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Check out OsirisPod.com for more and also check out our YouTube channel, Under Osiris Media. This episode dives into some songs and in particular the lyrics. Five songs were chosen, one each by my pals, RJ and Tebow, who joined me in this episode and three others from Twitter. Thanks for checking it out. Our sponsor, CBD Vermont, believes that healthy soils, strong local economies and plant-based wellness go hand in hand. That's why they work with organic farmers across Vermont to grow the highest quality hemp and produce full spectrum CBD extracts for wholesale and retail. There are so many CBD products available these days. It's important to know where and how the hemp was grown or what else might be in your product. CBD Vermont tests all its products to make sure you get the right amount of CBD and no unwanted toxins. CBD Vermont operates a retail store in Waterbury Center, Vermont, featuring all Vermont-made CBD products, including oils, capsules, edibles and topicals. And they've all been fully vetted by the CBD Vermont staff. Okay, now that I've gotten to become a CBD user, along with so many of you under the Scales listeners, I'll tell another favorite product of mine. It's a chocolate bar. It's called Nutty Steps CBD Dark Chocolate. Each square contains five milligrams of the purest CBD available. And as it melts on your tongue, you taste chocolate and natural hemp. It's actually an amazing combination. There's nothing in the bar except coca, cane sugar and pure plant CBD. Get it online or at the CBD Vermont store. The owners of CBD Vermont are longtime fish fans, so they're offering an exclusive 15% off all purchases to fans of under the Scales. Visit their online store at CBDVermont.com and enter the promo code under the Scales for 15% off your order. They ship to all 50 states and internationally. Thanks CBD Vermont. Welcome to Under the Scales. I am here with my friend Tebow and my friend RJ. How are you doing Tebow? I'm great. So Tebow has been in many under the Scales, but not more than RJ. How are you RJ? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me back. Absolutely. And RJ and Tebow's idea for this month, which to me is a good one because at least once a year, I like to turn the mic around onto Tom. And so these guys are going to essentially interview me about lyrics. And we've chosen songs based on their songs that they want to ask me questions about. But also we reached out to Twitter and asked, I think, three other people, right RJ? Yeah, yeah. We got a ton of responses and we had to sift through a lot. And so yeah, we're going to use three of them. They were all really good. But I think this is going to make for a really good conversation. I'm excited and I'm willing to talk about that at length. So I'll rely on you guys to cut me off when I get boring. In Passibla. First, RJ, before we start, did you want to talk at all about "Ghost of the Forest"? Well, we've had a lot of discussion on various Osiris podcasts about "Ghost of the Forest." But I don't think you've been interviewed about it at all. And I think it would be interesting for people to hear. First, you saw several of the shows beginning, middle, and end. And I had a couple of questions. The first is, what was it like to see your friend up there just pouring his heart out in a way that he probably hasn't on stage before? And did that evolve throughout the tour for you? First of all, it was amazing. And I saw four shows. I saw Philadelphia, DC, New York, and San Francisco, the last one. And I was with you, RJ, for San Francisco. And I was with UT, but I think for New York. So I did see an evolution. I did see a change of the band. But first of all, your question was about Trey and pouring his heart out. And it was extremely emotional and a wonderful band. And they just got stronger as they played. And just watching Trey ushering his friend from this world into the next world, night after night. It got more and more powerful every time. Did you-- I know at the Greek theater, the last show, the end when Trey was thanking everyone and doing the band in shows, I know that part was particularly meaningful to you or you had a reaction to that. What was that about? Like, what were you feeling at that moment at the end? Well, I was reacting not only because of what it made me feel, but watching Trey and from knowing him. And everyone there knew what he felt. And it was just this profound, incredible sense of-- it's over. The tour's over. There's always a motion for that. But this was a different kind of-- it's over. It was like, the goodbye is over, too. So it was a long road that Trey took to writing all those songs and then performing them, pouring his heart out, like he said. And it culminated with that show in San Francisco. And I'm not sure if you know or not, but Chris's two daughters were in the audience and Trey knew that as well. So it was a special show for him in many ways. Wow, that's amazing. And what do you guys think about in terms of the songs, the songwriting, are there highlights for you from the set and the album that are sticking with you still? For me, there was two that consistently thrilled me. And four times, seeing it four times, these three definitely stood out. And they were the ones that I was singing later. And the first one was Friend. And that's song number three. And that's the one that kind of, to me, is like kind of Pink Floydy chords and it starts out like, so this is it. It's over. I don't wanna look 'cause I don't want it to end. And it's just very, you know, powerful raw lyrics. And then it goes, does this big David Gilmore, like, bang, do, do, do. And then it's kind of like clapped and stepped up in place. Like I was having all this like classic rock feel for it. And that one was always extremely powerful for me. But then the other one that I came away from every concert singing days afterwards was the About to Run. And I'm not sure if you remember during the performance of that one, the LED backdrop behind the band had a full, you know, three story tray in rainbow LEDs bouncing back and forth across the stage. It was really, really amazingly done. Yeah. Tebow, what about you? - Well, I only saw The One Show in New York. And I went in without listening to any previous stuff or the album. So it's hard to really tell you about the lyrics or that. But what I was, what I took away from it was the theatrical part of it all. You know, all the gags that fishes, they'd been doing the choreography, the Broadway show he did. It sort of, I feel like a lot of that leaked into this. - Very much so that I was going to say, I'm sorry to interrupt you, the woman who had to do with, was it stop making sense? She did something with Talking Heads and David Byrne. Was the one who was responsible for that. - And that's obvious. - The backdrop. - If you, you know, can watch it again on YouTuber, ever see it again, but that's what I took out of it. But love the whole thing, it was awesome. - I wish I had been able to go with you guys to that San Fran show just to see the evolution of it too. 