Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

First Down with Bennie Fowler, Week 4: Chiefs WR trade? Bryce Young to 49ers hot take! Vikings roll

Broadcast on:: 01 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

Super Bowl champion Bennie Fowler, a former NFL wide receiver, joins New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard for 'First Down with Bennie Fowler,' to recap Week 4 of the football slate @Bleav. Fowler and Leonard discuss the Kansas City Chiefs' top wide receiver trade targets after Rashee Rice's injury, Joe Flacco's meaningful presence in a Colts win, Bennie's hot take that Bryce Young eventually will end up on the San Francisco 49ers, Sam Darnold and the Vikings' ongoing roll and much more from around the league. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.

This is the week four recap edition of first down with Benny Fowler where we talk to a Super Bowl champion former NFL wide receiver and break down all of the top story lines and the action from week four of the NFL season can't wait to dig in there. I want to tell you first about my bookie my bookie sponsors talking ball with Pat Leonard and if you want to win this football season, you need to do it with my bookie. Use the promo code Pat's picks and if you click on the link in any of my bios or social media profiles and use that promo code Pat's picks, you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. I hope you guys keep rolling with those picks I had the bucks plus one as home dogs against the Eagles they rolled the Chiefs and the Chargers looked like they split there on that seven point line, the Chiefs coming back and defeating the numbers, but keep rolling with us we had the Rico Dattle props hit in the Thursday night game against the Giants for the Dallas Cowboys. So stick with us keep winning this football season on my bookie with the promo code, Pat's picks in my bookies 10th year anniversary game. Also brought to you by boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract loaded with anti inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. 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And now on to our interview with Benny Fowler, former Super Bowl champion NFL wide receiver. All right. Welcome back to talking ball with Pat Leonard. This is first down with Benny Fowler week four edition Super Bowl champion former NFL wide receiver beans. Join the program. What's up, Benny? Pat, what's good? What is good? How was the weekend for you? It was great. It's a little weird. I get this weird feeling when I'm not in an NFL stadium on a Sunday. The Giants and Cowboys play Thursday. I get to take in the games Sunday on my couch, but I just I just feel like I should be there. How do you feel watching the rain, the shitty rain jets game? You don't want to go to that one? You know, I had a funny feeling there wouldn't be many points scored in that one. And I already watched the game where the home team didn't score a touchdown at MetLife Stadium. So I figured I wouldn't make it to. Yeah, but yeah, we cover all these top story lines and games throughout the league every week. And I wanted to start with one about your Super Bowl pick this year, the Kansas City Chiefs. They're four no right now. Yeah, but Rishi Rice looks like he has a torn ACL. I mean, Pat Mahomes basically said on the field. We might be out without him the rest of the year. Hollywood Browns already out for the year. And Isaiah Pacheco is out at least eight weeks. My first question to you, Benny, is which wide receiver should Brett Beach and the Chiefs trade for? I'm going to give you some names and we can we can bat it around. But here are the names I came up with. Davante Adams of the Raiders, T Higgins of the Bengals, Darius Slayton of the New York Giants, Amari Cooper of the Cleveland Browns. I threw in Tyree kill just because that's funny because he's in Miami and they don't have a quarterback now. But that probably isn't going to happen DeAndre Hopkins from the Titans and Deontae Johnson from the Carolina Panthers, maybe even like a guy like Gabe Davis from Jacksonville. Those are the names I came up with. Do you like anybody on that list for what the Chiefs need? Am I missing somebody? I mean, in a perfect world to be to add Tyree kill back to the lineup. I mean, just somebody who's super dynamic, somebody who's super explosive who already knows the offense, who is familiar with Matt Nagy and also Andy Reed in terms of play calling. So when you think about that, that would be the ideal scenario. But I think, you know, what Kansas City is going to need. They're going to need a great pass catcher. And I were Brett Vich. I'd go after somebody like DeAndre Hopkins, somebody who's on the last year of Brazil, Tennessee isn't good. And this is his opportunity to win. And you talk about somebody who has reliable hands, somebody who knows how to get open, not always the cleanest route runner, but he makes, he makes it happen. And he's been one of the most incredible receivers over the last decade in terms of just how he plays. I think the bangles. I don't think the bangles would ever trade. Anything to Kansas City. So I think that's completely wiped out. I think slave would fit in really well with the Kansas City Chiefs, but at the same time, they still got Xavier worthy. They have some speed guys. They need a possession guy. They need an explosive run after catch person. Rashid Rice. He could catch those little spot routes as we call them or hitch routes and then, you know, go get the first down. He's super explosive. He was a great route runner. He could be a possession guy, but he also could do run after catch. So you need that they're going to need that element of what Rashid Rice really brings the table. Somebody's explosive run after the catch, even though DeAndre Hopkins isn't like that. He's more of a first down possession guy, but he's going to go make the play. Is Rashid Rice a little like Brandon Ayuk in his skill set? A little bit. I would say he's more explosive after the catch than B.A. B.A. is a route savant and as incredible routes, but I give the yards after the catch more to Rashid Rice in terms of just that explosive get up the field, get downhill. Yeah, it's interesting. I agree on the catch and run. I also, not to, not to dump on the player, but Sky Moore, then he cannot catch the football. Like, you know, he, he's not the answer. Clearly, they, and he was a guy, a lot of coaches in the NFL light coming out of college. And I remember, I think they started with him on punt return when he was a rookie. He struggled there. He just doesn't see it. You talk a lot about, you know, receivers catching with their hands versus their body. You talk a lot about neighbors last week. Sky looks like he struggles catching with his hands. They do have Xavier Worthy. You're