Out Now With Aaron and Abe
Out Now Bonus: The Wild Robot
[Music] We are now recording and this is Out Now with Aaron and Abe. I am Aaron as always, this is Abe. Hello, how are you Aaron? I'm doing well. It's been a busy but productive week. How are you doing? I'm doing well as well. I just get back from vacation and thanks for covering. I've heard that everything went swimmingly and including a lot of bonus content for everybody. But yeah, doing well, feeling refreshed. Yeah, things did go swimmingly and I'm glad you are feeling refreshed and that and you're mentioning all the bonus content. Here we are with more bonus content. Out now is a full podcast where Abe and I discuss it. It will be weekly. However, every now and then we have the special bonus episodes with the winner. It's one of our on commentary tracks. Totally different. This is our bonus episode where we're going to talk about the wild robot. The highly acclaimed and dream works animated feature that there's just so many films coming out right now. We wanted to make sure that we put our two cents on them because we need to. This is accurate. So yeah, that's how we're doing. We're going to talk about the wild robot. We're going to do that. How about right now? incident report. At 0300 hours, a number of universal dynamics robots were lost in a typhoon. Chance of recovery is unlikely. Do you need assistance? That should have been some of the trailer for the wild robot. I'm just going to read a brief pop description here. Shipwrecked on an deserted island, a robot named Ra's must learn to adapt to its new surroundings. Building relationships with native animals, Ra's soon develops a parental bond of an orphaned Gosling. The film was directed by Chris Sanders, who's gave us such films as legal and stitch, how to train your dragon, and of course, the call of the wild. Hey, enjoyed that one. It's a movie that exists. It has a pandemic release. We had a good time. It was before the pandemic. It was a theatrical release. It just kind of came and is like, I guess we're doing this. Yeah, it got delayed a lot. That was a thing to do. You know, who look great in it? Harrison Ford. Oh, there's a dog over there. I mean, you was a super buff. Like you must be on steroids in the beach. I was working out for Ra's Skywalker reshoots. Abe, yes, this movie, the wild robot, has come with a ton of buzz and a ton of praise. We're talking about it about a week after its release where it made a little over $30 million as an old healthy amount, which is pretty solid, especially for an original new-to-you type cartoon. I know it's a book series, but in terms of general audiences, it's basically new to you. Yeah, so follow that in mind. What did you think of a wild robot? I thought it was fantastic. It's easily one of my favorite movies. One of the best moves of the year is going to be on probably my top 10 list at the end of the year. I thought it was a really moving story about one parenthood slash motherhood specifically, and then one about community and how things come together, but also surprisingly about chosen families as another item. And then lastly, kind of just this really nice story about being more than what you can be. I was not familiar with the source material. I knew that it came from a book and then obviously, I think that there's like subsequent books after I watched the movie. Yeah, I checked up on that, but I thought it was really, really well done. A lot of things on the animation side really set out the way that they kind of interspersed some ways that they had done other DreamWorks movies like Puss in Boots. But at some point, I don't know if you saw this in yours too. It looked like frame rate changed at certain scenes, which I thought was pretty interesting and pretty unique. But honestly, at the end of the day, movies that move me are ones that make it to my top 10 list. And this movie had me teary-eyed for a few scenes, and it almost had me ugly crying for one scene, where I was like, "Whoa, this is pretty powerful." And I remember when we talked about this trailer a few months ago, and I was kind of emotional with that trailer too. So, good on them for being able to incorporate this story that when I looked at the designs for what the original author kind of drew for the Wild Robot rise, and then what they did here, it's like, yeah, I'm glad that they were able to sort of come to the table with their own ideas about how this can still look differently and unique. But I think from a storyteller perspective, some elements moved a little bit quicker than I normally would want them to move, just some plot points. By the same time, a lot of things really hit. It's a little bit, the movie feels pretty complete. I think it's only like an hour and forty-some-odd minutes, but at a certain point, I thought, okay, well, we're kind of near the end here, but it keeps going. And I was really happy that it incorporates some futuristic futurism thoughts in this world that is not even explained to us, but you were able to visually see kind of like what happened to the planet at this point and kind of where we are. So, I thought it was fantastic. I was really, really blown away by the story, but also the heart that it had in it. All right. So, I disagree, the end. No, I... When you're going to do that, you got to keep going the way that I joke around and dick around. Well, the difference is, I actually, I am... I think this is a very good movie, but one that didn't really get to me all that much, and by that, I mean, I... It's certainly above average. I think the movie, in what it's accomplishing, I think it accomplishes it very well. It's a very good-looking film. Sanders, I know, has listed Miyazaki as a key influence here with some... Spiritway specifically mentioned, and he doesn't mention Castle in the Sky, which is weird because Roz looks like the robot from Castle in the Sky. But it's a good-looking film. It has a number of sequences, I think, are really pretty special as far as what it's going for on an emotional level. But I think my issue that holds me back from just going to that extra level with it is, I was never surprised by what was taking place. I feel like the story is doing what I basically expected to do, and well, that's not necessarily a deal-breaker. It felt like it was a way of holding me back from being able to get closer to this and really see what a majority of others seem to be seeing with this movie. It's not necessarily a fault of the film. It's just more of my reaction to it. It's not really matching, I think, what it's going after. I can get into that a bit. Well, you're wrong, but keep going. What the characters are, I guess, part of it is there's not a lot of subtext or nuance here. I feel like because the animals talk based on Roz having the ability to kind of learn their language, and so it gives an excuse for animals to talk, which is a clever touch as far as like, "Why could animals talk?" Well, because Roz can understand, that's