'Cause they did it enough that they got better and the shows were different every night. - Yeah, I thought it was a totally different band when I saw the, from the DC show to the Greek show. I mean, really intense tight band, really good. I wish they were doing another tour. But I guess, so last question for both of you guys on this. Do you guys think that they're, these songs will enter the fish rotation at all? - I do, I've heard there's a bunch of speculation as to which ones we'll make it in. I haven't taken part in that speculation really, but I do, I think, about to run could go in there. And I have a feeling Trey likes these songs and like the reaction to them enough that he'd at least be willing to audition them for the other two members of the band. - Yeah, I mean, fish there. - And of course, if he's there. - Having fish there, he's, that you got half the band who already knows the stuff. - Right, and he's the hardest usually to teach this on. - Right, and so they're right there. I'm sure you'll see more than one. - Hey, RJ, you would know this, has Fishman ever played as a rhythm section with Tony before? - With Tony, yeah. Thanks to Jam Base, the great Scotty B, Scott Bernstein. They did collaborate once. Fishman was with Tab in the Easter Jam at the higher ground in 2004. And I think that might be the only time, but. - That's amazing. So he sat in on Russ's drum set. - I think so, yeah, with Ray, Tony, and Jen. - 'Cause that really worked for me. I kind of liked that rhythm section. It was interesting and different. Tony played in such a way that he doesn't have the attack on his base as he plays. It's almost sometimes, he's just layering. He's a quiet layer on the bottom, and he's no attention drawn to him. - That was good of the forest and so proud of Trey. And I think we all are. And it was an amazing accomplishment. The second album, non-fish album, that's come out of the Fish Camp as a side project in a year. - He's just gonna keep doing this. I mean, with Cass Vodvox and this, and there's so much other stuff going on and so many other projects. And Tom, remember when we talked to Trey last summer, he said that there was a composition he was working on and he was very excited about that he hadn't quite finished yet. And I don't think we've heard that yet unless it was something different. So I assume he's got lots more stuff coming eventually. - Good point. Often when he has a piece that he works on for a long time, that turns into one of those time turns elastic type songs that's multi-part and sometimes involves orchestra and all that stuff. So yeah, I'm interested in hearing what that is too. But let's move on to the lyrics part of this podcast. RJ, the first song that you wanted to analyze, I think came from you and that was "Blaze On." Is that right? - Yeah, yeah, and I've been wondering about this song for a while, mostly because I feel like it marks sort of a different tone or different approach from you in terms of the lyrics. And also just, it seems like you and Trey and Trey has fun playing it. It just seems like a different era of writing. And I wonder if you can talk about that, but also just kind of the impetus behind some of the lyrics. - Oh, well, as far as the era goes, it was a great songwriting session for me and Trey. It was February 2015 in the Outer Banks, North Carolina near Kitty Hawk, where the Wright brothers flew their plane, the first sustained powered flight, I think. I'm not sure, you guys can refute me on that. Plus, another cool thing about that area, Trey and I went and visited the site of the first, I guess you'd say the first European colony in North America and that was called Roanoke. And it's also called the Lost Colony because the colony, I think it was before 1600, like 1580 or something. And then the colony leader, and I forget his name, he left his family there. And I think the first European child ever born in the US, I think it was his grandchild, he left his family there and went back to England for supplies. And when he came back, they were gone. - Well, it took like three years to get back. - Oh yeah, there was like a Spanish war happening or something and so he was barricaded, or blockaded or whatever it's called. So he couldn't, so when he got back, the only clue of where they were or what had happened to them was the word Croatoan carved into a tree. But it never was clear what happened to them. And Croatoan is the name of another island, but they weren't there either. So they probably were killed by like a hostile Indian tribe or other people figure that it was less ominous and they actually just took shelter with an Indian tribe. But we'll never know. But anyway, so we went and looked at that first settlement and there's remnants there. I'm not sure if that had an influence on us writing, but it might have on the title of No Man in No Man's Land. For me, a little bit. But that session had some great songs. So it was Shade, No Man, and Mercury, we're in that. I don't think Kill Double now. Kill Double was kind of about that area in my head. We're also written during that session. But let's first hear a portion of the very first version that we recorded. And I think this is Trey on Bangos. And it's back in February, 2015. I don't think the world knew about this song until that Bend concert in Oregon. July, 2015. And then Big Boat came out in 2016. All right, here's that first version of the song. ♪ Come that cliff ♪ ♪ Stay on your feet ♪ ♪ Scramble for your footing ♪ ♪ When it gets too steep ♪ ♪ You're on the highway now ♪ ♪ With higher hopes ♪ ♪ While all around are rolling eggs ♪ ♪ With living yolks ♪ ♪ You never get too mad ♪ ♪ You never get too blue ♪ ♪ It must be all the chemtrails ♪ ♪ Raining down on you ♪ ♪ Justice of the piece ♪ ♪ Can't help you anymore ♪ ♪ And they just took the covers off ♪ ♪ The justice of war ♪ ♪ You got your nice shades on ♪ ♪ And the worst days are gone ♪ ♪ So now the band plays on ♪ ♪ You got one life plays on ♪ ♪ You got your nice shades on ♪ ♪ And the worst days are gone ♪ ♪ So now the band plays on ♪ ♪ You got one life plays on ♪ (upbeat music) All right, so that's a tray. Pretty much had the whole song structure down and the harmonies and everything. And then just added other parts a little bit later, like the B section and stuff like that. But let's jump into lyrics. So it starts with, climb that hill, stay on your feet, scramble for your footing when it gets too steep. You're on the highway now with higher hopes. Well, all around are rolling eggs with living yolks. So Tebow, do you know what rolling eggs all around you with living yolks are? - I do not. - When you're on a highway? - I've been on the highway a lot with you. - Right. - I don't know this one. - It's cars, car living yolks. So Fishman told me that that's his favorite Tom Marshall lyric. At least his current favorite. And then it goes into any comments, RJ? - No, I did not know that. And now it makes a lot of sense. - You never get too sad. You never get too blue. It must be all the chemtrails raining down in you. And that's a nod to the chemtrail conspiracy freaks. - Yeah. - To me, I consider that like the bottom of the barrel of conspiracy theories. It's like the government's putting chemicals up there to subdue the five of us. - That's not the flat, flat arthers. - Well, flat arthers are below-- - That's the bottom. - Or below chemtrails somehow. (laughing) The justice of the peace can't help you anymore. They just took, and they just took the covers off the justice of war. You got your nice shades on, the worst days are gone. So now the band plays on, you've got one life, blaze on. So to me, and I'm gonna ask you guys what you think of that. But to me, it's like, life is good. Kick ass with the one life you got. And if you're listening to this, you're probably with your friends, hopefully outdoors, wearing shades, kicking back with your fish family. How about you, RJ? - Yeah, that part, I totally, exactly what you said. I think the sort of era thing that I was referring to earlier is it's a little bit like looking, not necessarily looking back on your life, but like learning maybe to appreciate what you have and just like have fun with what you have in this life, like you said, which I think, like