right. Obviously, explosive. But even just the way, you know, Travis Kelsey, I know he had a bounce back game, but, you know, he's obviously showing the wear on his tires. And they just have to, they need to make a splash here. I mean, they need somebody that Patrick Mahomes can trust. And I know Mahomes unfortunately ends up, you know, a part of the Rishi Rice injury there. But yeah, I agree. Sorry. They'll be all right. I think you lose a player like that. You lose Hollywood Brown, things like that suck. Jujoo Smith Schuster can step up in the meantime. He can give you three to four solid games. But the biggest win for Kansas City yesterday wasn't just on the scoreboard. It was with Kareem Hunt. Now they have, you know, the rookie has put the ball on the ground twice and now Kareem Hunt comes back into the fold. Somebody who can catch a ball in the backfield ran great, ran behind his pads and was the go-to back in the second half and in that game went and drive. So that is a positive for Kansas City and Kansas City will find a way, any reading those guys, they'll find a way to add a couple of key pieces and keep the great people around Patrick Mahomes. I mean, this is where Patrick Mahomes will now have to step up in terms of his quarterback play, his evolution. We saw with Brady in Tampa Bay, not in Tampa Bay, but you saw it more so in New England. He'd lose a Julian Edelman for five, six games or the year. He'd lose a Gronk and he'd find a way. Great comp make plays and not only that, Belichick and, you know, I guess Belichick was a GM and their coach. They would find a way to give Brady other weapons. You think about a guy, what, Amindola? You had Amindola, you had James White, you, I mean, Rex Burkhead. You know, New England would go into a game with five running backs dressed. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's a really good comp too. It's kind of like the combination of, you know, we're not going to go out and make a splash. Because we have an injury, we're going to add a guy with a skill set that fits the scheme that we run. And that our quarterback is comfortable with, right? Like it's, it doesn't have to be. Like that's why I like you. I mean, Hopkins obviously has been a premier player. But I like you picking DeAndre Hopkins out of the guys we named because he's more of the, you know, it's not the Devonta Adams. And listen, that's a division rival. The Raiders aren't trading him to the Kansas City Chiefs, you wouldn't think. But you're not making the most expensive acquisition. You're making maybe the acquisition that is less of a headline, but more in line with, here's what Patrick Mahomes needs. He doesn't need more than this, right? Amari Cooper and DeAndre Hopkins are the people that fit best in terms of an Andy Reid type of scheme. Somebody who can make a play, Amari Cooper, good and open on slants, just his ability to get open at the line. I don't think Patrick Mahomes has had that in his career in terms of a receiver who has what Amari Cooper has at the line of scrimmage. So those are the people that fit. Sky Moore, incredible talent. I just don't think Patrick Mahomes is his type of quarterback. I think he would have to play. You could see his ability more in a with a CJ shroud type of quarterback. What going down the field rather than underneath? Underneath, but you know, a catch and run ball, like just, you know, a different type of offense, a different type of way to get him the ball. You know, he needs jet sweeps slash, you know, you make it easier for him, you know, so. I love the, I love the Amari Cooper fit. I know Hopkins makes sense, but Amari Cooper to me, you put him on the Chiefs the rest of the season hypothetically and he stays healthy and Mahomes stays healthy. You're talking about another Mahomes MVP, just with that piece, in my opinion. While we're on these receivers, Devontay Adams, listen, I'm not accusing him of anything, but. And I know they beat the Cleveland Browns, but the Devontay Adams pulls up with a hamstring on Friday, reportedly, according to Adam Schefter. Doesn't play in the game, supposed to miss a few weeks. Do you think he's played his last game as a raider? This, of course, came a week after Antonio Pierce called everybody out. Said there were guys making business decisions. I mean, do you think we'll see him on a new team by the trade deadline? Yeah, I think his time is kind of run his course there in in Las Vegas. I mean, he went there to go play with one of his really good friends and his that friend is no longer there. And I think it becomes tough because, you know, Devontay Adams is not only planned to try to win a Super Bowl and win at the highest level. I mean, he's also playing for, you know, solidifying himself into the Hall of Fame. And as, you know, I don't like to talk down on any player just because I was a player. So, but Gardner Menshew just isn't his type of quarterback. He played with Aaron Rodgers. You can't play Aaron Rodgers for 10 years. And then you have Derek Carr and Gardner Menshew as your QBs and Aiden O'Connell. Those are your type of quarterbacks. You're just not used to that type of pass. You're not used to that type of, I mean, he's probably coaching these guys up in terms of how to throw him the ball, which is something that he never had to do. So, yeah, I think it's time for him to go find a new home. The question is, where is it? Is it in New York? I don't know. I know they got some really good weapons over there, but I mean, they got a lot of things to solve over there. But you got to Mike Williams. You got to Garrett Wilson and you have Lazard. Where does Devontay Adams fit in? Because now he comes in and he automatically becomes a guy. Garrett Wilson is not going to be too fond of that because he's super talented and he is young and, you know, it's time for him to get his money. So, here's to see what type of situation Devontay lands himself in. I don't know if he, what home he could find. Maybe it is a Minnesota or, you know, a team that's like, "Alright, like, we're going to go all in and trade for somebody like that." So, that's what you do when you get a Devontay Adams type of person on the trading block. But yeah, good point. You kind of like a be careful what you wish for. When you want to change scenes and scenarios and you deserve that big contract, but also, it's also as a player. You have to think of the full context of the new situation. You're joining the situation. You're leaving. Right? Those have to be really difficult decisions. But I think, yeah, you're pointing to his next destination for him to thrive the way that he wants to needs to be with the caliber of quarterback that he is not getting in Las Vegas. That'll be fascinating to watch. Benny, one of the shifts to what I think is quietly maybe the top storyline of week four. You could agree or