Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 661
(upbeat music) - Welcome back and everyone to a fantastic new Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. We are so excited to be welcoming back friends of the show Citygate Productions and two amazing artists associated with them to talk about a fabulous show perfect for spooky season. Joining us today, we've got the playwright Vincent S. Hanham and the director Jordan Charlie Watley. They're here of course to talk to us about Citygate Productions presentation of Frankenstein. This is happening October 18th through the 27th at the Secret Theater in Queens, and you can get your tickets and more information by visiting citygateproductions.org. We are so excited about having these two guests join us today. We're very excited about having this company with us, which is put on such great shows. We had them recently on for "12 Angry Men." And now we're bringing you a fabulous, like I said, show for the Halloween season. So with that, let us welcome on our guests, Vincent Jordan, welcome into Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. - Thank you, it's good to be here. - Agreed, very excited to chat with both of you and Andrew to meet you and be on stage Whisper. - I'm so excited to have you two here because spooky season is upon us. One of my favorite times of year, if not my favorite time of year. And you've got a classic story of Frankenstein coming to us, but in a new way, so Jordan, I wanna start with you. 'Cause this is a new, should we say adaptation or new version of the piece? Why don't you tell us a little bit about this? - Yeah, this production of Frankenstein is going to be a nice, nice, intimate, I think athletic production. I went with this adaptation of Frankenstein specifically. So I found it hunting on new play exchange and I had gone through a lot of different versions of Frankenstein before landing on this one. And there are a lot of adaptations out there and not a lot of them that I like very much. A lot of adaptations I think really rely heavily on the movie or rely very heavily on almost magic, like actual necromancy in bringing back the monster. Or, I can list everything that I didn't like about those productions, but this one I felt really moved. It didn't try to overstay its welcome in any one moment. It was, I think most importantly, it still found time to tell jokes, which I think is very important in horror. I think comedy and horror are two sides of the same coin, if not tumultuous bedfellows. That's what makes Jordan Peele so such a fantastic director. Yeah, so I'm hoping that this, I'm hoping, it will be a exciting, I think, very athletic production of Frankenstein. - That's fantastic. Now Vincent, I'm gonna bring you in for the next question because you're the playwright. You've written this great new version of this classic tale. So what inspired you to pen this? - So much. I've always lived with the Frankenstein story since I was a kid, even before I knew I wanted to be an actor. I grew up on the old universal films with Boris Karloff. And then when I was older, I did read Mary Shelley's novel and kind of to what Jordan was saying, there's no surprise in saying there's so much more in the book than any film adaptation you're gonna come across. And as a young person at one time, you're filled with this fiery ambition to change the world, but you're also struggling with your place in that world. And there's so much that's bigger than you, really existential. And Mary Shelley is able to package all these very complicated themes into this story. And about 10 years ago, I was commissioned by a touring theater company in New Hampshire, Hamstead Stage, they're no longer around, but they specialized in literary adaptations. And I knew the artistic director and he commissioned me to adapt Frankenstein. So I said, perfect, dream come true there. I went to school for theater and found my, I think I found my calling as a writer. And so I adapted that as a one act. And then over the past 10 years, through subsequent productions, the play has grown into the full length now that you will see at Citygate Productions. - I love that. And I could not agree more with you when it comes to adapting books and the films and such. So Jordan, let me back to you. I mean, at the time of this recording, we're just about a month away from the premiere of the show. What has it been like developing this piece and getting it up on its feet? - Oh man, it's been a long time coming and fast and furious at the same time. I pitched the show to Citygate a little over a year now. And I think I had just, you know, we had put pen to paper and signed on it probably just about a year now, a year ago now. And we started looking spaces last October. I think we really started having like serious conversations, particularly about, you know, what are we gonna make this monster? What are we gonna make him look like talking with makeup designers? I think we started those conversations back in, I guess, technically December, but we started really having those conversations back in February. And it was a, you know, a slow roll at the top of the year. And then once we hit summer, let's say roughly late spring, early summer, that's when we were really, you know, picking up our feet, nose to the grindstone, finding designers, how are we gonna do casting? All of that. And then we just sort of rehearsal. It's crazy. It's one of those situations where, 'cause like we just started rehearsal, but I think we actually started like three weeks ago in the last week of August. So it's, you know, it's been, always