[MUSIC] >> Welcome back listeners to another brand new episode of The British Eventing Show on the Accraisings Eventing Podcast. Goodness me, September is done and dusted, we're already in talk to over the final months of the British Eventing season and it feels like it has flown by in the blink of an eye. But so much has happened. There is lots to unpick, but for now, this show is focusing on the Young Horse Championships, the British Young Horse Championships that were held at Kornbury House International Horse Trials a few weeks ago. Tom McEwen is going to be on the show a little bit later on to give us his insights on not only his brilliantly successful Kornbury, but also looking forward to Lilly on Don J and a word on Poe later on in the season. So stay tuned for that. But first of all, Rosie Williams is back with me. Rosie, how are you? It has been a year, I think, your year anniversary of British Eventing in the last couple of weeks. How's it all going? Yeah. Hi, Nicole. Good thanks. Yes, it is. It's a year. Whoo, that's flown by. I can't believe that I started British Eventing at the end of September last year and it's now really October and all of these October and we're a month away from Lilly finishing the season. So yeah, I'm excited. I'm a little bit tired, I must admit, there's been a lot on and I've been in a lot of places. But I'm ready to see the end of the season out, I must admit. I think we all get to the stage of the season and we're like, "Oh, okay, one last push." And then it's kind of chance to regroup and go again for next year. And it's funny because we normally get to walk the end of November and we're like, "Oh, can't wait till the season starts again." I have to ask because actually, you know, in post a year and coming in to a role that was not never going to be the most straightforward and I think you yourself very much saw that and said that from the beginning, there's been a lot of changes over the last 12 months. Looking back on it now, what are you most proud of? Well, what has been your biggest win in terms of actually things that this time 12 months ago, you thought it would be great if we could do that? That's a really interesting question because I think it's not necessarily things that have changed, it's the feeling, it's the culture, it's the environment. I mean, I was well briefed before I took on the job and I knew it was going to be tough, but the first few weeks was a pretty hard start in the sense that I was sitting at my desk going, "Oh my God, we are so far away from people working together that this is going to take me years." And I've had some really good examples of just recently where it's actually, I feel like the ship is sort of starting to turn a little bit or, no, I think I did an adage with a bunch of stakeholders that I got together about how big the ship was, and I felt it was very much like that ship that was stuck in Sills Canal, that we were all pushing on both sides, so the ship was never turning. And now I think we've got a lot of people on the correct side of the ship so that we can stop pushing against each other and start to turn it. There's still a lot of work to do, but the environment feels better for me. Like, people are walking up to me at events and Lady walked up to me the other day at South of England and she's a governance expert and she's retiring or she's retiring or changing her job and she said, "I've got a bit of spare time. Can I help?" And I'm like, "Yes, you can. In fact, I don't want to beat up." And random people are contacting me and saying, "You know, I do this. I spoke to somebody 10 years ago, but now I want to come and help if I can." We've got a number of different organisers that have been out of the calendar wanting to come back into the calendar. You know, we've got a really different feel around B and eventing in general, I think. So, that's what, you know, we've got things like the abandonment fund, which has just been a godsend for us. We've got, you know, we've got metals and we've got lots of good talent coming through. We've got lovely horses coming through, talented. But, you know, they're the sort of bits that are out there, but I think the feeling is more like I can feel is a bit different. It's really interesting you say that actually, because I, it would have been something that I was, I think I said it on the podcast at a time or two before, that if we don't love the sport, how do we expect anybody else to love the sport and how we portray ourselves is very much, you know, how we kind of appear to the outside world. And there's a lot of external threats or changes that could kind of be implemented in eventing. And I feel like, actually, when we all pull together, the eventing community, as we talk about it, we can achieve great things. But if we're pushing against one another and we don't even like the sport, then how do we actually sell that to other people? How do we enable its future? How do we make it thrive? Because that isn't possible. And I would definitely say, you know, my Facebook, my social media accounts, are very much kind of, you know, in everything eventing, basically, whether it be riders, owners, green stakeholders, you know, people that love the sport and by nature, you know, just the algorithm, I guess, it knows that I love eventing. So I see a lot of things about it. And I have noticed a real difference that this time, 12 months ago and even before that, there would have been news that people didn't perhaps like and they would have absolutely turned on one another, turned on British eventing. There would have been huge unrest and actually that was not healthy in any way, shape or form. One, you don't want to put anything on trial by social media, because that's dangerous and not the right way of doing things. But to it, it bred a very, very unhealthy environment. And I would definitely say, I've noticed a massive difference and a much more positive place, a much nicer place. There's a lot, you know, there's never, you're never going to please everybody. There's always things that can be improved. And I think you'd be the first to say that. That actually there's still a long way to go with lots of different things. However, I, as a fan of the sport, definitely feel like