[MUSIC] >> Main morning, Joe Sports said 5'9" and his friend, Ben, and his friend, Gunning. So you may have noticed that the Sheldon Keith, he weathered the storm this season when the mothers were circling. >> Yeah, the buzzard named Ben. No, we were both, we were both. >> I'm not fair at all. There were plenty of people on this very radio station. And listen, I'll revisit my take, which remains true at the time. Like if you were not gonna do much of the deadline, which turns out it didn't. >> Yeah. >> If you were in danger of making the playoffs or thought that you needed a boost, the best way to do that would be firing the head coach that being said, thought he'd done a good job. Still think he's done a good job. >> You weren't a buzzard circling. You were just texting several buzzards like, hey, it might want to monitor the situation here. And I was of the same opinion that it would have given them a dead cap bounce. I don't know how real it would have been. I'm happy they didn't go that route because I don't need to really get this all over again. But I didn't want them hiring a coach cuz he was there. If they make a coaching change, I wanted to be an expanded search with a pretty clear candidate in mind. I'm not saying I have that candidate, I'm just saying, well, I mean, I do. But I think that's the way it would need to go. >> So they don't have that guy anymore, because it looks like Patrick Waugh is in there for the duration. >> Mm-hm. >> As the- >> That's not the guy I was hinting at. >> Well, but boy, scoreboard. The New York Islanders have won six consecutive and are now tied on points with the Detroit Red Wings. But because they have a game in hand, they have actually moved themselves into a postseason spot. In the second wild card position in the Eastern Conference, and maybe usurping of the Flyers for third in the Metro is the next stepping stone for them cuz they have two games in hand on the Flyers and they're only two points back. Man, the further along we get a very uninspiring Islanders team and there's one thing that is pretty notable about the before Islanders and the now Islanders. And it's the all time great Montreal, Canadian goaltender Patrick Waugh, who's standing behind the bench and I mean, is it too late for him to get into the Jack Adams conversation? >> I've already given it to Tortorilla after this weekend, so in my mind's eye, it is. >> It's a weird Jack Adams year and yeah, it is too late. >> Pomerase is gonna get it, I guess. >> Yeah, you know. >> Talk it. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it just feels, I think Maurice is the betting favorite. >> The Jack Adams is like the cup and that we've handed it out to about six different teams this year. >> Well, Maurice hasn't ever won it before, I think it's a big deal, right? >> That will help a lot with him, like it's a little bit, we know how, we know how awards go in the NHL. You gotta kind of be in the conversation a bunch before you get it. Hello, Norris Trophy. We do that all the time with that award. So yeah, I think the Patrick Wav at all, I feel like I was on record about this, that if you were gonna make a change, that was the guy that was out there. He had the charisma, he had the rings he could slam on the table, he's won a bit in this league as a coach before, made all the sense. And if you wanna talk about a team that did absolutely nothing at the deadline, the avenders are the test case for that. So they are running the scenario you bandied about there right now and seeing the fruits of it with Patrick Wav. >> Who was the guy you were thinking of? >> Well, it wasn't gonna happen in season, I don't even know if they're allowed to, it's just like, if the Leafs said they had to make a coaching change or they decided that it'd be, I think Joel Quenville is the like difference maker coach, just is that in the cards, is that even doable right now, probably not. And I have, I feel like, again, I'll just double down on this, feel like I have been one of Sheldon Keefe's bigger defenders in this market. I think if, I think if there wasn't so much noise around the team, there would be plenty of years where he could make an argument to have him in the Jack Adams conversation because his job is always so hard because it's coaching in Toronto and everything he does gets picked through with a fine tooth comb and I think he's handled himself really, really well in this time. Let's not say he's perfect, not say I don't have questions about some of the things he does, but I think he has done a really nice job with this team and his tenure here. >> Well, yeah. And the points percentage since he's been the head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs during the regular season, everything that's been great about the Toronto Maple Leafs over the last near decade has been during the regular season, it's unimpeachable. >> Yep. >> He's been real, real good since the first day he stepped behind the Toronto Maple Leafs bench and now has a postseason series victory to add to his resume, perhaps more to come this spring. Time now for our insider, brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus.com. Today's insider, Red Olavwa of TVA Sports. How's it going, Ren? >> I'm pretty good. Thanks