you wouldn't have heard these lyrics from you in 1994. - Yeah, you're right, I don't think we'd tell people they have one life and a blaze on, you might be right. You might be right. - You were doing it, you. - We were blazing. - We were experiencing it, now you're talking about it. - So blaze on itself, which by the way, quickly replaced lick the coil as something I write when people ask me to sign their ticket or something. - I think it's better. - I think it's better, it's like obviously better. - It's a better choice. - But blaze on, you know, Trey didn't necessarily want to advocate smoking weed, but he's certainly not against it. And I think he was amused by the thought that it could become a legalization anthem or war cry. And I'm involved in the New Jersey legislation, sorry, New Jersey legalization movement, but we never really adopted blaze on as our theme song. In fact, I don't know if we have a theme song. I'd love it to be the theme song of New Jersey legalization. - And Trey loves the humor of it 'cause every time he sings it, he cracks up. Almost every time at the line coming up. - For a particular line that's coming up, right. So the storm is passing through, lay down your sticks and stones that struggles over now. We're all just flesh and bones. We were wrong before, it was wrong to trust the shadows cast were only light and dust. And then one day you find here intense delight that three wrong turns can really make a right. So that's, you know, purposefully misinterpreting the three rights make a left rule. And then, so why not be like me, be proud of all your crimes? 'Cause when I screw up once, I do it two more times. And what do you guys think about that one? - I always love it. It's true for all of us, I think. - Yeah, and to me, this is just another like, you know, be content with who you are and what you do 'cause, you know, you got one life. I really like it. And this part, particularly like those lines, I think, are the, if you watch the audience at a fish show or like where you get the biggest reaction in the song. - Well, yeah, it's funny that you say that because that line, Trey and I talked about for quite a while. And Trey was kind of thinking, you know, maybe that making fun of his past or admitting to crimes in lyrics, so to speak, maybe was something he shouldn't do, but we also both recognize a good line in a song and I could tell that there wasn't a lot of fight in him. He kind of wanted, you know, actually did want to sing it, but he just didn't want it to come off wrong or, you know, another thing we struggled with is maybe he and I thought it was a lot funnier than it really is and then that one would look really stupid. Something like that, but it turns out we were right, it was, you know, the line of the song clearly. And I'm glad he, you know, got over that hump and the audience really identifies with Trey when he sings it and it's like, you know, Trey is someone who truly owns up to his very public life and scrutiny and so he does put himself out there and sort of owns his crimes when, you know, when he says it. - He learned from his crimes too and that's why he can do it. - Absolutely, yeah. And I don't know and it's a good message. Yeah, it's a good message, it's a good message. And speaking of putting it all out there, the three of us are seeing a movie tomorrow about Trey, which, if what I've heard is true, could also be intensely personal. - I'm sure it will be. - Yup. - I'm excited, I see it. - Film crew, yeah, I'm excited to see it. A film crew has been following him around for about two years, it's incredible. So, and then it goes to the bridge. We'll be dancing in the fields, running through the moor, tripping on the barbed wire, buried near the shore. Blazing, oh, by the way, tripping on the barbed wire said, tripping to some people is a drug reference. It wasn't meant to be. And blazing, you know, there's two drug references, I guess, in this song. It's a drug song, it's a vicious drug truck. Blazing like a comet brighter than the full moon. So you better get ready 'cause it changes coming soon. And I remember that comet, and I know the name of the comet 'cause it's got a cool name of the guy who discovered it. The comet was called Comet Love Joy. And it passed close to the earth right around the time we wrote this song, and it's magnitude, it was brighter than the moon, than the full moon. So you could see it with the naked eye for about a month as it came into the solar system. - Oh, wow. - Yeah. And then this one has nothing to do with the current administration. I met a liar called the Messiah. It seems like it does, but I-- - It was written well before that he'd be, you know. - Yeah, it was written before-- - Went on a run. The liar became a Messiah to some people. I got the frying pan. I wanted fire. I saw a red dress. RJ, you asked me about this one a lot. - Yeah. - I saw a red dress. I met a daughter. I got the quicksand. I prayed for water. Why does that one ring out to you? - I mean, I'd love the bridge in general all of this, but so these four lines particularly starting with a meta liar, it's like you were looking, you're looking for something and you found something else, right? I mean, that's pretty clear in the, I got the frying pan. I wanted fire in the quicksand. I prayed for water. And the red dress I met a daughter to me was a, or I've wondered if it's like a, I see a woman in a red dress and then I realize as an older person with a daughter that that person is a daughter also sort of thing, like which is just kind of coming to grips with getting old. But I don't know if that's actually what he meant. - Yeah, actually, I think that's close. I think what I was thinking, and I don't know if I ever told Trey, but I think he, no, I think he knows. I think I did tell him what I meant by it 'cause he asked. It's like a person who, and it's like been in movies, and I don't know if I actually know anyone that this occurred to, but you're theoretically having a relationship with the red dresser, that's the person you're supposed to be falling in love with until you meet the daughter and you have a better connection with her kind of. - Got it, got it. - Or are more attracted to the daughter and that's like scandalous or something. So I saw a red dress, I met a daughter, I got the quicksand, I prayed for water. So that's Blaze on, and I'm glad you asked about that 'cause it is, it's one of my favorite lyrically of the newer batch. - And it's always fun when it, you hear those first chords and you just know that we're getting Blaze on. - It jams out pretty well. - It really loves it. - Right, RJ, there's plenty of jam, examples of Blaze on. - Yeah, and I think with this and everything's right more recently, like a couple of these songs you guys wrote in the past few years have turned out to be great, great jam vehicles, which is cool, you know, for those of us who like fish jams, which there are a few of us. (laughing) - Right, I'm a song guy, no jams for me. - That's a song. - So it works. - All right, Tom, when you write these, do you know, like, you mentioned The Bridge, which I think people know what part of the song that is, is that something that you know lyrically, or is it just, to those things come together later? - Oh, that's interesting. No, I often write just flat, meaning everything could look like a verse, and then sometimes we'll write the B section or a chorus as an additional exercise, kind of, 'cause once you've written a song and the verse fits into it, you wanna change in like your mind naturally needs a change. And of course, the experts at it were, you know, the Beatles, listened to one of those songs, you know, I defy you