the culture has become a much nicer place to be. And that's a really lovely feeling, actually, as somebody that loves eventing. Yeah, and it should never be underestimated, that people join sports if they feel good about the sport. And the first thing that people do now, you know, the modern age, is they go and have a look on social media. And if there's all this vitriol and stuff going around and, you know, whatever the national governing body is, or the shop, or whatever, if there's a whole part of negativity of it already, then why would you go and join the sport? But yeah, I think you're right. I think, you know, and I think I'm hoping that my sort of open door policy has helped that. And what I think is really nice about some of that stuff. And I'm absolutely open for people to have other ideas and not agree and all that stuff. But it's what I think is nice is actually the eventing community in some instances, not that I get onto social media much, but in some instances, they're actually self administering things. And people are calling people out for either being unfair or, you know, making statements that are true or whatever. So, you know, I don't want social media to rule my world. And I don't think it should. I think we've got to be seen to be doing the right stuff. And if people disagree, then I'm very happy to have the debate with them. And sometimes I think that the issue with anything to do, particularly national governing bodies of sport, you've always got to do the right thing for the majority, which always means that there is always going to be a minority that doesn't agree with you. And you've got to look forward, not backwards. And that can always get you in a difficult place. But, you know, it's interesting. We're talking about negativity on social media. Actually, I think it's really positive. I think what we've done this year or the team and I've been able to do, what all the stakeholders have been able to do. You know, I mean, we've, I'm hoping that, you know, the organizers, I've been working with the organizers really hard to try and help them to understand my position, help me to understand their position, you know, Rachel and Laura are a brilliant in terms of the, the organizers leading that sort of group. We've got stakeholder leaders. You've got Hector Payne and Bruce Haskell from the elite players. And we've got the writer focus group who I have brilliant discussions with. You know, we don't sort of stick to an agenda anymore. We just sort of chat through what is the current issue and how we can all find a solution for it. It's not how I go and find the solution because I'm not an expert in venting. It's about how everybody in the group can, can find the best solution. You know, we, we've got, you know, 26, 25 calendars and, you know, nearly ready. We've been waiting on a few bits that have got a fallout of, of some of the discussions that are going on. And I suppose just to, to give everybody an understanding of that, we just can't put the calendar out and go right. That's the date. It's a really complicated, it's a complicated piece of work because we've got to think about the pathway for horses to go qualification through the year. And we've also got to make sure that we've got all of the right events in the right places for weather and ground and all those sorts of things, as well as we've got to look geographically in terms of making sure that we're servicing our members, you know, we, our peripheral events, we need to really work with our peripheral events to make sure that, you know, our 80, 90, 100 centimetre rider that doesn't want to go to the Olympics has got enough events locally to them that they can just, that we can justify their membership. You know, we're having really good conversations with a couple of other partners in the, in the, in the environment that we'll be announcing over the next few weeks, just in terms of opening up the, opening up the game and getting more people, eventing more often as locally as possible for them. You know, there's obviously the people who are going to drive miles and miles, miles to do qualifications and go to four stars and all that stuff. But, you know, 75% of our population are people who event in 100 and below. And we've got to add value. So yeah, we're doing lots of fun things in the background. I, you know, the team and I need a bit of a rest, I think, which is fine. You know, there's a few weeks there in the middle that we'll have a bit of thing. But we've got, you know, there's a lot of work going on. We've got two groups that are going to be reviewing the rules. One, looking at the FEI rules so that, you know, we can try really hard to influence the FEI and their rules and make them, you know, accessible, et cetera. And for me, as important, we've got another small group of people who are looking at our national rules, you know, to just to check that they're clear, check that they're concise, check that they promote participation, not stop it. And so, you know, there's a bunch of people in the background and great people who are volunteering their time to go through things and look at stuff for us. So yeah, it's really busy, but that's OK. That's what we get paid for. And I was going to say as well, actually, that's just a reminder that we're all still in the thick of 2024, but actually planning for 2025 has been going on for some time and actually everybody now is already thinking about next year, particularly within the organization. That's the nature of the sport and the nature of organizing things. And we're in 2026 at the moment. We've got the process is out now with organizers in the bidding process. And, you know, we're bidding for 26 that they'll be bidding over the next few months for for events in 26 and beyond. So, you know, that's the FEI classes and all those sorts of things in the championship. So it's really, we've got to be two years ahead or we're all behind, but we've also got to do the business as usual today stuff. And, you know, the today stuff is things like the abandonment fund. I mean, I'm in love with the abandonment. Let's say, oh, can we have an update, Rosie? I mean, because that was a fairly big move coming into this year. And you said yourself, you know, this is the idea we've