neat. But because of that, they are often pretty much shouting with themes at you. That's not inherently wrong, but it is the kind of thing where if I'm seeing a movie that has so much indebted to someone like Miyazaki or even early Disney animation, by comparison watching this movie, I feel like I'm not getting that same kind of feel because it's very much telling me exactly what it's on its mind as opposed to letting me pick it up for myself. Would this movie work better if there was just more silence? Perhaps. I mean, that's a big reason why Wall-E so much. It's so independent on dialogue and scripted bits involving what the characters are going through, expressed to your dialogue. So it's stuff like that that got to be a bit. I do think the final third where it kind of needs to, where it decides to establish an antagonist of sorts, I was like, "Do we need this?" That was kind of ready through my mind. Yeah, and it's like, all of this stuff, it's like, if I add that up, that's like what holds me back a bit, but at the same time again, I do think this movie is very good. I certainly recommend anybody seeing it on a big screen. It's incredibly well animated. I continue to enjoy that DreamWorks has evolved their style, something that I very much feel Pixar and Disney could take a lesson from as far as giving us less of the same. And it looks wonderful. And it looks noticeably wonderful, not in the same way that like Puss and Boots and Badgers were there were like, Echoes of Spider-Verse, which is not a bad thing. Spider-Verse looks amazing, but they do feel like they're taking the influence directly from those Spider-Verse movies, where this one feels like it's on its own level. It's trying to do this more painterly type feel that gives it this kind of 2D echo. And I like that. I like that I'm seeing a studio literally working through what I'd like to think are their own issues with their films as far as hey, what can we do to really spice up what we've been doing for the past, so odd years. So like on that front, I think it's hemmed really well. Lupita Nyong'o as the lead as Roz here, I think she provides a strong and vocal performance for playing a robotic character that has to evolve and have an arc and such. There are ways to do that that I think are less effective and I think she just knows what she's doing here. She provides a string. I mean, that's why you hire Lupita Nyong'o to do a loop like this, because she's very good at this thing. The other actors, I mean, they're fairly interchangeable, but you hear recognizable voices and you get your Matt Berry stuck out to me, Big Rain stuck out to me as far as like, yeah, that's Matt Berry and Big Rain. I - Who Matt Berry? Matt Berry? He's what's he? The like the porcupine? What is he? Oh, he's the beaver. He's the beaver. He's the beaver. He's the beaver. Yeah. Okay. No, no, but Matt Berry, what were the shadows? Yeah, I got it. Yeah. For whatever reason, I couldn't identify Pedro Pascal for the longest time. It's like me too! This is fucking Fox. Yeah, exactly. I know this is going to be like something. I got it in like the last third of the movie and I was like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah. It's like, it was like, this is somebody. Who is this? And I'm like, okay, yeah, it's Pedro. I didn't I didn't give Bing Rames to tell us all the credits. Bing Rames, I'm always mean, me and me and the thing. You think? Yeah, you go way back. Me and the thing. Yeah. Yeah. You know those donuts that he was carrying in a, in a. Oh, I can't remember. Yeah, Paul fiction. He was carrying them too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I want to say that I don't disagree with you on some of the story elements because I think that's kind of also where I'm a little bit weaker on because I think that there's a progression that the movie has to take and it takes it very quickly. I thought it was actually going to be a story about building this bond throughout the story and it is. Yes, but it does have to deal with a specific problem that that is the winter season that they have to that they have to encounter. But I will say that I think that there is sort of what you're talking about with some of the animation styles and sort of that the animation houses that come up. I watched this in Dolby and I remember the before this started there. They're having, you know, instead of like the whole entirely of the screen is still on, which they use for like the first run of Dolby and other having filmmakers kind of talk about things. Mm hmm. And the guy that they chose this time because previously Deadpool and Wolverine's already been released. So they don't have Sean Levy. That's being an auteur. Sean Levy. Yeah, they don't have him being like, I really want the the colors pop. So they have the founder of Illumination. Chris Melodendry. Yeah. And he's like, you know, I really want everyone to see it. This will go before in Dolby because the colors really pop. But all this to say is that when I think about the animation houses, you know, I've talked about this and I will speak for myself, but I think that Pixar has been doing okay. As of late, I think some of their works in the pandemic that didn't get the actual releases, which we've talked about like like Luca turning red and soul like were fantastic. They were real. They were real like director driven projects that were personal. And that means a lot to both me, but also I think to audiences that kind of view Pixar as a top shelf, you know, previously first position animation studio where they were they were putting in no name actors or actresses as voices just because they liked the, you know, the way that Boo sounds or whatever the case is. But at the same time, they were also making these movies that have a lot of like, I don't want to say like soul necessarily, but they had like a lot of a lot of content that was not necessarily for children where Disney kind of was in that realm. But Disney is pivoted. They made, you know, as utopia that I think you and I really liked. And a lot of animation studios have really caught up. So adult themes, right? Yeah, adult themes. Yeah. But a lot of measurement studios really caught up too. Like DreamWorks didn't have to train your dragon, but you know, you'll talk about the bad guys. All this to say that I think that what I dug about this one in the wild robot is that it kind of harken me back to an older Pixar feeling of like, oh, I'm watching a story rather than just merchandising, you know what I mean? And getting it out there like light year or whatever the case is. And I really dug that because it did feel so, I mean, you mentioned Sanders kind of making these past movies where they always deal with some sort of family where they always deal with some sort of like community aspect, right? But I really, really appreciated that they were able to make me feel like I was experiencing something rather than just watching something. So kudos to