Evidence Strong
Teaching Olympic weightlifting like a Pro - Erin Haff on coaching beginners
And she turned to me one day, and she goes, "Why do you keep asking me that I don't know the answer?" And I just said, "One day, one day you are going to look at me and you're going to have the answer." I said, "That's what I'm waiting for. I'm waiting for her to move into that associative stage." So that's my comprehension check. Hello, Arane, and welcome to Evidence Strong Show. It's my pleasure to have you. If you could please briefly introduce yourself. Hey, my name is Arane Hoff. I am a strength and conditioning coach and is also a weightlifting coach for about 32 years now, working with youth as high as professional athletes in a multiple of different types of sports, individual and team, ranging from high school to division one, and like I said, to a professional netball team here in Australia, actually. I've been part of several resistance training studies and peer-reviewed publications, book chapters, designed to examine the impact of resistance training on performance and have given many presentations, consultations, and work in the Australian Weightlifting Federation and the International Weightlifting Federation as an educator for teaching how to use weightlifting coaches, but also outside of the sport of weightlifting and how do you implement it in non-weightlifting competition? Have been appointed, was over 15 international coaching appointments for Australia. About eight of those have been of a head coach and at International Weightlifting Competition. So it's kind of where I am at right now and I'm teaching at Edith Cowan University in the master's program and structurally working with how to teach weightlifting and its derivatives for sport and for non-competitive weightlifting. It's all things weightlifting at this point. So, and very impressive. So today we'll be talking about the paper titled "Nationals, Tranks and Conditioning Association, Position Statement on Weightlifting for Sports Performance". So I interviewed all the first part of the paper where we discussed how to use weightlifting to coach in other sports, how to develop strength and speed and all this. So if anyone is interested, please go watch this one. It will be published by the time we publish this one. And today, Erin, I wanted to ask you all sorts of questions about how to coach and develop weightlifting tests. And we should start with the first thing which would be, in general, how to teach weightlifting. Well, there's two main pedagogical approaches that you can take that are most prominent out in the weightlifting world. One is called forward chaining or a bottom-up approach and the other is called reverse chaining which is the top-down approach. Now, there's proponents for each strategy or approach that you would want to use. But let's take a look first at what each one is and what it proposes to do and then we can kind of look at which one would be better. So forward chaining is where you take the skill or you teach the elements of the skill and the order in which that would happen in the movement that you're working on. Whereas reverse, you're going to do it in the opposite direction. So the main argument for working in a forward is that it seems more logical because it's how the lift is progressed. So if I'm looking at a carting that you want to teach how to pick it up off the floor, how do you take it from the knee? How do you take it from the thigh? How do you catch it versus in a reverse where we would go in the opposite direction? We start with a catch and work ourself down to the floor. So they say it seems more logical, which in a way it is, in that sense. They justify it in that this skill is not, it's important to have the appropriate initial movement to be proper off the floor to enable you to do the rest of the skill or the movement properly. The problem with that is that other problems can be potentiated from just that initial movement. So the skill can, as it becomes more complex as you move up the body, there's more room for error and we'll go right back around to that when I get to the reverse chain so you can see where I'm coming from with that. But as it becomes more complex, if it deviates or potentiates a problem and more errors, then you have a problem with the learning process as you complete those complex skills or try to. Performance outcome will not quite be as you probably have hoped. Therefore, it usually results in skills being executed in the initial stages really well. So that first lift off the floor is going to be really well because that's the first thing you've learned. But as you move up the body into more complex skills, that skill or those stages become, or the ability becomes more deteriorated and detrimental where you're seeing more weaknesses. This is occurring and fault in the process. When you reverse chain, which when you look at it in terms of how we learned in physical education, and I know we as a society and this is a whole different, you know, talk show, but the physical education has kind of gone a little bit off of a different path than what it used to be when I was in school. We learn a lot of things in our reverse chain. It's just a natural order of things. When we learned to shoot a basketball, we weren't taught from the three from the three point line or the free throw line even we were taught three feet away from the basket and learning how to bank shot off the backboard. And then you take steps backwards or way out and as it comes more complex. When I learned to play volleyball, when we were trying hitting, we weren't taught the approach and then how to hit the ball. We were taught how to hit the ball and then added an approach to it. That's