disagree with me. Wasn't exactly difficult to see coming, but Joe Flacco stepping into the Colts game at 39 years old and winning this game for them against the undefeated previously Pittsburgh Steelers. Now, I don't think the Colts are going on a Super Bowl run here or anything, but I do think that you look at Anthony Richardson, four touchdowns, six interceptions, three fumbles, 50% completion percentage. Flacco steps in goes 16 to 26, 168 to touchdowns, no turnovers, pro football reference. They have a staff, any called expected points added. And so that gauges how many points your, your side of the ball basically would add or take away based on all the data in a specific game. In week one, the Colts were plus 7.5 points expected points added, which was good on offense. They were negative 1.8 in week two, they were negative 2.9 in week three. In week four, they go to plus 12.9 with Flacco playing majority of the game Richardson is hurt. Flacco is in. Do you agree with me that this type of veteran presence on a team like the Colts that are still now sitting at second place in their division is a major and one of the bigger storylines of this week. I don't know if it's one of the bigger storylines, but, you know, it is something to always keep your eye on just because, you know, Joe Flacco did it with last year with Cleveland where they went on this incredible run. He knows how to play the game at the highest level. He's won the Super Bowl. He's, you know, he's at that point in his career where he has it. I don't give a shit mentality when he comes in like, I just love the fact that I'm still playing football. So, like, he goes out there and he slings it around. Everybody's happy. You know, Colts have a dilemma on their hand because when you watch Anthony Richardson play and throw the ball, you're like, holy shit, like he is incredible in terms of his talent. He hasn't harnessed it yet. And yeah, the turnovers will kill you. So, you know, Andy getting that win. That was a big win. And TJ Watt not having any sex because that's Joe Flacco was getting rid of the ball wasn't holding onto the ball. So, it is something to watch and some, you know, something to be interested in or interested in, just as they are second in the division, you know, if they can get a couple of games away from or take two games away from Houston, then, you know, we'll see, we'll see what happens because Tennessee is going to be 0 and 4, maybe tonight and Jackson bills 0 and 4. So the vision is going to be between those two teams. So we'll see what happens. Yeah, just to me, no, you're right. I mean, there's obviously, you know, the Vikings, the Ravens, things will get to definitely like bigger, more impressive victories and stories as far as like Super Bowl contenders go. Yeah, no, that's just fascinating to me because it's like, when these teams get put into positions where they have the young QB, who's clearly the future. And then a veteran comes in and obviously Joe Flacco is not going to be around very long, but it's a lot like what happened in Cleveland last year. It's like, hey, maybe we should just leave to Sean Watson on the bench because this is going pretty well. And then, you know, the guys back this year at quarterback, but everyone's like, no, we just saw last year, he wasn't the answer, he still isn't. Yeah, just an interesting dynamic there. And yeah, like you get like a guy like Michael Pittman gets a little bit more involved. I just wonder if they let Richardson sit a couple extra weeks here. If the whole team in the locker room's looking around, they're like, yeah, we clearly see we're better off, but. For sure. Yeah, find a way. They'll make sure he rests that hip. Yeah. Right. Good point. But yeah, turning to some of the, some of the most impressive performances. Let's go to, let's go to the Vikings. I mean, I guess we have to talk about the Vikings every week right now. They go to 4.0 31 to 29 over the Green Bay Packers and Benny. They've done this against, they beat the Giants and then they beat the Niners, the Texans and the Packers. What stood out to you in this game against Green Bay? Again, Kevin O'Connell, Coach of the Year, Lores, Assistant Coach of the Year. It's still makes me uncomfortable to say that Sam Narrow could be MVP candidate or top three MVP candidate. But when you think about watching a Minnesota game. Yes, Justin Jefferson is going to get his catches, his catches, which he had six for what? 85 and a touchdown. But then you have Addison getting involved with two touchdowns. You have Aaron Jones getting involved. Everybody is, everybody's touching the ball. And that makes that offense hard to stop. And similar to when San Francisco is firing on all cylinders, you see Kittle, you see Divo, you see the running back, you just see everybody doing well. And it's the same offense. They run the same offense. They're saying West Coast, Shanahan offense, those off play action, and everybody is touching the rock. And when that happens, your offense is explosive. What they do have, which makes me want to buy stock in Minnesota, is that their defense is playing incredible. Now they let up in the second half of that game. But what Flores is doing in terms of confusing quarterbacks, the veteran presence that they have with Harrison Smith and Stefan Gilmore and the people up front. They just got a really good team right now. They have a really good team. They have chemistry. And then once you get, you know, they're at what, four and O right now. Yeah, once you start to believe, then you take off even more. Now we'll see. I heard Bill Belichick say this and I totally agree with his comment number one because he's, you know, just these best coach of all time. But I do agree with this comment. We have not seen this team have to come back in a game. So if they do get down in a game, what does that really look like? And this offense to me isn't built to like, oh, if I'm down 14 or if I'm down 10, you know, in the fourth quarter because it's so built heavy on the run and play action. So we'll see that. But in terms of the first quarter of the season, Minnesota looks like a real contender. And I don't know, Pat, are you buying their stock? I am. You know what stands out to me? And I don't know where they would go to get this. But maybe you have a better idea of the specific names that would stand out. I was watching that yesterday and just as an amored uncomfortably so with Donald's continued play and they're winning. I'm looking at this and I'm saying, do they need to go and get a backup quarterback right now? Like, because if he gets hurt, they have Nick Mullins as the next man up. Everything will look different. And I, you know, listen, I know he could turn into a pumpkin sand d'Arnel next week. So, you know, maybe this is just fleeting and it's not going to happen even with