it were. But they're basically going to see a show that they will remember. If they have seen this show, they will see a new beginning, which bookends the last part of the show in a nice way. And they'll just see it on a larger stage. So here, we'll have about 140 seats. And some of those seats will be in like cabaret tables, if they want. People can actually buy a cabaret seat at a table, have a glass of champagne, maybe. So it's a different configuration in that sense from '59s, '59, which was a much smaller theater. Anyway, I think it just opens it up more. It just, it opens it up more, but the essence of the show very much the same. - Bob, that sounds so exciting. I want to get one of those cabaret seats. That sounds wonderful. I mean, the whole end of the show is the cabaret. - Exactly, I was going to say, as knowing where the show was, yeah. - So it makes sense to have some tables set up where people can actually sit and be at a nightclub, which is what is taking place in 1953 in the show. - Yeah, come in. So with these revisions, with this new iteration of the show, has the message or thought that you're hoping audiences take away from the show changed? And along with that, if you want to remind us about the message you're hoping audiences take. - I don't think the message has changed. The message has become clearer, I think. And certainly it's become clearer from the very first version of this show, which was two hours long and two acts. That was done at the National Arts Club a couple of years ago. The message ultimately is, who are you? Who do you want to be? Who do you dare to be? What is your authentic self? And you will know who that authentic self is, your authentic self. If you listen to who you are in your heart, your heart will always provide that answer. I'm not saying it's easy to find that authentic self, especially nowadays, or even especially back then. But I think that the message, and of course, I want to remind people that you don't write a play or a musical, thinking, I have a message, I'm going to. I have a message I'm going to broadcast here. The message has to come out organically from the show itself, from the characters, what they're doing, who they are, the drama that ensues and all of that sort of stuff. So I'm not saying that this is a banner message, but I think it's encapsulated and embedded within the show overall. And then the other, I think the other message is the joy, pain, and love that comes from deep collaboration. I mean, collaboration is everything. Nowadays, we really need it more than ever. And these two people, totally unlikely, totally figured out a way to work together and create joy for an audience, that to me is sort of what the show is about as well. I'm getting tears in my eyes just thinking about it. - I love that idea, I love that message. I think it definitely, these ideas come through so strongly in the show. - Yeah, we didn't, we wanted to keep the intimacy of the show. You know, there are other theaters that, you know, we're, you know, the producer and we looked at, but we decided on here because it was larger, but it's still allowed for the intimacy of the show to come through. So you're never that far away from the stage, but you're right, you do have, you can step back, you know, afford to be looking on instead of being right in their laps. But we just wanted to keep the sense of this small space. And, you know, nightclubs, nightclubs weren't huge. Some were, but most of them weren't, you know? And nightclubs were very much a part of American popular culture back then. And every town or city had one. And they're gone now, basically, except for casinos, but they were places where people could just go and have an evening out. They'd have a drink, maybe dinner. They could have to be entertained, you know, eat a little glamour, you know, a little entertainment. They weren't huge spaces. So it was important for us to remember that and to keep this, you know, in a reasonable, reasonably sized room, but larger than the other, yeah. - Well, this all leads to my next question, which we've kind of spoken about before we started. And that, of course, is who are you hoping have access to this production of the Christine Jorgensen show? - Right. I personally hate the idea of, you know, like targeting audiences or, you know, thinking in terms of who might want to see. I want everyone to see it. I think it's important for everyone. I think, you know, within the various demographics that everyone talks about nowadays, it's going to be an important show hopefully for the LGBTQ+ community because it provides a snapshot of history that is never really given to us. I think, and believe it or not, there are people who, you know, Christine performed as late as 1982, I believe, Freddy's in the village. There are people who still remember, who still remember her. And certainly people who remember her as a media icon. Oh my God, you know, as I said earlier, Christine was the most famous, one of the most famous people in the world, she was as famous as President Eisenhower for a while, you know, I mean. And there are people who still remember all of that media coverage, even remember her coming back from Denmark. So that's a huge audience for this show, just older people who remember and who have always been fascinated by Christine. And then I just want, I don't know, I want everyone to come, I really do. I hope that younger people will come to see the show and I don't want to put any kind of labels on them. I don't care if they're LGBTQ+ or whatever they are, I don't care. I just want younger people to come because they'll be entertained and they'll be informed to a certain extent. Now this is not a lecture, I'm not pretending it is, it's not meant to be. But there's history there. And I think anyone who has an interest in the past or where we've come from or how far we've come or maybe not how far we've come, we'll find this show intriguing. So I don't know, that's