(upbeat music) - Hi friends, welcome to the Savvy Cast where we'll talk food, family, beauty, health, relationships and more. Join me for conversation designed to help us live our best and savviest lives. So grab a cup of coffee and let's talk. (upbeat music) Hey friends, okay. Saint and I just got home from Auburn and he played a podcast that he was just on how to land a job and nail the interview. And I said, saying my followers have kids, grandkids who will soon be embarking upon their career. So do you mind translating some of what you did in the business investment banking world to the general realm of job interviews and getting the job? Because Saint, you've interviewed how many, how many people would you say you've interviewed? - Well, I'm getting pretty old, but thousands, thousands. We probably hired a thousand since I started my career. So have some thoughts on it, but if it can be useful for your followers, I'm all in. - Yeah, and when I was listening to this, I thought this would have been something I would have loved to have been able to share with my daughters when they were in high school because the job prep basically starts and you said in junior high. - Yeah, junior high. And hopefully we, I shared this with our daughters to think about it and look at it, but I'm getting more and more convicted. And the podcast that Jamie heard was one I did for my industry in finance and investment banking, but Jamie's thought it would apply to her followers, the grandkids and children. And even those at our life stage, if you're trying to get a good professional job. - So Zane, just where, let's just start from the beginning. You've got a child in junior high and you know that you'll blink your eyes and they will be trying to get their first job. What are some of the things we as parents, grandparents might need to be thinking about now to help them be competitive and be prepared to try to get a job? - Yeah, no, perfect. And some of this is common sense and I'll apply to our world. We have a lot of internships. And again, we know that making a living in a job is not the only thing, right? But it is truly important. And I can tell you with the young men that I work with and try to advise, I see more stress around these young men in college worrying about their first job. And some of them didn't prepare. So as you said, first thing, really getting your right professional job, that first job that really matters in your career starts when you're in junior high. You really need to start thinking. I hear people say, oh, your GPA is not that important. Whatever job you're looking at, your GPA is important. What you make on your standardized tests, it is stuff that employers look at just to see if you have a discipline about you, if you have an intellectual motor. And so I think, Jamie, what you're doing in junior high matters, whether that's being in a speech contest that you can show in your resume, being in a band, we know in our world, if somebody's a musician, they're more of a system thinker, they're very smart in the software engineering world. They think that as well. If you were in sports, I think that's important. I think that's probably overrated. But if you did a hard sport, and we know that you were focused on discipline and character, that's also important. So think about that resume in junior high, work hard. If you're an Eagle Scout, I'll talk about that. That's very cool. If you've gone on mission trips internationally, and we know that you have a good worldview, that's important as well. So it starts early. - Well, and I'm gonna say we went to Auburn this morning because his dad was a guest preacher. And before the sermon, these children were bringing everyone, the communion cups, and they were serving. And they were probably six, seven. And I thought they are learning to serve. And that is something that sticks with you forever. And I was little, I did this, whether you're an altar boy or whatever, those little things matter. So Zane, you are in the investment bank world, but we are going to make this apply to any job. We have owned a snow cone business. Zane has owned how many companies before this? - Three or four. - Three or four. So regardless of what type of job, I think all of this will be helpful. So starting in junior high grades matter, and your activities matter. So Zane, just start telling us about some of the things that maybe we wouldn't think of to just instill in our kids. - Right, and again, I do see a lot of people right now saying that college doesn't matter as much. I will agree college education is starting in certain industries not to be as important. But if you go to the right schools, that is the first screening mechanism. We're like, they got in a good school. They had really good test scores. They did a good job in a hard curriculum. I'm going to tell you that still matters. I do know a lot of people that have started businesses and did amazingly well, or even the careers that didn't even go to college. Yes. - That's right. - But I would still say college matters, especially a good college, but a hard curriculum. This is not popular to a lot of people, but if you don't, if you go to college and don't take a challenging curriculum, it's going to put you behind somebody that wasn't an engineer, or wasn't an accountant, or that did math, something that was a little more challenging. So I do think