to find one that goes all the way through without at least two amazing changes in it. So it's just standard for Trey and I to expect a change of some kind, and indeed this one followed the same pattern. That B section we wrote, I think, even a day or two, or maybe even a week after the structure of the song came together. - Oh, nice, cool. - Onto the next one. So this one is Tebow, I think, wanted me to, well, I'll let you tell me Tebow, what song? - Waiting in the Belvitz Sea. - Ah, you wanna first hear the original version? - Well, is this the original, original version? - Yes. - With just you and Trey and the, where were you? - Oh, okay, that's a great question. So yes, this is the original, original version and these batch of songs, three sessions that Trey and I did in '97 were, we call the farmhouse sessions, but it also was called Trampled by Lambs and Pek by the Dove and put into maybe a 30 song CD at the time, I think came out in 2000 and Beth in the fish world had a lot to do with the, she wrote the liner notes, she also like put the songs together and decided which ones to be on there. And it was really a compilation of all these songs. Many of them wound up on a farmhouse and story of the ghost eventually. But so this particular night, waiting in the Belvitz Sea was the first of those three and I think it was back in March of '97 in Stauve, Vermont. So we called this session Pek by the Dove. So there are other songs in that that became fish songs. We were like very prolific for these sessions. So Olivia's pool became shafty. - Right. - And then Olivia's pool became an amphibian staple. - Right. - And Piper saw it again, limb by limb, ghost, dog stole things, waiting in the velvet sea. - For lithic. - And then the last one was, if I could be a sailor. - Oh, right. - Which is, I don't think ever became a fish song but Trey grabbed it once. If I remember right, I think I just told someone else in another podcast that it was at golf shores. But if, as I was saying it, I think instead it was when Trey played at Newport Folk Festival. - That's, you and I went to that. - 2008. - And he did play it. - Yes. - And he just took out a few lyrics. He changed it up a little bit. - There's some bad lyrics in that. - Someday maybe you'll hear the original one. - I don't know, there's some bad sort of vulgar lyrics that are so childish. It's not like anything exciting like Frank's over. - But again, we're just trying to make each other laugh and it makes me laugh every time I hear it. But it was definitely played at Newport and it was really pretty. It's a beautiful, pretty summer afternoon on the dock kind of song and till you get to the lyrics that are a little. - Yeah, but thankfully he didn't sing them. And then also I think that day he debuted another one which was Peggy and he dedicated it to me out on the work somewhere I was walking out there. But anyway, "Waiting in the Velvet Sea" from March of 1997. Let's hear the very original one. (upbeat music) ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ ♪ I've been waiting in the velvety ♪ (upbeat music) - Are you tired of being tired? Are you ready to get eight hours of unbroken sleep? If you answered yes to either of those questions, today's sponsor may be able to help. 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Sleep sound knowing that they stand behind their products. Sunset Lake CBD, farmer-owned, Vermont, grown. - Hi, this is Henry K., host to the number one music history podcast, Rootsland. Come with me on a journey to Kingston, Jamaica, where we explore the world of reggae music and the untold stories of some of the genre's greatest legends. From the ghettos in tenement yards where the music was born, to the island's iconic recording studios. We are so excited to team up with Osiris Media, the leading storyteller in music. Because as you'll hear, sometimes the story is the best song. All right, so I took a moment from my day, wrapped it up in things you say, and mailed it off to your address. So right away to me, and I can't think that anyone else would think anything different, but to me it's a straight up, kind of missing someone loves song, but they're far away, and so you send them some of your thoughts and memories. But there's some uncertainty, right? Because you'll get it pretty soon unless the packaging begins to break, and all the points I tried to make are tossed with thoughts into a bin, and time leaks out, and my life leaks in. So the uncertainty kind of in the relationship is, you know, brought on by the distance, and it's like, will the box of memories break in the mail? Will too much time pass while you're apart? Will life leak in? Will life get in the way of the relationship? And if that happens, more lyrics, you won't find moments in a box, and someone else will set your clocks. - Wait, stop there, because that's the two lines in it, in the whole thing that always get me. And it's-- - What's it to you? What does that mean to you? - I never can figure it out. It's just, it's the way it's worded, and it's always floored me. And one day I asked you for Christmas, I think you said, "What do you want for Christmas?" And I said, "All I want for Christmas are the fish lyrics," written down, waiting in the velvet sea. And for Christmas, you gave me the song written out on a piece of paper with your daughter and as illustrations all over it. And it's framed in my bathroom right now. But those are the two lines that I think when I first heard it with you in the car, after every time you would write lyrics with try you'd come home and play them. - Yeah. - For me, and that's the one that I remember vividly. It's always floored me. The whole song does, but that part-- - Well-- - That's always floored me. - Thank you. And it's also funny that you mentioned something I was just gonna say, which is, when I would drive home from those sessions, listening to every song a hundred times, listening to nothing else. The first person I would go to was you, 'cause that was like a tradition I had to play it for you. - Every writing session, I would be the first one to get to hear them, which is an honor. And you would sort of ask me, and I'm sure you ever tried, could care less what I say. But I would tell you what I thought. And I remember this saying, "This is gonna be a beautiful song." And I was right. - So lyrically, does that one, you won't find moments in a box when someone else will such a clocks mean anything to you, RJ, in particular? - Well, yeah. I mean, this whole song to me, there's like two fish songs where the lyrics are important to me and my wife. This is one of them and Silent in the Morning's the other. And like many fans at Coventry, when they played the song and Paige like couldn't get through the lyrics, it was like one of the most, like one of the saddest and most memorable fish moments ever. And my wife and I saw a show in 2010 when they played this and it was like, it had a whole different meaning for us personally and for the band, I think, at that time, which is, it's cool that this lives on, you know, and evolves, but like back in the 2004, it's like, I don't know, it feels to me like it's something's changing, obviously, and that this situation is gonna be different than it has been up to now. That's what like someone else will say your clocks means to me. - Yeah, well, to me, yeah, it doesn't have to be anything but that. You're right. And the big festival where I prefer to remember Velvet Sea was Sunrise at Big Cypress. - That sounds better. - The clouds were a Velvet Sea, a purple fluffy Velvet Sea. It was unbelievable. - It was beautiful. - It was just amazing. So those of us who did the work and stayed up