for having me this morning, guys. >> Yeah, thanks for doing it. So yeah, let's look back at the deadline before we look ahead. The Leafs made a couple of depth moves. >> Yeah. >> I think we could have anticipated a couple of defencemen and a depth forward. Were they in on anything big to your mind's eye? Like was there the possibility of something more than that before 3 o'clock on Friday? >> Well, I think it was well known that the kick tires for David Savard and, you know, the Montreal Canadiens were really asking for a first rounder or the equivalent of a first rounder. So I think the Maple Leafs looked at David as a really good defenceman, but they were not ready to overpay, which is totally normal. When you look at the number of draft picks that they have, I think you need to put that check at the same time, you know, the future. So I think they made the right decision right there. I think for the Montreal Canadiens, really it was more a question of we don't want to trade David Savard. So it's like, let's say a house at $700,000, you put it at a million if there's a guy full enough to take it at a million, well, you're going to sell your house. So that's a little bit the way the Canadiens approach the situation with David Savard. You know, I look at Mike Madison as a defenceman that could have helped the Toronto Maple Leafs. I don't think that there was discussion really on it, but I think it would have been fun if they had discussion regarding, you know, a guy like Mike Madison, just the way he played on Saturday night, I can imagine him playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs, he would have bring another dimension offensively to the Leafs, but anyhow, I mean, it is what it is. I don't think, you know, they were on major trades involving major trades. You look at the Leafs, everyone is saying, well, they're not as good as the Rangers or, you know, the Panthers of this world or the Bruins. But this is a group that's been playing together for a long time. And if you look at the big picture, if you look at the Washington Capitals, they want to stand like up with their court group, they made some, a few trades here and there. But, you know, the players that won that cup, they were with the, you know, the Capitals for a long time. And if you look at the Toronto Maple Leafs, I'm not saying that they could be the Capitals of this year, but it's not a slam dunk, that they're going to be out in the first round because they're playing a Boston or, you know, the Panthers. You never know what's going to happen and you need to keep an open mind because I'm telling you remember when Pittsburgh played the Capitals a few years ago in the playoffs, first game, it was as usual, the State Pittsburgh Penguins won each of these versus the Capitals and, and at the end, the Capitals won that playoff series and will understand like up after that. So I think you need to keep an open mind when you look at playoff hockey. Yeah, it's so funny when you mentioned the Capitals, right? I do think that's where everyone's kind of turned their eyes of, okay, they eventually got theirs. Yeah, yeah, in year, in year 14 of Washington in their, of Michigan existence. So the Leafs just have to live another whole lifetime of the Matthews era of what they've lived now. And then they'll be knocking on the door. It like, I agree with you. I think that you always have to keep that in mind when you have great players. It's generally speaking the rule in this league, right? Everybody, every great guy for the most part gets theirs and you, you have to bet on, on elite talent. You know, you mentioned the, the talks the Leafs had with, with some are there obviously. Yeah, even Mathison, if they could have got him just to have taken that board, that goal off the board on Saturday, it would have been nice alone. But it's always interesting when there's these rivals that are, that are dealing with each other. And I wonder how much it changes when there is a new GM now, not everything has changed with the Leafs. Shanahan is still in the mix there, but just how is it when there's, you know, whether it's a team rivalry, like you see with the Leafs and Canadians or, you know, we saw this a little bit this year with the Leafs in flames and Conroy maybe being a little hesitant to deal with tri-living on his first big deals. How much does that play a part, not just a deadline time, but anytime you're talking trades. That's a great question. If you look at the history, I mean, the Maple Leafs and the Ottawa Senators, I mean, they were trading in the last few years for, forever. It looks like, you know, they, they were always dancing with each other, but, but if you look at, you know, the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Canadians, the last time was, was Thomas Placonic. Right? That's, that's already like, what's six, seven years ago? Yeah. So it's, it's been a while. Um, and if you look at the Canadians with the, the Boston Bruins, it's Eric Wan, a wine rich in 2001. That's the, that's the last trade between the Canadians and the Bruins. Can you imagine that? Wow. And, and, and, and I don't remember a trade between the Canadians and the Ottawa Senators, by the way. So yes, it's part of a, of, of the equation. I, I