DreamWorks. Yeah. I mean, I was waiting for you to bring up Ruby Gilman teenage crack in one of your picks for the summer game. But of course, baby. But but it's not everything's a home runner. In terms of the exactly, that's what they said with the billion dollar arm. Not everybody's a home run because they were pictures. And everything's a strikeout shot out. Okay, John Hamm. In terms of adult themes and how this movie addresses them, I can appreciate that it has things like death being filled with quite a bit as far as animals being a part of the circle of life, so to speak. Yeah, there are numerous encounters and situations that occur merely because animal life going to be animal life, or Roz. Invertly does things and that and deals with the kind of fallout from those actions. I like, I, you know, not that I need my, you know, animated is animated DreamWorks supposed to be filled with death to make a point. But I do appreciate that it's attempting to do something with the idea of a character stuck in the wilderness and what that really means. It's not just how do I make a fire or what? It's like, no, the animals have to eat. They do things. They do. Yeah. And that does bring me back to what I wish I felt the movie did better, where there is a large scene that takes place during winter. Yes. And there is heavy snow going on. And a decision needs to be made as far as how do these animals survive this? Yeah. And how they do it while, you know, existing with one another. I like that in theory. And I don't think this movie poorly executes that sequence, but I do wonder how much better it could have been if, like I'm saying, if the film, instead of having so much dialogue and so many voices letting us hear all the different thoughts or whatnot, they're just screaming the things that I already understand, which is I don't like this because he's bigger than me and whatnot. Yeah. What if that was handled in a way that's not dissimilar from something like Bambi or Fantasia, where we don't need any dialogue at all. Yeah, he's animals. We as an audience recognize what's taking on based on the visuals that are present. I, you know, it's my own kind of issue because there's no like, solve for that beyond do it the way I want it. But you know, that's obviously not the case here. But in terms of how I'm responding to me, that's just like where my head went. I think that one of the things that you bring up there is something that I was not sure how the film was going to be when I saw the teaser trailer because again, I'm in the boat of not watching anything really beyond the teaser slash maybe the first trailer. But I also thought about maybe this movie not having any dialogue, especially the way the teaser trailer kind of plays things out. Maybe a few things here and there, not so much like Walley style, but almost like world of tomorrow style where it's like literally just like you're just watching these things happen and it's all feelings, you know what I mean? And that could work. But I also understand that they are trying to do things for a family audience. I thought about this like from a four quadrant standpoint because I thought, okay, well, this is sort of about motherhood. And then like, there's also like the Fox character, which is kind of like this fatherhood character. But then they also have like action sequence, like what you're talking about, like the third act. So there's like boys can have like their stuff there, you know what I mean? And there's like kidsy things here and there for like boys and girls and children. But yes, there's a lot here. And I think that, you know, keeping that in mind, kind of giving it a pass to some degree, that I can see your issue with it though, because it does at times feels though it takes away from, I guess maybe what you're trying to experience because there is something that is being said or the way that they're saying it. Or when I picked up on who the voice actor was, I kind of keyed in on that person themselves, you know what I mean? And I was like, well, fucking Pedro Pascal was like, you know, he's just like doing a sad guy voice right now or whatever. It's like, yes, that doesn't really help me out here. And that's actually the genius or something like finding Nemo or finding Dory, where it's like, I don't know, besides like Ellen DeGeneres and Albert Brooks, like everybody else is like kind of like a known-name person. Like people just worked at Pixar, you know what I mean? Like, especially like in the second one where it's like, I don't know who Young Dory is, but she is adorable, you know what I mean? And that was apparently like some guy's daughter at Pixar or something like that. And it's like, this is fantastic, you know, and that really keeps you in the moment. But yes, I can hear or I see what you're saying from your standpoint of like, I don't think you're missing anything off the mark, because again, I identify those things too. I had an overall more like emotional experience with it, but still like the demeritha I do have on it are very similar to what you're demeriting as well. I kind of just give it a pass. He's like, well, it's a family movie. And that point, like they can't all be like death, you know what I mean? But I did appreciate that they included that in the movie, not just once, but like a couple times. Yeah, for sure. And it's like, I just reiterating that like, I like this movie plenty. And while it's always going to be subjective matter what, and this what I'm about to say is ultimately doesn't matter. It's like, it is a basis of this is how I'm responding versus what the big majority of others are. It's I've got 97. What are you saying that I'm that I'm part of like the sheeple? No, but I but like, I am curious how close to me my issues are versus like anyone that's rated this film, but also might have reservation here as anyone has a similar reservation that I do about it regardless. Like it has a 97% around tomatoes, 8.5 average, 85 on Metacritic, which is insane because Metacritic is hard. That's the tougher grade. It's got an A cinema score. Like people like this movie, and I like this movie. And I don't like to make this discussion interesting, I'll be just going to bring up the things that, you know, please make up why I why I want to ask you like, what didn't work for you? I mean, what I've already like specifically though, like emotionally not resonant. I mean, the fact that I wasn't responding in a more emotional manner, I mean, that that could go here or there because you know, just maybe to spend them on how I feel like it's like that I recognize general can generate a certain emotion that I love the movie, but just doesn't necessarily do it for me. But like, it's not a matter of like, I didn't cry enough. Therefore, B plus, like it's, it's, it's, it's more like I'm saying, I think the, in terms of consistently engaging me through how it's choosing to display these themes and display these characters with the blitz display, these