kind of a vague answer, but I think the LGBTQ+ community will be a large part of it. - Absolutely. That is the perfect sales pitch and I cannot circle anymore. Like 100% behind that, absolutely. - Well, as we wrap things up, I would love to know, do you have any other projects or productions coming on the pipeline? We might be able to plug for you. - Well, you can't plug it yet, but I am working on a new play. Oh, it's quite thrilling. I've had to put it aside now because of all the work we're doing at 15, but it's called Houdini and Me. And it's a play about Harry Houdini and Rose McEnberg, who in the 1920s became his chief ghostbuster, spook chaser. It's really, there's some fabulous information there and a wonderful story. I'm hoping we'll have a stage reading of that at the National Arts Club. I don't know when we haven't set the day yet. It'll either be March or May, I think. And then also, you know, I want my play Oscar and Walt to be done in New York. You know, Oscar and Walt has had several productions. You know, it was done premiered in Rome. It won a best full-length play award in Los Angeles. And then it premiered in Rome and then it was done in Pittsburgh. And then it was done during COVID. It was done as a Zoom, you know, production with John Rubenstein and Judy Kuhn and Sam Underwood. And then it was live streamed in a production from the University of Indiana, Bloomington. So for those who don't know, this is a play Oscar and Walt is about the meeting between Oscar Wilde and Walt Whitman in 1882 at Whitman's home in Camden, New Jersey. And it's a one act show about 90 minutes. But it's wonderful. And it's just a powerhouse for three actors. And I think that it's timed his right for New York. And I, you know, I can't say that it's gonna happen, but I certainly hope it will happen. And those are the two big things that I'm kind of focusing on these days. - I love that. I'm so excited to hear that hopefully Oscar and Walt are gonna be done because that is a brilliant, brilliant show. So we're putting it out in the universe. We're putting it out to the ethos. - We're putting it out in the universe right now on this show. - That's right. - Yeah. - I'm so little. - So with all that, if our listeners would like more information about the Christine Jorgensen show, or about you, maybe they'd like to reach out to you, how can they do so? - They can do it in a couple of ways. If they want to find out about the show, it was in it Christine's story about the theater. And by the way, the theater is easy to reach. It's in Soho. It's easily accessible from the one train, the C and E train, the N and the R train. It's really close to Spring Street, which is so happening. Oh my God, I went down there the other night just to see the area. And it was hopping. My God, lots of restaurants. So you can go and see this show and go to a restaurant. They can go to www.Christine JorgensenShow.com. As I said earlier, Jorgensen would ease Jorgensen. Christine JorgensenShow.com. If they want to contact me or see anything more about me or read anything more about me, they can go to my website, which is DonaldSteven Olson.com. That's Olson with two O's. See, that's the Swedish spelling. And Christine's Jorgensen is with ease that the Danish spelling is for these names. That's interesting. And they can also go to here, h-e-r-e.org for more information that will give them information about the here art center in Soho and other things they do besides our show. They can buy tickets for our show. They can see more information about our show. I would say the best place to go though for tickets to is christinejorgensenshow.com. - Perfect. Well, Donald, it has been wonderful, as always to speak with you. I'm so excited about this show, about this new production of it. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to see what's next, not only for it, but for you. So thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. - Well, thank you. It's been just a pleasure. It always is. - And my guest today has been the incredible playwright and co-composer, Donald Stephen Olson, who joined us to talk about his wonderful show, The Christine Jorgensen Show, which is playing October 10th through November 17th at here. Tickets and more information are available at christinejorgensenshow.com. And I would definitely advise you to hurry and get your tickets now for the show. You will not be disappointed. It was a critics pick, excuse me. It was a creators pick back when it was playing at 59, 59 theaters. And we can't wait to go see it ourselves again and bestow that on them. We also have some contact information for our guests, which we'll be posting on our episode description as well as on our social media posts. But run over to christinejorgensenshow.com now. Get your tickets for The Christine Jorgensen Show playing October 10th through November 17th. And we want to add for our American listeners that election day is November 5th. Make sure you are registered to vote. Have a plan to cast your ballot and do your democratic duty. You can find out how and where you can register and vote by visiting vote.gov. The future demands that we fight for it now. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez, reminding you to turn off your cell phones, unwrap your candies and keep talking about the theater. - Stay Twisper. - Thank you. (upbeat music) - If you like what you hear, please leave a five star review, like and subscribe. - You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at stagewhisperpod. - And feel free to reach out to us with your comments and personal stories at stagewhisperpod@gmail.com. - And be sure to check out our website for all things stagewhisper and theater. You'll be able to find merchandise, tours, tickets, and more. Simply visit stagewhisperpod.com. Our theme song is Maniac by Jazzar. Other music on this episode provided by Jazzar and Billy Murray. 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