Unsung Horrors
Way Bad Stone (1991)
After years of talking about it, a new campaign (episode) has been launched to discuss the bloodiest sword & sorcery SOV movie, Way Bad Stone! This is everything we love about DIY filmmaking. Massive thanks to Bleeding Skull for producing this Blu-ray release, and to Sam Panico from B&S About Movies for his interview with director Archie Waugh.
Buy the Blu-ray: https://vinegarsyndrome.com/collections/bleeding-skull/products/way-bad-stone
B&S About Movies Interview: https://bandsaboutmovies.com/2023/02/28/exclusive-interview-with-archie-waugh-director-of-way-bad-stone/
Way Bad Stone: The Facebook Page! https://www.facebook.com/p/Way-Bad-Stone-the-Movie-100063588691772/
Horror Gives back 2024: http://support.bestfriends.org/goto/horrorgivesback2024
Join our discord! https://discord.gg/F8WsTzE9qt
Follow this podcast on Instagram and Facebook @unsunghorrors.
Follow Lance on Instagram and Letterboxd @lschibi
Lance’s shop: https://lanceschibi.bigcartel.com/
Follow Erica on Letterboxd or Instagram @hexmassacre
Logo by Cody Schibi
Part of Someone’s Favorite Productions Podcast Network: https://linktr.ee/someonesfavoriteproductions
- Broadcast on:
- 09 Oct 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
"Prepare yourself for the terror, the prison of madness where few enter and none return." Welcome to "Unsung Horrors," with Lance and Erica. Welcome to another episode of "Unsung Horrors," the podcast where we discuss underseeing horror films, specifically those which have fewer than 1,000 views on Letterbox. I'm Erica. I'm Lance. Happy October, Lance. Oh, happy October to you. It's the best month of the year. It is. It is. I mean, we do horror year-round, but, you know, this month is special because we have our horror gives back charity challenge. Yes, and it's my birthday month. That's you. Yes. And it's Halloween. Like you said, we watch horror movies all year round, but not everybody does, but this is the month where everybody's participating in what we love. Yes. And so for those of you, I know we repeat it every episode, but horror gives back charity challenge. Donate a dollar or more per horror movie that you watch to charity. We have our fundraiser set up for Best Friend's Animal Society, which supports a No Kill 2025 initiative for shelter animals, or you can donate to a charity of your choice. So I know we've got some people internationally who are doing that, and that's great. Like we just want to encourage the charitable action of it. And I have really big news about this, though. This year, we have someone who is going to be matching donations for us. What? I'm not going to say how much up to, but it's a big amount. Wow. So folks, I know times are tough, but as much as you can, even if it's just like, I watched 10 movies this month, can you pitch in 10 bucks because someone's going to match that. It'll be 20 bucks, yeah. Yeah. Wow. So we have a match this year, guys. This is amazing news. Yeah. And I got one. So we have one match here, and I'm like, I'm going to be fucking hitting up people left and right. Justin Thoreau. Where are you at? I know you love animals. I'm going to be fucking tagging that guy in everything. Fuck yeah. He can afford it. He can. He can stop buying some of those tight fitted skinny jeans for a while. No, no, no, don't. Don't let him stop buying that. Okay. Well, no, I want him to buy sweatpants. Keep buying those sweatpants. Yeah. I think you know what I'm talking about, everybody. I'm thrilled. Like that's amazing news. This is, I mean, October just got better. Yes. So really excited, even more so than before. So really looking forward, I already got a couple of my picks under the belt. Not a great start yet, but I got some good stuff coming. So I'm confident it'll turn around. Plus our episode for this is one of our, well, it's one of my. My two. Okay. It is my bleeding skull pick for horror gives back this month. It is a movie I have been talking about for fucking years. It got a Blu-ray release from, from bleeding skull this year. And I could not be more happy to be talking about way bad stone from 1991. Yes. Hell yes. Tell me where the stone is, you little slut. As of this recording, it has 282 views on letterbox. And as I mentioned, it does have a blue ray release from bleeding skull. It's still currently available on vinegar syndrome site, you know, support and purchase if you can. Again, I know times are tough, but there is also a copyright warning at the end of this film that says violators may get chopped with a broad sword. So if you watch this some other way, you're doing so at your own risk. Yeah. And believe me, I think, so I did watch the release. Thank you so much for picking it up for me, by the way. Everything on it, all the extras, everything, the commentaries, this release fucking rules. And I think if you do violate that copyright law, I feel like it's legit. I think some of the people will come back and get you. I kind of do. Yeah. I mean, they still have all the weapons. They do. They have all the costumes. It's very real people. They know how to handle a sword. Those are real swords in their folks, or at least like cosplay swords, like they're heavy swords. They're not like plastic. And we'll probably talk about it, but some of them are trained swordsmen. They are fencers. Yes. So anyway, watch out, but I'd love that. So way bad stone, I'm going to give a summary lifted directly from vinegar syndrome site and their description of the film. My only discrepancy with it is the budget. I'm not sure if it's 2,000 or 3,000, but I mean, honestly, the budget's so low. Like why am I even splitting hairs, who cares? But in Sam, so Sam from BNS About Movies, our guest from the last episode, he has a very extensive interview with the director Archie Waugh on his website. I link that in last episode. I'll link it again in this one. His interview with him said the budget was 3,000. That's the only reason I mentioned that discrepancy. And like a third of that went to catering. More than that. Yeah. Most of it. Yeah. There's a lot of people in this movie. Yeah. Okay. So the description from vinegar syndrome shot for $2,000 on video in the enchanted force of Florida, way bad stone is the unofficial Dungeons and Dragons adaptation that you've been waiting for. The story follows Aladar, a wizard seeking revenge against a gang of barbarians and one demon who stole a magic stone directed by Archie Waugh and co-produced written by Jan and Janney Skipper. This be whiching passion project features Rokus Renfair dialogue, splattery violence and a powerful dungeon synth soundtrack. It is a perfect compliment to your next regularly scheduled LARP campaign. So as mentioned in the description, this was directed by Archie Waugh. He also co-wrote the film as well as shot the film. He also starred as spider in the film who was the sort of Native American looking character in the trees shooting darts. Little crossbow. Yeah. A lot of what I'm going to talk about in this episode is going to be referenced from Sam's interview from BNS about movies. If I forget to specifically mention that, I apologize in advance for that. This specifically was from that. So when Sam spoke with Archie Waugh, he had talked about how the first movies that he were making were