story beats, it, it's not hitting me in a sense that other films that are like this do, whether it's a Wally or whether it's any number of Miyazaki films or whether it's some of the better Disney films that are also, you know, about a kind of fish out of water character stuff in a certain environment, like, or, and like makeshift families or whatnot. There's plenty of examples of movies like the wild robot that doesn't make the wild robot. Here in Henderson's exactly, we don't want you anymore, because it's, that doesn't preclude wild robot from like being at that same level just because movies are like it. But in terms of, you know, do I measure this one in the same way that to measure other films that are like it? Not necessarily, doesn't make it a bad thing. Again, it was a way of four out of five, like it's, it's a, it's a strong movie and for DreamWorks, a studio that has a number of very good movies, but also, you know, has lesser than films as well. This is one of their, probably one of their best efforts by far. I mean, it, it really knows how to deliver. If I watch this again in the future, will I like it more? Maybe there's a chance of that as it stands. I'm like, no, I like this movie plenty. I just about quite over the moon for it, but I still like it. Yeah, I hear you. I don't think anything is really going to quite reach like Wall-E. I mean, Wall-E is like top three Pixar, you know what I mean? And that is very, it is a really beautiful thing to try and reach for, because I would be able to sniff out almost immediately if this was trying to do like a DreamWorks version of Wall-E. I would be like, this is a terrible cheap knockoff copycat, but it doesn't like the some elements. Yes, of course, like, depending on the other thing that you're kind of explaining, but I think really what, what, what really works about this movie in relation to Wall-E, I suppose, is that you have these inanimate objects that you kind of see as a singular entity, like robots, and then they become more. And that you grow attached to that person. Like, I hear what you're saying, because like, you know, like mother, mother, daughter, mother, son, stories don't hit me as hard as like father, son, and father, daughter stories. So that's where I'm also like, oh, well, I can definitely see what you're talking about, where like, I forget which one that I was thinking about, like, not a lot of people liked, what was the Pixar movie with like the cool magical realm world? Onward? Onward, yeah, not a ton of people. It wasn't like super highly well regarded, but the emotional beat there like really hit me pretty hard. And I was like, this is a story that I appreciated for that fact alone, even though there was like a ton, like I haven't re-watched it since, because I think that it's kind of like meandering at some points and kind of like lose its, I have so many questions of the world in that movie there. And then I do have about like the storyline. But what they're trying to achieve there is actually really like, nice and resonant versus something like brave is like, brave doesn't really work for me because it's like this mother daughter story. And like, it's not that I don't have a good relationship with my mother, but more of like, well, you know, it's just not one thing that is in like the Willhouse that like gets Gabe kind of moving and sad. And this one, I don't think that it was, I think that because of its universality in what it is trying to sort of say about you know, situations that you are in and you have to make the best of, that's kind of what I think hit me the largest, even though it's in the realm of like, again, of parenthood and motherhood, which I'm neither of those. That's fair. And I mean, that, you know, that that taps at the the notion of what you bring for any number of these kinds of movies and what you're going to respond to that said, there's plenty of movies that I like for various reasons that don't necessarily reflect anything that has to do with like me on a personal level of sorts, like what relationships I have with my parents or friends or what. Terrifier to you. But I mean, she has a sibling she's trying to take care of. I don't have a sibling, but I respond greatly to that plotline. I mean, but the notion of what's taking place here, it's like, this doesn't really reflect anything that I'm going through. But I wouldn't necessarily think that I'm holding the film back because of that. And at the same time, as far as other movies are concerned, it's rare that I look at the movie and like think, I hope, and I'm not saying you do, but it's rare that I look at a movie and like think, I hope it measures up to something like this or cross my arms and go, oh, you want to be this, let's see it movie. Like, that's not the kind of attitude to happen to it. Yeah, I try to judge everything individually on its own terms. And if it just happened, you know, naturally just being film people like we are, we're going to think about other, you know, movies or whatnot, that might resonate in the same way. But like, yeah, so it's like, it's not as though like, it's not wall-y, good, therefore, that's why I feel this way, I don't think that way. And if he, if he were that way, I'd be like, what a dick. This iron guy fucking stick up his ass, like in comparing everything to like, one of the best films I've ever made. What's next? You're going to compare everything to Finding Nemo? Like, for father-son stories. I would do this podcast for 13 years and suddenly, this is the way he wants to review movies. Well, it's not Finding Nemo. All right, all right. Imagine if you kept saying that, but we just like, we should just start clipping that every time. But yeah, I agree with you in how to watch movies and how to approach movies. I will be honest that I kind of was expecting a little bit or a lot of it out of this movie, and I got a little bit, a lot of it out of it, which is why I was kind of impressed with it. You know, I tried to go with like pretty measured expectations, but this one was, it did, it did meet my expectations, minus like some of the voice stuff. I certainly, you know, it's a, you know, especially when it's a mainstream film, or just a film that just naturally is generating a lot of certain kinds of chatter from the, you know, the circles that we follow. It was hard to walk into wild robot and not understand that it's been highly regarded so far and you're going to set yourself up or something. Yeah. So I think it lived up to my expectation, I think it was overhyped. I wouldn't necessarily count either of those things, I generally predicted it like gauging myself as far as what I'm expecting to get out of something regardless of what others are saying about it. But obviously going into this, I'm like, I'm hearing a lot of great things about a new dream or a animated movie, like I want, you know, that to work out for me. You know, it is what it is. What I do find interesting, this is from director