Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

First Down with Bennie Fowler, Week 5: Jets fire HC Robert Saleh! Live reaction

Broadcast on:: 08 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard and Super Bowl champion former NFL receiver Bennie Fowler react LIVE to the breaking news of the New York Jets firing head coach Robert Saleh on Tuesday, Oct. 8, 2024 @Bleav. Leonard and Fowler discuss Saleh's scapegoating in favor of Aaron Rodgers, debate the best possible candidates to take over the Jets in 2025 and review Saleh's tenure as coach. They also dive into the Giants' impressive win in Seattle, the Cowboys' tough play in their road win over the Pittsburgh Steelers, how Deshaun Watson is killing players' ability to get fully guaranteed contracts in the future and more. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.

If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat. Literally. But don't sweat it. Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations, including warehouse HVAC maintenance. And even better, they offer access to experts and fast delivery, so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-granger, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Ready to pop the question? And take advantage of 30% off? The jewelers at blunile.com have got sparkled down to a science, with beautiful lab-grown diamonds worthy of your most brilliant moments. Their lab-grown diamonds are independently graded and guaranteed identical to natural diamonds, and they're ready to ship to your door. Go to blunile.com to get 30% off. Select lab-grown diamonds. That's blunile.com for 30% off lab-grown diamonds. Blunile.com. Welcome to talking ball with Pat Leonard, our week 5 edition of First Down with Benny Fowler is here. Our recap of the NFL Sunday, Monday, and Thursday games with a Super Bowl champion, former NFL wide receiver insight on all the top storylines, including a special weekend in the NFC East, considering the victories for the commanders, the Cowboys, and, of course, the New York Giants in Seattle will break all that down and more, presented by My Bookie, which is celebrating its 10th anniversary, and is rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including risk-free Thursdays and a special promo code, "PatsPix," that will get you 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more, up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make football season a winning season with My Bookie bet anything, any time, anywhere. Also brought to you by BoomChaga Mushroom SuperDrink, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. You can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally felt a post-workout like Energy Boost with Boom. Chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation, and improve immune and heart health. With its beta-gluten in antioxidants, go to BoomChaga.com today to place your first order with that discount code, TalkInBall25, or you can access it through the QR code on your screen, and you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now, that means a month's supply costs you only $30. Start feeling the difference today at BoomChaga.com, and we are also brought to you here on The Believe Network by a state 98 coffee, an all-natural specialty coffee with no sugar, convenient for on-the-go coffee drinkers. It takes less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 iced coffee easy for me to say and only a minute more to make a hot coffee or latte on this all-natural concentrate. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal, and now on to our interview with Benny Fowler. All right, welcome to our week five edition of First Down with Benny Fowler, Super Bowl Champion, back in the saddle to talk about the top storylines of the NFL beans. What's up? How you doing? Doing good, man. Giants got a great dub on the road. You know, Broncos got a win at home against the Raiders. Just really good football, and, you know, we saw Kansas City get a win last night, so great football all weekend. The NFL is super unpredictable right now. I don't know who's the best team. I mean, I probably have to go with the Ravens right now in terms of who's looking the best, but it's a wide open world right now. You like the Ravens as the best team, even with their defense, hemorrhaging all those points to Cincinnati, huh? Hey, at the end of the day, they scored 41 and the Bengals scored 38. If you could score 41 points and you can continue to answer regardless of defense, I mean, you could still win, so. Yeah. Yeah, but the field was quite open. I like that you're starting us out with which teams are standing out the most to you in kind of a crowded and confusing field because that's where I wanted to kick off, which is with the Dallas Cowboys win against the Steelers. The reason I want to start there is because. Benny, I've been covering the NFL since 2016. The Cowboys typically have been a good team when I've been covering them, obviously with Dak Prescott as a quarterback. I don't know if I've seen a Cowboys team play a tougher game than that. Like they look like a tough team. And the way that the Kansas City Chiefs now are five and oh by as we've talked about. Just figuring it out every week, playing hard-nosed football. If you're willing to run it 30 times or throw it 30 times, whatever it is, I know Dak with the red zone turnovers, you can't have that. But without those two giveaways by Dak, I think Dallas blows out Pittsburgh here. And frankly, I think this was a Dallas team without Parsons, without Lawrence. And I think I was doubting whether or not they were the same contender to worry about that they've been in these previous years. This to me was a statement game from them wondering if you saw it the same way. I don't know if I saw it as a statement win, but I thought it was very impressive just for them to go on the road, Sunday night football, rain delay. Knowing the fact that Pittsburgh was going to try to run the ball on them based off of everything that they have seen in the season so far, you think that Pittsburgh was going to, I thought Pittsburgh was going to run all over