kind of the things that we're looking at. We're trying to use what's what's already been proven to work in a reverse chain. And that's where, and you can ask and tell by the way, I'm talking that I tend to be a proponent of a reverse chaining method, but I think it's just the rationale for it is to provide lower complexity movements because we're talking about teaching people how to lift. So we're not talking about people that already do weightlifting and doing it for a while. You're trying, you're indicating that you want to talk about how do we teach somebody and a beginning, a novice. So you can have a novice can be somebody who is experienced in strength training, whether it's powerlifting, bodybuilding, whatever they do strength training, even for a sport. But if they've not done a weightlifting movement, then they are considered a novice in that movement. So to teach that movement, we need to start with a lower complexity so that they have in those early stages to develop the right base patterns and then add complexity to that. So reverse chaining provides that for you, whereas forward chaining does not. And why I say that is because if we're talking about the progressions, which I know we'll get into a little bit later. So I'll just cover one example. If I'm going from an overhead squat, let's say in teaching the snatch, and then I go into a snatch balance, the idea of when they catch in a snatch balance, they're in an overhead squat position, a position they've already trained. So they're familiar with it. They're comfortable with it. So that lads less stress, more chance for consistency and a better product and product in creating that. Yes, there's going to be a few other areas because it's a new skill, but the actual movement into that overhead squat is easier because they know it. Whereas if I go in the opposite direction, they're going to go from a snatch balance to an overhead squat. They're going to something very fast moving into a lift that they have no idea how they've not done yet. So you have two lifts that are unfamiliar versus reverse chaining, where you have a lift that's familiar and you're coupling it in with a lift that is unfamiliar so that there's a level of confidence going into that lift. And it's less scary. I guess you can think of it in those term to optimize adaptation while currently laying a foundation for more complex movements. That's what we're looking at trying to do. And while adding more tools to that toolbox will enable us to put a better outcome or a better performance outcome and create that stability we need when you're looking at building a competent weightlifting movement positives for reverse training. There's less interference to occur. Like I said, you're going in, you're not going to be stressed because you're thinking there's two movements that I'm on, or one that I'm not real good at, but I'm moving into another one that I don't even know. This is the opposite. I'm taking one that I'm actually I'm taking a movement I'm not really familiar with but I'm moving into a position that I'm comfortable in. So it's just getting through that initial uncomfortable movement part when you're adding that new skill into that older skill that you're already familiar with. So that's they're taking that interference out by going it in a reverse order. Does that make sense? Yeah. What I have found in my experience is if I work in reverse, it's more logic, actually more logical to that athlete, because they're taking they're moving into some human beings don't like ambiguity, most the time, especially when you have to physically go into something that you're not on. You've never done before. They'd like some degree of certainty. And by going in a position where you're going through lifts and adding something into something they already know provides a level of confidence and comfort and less anxiety, and therefore creates a better outcome in the long run, in my opinion. And so I see it also advocates on because it has been scientifically proven to be a little bit more object. Okay, so now we decided which approach we will use. How do we decide when we should move to another face. So how to in other words, how to chain the skills to get the lift. So you know an athlete is ready. There's kind of three key things. There's a lot of things that go on, but there's three key things that I look for when I'm coaching. So you're going to chain two elements together. You want to make sure that both elements are fairly consistent. You don't want to necessarily marry two exercises where one is super strong and the others like you can't even tell what that exercises, you know, when you're watching or trying to do, you know, or something, you want to make sure that there's consistency in both exercises before you pair them together. You want to demonstrate the fluency in those influences I mean is to perform without hesitancy or massive thought process going into the lift. If you've coached long enough, you can tell when an athlete thinking while they're lifting. And there's definite movement, a degradation of fluency within the movement, you can see them actually like thinking it's not like they're not trying. You just, they're taking it centimeter by centimeter by centimeter all the way up because I'm over analyzing basically. So you're looking for fluency in both lips, and that comes back also to that consistency. If they're confident and a majority of the technical aspects are consistently met, they will move with fluency. So you want to make sure that's also happening. So technical proficiency in both fluency in both, and then that they respond to instruction or feedback well when it comes to body position or movement, or even body to bar movement, or, excuse