Welcome to the top floor podcast My name is Darren Canthal and today we have the CEO of Denver beer co Robert McGeckrin. They say it right you did Thank you for New Yorker So out of the gates here, let's just say it right you're a Boston guy and I'm from New York and as much We like each other. We also have a natural hatred, right? Yeah, I mean I've gotten to like you a little bit. I guess but there's not really never truly gonna like you I mean if you came to me and you said you were a Mets and Jets fan I'd probably probably be a little bit easier between us, but Giants and Yankees unacceptable Yes, yes, and of course my favorite stat is Eli Manning is 2-0 against Brady in the Super Bowl, right? I got these things I gotta go All right, take a take a moment introduce yourself tell the people who you are sure I'm Rob McGeckrin on the CEO of Denver beer co I've been with Denver beer co a little under two years now. So I moved to Denver about under two years ago I have two daughters and one of them actually lives here in Denver. You know Michaela's a schoolteacher in Aurora shaping young minds and doing all the right things and and then my youngest daughter's Ryan is a last year of law school in Universe, South Carolina. So my two daughters of my daughter like I said was out here so giving the opportunity to spend more time with her and be here and I've been enjoying Denver and beautiful outdoors and the great golf courses Great golf. Okay. So you're a golfer. I am a golfer Yeah, I don't know how good I am though. I like I've been playing for a long time and it just doesn't Just doesn't seem to get better. You know, you'll walk up to the ball You hit it really well and you're like, all right, then you walk up to the next shot It looks like you've never played before Right, and so all right. Yeah, I but I'm a player. So I should just say that I Use like a joke that I'm good for seven holes. Ha ha Good, I suck and my patience and my attention span Don't normally equate to good golf However, I'm going play on Sunday and I'm pretty sure we're playing 18 So I guess I'll have to be good for 15 holes. Well, that's what the beer is for. That's right. That's right. I played in the tournament of veterans tournament Last week of the week before and they had the longest driver contest winner like the guy with the longest drive 451 yards Wow, and he would drive for you if you know, you know, if you gave money, right if you donated money and Oh My his club head speed was like I'm never gonna let one of my friends tell me to slow my club head speed again Because like you could barely see the club going through the air. I mean, it was wicked So yeah, but I'm yeah, I'm with you. I'm good. I'm good for 95 Alright, so he touched upon the east coast thing which which is an important piece because as you and I were talking Today and also last week when we met we were talking somewhat about the differences between the northeast and Colorado And one of the things that you said was important for you in your career was having thick skin And I'd love for you to elaborate a little bit on what does it mean to you to be thick skin and why has that been beneficial for your career? Um, yeah, so Again, Boston, New York I mean like the east coast is just moves at a different pace And you know, when I moved here to denver actually it really occurred made me 10 years ago and I think that maybe it's more generational right than it is Um, location, but definitely in denver. There's a emphasis on quality of life, right and that work-life balance Um, where on the east coast in New York, Boston, even in places like chicago Um, it's very fast paced, right? It's very your work till it's done 10, 12 hours, that's Expectations and you move to places like denver here and it is Um, it has this work-life balance. It's pretty unique. So I know that I was like who I am, right? And what part of my ethos of you know as far as a business a business person Is um, I talked to people about three things, right? So when I when I moved here, I'm in the office at 630 in the morning I'm staying at 630 at night and a lot of people that worked around me We're getting a little concerned, right? They were like, what does he expect me to be here at 630 in the morning until 630 at night And even where I had a conversation with a few people saying, you know, people a little worried Is this what you expect from them? So I'd be pretty clear that that wasn't what I expected from them, right? I had to uh, I had to say this is who I am. This is how I work. Yeah, you know, maybe But if maybe if I was as good as my job as I could get it done in 40 hours, that'd be great But it's a work in progress, right? Constant learning and so It was a level of reassurance that I don't think We had a lot of over the last, you know 15 years ago, let's say 20 years ago, especially on the east coast It was like no, you stay here until you're done and so I think that you just develop this Um thick skinness where you're you know, you're okay with those difficult conversations You're okay with being you know working long hours and and things like that, you know And one of the things I did to kind