them and I had Pittsburgh picked to win, but no, that was a gritty win. And it was a tough win. It was, yeah, it's very opposite of what you see from the Cowboys. Cowboys more finesse. This was more tough. It was gritty win. It was kind of how Pittsburgh would actually win that game. That's kind of how I see it. So it was a, it was a, it was a, I wouldn't say it was a good performance or a great performance, but it was, it was a tough and it was, yeah, something that I'm not used to seeing in Dallas. Yeah, yeah. I think that's kind of where I'm coming from. You know, you got like one of the biggest plays at the end is by the fullback, but it was, it was, it was, it was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. But it was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It was like one of the biggest players in the season. It's something that I saw from afar and then also when I was playing with Odell. It was like sometimes you see us thrive. You go to Washington and we put up 40-something points and Odell doesn't play. But we're not a better offense without him. He's just too dynamic. But you don't have the pressure of like okay, here's this incredible athlete who's better than everybody out there in terms of his athletic ability and the way he catches the ball. But now I have the pressure of like we got to get the ball or he's going to be pissed off. So that's the balance that a lot of these other coaches sometimes will have it figured out. Sean Payton did it really well with Michael Thomas in New Orleans. You saw it working all the Peyton Manning offenses. You saw it work well with Tom Brady and Julian Edelman in Gronkowski where you could still get your main players ball or even Randy Moss. Your main players ball but didn't spread the ball around. It's a very unique balance but that's what the great quarterbacks and coordinators have to do. Great answer and I want to come back to that game. But Benny as we record we have breaking news in the NFL. Adam Schefter ESPN sources jets have fired head coach Robert Sala. Wow. Robert Sala finishes his tenure with the Jets four years record of 20 and 36. So that's a 35.357 winning percentage and they fire him on the heels of a disappointing loss in London to the Minnesota Vikings are undefeated. But what is your immediate reaction when I tell you this news that just breaks as we're sitting here talking in a fell. He's escaped goat for Aaron Rodgers average play right now. He's escaped goat for it and they want to blame him but I mean that's just ridiculous in terms of him being fired. And then you know there's still 12 games left to play. So now you're going to bring in an interim head coach to try to figure this out. But Robert Sala installed that defense that defense is his and he knows that defense in and out and that defense is playing damn good football. So that's a great point. That's my that's my initial reaction I just I mean it's BS in terms of that but hey we'll see where it goes now. The Jets will probably get super excited and have a week of super high energy you know how we how we saw Carolina do it and then they'll go back to being themselves right now. They're just not a good team right now as offensive. They're also not a good organization and I think that's what that's what you're speaking to too which I think is my immediate thought process like I was talking to some of the fellow columnist and beat writers on the Giants trip out to Seattle. And before the Giants caught themselves in Seattle with that statement victory there. It looked like both New York teams had a chance to crumble under the weight of these early starts. And we were kind of debating which organization would falter first in a publicly embarrassing way. And even though the Giants had really started poorly here. It's hard not to say the Jets because of their their history and also because of how Woody Johnson meddles so much that you have a general manager and Joe Douglas who has to go to Woody Johnson for for approval to get all these checks signed if he wants to go sign extra player. Meanwhile you also have Joe Douglas and Woody Johnson going and getting Hassan Redick who never reported to the team. So that is a personnel decision that backfired in an explosive and disastrous manner. Salah's defense is still playing well without Hassan Redick even in the building while they let Bryce Huff go to Philly in free agency where he's a much worse fit than he was as a supplemental pass rusher with the Jets. And I'm fired up here Benny. The other thing is you and I both watched Aaron Rodgers be essentially the reason they lost the game to the Vikings. Like he he threw. I think it was too bad interceptions and then that throw at the end where he misses Garrett Wilson down the right sideline out of bounds. That was a touchdown. Yeah. And the other thing is this Benny and I'll close on this. I want to know if you see this as well. Rodgers after the game essentially indirectly and passively put mistakes like that on other people like for example I think he said Garrett Wilson either slipped on that route or on another route or something. Like he's not even a taking accountability for what this looks like I guess Jeff Ulbrick the defensive coordinator would step in and be the interim head coach that would be my guess. We probably see that come down in a minute here but what do you think about the yes it will be Jeff Ulbrick he will be the interim head coach for the Jets so what do you think about the idea of Rodgers not showing accountability and then the organization kind of enabling or supporting that where does where does that put the rest of the locker room two weeks from now three weeks from now three weeks from now if they continue to play bad watch all the more stuff is going to come out pointing fingers. You know I've been in some shitty situations like this before some of my my teams in New York where you know all right this season it kind of gets away from us in the now all hell is breaking loose people are getting cut they're bringing in young people they don't care about winning they don't care about the culture anymore so it could become very