think it's part of reality, um, because you don't want to make, uh, the other team of savor. And, and, but I think you need to make a fair trade. I think that that can, that trade can be possible, but you want to make sure that you're going to be generous, uh, if, if you like, let's support a, for the sake of it. Let's say, um, David Savard, because he was involved in trade rumors, um, well, giving a first from pick, I think would have been an extra value for David Savard. But that's, that's when I, why I'm talking about generosity here. You need to make sure that the other team's not going to get screwed. So I'll reform my language, but that's the reality of it, uh, and when it's with the, uh, a team from another division, I think you can, you can do whatever you want. Uh, you know, you're trying to, to win that rate. So, so I don't know, I mean, it's, I think it's, it's really, really tough for GM's to, to make trades when you're in the same division. Uh, that's why I just hope that one day we won't have divisions anymore. And that will have, uh, you know, 32 teams are going to battle for, uh, 16 spots for the playoffs. And we don't care if you're a Western conference or Eastern conference. I mean, just let's go, let's, let's battle each other every night. It's going to be a four point game and, and let's try to be in the playoff side. I think that in, in this era, even, and I talked about that to Sydney, who I was a few months ago, he still thinks that travel is an issue. I don't believe. You can, you can put a schedule that's going to help everyone and, and, you know, get rid of division and conference and make, make sure that all the best teams are in the playoffs. And I don't, and one's going to play versus 16, uh, I don't like the format actually. I think we're in 2024 needs to change, to be honest with you. Just, uh, you know, you've been doing this a long time, Ren. I, I don't mean to tell you how to do it, but next time you're going to make a case for an argument, don't start with Sydney Crosby disagrees with me. That's just, if you want to win people over, I don't know that you say like, Crosby thinks the opposite. Well, well, Sydney doesn't like the format right now, right? Sydney wants the format to change too, but he wants to, he wanted to steam the conference. So one versus eight. So, and, and I think he's totally right. You need to make that change of format actually right now. I mean, it's, it doesn't make sense. I'm sorry to say it doesn't make sense at all. Okay. And I'm pretty sure that the league's going to have another vision and it's okay. But when a guy like Sydney Crosby is saying, well, no, we need to play one versus eight. I think you need to listen to him. There's, it brings value to the season, right? More value to the season, I should say, um, and one versus 16 in my mind will bring even more value to the season, but, but if people don't agree with me, like Sydney, I, I, you know, I don't, I don't mind. I, I have my own opinion, but Sydney Crosby, I'm going to respect that whatever Sydney is saying for the rest of my life, that's for sure. Yeah. And me too. Yeah. Just for the record. And, and Kyle do this as well. Uh, and it feels like it, it maybe informs the reason as to why they didn't get a bunch of first round picks for Jake Genssel, right? We got some roster players, uh, and some, some prospects and boy, it does feel like everybody's on the same page here that it feels like Sydney Crosby's just going to re up, uh, immediately following July one. Do you think there's any possibility that a conversation occurs either from him to the penguins or the penguins to him that hey, like how, how do you want this to play out? Like is there a possibility of a separation this summer? I don't know, that's because there was one year left, right? If I'm not mistaken. Yeah. Yep. Um, no, I don't think this summer could happen, but, but, you know, look at the way the team is responding right now to what the, the decision that were made, they don't have emotions anymore. They, that's a team with no, they, they have no life. Um, and you know, there was some trade rumors with, uh, Genssel for a while, probably during the last month, but they, they kept going at it. Um, you know, they, they kept playing, they kept pushing. Um, they, they played with emotion, uh, but since, since it was obvious that Genssel would be traded, uh, it's a totally different team and that's the dressing room talking here. I, I mean, it's, I've never seen the Pittsburgh playing going, playing like that with Sydney Crosby in the lineup with Gino Malkin, the lineup with Chris Latang in the lineup. I mean, it's, uh, and I understand this is a team in Pittsburgh that, you know, we're in Canada, we're, we're focusing on the, you know, the Maple Leafs, the Canadians or whatever, but, but at the end of the day, uh, if hockey was big in the US, that will be, uh, you know, the, the, the, on sports center, that will be the first thing to out there. The way the team is playing since Genssel is out and no one's speaking or talking about it right now, which in my mind, it's mind boggling. What's going on in Pittsburgh is, uh, is, uh, we need to, you know, put a little more attention to what's going on there. Um, and I'm