of break the ice with folks is Um on this issue with I talk about this my ethos and it's you know be yourself Be present and be fearless and and and so being yourself is so important Like you like you don't have to be who I am Like that's not my expectations, right? My expectations are For you to be you and we'll figure out how the dynamic of our relationship works um and I think that it went a long way for a lot of the folks that um Look at life and work in a different way than I do right and it made them more comfortable in approaching me On on different things and you know, so I think I think that approach for me Um worked especially especially not only here in dumber Like but with the with with the younger generation who has it that is dynamic of um work life balance that Quite honestly, you know, I didn't have it when I started in this industry and so it's it's it's it's been beneficial for me to manage that way from a um Um, yeah from a here's who I am be who you are and that's what's important um And you know and along with that when I talk about being present I go I try to go to every event or super event driven, right? Um, you know the beer industry every there's events every week every weekend Um, and if I'm not at 95 percent and probably at 100 And but again, I like that's how I read right my expectations You did to be there when you're needed and when it's important not at all of them. Um, and I I just think being present Goes a long long way Right it goes a long way to people that maybe only see you once a month or once every couple of weeks and Going into the tap rooms going on the production facility Going to these events with these event planners. They spend a lot of time and effort right and a lot of discretionary effort putting these events together and Showing up's important. And so It had to be clear about that too, right like that Yeah, I make the going on all three beer dinners, but I don't expect you to do that Like that you know that that that's how I do it. And I think I need to do that Um, I don't necessarily think you need to now there are times where I expect people to be present right now I mean At certain events with certain things or meetings. Um, but all the overarching strategy is to be yourself Um, be present when you're supposed to and and when you're present like truly be present, right? Be authentically listening via you know be authentic while you're there nothing Nothing drives me more crazy than having a leader going to a tap room or a restaurant and I'm sitting in the corner on their laptop Uh, I don't know like you're there to help you're there. You know, you're there to somehow help this individual or move a hurdle and what's more important is your email And so I you know That's been something that for a long time that I've insisted on that you know, we do our admin In the office or at home. We can be connected and authentic when we're in the we're in our units, right? Um And then with the fearless part to me is again, I I think we're we all make mistakes, right? And we're going to and you've got to give people that You got to give them that, um Lean and see to make mistakes and because iteration is the is the mother of all innovation And if we don't make mistakes, you know, you know, ron shake is the, um, ceo of panera And I remember him sitting there talking about something and and he looks at me He's like, you know, robert if you get shit done the first time You're not doing difficult stuff. You're not doing hard stuff. Yeah, like what are you doing with your time? And I've never forgot that like Because I need so many times you go. Oh, I can't you talk to people like, oh, I can't believe I didn't get it right the first time and well That's okay And so you got to give people that space. I think to be fearless and make mistakes And again, I think that is something that a lot of us learn the hard way and then I think with um in today in today's world People have got to be taught that and learn to be able to understand they they can make mistakes and I want you to make mistakes. I want you to learn from them. I don't want to make the same mistake over and over again But you can it's okay to it's okay not to be right all the time So so again, I think we learned by fire and then and now um, hopefully we're we're leading in a different way, right and we're getting better at our approach to people and um our approach to leadership and whether it's subordinates whether it's, you know, people that work for you people that you work with or um, you know people you work for Uh, I think that approach is is appreciated in my every level Let me ask you about being present because this is something that quite frankly I work on quite a bit for myself and it's been this You know journey As much as I dislike that word. I think it's overused these days, but nonetheless um When someone is present actually let me rephrase You when you are present you're not on the email. You're you know with the people whoever that may be And your brain wanders Right. How do you how do you manage your brain? How do you? Remain mentally present when it wants to escape or move or you know i'm