eight millimeter home videos as a teenager and those were like 10 minute versions of Frankenstein and Dracula. He said he worked for about 15 years for Manatee County in Florida, which is where the movie was filmed. He ran their government access TV channel and he had a degree in theater and communications and was also a self-taught graphic artist. He also mentioned in that interview, he actually hand cut all the credits and backlit them. And I'm like, that's amazing. Yeah. So he said a lot of the stuff that he did for the access channel was documentary stuff and live broadcasts of county commission meetings, school board meetings, stuff like that. So obviously not the most entertaining content, but you know, you cut your chops where you can. And at the same time, he said he had friends who were, you know, these ren fair performers and he would go see them perform and do sword play. And but he was always thinking like, oh, this would be so much more fun if there was blood and that's sort of where way bad stone came from. Yeah, you can't do the bloody stuff in front of kids at a ren fair, apparently, whatever. So that's kind of how this whole idea came from. And they, he and a friend made this proof of concept sword fight video that was less than 10 minutes long. They showed it to a bunch of the people at like the ren fair and everyone decided to go for it. And they ended up having like 60 people in the film. So you see them kind of like in the camp and in like the bar and stuff like that, even Archie was mom and sister are in the film as bar maids. So it's, it's a very much a family affair. And like, if you're starring in it, you're probably also doing something behind the scenes, which I'll talk about a little bit with casting crew. Yeah. And that's again, we just keep in mind everybody that this was made for under $3,000. And the cast is enormous. And we always champion DIY films like this, especially when a cast is this large and the attention to detail is so well done. It's friends just getting together and making it's a passion project. Like they're just very passionate, they're seeing it through. And that's, that's why Waybad Stone is, I don't know, it's, it's one of my new favorites. Oh, yay. But it is a very interesting approach. A lot of the stuff I, a lot of my notes are based on the commentary with Archie Waugh and Jenny, Kafka or Skipper. Yeah. How they Archie and Jan, they picked the cast from the medieval fair and also people from the local theater. And then they wrote the film around the people that they had. Yeah. The, you know, if they had an actor or, you know, a performer that didn't feel comfortable having any, having dialogue, they wouldn't give them dialogue. They just put them in the background or do fight scenes. And yeah, it's a very interesting approach to be like, okay, we have this group of people. Now let's write the characters. Yeah. And I love that. Yeah. Me too. Even, I can't remember which of the commentaries it was, but one of them, he was talking about the title of the film and how it was some guy suggesting, like said, the name Waybad Stone and they joked about it being a very sort of like California slang and I, yeah, and I joked about that last episode and it's actually true. Dude, the stone is so, it's way bad. I love it. And then yeah, and then Archie said he created the, the graphic design on his own and he kept, you know, it was basically a working title. It sounded like Waybad Stone, these all it just, I looked at the title, the font that I created looked awesome. Yeah. It stuck. Yeah. We're going to talk a lot about the special features on here. There's two commentaries on the release. One of them is with Joe and Annie from Bleeding School with the director Archie. And then the other is with Joe and Annie again, with Jenny Skipper, who plays one of the main characters in the film as well as being behind the scenes co-writer, producer. So what else is included on there? There's one of Archie was, I guess is only other film that he technically directed, a short film called V Squad, which is about 15 minutes. Do you watch this? I did. Yeah. Yeah. It stands for vampire squad. Yeah. There's a V virus going on. It's very kind of like John Carpenter's Vampires are hunters. A little bit of like underworld, I think some people were mentioning it because there was like a werewolf in there at some point and I was, when the werewolf showed up, I was like, oh, yeah. Yeah. And then when it ends, it's to be continued. So the vampire and the werewolf are going to get, obviously I'm spoiling the fifth 15 minutes short, but this werewolf pops up because they kind of hint. It's about like these group of kind of mercenaries that are hired by the government and police who want nothing to do with the V virus. They kind of want to stay away and they hire these tough guy people and yeah, they hint if there's other viruses like mutations going on and then you get a werewolf and I immediately thought of hour of the wolf for a minute because it was kind of cute, but it looked pretty badass because it had glowing eyes. Yeah. And that big shot of them kind of do just jumping in the air kind of and getting ready to battle freeze frame to be continued. Yeah. I'm like Archie. It's been 30 years. Come on, bro. We need the sequel. Just make a five minute battle. Make it on the throw it on YouTube. We'll all watch it. I promise. It's fun though. It's what I do like is in front of Waybad Stone, but it's called Glamour Studios. Yeah. And this is a Glamour Studios. So that must be Archie Wall's thing. Yeah. So speaking of a family affair. The score was done by L.R. Fisk, Kat Kofka, who was Janney's sister and Kat's husband, Don Oliver, composed by the Waybad Stone Symphony Orchestra. Music recorded at the house of the druids. Yes. The end credits. It has a title song Lance. Yes. What ballad of Waybad Stone by Kat Kofka. Kat Kofka, Jan's sister. Yeah. The originals. I mean, obviously the about that song is amazing. It's fucking phenomenal. It's a beer worm. But the original score is nonstop. It's nonstop. I mean, like I love the, I'll get into it, but I love the establishing shots in this film. Like if it's in the tavern or just like their little campground, they literally spend like a minute to two minutes of just establishing tons of people doing their own shit. But, you know, poorly acting arguably in some scenes. That's fine. But the music that's going on is just amazing. It's all over the place. Joe, I had actually never heard this, but you mentioned it too, I think, in the summary. But Dungeonson, I never knew of this genre before. Oh. Never really listened to it. Okay. I mean, obviously I did listen to it because to me it sounded like some music in this actually sounded like something lifted straight from John Carpenter's "Lost Things" records. Like it's that kind of catchy and good and melodic. And a lot of it sounded like video game music, which I've also learned that Dungeonson's purest hate when video games are called Dungeonson, because that's not Dungeonson. Oh, well, sorry, video game people. Yeah. Apparently it's with some movement in the 90s and yeah, it's a genre of electronic music that merges elements of black metal and dark ambient, which you totally get from this. So are you a new fan of the