Donald. But if I'm O'Connell and Flores and Questi Adafomensa in Minnesota right now, this looks to me like we're for real right now. And so I would not leave myself open to like what the Jets went through last year, right? Where it's like, hey, we really don't have confidence in any of our backup quarterbacks, but we love our number one and then your number one gets hurt and you say, wait a minute. Remember that conversation we had about a backup, you know, I do buy stock in them mainly like you said, because I think even if you anticipate what Flores is throwing at you defensively, I think they're talent plus his aggressiveness and his multiplicity or his variability. There's enough of all of that to catch you off guard for a good portion of a game. And also like you saw him in Miami too, Benny. Like, yeah, clearly he didn't treat to a very well personally and two, I hate his guts and, you know, all that came out. But that team that he coached in Miami played their asses off for him. Yeah. And like, you remember they won like six in a row, the year, the year he got fired, they won six in a row with a team like you probably named two guys in the defense. Zero. Right. And they really didn't have much of an offense either. And so I, you know, I think there's a lot, you know, there's a whole discussion to have about Brian Flores and what head coach he could be next to all that. But I think his presence there, along with how great O'Connell has been at scheming up and at developing Donald, makes them as for real as the talent they have. What kind of quarterback could they go get though? That's the question. Like, who's out there for them to be? Hey, we're going to trade for a backup QB right now. Yeah. I mean, like, you're not going to, I would think you're not going to be able to get like a tie rod tailor off the Jets hands, for example, because the whole reason he's here is, you know, what happened last year with Aaron Rodgers. So I wouldn't think they would be excited. I mean, you know, if Drew Locke isn't going to play here like he thought he was in New York. Can you grab Drew Locke off the Giants? I mean, could he be Sam Darnold for Kevin O'Connell? You know, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how much of an upgrade he would be on Nick Mullins. I mean, we, we saw Nick Mullins. Like, we saw him last year with Kevin O'Connell, and I think they lost a game to the Raiders 6-0 at home. Were they either 1-6-0 or lost 6-0, but it was one of the more ugly displays of football we've ever seen. I mean, other than with Addison, Hockinson, Justin Jefferson didn't play a lot last year. It could be totally different. Naylor is a totally different player as a second year player. That's a totally, it's a totally different roster. And Aaron Jones is the running back. Nick Mullins could be a different quarterback with this type of system with all of these pieces. I mean, other running back for minutes out of last year, Addison, like, no, that's not Aaron Jones and Madison or whatever his name is. That's two totally different players. Yeah, that it. I agree with you. That's a huge deal. Like the Aaron Jones edition, it was even week one when the Giants are about to face them. I felt like the thing people were not talking enough about was Aaron Jones being on the team. You know, you had just watched him torch the Cowboys in the playoffs for three touchdowns and did whatever he wanted. And that was against the Cowboys team that ran through a lot of the league last year. I agree, especially with the way O'Connell coaches and the offensive kind of scheme and how it relies on the run. I think he's as big of an addition as anything. That's a fair point with them being healthy. Could it look different with a guy like Nick Mullins? Other guys I'm looking at as we, as we discussed this just perusing what the heck could their options actually be. Mack Jones is sitting on the bench in Jacksonville. That would not be my choice. Just saying. Yeah. Bryce Young obviously has been benched in Carolina. And then you also have, there was somebody else who just stood out to me as I was looking around the league. I mean, a guy like Davis Mills from Houston. You know, but no, no one. No one jumps in Mullins. Yeah. Hot take is that Bryce Young ends up in San Francisco next year as a record. Get a quarterback resurgence really teach him how to play the game. No pressure on him. Go to a situation like that. And then you find out that Carolina is who we thought they were and they played exactly like that yesterday. They're just a losing organization and they were all hype last week about that win. Now you have to play a decent team and you're, you're the same team. Benny, how big of a deal is it for some guys to just get a change of scenery? I mean, Donald again, an example of that. But is that, is it that human element, a huge part, sometimes of players careers turning around just fine, just getting out of a toxic environment and into a fresh start. Yeah, I think when you think about a Sam Darno, it's hard to play in New York. Number two overall pick coming from USC and, you know, think that he's about to come in there and save him, you know, horrible head coach and not a great roster around them. Yeah, that can, you know, make you question your ability and then you go to San Francisco reassurgency year and then you go to Minnesota, but like Kevin will kind of actually believes in you and is talking to you as a coach. And then here you are, no different than, you know, Brock Purdy coming into a great situation. Brock Purdy comes into a great situation. And they find out right away, like, holy shit, you can play, and then they play him. Right, you got to, you know, that's a great environment. I think about the environment that I came into in Denver. It was just a great environment. He was a player in layered environment. And it was all about winning. I mean, we were going to have our fun, but like he was serious, but that's a great environment. And then when I go to places like the Giants or, you know, when I went to Chicago, right out of free agency is like, Oh, no. Like I can see why you guys don't win here. I can see it right away. It stands out. 100% just the way the building set up, the way people walk around there, the way things are getting done, the way things are communicated. Would it be oversimplifying yet to say that the winning organizations are in your vantage point? Like, you know, you're there nine to five or whatever it is for a full day. Would it be fair to say, correct me if I'm wrong, that the winning organizations seem more focused on the right things, whereas there's a lot of time spent in losing organizations on details that don't matter as much. Winning organizations. Yeah, they're always putting what's the most important thing right now and they handle that. And, and that's