trying to ask Yeah, so especially in the hospitality and restaurant world, right? There's so many moving paths. There's a ton of energy um And you've really got to train yourself to be an authentic listener, right? I mean and I think if you authentically listen to people They they they realize that's what's occurring, right? They they they realize you're not You know looking off to these, you know Looking off. Oh man. What's going on with that customer? But i'm trying to talk to you about you know your family or that your shift or whatever that looks like and I think that's training and it and I think it comes from Years of doing that um with not just work people but with my family Right, so I learned I learned a long time ago that yet you had to tell yourself the truth, right? You you constantly have to do this in the self-reflection where you're being honest with yourself your team and your family It's very difficult if you you know tell your family you're going to be You know home at two o'clock for the soccer game, you know in your book with meetings until five Right, you're you're heading for disaster, right? And and it's the same thing with your team. You overcommit and you can't deliver Um, you're not being true to yourself and and when you net and that applies to Decision-making with people with business with what a finance whatever it is. You've got to take that You've got to take that truthful approach when you make these decisions and and so that was always my approach and One of the had kids I traveled a lot, right? I mean, I I just traveled that we were just talking had an apartment in a different city I you know what I mean from a different state than I lived in because it made it easier for me to um, you know Go back and forth. I traveled, you know a great deal internationally where you know flights are 20 hours and you're not going for three days, right? and but I think the key For my my whole life was I was always present when I was there or I shouldn't say always I would make You know hall of finger, but um, I I always tried to be present when I was there and and there were times That I wasn't and my kids called me out on right but they they would call me out on it. I remember one particular time My daughter was doing a violin recital And you know when I was there by myself and they were you know, it was probably 25 parents there And as the other kids were going I had my iPad open and I was kind of flipping through it. Well, my daughter saw that And you know, so we go home after her thing and I put it down when she was playing So we went home And then she was a little off and I was you know, so you know later on that night I was around with you She's like, you know, I know you came dad, but like you weren't paying attention on your lap. Yeah, I and I And I thought to myself, you know, that's pretty wise for a nine-year-old, right? And and I think it was because we I was on the road so much they understood that that time was limited, right? And so How do you make the most of it? And and the same thing here with work like I you know, I go to tap rooms Every week, you know, I'd have a day or every other week. I have a day where I would try to go to You know, three or four tap rooms. I'm always in a tap room on the weekends We're in the beer industry, right? So it is It's not hot to go in there and talk to people have a beer, whatever you want to do, right? It's like we have brewers and tap rooms. They want you to try their product um And you go, okay but I think that for me it had been like a long time of being disciplined to not just my family but work and saying Here's the time I have for this if if And again, I think it's that balance between home and life and work, right? Here's here's I only have this many. This is the only thing we share as humans, right? It's 24 hours and a day and Here, I you know, I'm here for one hour what can I do for you? How can I listen and I'll have a I'll have a 20-minute conversation with a line cook with the guy the dishwasher I'll have a 20-minute conversation with a Manager GM doesn't matter to me. It's about engagement and then helping them solve problems as you as you go along and like Then there's such a prerequisite for leadership that It almost seems so obvious But it's a skill center to your point, right? It's you know, you long time you've been working on How do you remain present? And I think it starts by authentic listening Yeah, right Yeah, there's so many things to comment on Um, I'll just say a couple of things and then let's segue just a little bit is Balance is an interesting term especially when we talk about work play work life balance And as I talk to people about that sentiment There's a lot of times it's either said directly or inferred that it's like 50/50 and I don't think with work life balance. It necessarily is that I mean, you know, when you're traveling back and forth from New York and Boston Doesn't sound like you had 50 percent of your time at home and 50 percent in New York It's so balanced to me is more of like What is the appropriate or reasonable or balanced time that even if it's 80/20 in whatever direction if that's