Dungeonson? Yeah, I mean, I feel like you could probably label a lot of the current composers as Dungeons. You know, Steve Moore could be kind of Dungeonsonty or you could even take a step back and look at like John Carpenter being kind of Dungeonsonty. I don't know. It's a new genre for me. So I have to like, it's just kind of do me synth. Yeah. That's what it seems like to me. Some scenes in this where there's like somebody's just shredding on like a shitty cradamp from a pawn shop, a guitar solo, and it's just and it I don't think that I don't think that goes into Dungeonson's synth at all. But I don't know if they're, you know, if they're combining the black metal. I don't know. But one thing that I did love about this movie is I had it on subtitles. Same. Yeah. And every time a new description of the music would pop up. I took note. Oh, I would love to hear this list. So here we go. So cosmic music continues. That's in the very beginning. And when that popped up, I was like, okay, it's very cosmicy. And then it goes to haunting were cosmic wind churns, exotic medieval music, dramatic electronic twang, upbeat retro music, contemplative music, emotional retro music, retro tavern music, passionate music, which it wasn't very passionate, but it was not during the sexing. It was during the sexing, but it wasn't very passionate. It was like dancing here, calm retro music, somber music, epic retro music. I'm like, they're all fucking epic retro rock music, dramatic percussion, accordion, whirl. And then there was a great sound effect that popped up a great caption that I had to note knife squishes skin. But I don't know if bleeding skull did that the subtitles. That sounds very Joe and Annie does. There was no dungeon. In the synth, I was hoping, you know, I don't know if, but it was brilliant whenever it popped up. I was like, just typing away because there's a lot, a lot of music. This movie is surprisingly very music heavy with, there's a lot of dialogue, but I mean, it balances itself out with the music. Yeah. And the, so the sound effects, you mentioned like the squishy noise. I think it was in Sam's interview where he mentioned like a lot of the fully work that he did that Archie wanted in post, he was like crunching celery sticks and stabbing or cutting like lettuce heads in half. And like, I read that before rewatching it and I heard the lettuce and I was like, Oh, damn, I wish I hadn't read that before. I mean, it's fine. Like, I don't, I know like, that's funny, but I, I, yeah, I thought it was cute. It's like learning in Saika. What did he use? Did he use like a knife and a cantaloupe or a watermelon or something and you can kind of like every time I cut a watermelon, which is all the time, I don't know, but I hear it. I do that. Watermelon is delicious. I love watermelon, but I don't, I usually get it pre cut. Easy. I like it though. I get the personal, the small ones. Oh, there you go. Yeah. That's, yeah. But I don't eat it all at once, but. You don't like an apple. All right. Okay, score screen writers. So besides Archie Waugh, I mentioned Janie Kafka slash skipper. She also worked on a short film called The Maiden and that's also on the disc. This one's only about five minutes long. It's just, it's basically on a stage where like a maiden is in a cage and someone comes to rescue her. Very basic short film. Yeah. Filmed in '89. It, it seems like a, it's the same cast from, you know, I think there's only like five people that are all in Wayback Stone. It feels like it's like a lost deleted scene from Wayback Stone. Yeah. And then she also worked on the other film, The Bonus Movie. Yes. That's on this disc. This disc is stacked, y'all. Ionopsis from 1997, which is listed as a spiritual sequel to Wayback Stone. I'm going to say no. I would agree with you on that one. I mean, I get it. Like we're in a forest and we have a band of people going on a mission. And there's, I see the parallels to it, but Wayback Stone is so much better. Ionopsis is very dialogue, having not nearly as fun. Yeah. Exactly. Janie nailed it in her commentary when she said that Ionopsis is not as good as Wayback Stone, too much talking, not much action. And she wrote it. She wrote the Ionopsis. And it's, as I was watching it, I mean, my notes are like as long as Wayback Stone was watching it. This movie sucked me in. It's very horny. I mean, it's horny. Everyone at Red Fair is fucking horny. Yes. Yes. They're hanging out. Like men are swinging swords around. Like it's a horny affair. And it's a horny affair. And it's also a family affair. So what's going on there? Yeah. No. And as I was watching, I kept thinking that too. I'm like, okay, this is, you know, Jan and Janie are obviously very much. And they were into D and D. She said that that they played. They were, they didn't have a lot of money. So they bought like a D and D, you know, playbook and just a fun and expensive way to play on the weekends, do something on the weekends with friends. She loved comic books. She loved science fiction. And as I was watching Ionopsis, I was like, okay, I feel like, and this is no shade, but I feel like Larpers are like really nerdy fantasy people would be like laughing and loving all the dialogue because it is so much dialogue. It feels like it's two hours long of dialogue. Yeah. And I felt like some of it flew over my head. Like the way they were talking and like, dear sir, you know, come to the forest and let's sprinkle the fields with, you know, magic. But it's, I feel like she was probably pulling a lot of stuff that they know about that flew over my head. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like it's made for a smarter audience. It could be. It could also be like some D and D campaigns that were written. And like, let's turn this into a movie and like, how do you expand something? Oh, you write a lot of dialogue. Yeah. And like, yeah. Yeah, it doesn't. It, and also as soon as it started, it's very way back stoned. And then it turns kind of police academy-ish. And then it goes like into predator and there's so, talk about genre building and the music too and that thing was wild. Yeah. I just, I, I was so kind of, I fell in love with how ambitious the idea is. And in the very, in the setup, it's very soap opera. And when I took a step back, I was like, this is like days of our lives. So this is like Star Trek days of our lives are all like stargate. They're all on an exhibition. It was very stargate. Yeah. Yeah. And once I took a step back and realized, okay, it's all about the characters, we're going to watch these guys talk for hours. And that's what it was. I kind of fell in love with it. Yeah. So Archie, what I mentioned in his interview with Sam, so Janie Kafka, she plays the female lead. They started writing it and then her husband, the late Jan Skipper, who played the wizard Alladar, produced it. And then they ended up, he said, with 65 people in the movie. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. That's huge for a shot on video film. Like usually shot on video is like, you know, single location, maybe a few places outside and like maybe five people. Right. Yeah. This, and this was filmed online. I think Archie said he had six acres of his own land and where he still lives. All the interior shots, the sets were built in his home home, which is so impressive because they look like fucking castles. Yeah. It looks like, it looks, I think he said something like it looks like it's been lived and it doesn't look like we just popped these up. Yeah. And then when you take a step back again, it's like, okay, 65 people, $2,000 budget or whatever it is. I think Janie joked that everybody got paid at least a dollar is what she had said. Yeah. And it's smart film, like DIY filmmaking, going to a rent fair medieval event and bringing everybody who already has their costumes made and all their, their, you know, weapons are made. Yeah. You're what? You already have all that stuff. Plus, I think in what, I think in the Archie Walk commentary, he mentioned like Annie was talking about the attention to detail, how like in Aladar's home or his castle or whatever, like his main room has all these like trinkets everywhere and they look like they belong there. They do. And he was like, yeah, that's mostly from my house. Yeah. And my grandma or like he said, like his family members ran teakers and stuff and it was just, it's like a perfect storm. And then you get the bat, the music who are just relatives that probably, you know, they, they wanted to do it. They, they kind of threw their hat in the ring and they're doing everything for free. Very impressive. So Lance already mentioned a big portion of the budget, whether it was two or 3000 went to catering, also talked about the costumes. So was said in his interview that most everybody either had their own costumes or they made them or Janney kind of helped construct a few of them. He said it never bothered him if someone was wearing like some piece of modern clothing within there. And it's like, if you're pointing that out, you're sort of nitpicking. He said it wasn't meant to be a for profit project. And that's when, you know, the love really comes through, when someone's making something like this for fun, you can tell like they're, you, it's clear when you watch Waybad Stone, they're not doing it for money. You can tell like they just are having fun with what they're doing. So they ended up taking it to dragon con and selling it. And that's the audience for it, you know, they, I, he even mentioned taking out an ad in Fangoria and they sold some tapes that way as well, which I think is great. Well, I also said quote, I've always described it as a home movie that got out of hand because we really had no more intention to do anything with it other than make it for ourselves. And then once it was shot, I don't want to get into personalities, but there were, let us say some interpersonal conflicts, so to speak. And at one point, I was left my own devices and left to finish things. There were a lot of voices in my ear though that had an idea of what I should do. But I stuck very close to the shooting script as I edited it, which was done with two VCRs. If I was off by two frames, I'd have to do it again. It was analog and linear with no room for mistakes. And that's why it took so many months to finish the picture. Yeah, that's insane. Again, it's like the, the passion and the drive to just keep going. He could have just quit easily. Yeah. Because they're doing this. He was doing the stick to deck. Like everything was just VHS tape. I think he said in the commentary that one night he would spend up to like five hours on his particular scenes, doing deck to deck, getting all the shots and stuff and it pretty much added up to like 20 or 30 seconds, that editing job. I would quit. He was persistent. Yeah, he wanted to complete it. And that's where I'm like, oh, I love this DIY mentality. So mentioned the credits all being like designing the lettering and hand cutting those. The castle shots at the beginning were a toy castle that was shot against black cardboard that had pinholes in it. So that like sort of made the stars behind it. And he filmed that, I think that was on like top of like a desk or a dresser or something like that, he said, which I'm like, perfect. And then learning about how he pretty much handmade, he designed all of the VHS VHS box art himself, glued them all together or, you know, all handwritten stuff. It sounded like Joe bought one. Yeah. He has one. Yeah, Joe has one. I'm jealous. Yeah, bought it like, you know, bought a cheap on Amazon or something. Some guy was selling it used. But yeah, and there are only like a hundred of those made it, but he was just, yeah, selling these and Fingoria ads at comic conventions and Dragoncon, like it's, I love it. Let's see. Jan L. Skipper, who played Aladar and was producer. And then there's Jan or Janney, Kafka slash Skipper as Rosja. She is the lead lady fighter in the film, co-writer, co-producer, costumer. I don't know. She did everything. She was a new mom. She was taking care of kids like that. There was a lot going on. Well, no one's perfect. She just went down a little bit. Let's see. Gregory Miller played spar, AKA Dave Mustaine. You saw that, right? Oh, yeah. It wasn't just me. Like the minute he popped on screen, I was like, "They have Mustaine in this movie." This isn't Ben. Is there a guy named Bane? There it is. Yeah. That's on him. Yeah. I mean, everybody, I mean, all the men in this have a look. Well, some of them look straight like Haxall Jim Duggan. Like they look like WWE wrestlers from like the late 80s. Yeah. Like as soon as Lord Aladar popped up, I was like, this is like captains from the deadliest catch, like Adirin Fair, like he looks like Captain Bill. Or they all look like members of the Allman Brothers or something. Or Christmas Robins. Oh, okay. From the demon lover, like I felt like this guy could pop. I love the look of, I mean, everybody, the women look great too, but the men especially are like, "Okay, all these guys dreamt that they were a lead singer of a glam rock band at some point, especially Bane." Well, and spar. And spar. Well, he wouldn't do glam rock though. He loves Megadeth, I think. Yeah. He probably hates Metallica and James Hatfield and all the band members. Right. So he's singing about Hanger 18 and Mystics 5, 5 Magics. Yeah. All right. Well, as I said, Gary Miller, Barry Blankenship Mag played Phaedra and the demon at the end. Now, there's two other actors in this. There's Michael Mag and then there's Lou Blankenship. So I don't know if she's married to or related to one of those two, but I assume it's at least one of them. Yeah. Or both. Because Michael Mag is in it and he also, he plays Jagged Eye and did the lighting. And then Lou Blankenship was the ceramics artist on it. Jeffrey Lee played Creole and was the weapons master. And then, of course, I mentioned earlier that both Archie was, mom and sister are in the film as bar maids. And Sam mentioned it in our episode last week, how Archie really treasures this movie because his mom and sister, and it doesn't really have any memorabilia or photographs or video of them other than this. So like they sort of live in his memory in the film, which I think is great. Yeah, that's awesome. You mentioned something earlier about like the actual like swordsmen in this. Yeah. Well, Jan and Jan, Jan, Janie mentioned that her parents, I think were fencers. Her dad was a fencer and that her and Janie also were fencers. Like they were kind of not, I