Chris Sanders' mention. He directed the original "How to Train Your Dragon" along with Dean Dubois. His "How to Train Your Dragon" is a film that I similarly recognized at the time as being very good, but I wasn't over the moon for in the same way I know a lot of other people were, "How to Train Your Dragon 2." This guy was over the moon for it. I know you were, "How to Train Your Dragon 2." Well, I was instantly in love with, I think that would be was so basic. Is that the one where he finds his mom or no? He finds his mom, and a giant line of Hansu's doing his thing. Yeah. And Gerard Butler does stuff like, there's a lot of things that happen to him. Gerard Butler shouldn't do a really good job in this movie. Yeah, there's a lot of things. That way we just stuck it regardless. The first one, that was I had a very similar reaction to this one, not in terms of the story, but in terms of like my impression of it, based on what I saw versus what the world seemed to be seeing around me. Okay. Where I certainly liked the movie. It looked amazing in 3D and theaters. I enjoyed that it had, you know, all the different dragons, and it had like emotional stakes, and it even had a kid who, you know, becomes basically handicapped by the end of putting his own leg. Yeah. I was into the fact that it was doing that stuff. Yeah. All of that said, I was still like, that's very good. I wasn't like, this is the best. I was like, yeah, that's right. It's a really good movie. Yeah. Now, and even then, it took me to when 3D was coming out for me to like finally see it, the first one for like, I probably like the fourth or fifth time to be like, you know what? I get it. No, I can't hear you. I think that's it. I still give it like the same grade in terms of like my emotional reaction to that movie. I was like, I see what we're doing. I think I finally get like what this is that's like made people what was the it factor for you? Like it's impossible to like get into it. Okay. Got it. I'm just curious what that is, whether it's just my mood from that day or just whatever issues I have with that movie, like just finally kind of subsiding. The last time I watched the first how to train a dragon, I was like, I understand this now. Yeah. That's cool. And that's not, you know, will that happen for the wild robot? I don't know. Does it matter if I suddenly like click with it more years down the road compared to now? Absolutely not. But in terms of what these movies can deliver, yeah, that is something that I do admire about animated films like this that they, especially ones that are operating, you know, to engage a four quadrant audience. Sure. There's a lot to unpack there regardless of like the standard plot, what have you. It is, it is, it is attempting to engage you in a variety of ways, right? Whether it's a young child or an older person or a family watching something together or, you know, siblings watching, you know, any number of things that can change the way you experience something. Yeah. And I do think that that's, that's especially true for like, for like animated features that are, you know, they, they bring a lot of imagination to a project that they can't quite do the same way. Yeah, exactly. And we've talked about that in many forms with us too, most recently about the Lord of the Rings, the world we're here in a trailer where I was like animation can do a lot of things that you can't really do in live action cinema. And sometimes it actually works better for you, from a story telling perspective. When I asked you earlier about, you know, what was the one thing that maybe was able to rekindle your, your love for the first time? Yeah, it's not that I want to get into that too much. But more of that, something that I'm always looking for in animation is the ability to take chances. And I think that my perspective here is kind of forged in the fire of me growing up in the 90s and getting a lot of Disney animated films where it's very fun and friendly. And there is a dark element, but that dark element is very quickly dismissed or taken care of, whether that be like the, the, the dragon at the end of Cinderella where, or Sleeping Beauty, I should say, whereas like, hey, well, you know, this is, you know, the Prince Charming kind of defeats the dragon pretty quickly or the witch in Snow White or even something like Scar in the Lion King. But I'm always big on taking chances, you know what I mean? And so that's why when you and I talk about like a film, it's like, I love Likea because of the stories that they're trying to tell, but also the chance that they're showing, which is like, again, coupon the two strengths is not a happy ending. Like he loses all of his parents and he's an orphan at the end of it. And it is a story that you kind of embrace, I embrace it from the standpoint of like, well, it, he's a stronger character. Yes. And he's going to live his life much happier. Now I suppose at the same time, it is a very sorrowful story or some of the things like some early Pixar stuff. All this to say is that when I think about how I train your dragon, like, I hadn't read the books. And so the whole entire like, the leg thing, I just didn't know. And I'm like, this is really cool that they're incorporating this because I think when I think about it, we'll be like tangled. There's, there was, there's a sliver of a chance that tangled could have been a great movie. And that was when they were going to kill off the Zachary Levi character, but they chose not to. And I was like, okay, well, you know, you could have been great, but you guys are just in good film. So that's kind of where I sit with some of these animation movies in what they're trying to accomplish. Because spider versus like kind of like its own animal and different in its own bees, because of the way that they're trying to, or they have incorporated so many design elements. But the story is so, it's so PG 13, you know what I mean? Like it is still very fun and friendly too, but you still get a lot of elements like teenage angst. And you also get a lot of the elements of like loss and whatever else because it's still at the end of the day, a Spider-Man film. So you do have to have the La Salle with there. But how to train and drag in the series, but also all of the like, even in the wild robot when you mentioned the winter sequence, but there's a lot of there's like, even like an earlier part where I was like, I don't know how they're going to do this when Raj kind of comes to contact with an egg. I was like, I don't know how they're going to do this or show this. But I was like, oh, they showed it. And I was like, this is a very fascinating thing to show because it's hard to explain this to like a child. There were a lot of children in my screening. I was like, it's kind of hard to explain this to children, right? But same time, like visually, you get it. And also, you know what, the Fox brings it up a few times. Anyway, whenever animation kind of takes chances, and