balanced great? But I think it's very personal and it's not a ubiquitous singular singular Constant for every single person like work life balance is very unique. Teach person. Yeah, no So I'm you know pre kids You know, I'd say my wife. I'd say hey listen um To meet me in New York for dinner take the train down Right And then that was our time to get we take the train home or whatever that looked like right meet me at a restaurant for dinner And we'll we'll go from here. It was easy. You could just pick up and go Right and then as as time goes on and you build a different family dynamic That alone changes everything right that alone is not like now work until seven o'clock and then meet in your partner for dinner um is Is much more difficult because well, we got to find a babysitter. We've got to find Um, you know some, you know, what are we gonna do in the morning? We can't stay out late who's gonna drive home all these different things, right? And and so I think that changes and that's just one example that changes that balance because life happens, right I think the mistake is is is separating the two like It's like because we're trying to find balance between this world and that world And in that's that's impossible Like it's impossible for people like myself right who you know have so much responsibility So many things going on that it is always going to bleed into This side right the home side of life that the home balance end and and so I I think our I think we try to make this very kind of Stripped this is home life. This is work life even if it doesn't occur. That's what we're doing But we again back to are we telling that ourselves the truth Like are we like am I am I at home and never taking a phone call? Right am I at home never going to have to manage through a crisis or book flights or have something else to do Yeah, I Wish that was the case, but it's just not and and so again it goes back to telling yourself the truth And I don't I don't know if we do that enough. I don't I don't I think that the idea of trying to separate things so dramatically It becomes very difficult and we spend more time managing that process than really managing our lives and those relationships and You know, I've always enrolled my family into my work life Always and so it my two daughters Love den verbirko right my my oldest. I mean we she got my oldest got married in june and We you know we had a celebration in a taproom on the thursday before and then Was the sunday after she wanted to go to her favorite taproom and say goodbye to everybody before she went on the honeymoon, right? Again, it's sten verbirko. It's beer. It's like good food. It's you know, I mean we It's not a hard sell, but I've always enrolled them in that my my youngest is a baker and um, you know, she's my youngest is the over $2 fireland lessons baking and and she's so smart and they're both really smart and The my youngest I'm really got into baking and as a business model like Making money like that. That was her idea, right? She put thousands of dollars in the bank by the time she left high school from like baking christmas I mean our christmas but cupcakes and birthday cakes for families in the neighborhood and Went got into the place where she was doing Um cooking classes baking classes for birthday parties and things like this, right? Um, but during my time at dena deluca. She was able to come into um the city and work with like some amazing chefs like joe murphy who was john george's pastry chef for 15 years And you know, he's amazing. She got to work with him You know, she they did an event together and so and even my oldest came and did an internship with us and so we've um We've always enrolled or i've always enrolled my kids in my family into my work life as much as I can Because it it just makes it easier for them to understand and you know, my oldest was doing this internship far as at dena deluca and she's sitting outside my office and She comes in half the day because I was having my weekly one-on-ones with my department heads And she walks into the office and she goes all as you do is talk all day Yeah, and so when i'm home you understand why it's hard for me to think I want to talk about, you know things that I don't want to talk about And so she's you know, so again enrolling them. I think has been very helpful for me um And I think it it makes it less of a clear line of this is work stuff This is own stuff and that's been helpful for me because like I said my it'll my My daughters they can you know, they understand what I do every day. You know, they they see it, right? They they they've seen it and so um, it's been helpful But I I think I think the authentic listening and the being present Is is going to be a lifelong challenge from a humanity perspective for us all. It's not Those that haven't conquered. Um, I haven't met that person yet. So It's great. It's a lot of wisdom in there. I appreciate that We're speaking to a lot of the things that I'm personally working on and what I see with a lot of clients Authenticity showing up being present how much we're on our phone, but pretending like we're listening that's a big