toxic. Very fast. If I'm Devonta Adams I don't know if I want to come here now I mean you lost the head coach bringing an interim head coach which means to me Rodgers is going to be the coach and going to be dictating how everything goes. We've already saw how that's been working out for people so in working out for the Jets organization so you know it's just going to be tough I don't know if this guy has any head coaching experience at all. You know he's a defensive coordinator who's going to be calling the defensive plays. But you know Robert's solid right now is probably you know he's upset that he lost his job but he's going to wake up with a lot less stress tomorrow and probably go get a consulting job or consult with the 49ers or whoever's playing the Jets over the rest of the season. He might be on a golf course right now. 100% he might have gone right to the golf course like finally thank the Lord. And you think about and this is one of the difference between great teams in the NFL and just average organizations is a reason why the Jets have been the Jets over. I don't know how many years but you think about where Robert solid came from a great foundation in the 49ers with their ownership John Lynch being the GM cow being the head coach and Robert being able to operate from a place of strength. That's what he's used to coming from and then you now join an organization where you just talked about Woody Johnson have to sign off on everything Joe Douglas not having that relationship with the owner and then now that relationship also permeates down to the head coach and they're just not that fluidity that continuity in a real culture there and you get average or shitty football so it's a tough situation. When you were in situations like this how how early before or how many weeks let's say before the firings or those decisions come down and they happen how much earlier do the players and does the locker room know it's there. I don't really know until you see something like this so I mean this is super dramatic and I've only had one head coach or I'd often coordinator fired my last year in Denver like early in the season. And then I don't think I ever had a head coach fired. You know, the teams, but you knew that things were going to start getting shaken up you know you see veteran players get cut or people like myself where it's just like okay like I know I'm a good player. I'm not doing anything wrong but now I've been cut twice in the same season and has nothing to do with play it's more about the direction of the organization so from a player perspective. You'll start to see it you won't see it till I would say the end of October, early November where it's like okay, playoffs are out of control. Now every man for himself it's all about stats it's not about wins as a player. Got interesting yeah right because if you start to see as a player that the organization isn't looking out for the picture you thought you guys all were together. It's like well I gotta protect myself right I'm gonna protect my career or get mine or whatever it is right depending on the way don't get injured. You know get your off season plans ready you know mid to late December you know see where you're going on vacation ship the cars back but we're not there yet for for the jets but it's it's not looking good. Yeah it's a good image. I will say this about Salah you know in a critical and negative way is well two things one I felt like you're right the defense is his that's really what he brought here and the defense has always been good. Head coach wise when they have needed direction guidance and solutions in games. He frequently looks like a bystander and not a problem solver. So that's you know I feel like I would throw him in the bucket of many other coaches who are good coordinators and not good head coaches. And the other thing about Salah I would say is anecdotally Benny like every. Well he was here for four seasons or three full seasons in at least two of the seasons he was the head coach of the jets by the time they got to late November early December what you're talking about. I would hear random comments from people connected to the jets or in the league who had talked to someone with the jets and they would say something along the lines of. Man have you talked to anyone at the Jets I hear it's a mess over there. Like yeah the way that essentially saying. Not a mess in the sense of everyone's you know that it's coming out dramatically like this but in the sense that there's no accountability so the players are just doing whatever they want. There's no checks and balances right everybody knows that it's every man for himself and that. There's no structure at the end of those seasons from Salah from the staff from the organization so in that vein this doesn't surprise me and I think it was probably coming. That doesn't start with Salah that starts with the ownership and then that starts with the GM and the front office staff and the scouting and the player personnel and also Robert Salah. And then you know Nathaniel Hackett being the OC I mean he got fired from Denver here in the middle of the season for for that. But when you have a quarterback like an Aaron Rodgers who's an incredible talent one of the best throws and one of the best players I've ever played against and ever seen when he comes in there and dictates everything. It's becomes a player ran building and he is you know he's an up and down person in terms of his personality and how he approaches people. And that pushed now early on in the season I don't know if it was game one or game to the game at home that pushed to Robert Salah. Now it's just that that shows your relationship was never good and he undermined you. He didn't respect you in terms of a leader and here we are. That's a great point yeah that that photo of him pushing him away as Salah went in for a hug. And looking at him like what do you think you're doing that that is the that is the lasting image from this I know we're not at this moment and we're not going to be here for a little bit. Next year Jet Searching for a Head Coach is Bill Belichick who once left the Jets at the altar wrote on a on a nap. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify is there to help you grow. Shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system. Shopify's got you covered. Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the Internet's best converting checkout. 36% better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms and sell more with less effort thanks to Shopify Magic, your AI-powered all-star. What I love about Shopify is how no matter how big you want to grow Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. and Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's and Brooklinen and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries. Plus Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Because businesses that grow, grow with Shopify, sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/Westwood1. All lowercase, go to Shopify.com/Westwood1 now to grow your business. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify.com/Westwood1. Expressing your love can look many different ways. And with the right jewelry gift from Blue Nile, it can truly sparkle. Blue Nile's collection of classic diamond jewelry makes for the kind of gift that speaks volumes without saying a single word. Or switch things up with a sapphire piece sure to spark conversation. Either way, Blue Nile's diamond guarantee ensures you get the highest quality at the best price. Express yourself with Blue Nile and get up to 30% off at Blue Nile.com. That's Blue Nile.com. Can I think it was designing as the head coach of NYJ? And who hates the Jets, based on all of his time with the New England Patriots beating on them and all that. Do you think that he would throw his hat in the ring on a job like this? Assuming he's coming back next year, assuming he's doing the interview circuit and he's interested in some jobs, would there be any reason for him to be interested in this team? Considering the talent that's on the defensive side, and a lot of the talent in the organization. I mean, Rogers is not this, but a lot of the talent in the organization is pretty young, right? Does Bill want to deal with the 40-year-old quarterback? That's the question. That's the real question, and he got rid of Tom Brady when he was 40. He didn't want to have an older quarterback, didn't want to have to deal with it. And then Bill and Aaron, will they really get along? I think they have a tremendous amount of respect for one another, but would they actually get along in terms of a working relationship? Because some of the things that Aaron wants to do or would want to do, Bill doesn't operate like that. And he got two alphas, and then you got one who's going to be in control of most of the roster, if not all of the roster, coming in there. So, I don't think Bill even comes back to coaching. That's just me, you know. He's on these different commercials. He's less stressed. He's got his young girl. Like, just right off into the sunset, you're already the best coach of all time. He's coming back only for the regular season wins record. Is there a media job he has turned down yet, Benny? No, he is trying to all his time up. But this is easy for him. It's no different than what Peyton is doing now. They're asking, they're paying millions of dollars to talk about something you already know about. How about him taking, did you see the dig he took at the Colts and Peyton with pumping crowd music and crowd music? He came back with deflate gate or... I know. I always like, that's so the difference between Eli and Peyton, too, is like, if someone were to throw a dig at Eli in that respect, he would have a comeback. You know, Peyton in that respect, he gets kind of squirmy, like, "Whoa, whoa, wait, we're off, we're off, you know, we're off script." Yeah, we're off script. We're not part of the plan here. To your point, the Jets, so Solid gets fired. The Jets are the second best defense in the league by yards allowed. 255.8 yards per game. The only team allowing fewer yards per game is the Tennessee Titans at 243.8. The Denver Broncos at 271.2. We can pivot there to the 100. Yeah. Yeah, we could pivot there in Denver, Benny. What did you see from Denver this weekend with that impressive 34-18 win over the Raiders? Broncos got it done at home. Alumni weekend, it was cool to be a part of that and be back and see some form of friends and former teammates. You know, the game started off pretty rough and, you know, it was like, "Oh, no, here we go again in terms of, you know, the Raiders started off with an explosive play. They got into the end zone." But, you know, I think Sean and Bo are starting to find their rhythm. I think Bo made some really good throws, really good plays, extending plays. There was a drop touchdown by one of the receivers, Franklin, which would have had Bo at, you know, I think almost had 300 yards and three touchdowns and one running touchdowns. So, I think he is starting to really find his rhythm. I think they're finding some plays and you saw Bo and Sean get into it on the sideline, which I like, you know, Sean's, you know, letting Bo have it and Bo's letting him have it right back. But you have that type of dynamic relationship with the quarterback and coach, and Sean's a fiery guy in Bo is too. And you love to see, you love to see that. But great overall win in advance. Joseph, what he's doing on the defensive end is right up there with Flores in terms of the different looks, the exotic looks, the exotic pressures, passer tan, best corner of the league, 100 yard, interception, return for a touchdown. So, I mean, Broncos are playing some really good, really, I would say complimentary football. I wouldn't say really good football, but complimentary football. Very interesting. Benny jumping around here. But when we were talking about Giants, obviously the solid news dropped there. I wanted to go back to something I noticed watching the game and then the stats backed it up. So their running game really took off with the rookie Tyrone Tracy from Purdue against the Seahawks in this game. But something that stood out to me is that the Giants ran a season high amount of 