not, uh, it's tough for me to judge what's next, to be honest with you. I can say I, I envision Sydney Crawls be finishing his career with the Pittsburgh Penguins, but at the same time, I don't envision, uh, Sydney Crawls be playing a meaningless games. So here's your answer. I, you know, you're asking me, is there a chance that Sydney Crawls be going to play one day in, in another uniform, the way it's going right now? My answer to this is, is a crystal, crystal clear, yes, but, but, but what, what's next? I don't know what's next. I don't know what Kyle Lubas is going to promise to Sydney Crawls be or the rest of, uh, you know, the core group of that team, but, but at the end, I'm looking at the situation as of right now, uh, and, and, and it scares me, it scares me because I don't like what's going on right now. So we'll see what's going to happen. There's a lot of time, a lot of water under the bridge. Uh, oh, hopefully everyone's going to take, you know, uh, it's going to take some, some time off just to think about what's next and what's best for everyone. But, but one thing for sure, I, I, I don't see Sydney Crawls be, uh, playing 14. That's, that's going to play meaningless games for the rest of his career. I don't, I don't see it. Yeah, I don't, I don't either. The thing I've been thinking back a lot to with all the conversations, because I'm, I'm sure you saw his comments after the six, nothing lost to, to the Capitol say, I don't know, go ask them what they think is, you know, we had a lot of these conversations when the Oilers were struggling and they bring in McDavid's junior coach and his former agent is now a top, the organization there is how much did these guys want to be, one, want to be involved in the decision making of, should I go trade for Eric Carlson? Should I get Michael Bunting for Jake Genssel? Well, they're involved. Well, that's, that's what it's going to get at is they want to be, I imagine they want to be involved, but they also don't want to be seen to, because we've seen this go the other way in other sports where, oh, GM LeBron and he controls everything. I don't think Sydney Crosby wants that perception of him either. And you know, we think of Crosby as just a guy who cares about hockey and winning. And that's what he cares about 99.9% of the time. But of course he also cares about how he is perceived. Like how much say do you think one, he has in that org and two, how much he wants to have versus him just saying, well, I want you guys to do your jobs well. And I don't want to have to think about this. Well, you know what, in a, in the Eric Carlson situation, even Crystal Tang was involved. I mean, rightly so. And Eric Carlson had a conversation with Crystal Tang before the trade happened to see if everything was okay for everyone and the green light was given. But, but I don't think Eric Carlson is the big issue here. You need to look at, you know, the Pittsburgh penguins, what they're doing. You let go die like Jake Gansal. I don't know if you hear what the Sydney Crosby said about Jake Gansal after that trade. But he said it was a privilege to play with a guy like him. That's coming from Sydney's Crosby's mouth. Right. So I. That'd be the first line of my obituary, by the way. Not coming soon. Oh, yeah, I hold it. Anyway, we're all big. But that being said, you have the Pittsburgh penguins of this world, and you have the Golden Knights. And the star players are looking at the Golden Knights right now around the league and say, Hey, how come we don't have this? I mean, Sydney Crosby does, like, I don't know this respect. I don't want to talk to him for him, I should say, but they don't want to win games. They don't care about this first wrong thing. Yeah. Second wrong pick. They don't care. But they want to win games now. They want to win that Stanley Cup now, they want to battle for it now. So they're looking at the Golden Knights right now, and they're kind of jealous. They're looking at them. Why? How is this possible? Why? How are they doing this? Why we don't? Why we can't? Why we're not the Golden Knights? We shouldn't. We should have been the Golden Knights, but they're not because they were, quote, unquote, more careful in a way. But I think that a lot of players are asking themselves, I want to play with a team that's going to battle for Stanley Cup every year, especially the older guys, like Sydney. So we'll see. But I think that Kyle Dubas will have to make a big decision this summer, and that's going to be part of a conversation with Sydney Crosby, Chris Latang, Geno Malkin, and Eric Carlson, because he needs to tell them exactly what's the plan, not for the next five years. For next season. And that's going to be an important discussion because after that discussion, these players need to make a decision about, am I staying here? Am I going to accept what's coming? It could be positive, could be negative, but they have a decision to make. Do I want to be part of it? Yes or no? And if the answer is yes, perfect for the penguins. They're going to keep the court room and we'll see what's going to happen. But if the answer is no, well, more big decisions are coming, that's for sure. Oh, yeah. That would make for a very interesting off season. No