this is why it's hard to, it's hard to qualify these things with like a master of the game, like like Miyazaki, like what you brought up earlier, because Miyazaki is always doing a cool shit like this. You know what I mean? Like, he doesn't, I love his cool. It's like, it doesn't make any sense, but for children, it doesn't have to make sense. I was like, this is great, you know, like, and just do your thing, my guy, because the world will follow kind of things. So animation being a form of art and being a form of storytelling is fantastic. And the ones that truly stand out to me are the ones that really allow you to tell the same story that you would tell in live action, but just in art form. Part of that speaking to a kind of expectation that comes from the animation form and like what you want to get out of it versus what the film's going to supply you. Now, it's subjective in terms of what you appreciate about a choice a film to make. So it's like, it's not, you know, you can't just say you have to feel this way, because that's what the design is. But when it comes to something like Disney's classical sense of storytelling, understandably, there's a rhythm to those kinds of films where you're not, it's not about a lack of ambition, but there's a formula in place because formulas work and they're based around fairy tales that are established storytelling methods that have been used for, you know, centuries. So it's like, if I get to a Cinderella is Sleeping Beauty, it's that there is ambition on display and those films for other reasons outside of the story being told. I mean, Sleeping Beauty is a film that like almost bankrupted Disney because of how expensive it was. Or, you know, even something like Tangled, another film that was incredibly costly for a variety of reasons, $250 million, I believe. There was a lot of things baked into why. But that's a film where being Disney, I can't expect it to make dark choices that will go too far. Like, it's not, it's not part of, it's not part of that studio's DNA. Yeah. And I don't fault them for that. Does that, does that, does that matter on the realm of like how good the movie is with the movie better because it makes certain choices? Or does it like, you know, that's, it's, it's a moot point there because that's the way they're going to function. And there are other princess movies that are perhaps better, or perhaps worse, because of just how they're doing the thing that they're doing. Totally. Yeah. When it comes to something like, what these wild robots doing, or what these spider-verse films are doing, or what not, DreamWorks and other, like a, there's another example. Those are studios that have very much made it part of their kind of thesis to deliver films that break away from a stand, more standard touch that Disney has, you know, been doing for over a century. So it, it's not surprising to be to see those choices being made. And it is interesting to watch like, which ones really go for something, whether it's how far the spider-verse films want to, especially across the spider-verse, wants to, might never work over the last year, wants to not give you action in favor of scenes that breathe because characters want to tell you what their, what their journey is, or something like Lyca, which, yes, has a lot of, you know, teenage stress going on because of, you know, metaphors for puberty or, you know, other ideas and something like missing link that involve taking on the patriarchy and infastiness. Yeah, there's, you know, there's so much. Or even like something like paranormal where it's like generational trauma, you know, it's the term that you can throw in a lot these days, you know, but it's, it's true, right? So it's like, I, you know, do I walk into a new DreamWorks film that I know is based on a certain kind of thing, and the trailer is going to be getting a certain kind of tone and do like, am I going to feel like, I don't know, validated because it chose to go down a darker path than it could have necessarily, but I, but I can appreciate that the, that, you know, the studios put itself into position where I don't necessarily know what that's going to be. Yeah, I can expect to be surprised or at least pleased by the fact that it wants to make those kinds of choices because that's, that's what it said itself, it's doing. Yeah, let me be clear, like, you know, you can have like a really happy story. I enjoy this as well, right? Yeah, I don't think that I'm arguing against like, well, you know, it has to be dark for me to like it. No, like, I enjoy a lot of these movies that are very, like, you know, a lot of the Pixar shorts that came before previously, the, the larger movies were all very lighthearted and fun, you know, some of them had other things that they're dealing with, like bow is a little bit more like personal, but still some like, you know, storks or here's an example for you. Cloudy chance of meatballs. There's no point in that movie where I think Cliff's your foot Lockwood's going to die orifically. That's not how you pronounce his name. It's that word. There's no point where I think any of those characters have come to some severe harm, like change the entire status quo of things because we wanted to make sure we got a dark message across. Totally. Yeah. But the movie is nothing but a joy. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I have a group on the Simpsons, which we reference all the time, you know, like the Simpsons is a lot of things at a lot of different times. It can be very funny, but it can also be very emotional and it can be able to be very resonant. It can also be very like whimsical and just like at sometimes very non sequitur. But I do want to bring up examples of like how television itself also plays with the genre and allows it to do storytelling, you know, Bob's verse, a show that I watch all the time, which I reference here all the time. And I watch it as like a comfort show, comfort show, just because it's on the background. I can kind of do whatever. And sometimes I'll hear a funny joke. But you know, there's an episode that I really like, which is the Christmas episode from season 13. And that one's very nice and warm and fuzzy. And it has an amazing ending, an amazing third act to it. And then they also do another episode, which I've talked to you about too. In the, I think season 14, like episode two or something like that, it's one of like Rudy and his parents and dealing with or and base to be like a child that divorced, you know what I mean? I was like, these like, you can tell stories through animation in any time format too. But yeah, I just really enjoy when people are not just doing like in the case of like a television series, like an episode of the week kind of thing, where it's like, Hey, the the kids go on an adventure, but it actually has something to do. All this to say is that when you bring it back to film animation, it is it's not necessarily like a make or break point for