with the band, you know, were rewarded with that amazing sunrise at Big Cypress. But to me, you know, this is like conveying the memories to someone in a distance relationship. And, you know, the box might have broken apart and you won't find moments now and someone else will set your clocks, you know, because someone else is life leaked in or something. And so my feeling is like if the box breaks open, you won't find the memories and the moments. And then possibly now someone else instead is setting your clocks or, you know, spending time with you. - Yeah. - And then the very end is, it just repeats. I took a moment from my day, wrapped it up in things you say and mailed it off to you. But thanks for framing those lyrics and still having it. I haven't seen that photo. I haven't seen that picture in a while. I gotta check it out. - Well, anytime you use my bathroom, you'll see it. (laughing) Glad it made it into your bathroom. - I do have one memory of that session. There's the word special in the original lyrics. Did that mean anything? And 'cause it's not in the song, obviously. - Right. - It's in the very first two lines, I think. - I know exactly what you're talking about. - I remember it. - Yep. And it's something that kind of happens as a product, sometimes of the way that train I write songs, which is often there's like a full sheaf of papers of my song ideas and lyric ideas. And I remember this in particular, before we actually settled on me singing this particular song, Trey had put on another track and I think he was playing guitar at the time and we kept the guitar and I think he was kind of humming to himself a different thing. And he was like reading another set of lyrics and it was like something like me, special, something, something. I've never found what those lyrics are, but it stayed in the version of it. - So you're singing the first, you're waiting in the bell to see a couple times and you hear special. - Yes. - And it's Trey. And then of course it never, it disappears. It's never in a live version. - Right. Well, ego-eyed, actually ego-eared listeners can probably hear that 'cause we just played the original version. All right, RJ, what's next? - Well, before we go to the next one, I need to amend the Blaison intro, or I just wanna say because I forgot to mention that a guy from Twitter, Richard Nash, who's here in DC, he also asked about Blaison and said that he had a theory about that those lyrics are somewhat biographical related to Trey, and I just wanna leave it there, but he did ask and so I wanna recognize him for asking. So, okay, should we move on to the next one? - Sure. - All right, so we got a lot of recommendations on Twitter to explore Life Boy, including from New York Mots, MATZ, and from Arthur, our friend Arthur, who's at Synth Funk on Twitter and a friend of ours. And I think that those lyrics hold a lot of meaning for a lot of people, especially people who have been seeing fish for a long time. So I think it'd be interesting to hear people, hear you dive into some of those. - Absolutely, and thanks Arthur. Arthur is a pal, and also thanks New York Mots. I'm not sure if I know you, but thanks for asking about Life Boy. So this song, I love this song a lot, and on my most recent podcast, the March 2019, I think, under the scales was with Trey's brother-in-law, Kevin Stacer, and he was actually with Trey, and I learned this during the interview, on Tortola in the Caribbean, when he wrote it, and he verified that Trey was on a payphone as we wrote it, way before cell phones, and I guess even phones in all the houses on the island existed. And that's sort of an important part, and I can see why he would remember that, because for this song, Trey and I probably had 20 to 25 phone conversations, separate ones, which would be, hey Tom, do you think that we should have this lyric here, or do you think this should do this? And I would tell him my idea, and then he'd go off and try to do it. He'd try to change it, and then he would call back and play that part to me and go, how's that? And then I would say, that's perfect. Now let's move on to the next, and add two more lyrics, and then he'd say, all right, I'll call you right back. And so we did that, and it took about a day, but it was many, many phone calls, and the weird thing is, and sadly, unfortunately, I don't have the original version. Either Trey just kept it in his head until he went to the studio, or if there was an original version, I never got it, but the first I ever heard was a demo, as they were recording in LA, they were recording Hoist. So I think that was probably in late 1993, and then Hoist came out in '94. But I want to play a snippet from one that I like, in particular, at Vanderbilt University from October 18th, 1994, because it's a real cool version that featured Bala Flak. (gentle music) ♪ What I mean is ♪ ♪ All the times that I mean ♪ ♪ I'm following the scene ♪ ♪ And all the thoughts I've learned ♪ ♪ So that I'll tell you how you're my friend ♪ (gentle music) ♪ But now I'm in a busy zone ♪ ♪ It's what I say, what I'm in a busy zone ♪ ♪ It's what I say, so good ♪ (gentle music) - You liked that version too, right, RJ? - Yeah, absolutely. All those '94, in fall '94, when they were doing, going through a lot of bluegrass guests and songs, was really, really cool. A lot of those shows are really memorable, but yeah, that's a good version. - Alison Krauss became one of those, right? - Yeah, I think so, and yeah, Baela Fleck and Jeff Mosher, and I think that's maybe the first time they came across Del McCurry and the McCurries and all kinds of stuff happened as a result. - Yeah, absolutely. So here's the lyrics, and by the way, this is one of my often most quoted songs. The God Never Listens part, I see quoted. - I think we've thought about that a couple of times. - We've thought, like, actually came to blows about it. But the first part is swinging on a lifeline, fraying bits of twine, entangled in the remnants of the nod I left behind, and asking you to help me make it finally unwind. And this is part of the original poem. There's kind of two parts to this. The song, definitely, I mean, I'm just gonna tell you my take on it, and you guys can tell me if you have something different, but it's sort of like despair by the narrator, obviously, and I just remember Trey and I, we had to reach for it because we had to reach deep into our memory at we're into fiction, because Trey was super happy at the time about fish and how fish is doing. Their audience is growing and their touring was getting bigger and the rooms they were playing were getting bigger, and I was doing well, I was in my first house, I had a baby on the way. So two happy guys using the concept of a line or a thread throughout the song as a lifeline starts to fray. And you're at the end of your rope, so to speak. And you need help, and you pray for help, and that doesn't seem to yield results ever for you. And then, you know, the part, which is, I remember we kind of wrote it. So the first part was part of a poem, and then there's another verse that's part of the poem, but this part, God never listens to what I say, God never listens to what I say, and you don't get a refund if you over pray. That we just wrote together on the phone. And, you know, some poetic license, I guess. Again, taken to substitute the fake word over pray into the refund over pay phrase. But a lot of religious people have said they don't like that line, like Tiba, very religious person, and I can see that. But just skip ahead to the next song on the album. - Exactly. - Sample in a jar. It's a much more hopeful topic. (laughing) What about you, RJ? - Yeah, I mean, it