question about it. Ren, always appreciate the time. It's been too long since our last chat. Thanks for doing this. We will have you back. We will have you back before the NFL draft because we got to get into your bears. But that's for another day. I saw what this theater is made this morning. Yeah. Yeah. Russ. Yeah. That was a rough weekend. And I'm pretty sure for that management in Pittsburgh. Yes. Yeah. I don't know what they were drinking, but thanks, Ren. See ya. Have a good one, guys. Take care. All right. I'm going to talk about the TVA sports. He was our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, northlexus.com. So the Russell Wilson to the Steelers thing. Amazing. My favorite tweet was, you know, trying to figure out his next catchphrase coming off of Let's Ride and Denver. God. Let's weld. Go on. Let's weld. Bring back Hinds catch up. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. It's not Hindsfield anymore. I think I'm very upset about that. I remember. Yeah. Looks like I get. I love towels. That's good. I don't know. Yeah. I'm telling you. I don't know. Like who knows what it can be. Yeah. Okay. Maybe honestly, if he's funny, which he's not like he's like a classic, like, I am funny. I have a joke. I recite guy, but not actually funny. If he is funny, he asked him to shoot the exact same video. Steve is country. Yeah. Let's ride. No, it's not. Yeah. Let's ride. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He does. He doesn't think Sidney Crosby wants to lose for the rest of his career. I'm shocked by that. So I mean, if that's the decision, it is, despite there being one more year left on the deal, it has to be this off season, unless he's just leaving the penguins holding the bag. But if that's happening and he's not signing an extension, then the penguins have to say, well, then we have to explore moving. Like, if you're going to move your own volition, which is your own that's well within your right to do that. We explore moving you and maybe you have a Matt Sundine situation where he says, yeah, thanks, but no thanks. Yeah, that was my worry. Okay, maybe. But that's an interesting spot to put an organization in. I will say that... So Shockey is a full-known move class. Yes. No, obviously. He controls his destiny. If you're going to take the morsels of information that we have and against trade, not even resulting in one first round pick, unless the hurricanes go to the Stanley Cup final, then you have to take with that the belief that at least Kyle Dubas has that, yeah, we're not totally turning this thing over here, that we do, we're taking on the roster players because we're just trying to get younger and we're going to try and feel yet another competitive squad next season. So I don't know if that conversation has already been explicitly had and maybe things change after the Penguins just keep losing every game's six nothing, the rest of the regular season. But Kyle Dubas must feel pretty comfortable that, yeah, the thing that most people are reporting that another three-year extension or something is coming on July 1st, that yes, that is in fact the future of this organization. I don't think, you know, Kyle Dubas didn't like going, we believe, going to Britain and Shanahan every time there was a big asset on the table and saying, I'd like to do this. I'm sure he didn't sign up for the Pittsburgh job to go run everything by Sidney Crosby. But like Ren said, do you think sitting Crosby didn't know the Eric Carlson trade was coming? Do you not think he had some discussions about a broad strokes of what a Jake Gunsell? You don't think Kyle Dubas, look, I'm not going to sit here and say it was the best trade of all time. I'm not, don't take that as defending it. But you don't think he could have got, if what he wanted was first round picks out of it, you don't think he could have got a guaranteed one for the best available rental player? I'm pretty sure he could have done that. And hey, Sarah World, we're not in this year's draft apparently, but where you flip multiple assets into players that can help you, sure, you could have gone that route. But I think this, and it's a black box. We'll never know. Sidney Crosby is not going to give us a press conference with his in-depth feelings about Kyle Dubas and how everything's going there. But this guy, he didn't get hired three years ago and the plan's gone off-kilter. It's not been a calendar year yet that he's had the job. I don't think there's anything that he's done that he did not talk explicitly about when he was interviewing for the job. So again, don't take this as me saying it's been some master plan that's worked out well. It has not. But to think that Sidney Crosby is sitting there going, "How did it get this way?" I think he believes he is enough to buoy a team to winning, but I don't think he's sitting there disgusted by Kyle Dubas's decisions either. You know, it's funny. We talk about Brad for Living and the job that he's done building this team and we always add the caveat. Well, he was given kind of a rough runway to start the season because he was hired so late in the process. Like he had to just get his feet wet and he had these big organizational questions to answer most notably was the Austin