wouldn't say professional, but I think they did like tournaments and stuff. And they did stunt work at the Renfaire at the medieval events. They were quote stunt, stunt people. I mean, and you can see that too, like they're not just like sword cross, sword cross, sword cross, stab, you know, it's like, I mean, it is a little clunky for sure, but like they're also wielding actual heavy weapons too. But they're also like flipping over each other and doing like some wrestling moves. Jumping out of trees. Yeah. Yeah. And they're in from what Archie had explained was basically once they had the cast together, they had the script, they knew which two characters or more were battling against each other. He was basically like, you guys go off and choreograph your own fights. So you can see who are the stronger stuntmen are or the choreographed, you know, fighters. Yeah. But they're all equally endearing and fun to watch. And it's a huge battle at the end because you have background and foreground battles. It's happy. It's epic. There's a lot happening in all of us. And I think he said in the commentary too that like they had to have a schedule of who was fighting, who, when, because they needed to make sure like for continuity. I'm like, who thinks about continuity when making an SOV like fucking amazing, like you would even think to do that like anything else fucking, I love you, Tim Ritter. But my God, that man, like he would be throw someone in who died five minutes ago in the background, you know, in the crowd, like right behind somebody like it's, you know, whatever. It's fine. Yeah. The fact that he even planned this out to make sure like, okay, well, if you're fighting you're dying, then you can't be in the foreground of this scene, kind of, you know. Right. And if you're running in the background, I made note of that, that your fight is coming up, you know, like it's like the attention to detail. I know Janie Skipper in her commentary, she said that Archie was like, he was an amazing director, his attention to detail was like insane. One of my favorite things also included on the special features is that photo gallery. Did you go through that? Yeah. A lot of those are on the, there's a Waybad Stone Facebook page, which I found years ago when I first watched this film and I was like, oh my God, this is a super sharp, clean pictures, all of like, you know, the making of behind the scenes. And you see Archie Wald dressed in his loincloth, smoking a cigarette, like leaning into the camera. And I'm like, I don't know, it's funny, like he was probably in that character the entire shoot and he was, you know, conducting this kind of masterpiece. He had all the notes in his head and he probably had, you know, he's just like a master wearing a loincloth and a beaded necklace. So I have, I know you're going to be surprised. I have never larped before. So I cannot speak to the culture of it. But I know you and your friends made your own movies when you were younger. Do you feel like there is, like these two things are very complimentary? Like it almost is like, why aren't there more of these? Because larping seems like, just pick up a video camera and make an SOV movie, like it's just, it just seems to go so well together and it's just sort of the sort of like intersection of these subcultures that I love. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I mean, I never got into larping either, but I did, you know, as I was watching, whenever I watch movies like this, like you brought up, I brought up to, it takes me back to C double TV, you know, our production company, when we would make these skits, Captain Tripp's television, we were a big deal. And we would dress up, you know, I mean, it was a form of larping. We would create our own characters or we would reenact our own movies, but watching movies like this, it just takes me back in time and I can't help but watch something that went out like this without a smile on my face or laughing at like, oh yeah, I know how he shot that. You know, because we just had a camcorder too, a VHS camcorder. And it always reminds me too, there are certain scenes in this, especially maybe with Archie Waugh's look, I kept thinking of Michael Lee in black from the state. And I kept, and the state was, I love kids in the hall. You know, I love upright citizens brigade, but like the state has a special place in my heart because I was really like, we would watch that a lot, you know, the whole cast, I think are great. But there's like, when I was watching Wayback Stone, I kept thinking of the state and how just how fun it is and how into character, everybody's staying and sincere. But you know, it could be perceived as just a complete joke. But larping now, I do have friends, I had a lot of gamer friends that would larp. Really? Yeah. They would dress up. And they go to, you know, Renfaire, Renfest, and here in Austin, Renaissance Fest, I guess is. I've never been. I've never been either. It just seems so hot. Yeah. And if you're all geared up and you're wearing like leather satchels and I'm, you know, that's where I'm like, I'm out. Yeah. I've been to the closest I've been to is medieval times. Mm. Do they have that out here? Or was that just in California? No, there was one. There was one I think closer to like New Braunfels, I want to say. Okay. That's like with the jousting and the fighting and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, oh no, you know, I think I went to like one thing that I had back in Long Beach. I appreciate how devoted like everyone at those things is to what they're doing. Oh, yeah. And that definitely carries over here into this. And you can tell kind of like who the stage actors are versus like the Renfaire people who are just like, I got the cool costume and my sword and what do you, what do you want me? That's one thing too about the swords in this, nobody has a sheath and they're for their fucking sword. So they're either like just throw, you know, stab it into the dirt when they're shooting the shit or they just haven't like leaned over their shoulder, you know, carrying it over their shoulder. Yeah. Where are the sheaths? I guess you have to be ready. If you, if you stay ready, you ain't got to be ready. That's an, that's an ice cube quote. Okay. So that's what they're doing. Yeah. They're ready for battle. Yeah. Yeah. There's this one moment where. So Lance mentioned how this was filmed on like, well, I had like six acres and they were filming on there. There's one moment towards the end where they're fighting and one of the dudes acts as a tree and it nearly falls down. And both of them pause really quick. Like they have this like, Oh shit moment. And like the, they kind of like looked like over their shoulder a little bit and that it kept rolling. So it was like, Oh shit. We almost killed one of his trees. Sorry bro. You know, I was like, I don't know in my head. I was like, Oh, they're thinking like, Oh shit, we're going to get in trouble with like the forestry department or something. That's funny. Yeah. That I do know exactly the scene you're talking about because it did remind me whenever we would rough house me and my brothers would, would rough in the backyard and we would break a tree. We would break a limb. My dad was huge into like, you