11 personnel. So for viewers or listeners who aren't familiar with that, that means three wide receivers, one tight end and one running back. So Benny, they ran at 77.5% of their offensive snaps by far the highest of the season. And what I noticed is they ran the ball mostly and best out of 11 personnel, not out of 12 with two tight ends or with Jumbo formations. And if I go back and look at their first five games here, they're two and three, they have been a better running offense in 11 every single game. Wondering what that I know, I know it's deeper than this that you'd have to really like grind the film, look at how every guy's performing to really understand the nuances for any team doing this. But why would a team theoretically be able to run the ball better out of 11 with three receivers rather than with an extra tight end on the field of block? When you run the ball out of 11, you take a bigger guy off the field, whether it's on the defensive line or a linebacker, you have to put in a nickel, you have to put in a smaller guy. So if you got great receivers who can block down field and are able to understand the coverage, you know, you can get some great perimeter blocking, but it could be a little bit easier on the offensive line in terms of getting to the second level and getting more big guys on other big guys or smaller linebackers. So I think that's something that, you know, after the first quarter of the season, the Giants are looking back at, okay, hey, what do we do really well and if we ran the ball out of 11 really well like let's continue to do that. So, and maybe it comes back to the film and, you know, give Dave all and his staff credit that Seahawks just played Detroit on Monday night Detroit does a lot about 11 personnel with Kaleef Raymond, James and Williams, and I'm in Ross a Brown or Tim Patrick or whoever it may be, they do a lot out of 11. But they're blocking scheme and you got to be willing to block as a receiver on the perimeter so maybe just watching the film and what has it attacks Seattle or the run game from Detroit. And how they ran the ball against Seattle really stuck out. Interesting. Right, I want to tell us our listeners and viewers about our sponsors quickly and then I want to go back to this big Jets news and talk about potential candidates to be the next Jets head coach next season because especially like you said there. I think that's a really interesting question it changes the way you evaluate that field. So just want to tell you guys we are rep, we are sponsored here by my bookie my bookie celebrating its 10th year anniversary, and they are rolling out the red carpet They have risk free Thursdays I know Mike Evans hit pretty quickly last week absolute stud. If you already have a my bookie account, you can sign up for the new loyalty rewards program my bookie plus you can unlock exclusive promotions and giveaways get cash back in your account. This is a special promo code, Pat's picks P A T S P I C K S. Use that at the link in all of my social media bios, and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make football season a winning season with my bookie bet anything anytime anywhere. Also brought to you by boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract loaded with anti inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can easily put this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I put mine in my coffee every morning, and immediately feel the difference I personally have felt a post workout like energy boost with boom chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluten Go to boom chaga.com today place your first order with the discount code talking ball 25 and you will get a 25% discount on your first subscribe and save order right now that means a month supply cost you only $30 start feeling the difference today at boom chaga.com And by estate 98 coffee and all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on the go coffee drinkers takes less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 iced coffee, go to a state 98.com backslash talking ball to get a special buy one get one for you deal Benny I'm going to throw some names at you. Please tell me if you think any of these would make sense for the Jets head coaching position in 2025 we have Ben Johnson the lion's offensive coordinator. And we have Brian Flores the Minnesota Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Rabel is out there a guy who I would expect would be trying to get back in the mix Texans offensive coordinator Bobby Slowick. You also have Clint Kubiak down there in New Orleans and up and comer and you know there's obviously the field as well so someone else could jump to the forefront of your mind or mine as we're discussing this, but where do you see any of those that I mentioned there standing out as someone who would be willing and able and a strong candidate to kind of add into this mix with Rogers and the Jets. All of them are willing, I think, actually let me take that back if I think about the people that you just said or even you know you have to, for these coaches right here or potential candidates. Do they really want to go coach and with Aaron Rodgers that's, that's the real question because that's unique in terms of he's only got a couple years left. It's his way or the highway type of deal. Do you want to go coach this guy. It's, you know, it's. It's not the most ideal situation in terms of him being young and then the attitude or him undermining like you know a Ben Johnson who has a Jared golf. And you know they're on the same page Bobby Slowick like would you want to go. Yeah, you get your head coaching opportunity, but you're leaving CJ shroud who is young and an upcoming player incredible culture with Demika Ryan Ryan Flores you've done the coach the head coaching thing before do you want to just continue to thrive as a coordinator. So these questions, these are the questions that are do they want to leave the situation the great situation that they're in. Number one to come to the toughest media market. Number two, will there be alignment with the owner GM and then me stepping in as a