Matthews extension and then one pending for William Kneelander that he got done during the middle of the season and, you know, he took these one-year flyers on, "Okay, some guys that didn't work out so well, but some guys that have worked out so well." But they weren't like franchise-defining moves. Kyle Dubas was hired in Pittsburgh at the same time and he was like, "Yeah, give me like a hundred years and a hundred million dollars per year of Eric Carlson setting up this franchise for the rest of Sidney Crosby's career. Either we're going to sink or swim with this move." I also was hired late in the process. I'm just getting to know this organization. I'm going to make the move that will define my penguins' legacy one way or another right out of the gates. I don't think this is exactly what happened, but it really does feel like, "Ah, finally out from under that thumb, I could swing free and clear, I could do whatever I want." And man, I bet he'd have a do-over on that one. I'm not even going to sit here and say, "Carlson's part of the problem." Yeah, I am. Well, did we learn? The power play stinks. Did we learn nothing from the, and I don't, I am not one that thought the Dubas era went so terribly, but there were certainly lessons to be learned and the idea, again, coming from somebody who is one of his staunches defenders or at least has been in this market to say that you're going to leave here where you were cast-strapped with elite talent. Yes, but cast-strapped because of it and say your first move is to double down on being cast-strapped again. It's wild. I can't believe it happened. Yeah, that part is still can't believe it. The gunsel, I have no problem with it. I don't know if everyone kills them for bunting me, but the gunsel, I have no problem with that trade. But to Carlson won. My goodness. Yeah, something else. Anyways. That's... Okay. But Joey Votto, in name only right now, is Toronto Bluejay. We'll see if he gets to play at the major league level. We'll talk to another fixture in Canadian baseball. Joe Siddle next, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. The best Bluejay show out there, period. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm on a minor league contract, I'm in major league camp, I'm what's called a non-roster invite. I'm not on the major league roster, and so, as I work and prep every single day, not only is that my attitude, but that's the reality of this scenario. The idea that I'm going to come in and presume anything is a disconnect from, again, reality, but mostly just what I'm about. I want to work, and I want to compete, and I want to fit in, and I want to get along with guys. I want to be liked, and I want to represent myself, my family, and my country well, and this is the perfect opportunity. I may never play a game for the Toronto Bluejay's. I may never wear a major uniform again, but this is my opportunity to give it a shot. I believe in myself, but I'm only one part of the equation. Good morning, Joe, Sportsnet 500 and Ben and his friend Gunning, so we don't know when exactly Joey Votto will participate in a great fruit league game for the Toronto Bluejay's. We do know that Bluejay's will play a great fruit league action this afternoon against the Tampa Bay Rays and Port Charlotte on Sportsnet at 105. Mitch White throwing his gas 100 miles an hour. Mitch White throws now, and he's going to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. He will start for the Bluejay's this afternoon. Let's talk to Joe Sittle, a Bluejay central, getting his tan on in Florida. How's the tan coming along, Joe? You can get a tan when you're in a broadcast booth or it's kind of shady up there. But it's been good. So far so good. It's been raining. It's a great time of year. It is. It is. That's only like two or three hours a day, but still plenty of time to get a good base for that tan. Yeah. All right. So this Joey Votto thing obviously is big news. Not a lot of like non rosters, spring training, invitees on minor league deals that make the type of waves that signing Joey Votto to that will. What was your initial understanding and reaction to it and in the subsequent days that you've heard from him and the organization? What have you made of it? Well, very, you know, initially very surprised. I was like, wow, Joey Votto of Bluejay, probably like most people because he was still out there and at his age and it's men's repast, you don't know if he was still thinking of playing. We'd heard he'd been working out and then we hear later on, I think, I hadn't reported yesterday that he actually contacted the Bluejay says, hey, can I try out? But his interview yesterday, I'm sure you guys saw lots of clips a bit so entertaining. He is so articulate. He thought full in his answers. And what I took away most from it is just how humble he was. I mean, he said, I'm a minor leaker. I'm trying out right here. And when somebody questioned him that he said, well, no, I signed a minor league contract and I'm invited to major league camp trying to make this team. And then of course, he went on into his whole past and his youth and being a Bluejay's fan. It was a lot of fun listening to him and having a chat with him. And I'll probably get to see him at the complex