thing in my house because unfortunately I Get sucked into my phone and people talk to me my girlfriend the kids and I'm like, you know, I'm not even present So very very resonant very wise These are cell phones have become You know Absolutely. I mean like we can't how do we live with all them today? But Man, it is a hurdle. It's a hurdle for um for that true human connection And I I mean like and I don't think it gets easier, right? So No, and I am so grateful. We didn't have them growing up I mean, I was born in 1975 and we had none of this none of it And if we did I most certainly would still be apologizing as an adult for the things that said as a kid And I am sure I would have been addicted and all the, you know, negative things that come with the phone Like you're a young developing mind like what like I can speak from a young man or boy's perspective But I didn't leave the house. I mean like my brain would have been so like I would have never played sports I'd have never been outside and Yeah, I agree. Uh, you know I was my daughter and I were talking about like this was when during high school they missed a call Then we'll go supposed to go somewhere and I was like, you know when we were growing up if there was a party And we were waiting for it You know to find out where it was or whatever whatever the case Um, and if you missed that phone call You weren't going to the party It was it was if you missed a phone call and your phone number had nine's and zero's in it because of that rotary You weren't getting invited to the party And so there is like uh, uh, really this Sense of always missing out and always connected that Um, yeah, I there it there on the weekend like on saturday's Um, I put my phone down and I tried to do all my things around the house or outside or whatever it is Um, without it. So of course, I bought the i- i watched so now I don't need that phone. Yeah, you don't need the phone I'm cheating, but it's difficult I always laugh that When we didn't have the cell phones, we still didn't lose each other Right, it was like i'll meet you at the telephone booth that noon And if you're not there at noon, i'll come back at 1215 or 12th Like there was always like these redundancy plans and yeah, we always found each other But yet like, you know, you and I could be back to back and be like, hey, where where are you? I can't find you. Oh, there you are right behind me. Yeah, I got my kids do it all the time They'll be in it, you know, they'll be looking for somebody else for me. Are you here yet? I'm right here I see you And yeah, I mean like we didn't We had a great time I mean, we didn't miss be like said, you know, um, we'll be there at noon You're there and you were there and we're gonna who's gonna pick us up way like and guess what? If you were an hour late, you missed I don't be late Be on time pick the phone up and and the other thing is like Nobody even caught toxin. They'd like text. It's like I look at my cell phone bill with my daughters Because of course, you know, that's the I guess that's the last thing that hangs on is the cell phone bills I thought of its marriage. She's like, why would I get off your bill? I wouldn't if I was you either We so like there's um, you know, I look at our phone calls compared to Texas I mean, it's like 201 to text message It's it's it's white and this is how they communicate with their friends and like I don't like I don't know. I mean, I don't remember I remember having to ask a girl to the movies or go you know ask girl out you had to like literally walk up to her and say Do you want to you want to go out tonight? Like you know, and you know now you can text and be casting over through text pretty easy I mean, he was stumbling dummy Yeah, you know manage through it. Yes. Uh, just unlocked another reason why with thicker skins rejection, yes No So I want to I want to brag on your business a little bit Um And I do appreciate where we've been this is the type of conversation that I find very interesting as the human I am But I do want to brag on your business a little bit So just just as a quick little story the first time you and I were supposed to speak We had a reschedule because you were flying to Arizona And you've got growth happen in there I'd love to hear a little bit more about it. And when I'm really specific. I should let me rephrase what i'm particularly interested in is The conversations because I'm sure it was plural on how You and the founders and your management team How did you come to the conclusion of expanding down to Arizona? And I'd love to hear a little bit about the growth Yeah, thank you. Um, so you know, we look at um first we look at the craft beer world as you know as as won't like the industry Right and and the headwinds that we're facing. I'm you know We talked briefly about the these you know macroeconomics and this turbulence in that space that is creating some significant headwinds and And so we looked at denver and we see where denver is from a From a trajectory and craft beer, right? I mean, this is the epicenter of craft beer It just is right and I I can you can like there are some other spots that I think