college matters if you want certain jobs, but then it becomes less and less important as you progress into your career and show that you're really adept. So I think preparation college matters, test score matters. Then in most industries nowadays, and I would say in about all industries, get an internship. Hopefully you can work some in a high school, have a high school job. Maybe even a college job, a lot of kids now, they say, "Oh, I'm not working in college." I'm telling you, it's impressive when we see kids that have college jobs, but please have an internship. I was telling Jamie in our business, if you don't get a good internship, you're not going to be working for an investment bank. And that internship is typically between your junior and senior year of college. And that starts, you start working on that your freshman year to find that internship. Our little bank had about 1,200 people apply for our summer internship. We hire six of all six people that typically intern for us. We offer jobs to all of them. And the people that interview those people, Jamie, are the analysts, just the people, I don't interview those interns. It's the people right above them, the 24, 25 year olds that are analysts and associates with our company that interview them. So internship, internship, internship, and whatever your child's doing, your grandchild, if they want to be a fashion designer, try to intern, but somebody in fashion, they would be a landscape architect, try to intern with that with people like that, because employers want to know that you've had exposure to that industry, you know what you want, and you were intentional enough early to get an internship. So first of all, internship. Interns, did they expect to be paid these days? Right, one. Most people offer to work free, and I would, too, in our industry, and like in legal, a summer clerk, we're going to pay, and we're going to pay them well. And we want to pay, because we want to add to them a lot of value, but they're also going to add a lot of value to us, even when they're an intern, because we've got a very formal program. Now, in some businesses, they might not be able to pay, and it would still be worth it to have an internship, but a paid internship. Jamie, that was a good question, is better. And where did I find out? Is there at a college, maybe, that does not have a big, great list of interns? That's probably a problem. You need a university that in a certain program knows the industries-- - And they're connected. - They're connected, and these professors can get you to help you with internships, but research, research, research, get an internship. If I hadn't had my internship, and I was in like sales and marketing and software engineering with IBM, it affected my whole career. If I had not had that internship by a wonderful neighbor that helped me get it, I don't think I ever would have worked for IBM and ever gotten to start my own company. - Well, in a like one minute snippet, can you explain how, guys, he's an investment banker, but he did not take the traditional path, and some of your kids or grandkids may not take the traditional path, but tell them how you became an investment banker. - Right, and I did work for IBM for 12 years, which is really where I got trained. I got that job because of an internship. IBM really blessed me, and they ended up investing in my company. I left IBM with a product that we invented at IBM, and they really invested in me, and I started in the business world, raising capital around my own company. So I was a little different in my career path, but that first job is what matters, y'all. Now, again, some of this won't be popular, but it's true. Your first job matters a lot, because here's what you have to do. You have to get a promotion at your first job, and that tells an employer, you're somebody special, 'cause those people knew you very well that hired you. Did you get a promotion there? Then you're kind of set in your career, but that first job, Jamie, is important, that makes the internship very important, and get a promotion at your first job. I used to tell my daughters, and again, they make their own decisions on this, get a promotion before you leave your first job. - Is there a, like, an unacceptable length of time that you would leave a job before going to your second job? - And there can be situations that I don't know if you're being abused or whatever, but fight like crazy to keep your job until you get up. - 'Cause longevity. - Right, and like in our world, that can be an analyst to a senior analyst, right? It can be an assistant to a, you know, first year, whatever, whatever the title is in that role, but try to get a promotion, because that does more than any reference you'll ever get, anything, because your current employer will not give you a promotion unless you're adept. - Okay, saying what about what's your, you've landed an interview, wherever it is. What are some things the interviewee needs to do to stand out, 'cause there are probably tons of other applicants? - Yeah, these good jobs, especially out of college, they're a lot of applicants. A lot of things I see done wrong, but let me tell you the thing that most employers, even when I was at IBM and hiring people for IBM, we're looking for, we're looking for what I call a business triathlete. Okay, and this could be even if you're in fashion design or home decorating