this morning swing about for the first time. So that's what I'm looking forward to. Yeah, it'll be, it'll be exciting. I'm sure a lot of people are looking forward to to see in that just what exactly it looks like, you know, before we get too much into the nuts and bolts of what he can be, how much of a shot he's going to have here, what does it do to camp to have an injection of life into it this kind of deep into it, you know, training camp is fun and so many different people have different goals there. But what does it do to have a kind of new person in the mix from a team perspective, from your perspective down there of just kind of injecting some new life into a camp that can can feel like a bit of a slog at times, I'm sure. Well, I'm sure if you're a Bluejay's player, if I were a Bluejay's player right now, probably a little surprising, like I said, we all just were, but I don't know that this team needs much more, guys, you know, the way the last couple of off seasons or the last couple of post seasons have gone, you could feel the, I don't want to use the word edge. It's a very negative connotation, but that sort of thing that not to say some guys are short with their answers, they, I think they have a newfound focus and not that anybody needs a new focus, but it's, again, the results. The way things have gone down the last two years and we've heard the word expectations and we've heard both quote early on and I get all that and I think that's probably the way this team is a little chip on their shoulders right now saying, okay, count us all out and we're just going to go about our business. Now, that's what they did last year, went about the business and it just didn't end very well. And I think a lot of that as we know had a lot to do with this lineup that a year ago, if I was on with you guys, I don't think I would have thought this was going to be a mid-link lineup in 2023. So I was as shocked as anyone to see the regression from some of the hitters. I'm sure to a hitter, they all think they'll be back, but we have to see it and it's not getting any easier in the AEL East as we know, but we've talked at length about the guys that need to pick it up because I'm a big believer. Your best players need to be your best players and oftentimes those guys are at the top half of your lineup. Yeah. And it's yet to be determined whether Joey Votto will be part of that solution, you know, it'll be interesting to hear from Daniel Vogelbach what he thought of that signing and where that puts him in the packing order and it did, I mean, going back to the Votto comments from the weekend, it feels like he's under the impression or at least open to the idea of starting the season in Buffalo and working his way up to the Major League roster if he's capable of doing that, which maybe gives Daniel Vogelbach a reprieve. Maybe Daniel Vogelbach was never going to make this team. I did feel like he was going to play the Spencer Horwitz role and Spencer Horwitz was going to be the optionable guy, left-handed hitting pinch hit depth at the minor leagues. How do you think the roster actually shakes down with now the addition of Joey Votto? Well, I see it the way you just described, you know, we all liked what we see in Spencer Horwitz, but he's the young guy that can still hone his skills in triple A. I love the fact that you've got a guy, this is before Joey came, but the fact that you've got a guy like Vogelbach that doesn't say he does one thing, but it's a power threat left-handed off the bench and this team just hasn't had that and that's kind of big, I think, ladenball games and whether it's for a kinder full effort or an Espinal or a Clemente, whoever's around to pinch it to provide that threat, I think, is very needed for this team because we know that that lap last year, the power. So I like that and Vogelbach's done his thing, a couple of home runs, look good in that regard. With Joey here now, to me it's just adding another potential, that and as we know in spring training, a lot can happen over the next two and a half weeks here before opening the day. Maybe somebody does get hurt. As you said, if Joey's open to go into the minor leagues, you're finishing getting ready, down in Florida or whoever that works out, you're adding a bat that has the potential to help you win baseball games. Those guys go, his track record's amazing. It's just that he's 40 years old and we all know that that plays a game on your production and your skills, but we'll see, Joey feels he's got something left in the tank. If he were to start in the minors and Vogelbach's in the big leagues, you've got a chance maybe to experiment with that. If it doesn't go well for the first month, month and a half, whatever the case may be, you can pivot and maybe if Joey's doing great things, he gets the opportunity. It's just more options and anytime you have more options, that's great. I don't think this is the perfect I think signing for the BlueJizz. I'm not going all crazy thing. What an amazing signing the BlueJizz guy, Joey Votto. This is not the same Joey Votto that has had this Hall of Fame possible career. We'll see. Time will tell, but it never hurts to add options. There's no risk to it. It's a minor league deal. None of these