head coach. And then also, what will my relationship with Aaron Rodgers be you can't come in here and then you know wipe the slate clean and really build the foundation because Aaron's going to want to say in everything and you're going to be like yo, leave me alone. I have my jobs are already tough enough so it really just depends I'm talking there I'm talking all these coaches out of it to be honest. Yeah, you know it's funny prior to Aaron Rodgers becoming a jet. I heard from at least two different candidates who said that during their interview processes when they were candidates this was within. So let's say the window of 20 what it would have been when solid got the job. So during that cycle I heard from at least two candidates who said that they were advised not to interview with the jets at all. And these are these are guys who were not head coaches prior. So to your point, most of these guys are willing to take a head coaching job because they all want to be an NFL head coach and if it's available if you say no, you might not never get offered it again right. It really is an amazing thing for someone's agent let's say to say you probably shouldn't take this interview if the Jets want to interview for your head coaching position but that's the, that's the type of organization you're looking at. Not to mention with Rogers in the mix. Like you make a great point. Do I want to go somewhere where the expectation is not only win or else, but do what Aaron wants or else. And then once I'm out of there, where does my career stand we know where to how do people view me they probably view me with the stink of the Jets on me right I mean how could they not. 100%. I view I view the Jets job and the Carolina job and almost the same light like you just don't want to play for those ownership groups or those organizations because it's not the players or the people in the locker room or even the coaching staff it's who you're working for and the resources that you'll have around you. Yeah I think I think where as we talk it out I think you end up with only being able to hire from one of two ends of the opposite spectrums so in other words in the middle let's say there's the Ben Johnson's who are the strong head coaching candidate who you want to hire and build with and give you patience and you trust he has a high level of acumen in a certain area that's going to elevate your franchise, but take that group out because of the Rogers dynamic and the Jets dynamic so that leaves you with in my opinion. The retread very experienced head coach who has some cache and clout and who can stand up to an Aaron Rogers. You know whatever the opposite end which is like the and not to dump on Dave can Alice at all but you know like the way that the Carolina Panthers is not a job that everyone is just knocking banging on the door to get because they know they could get fired in a year and it's a bad organization. So you end up hiring from a pool of lesser known and less experienced and then that guy is just essentially, you know Aaron Rogers is running it and he's just along for the ride. That almost speaks to Benny like, you know, they could run back Jeff Ulbrick their interim head coach this year if it doesn't go in the tank this year, just to have a familiar face who's going to hand Aaron the keys, right? I'd go with I would go with the former I'd go with an experienced head coach who can tell Rogers hey man, shut up. I'd go with a bill ballot check or like somebody bring back like an old face like a Rex Ryan. And you're not going to tell him what to do and he's going to let you know straight up like you're playing shitty football and we're not going to do this or we're not going to go for that. So you need somebody to come in there and call the shots like we don't need somebody to come in there and be buddies with Rogers and like have them have a great relationship and a shitty culture. Yeah, it's Brian I like that now that's a headline maker Benny. Yeah, you get Rex Ryan interviewing with the Jets again. Come on now. No interview. He's just coming right in there. That would be amazing. That would be very New York and very New York Jets. So I'm looking forward to you calling the shot there. Benny what else stood out to you this week around the NFL I mean the Chiefs go to five and oh, that's your Super Bowl pick the commanders go to four and one and absolutely spank the Cleveland Browns into submission. And then the Houston Texans eat out one against the bills anything else stand out to you League wide CJ shroud continues to impress me just in terms of pocket presence and then the way they did their clock management into the game end of half management So I decided to do me go Ryan's in the Houston Texans. They really stick out. I think on the other side of that the bills they need some help they need some more veteran playmakers john is still incredible but you know he has to find that rhythm you know he misses Stefan digs in terms of that go to guy. They're starting to find their rhythm in terms of their play calling Todd Monk and is finding his rhythm putting 41 points up against the Cincinnati Bengals and getting that win and overtime Lamar Jackson looks like the MVP right now in terms of his dynamic play the Bengals the price is only going up in terms of what you're going to have to pay Jamar chase is literally worth every dollar and some I mean just all the stats that he's putting up and this is with no training camp by the way. They wouldn't incredible player Joe barrel looks really good. Their defense just isn't just isn't as good and when you think about you know roster dynamics and things like that when you lose the safeties that they had and the different players that they had on defense. It's hard to replace those guys when you think about a Jesse Bates I forgot who the other safety was but those guys when they go other places. You can feel those spots in but you can't and it's going to take some time so I think that's what the Bengals are kind of going through right now we'll see if we'll see if they make the playoffs but that's kind of what's really sticking out like do the the playoffs looks