know, everything he was growing in the yard. Yeah. It was like, I felt that I was like, dad's going to yell at you like you're in trouble here guys. Do you have a favorite character? I do. I think it's Bane. Okay. That's the long hair. So I'm going to get very specific here again. Bane reminded me at first he popped up, you know, like a bloated Vince Neil guy. He's the guy that he's kind of the leader of the group. It sounds like for the most part, the bad guys, but he also looks like Andrew Wood from Mother Love Bone. You know, Mother Love Bone is I don't. Here before Pearl Jam became Pearl Jam. Okay. So it's Jeff Amman, Stone Gossard, or in it. Okay. Tippo the dog was written about Andrew, because he died of a heroin overdose. Anyways, Andrew Wood, the singer, looked just like Bane. Okay. Exactly. And Chris Jericho, the wrestler, he's my favorite. Again, like I said, I felt like he was the guy to like where, and he's in some of the photo gallery scenes where he's just like rocking out, you know, he's got like a torn up shirt that he probably just wears every day to work or something. I'm like, this guy is a lead singer of some band, some glam rock band. I felt like he had the roughest death too. Yeah. Yeah. He was stabbed. He was gutted. And then at the very end, spoiler alert, the demon pretty much like scalps him. He's a tough motherfucker. And he should eat it like his character didn't deserve to be that tough, which is what kind of I appreciate. Like he just kept going and I'm like, oh shit, Bane's back. And when he was fighting, there was one of my favorite scenes too, when he's fighting the guy. He smashes his face into like the cut open stomach of his friend, he's like, yeah, just rubbing his. Yeah. Bane was my favorite. I was very, he was a charismatic guy. He felt like a wrestler. Like I was watching a really good wrestler perform. There's some great deaths in this too, like that one that you mentioned and I know I've mentioned it before, but like this isn't a horror movie until like the last, and even then like it's not really a horror, it's just a, it's a bloody sword and sorcery movie at the end. Yeah. But, you know, there's axes to the heads, there's impalements, there's scalpings, there's hands are getting chopped off decapitations from like the demon like throwing heads around and like it's just so much fun. And I think he mentioned there were like six gallons of stage blood used for this. And in a very short period of time, like there's a few kills leading up to it. Right. Blood are summons, you know, all the warriors, yeah, to get the band back together. And like the big guy, he's like best friends with Rosja, I can't remember his name. I liked him. Yeah, he was cool. But he's like battling like three guys and then he gets to call and he is like, oh fuck it. And he just once fails swoop just fucking kills them all. And I was like, I like, yeah, he got so like and it's, it's, yeah, there's a throat rip too. Yes. There is like a roadhouse throat rip. There's one guy who is like, he has a spear, I think in him and then he walks up to the other guy and you know, pushes the other guy onto a spear and then he falls on him and then he kisses him. Do you? Yes. I mean, there are scenes in this that like it just pot like I'm just like, where's this going? And like, I'm, and we haven't talked about the sex scene, neither of that pops up. No, no. So one of the guys who gets summoned is in the middle of having sex. He's apparently a jiggalo because he's the one who's supposed to get paid. Right. He's like, he's like, he can pay me next time. Yeah. And he's, he's fucking and he gets to summons and he's like, well, gotta go. And he just pieces out right, right then and there like respect, you know, leaving before you nut like good for him. Yeah. I mean, he looked a little bit like MacGyver again. I'm like, this is here. My name is MacGyver and you know, it was a very angry Cleopatra that was, that was, he was given it too. And as soon as that scene it pops out of nowhere and there's ass, there's ass shots and I'm like, what is happening in this movie? Like, it's, it's going to another level. Like, I don't know what to expect moving on. Yeah. And then he leaves and she grabs a banana and I'm like, Oh, yes. Are we? And then she's like, no, she throws a banana and I was like, okay, well, it's a thought that counts. It is. And, you know, that's, it's just as good. So I mean, I mentioned, I did a really brief summary at the beginning, but so Aladar, you know, he gets his stone stolen, he gets his like band of helpers back together. Like he summons all of them, but really, like there's, you can kind of tell there's something sinister going on behind, like behind his eyes, like once like he gets everyone together and like they're starting to suspect it. And in the end, like everyone fucking dies, like it's complete carnage. Yeah, there is a Darth Vader moment with Aladar where he's like, we must find Arith or Arith, the girl. And one of the guys like, or he says, we must find Arith. That is foremost. Yes. Again. Awesome. Awesome dialogue. And one of his warrior friends says, and the stone, and he's like, leave the stone to me. Yeah. And very Vader, like he just kind of walks off. And that's when you obviously know, like this guy's up to something. But yeah, at the end, it's like any of your favorite characters, don't be too attached to it. Yeah. Because, you know, female darkness from legend pops out like she, her makeup is badass. It is. She wins. As well, she should, you know, it is the age of demons now because she has killed all the protectors of the Red King. And yeah, now it's like, now it's demon times and I, I welcome it. And that's probably where like, it doesn't, she like picks somebody up, I think it's Phaedra or something. And it's just like a gallon of blood going down her legs. That was really cool. Yeah. It gets, it gets gory at the end. It's worth sticking around. I mean, I think I'd want to talk about one of my favorite scenes, which is in the tavern. And I think it's Janie Skipper playing the, she's getting ready to take her top off because she lost some bet. And you know, all the guys are like, yeah, yeah, you know, I'll be in stupid. And then she has that vision, the summon, she's like, I got a split. And then the guy's like, no, I won this bet. She reaches and she kisses them and says, I'll make it up to you. And everybody just starts laughing all just so cheesy. And the guy that she's kissing, it looks like he's getting ready to cry, but he starts busting out laughing like a crazy person. And she turns around and lists her sort up. I think that scene kind of summarizes my joy watching this movie. It's like, everybody is happy. You don't know what emotion they're trying to portray because of their acting abilities for the most part, but it's still so endearing and so much fun to watch. What are my favorite scenes without a doubt? Yeah, this is one of those. It's like, why did I initially watch it? It was either on YouTube or Cave of Forgotten Films like a few years ago. And then just randomly, like, I saw something and I saw the description and I was like, oh, yeah, it's just so refreshing to see people have fun making movies and verified by the interview where they weren't doing it to make money. They were genuinely doing something like this for fun, like getting their friends together. And that type of, there's not even really, I mean, there is ambition behind it because of how hard he worked on it after the fact, but there's not these delusions of grandeur. It's no Steve Burkett type movie where he's thinking he's making the next fucking post apocalypse, Mad Max movie or whatever. It's just so genuine and refreshing and movies like this just make me happy. 