how they go about certain things and everything is all in on winning. I mean, the year we won the football, they traded for Vernon Davis. He didn't have a crazy amount of stats, but it was just like, Oh, no, we're trying to win. And my rookie year, we went 12 and four 13 and three. I can't remember. We had like 14 provosts on the team, but you can imagine what it's like for training camp and practice every day. I mean, those are some of the most heated practices. Flying around like I've never seen anything. I didn't see anything like it until I got to New Orleans. My first two years it was crazy. And then my third year in Denver was still super competitive. My fourth year we hired Vance Joseph. It was just that team that run his course that culture had run his course and Peyton wasn't there anymore. Then when I went to New Orleans and played with Sean, we got back to that, but it was the same, you know, the level of detail and the intensity of practice was way harder than the game was going to be. And it was, it was heated in there, but you love it. And that's what, you know, I didn't experience that in New York at all. That's very interesting. Those are the insights from you. I just, you know, you can't get anywhere else. The idea of you being having your eyes wide open so much to the culture of these buildings and how the preparation translates to what we see on the field. We have in a conversation with my sports editor at the Daily News about, we were just talking this morning preparing our coverage for the week and I said that I feel like over the last couple years, the quality of play is down in the NFL. And I find I noticed this Benny when, because like let's say I'm covering a Giants game at one o'clock on a Sunday, I catch up on all the games afterwards, but ready to pop the question and take advantage of 30% off. The Jewelers at Blunile.com have got sparkled down to a science with beautiful lab-grown diamonds worthy of your most brilliant moments. Their lab-grown diamonds are independently graded and guaranteed identical to natural diamonds and they're ready to ship to your door. Go to Blunile.com to get 30% off. Select lab-grown diamonds. That's Blunile.com for 30% off lab-grown diamonds. Blunile.com. I'm not able to sit there and follow every game because I'm zeroed in on what's happening on the field at the stadium that I'm at, like I'll be in Seattle this week for the Giants. But when I'm sitting there on a Sunday and the Giants play on a Thursday and I can watch all the games and follow them all, I'm not impressed by most of the team's operations. I don't see a lot of teams that jump out to me as all-around strong operations that are going to contend for something. I don't know if you would agree with that or disagree with that. My hypothesis is things that are reasons for that would be that teams can't practice as often. There's a lot of young coaches who are kind of learning on the job versus veteran coaches, so maybe some brain drain. I think some of the quarterback play is down, but kind of postulating a lot of different reasons why I just come away from an NFL Sunday where I'm like not many of these teams are any good. But what is your take on all that? The NFL wants scoring to be up. I mean, that's basically, you know, that would be one of my takeaways is that the NFL wants scoring to be up. So there's a lot more passing, there's a lot less emphasis on ground and pound, run the ball. You know, if you think about some of the games from 10 years ago, you know, you got a guy like a Marshawn Lynch in the backfield. You know, they're going to win 21-17. You think about those. You think about a Laveon Bell. You think about Pittsburgh and running the football. You think about those teams. I even remember the New England game. It might have been one of Mac Jones's only wins, but you think about the emphasis that Bill Belichick put on running the ball. I think they went up to Buffalo and they passed four times, but they were involved a lot of times. You just don't have coaches like that anymore. You have all these gurus who want to throw the ball, want to throw the ball down field. Yeah, and I think there's just a lack of, I wouldn't say a lack of, yeah, a lack of development and like real coaching and understanding of why you call certain plays. You don't have the, you don't have people like Andy Reed on the sideline on all the sidelines. You know, Andy Reed is like really looking at the entire roster, who fits in where. And then you have an Eagles situation where they're super talented, but it looks like you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what's this in terms of the way they call plays. It's just really shitty play calling. I totally agree with that point. Like the fact that Spagnolo and Reed, they coach every game to win that game, right? That's it. One of my biggest things of why I think Tom Brady was so incredible is he would do to, he would play quarterback to win whatever game that was. A lot of people, when they, they look at Tom Brady or they watch Tom Brady. Yes, they remember the down the field throws or they remember the years with Randy Moss. What I remember with Tom Brady and playing against him or even the Super Bowl that he came back against Atlanta in. He threw the running back, James White, the ball. James White had 15 catches. They're running back, but that was what was going to win the game. So you think about things like that, Tom Brady didn't have an ego when it came to like, whatever it takes to win the game. Oh, wait, we're going to throw the ball to Rex Burkhead and James White 25 times this game because they can't check the running back out of the backfield. All right, cool. Julian Edelman, you're going to have one catch and everybody's all right with that. Like, I think, you know, you don't have that type of coaching. Benny, James White, not winning the MVP in that Super Bowl is still, I think, one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. Yeah. Ridiculous. Right up there with Dante high tower, not winning it the year that I think Brady wanted that year too. No, no, it was Edelman. Edelman won the Super Bowl MVP the year that Sean McVay's Rams offense runs through the league. I will check in the Patriots, hold them to three points in the Super Bowl and the MVP is on offense. Yeah, I mean, it's ridiculous. Don't get me started. Look at Todd. Look at Todd Monk and I don't know if I think this might be a trend, but look at what Todd Monk and the Ravens did last night. They found a rhythm now after four weeks of the season of like, okay, hey, this is what we do really well. This is how we can dress some things up and look what they did to the Buffalo Bills. Oh, they ran the football though. It was like, oh, like, no, people can't stop this and this is how we're going to call a play. But that was a great, that