or HVAC, we're looking for triathlete. And that means somebody, these three things, it's very competent. We need you to be competent. If you're not good at anything, that's a problem. Now, we can train you, but you've got to show us somewhere in your history that you've been competent at something. That's the reason I want to see your resume back from when you were in junior high. Are you good at anything? So, first of all, be competent. Secondly, I want you to have communication skills. Now, we all have different personalities. We have a lot of introverts, a lot of people that are super bright, but that might be a little introverted. But let me tell you, you need to be able to write a coherent email. If you can't write and speak an orally talk, even if it's to a client or prospect, if you're going to a house to work on a roof or sell a roof, you've got to be able to communicate. So, please be competent at something, be a good communicator. And the third thing is, have some subject matter expertise in character. Please have some character. Please do what you say. Please show up on time. It's amazing you hear this all the time. If you just show up on time, y'all nowadays, some of the kids we interview, the good ones are unbelievable. They're character, they're empathy, they're listening skills, they're questioning skills. But let me tell you, I see some kids that are awful on some of those soft skills. So, have character and while soft. - Some that come to interview for this. - Yeah, some that come to interview and you're like, "How did you get in here?" You're not asking. - What are some things they do or don't do? - The bad things that they do? - What are some things these interviewees do wrong? - These are such dark kids. - Now, I know you're not doing that for interview, but you're like your analysts are telling you, you know, they were struck because of what. - Yeah, but young kids, a lot of them, I'm not doing, we're not doing those interviews, but I'll tell you what they see. Number one, it's all to do with preparation. Do not go into a professional interview and not have a PhD in the company you're interviewing with. With all the tools out there, with AI, with OpenAI, with Claude, with a website, go and understand that business. There's nothing you can do to make yourself more interesting to me and our people than to research. And whoever you're interviewing with, research 'em. Research 'em. We all like to know somebody researched my company and what we do. So, I see kids set themselves apart and did research and ones that don't and kind of like are even confused. And I'm not even really sure what investment bankers do. That is a real problem and an automatic no. - 'Cause you know you would have to spend a lot of time on the front end just getting them to level. - It shows me they're not very serious if you're not gonna research and their questions aren't good. The other thing have amazing questions to ask that company. They're not just interviewing you, you're interviewing them. If you're the kind of catch you should be, you should really be interviewing them. So, ask them some really thoughtful good questions. Also, get prepared with older people that have interviewed a lot of people. Certainly, these young people and their network have family members, uncles, grandads, grandmothers, aunts that have good jobs in the interview people. Talk to those people. I know one of our daughters did test interviews with Bobby Hewitt, one of our friends that had interviewed a lot for sales positions and medical positions. I've then test interviewed you. - Can you imagine going in front of a crowd to give a speech and not practicing? - I would do mock interview. - Mock interview are going out in an athletic event. Oh, I've never practiced. I'm just out here, or I'm coming out here singing a song or playing in a band. We've never practiced. So many people go on interviews and think they're gonna wing it. It shows up, Jamie, when you're winging it. And then this is common sense. Don't worry about overdressing. I get kids all the time to walk into my office in their own suits. You know, and shoes and all this for their interviews. Our analysts and our people, you know, dress kind of just business casual. You know, like a shirt like this or a polo. - And they already have the job. - Yeah, exactly. Do you think we're upset with those kids for overdressing? I don't say, "Oh, I'm so sorry you wore a suit." I don't wanna know that they're taking this serious and they're put together. You know, people say, "All attracted and this shouldn't matter "in a job." Can I tell you something, it does matter. Now, not, you don't have to be beautiful, but you have to be-- - Well, Graham-- - Well, Graham-- - And take some pride in the way you look. I don't want you representing my company if you're sloppy, because how do I know that a sloppy person, if I'm a client, is really gonna produce excellent work? So don't worry if you overdress. Please don't underdress. That is presumptuous. So be squared away, be prepared in your questions and the way you dress and be alert and have some energy. Y'all again, we all have different personalities, but don't come in there and be a dead fish. 