like the Rams are going to be what I thought they were I mean Matthew Stafford are still a elite throw up the football but they're not playing complimentary football he I think he started the ball over in every game. This this season too so I forgot who the other teams were that you just said. Oh Jaden Daniels gee what a player. What a player. I mean just incredible in terms of pocket presence the floor was that he's making the confidence that he has a continuity that they have. And I do have to give a shout out to Kayla Williams playing some really good football really good throws now it's against Carolina but I don't care because he's a rookie. And he played really well and he made some really good throws he was on time he was on point and I didn't see any hero ball. I'm going to look at my read one two or three and then I'm going to throw the ball you don't need to do the spinning you don't need to roll out every play. You're standing in the pocket and deliver deliver the ball. Yeah, conversely are you worried about the Niners. I know it's early the two and three, but they call one up here to the Cardinals. They're really banged up. And it just it's coming off of that long Super Bowl chase over all these years coming up short last year when it looked like it was their time to do it and achieve still take them down. I think this is a team that's slumping its shoulders a little bit and maybe worn down from the grind and not going to be in the same spot at the end of the season or is it too early to kind of write them off from the top echelon. Too early to write them off because they just need to get into the dance but I think right now, and I saw this with Draymond and in Golden State is that like you know when you have an incredible team like that they kind of just want to get to the playoffs so they can go to the one game elimination because they know they're talented they just want another another shot at the crown and you know the regular season is important for them because they have to get the seating and everything like that. But the 49ers are like look we're battle tested we want to play meaningful football and every game in the NFL is meaningful but they want to just get to the playoffs and now they want another shot at the Super Bowl in that run so they'll have to fight against complacency and fight against the regular season because they got 12 games left and they have to they have to play well and they have to get a rhythm I think injuries early on could be more beneficial to them and having them later on. You know maybe having players healthier and McCaffrey not playing half the season will have him healthy for their for their push posts Thanksgiving. All right so while we're on the topic of head coaches being fired as well with this solid news. If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down it can turn up the heat literally but don't sweat it Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations including warehouse HVAC maintenance and even better they offer access to experts and fast delivery so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-GRANGER click Granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. This is a mini meditation guided by Bombus. Repeat after me. I'm comfy comfy. I'm cozy cozy. I have zero blisters on my toes listers and that's because I wear Bombus. The softest sucks underwear and t-shirts that give back one purchased equals one donated. Now go to bombus.com/listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com/listen and use code listen at checkout. So right now the one in four teams in the league are Cleveland, New England, Jacksonville, Cincinnati, LA and Carolina. So who would the next head coach to possibly be fired be? Could it be Doug Peterson in Jacksonville? Seems like Kevin Stefanski is kind of just doing what ownership wants in Cleveland and that he has their blessing so I wouldn't put him there. Gerard Mayo's operation in New England looks like an absolute disaster but he's in his first season but anybody stand out to you there? Doug Peterson in terms of they just paid Trevor Lawrence. You took him to the playoffs last year. You got a pretty decent roster and you're not looking good. You got your first win against the Colts. Doug Peterson I would say is on the hot seat. But what I wanted to say that I forgot to say is that it is going to be tough for NFL players to get guaranteed contracts, fully guaranteed contracts for a long time, all because of the way Deshaun Watson is playing on his guaranteed deal. Like this is, I mean it's ruining it for players in terms of a fully guaranteed deal. You're on the hook. Now they're on the hook for 25 and 26 and they know he's not the guy. It's the worst case scenario for players to provide an argument for why they should get that full guarantee right? Yeah, it's awful. And do you view that too as a situation where the Browns just they can't bench him despite of how bad he's playing because of that guarantee or don't you risk losing the locker room if he's playing this poorly, this consistently. I don't know what James would do if he played a full four quarters he probably makes some plays and turn the ball over a couple times like he usually does but, but he's not going to make a play though. He's not going to be better than this right. So he's going to be competitive famous James, but yeah I mean, you're already on the hook for the money so regardless you have to pay him you don't he doesn't need to be out there. You're going to pay him anyway so put James in there and see if you can get a spark. You just went to the playoffs with Joe flakell last year, you played eight quarterbacks or how many quarterbacks they played last year and still got to the playoffs so you have a good roster. But the quarterback position isn't what you want to be so put James in there and see if you can what you can let let ride out there. I know I know NFL owners were angry at the Haslam's for that contract like I remember talking to people in the league about how the owners were trying to overcorrect from that. You know they knew that setting that precedent what it could mean