me, bar to body, which probably would be better, and that they respond to that because if they don't understand something they're not going to respond well, you know, they're going to try, but they might not actually have it. So if you're asking them to keep the bar close to their body and they cannot do it, that's going to affect the rest of the performance of the lift and ultimately the outcome. So then they're probably not ready. If, if one cannot, if they can't do it in one, but they can do it in the other, then we got to wait a little bit until that other one is a little bit more. They can respond a little bit better. And they always have to keep in mind to when you chain things together, there is going to be timing issues that will occur no matter what level you're looking at. There's going to initially be some tiny timing issues that go on because they're trying to put two things together. They're not just focusing on one now, and then going to another. They're trying to put them both together. So it takes a little while, and it might, and it depends, of course, on the athlete. One of the hardest skills I have found for a novice is to do a snatch balance, and that's not the heaving where you get to use your legs. This is where you just punch and sit, and it's all a timing thing where you go in from dropping under the bar into an overhead squat. What I've found is, for example, with a snatch balance. If I, if I want them to, and then they're learning it for the first time, we've gone through the key points or whatever, especially if I'm in an education setting when it's teaching in the undergrad. So I show them what I want, which is always important. Show them what you want. You name it so that every time they see it, they understand what it is you're doing. Or if you ask for it, they can recall after a time, they'll remember it's younger. They are the longer it takes. I usually get them to do, and I wouldn't do more than three reps. But this is the example I would give as saying instead of saying, okay, we're going to do a set of three and then correcting everything right off the bat because I'm seeing all these things go wrong. I give them like three or four sets of three, and I just let the first two sets. I don't say anything. I just let them muddle their way through it. And then literally nine times out of 10, about the third set, definitely the fourth, they're really starting to put that time being element together. But yeah, those three things are pretty much key. Technical consistency, fluency and proficiency, and effective response to any feedback that you are giving, but it has to be for both exercises are all three if you're changing three exercises into your complex. Awesome. Okay, we arrived at progressions and regression. This is your strength because you have an enormous experience in teaching so I'm super curious to hear how do you decide how to progress and how to regress with examples. That would be, I think, very, very valuable for all the coaches to hear. So when you're working again I work from a top down approach so I'm working the five phases of the lift I'm working from the fifth down to the first. So I'm going to work the retention recovery first, and then I'm going to do the second poll transition and first poll. Okay, so let's take, for example, because it's sitting right in front of me here I'll just add the progression in front of the snatch progression. So in a snatch progression in the recovery, we have the behind the neck press and an overhead squat, both are very controlled movements slow moving, easier skills there are strength skills by the way but easier skills to manage before we start adding speed by going into a snatch ballot. So if I've got an athlete and I'm doing, I established their snatch grip and we're going through the behind the neck press, and I'm seeing that there is an issue with mobility. That's when I start having a regression in that I will change the range of motion for them now technically we teach it to be a press from the top of the cervical spine or on top of the traps basically to full extension and then coming back down. There's an issue whether it's due to an injury, a past injury, or something they're dealing with where, you know, they're having problems with either a shoulder, the lap, the elbow, whatever, and then they can only come down and say to the top of the back of the head. Then we'll work that range of motion until and then on the side be doing things to help with the mobility issues until we can start getting the bar to lower back down and we can have other exercises in there as well to auxiliary exercises to help strengthen those areas. As we try to keep attacking that mobility issue, I tell anyone I'm ever teaching how to coach never ever change correct technical positions to accommodate someone's immobility or inflexibility. So if we have to change range of motion in order to get even just a partial movement of it, if you have someone doing an RBL and their hamstrings are so tight. I've seen this where they can't even get halfway down their thigh, then that's as far as we go until we can move and work on the side, all these things to get those hamstrings and lower back and glutes to loosen up so they can get that full range of motion in the RDL. I'm not going to change it and allow them to bend their knees or drop their hips in order for them to get the bar down to the proper below the knee position, because then when they do get mobile, mobile, and flexible or healthy if it's an injury, then I have to correct what we just spend weeks or months or sessions allowing them to do so that they feel like they can go below their knees and get into the proper depth of the position. The best thing