got. This is the money that's in the pot. We don't entirely know how it's going to work in so much as to whether the format, everything else, how's it looking? And what kind of the big wins from that? And actually, what might you tweak with that moving forwards? Is there anything that can be improved for beyond this year? Yeah, look, I mean, there's 156,000 pounds in the pot as of today. OK, that's after we spent. We helped stew at Osborneton with a bunch of rock. I don't know what the rock. But the one was-- it's a stone, Rosie. It's a stone rock stone for the lorry park, you know, because the lorry park was going to stop Osborneton. Now, the course is fine, but it's getting these big lorries in and out. So we put stone down with, you know, help stew it out with some stone. And just being able to do that sort of stuff quickly and being really flexible is actually brilliant. And that's part of the abandonment fund stuff. We've got 156 grand in there at the moment. We lost more than a mile a couple of weeks ago, but that's OK. We, you know, we had enough in there to cover that. We've doubled, I mean, it's nearly double what we started with. And what we're doing with, you know, we work with the organizers to see for next year, if we can increase the percentage of return to the riders, to the entrance. That's still TBC. We've got to work on the models of how we would do that and how that's sustainable for the organizers, particularly. And then next year, we'll just keep doing it, I think. And then we just needed to play out over a couple of years. And if we do get to the point, and I think I said this pretty early on, if we get to the point where there's half a million bucks sitting in the pot, then we might change the percentage for that year, or we might change how much people contribute, or I don't know. But that's the flexibility of the abandonment fund is we can we can up and down it, but it's again, I go back to that bit that it's everybody's winning a little bit out of it, rather than some winning a lot and others winning nothing. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's an important point as well, actually, because there will always naturally be that question of, "Oh, right, OK, so that's 150-odd grand in the pot. "What are you going to do with it?" And ultimately, it is about the longevity. It's about going into next year with a more secure pot than there was this year, because it's been a success, hopefully. And then actually being able to have that flexibility if it gets to a point whereby actually there's enough money in the pot, there's enough money in the pot, and therefore, maybe it can be reinvested elsewhere, or maybe the percentage has changed, or however that may work, but it is very much. It'll always be in the pot. The development fund is seen, I see it, and everybody on the board, et cetera, sees it as the abandonment fund. It won't be spent on something else, you know? Like October, whatever, that we shouldn't be looking at doing that. We should be either looking at, you know, it might be spent on investing in tracking, or something that will, going forward, stop abandonment, but every year it's going to be abandonment focused, and, you know, keeping people on their horses for longer, and giving people more options in terms of their ability to be able to compete. And, you know, that's what we've got to do. The circle, you know, we're not going to increase our membership if we don't give people more opportunities to compete and have more fun doing it. And, you know, we're all very conscious of cost. But, you know, the costs of eventing, most of the increase in costs of eventing have come outside of what eventing can control, you know, fuel the price of a horse, you know, your own insurance of a yard, all those sorts of things. I mean, that's just outside of our control. What we can control is the amount of opportunities that you have so that you can get more value out of your membership. Yeah, definitely. One of the other big projects of this year has very much been the British Eventing here to help scheme it. And as part of that feedback and constructive feedback from people, rather than going on social media and saying, "We like this, we didn't like this," actually people having the opportunity to feedback and be listened to. So, the QR codes that have been available at every event, how has that gone and what sort of feedback have you had to this point? So, I'm so pleased with that bit. We've had 4,000 people feedback. Now, which is a lot. Yeah, I mean, and the return rate of those is really, really good. Like Waitrose would like that amount of feedback, you know, which is really positive. I mean, you know, there are things that we have to fix and there are things that on the day go wrong. And we know that's always going to happen. But for people to be able to say that and then the organisers to be able to action it for next year is just brilliant, we're doing some really good work in terms of it's not finished yet, but we will produce a, well, not a paper, but we'll produce a document for the membership to see, you know, where were the key bits that needed to be improved? What are people doing about it? How many people have fed back to us? What's the general trends? You know, and one of the general trends that I just love is four, I think it's 4.7 out of five, which is really hard, people tell us that they are safe. They feel safe, completely at the age of ending events. Now, for a sport like ours, that's massive. And I think that's really, really important that the people that are coming to our events really understand that everything is done to try and keep them as safe as possible in what is a challenging sport, which is great. You know, and the work with, you know, volunteers are getting a great, they're getting a huge amount of people feeding back going, the volunteers are lovely, they're smart at me, they help me catch my horse, they, you know, they smart at me if I fell off and all those sorts of things. And that just makes, you know, you can never underestimate how somebody's smarting at somebody, you know, or picking up their show jumping pole if they've knocked it down or whatever, helps them come back next week and helps them become a member or