was great play calling last night along with players making the plays. I, that's, I was about to pivot to the Ravens. So great segue and you're, you're 100% right. Like obviously Flores, fantastic week after week, but this Todd Monk in play calling performance last night against the Bills. He might, he might deserve the assistant coach of the week award for, for the play calling here. And it was, it was staying committed to the run. It was also Benny putting Lamar under center at times, right? Like this is something that they don't do enough. And like the touchdown they had where they put Lamar under center and they play action, Derek Henry on the run. They have to honor that because they can't stop it. And then the linebacker whose responsibility is for Derek Henry is two steps further upfield than he needs to be. And you just throw it right to 22 and he's in inside the pipeline for a touchdown. I just thought all the play calls too. They were so well married to the running schemes they were running. Yep. And then here. What was that? Justice Hill and what he did last night. I mean, just a dynamic. Now they got, you know, Baltimore knows they got a one, two punch of like somebody who can catch a ball, but also run the ball and then you have Derek Henry who can catch and run to. But like you said, marrying the play calls. My overriding question about the Ravens is. So here are their stats rushing yards for the first four games. So they're only two and two, but they had a hundred and eighty five rushing yards in week one, a hundred and fifty one in week two, two hundred and seventy four in week three against the Cowboys. And they backed that up with two hundred and seventy one against the bills. Ben, you and I both know what playoff football looks like. Like, is it very clear that as long as the Ravens stay relatively healthy? Like this is this version of the Ravens is going to be as hard of an out as any. A hundred percent. I mean, they were. I wouldn't say their Russian attack was like this last year, but, you know, they were clicking on all cylinders at the end of last year. The only thing in the playoffs is that, you know, if you come out and you get bombed a couple times, running the ball isn't as effective. So it really just depends. And if I had to bet on Spagnola doing that or playing the Ravens and I would, I'm always going to go with Kansas City, at least for right now. And you're still going to have to travel there. And if not, they, they have no problem going there. So, but right now with everything that Kansas City is going through the way Baltimore's running the ball, I'd pick them. You know, I was thinking about this to legacy wise. Like you mentioned legacy with Devonta Adams earlier. Lamar's legacy. I mean, if he just wins one, you know, like if he just wins one, the quality of player he is and the production he has and how they roll teams over like this, like the bills were playing as well as anybody in the league going into this game. They lose 35 to 10. I thought Josh handles the MVP up until last night. I mean, yeah, like this, you know, there's another, there's another legacy. Josh Allen, always there, but never over the hump, right? Yeah. Just fascinating how those things kind of change, change the history of the league and storylines in general. All right, wanted to wrap up by going over the NFC East. And I want to take your temperature on the whole division, but I want to start obviously with the Washington commanders. I thought their defense was going to get, you know, blitzed by Kyler Marion, some of the speed they had out there. Not only did they take it to the Cardinals offense, but Benny, Jayden Daniels and Washington's offense. I mean, what are they doing right week after week? And so we talked about, are you buying stock in the Vikings? In Washington, now, three in one plus 19 points overall for the season, Jayden Daniels looking like not only a rookie of the year leading contender, but an MVP candidate. Are you buying stock in Washington having a chance to win this division? Did I pick Jayden Daniels as my rookie of the year? I think he did. Yeah, I just, no, I'm not picking them the win the NFC East now, but he's a monster. And I think Cliff Kingsbury is doing a great job of calling plays, but I think some certain quarterbacks have it. Like when you watch Jayden Daniels, he doesn't look like a rookie in the pocket. When you watch him play, when you watch him throw the ball, he doesn't look like a rookie. So he's got a little bit of that CJ Schrod. You know, we'll see how the rest of the year plays out in terms of how well he plays the entire year as a rookie. But in terms of overall pocket presence, the way he stands in there, the way he's able to make some reads, the way he's able to understand the game and the concepts. You know, yeah, for sure, rookie of the year. I don't know if I can buy the stock in terms of them winning the NFC East. I still think Dallas could, you know, beat them. And we'll see about Philly. I'm not a believer right now. But you know, Saquan is still putting up the numbers every week. So, and I know he likes to have field days against Washington. But right now, Jayden Daniels, man, he looks really good. But this comes back to the coaching. You got a veteran head coach in Dan Quinn who knows how to galvanize the locker room, somebody who's been to a Sorbo and somebody who has a tremendous amount of respect around the league. Then you have clean Cliff Kingsbury, who can call plays in great place. I just don't think he was head coach material. And then, yeah, Dan, Dan's calling them the defense over there and you got an incredible veteran presence in a guy like Bobby Wagner. Things like that go a long way. Terry McClure veteran. You have some really good pieces and players, Austin Neckler, another veteran. You know, so, Zach Earth, another veteran, you just have, you got solid leaders in the building. And when you think about a young quarterback coming in there, he's got enough on his plate. But if you watch Zach Earth's in there who've been playing for 10 years, you, Austin Neckler, who's been a player, you see a Bobby Wagner in there, you see how those guys take care of their body, their minds, the way they approach practice. You have no choice but to fall in line with that. Yeah, yeah, no, that's a really good point. I like that Jaden Daniels through an interception yesterday. First of all, he threw an interception being aggressive, which, you know, it wasn't the wrong throw. It was just a throw he missed and through high. But I liked that he threw that and then Washington just kept getting the ball back and scoring. You know what I mean? Like, I, I like seeing that adversity. I like seeing that, yes, they were rolling, but he has a hiccup. He comes right back out. Um, he seems like, you know, I've heard this