have a weird perception of time to rehearsal, but it's been a lot of fun. It has been, it should be no surprise that with any adaptation, there is so an endless amount of table work to be done. And we don't always have the luxury of time to do all of that as we start doing, what I think a lot of people call on your feet table work, but I usually just call that blocking. - Yeah, and it's been a lot of exploring the physical relationships, especially since we'll be working in such a tight space. How do we effectively utilize that space? And what story does that tell? So it's been a lot of playing, a lot of figuring out five different ways of how something doesn't work, but why did we feel that impulse in the first place? What is that impulse and how can we sharpen it? And it's also been a huge relief because all of these rehearsals are, you know, the late in the evening after, you know, people coming from work. So it's a nice way to end the day, I think, with raising the dead. - I love that. - Yeah, I love that, that's a great way to hire a job. That's one I wanna see the job description, you know. Nine to five, commute into work three days a week, raise the dead, you know. It's a simple thing. - Yeah. (laughs) - Yeah. - Now Vincent, I wanna come back to you because as I've mentioned, you're the playwright of the piece of this classic tale, this well-known story. With your version, what is the message or thought you hope audiences take away from it? - I'm crossing my fingers for this one, I'm hoping I got it right. (laughs) - I could go in a lot of different directions. But when you ask me that question, the first thing I think about is, there's an exchange in this, in my play, between Victor and Elizabeth. And they have both had an equal hand in bringing this creature to life. And subsequently, abandoning it to its own fate, presumably to die alone in the woods. And they're having this exchange. And thematically what it comes down to this exchange is that they realize what would have happened had they just been kind to this creature, that they not immediately judged it for its appearance, for its unruly behavior by their own societal standards. Had they just been more sympathetic. And I think about that a lot these days, I'm a teacher with a high schooler, so it takes a lot of sympathy. And I'm always practicing it. And I have a 10 month old daughter now of my own. And that's how the play changes, right? As I started this 10 years ago, I did not have kids in my life in any way shape or form. But now as a parent and as an educator, gosh, how can we move the world forward if we're just a little kinder each and every day? - I love that answer. - I love that answer. Thank you for that. - Yeah, I did what I could. - Lord, I'm gonna come to you for our final question in this first part, because as the director and the one channeling all of this vision and such, who are you hoping have access to this piece? - I typically, I'll say all of my work. I like to think that a lot of my work is geared towards young adults who I think have for a number of reasons, been not as invited to the theater as I think older generations have. And it's just not a common practice, you know? And I think, I feel like I could find a better way to say this, but like make theater fun, you know, make it approachable. You know, how can we do a tight, spry 90 minutes show? And so that's who I'm hoping to bring in, you know, young folks that haven't really given it a chance, don't really feel a connection to this art form, you know, bringing in something that they might, you know, tangentially recognize. And see like, hey, yeah, theater like can be fun, you know? It's fun to enjoy something and earnest and suspend my disbelief for an hour and a half to two hours for one night a week. That's who I'm really hoping to reach out to and get into this space. I've worked for theaters that have put themselves in a tight spot financially because their subscriber base and donor base was literally dying. - Yeah. - You know, it's all very wealthy folks that, and then one year they were getting a lot of money, but it was all from estates. So that was kind of the end of that money. Yeah, figuring out how we can make theater accessible again. - Could I elaborate a little bit more on that? - Yes, please. - And apologies if I'm on a soapbox, but I think we can all share room on that soapbox. I, as a writer, I specialize in genre storytelling. And if you're a movie-goer, that's very familiar to you. Science fiction, horror, Westerns. You know, anything just beyond your more, I don't know, traditional comedy and dramas that you, that I think are the bulk of the theater seasons in this country. And that's fine, I love that stuff. That's what I grew up on. That was what made me become an actor. But I think we can, I think there's an opportunity to shake up expectations, especially with younger people. I'm like, what theater can be? What types of shows can you see? You can see monster plays. You can see sci-fi. I mean, this is the place where our imagination can go hog wild. So let's do it. I've never used the term hog wild before. But you never know. I want the expectation now with theater to be like, maybe, maybe you will actually see something you've never seen before on stage. You didn't think you could see, but there it is. - Yeah, I think with, I like the phrasing of it, specifically as a genre play, because I think that also, I think opens up a field of spectacle in the design that I feel like for a lot of theater practitioners, spectacle has almost become a dirty word. When I think theaters look cool, you know? And I think people seeing theater look cool. Whatever cool means to you and your design team. Yeah, you know, I think it's great. I think if you have a show with three actors and a table and they really just act the hell out of that play, that's great. But spectacle wasn't a part of ours, Poetica on accident. So I think that's being specific and branching out of, you know, the realism, comedies and dramas have a little fun. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) For the second part of our interview, we love giving our listeners a chance to get to know our guests a little bit better. Pick your brains, if you will. And I want to start with our regular first question, which is, what are who inspires you? What playwrights, composers or shows have inspired you in the past or just some of your favorites? And Vincent, if I can start the second part with you, that would be great. - Yeah, okay. I'll try to keep it to a reasonable length. So just like in general, when I got into the theater in high school, I was such a nerd. I soaked up Eugene O'Neill, Tennessee Williams, Arthur Miller, all those, I was gonna say realistic writers, but no, there's such a tinge of poetry. And I think spectacle in a lot of their plays, especially O'Neill, I draw a lot of inspiration from him. But in terms of genre storytelling, I mean, Mary Shelley, obviously, but a lot of film directors inspire me in the themes that they explore. James Whale was the director of 1931's Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein. He finds a lot of that camp humor in his movies, but also grounding this spectacle in relationships. Same with Guillermo del Toro, Steven Spielberg. And it's just that idea of, this can be a bigger-than-life story, but what's the human drama? What are the human relationships? And whatever story I'm writing, I'm still an actor at heart. I'm doing the beatwork for all my characters and making sure it's rooted in a really dynamic sort of relationship way. - That is a great answer. Some wonderful names on that list. Thank you for that. Jordan, how about you? What are who inspires you? - Yeah, I think in terms of directors, the first one that comes to mind is Rachel Chapkin, who I had the pleasure of working with on the Thanksgiving play last Broadway season. And if anyone who's listening that knows me personally, I'll sound like a broken record. I talk about her, I name drop her any given opportunity, partly because I think it's hilarious to name drop people. But I don't think I really knew what I wanted a career as a director to look like until I work with her because she's very loved. - I think she has found a way to balance theatricality and not explicitly trying to do something real or on stage. I think a lot of times with a lot of shows, there's such a strong effort to recreate real life on stage or to make something look as real and seamless as possible. And I always like to respond to that with, I bought a ticket. I know this isn't real life. I paid money to be here. I know they're just actors. And the way that Rachel plays with theater and pushes those boundaries, she has a great attitude towards the fourth wall. And that is, if it's there, it's a very thin pane of glass, but preferably it's not really there at all. And not necessarily in like a Brechtian way where it's like, oh, we're gonna have the actors talk directly to the audience. Like they're a part of the show, but still engaging them in part of the show because theater doesn't happen without an audience and they should be a part of the show. I think another director who I really look up to in respect is Daniel Ocken, who just did stereophonic and his way of working and just, I guess what I was talking about earlier in mining every single little impulse for some grain of truth, whether it's completely off the mark or unplayable, there was a reason you had that impulse. So let's find it and see what the truth is to that. And just some really nice like fine detailed beatwork there. I'm so glad Vincent that you brought up, Guillermo del Toro, I use my writer die, film director. There's just such an insane amount of heart and detail work and everything that he does that I just adore, you know? Yeah, it's, I just, I love all this, all this detail work. I think all of three of these directors is really embodied. I think it was Sondheim who said that God is in the details and I fully agree. And it always makes you wish I had one extra week of rehearsal, but you get done. As long as the show's ready by October 28th, you know? Right. You know where the details you wanted to get, but then you realize, oh, okay, does the audience know that? Yeah. But I do not say that to in any way undercut what you've shared 'cause I agree 100%. That's why we do what we do because we're a little crazy for those details. Yeah, and I do think it is so much fun to finally and lovingly craft this very specific object and then just toss it into the hands of someone else and they get by the time it lands in their hands, it's something completely different. I just think that is so much fun. It's terrifying 'cause you have no control over what it becomes, but that's also so freeing to just let go at some point. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Let me ask the two of you, what is your favorite part about working in the theater? And Jordan, I wanna stick with you first on that, if I may. Yeah, there is a quote from "Skin of our Teeth" that show, it's this little show, maybe you've heard of it. I did it in college and it's towards the end. And George Antribus says, yeah, he has this monologue, but in there, he says, "All I ask is the chance to build new worlds "and God has given us that chance." And that's one of the biggest things I love about theater is just this chance to create something new every day that feels like the act of creation is becoming less and less accessible these days, with AI and just barely having enough time and money to pay rent and sit down. It feels like the tools to create are just being less accessible. So having this place that is dedicated to doing that, it's why I'm not a religious person, but let's say it's why God gave us wheat and grapes instead of bread and wine so that we can take part in the divine act of creation. And specifically being able to do that in an environment that is inherently collaborative. I love reading the script, having everything figured out and ready to go, ready to talk to designers and actors, and then just having them tell me that everything that I had planned was wrong. Or it's like, hey, this is great, but what about this and that instead? I'm like, oh, you're so right. This is why we hired you to be a professional on this subject. So rather than having the director, almost be what I would call a dictator and really just to make it all that one director-specific vision, creating something as a community. - That is a fabulous answer. We love a good collaborative answer, that's fabulous. Vincent, what about you? - Well, I mean, Jordan, I think we should really just get a beard again sometime and just, you know, philosophize. Yeah, totally, totally on the same page. It's that, it's that, as I call it, wrestling the imagination out of my head. Like, I have this idea, but then you think about it maybe philosophically and it's like, I tell my students this too, like nobody else has had this idea. I mean, forget that all, you know, there are no new ideas, but there are no ideas that you have interpreted, that everyone brings their own lived experiences and morals and everything to the same story. So we could both read Frankenstein, all three of us and pull something different out of it. And I love that we get that chance then to create whatever, something that nobody else has ever seen before, then in collaboration with a team. And it's my favorite thing, 'cause I have so many ideas when I walk into a room and then again, the designer will have some other idea. And I'm like, oh yeah. What I thought of was garbage. I love that idea. That's why you're the lighting designer. Thank you. Let's roll with that. So I just love it all and making friends on a cast. You know, it doesn't always happen, but when it does, those have been some of my favorite productions to work on when you all like each other and y'all get along and you're working towards this goal. - Absolutely, listen, those two answers compliment each other. Those are five answers. And it leads to my favorite question to ask guests, which is what is your favorite theater memory? - You know, when I was in college and this speaks to my last answer about working with people, you genuinely enjoy spending time with. And more than just getting along, right? It's, you know, those people in your life. And there's nothing else like doing a play in college or a community play, community theater, where it's a little hard scrabble. It's a little fly by the seat of your pants. Maybe you're on stage and, you know, you have tie a tie on stage. I was in barefoot in the park and I was playing the Paul character. And there's the first time I had to tie a tie on stage. I was terrified. I was just like, this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do as an actor at each night. Am I gonna get it? Am I not? And then sharing that look with my stage partner. And she's like, since I know what you're thinking, you're gonna get it. I'm like, okay, cool, I got it. So it's just those moments when you can be on stage as an actor and share those looks with your scene partners. - That is a wonderful memory. I love, thank you so much. And on behalf of those of us that can't tie a tie very well, thank you for sharing that. Jordan, what is your favorite theater memory? - Ooh, that's obviously not an easy question. 'Cause it feels like I could pick out something from each show that I've worked on. I feel like this one feels most appropriate for this production. But I was working on, it's actually the first show that I worked on when I came back to New York. It was still, what is it, 2020, 2021, one of those years. And I was brought on to work on the Scottish play. And it was just this scrappy production put on by some friends in Prospect Park. And it was technically legal to do it. And it was an outdoor nighttime production done around Halloween. And I showed up to the first rehearsal. We were sitting in Prospect Park in the dark lit by one street lamp. And we'd hit like kind of a lull in the discussion of the table work. And it's like, cool. So does anyone want to hear me talk about the Scottish play as a proto gothic romance story and all of these tropes that it's using from the genre before the genre exists? And all of the supernatural elements that are lost to time in a sense, we consider completely differently. And the cultural context and significance of using things like witches and ghosts in a society that consider religion very differently than how we do now. And just do rambling on about that and dropping those little nuggets every day in rehearsal. And everyone was just so ready for it. And writing everything down. It's like, okay, yeah, cool. I found my people. And that is actually when I first started looking for Frankenstein, because at the time this was a group that I was going to try and do it with, but they've since dissolved, one of them has moved to Scotland. So it made it hard to do that. But persevered. And we're doing it now. - That's awesome. - Yeah, that is a fantastic memory as well. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you both for sharing those fantastic memories. As we wrap things up, I would love to know, do either of you have any of the projects or productions coming down the pipeline we might be able to plug for you? - I don't have anything set in stone. I am reviewing, so Citygate has, it has started accepting new plays, predominantly focusing on local playwrights, but they're reviewing new plays, and I'm part of that process of reviewing new plays, and we hope we're going to work on some pitches to have those plays workshoped. And before I moved back to New York, I was in San Francisco working almost exclusively in new play production, because there's this beautiful ecosystem of that out there. And so I'm really excited to start bringing that to Queens. - In addition, also just to plug Citygate really quick, they just announced their 2025 season, they're doing POTUS and Hamlet next year. So stay tuned for that audition info. - But also my books are relatively free, if anyone's listening and needs a director, but I got free time. - That's fantastic though, it's amazing. Anything for you, Vincent? - Yeah, yeah, just real quick. On October 25th, on that Friday night's performance, I will be in attendance, and Jordan, you and I, I think you're in, we're gonna be part of a talk back with the audience after that performance. So if you're around, I will also be in town on the 25th, and would love to chat and meet with any listeners out there. I have my own podcast, actually, just wanna plug real quick called Camp Kaiju, Monster Movie Podcast. We've been going on four years now, where we review monster movies through a cultural lens. Some of those directors I mentioned earlier, we love talking about their movies. And then as a playwright, I actually have a staged reading of a play I've been working on, October 9th in Minneapolis, where I'm based and where I live. And this is a haunted house werewolf story, very gothic, very Poe inspired 1800s mystery ghost story. So if anyone's out there interested in reading that script, after our reading, I will have a revised draft for you. - That is very cool. So some things to keep our eyes out for, regarding the two of you, and that leads to my final question, which is if our listeners would like more information about Frankenstein or about either of you, maybe they'd like to reach out to you. How can they do so? - So I know for the show, best place to keep your eyes out is a city gate has an Instagram and a Facebook, in addition to their website. So I'd say drop them a follow. And I've had a website half finished for about going on eight years now. One day I'll actually finish it. So I think for me, the best place to stay up to date on what I'm working on would also probably would be Instagram for the moment. Sit tight. One day I'll get that website done. - Yeah, my website is Vincentham.com. And you can follow me on Instagram at V-S-ham. That's it at V-S-ham. - Wonderful. Well, Vincent, Jordan, thank you both so much for taking the time to speak with me today, for sharing this great new version of this classic tale. I'm so excited about it. This is exactly what we need around Spooky Season, of course. So thank you both so much for your time today. - Thank you for having us. - My guests today have been two fantastic artists, the playwright Vincent S. Cannon and the incredible director, Jordan, Charlie Watley. They joined us today to talk about city gate productions presentation of Frankenstein. And this is playing October 18th through the 27th at the Secret Theater. And you can get your tickets and more information by visiting citygateproductions.org. We also have some contact information for our guests, which will be posted on our episode description, as well as on our social media posts. But right now, make sure you head to citygateproductions.org and get your tickets for this fabulous reimagining, this great new version of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Vincent has done a wonderful job penning it. Jordan's doing a fantastic job directing it. You won't want to miss it. Again, Frankenstein is playing October 18th through the 27th. And we want to add for our American listeners that election day is November 5th. Make sure you are registered to vote, have a plan to cast your ballot and do your democratic duty. You can find out how and where you can register and vote by visiting vote.gov, the future demands that we fight for it now. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez, reminding you to turn off your cell phones, unwrap your candies. - And keep talking about the theater in a stage whisper. - Thank you. (upbeat music) - If you like what you hear, please leave a five star review, like and subscribe. - You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at Stage Whisper Pod. - And feel free to reach out to us with your comments and personal stories at stagewhisperpod@gmail.com. - And be sure to check out our website for all things Stage Whisper and theater. You'll be able to find merchandise, tours, tickets and more. Simply visit stagewhisperpod.com. Our theme song is Maniac by Jazzar. Other music on this episode provided by Jazzar and Billy Murray. You can also become a patron of our show by logging on to patreon.com/stagewhisperpod. 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