stay a member of British eventing. So, and I think we've got to really celebrate all that stuff. We will at the end of the season, I think, we'll work out, we'll share everything that people have told us all. And we'll do it again next year. You know, this is something that's now here to study. We need to know and the organizers need to know and the eventing needs, I need to know what's going well and what we can improve on. - And I think actually people having that opportunity, feeling listened to and giving construction, constructive feedback to organize as well as actually the governing body as a whole is very valuable, as you say, somebody like Waitos would women love that amount of feedback? Is it a highly engaged audience? Actually, if we can challenge all of that in the right positive direction, nothing will ever be perfect and things will go wrong and everything else that you say, but we can make it a better place. We can make improvements and changes. In terms of what else has been going on, you've been all over the place. I think I've seen you at a couple of places in the last month as well. I think you've done Conbury, Planham, south of England and Munster, there's a real selection of different events, different fields, different kind of target audiences. What's that like and actually what's the biggest thing that you learned from going to those different events? - It's really interesting. How important the person is at the car park door? Is that like, it either makes your day or not. Yeah, look, I mean, it is the different scale. It's the different scale of the events, but also for me, it's about, it's a similar type of people at every single event and the importance of the central group of people. You know, like you've got TAs and stewards, which it doesn't matter whether you're at Blendermore or at Munster, they're just as important. The French judges, they're just as important at Blender as they are at Munster or south of England. What I loved about south of England, they're a really new engaged population of people because they've combined a sort of, I think it's like a lot of two events put together. And there was hundreds and hundreds of people sitting around watching the costume, the costume tree and the show jumping in. Lots of them didn't have a clue what was going on, but they were really entertained. And I think that's what we've got to do to make our events a bit more viable is to bring in a new audience. And what I love about the whole, what I've loved about all of those events is, you saw the real positive engagement between a human and a horse. You know, and it was all beautifully done. There was no real, there was no problems, there was no drivers, you know, people fell off and stuff, but you know, that's sort of part of it. But yeah, the difference in the scale and also the similarities between all the different types of events. - I have to admit, being at Cormbrue for a day and lovely day, beautiful venue. I love the fact that they've made it quite, it's like a really high-end festival feel. Like it is just a really cool event that actually has got some really different bits to it than things that we're kind of used to. And I think that's really exciting, but there was a really different audience. And there was a real kind of fresh feeling. I was chatting to a few people watching who actually hadn't been eventing before. They didn't really know what they were doing. They didn't really know what was going on, but they were having a lovely day out. And actually, I think if we can encourage more people to come and be involved in our sport from all different walks of life, that can only be a positive thing. I mean, Professor Green was there with the Ebony Riding Centre, that Lydia Haywood has been so involved in. And like, how many times would you ever see Professor Green at a horse dress in Oxfordshire? Like, you just wouldn't. And it's great to see different, sort of people from different backgrounds that actually might not be involved in the sport. Also, there might have been a few potential sponsors there as well, which is very exciting for eventing. I saw that actually there was a really nice story and a really nice win up in towards the borders. Rosie, actually, with Penrith coming together and having a lovely event, they'd actually really kind of fill the gap in a need. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Frenchfields decided that the people from Frenchfields decided they didn't want to do it again. So, Kath Martin and Rob Skimming have stepped in and they've taken over the Frenchfield site, done a whole pile of work to it and worked with the landowner and they put on a cracking event and then, you know, don't underestimate it. They had, I think they had the site for about six weeks and the feedback from the event was brilliant. We didn't have a hole in that, you know, the calendar up that end of the country because they really worked hard to get that event on. So, you know, they're locked on in the calendar now. So, that's brilliant. We've got some new venues coming back. Well, coming next year, we've got one of the South of Scotland, which is going to be great. We've got a whole pile of conversations going on in the background now about where we place them, what we do. But, you know, you get the good news and then you get sort of, we worked really hard with Chatsworth to try and find a different date for them that would fit in with their logistics and, you know, putting on an event like Chatsworth isn't easy. But, we've not been able to do that. So, we've agreed that, you know, take a break for 25, let everybody know early so that we're not, you know, people aren't thinking it's going to happen and then it doesn't. And, you know, they'll begin the bidding process for the 26 FEI classes and all that sort of stuff going forward. So, that's a good option, I think. You know, we're trying to be really upfront with people and, you know, not necessarily just hold on to things that aren't working when we need to probably just take a stop and re-engage and do things differently. Yeah. - And they would be, you know, one of the events that have had a really bad run of luck with COVID, with weather for the last couple of years. Like, it hasn't been easy. And