about Stroud too, like, Daniel's comes off a little bit like an alpha. And that should sound obvious because he's a starting quarterback, but not all guys are that. No. And I think your pocket presence comment speaks to that. You know, it's like a guy who everything that happens on their offense, even if it's just a running play to Brian Robinson Jr. Like everything reflects on him. And so he owns it, takes it personally. Um, I very much see that. So two guys sales that I'll break down real quick in terms of coaching staffs. Caleb Williams and Harris, a coaching staff from last year, but they're all coaching for their jobs. So they will call plays differently. They will act differently throughout the week. Dan Quinn's already been a head coach and he's been a successful head coach who comes into Washington, picks his guy and operates from a place of strength, as well as Cliff. Cliff, Cliff Kingsbury, two Dolly different situations. Same thing last year. Bryce Young, Frank Wright, they fire him middle of the season. Now, Bryce Young is without a head coach and like the turnover has already started. Houston brings in Demico Ryan, Demico Ryan brings in the offensive coordinator that worked under Kyle Shanahan. They're operating from a place of strength and know that, you know, hey, we're going to be here for at least four years and they're, and they're going to ask. And they're going to act and operate as if. So things to be just noticing it, just no different than in business. You, you have to hire the right people. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of kind of the leadership and the dynamics of certain situations, I know Collar Mary had an explosive game earlier this season. And not to take anything away from Washington, they earned this, but I thought their offensive performance was a joke against Washington in this game. I thought their plan was horrendous and Benny and Tyler's been criticized for this before. His body language stinks. Yeah. Like, you know, you can, you can see that in guys when you're playing CYO basketball when you're a kid. Right. Like it has an impact on a basketball game in a rec league. Yeah. I mean, you're a professional football player. You have a fourth down that doesn't get converted. You start hanging your head and you're down, I don't know, 17, 10. I mean, what are we doing? You know, what do you do? What do you see? What do you think? What do you hear in terms of that? I mean, what I hear in terms of that is that he's, he has, they have kept their, they have kept the organization behind him because of the owner. You know, so this all goes into the higher, the coaching high rings as well, Benny, where. You know, they hired Jonathan Gannon. Obviously they tampered to do it. The Eagles complained and Arizona had to kind of pay for that. But they hire a young coach who is up and coming and is also telling the owner what he wants to hear as far as like, yeah, I believe in Kyler, I can win with Kyler. And like quietly, you know, if, if there, if there were a cranky old coach who came in there and he had a lot of pedigree, but he said, yeah, I'd probably replace this guy in the long run or I'd give him a chance by probably replace him because he better change XY and Z. If the owner doesn't like to hear that, that's how coaching hires happen. And, you know, I don't know how long that leash and that rope is because I think kind of what you're alluding to here too is this has been a problem before, Benny. The biggest problem with me, there was the Humber clause in the contract to begin with, which was already a red flag, which with, you know, to me is like, oh, if we have to do this, I'm just going to hold out on this as long as possible. Play them on some one year deals from franchise tag deals and just kind of roll the dice because you're going to end up in the same situation anyway. Yeah, I guess the best way to put it would be if Daniel Jones acted after failed plays or during bad games, the way that Kyler did, he would get destroyed in New York destroyed. You know, like, and I was actually thinking that when I was watching that I'm like, this, this needs to be talked about and people need to notice this and cover it like he's an NFL quarterback because, yeah, he's in a different market. But if he were in another market, this would lead the shows. I haven't watched any of the morning shows on Monday morning here coming out of week four, but this deserves to be blown up. And I mean, I watched a quarter of this game, like play by play and then I watched all the different highlights and stuff. The quarter I watched, I saw him hanging his head three times. I mean, I mean, that's a quarter of the game. Yeah, but yeah, I'm going to say we're from your leader, at least, especially where the sea on his chest. I'm getting fired up. We'll get out of here with this. I know you're a busy man. The Dallas Giants game obviously were several days removed from it, but we haven't talked about it yet. I just wanted to say Demarvian over Sean, the linebacker on the Cowboys, I think is an absolute game wrecker baller. Love that player. I remember him back at the senior bowl. And then he was actually a pretty big injury for them last year. You think about their defense not showing up in the playoffs, but loved what I saw from him. But obviously not exactly a great game to watch. A lot of field goals. But what stood out to you about what the Cowboys are and what the Giants are in this game. Cowboys, I still don't know what their identity is. I think, you know, CD lamb showed up and made his plays, but I wouldn't say that the Giants have the most, you know, great secondary. So, CD lamb was able to do his thing. I think the Giants do have a great up front seven in Demarvian Lawrence. What an animal in terms of who he is as a player. Daniel is efficient, but he missed some of the big time throws that, you know, a starting quarterback who's getting paid the type of money he's getting paid should be making, and should be finishing the debought slay. There's a couple of passes where he's just got to make those throws and he's got to put some more on it. But, you know, I think the question is to me is he is he overthinking now. Hey, I don't want to make a mistake, which is a tough place to be in to play quarterback or just to play sports in general now is like. Hey, I'm not going to go for it because I don't want to throw an interception or I don't want to turn the ball over so. You know, it's a tough situation, but they ball call the great game plan Malik neighbors is a player and did really well. I mean, you know, some of the creative things coming out of the backfield. I mean, just tell me that you're not seeing literally a reincarnation of the first couple years of Odell being there in terms of, oh, put him in the backfield, or we're going to find a ways