'Cause then I'm like, "This person gives me no energy." I'm not sure they have a passion for life. How do I know they're gonna come to work on Monday mornings and say, "Man, I'm excited I'm ready to go and ready to deliver "a wow outcome for that business as clients." So that's what I would say, be prepared, be alert, have good questions, dress right, know the industry, research the people you're talking with. And Jamie, I think also research like crazy and people say, "Oh, this is wrong "to really use your influence to get a job." Let me tell you, it's not who you know, but it's who knows you. Please research and see if you have friends, if this child had a friend in high school and their dad or mom worked with this person that you're gonna be interviewing with, a call, a text. I can't tell you how many texts I get from people saying, "Hey, my son's best friend's interviewing you all "in a week or two." Just, I'm just telling you, you don't have to, I don't put pressure on you, but they're a great kid. Here's what I know about him. I went on trips with him forever. I watched him play sports for eight years. That matters. So do your homework and it matters. - What are, just give us a few questions that a child or teen who's interviewing for a job might ask an employer. But what would you say about that? - Yeah, how did you get in the business? Zane, you know, I've looked at this investment banking. Tell me a little bit about your path into this business. Would you interview me, if it's a younger kid interviewing you like in our world, you might be getting interviewed for an internship about 27 year old. Would you recommend your sibling or your cousin get in this industry? Just ask him some questions that are very thoughtful. And guess what? Interviewers like talking about themselves. Some of the best interviews I've ever seen, the interviewee hasn't talked as much as the interviewer because they're telling about their story and why they like the career. So study that person and ask questions. - Okay. Okay, well, let's say they land the job. They land the job. Fortunately, I think in your farm, you pretty much get nine out of 10 good ones. But there's some that are like, ooh, what are the things they can do to grow quickly, to be promoted quickly versus what are some things that are like, ooh. And I think I know one, leaving early, like being aware of the law of trying to, you know. - Yeah, if it looks like just a job to you and you haven't connected your future and your goals with helping your company win, that's gonna come through real quickly. And so some of this is common sense, but you'd be surprised. I see some very, very impressive young people mess up on some of this. I would say be interested, be energetic. Know how your manager, your supervisor, your team, the person that's over you know how they get measured and ask them, hey, how do you get measured? Because my job is to help our team win and help you win as my manager or supervisor. Really know what moves the needle for your team and your boss. People that aren't connected to that have a hard time. Also, the people that work with us and the industries I've seen as well that help other people. If you help your colleagues get better, we love it. Because any person that can help somebody else get better in the job is a geometric influence on our business. It's not just you're really good and you can get a lot of work done, but what if you can make five people on your team 10% better? That's a huge amplification. So we're looking for people that can train, that can mentor, that can make their team do better. It cannot say another thing that we'll think about that we're leaving. Carry your people with you. In a career, I tell everybody this and I think about it too. And one of my mentors always told me this, in your career, I can think back in my early career. Now I'm 58, but I can think about my first career at IBM. People that I worked with, that are still with me. I talked to them and helped them and they helped me. Some of them left IBM to work with me. The people in my first company 25 years ago still working with me, still helping me. Bankers that have worked with us early, that now they're private equity groups. They're helping us. My mentor says, carry your tribe with you. Don't burn bridges. Relationships matter. I always say it used to be in the economy, land, labor and capital. The rich people I had land, labor and capital. Let me tell you today, it is relational equity as well. Relationships matter, always add value, always give. You will be remembered, you will be recruited. People will come to you and say, "Hey, let's go start a company." Or, "I want you to come work for my company or with me." So, carry your tribe with you. It matters a lot. - Now, I do want to get to the very practical level, but we were discussing this in the car. I said, "Zane, if you have, say, you've narrowed it down to 20 out of how many of 20 that would interview at founders' advisors. How many would write follow up? Thank you notes. - Oh, great point. This goes back to something. Not many people follow up. Just an email to everybody that interviewed them, saying, "Thank you for taking the time to interview me." - Okay. - Okay. - Immediately. - Okay. - Immediately. If you don't have that email out within 24 hours, that's wrong. So, that's a great point. Here's the other thing, Jamie. You always told our girls this, a handwritten note. You know how many people write handwritten notes now? Not many. You, I get a handwritten note on a piece of stationery that has your