right as far as what players who then could outperform to Sean Watson or play at a high level especially the quarterback position could start asking for and getting in their contract. So, on the NFL owner and I believe in players getting fully guaranteed contracts if they deserve it but the shot Watson was coming off of not playing for two years. He didn't play for two years when he got the money. Man oh man, that's what I don't believe in. What is what's the worst trade the Russell Wilson Broncos trade or the Browns Watson trade. I mean we have to pay Russell Wilson the Broncos have to pay Russell Wilson for another year. But we're three and two right now. So right recovering. Yeah. We're recovering and you know they got bone nicks. I believe it doesn't know where they're going. And they have to pay him for two more years. All fully guaranteed. And I'm definitely in a better situation. When you do situations. Yeah, right. When you when you go back for alumni weekend like that, do you do you miss it? Like, you know, if you if you smell the grass, you're like when you're out there, you walk on the grass like this. Does the player and you kick right back in. The retired player in me kicks back in, you know, it's it's it's, you know, you you just remember how blessed you are to play such an incredible game and that. The fan experience is so much different, like, you know, game day is a real event for fans and you don't see that as a player because you go in, you're doing your job and. You know, it's just football for you, but like the traffic, the tailgating, you know, the finding your seats. I mean, it's a real experience and it's super blessed. It's a blessing to have played as long as I played where I the organizations I played for. So, yeah, I'm not I'm this football for sure. That's awesome. We're grateful that you're on this side of it now helping us and helping our viewers and listeners dissect the NFL. This has been week five edition of first down with Benny Fowler with breaking news. Mid show kind of turned a little bit into a Jets episode, but that's okay, Benny, because this has been a this has been a lot of fun this week. Thanks again for being here as always. Appreciate your back. That was first down with Benny Fowler here on the talking ball with Pat Leonard podcast on the believe network and on the PL on NFL YouTube channel. Wow, that was cool breaking news. Obviously not great for Jets fans or for the Jets organization or for Robert Salah, but live reactions mid recording. Always a fun time to be able to get initial and immediate reaction from somebody with such great insight as Benny who's been in those locker rooms. So that was an interesting and electric podcast there. We are sponsored here. Remember by my bookie 10th year anniversary for my bookie. They're rolling out the red carpet for better is including risk free Thursdays. My bookie plus is their rewards program sign up. Now the more you play the more you earn use the promo code Pat's picks special to our show here on talk about with Pat Leonard. The promo code is Pat's picks go to the link in any of my social media bios. Click on the link go to the cashier use the promo code pads picks and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make this football season a winning season with my bookie bet anything anytime anywhere. Also brought to you by boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract loaded with anti inflammatory and boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post workout like energy boost with boom chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluten and antioxidants. Go to boom chaga.com today to place your first order and if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen. You'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now that means a month's supply cost you only $30 start feeling the difference today at boom chaga.com and buy a state 98 coffee and all natural specialty coffee with no sugar. Convenient for on the go coffee drinkers it takes me less than 10 seconds to make an estate 98 ice coffee and only a minute more to make a hot coffee or latte from this all natural concentrate. Go to a state 98.com backslash talking ball for a special buy one get one free deal. If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down it can turn up the heat literally. But don't sweat it. Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations including warehouse HVAC maintenance and even better they offer access to experts and fast delivery. So you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1800-granger click granger.com or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. Bombas makes the most comfortable socks underwear and t-shirts. Warning, Bombas are so absurdly comfortable you may throw out all your other clothes. Sorry, do we legally have to say that? No, this is just how I talk and I really love my Bombas. They do feel that good and they do good too. One item purchased equals one item donated. To feel good and do good go to bombas.com/listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's BOMBAS.com/listen and use code listen at checkout. Bingo. Alright Phil, we're recording now so it's live go ahead pick on me the way that you want to. Did I say that? I would say that to my son and I mean come on man. Just go. This isn't CBS. Alright, be quiet for a few seconds. Why would people want to listen to the Sims complete podcast? Well, a couple of things. One, if you like to see sons pick on their father, this might be the place. If you want to see a place where the father just kicks his out of his son, this would be the place. What do you like about it Matt? Ditto. Father, son dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together and you know, hey, it's an extension of what we did right growing up. I was able to watch my father play football then obviously watch him as a broadcaster. And then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career. And you know, hey, sometimes we're full of it and sometimes we actually know a thing or a thing or two, well, we do do a lot of research. Thank you for listening. [BLANK_AUDIO]