me. But I do like when films do have a sense of self in them. And so they know what they're trying to accomplish versus just like being a cash grab, or just being like, clearly, like, you know, something that there's like, well, if somebody's going to do this, then we should release another movie just to because we need to keep up with it. Like, and let's just do Angry Birds 2, you know what I mean? It's like, all right, well, let's not to be fair to Angry Birds 2. It was very well reviewed in large regard as one of the best video game. Angry Birds. Sorry. The first one, the first Angry Birds is a mess. So yeah, some fun, whatever. And then Jason Seneca's supposed to be like the main character. I will say it's hard to like slump your way through animation. So like, I know you know that too, like, you know, it's one thing for like movie stars to coast off their charms and live action movies or what have you animations like, you have to put in the effort to make an animated movie in a way that's just different from other movies. So it's like, it's always, it's not like upsetting because I'm not going to get, you know, it's a movie, whatever. But like, it's always disheartening when there's an animated movie that comes out that I generally want to see because why else am I seeing it? And it's like, not good. Yeah, like, you know, there's, there's, you know, we get a share of animated movies every year. Yeah. And it's not off-word where it's not just that I find it average or it's just not like the audience that I'm not not the audience for it, but like that it's bad. Rivers is not a few bad animated movies, which is a shame and I don't want that to happen. But that is the case. Illumination, the studio, I, that feels less like bad and more just, I don't care for this. This is not an image. I do think Mario was bad, but Bernardo's a bad idea. But for the most part, I think the, the, the, the illumination stuff is just like, this is just not my thing. Yeah. Some that I could appreciate more than others, but even then it's not like I'm going over the moon for any of those. Right, right. So, yeah, like it, there's no broader point there beyond I know that there's effort that goes and do all of these movies because it's like, yeah, you have to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And that, and that's, you got to sell tickets. You got to keep the lights on. You know what I mean? Like, like, Christopher Soffson passed away, but I think one of the things that was coming up during the, his passing was that people were writing my stuff, like, you know, I saw him on the set of, like this terrible movie was like, the check's clear, man. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, you got it. You got to, not everything's going to be a home run touchdown. Like what you know, I talk about all the time, because we love sports, or you got to hit some singles every now and again. And also it's a job. I mean, that's exactly, I mean, that's, you know, that not every, that every actor could be precious and say, I want, I only work when I want to work or what not, for a majority of actors and even actors that already have all the money. Yeah. Not everyone can be Daniel Day Lewis. For majority of actors, including ones that already have everything, it's still work. It's the, and it's, it's a whole other topic though. But like, it's still a job, and it's a job that factors into, you know, all of the other people that are also working on the same thing. So it's like you're not doing your job. That means other people can't do their job. Like it's a whole, you know, it goes down a hole. Yeah. Let me ask you kind of bring this back into like the DreamWorks, while we're by thing. Has, as your opinion of DreamWorks kind of like change in the last few years, mine is like Ruby crack it. Ruby, Ruby changed back in. Yeah. But, you know, they've had an interesting movie with Pissing Boots. Yes. But also the bad guys and now the wild robot, they were, where do you think that DreamWorks kind of has shifted in your, in your ranking of, of studio houses? Because I still think Pixar is probably number one. Sony is kind of up there, for me, because of the Spider-Man stuff. And then DreamWorks feels like it's like, maybe like second or third. I don't know where this sits. But I'm agreeing with you that illumination is not my jam. And like the blue sky is no longer anymore, but you know, I didn't really think that I never really enjoyed the, the mammoth movies with Ray Romano. Ice Age movies? Yeah. I like the first Ice Age movie because it's, and Ice Age movies, the fall of such as comedy sequels. Yeah. The first one is like what we're talking about has adult themes. Oh, sorry. I should say that, that Lyca's up there too. Probably like, it might actually, it might be second. And then Sony DreamWorks 3/4. I mean, like, I say Lyca's by number one, because it, for one thing they, they haven't missed. So like that, that goes a long way. But also I am, I'm genuinely, genuinely excited about what they pull off because of, because they're using stop motion, because they're exploring things or whatnot. Pixar, I mean, pound for pound, Pixar has more classics because they've been doing it longer. And, you know, and this is splitting here. Like there's no, there's no scale. I'm putting these on and being like, that's what it is. That's always going to be that way. But like, but like, yeah, like, I'll always going to see a new Pixar, but because it's Pixar, like that's, you know, it's what that's going to shake out. In terms of where DreamWorks lands in that, it's like in the high part of a middle tier, I suppose, or at least it's like, it's under Pixar and Lyca. Yeah. Sony'd have to think about like, what else did, because it's like, Sony's more like, I like Cloudy and I like the Spider-Verse films. What else they got? Yeah. So it's like, I don't know, it's things like over, was it over the edge? Not over the edge of that DreamWorks, though one that's like, it's like, it's like a bear and something. It's Ashton Kutcher and Martin Lawrence, that dream team that you needed. What's that fucking movie called? Giggle this as you keep talking it. It's like, it's like so many sequels to it. That's the other thing that gets me. There are so many sequels to this? Open season. There we go. Yeah. There are more than one, there was more than one movie. There are, there are one, two, three other open season movies. Wow. Okay. Well, that's too many. It's a lot. Hey, again, people need to work. Yeah. Regardless, no, DreamWorks, I, you know, I, there, again, there's probably a really good DreamWorks movies. And in the recent years, I mean, yes, there's a number of things I really like, but there's still also the stuff that I just don't really care for. There's Ruby Gilman, there's another Trolls movie. Yeah. I haven't seen a Troll since the first Trolls, but I was on my way out in the first five minutes of the Trolls movies. So like seeing more of them