to get him just we were going to slants, and he's running through the ball he's making plays a guy. Yeah, I was talking to one of my buddies yesterday, Jayden height, that he won the belittin the cough. Oh yeah, John Hight. Yep. Yeah, one of the belittin the cough. How does he not play. So, Jalen said a couple times when we asked him about this last week because it ESPN reported off of him not really playing much that he had yelled out at a practice in late summer that if you're not going to use me trade me. Right. Right. So this is a guy Benny. They traded up in the draft to get him. They gave up a fourth rounder to go up in the third round to get him two years ago. He had a hundred yard game last year against the Patriots, but really was not consistently productive. Jalen now drops. He said to us twice that it's what Daniel is most comfortable with. In other words, Daniel's more comfortable with daddy's slate and then then me. But understandable. Yeah, true understandable and slate is also a better player. I mean, like he's a more well rounded, better receiver. Hyatt does not run the full route tree as well. And also, I remember this. I don't think this is an issue now, Benny, but I remember last year as a rookie, they started him in camp like with the third team offense. And what I had heard was that it was playbook stuff. You know, like getting getting his hands around a complicated offense. He's being asked to know all three ride receiver positions because he did play a lot in the slot in Tennessee, but they wanted to learn a lot. So I view it as all the above, but you know, this is a GM and a program that's trying to justify all of their picks if they can. So the fact that he's not playing, even with them not scoring touchdowns is glaring Benny. It just doesn't make any sense for him not to play. Regardless if he's learned, he can learn the playbook or not. If Kadere is Tony, who was struggling with the playbook in New York, finds a way to win two civil rings in Kansas City and they just find a way to get him the ball or call a set of plays where he can show his unique ability. Then I mean, that's a coaching problem. Yeah, I'm not saying he's got to play over slightly because I think slay can play and I think slay has continued to show his consistency. But you got it. You got it. I mean, why not have both of them on the field. I mean, that's just it's a lot of speed. Yeah, it's fascinating. I think another element of it is in a numbers game. So there's a lot of talk about the giant so long getting better. It is better in past protection than it has been like compared to last year where they literally couldn't function as an offense, but a they're still not scoring many points. They're averaging 15 a game of B. They're going a lot of max protect. So they're playing two tight ends, keeping them in or one tight end in the back staying in. There's a lot of like two man routes, maybe the tight end chipping and coming out as a third. Sometimes they're going 11 personnel running the three ride receivers out, but there's a lot of two man routes. And so he's just not getting on the field, especially because when they run a two man, it's neighbors. And then it's one day all plays over him as a catch and run guy, Slaton plays over him as an all around guy who can also go deep. And so Hyatt really is an 11 personnel receiver at best in this offense for the most part. And, but you know, to your point, I mean, if you want some explosiveness to your team and to your offense, even if it's a two man route, maybe give him more shots than he's getting at that right. At least a little bit. So it's fascinating. Dabel did make a comment at the end, because so the Hail Mary basically that Daniel threw that Amani or a warrior intercepted former giant. That was intended for Hyatt. And it was a very deep ball that he threw. It was under thrown based on where Hyatt was. Hyatt did not come back and get it. And Dabel made a reference in his press conference to like, yeah, we tried to throw it up there and see if we could hit jail and see if we could get like a contested catch. I think it was an illusion to like, hey, you know, look, we gave him a shot and he didn't do the right thing type deal. He's in chat. He's a Hail Mary. Oh, yeah. Let's see if you can do it. Let's see if you can do the right thing on a Hail Mary and then we'll see if we can determine more playing time. That makes sense. This is where we're at New York, Betty. This is where we're at. Hey, you're the best. Thank you so much for every week helping us break down the top stories in the league. This has been first down with Betty Fowler. We're also looking forward to enjoying some some Monday Night Football tonight and then rolling into week five with you. Thanks again. Appreciate your bet. That was first down with Benny Fowler recapping week four. That was a great conversation. Hopefully you enjoyed it as well. Remember we are sponsored here by my bookie. This is our fourth anniversary for my bookie and they are rolling out the red carpet for betters. Use my promo code Pat's picks on the link in any of my social media profiles and bios. And you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. 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I have zero blisters on my toes listers and that's because I wear bomb is the softest sucks underwear and t shirts that give back one purchased equals one donated now go to bomb is calm slash listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's BOMBS.com slash listen and use code listen at checkout. Bingo. All right, Phil. We're recording now. So it's live. Go ahead. Pick on me the way that you want to. Did I say that? I would say that to my son. And I mean, come on, man. Just go. This isn't CBS. All right. Be quiet for a few seconds. Why would people want to listen to the Sims complete podcast. Well, a couple of things. One, if you like to see sons pick on their father, this might be the place. If you want to see a place where the father just kicks he out of his son. This will be the place. What do you like about it, Matt? Ditto father, son dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together. And, you know, hey, it's an extension of what we did, right? Growing up. I was able to watch my father play football. Then obviously watch him as a broadcaster. And then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career. And, you know, hey, sometimes we're full of it. And sometimes we're, we actually know a thing or two. Well, we do do a lot of research. At least I do. You, you little spotty, but you know, you're, you hang in there. It's fun. I love doing this and it's been awesome. Sims complete. Check us out wherever your podcasts are available on the Believe Network. Appreciate it. See ya. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. [Music] [ Silence ]