so, fingers crossed that, you know, that everything can work towards them coming back, bigger and better than ever in 20, 26, which is a huge part of the calendar. Rosie, end of the season is coming to a close, as we've said. Over the winter, planning's already in places we've talked about for the next couple of years. What would you love to see, actually, in the next sort of four or five months, be able to pull together for the start of 2025? - Well, we've got to read a eventing all the way through the winter, so don't forget that, you know, you want to stay on your horse and keep them going. And that's a great way to do that. There's lots of different events. We've got some new events with the arena at Ace of Entings. So that'll keep that bit going. I think a connected calendar is what we really need that's got enough options for people to compete locally, but also delivers the pathway. And that's not easy. And if we take a couple of good steps forward this year, then we can take a few more steps the next year. Nothing's ever going to be perfect in terms of the calendar and it's not always going to fit everybody, but we'll be making some pretty decent changes in that. I think a reinvigorated team of people that we can get out on the ground early on in the season, we're going to be doing some training. There's going to be some training announced over the coming weeks that is for both officials and riders and those sorts of people, so everybody. And yeah, well, I think we need a bit of a breather. We need to sort of stop for a minute, but we also need to crack on and get those sorts of things up and running and I think, you know, starting the season with the abandonment fund in the position, hopefully it will be in, we'll make a real difference to the look and feel of everything that we're going to be doing. We're going to be sticking to our current entry system this year because we're not quite ready to do anything different with our back end stuff. Obviously we've got, you know, IT has been a big issue with British eventing, but it's a very big challenge to unwind and we need to take our time to make sure that we do that well. So all those sorts of things we'll be going on in the background. - Well, lots to look forward to. Rosie, thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure to get a real honest insight into everything this year. So fingers crossed, we can keep having these very kind of real conversations and be very transparent, which I think is a really big thing, heading into next year in a big part of the kind of the culture and everybody's understanding of British eventing as well. But I do hope that you and the team get a little chance of a break over the winter. I would just say listeners, actually, as the season draws to a close, there is the British Eventing Support Trust Fundraising Ball at the Savoy Hotel in London. I understand it's sold out. So if you've missed your tickets, you might be too late for this year. Make sure you get them early for next year. However, there are lots of different ways that you can still get involved and support it because there's going to be a great silent auction. I've seen some of the silent auction lots and they are really cool. I was going to say money can't buy experiences, but actually the opportunity to go behind the scenes at different yards and different stables, both in Eventing and outside of Eventing and racing as well. Plus, there's lots of different experiences. There's products, there's all sorts there. So if you're looking for a Christmas present, if you're looking to give something back, check out the silent auction. It will be launched in November, early mid November, I think, the official launch date is. So that will conclude on the evening, which is Saturday the 30th of November. But please give generously. And if you've got a prize that you might like to donate as well, I'm sure get in touch with Best and they would love to hear from you. So lots of ways to get involved in the sport, lots of ways to support it. And looking forward to next year already. This season isn't done yet, Rosie. Still got a bit to go. We've still got a few events to go. So yeah, we'll be hanging on in there until the end of the season and then we will definitely have a chat over the winter. Lots to look forward to as I say, Rosie. Thank you, listeners. Thank you, as always. And now, on to the second half of the show. Now, one rider who had a very successful corumbary house international horse trials. He was the leading rider. He also won the British eventing seven-year-old young horse championship class as well. Tom McEwen, how are you? Very well, thank you, Nick. Very well. And corumbary was a great show. It was amazing on many, many levels. But yeah, that was a great, great show. I was going to ask you about just how big a delivery of Hawxton Lager you are going to end up with, actually, because each of the riders that won a class got weighed and had their body weight in Hawxton Lager. You won a few classes. And actually the leading rider prize as well. Has that come yet? It hasn't arrived yet. I know TP's got his. Mine hasn't arrived yet, but everyone's a bit smaller and we're allowed a few extras, so for the seven-year-old I had an owner on, I had some guy that I'd never met that was a student at Lager's help with the weight. So, yeah, looking forward to receiving it. It's great stuff and what a great prize to actually make something really good fun. So, master, thank you, Julie Hornbood. But yeah, it's great Lager and it's a great fun prize, but God knows how much we're going to receive. So we did have quite a few people on the scales a few times. Well, enjoy it, because actually one of the things about corumbary, I think everybody will agree is that there were some really fun, interesting initiatives. It was like the leading rider prize. It's like the, kind of the horse don't initiative as well, but really just added to the feel of the event. But first of all, let's talk about your success in the young horse three-star class, because you actually had three finish inside the top 20. It was unbelievably competitive, two in the top 10, two in the top five, I think it was actually. And the other was very, very well placed after the first