100%. And I kept thinking too, when I was listening to the commentary, like, how you stumbled on it by accident. And I was like, oh my God, I love this. Can you imagine answering the Fengori ad, sending off the, I looked, because they, in the photo gallery, they did have the ad, somebody still had the ad. And it was, quote, the first sort of sorcery splatter movie, vengeful wizards, beautiful babes and less, less de warriors and blood splattered combat, incredible body count, not rated, 1995 plus $2 shipping. And could you imagine like, okay, I'm going to do this, send it it off, like whatever it was, 1991, receiving this, pop it in it in your VCR and like just, you know, depending on, you know, the, whoever the person is, but just fucking falling in love with this and being like, and you don't know the history of it. That's what's, you know, there's not really much internet like back then, but once you learn the history of this, it's even more impressive. That's why nobody should look down on these type of movies. Yeah. And that's, and that's the thing too, is like, I obviously, I could have picked this movie years ago and I think the only source I would have had would have been Sam's interview, which is fine, because actually pretty much everything that Sam talked to Archie about was in the commentaries, but then you have Janney's commentary, you have the additional films and the shorts and like all the other stuff. And so I'm glad I waited to pick this movie and I'm glad we finally got to cover it. I hope more people watch it. Do you have any other final thoughts about way bad stone lands? I mean, obviously we love it, but you have to, you have to take it for what it is. Sure. I mean, most of these movies you do, this is a bunch of friends and family member, literally, getting together and making a movie for, let's say, less than $3,000, spending weeks. Like, I think they said they started shooting in November 1990 and ended maybe early January. So, you know, shooting on weekends, everybody's working day jobs, everybody's, Janney says she was taking care of two kids. You know, everybody's throwing in there like a few dollars they have. Jan was a surveyor at some like big engineering company and he pretty much paid for everything that he could and he would work nights. You just kind of take a step back and take it, take it for what it is, like all these guys just stuck with it, Archie would spend, who probably knows how many collective days editing this thing, deck to deck, it's just so impressive to think about somebody who just stays this persistent and makes something that just puts a smile on my face when I watch it and I laugh and I can't wait to watch it again. So, love it, love the pic, glad you waited as well because you have been telling me you got to watch this since day one and I... Yeah, I literally had to buy this movie for Lance to get him to find me and pick it for the podcast to get him to find me to watch it. And I'll openly admit, I'll be the first to admit it, I dropped the ball on that. But again, it's a perfect time. It's great for horror gifts back, you'd be your unsung horror's pic, you'd be your bleeding skull, you could be your 1990 pic, yeah, there's a lot of categories and I recommend everybody watch it and buy the Blu-ray. If you can. If you can. All right. I don't think I can, I think they limit you, so I've already bought my two copies. I think they... It's just probably per order, you think, or is it actually flagged to your account? I don't know. So yeah. No, I'm not buying it for people, you guys can get it yourself. I'm fucking rich. I guess I could buy two. No. All right. Lance, double feature pic. Speaking of two. Speaking of two, I mentioned Christmas Robbins already in this, okay? And every man has a look and every guy has a look in way back in stone. And as soon as Christmas, Christmas Robins as LaValle blessings, I think was his name. As soon as he popped up in my head, I couldn't stop thinking of the demon lover. So... And it's awesome to think about how Wayback Stone was made in 1990 where the demon lover was 1976, 77. And how... There's similarities there, visually, especially, like I feel like they could each have popped up in either movie. That is my double feature pic. We have a whole episode on it, obviously, that it was one of your picks. You should listen to that episode. If you do watch the demon lover, you have to watch demon lover diary. Yep. It's mainly due to the look, the acting abilities of the characters. There is a fantasy element, there are swords, there's a crossbow, a guy gets shot in the dick. Yep. By a crossbow. They're castles. There's a great line from Christmas Robbins that says, "Well, if there's no hassle, let's go inside the castle." Oh my God. I remember that. Yeah, it's so bad. There's a demon, but it's all about the long haired, subjectively bad actors. And I think it's just a fun, I think they're both around like 83 minutes, and it'd just be a good time to just smile and laugh with your friend. What about yours? So in Sam's interview with Archie, he actually asked him, "What were some of your influences on Waybad Stone?" And Archie said, "I liked stuff like sword and sorcerer, death stalker, and beastmaster a lot, but I also grew up on peplum films. When I was a kid, that was my Saturday afternoon watching Hercules or Macie's Day, or whatever they renamed them in the US. I appreciate the frank amount of gore that they had in them for the time. So I am going with what's probably my favorite gory sword and sorcery film, and that is Full Cheese Conquest from 1983. Oh, yes. Slightly higher budget. But it's a sword and sorcery film with just, it's got that filter on it, lots of haziness, the gore. Just one of those movies that you can just put on in the lazy afternoon and just, you don't need to know really what's going on. You're just enjoying what's in front of you. Yeah, that's a great big. Thank you. Good stuff. I thought you were going to go with Croll, because I remember Janie and her commentary said she was a big fan of Croll, and I was like, "Oh, that's a good, that's a good double feature." I'm not the biggest fan of Croll. No. Yeah. That was one I grew up on. Yeah. Conquest is better. I think I remember my review saying only Full Cheese can make a burning body feel like a love-making scene. It's all hazy and beautiful music. Yep. But yeah, I need to re-watch that movie. Yeah. All right. Next pick, Lance. Next pick. So I am going to be traveling for about a week. So this is going to really kind of hinder my ability to watch movies, unfortunately. It's going to be very limited. So I hope our listeners don't think I'm trying to be lazy here with this pick, because I'm picking something that I feel like will have very little research. But every time I do that-- You jinxed you, just