did not excite me. There's a boss baby sequel that sounds like a nightmare. So it's like, but yeah, you got your bad guys, you got your pushing boots, you come to Panda four, I like this one. I mean, so it's like what it's less about like, is the studio consistent like that, you know, whatever everybody has their hits and misses. That's how studios work. So for like, like what you said, well, I mean, you know, when you're when you're the king. But I mean, the better question is like, how is the studio performing now? And if I had to like, look at that, like I mentioned, DreamWorks is actively making choices that are evolving what they, where they started to where they are right now. And in multiple ways, too, like I said, but Kung Fu Panda pushing boots, the bad guys wild robot doesn't look like any of those movies, right? That that's something. Meanwhile, as much as I like soul or like turning red or inside out, it's all like this, you know, as good as the animation is. And yes, it's great that Pixar has there is a picture. They have a lot of money. Those but those phones are not cheap. They look amazing. But there is a house style that's pretty correct there. Luca was the first time it felt like they really tried to do something different for a bit. Because that has a kind of a water color-y kind of vibe for it. And like the italic use of Italy and the colors and everything. Like, there's just something there that's like this, there's a little extra going on here in the terms of animation. Right. And even on Disney's front, I mean, I think Wish was a near disaster. But at least to try something from an animation standpoint, I didn't like it right. So it's like, that's what I like to see. It's less about, you know, like, well, the last three dreamworks movies weren't great. Therefore, this like, that's not a thing. It's more of what's the studio doing? Yeah, I agree with you. Because that's also the way that I view things as well. And while I am ranking some things there, when I think about DreamWorks, like, it's clear that there's a shift in the way that they have decided to try and do things. Like, I think like when they first started out in 2003 or whatever else, but whenever Shrek, whenever Shrek came out. Oh, let's be clear. 98 and Ants was their first. Yeah. With the loan and Woody Allen. First they had that because that's what it was both the digital, the 3D and the hand drawn because they had Prince of Egypt and Rodel Dorado. That's great. Prince of Egypt, which was, you know, a decent hit. But also, yeah, it does have like really good animation. Rotel Dorado, not so much. And then a spirit, the stallion of the Simmeron or stallion spirit, you could say it anyway, it all works. You just conjured a spirit now, like you just conjured a ghost. That not great. And that in Sinbad did terrible. That's what they just stopped hand animation or what? Anyway, all this is a is that yes, it certainly feels as though they were kind of like maybe trying to play at times catch up with some other studios. And now it just feels like, yeah, they're just doing their own thing. And which I admire because we talked about inside out too. And we kind of talked about how they went different animation style in that movie itself as well. That kind of followed suit with some of the Spider-Verse stuff, but also some stuff that that dreamworks had done where it kind of went 3D animation to 2D animation. And I'm glad that a lot of people are kind of playing with the genre, playing with the art form. But all this is saying that dreamworks is certainly feels as though they have something that they're trying to shoot for now. And I don't know what it is. I can't really define it for you. But I just know that it feels different from like what you're saying, like Ruby Kraken teenage vampire or whatever. Ruby Gilman teenage. Yeah, yeah, that one. Yeah, my Dark Horse Effect. I will note that dreamworks that one of their major things that they've done as far as overhauling their work is they've they've made decided to start making cheaper movies, which and they've outsourced their animation. Okay, that's people working on things. And as a result, which I think is an interesting positive is because there is less people, there's less of an emphasis on, I don't know, intense photo real detail. And that could sound like, well, now they have to take shortcuts, but that shortcuts have amounted to, let's do this really unique rotoscoping slash, you know, 2D influence slash concept art kind of look to it. It's like that because it feels quote unquote unfinished, they seem to be capitalizing off what that look actually gives them, which is neat because it's resulted in some very interestingly animated films in recent years from them. We didn't talk about Paramount at all because they don't really have much, but I mean, that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie was spectacular. For what it was going for with its kind of very specific designs that, you know, look like drawings come to life, literally like kids drawings come like that's, you know, as much as I love the Spider-Verse films that I do, it's like, that's the closest I've seen to something that's just like blowing the doors off what you can do in an interesting animation style. That's a good point. Yeah, I mean, again, a lot of places have animation, have animated films. Some of them still employ 2D art, but at the same time, again, I think the dream works. It feels like they're kind of approaching a new chapter and what they're trying to do from a storytelling perspective, and I'm all here for it. And I thought some of the wild ruba. Go see it. You kind of missed your chance already. Stinging it like in premium formats, because it's that we've got Joker Foliadu coming out soon, which is going to take over the IMAX screens. But please see it in theaters. I think that it's worth it from a visual story telling aspect. And it allows you to not look at your phone and be distracted because that's, I think, what all movies require is that you kind of are paying attention to everything that's happening. Yeah, no matter whatever issue I have, it's not taking away from the fact that I think the film is absolutely beautiful to look at. It's very engaging. It's entertaining. It's often quite fun. It deals with some topics that I think are interesting to see animated films deal with, you know, mild reservations aside, I think it was, you know, it's very good and what a dream works as best. Yeah. All right. That's the nature of these bonuses. We could just stop. So you can find our podcast, everybody can find the podcast to search right now there and we're all over the place. But yeah, we're on the internet. That's going to do it for this bonus episode. Stay tuned. We have a number of horror themed specials coming out. We have our review Joker coming soon and plenty of more things. So, yeah, so next time, so long. And goodbye. [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]