name on it. That means a lot. If your interviewer gets a handwritten note, say, "Thank you for taking the time." Really appreciate it. I learned a lot. I would love the opportunity to work for founders' advisors. - And a lot of that mothers and grandmothers, that kind of thing, you have to order your writing papers early. You want it, you know, monogram, make sure the return address is there. Those kind of things can be done, you know, prior to this. I mean, the fortune 1,000 CEOs that have been, you know, real leaders that have written amazing books or companies have done well, you'd be surprised about how many of them say the power of a handwritten note to your employees, to your customers, especially nowadays. If you want to set yourself apart nowadays, a lot of kids don't even really know how to write and curse if it's crazy, but you write a nice handwritten note, that's awesome. - Okay, you said something and it made me even think, "I've got to get better at this." But you said that in an email, the subject line is important. And guys, I will tell you the subject line. - It's everything. - I sit there sometimes because sometimes it's hard, but you could, you want it to, 'cause are there times that you wouldn't read it if the subject line? - Oh, it's not good news. And most people, y'all like this, I get probably 300, 400 emails a day. You know how many I read? Not many. I look at the subject lines in my pain and I'm going to read the subject lines that capture my attention. Try to be brief. And I talk a lot, so I have to work on this. Brevity, if you can say a lot in a few words, that's super attractive in the day's environment. So, sure emails that are good in the subject line, very meaningful. 'Cause here's a deal. We need to be useful. My email needs to be useful and formative. Don't write an email that's not useful or informative. - Would you say that it would set you apart if your follow up was a handwritten versus email because I know a lot of kids. They think, I'll just email. - Yes. - But what you're wanting to do is stand apart. You want to have your head above the rest. So, you said that's a big deal. - That's a big deal. And the right kind of job, you've got a lot of people competing for it. And again, I think I said, we had 11, 1200 people apply for our internship. We hire six. And I mean, the people that we bring in for interviews, I don't know, we look very careful at their resumes and where they came from and everything. I don't know, I think we might interview 100. So, these are smart, good people. How do you stand, make yourself a little bit better? And guess what? You only have to be 1% better. The difference in being average and excellent isn't this much. It's this much nowadays. So that handwritten note can just put you a little outside. If it was a tie, one of these many people are both amazing. Whoever wrote the handwritten note will get the job. - That's powerful. Okay. Well, guys, I appreciate all of your comments. Sorry, we didn't get to answer any of the questions, but Zane, thank you. I think this is super helpful. And I'm going to be bringing on a dear friend of mine who does the most beautiful writing papers, business cards and Marie Cotton. She's fabulous. And if you're like me and you want to say, get something that's right, stay tuned. We'll do that. Now Zane, I want to know one more comment. And Zane, and I didn't really want to be on this, but now that I'm getting excited, let me tell you one more thing. When you get that interview, or your love one gets that interview, don't go into that interview without using Google or opening our Claude to say, what are common interview questions for my industry? Don't go in there unprepared. In investment banking, the case study questions, if you don't have any idea that we're going to give you case studies, you're going to be confused. You need to prepare. If I was going to try to be a sales rep for a pharmaceutical company, go on those search tools and say, give me a list of the well-known questions or themes or topics that people will ask. You're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage if you don't anticipate the kind of questions that are going to be asked. That was another thing. - Yeah, yeah, and I will say there are, I know, I think Judd and Ellie, there was somebody that we paid to help with resume. Okay, what about resume and all of them? - Oh, resume's huge. For your industry based on the industry you're after, please know what a good resume is and what an excellent resume is. And if you invest a little money to get somebody to help you, it's the best money you'll ever spend. If you get that awesome first job, and you get a promotion at that first job. - Resume. - Paying someone to interview you are getting friends. - They're just good friends, they'll do it. - The interview and the clothing. That is a big because to get, you know, one really nice suit and she. - And dress appropriately. - Squeeze, I know you've always said shoes are so important for everybody. - It doesn't have to be a designer shoe or anything, but please tie your shoes correctly. Please shine your shoes. Little things like that 'cause we're trying to figure out who has attention to detail, who doesn't be appropriate to the females that come in. Be appropriate to where you dress or the job. Be appropriate because that really matters a lot. - Well, be appropriate in