two phases and just had a couple of rails on the last day, still finished on a very respectable score. So going into this class, had that been a feature target for those three horses coming into this season? Was that very much something on your radar? - Yeah, of course. So Maestro, who actually won, needed it as a qualification as well for Leon. But I had sort of got, it's very difficult when you got three amazingly lovely, but different young horses to be able to pick for something like Leon. But they definitely all had an early on sort of, without being pushed too hard in the background, really. And that was sort of an idea if it went as well as it possibly could. And like he said, Maestro came out and he was on Flying Form, which is exactly how he is. I mean, he went to the Narcan with Michelle Kenney at the five-year-old. So that's the world jumping championships. And you know what, he is just excelling this year in eventing. It's just taken me a bit of time to sort of get a lift ship and build up a bit of strength on the flats. But his jumping is incredible. And I must say he's loving his scholarship, flying round. So it was really, really cool for his owners who have been long, long time supporters of Me, Fred and Penny Barker. So that was really, really nice, I must say, at Cormbary. But like you say, Cormbary is such a great showcase of event. There's lots going on around the arena, actually quite a nice dress argerina, but miles away, obviously, quite have the atmosphere of Leon. But at the same time, it does feel special and important. The cross-country course is always lovely and flowing. And actually, when you're going at the speed that you need to at three-start, actually it's perfectly technical enough and really sort of gets you ready for something like Leon. So yeah, it was perfect breath. And definitely it was on the cards for all three of them. - What do you learn about a horse, a young horse, particularly kind of at the early stages of their career? Because Cormbary, with the seven-year-old and the six-year-old's young horse championships, they show jump on the final day. - How do you learn from the young horses that are doing that for the first time? And what does that add to their kind of education as such? 'Cause it's very much about the kind of the foundations at this stage, isn't it? - Yeah, yeah, completely. And it's also young horses, young horses. And a little bit like us, not every day is gonna be perfect. And you actually learn quite a few things, especially jumping on the last day again. Obviously, Cormbary is sort of like six-minute, six-minute cross-country course, being a short. And when they truss up in the morning of Sunday and then jumping the afternoon to actually, it's something that they really sort of learned to understand. 'Cause you definitely see with the older horses, you see like all the horses at Burleigh or whether it might be really understanding the process and exactly what's going on. And for them, it's just a bit of learning. So Shandale Arnold jumped, to be honest, incredibly on the last day, but went down the treble and it was towards the owner's tent, which if anyone's been to Cormbary knows, it's usually quite busy. And just lost all concentration and looked straight in the owner's tent. And he just had two down in the treble, but the rest of the course was brilliant. So you find out a lot of things about them and just 'cause they're all three lovely horses, different things that happen and it's sort of just a learning process really. - What happens next? Because two of them have been selected now for Lilion D'Ange. Both Quintus and Maestro have been selected and then Shandale Arnold is a direct reserve. So what do you do with them in the build-up then to Lilion? Will they have another run or will they go straight there? - Yeah, so they selected the sort of the week after Cormbary and it's done between the selectors and, or a selector and Dickie and Chris and alongside decorating. So it's all sort of taken out your hand. So no really sort of all those tough decision between the three of them. It'd be one of those if you ran the same event three times in a row, you'd probably get with Maestro horses, you'd probably get a slightly different outcome. Although they'd all be very close to each other, they'd be slightly different. The two that are going, they are not running again. They've done plenty for seven year olds this year and I don't always believe in running too often. They all go, hopefully if the rain stops, they go for a nice cross-country school down at, down at Ron Dumas' and they're doing quite a bit of fitness 'cause as we all were, it doesn't seem to stop raining. So even though Lilion now is fantastic and it's got, we all wear the surfaces that you do everything on, the cross-country and especially down the race course, can get a little bit soft. So for me, I'm just getting them a little bit fitter than I usually would get a horse for. At least I long just been preparation of it being a little bit wetter. And also, Lilion sort of takes a lot out of them. It's sort of usually about nine minutes. It's really well-run. It sort of starts in the race course up the banks, down the banks and not flat out the back. But what also takes a lot out of them is how the fences look, dressed, it's really imposing and the amount of people. I mean, the first year at Lilion I couldn't quite believe how many people rocked up on the south stage can watch it. So all those little things will take a little bit extra out of them 'cause they are not used to it. And at the same time, you've got to use it as obviously a part of competition, but also a bit of a process, a life process, really. And you'd know better than me, the amount of amazing horses that have actually come out of Lilion as a seven-year-old and really gone on to time. So yeah, it's part of their process. So for me this year, we've been getting them a little bit fitter, but no more runs. - It's interesting actually, 'cause when you say some brilliant horses have come out of Lilion, you've actually had some brilliant horses that have come out of Lilion as well. You've had some great results there. You've had four top 10 finishes, been on the podium twice. I'm actually, I was just looking