have the same density of breweries, but not like denver and so we are so We're I mean fortunate to have the relationship we have with denver and denver people. It is it has been something that has um Truly been eye-opening to me when I moved here like just just this pure relationship with the brands with this industry and with craft beer and So we have growth opportunity here in denver and outside denver that we're obviously exploring and capturing now But we also look at the craft beer world organically and and it's in its entirety and For markets that we believe we can expand into and so when we did our research in like phoenix Or texas or you know trying to stay as regional as possible Um phoenix really stood out as one of the largest growing markets in the country, right from just pure population And and phoenix itself is going through this um growth cycle that is you know as used there the medical centers there now so it's become really and An epi center not just for that But for our music and entertainment and what we're going is on roosevelt roe, which is the spot, right And so, you know, we did this we did a planning about a year and a half ago. We spent a day It was myself Doug our cfo and our two founders trolley and patrick and we mapped out five years and we said what does this look like in five years? and And I and I like to use the word contrarian because that's what a way that's what it is. Uh, you know, there's a lot of craft beer um Companies that are struggling right that are not opening up new units that are staying still, right? And in my business philosophy has always been when you stay still You go backwards because you start to lose market share, right? And and so I I have this like this feeling of contrarian being contrarian And so we built out this five-year plan and the five-year plan was where we're gonna build when we're gonna build What's the model we're gonna build? Is it going to be just a you know a taproom with beer? Is it going to be a taproom with um A brew house and it was going to be a taproom brew house and food. Is it going to have no brew house? And we managed through all that and about the day a day and a half just from a high level um planning process And then we and then we decided to um done what we did is we went research real estate, right? Went and research markets. So where the markets are where the trade area the best trade areas are Right and then really isolate in a spot like saying where this is the best trade area in Arizona if this the best market is Phoenix and our best trade area is you know Roosevelt wrote the call to row area and downtown Where do we where do we go to main on main and where do we find the best location? And so as we went through this process phoenix was a natural standout because as we believe the trajectory is here um with denver Uh, we believe it's about four years five years behind us in denver Um, just just because of the growth of the city right the sheer amount of people that are moving there Um, and it's just one of those things. It's an emerging market for us. And so you know, we made that decision um about a year ago a year and two months ago and we we're down and um, there's artistic artsy music driven area called roosevelt wrote and it is It reminds it reminds you so ho, you know before so ho became so ho right just kind of edgy Uh tons of music great food. Um, you know street art everywhere. Um, and it is um You know an emerging market that we believe we can capture in and so We made that decision based off of data, right? But also with the idea that we we understand that Continuing to grow allows us At the moment to have the best success as we go through these headwinds because it's it's not a denver bierko thing It's not a it's not a um denver thing Colorado it is a A national kind of headwinds that the crap be a world really beer and wine Are facing right? I mean we I mean with the legalization of cannabis, right that eats into our core customers, right? younger generations, you know I don't drink as much as they're not standing there by the phone booth waiting for your buddy and Going going to get some beer and drinking a field, right? They are, you know, they're doing less of that and for whatever reason and then along with the cannabis, right? I think there's um, there's a gap A couple of other things we're seeing like in denver here Um craft beers is unique stuff, right? It's a specialized. It's a specialized customer and Before I started drinking craft beer, you would tell me about an IPA and I'd be like, okay Yeah, well my favorite says on and I was like is that a movie? You know and you know did until I learned both, you know years ago about craft beer That's I think general was the consensus for people that were everyday beer drinkers And so it's a niche and you know in denver or in Colorado We've moved from um the we moved to the Big boxes the chains like the wallmarks to Kroger's being able to sell beer and wine in some hard liquor And that's had a dramatic effect on the beer world, right? Because It's about convenience, right? It becomes this dynamic of convenience where if you're if you're grocery