seems like sort of a valid critique of religion, to me, from my perspective, at least. But, you know, it is like, if you've ever been through any religious, you know, church or whatever with your parents or family or whatever, I think you probably had that same question of like, so what happens now? What am I supposed to do and what do I get in return? Just like, you know, most things in life. So I think it's okay, and I like it a lot. (laughing) I'm not sad about it. But I do think it's like pretty, it seems to me like a very overt, like kind of critique of organized religion, but maybe it was just more like to complete the song, but also that. - Yeah, I know, I can see that. I get it, it's a little, I guess a critique. I never fell into the religion. My parents weren't very religious. They, both Christians of some type, my mom, I guess, might be Lutheran being from Sweden and my dad was some type of Protestant, but never once went to any kind of church. Actually, I think we like belonged to a Sunday school briefly, the Unitarian church, Tiba knows it, on Cherry Hill. - Trinity. - I didn't belong to Trinity. Isn't that like Episcopalian or something? - Oh, yes, you're right, you're right. That's almost too strict for me. (laughing) - How about you, RJ, are you religious? - No, no, I've had similar, you know, went with my grandmother once in a while, and like, that's kind of it, you know? - Yeah. - But, yeah, I think that, so one question, do you know what happened to Life Boy? 'Cause we've only heard it four times since they came back in 2009, and I'm curious if it's just like many songs, sort of, you know, not in the rotation, or if there's anything else to it. I assume you, there's no, there's nothing else to it, but I figured it out. - I really, yep. - I really never understand the rotation of songs, like on the macro level, like how one sort of vanishes for a long time. - I would wager, no one knows. I bet most of them are just happenjans. - Yeah, it could be. - Too many new songs have to get played. - Right, the excitement of the new ones, that kind of thing. - And there's so many great songs that something's gonna get dumped for not on purpose and for a while, and then it'll come back. - Yeah, and every time it comes back, people are thrilled because then it's a bust out. - I will say that there were so many 94 and 95 shows with a life boy out of a tweezer jam, or after a Bowie jam, and I think it's just, it's one of those beautiful landing places after like a big jam that I think they should do it more, that's all. - Yeah, yeah, there's a couple songs that are breathers, clear breathers, and sometimes people don't like it. Like it interferes. I have always sensed that people do enjoy life boy for whatever reason. So it's a good choice. I agree, I don't think it should be out of rotation, but there it is. So just to finish up the lyrics, and when the line is breaking, again, more of the lifeline metaphor, and when I'm near the end, when all the time spent leading, I've been following instead, and all my thoughts and memories are left hanging by a thread. And then the bridge again. God never listens. And then the last part is the B section, or possibly the bridge. And again, the string, thread, lifeline theme is strong here. Stranded on this slender string, the minute seemed to last a lifetime, dangling here between the light above and blue below that drags me down. And then it ends with the instrumental, and then again, God never listens to what I say is how they sort of, they play out over some real cool music. But the funny thing, I don't know if you guys either of you know this. This, the name Life Boy, probably because of Lawn Boy, and combining it with the lifeline idea. So Life Boy, and it was kind of like a silly name, and it was the second of eventually four boy song titles that Trey and I wrote. Can you guys come up with the other two? (laughing) One is almost cheating, 'cause it's not a fish song. But the other one is on this actually same album on Hoist. - Oh. - You want a blank? - Wait, what? - It is. Dog Face Boy. - Oh, Dog Face. - Oh, of course. Shit. - It's Dog Face, not Dog Face Boy. (laughing) - Sorry people who are listening, we suck. - Yeah, yeah. - Oh, not so much. And then the very last one, like I said, is cheating, it's on, I think Trey's album actually couldn't tell you if this is true or not. I think it's on paper wheels, and it's called "Lever Boy." - Oh, right, no it is, it is. - That's on paper wheels. And then Trey, when "Lever Boy" came out, he said, "This is the fourth of the boy song trilogy." (laughing) - Boy. - So we have Life, Life Lawn, Dog and Lever. - Dog. - Amazing. - It's cool. - Isn't that the end of that song, when they were in the studio, marching around. - Yes. - With the wooden, making that wooden block sound almost. - It was in that 23-minute video. - Yes, I think it was. - That they released many years ago. - Yeah, I think Mike took - Yes. - Live video of their session, a parts of their session, which was, I think out in LA, like I said, with one of those sound effects was actually them marching in bins of kitty litter, I think. - Right, and they was making that. - And it was having that (imitates) sound at the very end. - Funny thing, it's a great little snippet of studio life. You wanna ever watch it, I'm sure it's on YouTube. - Yeah, it probably is. What's up, RJ, what's next? - All right, well, we're gonna lighten the topic a little bit and go from a song about "God" to another song about "God." (laughing) Which, we got a lot of comments on "Bug." It's one of my favorite songs. - My friend. - Our friend. - I'll chime in, mine too. - T-Bose to our friend Wolf and House on Twitter, who is a really good dude and a big fan. He threw this out there, and it's just, it's not like the, it's short, you know? There's not a ton of lyrics, and in some ways, they're more straightforward maybe than some others, but I think it's, I feel like it's a very good representation of your lyrics put to music. Like, most of them are, but I feel like this one, like, particularly works really well. - I'm glad you think that this was one that I just talked about when Mike asked me about songwriting, so at the end of my Mike podcast, which he was on "Under the Scales" in February, we talked a bit about getting obsessed in the studio, and "Bug" was the example I used, and "Trainer" I overdid it a bit, and tried some weird studio effects that ended up taking a lot of time, and didn't really contribute to the music or the song, and for us, time is the commodity, 'cause it's hard to schedule three days together for songwriting, it's even harder these days, but it was starting to even get hard for us to sync up our lives back then in '97, when this one was written, but it's still a priority in our lives to songwriting, and we love it, but we try to maximize our songwriting output, and "Bug" simply took too long, and if you listen, we'll play this version, and this again is from the original 1997 version in "Stovermont," and if you listen carefully to the first verse, you can hear our voices bouncing back and forth from your left ear to the right, or listen in headphones, and we changed on every single syllable in the first verse, so even a song like "There've Been Times" that I wander, and even wander as a two syllable word is broken up from the left ear to the right ear. ♪ There've been times that I wanted to learn ♪ ♪ And times that I don't ♪ ♪ 'Cause it's a hard day ♪ ♪ And concepts I won't ever see ♪ ♪ 'Cause it's one of these ♪ ♪ For all the latter ♪ ♪ Which did you think I had ♪ ♪ It doesn't matter to me ♪ ♪ I don't need it ♪ ♪ I don't need it ♪ ♪ But it doesn't matter ♪ ♪ But it doesn't matter ♪ - And it was so time consuming. Yeah, we were kind of getting almost to the point where we threw the song out. And I'm so glad we didn't because, like you said, it really came out, it turned out to be a great song, but for a while it was like the cause of consternation. And as you can see, I'll redo the list of songs that we did during that session. Normally there's about 10. This one, there's only four because of all the time we waste, and it's farmhouse, bug, blue and shiny, and sleep, so blue and shiny never became a fish song, but people know it 'cause it was on trampol-- - Right. - Trampol bonus. - Yeah. - Of the dove. All right, anything else RJ or should we dive into the lyrics? - No, I think we should dive into it. I have a question about the chorus, but let's, I guess we can get there. - Okay. So first I was kind of wondering what to say about it, but I'm just gonna dive in and see what to say. I don't really know what to say, but I have the lyrics here in front of me. There have been times, and they have this wrong. Actually, there have been times that I wander, and it's actually wander. - Oh yeah. - There have been times that I wonder, and times that I don't, concepts I'll ponder, and concepts I won't ever see. God, again. - Again. - Isn't, is not one of these, former or latter. Which did you think I meant? It doesn't matter to me. So I'll start before you, before, I know you're gonna question me on this one, RJ, and probably TiVo, you look like you're about to, but this part, if you think about it, like logically, it's a confusing sort of double negative. And again, God is involved, even though there's not, like I said, any God in my life, (laughs) when we were talking about life, boy. But the concept, so the concepts I'll ponder and concepts I won't ever see, and God is not one of these, former or latter. So either you think that God is not a concept I'll ponder, or you think that God is not something I won't ever see. So in a way, it's, right? So in a way, it means either you think I believe in God, or you think I don't, and it doesn't matter to me. Did that make sense? - In Tom lyrics, ways, it does. (laughs) - Do you understand at least the logic behind it, RJ? - Yeah, I mean, I think like this song to me is just like, it's like, don't overthink things, you know? That's like what I take away from it. But then there's such a huge release of in the chorus of the song that it's like, it's sort of like to me, yeah, just don't overthink and just, you know, go with the flow. - Totally, 'cause it doesn't matter. - Yeah. (laughs) - So bug, it doesn't matter, don't need it, bug, it doesn't matter, don't feed it, bug, it doesn't matter. Overrated. (laughs) My thoughts faded, then overrated. And it's kind of funny because bug became the code name of the song. We knew in the chorus part when we wrote, and this one again, very similar to Life Boy, the poem was split into two, and then we wrote the chorus separately. So the poem itself was, there've been times out of wonder, concept of self-honder, concept of self-honder, concept of self-honder, concept of self-honder, and then gold in my hand in the country pool, but the chorus, the bug, it doesn't matter, was something that we wrote, and we kind of, like, as a placeholder, we knew we wanted to shout something, 'cause there was, like you said, a big release moment, and we just went like, ah, or bug, and it became the code name of the song, and then we were shouting to the mics, and that's just trusting the muse. We started saying, we started saying bug, you know, you're trusting that the inspiration will come right at the moment, you need it. So when we press record, we just, I think Trey yelled bug, or something, and we liked it, and we laughed, and it's a symbol of a lot of things. It's a living thing, you know, it's a transformative animal, and bug became the song, as much as the song became the bug, and there's no other real way to describe it. - Yeah, and it's interesting that, like, this song that's about don't, you know, don't worry too much or don't overthink is the song that you guys spent the most time overthinking. - Worrying about and overthinking it. (laughing) - Precisely, precisely. So this next part is, I remember when I wrote this part, not knowing that it would ever be in a fish song, and I was sort of like a lonely part. Anyway, gold in my hand in a country pool, standing and waving, the rain, wind on the runway, spending or saving, credit or debt, which did you think I meant? Nothing I see can be taken from me, and to me, we try and I tweaked a few syllables. It wasn't written exactly like that, but the basic form and structure is still there from the original. And it's always to me like a self-realization part of your life, you know, you're waving to someone who's leaving you or you're leaving on the runway, there might be leaving in a plane, and it's the beginning of a period of loneliness. But at the same time, you realize how completely free you're about to be, like free of the burden of ownership of anything. It's like nothing I can see, nothing I see can be taken because I don't own anything. The departure of that person has left you completely free. So even though it's lonely, you've been given, you've been granted freedom in a way. - Wow. - There it is. Nothing I see can be taken from me, RJ. - That is, that's cool. - It's true. - This is, yeah, this is really fascinating. And I do think like just the way that this song is performed and what Corroda does with the lights and just, you know, the live performance of it is just so awesome. And I should say that our friend Craig, during this thread of asking about input, he linked to a YouTube video of the first time this song was played live by anyone. And that was an amphibian show, which we should maybe link to in the end of the scales post. - Was it in Vermont or was it in the desert? Sound show or? - I think it was in, I don't think it was higher ground. I'll find out and we'll post, we should post the link to it. - Well, it did become a staple of yours for a little while. - Yeah, we played Bug for a long time and that was like an amphibian 1.0 when I still played keyboards. I can't wait to hear that. - I think it might have been, there's a chance it was at the campus club in Providence. - Oh, right. - February 3rd, 1999, I think that's it. - Prince University. - Good old Princeton University. - That was one of those super desirable gigs. If you can get into those, they're called eating clubs, there's no fraternities at Princeton. And if you get them at the beginning of the year when they like all the red Princeton kids. - They had their budget. - They have an amazing full budget and they, all the bands jump on them, all the band managers, and I was the manager. So I like ran through there and tried to get, you know, score one of those gigs. - Blues traveler, loved that gig 'cause it was a great payday and fun and local. And I think wean and amphibians, spin doctors, yep, lawn parties. - So that was Princeton, campus club. - Yep, Princeton campus club, cool. I remember that gig. I remember everything about the music. - All right, next song, next and last song, I think. - Yeah, so the next and last song is Horn. Our friend Amar, I'm asked about this. And there, he has some theories on the lyrics that I think are beyond like what you read online in terms of lyric explanations. - Wait, wait, wait, I wanna say first, thanks Amar. And he's the guy from Anatomy of a Jam and he's @brahminnoodles on Twitter. And also he's the host of The Drop, which is the new news podcast for Osiris. It's a weekly podcast. And Amar does the video version and you, RJ, do a