at the results, Lord Chimp's Graffalo. Think a few listeners might have heard of him. You actually rode him at Lilion in his seven-year-old year, finished up 20, jumped at a very, very good clear inside the time cross-century. What was that like in terms of, in fact, he finished eight that year? What was that like in terms of riding him at that, knowing now what he's gone on to do? - I was doing a bit of maternity cover, which I have been known to do quite a bit of. (laughing) That was always the goal. So I took Walter down and Brooksville Benjamin Bount. Obviously, one has to go first and Walter went first. And actually, do you know what? He did the most amazing dresser test, but he was, I think he was either first, second, going. And he really didn't get the best, best mark. It was actually a wet year, actually, on that year, but it was before the surface went in. And it's quite soft, you know, I thought he did the most amazing test. We didn't quite get the mark, I was hoping for. But, cross-country, I can now see why Ross has so much fun around these amazing, big long courses. 'Cause the seven-year-old's coming back a bit tired, but not Walter. I think I don't think that I even left sort of first gear. It was so easy, so smooth. He loved the crowds. It was quite remarkable, I must say. So, yeah, I've had some amazing horses and rides there. So, from Walter that's gone on to achieve, well, everything. And, to other horses, like Toledo, who I must say, building up to, I mean, in R-ing, whether it would be sort of the making of them with the people, and if you drive the occasion, or if you're actually sending the other way, 'cause it's obviously a bit sharp and nervous. And actually, it really sent him, positively, the right way. And he, from then on, just loved doing things in front of crowds. So, yeah, it's the most amazing event. And, I mean, there'd be so many number of horses that have come out there that are so, so good. And, it's also an amazing thing to watch, 'cause you can actually see the good horses that find, make it look as easy as it can be, really. - I was gonna say, Toledo actually took the individual sort of medal in the seven-year-old back in 2014, 10 years ago, which is-- - Oh, yeah, a while ago. - Yeah, and a lot has happened since then. Obviously, he's been to world championships. He's taken team gold at the Tokyo Olympics. Obviously, this year has very much been for you, and for so many other people, kind of, everything has been about Paris. The build-up to Paris, getting selected for Paris, going to Paris, obviously, winning that gold. We're now talking about a couple of months down the line. How does it feel now to know, kind of, look in that trophy cabinet wherever you keep your medals, sock draw, whatever it might be, and kind of see those two team goals and think, God, that is an unbelievable achievement to make it to Olympics, but to come away with two team golds, Tom. Is that some kin? Does that still feel a bit of a pinch-free moment? - It definitely still feels like a bit of a pinch-free moment. I know it's a bit cliche. I don't really know how to describe it, really. It's something, Olympics is something since a kid that I've always loved, dreamt of. I've always watched the whole thing. I love all different sports. That's not just the question inside. I love, like, everything. And I love even enjoying the new sports that are added into it. And so, for me, it's always been, for me, the pinnacle of what I see eventing as. So, to be able to go there twice and come back with two team gold medals, two completely different games, two very special games, sort of slightly different reasons. Yeah, and I must say, it sometimes feels a little bit hard to believe, 'cause actually, once you've been there, it actually feels like a very special and a very high pressure, but just another competition, another team competition. And actually, when you come out and realise that actually it's Olympic games, it sort of dawns on you quite how special it is. - How do you bounce back from it? Because I can imagine it's not only physically quite exhausting, but mentally quite exhausting as well. And you're straight back into riding horses at Hartbury, and then, you know, Kombru's just around the corner as well. Mentally, how do you keep yourself kind of going at that point in the season, having come down off this massive high of Paris? - Yeah, I think the girls made a good call to go back to go and do the closing ceremony. But I must say, I struggled for the first few weeks. You just feel our team, the British team, if we start off with that, is so amazing. Me and Dubbs went nearly every continent to have a venting, just to try and get into our team. And then, to have the world champion in fourth, who, like Yas was just amazing, we're out there, shows how positively strong our team is. Like, it's incredibly strong, and she was unbelievable all week. But then, when you've been running through those motions of trying to get there, thinking you might have nearly got there, but there's four and obviously three compete at the games. And then, all of a sudden, the game's begin. There's just so many different layers to it. And actually, when you come out, you just sort of crash, really. And all of that sort of just sort of descends and goes. And I must say, I was really enjoying riding, but actually, it did take me a little while to really get back into the groove. And for me, I just had a few aims, sort of corumbrid being one of them. And that thing really helped me sort of get back into the swings of normal event in life, which I must say, if anyone is heavily involved in venting, you do realize, especially on the yard, how busy it can get and how many hours you do at certain periods in time in the year. And I mean, we are just literally at that point, we were just coming in and out and then out and trying to get other things done and get your training in and then get to another show. And it really is quite flat out. So it's actually just trying to get a breath within all of that, which was quite difficult. But yeah, definitely having different aims coming up later in the year, burly, blemms, blares. It's all been, it's sort of all helped get back into the system in the swing of things, really. - It's