the interview as well as in the job. There's a decorum and you don't dress for the job the way you might dress going out. - And you know, I know this is common sense, but please with our kids. And again, we're not perfect here. I had some issues with this when I was talking to our loved ones, be so careful with your social media. - Anybody that thinks employers don't look at social media, they're either, they're just ignorant, okay? We look at it. I don't want to see who you are online. And you can see class and judgment online. And guess what else you can see online? - Media see, media see. And we are not, we want to be associated with somebody that can't control who they are online. It matters. - Oh, here's a good question, Christine. How do you feel about visible tattoos? That is a great question. - Okay, great question. Anybody that worked for me now, thank you for saying that in our industry, I call it a scrub tattoo. If you're a physician or a nurse and you're in your scrubs, a surgeon, I would be careful having tattoos all over that you could see, but a tattoo is fine. I'll tell you, if our investment banker is, I ask one time, you know, curious who asked tattoos, we don't know, because most people, you know, cover them up. But I don't think it's a huge deal, but I'll tell you, if it was on your neck and all over your face, that's a huge deal. But a tattoo appropriately done, I'm just gonna tell you it's not an issue anymore. It might have been an issue a long time ago, but a lot of my investment bankers have tattoos. I just don't know. - And I would not tell them in the interview, probably. - Oh, no, no, no. If they were, if I had a sleeve tattoo, I would wear a long sleeve shirt. - Okay, well, I'm going to say if there's anything that I have missed, but just circling back, guys, while you have influence over your kids, I say one of the most dangerous things is social media, because it's not just what they are recording, it's what is being recorded and shared by other people that maybe they're at an event, social media is scary, 'cause it can be forever. - Yeah, and the other reason I like some kind of job in high school or over the summer, or worked at a camp, something, or in college working, we need some references of who you worked for. I'm fine to have your coach and your teacher, but at the end of the day, I would, in your band director, I want somebody you work for. They said their own time, they took their shift seriously. They took care of our customers. They cleaned the equipment before they put it up. I struggled with kids, even very kids, some of the kids in our industry were raised privileged. They went to Ivy League schools or whatever. I struggled when they didn't have a job, because it's like, even if your parents were super wealthy and you were privileged, they wanted you to have, they should've wanted you to have a job. If they didn't, I'm concerned if you really know how to work. - What is your opinion of a gap year where you just travel and say the world and then circle back? Do you think your, is that an advantage and your particular industry? I know, and some it may not matter, but what's your opinion of a gap year? - Yeah, if you have a gap year, make sure it's purposeful. I struggle with gap years that aren't purposeful. It's like, man, that's just sound like a vacation in Italy. We're gonna look at that, because really, we want kids that when you get out of school, you're ready to go to work. Now, if you can have a gap year and it'd be missional, if you're working for the Peace Corps or for a mission or serving people, I think that could be fine. Or if you wanted to be an investment banking and your gap year was around business as a mission, we would look at that, but it's really tough. It's really tough. You're gonna lose momentum if you're trying to get a really good job and you have a gap year. - And I think, possibly, still, a lot of interviews are being done by people of our age. And I know for me, for Zane, and for most of my friends, we work from the time we were 15 or 16, high school, I worked in college, you worked in, I mean, the work ethic of a lot of older people might look too much to a lot of kids today, but I think that comes from their parents. - But I do wanna get a myth, I wanna bust a myth here. Some of these, what do you call the generation now? The young people that are getting jobs, the 20-year-olds, Gen Z, maybe. Listen, there are some Gen Zs that are confused a little bit about, wait a second, I thought it's about me, me, me, me, not about this company that I'm working for, or this not-for-profit I'm working for. But let me tell you, there are some talent out there that is amazing. They have all these, they're competent, they have amazing character, and they're very, very bright. So I'm just gonna say the competition is still very, very tough for the kind of careers and jobs that you want. So I wouldn't take a gap here, I guess. - Okay, this is super helpful. - Okay, I appreciate all of you so, so much, and Zain, thank you. Until next time, you all have a fabulous rest of your day. (upbeat music) - Hi everyone, I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Savvy Cast. If you'll take the time to rate, review, and subscribe on iTunes, that would mean so much. As always, thank you for listening, and have a blessed day. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) You