wonderful sort of extended, slightly different audio version as well every week. - Thank you. - You're welcome. - That's true. - It's wonderful. - Amar is amazing. And I don't wanna like give his whole theory away. Maybe should I wait or should I ask you about the theory? What do you think? Or do you wanna tell me about the lyrics first? - The theory goes first. - I think theory first. And in fact, I think the version of Horn that we should hear right now before the theory is the album version because it's so effing great. - It's so clean. (laughs) - All right, here we go. ♪ I want to ♪ ♪ Come home ♪ ♪ Now the truth deceived me ♪ ♪ And played my name around ♪ ♪ And hung those nasty flyers ♪ ♪ On all the buildings in town ♪ ♪ Driveled my possessions ♪ ♪ In a ring around the earth ♪ ♪ And bought and sold my self-control ♪ ♪ For less than it was worth ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Now I know the reason ♪ ♪ That I'm feeling so full of ♪ ♪ I'll pick you up at eight as usual ♪ ♪ Listen for my horn ♪ - Oh man, I love that. I really love that. All right, let's hear what Amar has to say about his theory. Cool, I'm just gonna read what Amar wrote, which is, I love the theory that the lyrics to Horn are an allegory to the way fish was courted/treated by record companies back in the day. And that quote, "Bodden sold my self-control," unquote, line ties it all together. At the end of the song, the main character, the band, still goes on his date, signs a record deal, despite all the abusive crap he's been put through, because that's the business. Not sure if that's been talked about, but I'd love to hear Tom's view on that theory. (laughs) So the band is being courted by the record company. That's interesting. And then they bought and sold the self-control, and then the main character, he said, was the band, still goes on the date and signs the deal. (laughs) That's awesome. That's great, Amar. Well, I do wanna answer that in a way. Well, the old Tom, and Tebow knows this, the old Tom didn't like to mandate a meaning to a song to anyone, and especially if they've done the work. That's what I used to say, like fish makes you work for the lyrics, makes you work to understand lyrics, and also sometimes makes you work to understand the music. And that's why when fish fans become fish fans and they surrender to it, they're true fans, because they've done the work. And so, if you've done the work and it ascribed your own meaning to it, that was yours. But I would never ever say that you're wrong, because how could they be? But the old Tom would actually go kind of too far and say, yes, that is exactly what it's about, which is true, Amar, it is. (laughs) But it also implies that I think that too, which wasn't always the case. But my point is, this is a lyrics episode, and it would be disingenuous if I simply agreed with you, Amar. And the podcast was there. Press, press, Amar, you're right. Thanks for coming. But I do love the interpretation, and yes, that's what it is about for you, but for me, when I wrote it anyway, it really was what it says on the surface. There's exaggeration in it, of course, but it's really about a relationship I knew about, where I couldn't believe the abuse from the girlfriend to my pal, but then the continued willingness to accept the abuse. And it's a standard thing we see and we sort of don't know how much to interfere. You can't really interfere. But anyway, here it goes. So now that you deceive me and played my name around and hung those nasty flyers on all the buildings in town, that's kind of like preceding internet and Facebook. Like after a breakup? You're dating yourself. (laughs) Dribbled my possessions in her ring around the earth. That's when she throws out all your stuff onto the lawn. (laughs) And bought and sold myself control for less than it was worth. Now I know the reason that I'm feeling so for Lauren. - SAT word. - For Lauren, yes. (laughs) I'll pick you up at eight as usual, listen for my horn. Meaning now that I've identified the thing that's making me most upset, I'll just come and pick you up on a date as like usual. Everything will be fine. Back to normal. (laughs) - You got that one, RJ? Are you with a mar? (laughs) - I had the more simple interpretation, but I appreciate the allegory that a mar is referring to. (laughs) - Is yours closer to mine? Like just a relationship? - Yeah, that's what I've always understood it as. I've always understood it as just like yeah, about a relationship. - Nice. - And I thought it was about climate change. (laughs) - Well, if you listen to future versions of under the scales, and I don't like getting political, but there's a chance we are gonna be talking about climate change, but that's not going to be the topic. It will be one thing that's discussed. - Great. - But very, very briefly. - I'm excited. - Yeah. - That's a good preview. - That's the only preview I'm gonna give. (laughs) RJ, what else do we need to preview? What kind of work do we have to do, you know, housekeeping work, OSIRIS work? - I guess I would just say, thanks, Tebow, I think you saw all the replies to this question, and man, so many people threw their thoughts out there. Maybe we can do a part two if people like it, you know, it was cool to see. - It'd be great if we could maybe open it up a little more to the internet, and only three people were rewarded, and RJ and myself were rewarded. - So you're saying do this again? - I think we should do it again, and I guess maybe I should say it now, at the end, that under the scales is part of the OSIRIS network, which is a network of music and culture podcasts and more, and you can learn more at OSIRISpod.com. - Thank you so much for saying that, because as we like to say, if you don't say it, we get in trouble. I actually have to pay a fine. - Yep, big fine. - All right, well, thank you so much, Tebow. - Thanks for having me. - Yep, and thank you so much, RJ. - Yeah, this is awesome. - And thanks Matt, who's gonna be doing a tiny bit of editing on this, which is unusual for me. It's usually me, but I'm gone for the next five days, or something like that. So Matt is stepping in. Matt Dwyer, good old Matt Dwyer from HFPOD. Thank you, Matt. (bell dings) (upbeat music) - This podcast is in the loop, the Legion of OSIRIS podcasts. OSIRIS is creating a community that connects people like you with live experiences and podcasts about artists and topics you love. Get in the loop at OSIRIS POD.com. Bowie, Dylan, Marley. You've heard the names and maybe you've heard their songs, but what about the stories behind the records that make titans of music like these so universally loved and important? Join me, Josh Adam Myers hosts the 500. It's each week I go through a different album from Rolling Stone Magazine's 500 Greatest Albums list in 2012 with an incredible lineup of comedians, actors, and musicians talking about how the music has impacted their lives. New episodes of the 500 come out every Wednesday. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - What's up, everybody? I am Finn Mckente, host of the punk rock NBA podcast, part of the Sound Talent Media podcast network. My podcast is all about doing what you love for a living and every week I sit down and talk to people who have done exactly that. For example, musicians like Tommy from Between the Buried Me, Matt from Periphery, Lolotus and Shinigami, among many others, photographers, artists, designers, YouTubers, like Glenn Fricker and Sarah Deachy, and I unpack exactly how they got to where they are today with the goal of helping you do the same. So if that sounds cool, you can listen and subscribe at soundtalentmedia.com and I'll see you there.