gonna be a busy final month for the year as well. Obviously, we've got a couple of weeks now after the show goes out pre-Lelion. I just want to actually pick up on kind of the Olympic team and the horses that we've talked about because Gerald Dublin, who was obviously your Paris ride, was fifth at Lelion in 2018. We've talked about Toledo, who was brilliant and took the individual silver in 2014 when he went to Lelion as a seven-year-old. You've got three seven-year-olds in the field, but yeah, you know where this is going, home, don't you? There'll be 11 come LA. How much go through your mind at this point? Because obviously, to build the horse up to the Olympics is what, six, eight, 10 years, sometimes longer. It's an unbelievably long process. So at what point do you start thinking about the next games? - For me, it started already. Like you say, we've got three seven-year-olds. There's a lot that happens from now to then, like you said. There's many, many years. Many shows, many things that can happen. But they're three quite different ones. So like, Shanda Arnold, your ginger ninja, he's really formed the most amazing Bond and he's a complete freak, I must say. What he can do in his body is unbelievable. His fat work that she has been incredible. His jumping's been amazing, but sometimes a little bit lack in concentration and his cross-country's amazing. So then Quintus, who's a lot bigger than the others, but he's very rangey. And if you ever watch a go-cross country, he's really light on his feet. And then you've got Maestro, who is sort of an inverse economist on the modern day event horse. Small, black, pretty, light, flies around, great show jumper. So I mean, yeah, I'm very, very lucky, but it's not just them. We've also got sort of like Isa, who's 10 years old, who will be 14 for the games, who's just gone and jumped amazingly and gone amazingly around Blenheim. So you've got to think of all these things, but so many things can happen. You don't want to lump everything into a basket like last year really showed me sort of having sort of a few injuries. And it can happen very quickly in some years, just like near years. And sadly, he just got hit on the chin and moved forward. But yeah, so definitely having a team of string and the venting forever evolving, like all sports. So you've got to be able to have sort of that team horses to be able to adapt to it. - And actually it's a huge shout out to the owners that are supporting that journey as well, because Deid you, Johnston, is it, I know involved in the ownership of Quintus. You've got Fred and Penny Barker, who also own Toledo Dukerza or Partone Hymn and they're involved in Maestro, then Chantal Arnold have been also a Lambert. So they also own JL Dublin alongside Deid you. So your two Paris horses split between the ownership of these three horses as well. Like there is a huge investment, a huge kind of time emotional journey for the owners to go on as well. And actually both events like Cornbury, like Leleon are a massive part of their owning experience as well. - Completely and like I say, if we take it back to Cornbury very quickly, it's a massive thank you to the whole Holden family and everyone or whole team at Cornbury. I mean, for an owner's perspective to have the owners tend to enjoy it, the live streaming, it really is very, very special I must say it and the owners appreciate it. But like you say, like it's a massive investment for the owners in time. Like for example, if we took Dublin or Toledo, those guys have spent so much time and hope for these incredible horses. But then behind that, there's hopes and dreams of these younger horses and that's just as exciting really. So yeah, it's a huge, huge thank you to all moons that really support me incredibly well and also to all my sponsors. And sort of for me, most importantly, the team at home 'cause actually without them, there's not a chance that any of this could get even close to being as good as it's been. - And a new baby on the way at the end of the season. How is Harriet as well? - Harriet's very well, she's still working. Yeah, it's coming around quickly, I must say. Starting now, we're starting slow down. I finished all, I finished British eventing this year. So I've just got Lee on and polar. So I've got a couple of weeks at home, working with the horse at home and slowly coming around to realisation so I've been in my own world of eventing bubble about like, I've got a lot to learn about babies. So yeah, it's coming around quickly. - And to give you an insight this, Tom and I were meant to record this yesterday and I managed to miss the school bus with TAB, had to take the baby out in the pouring rain, drive myself to school in the car and then lose the car keys, which I thought I'd left at home, but actually I'd sent to school with my first child and then obviously was stranded in my car with outside car keys. So Tom, you'll be fine, you'll smash it because there's a long way to go. It's fine. - There is a long way to go. But like I was saying to you this morning, we managed to exact same thing and I set the parrot off my car and the keys are still in my pocket. So I mean, we haven't even got a baby yet. And then we're in something for a few problems. - It's all good. Just a quick word on pay, what's the plan there? - So we've got real quality, he's been going incredibly this year. So I must say, I'm really looking forward to it. Obviously, he's ridden by piggy a couple of years ago. I did blame him on him last year. Sadly got caught up by what only could be described as a winning tunnel at the moonlands when I was going around on that storm. But you know what, he's been amazing and really, really looking forward to it. I think not that I know, but I roughly can gauge roughly if some very good horses go down to pose this year and it's gonna be a heck of a competition. But yeah, Norris is pretty special. So really, really looking forward to that. - Norris is still the best stable name, I think I've heard. Look, Tom, best of luck for the rest of the season, best of luck at Le Leon Ampo and for impending parenting adventures as well. We'll look forward to catching up with you soon, but thanks for coming on the show. - No problem, thank you very much.