you can do initially is change the range of motion if there's an issue there, but keep the correct positions that they need to be in hip height, back positions, whether it's straight, you know, don't allow it to round so that they can do something to get into another position. It's only going to hurt you in the end. You're going to spend way more time on the back end trying to fix what you allowed at the beginning, and it probably will not totally get fixed, because they're going to go back to what they know or what they've been allowed or what they've strengthened in the beginning. So that's going to end up coming back and kicking you in the butt, basically. So you want to make sure that it's done correctly from the get go regressions, for example. Well, I mean there's there's different ones in each of the progression tables that I put our figures that I put in there, you know, your snatch pole at the knee. When we're doing this science is pretty ambiguous, I think, in terms of they just say at the knee, they don't say where at the knee you're going so some people interpret that as above and some people interpret that as below. I tend to go below. I understand the merits of going above, but one thing that we're trying to teach as they come from the floor up is that they've got to wait to accelerate the bar till they pass their knees. So if they're always training knee positions above the knee, it seems like it's like that would be easy, they just push it out of the way, but when you've got loads or you're, you know, under stress or you're thinking about all these other things, simply just moving your knees back is not as simple as it sounds. So we, I, we, my husband and I coach team together, we train our athletes to pull from below the knee so that they're learning to wait that extra however many centimeters it is to get past their needs so they have to stay over the bar longer before they can start accelerating into that second pole position. So regressions, for example, if I have someone with a hamstring or a type back issue, which I've actually experienced myself that this was after years of already training. My regression from the RDL was to then take it from above the knee because going that extra little bit was putting too much stress on my back injury. So I understand those regressions, as long as I also make sure my athlete understands that it's that, and I wouldn't call it necessarily regression because you know certain athletes, you have to know your athletes pretty well some athletes don't handle the fact that you think they think that they're, I don't know, being treated with kid gloves and they don't want to be, or they're having to do something that nobody else has to do because of some inability so you have to be careful about how you address this with your athlete. But I'm always 100% honest with not saying other people aren't, but I tend to be 100% honest and I'll just say, look, we're going to go from here from now, because x y and z. And while we fix this other thing, then we'll get back to this. It's not a problem. You're not going to have any issues here. We're still working this. You're still going to get strong. You're still going to, you know, letting them know that this is all part of a plan and that it's not a deficiency for them or it won't become one. And that's a big issue when you do a regression is to make sure that they understand that it's just until we address an issue. And this issue is going to be done by doing this, this, and this so that they're brought in to make them accountable for the progression of this. We can progress when this gets better. So if that requires, for an example, an athlete to do mobility work outside of training time, then that's where that accountability comes on to them saying, if you want to progress, then we need to be doing x y and z, while these regressions are happening, so that we can get off the regressions and move into the progression itself. So if we could just for clarity go through how the progressions you would imagine go for snatch and for clean. Yeah. So in a snatch and clean your phases are the same. So you're going to have a full lift. So you're going to have a first poll, which is from the floor to scientifically speaking the floor to the bottom of the knee, or the bottom of the kneecap, then you have a transition phase, which is from that bottom of the kneecap up to the high five position, not necessarily the crease, but that's a whole different talk show if you want me to talk about that I will. But it is the high five position, and then the second poll to extension. So that is the high five to that full extension of the traps, and then you have a catch, and you have recovery. So the catch is where you're catching it in that half roll on the snatch you're going to be in semi squatted overhead squat position and then standing up is the recovery clean you're catching it in that partial squat position of a front squat. And then the standing up is the recovery. Okay. So to work those if we go in reverse order and we'll start with the snatch. So to work recovery. And then this goes in the order of the progression that we're actually doing. We're going to do a behind the neck press in the snatch grip, and then we're going to do an overhead squat. Okay, to work the catch is kind of the overhead squat, but more of the snatch balance. So we worked from a behind the neck press to an overhead squat to a snatch balance. So you can see we've gone to control to a semi control. Well, it's still controlled, but it's moving to a faster moving exercise. So we've prepped the snatch balance by giving those two controlled things to help them get ready for that speed. ready for that speed and its strength elements.