shopping And you there's beer there, right? You're going to say I'll just grab it here instead of making a second stop, right? And and we're seeing a dramatic drop in independent um liquor stores closing I mean it's been pretty significant and because of that level of convenience When you go to a merchant at one of those big boxes, they are not you know, they're less concerned about carrying, you know Three different IPAs and if it's a west coast or if it's a hazy, right? They're less concerned about that. They look down and say this moves faster than this one I've got to make one order And i'm going to shelve it this way And it becomes a numbers game for them much less than a much less so than a craft And so the craft beer world has has That's part of some of the headwinds that we're facing, especially you're in dumber And so we we didn't see that we don't see that as much as a hurdle because they're already the beer world's already rooted And it has been rooted and changed stores for years in phoenix And so with all that phoenix became this Well, we felt our best opportunity and also It gives us the opportunity to really test our brand right or not just our brand because it's going to be under a different name But it's it It allows us to test can we actually be regional, right? We've got we've got Denver surrounded I mean we do and And and we our plans that go further out and maybe up towards the mountains and things like that And then and and that will be that will be a test to right to see if we can perform out there Um, but this is a big test right if if this works for us in phoenix We realize that we can be a regional brand And and and that's important for a growing company or want a company that wants to grow Because again, I think we have these headwinds and the stronger we are on the on the on the way out of these headwinds This I think the better positions will be for the future and in sustainability So yeah, we're we're pretty excited about it. We're gonna open this year. So it's um, it's When I when I when I say it is, um, you know, it's interesting, you know, you spend a year year and three months You know through this whole process but in the beginning you're negotiating leases, you know, you're finding contractors GCs and everybody's happy and everything's going great and you know, you can start going through the process And then the last like 120 days is like a full sprint Right because we don't I get a target now to my GC. This is our target and and we've got this great Contractor and phoenix called in the name of the company. It's called sigma construction and they are just uh They're almost as challenged as we are as far as like being excited about kid and deadlines And so you can't ask for a better partnership And so, um, we are planning on opening this year. We are going to open this year. Um, and Let me rephrase that and we are, um, and we're going to look to see how this is Successful and then whether or not um How successful it is be how quickly we continue to expand in phoenix, but the idea is not to just have one unit We could fill another hour or two easily. I'm sure And unfortunately, we're at the end of our time Um, before we say goodbye, what is what's the name of the brewery in Arizona? It's going to be formation brewery formation brewery. Yeah, okay And you had mentioned earlier that with Uh, the founders and your cfo You discuss what the brew was going to be a tap room only a brewery food. What did you ultimate decide on? We went for the full monty and this is heaven This is this space is 10,000 square foot Um, it is two floors. Um, and it's going to have a 10 barrel brew house in a brew system in it Um, we have, you know serving tanks so people can actually see the tanks Um, and it's going to be a full restaurant Along with it and a very unique design for us and as we generally have um Created, uh tap rooms with huge outdoor spaces and patios which people love um We've we've approached it So I guess we approached it with a similar perspective But with a different design, um approach where we're actually Making the front of this large building um Open up in a way where it feels like half the um Inside is is going to be the patio along with the patio that we have out there And we're doing that for multiple reasons, right because we want to stay busy the summer there And I was there two weeks ago was 110. So, um, we get a test of challenge Um, but the design is going to be unique for us and um, yeah, we're excited to see her open in this time. Awesome. Awesome Well, thank you for being here. I appreciate the time Uh, I love your philosophy about being authentic Being present being fearless I especially appreciate what we're talking about with work-life balance And there are others Jeff Bezos is one who doesn't believe in the whole concept and it's just all an integration So Not that because bezo said it, but I appreciate what you're saying there there's some truism in there And uh, you're a fun guy to talk to I appreciate the time Now you're great too, Darren. It's great talking to you. All right. Thank you. Even though you're unique. He's fun [LAUGHTER] Arvin, take care.