fucking jinxed yourself every time. Yeah, it doesn't matter if I say it a lot or not. Every time I think that, like, "Okay, this is a busy week for both of us," and I don't want to spend too much time. And you know, I love doing research for all of our episodes, but sometimes time is minimal, especially when like, horror goes back. There's a lot going on. Yeah. And like, the stupid traveling that's kind of interrupting stuff. But every time I do pick a movie based on that, I go down a fucking rabbit hole, and like, I never come out. Like, I'm going to find something about this. And I think you will, too. I mean-- Okay. This is a movie we've talked about. We brought up on the podcast a couple of times. Okay. Maybe that stars one of our favorite actors. It's actually a movie that he directed. It's his only movie that he directed. Oh. It's been made. It's a movie that's been made fun of. I think I know what this is. I'm talking about Jon Saxon. Okay. Okay. And I think the first time I watched this, I thought about, I think I watched it thinking it was going to be a pick, but then I was like, "I don't know, man, this isn't the greatest." Yeah, but you said that about a point with fear, too. And that turned out to be a great episode. Yeah. And I think this will be the same with Zombie Death House from 1988. Okay. The only movie Jon Saxon ever directed. What's it about? Okay. So there are a ton of plot holes in this thing, right? But it's pretty much about an insane government official, a colonel played by Jon Saxon, who takes over a prison and begins testing out his newly invented virus. A virus designed to significantly alter the behavior of convicts serving life sentences. And as soon as they're injected, the unwilling subjects become these mad killers, but later they become these slimy walking corpses in various states of decay. And they're kind of oozing this highly contagious body, bodily fluids that infect the whole cell block. So the uninfected inmates began to riot, and only the wrongly imprisoned Vietnam vet Dennis Cole and his biochemist/investigative reporter friend, Tanya Carrington, can stop. Jon Saxon from turning them all into zombie killers. That's not really with the movie. No. I mean, it's about that, but it's an action movie with like really poor. We'll talk about it. Okay. It's on YouTube. It's sitting at 564 views on Letterbox. Yeah. And I'm excited to spend some time on it. We've talked about it a little briefly. Yeah. Like I said, it's definitely more action genre than horror, but it's 100% a total mess, which are my favorites. It's on 2B, too. It is on 2B. It's on 2B? Yeah. Good. Okay. It's on 2B as well. Well, that's what Letterbox says. But... I think it is. I think you're right. But I know that there is a good, a good copy on it. It was my review last time I watched this. I think you said something about how it breaks your heart that you can't, Jon Saxon, that it can only give it three stars or something. Yeah. Yeah. It hurts me to only give this a generous three stars because in my heart, Saxon can do no wrong. I stand by that. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think I even rated it last time. I didn't. Coward. I didn't. I mean, there's some movies where I'm just like, am I the right state of mind? Is this too powerful of a fucking experience for me to even rate? But this will be one of my very few rewatches during the month of October because Hora Gisback's going strong. Yeah. This is probably going to change my... What was going to be my tentative pick for No Rules November? That's okay. Is Jon Saxon in that? But... We can always dump you. I know, but it's also kind of semi... it's too close, which is fine. Like, I had a lot on my list and I was leaning towards that and then I was like, I have plenty of ideas. There's too many ideas for No Rules November. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Yeah, I really wanted to pick because I don't have Zombie Death House because it's not a first time watch on my Hora Gisback list and I was going to take the Philippines movie. I was going to pick Doris Wishman's A Taste of Flesh, which I love but Doris Wishman deserves a lot of times. Yeah, that's... Maybe even a guest. Maybe even a guest. Oh, he's going to get Liz. Yeah. So, that one's on the back burner because I did watch that and that was a lot of fun. I started on my Hora Gisback. Oh, well, you should. It's the third of the month. Well, no, I started pre... like, I think I've watched like six movies so far. Oh, good for you. My list. And I'm going to catch up this weekend. It's Friday in October off and the last week of my month. Oh, shit. I'm going to get... we have a fucking person matching donations. I am not fucking around this month. Yeah. I'm going to watch, hey, whoever you are, I'm going to watch 500 movies and I'm going to donate $80,000. You're never going to have that much to match, don't go hang on. I will not have a house. I will not have a car anymore. I will just say that if we do, as well, we did last year, then we'll have a match. I'll leave it at that time. Wow. That's amazing. I love kind people. I do too. I love our listeners. They're very kind. Yes. They are. And this is just amazing. So, all right, so next episode, Zombie Death House. If you're not already, you can follow this podcast on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, all on SunHors. I'm on Letterbox, Instagram, and you know what? I'm going to get off Twitter soon because a book is sold out. Yes, congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you. If you are listening to this and like, what book were you talking about and you find out what it is and you're like, "I want one." I put up a link to a wait list on there. And if I get enough people that get on that wait list, then I will do a reprint. But I am not doing it because, like, four or five people wind me. You're doing it. Right. You're lost. Sorry. I am tired and I don't want to sell any more books right now, all right? The demand is there. I know it. That's somewhere. But I'm going to anyway, I'm going to -- my answer can be for all of you. You can follow me on Instagram and Letterbox at LShivy, that's S-C-H-I-B-I, like a timid beat, Shivy. I don't know. All right. Thanks for everyone for listening. We'll see you back next episode and keep up those watches for horror gives back. Bye. Bye. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the "Someone's Favorite Productions" podcast network, please select the link in the description. [MUSIC] Hello, my name is Kevin Tudor and I'm one of the three hosts of almost major -- a film podcast dissecting many major indie studios in the films they release. Every week, myself, Charlie Nash and Bryton Doyle discuss overlooked, forgotten or bonafide classic indie films via studio-specific miniseries. We've previously covered numerous films from Artisan Entertainment, Lionsgate Films, and New Line Cinema titles including The Blair Witch Project, American Psycho, Dogville, but I'm a cheerleader, Saw, Requiem for a Dream, and Ringmaster, you know the Jerry Springer film. We have a fun time every week and we hope you will join us. Subscribe to almost major wherever you get your podcast. Now proudly a part of the "Someone's Favorite Productions" podcast network. [BLANK_AUDIO]