are guaranteed. Yeah, there's a couple million bucks if he makes the Major League roster, but that's pocket change to this. You know, I'm interested to get your perspective as a proud Canadian that made the Major Leagues of baseball. That's a small, very select few human beings on planet Earth, Joe, and Joey Votto has participated twice in the World Baseball Classic for Team Canada. But since then, he had the quotes that, of course, have a lot of people still feeling raw, frankly. I said, in 2018, I don't care almost at all about Canadian baseball. I wasn't raised inside of Canadian baseball, really. I'm coming up on half of my life being in the United States working and being supported by American baseball. Now, since then, and I was part of this, I interviewed Joey Votto after that, he was everywhere. I know Jamie Campbell did a one-on-one with him. He was very apologetic and tried to explain it away. But as a guy who, I'm sure, Joe, you feel very close to Canadian baseball. How do you feel about Joey Votto's connection to the sport in this country? Well, a few minutes ago, I told you, at a great interview, it was yesterday because he's so articulate and thoughtful when he speaks. But we also have seen many clips where he's a different guy. He's a different guy, and I know we've all probably done it, and you start going down a road, and you maybe say things you regret, and I'm sure he did. You know, if I'm Canadian and I'm involved with Canadian baseball, that's the last thing you want to hear from one of your legends. But I'm sure he, in watching some of that back, he's a different bird. We know that, right? We just watched a lot of pull-up on the internet and watched some of those interviews. Remember the amount he helped that he was wearing? He went off like Chris Russo there was that last year. So there's that side of him, and you know, maybe he can just go sideways a little bit, and obviously he didn't have that instance. Yeah, certainly was. I'll keep my comments to myself on those comments. Other things I wanted to talk to you about from this camp is the pitching, but not so much the guys we necessarily expect to see, you know, in a starting rotation anyways to start the year. Ricky Tiedemann is a guy who there's been so much talk about. We know he bulked up in a big way. Had the outing this weekend where he was touching '96, '97. What have you seen from Tiedemann and maybe compare that to your expectations, right? I mean, not that you're unaware of these guys, but your focus is on the Major League team. What have you seen out of Tiedemann getting to see him so up close and personal in camp? Well, you know, I remember a year ago, and he pitched the game that we were doing, and I was kind of my jaw was dropping. It's like, wow, this guy's up for 90s, two secondary pitches to change up in the slider. It was just like, oh, my goodness, it was the first time I had actually seen him pitch. So that was my first impression. So I saw him this spring, and I'm sure you've heard how he's gigantic now, put on lots of weight. And of course, then it has a hamstring issue, who would set them back a little bit. But I think the best thing about what he did the other day, and I watched some clips of it was the fact that he was out there and starting a baseball game. And that means that he's getting back to build up. And that's where it all starts. And I love the fact that they started him as opposed to going and ending in two thirds in relief. He probably got to do his full routine before you do that as a starter, and he'll keep doing that. And this intriguing, anytime a left-hander, but be that stuff, that's a great combination. And I'm sure a year ago, and I remember talking to Pete Walker about this in spring training last year. And he was like, hey, this guy can help us. And unfortunately, he had an injury riddled season, which really set him back. But the game is a little different now, too. I think that teams are not as reluctant as-- I know when I was coming up, it's almost like you go one level at a time. Each year, you build up, and you have to progress to the next stage. And that's not the case. I don't think anymore. It's almost like, especially with these special arms, get them up here and use those pitches at the big league level to help you win ball games. So if he can stay on his progression now, we know that with the injuries last year, he's going to have to build up. And they're going to probably watch him very carefully this year. They can do that in the minor leagues. But maybe he debuts as a reliever later this season and can help the Blue Jays. Lots happens over six months. Ben and I were talking on the broadcast yesterday about just trying to survive the 162-game marathon, right, because October is just a different animal. And the way you survive the 162-game marathon is by being able to have little depth pieces when guys go down. We talked a lot about this Blue Jays, not just the rotation, but the bullpen. A lot of guys. Career high innings and games, and you just cringe a little bit, and you worry a little bit. But there are 30 other teams in baseball, 30 teams in baseball that feel that way. But you feel that depth will be tested eventually. It was a pretty magical year last year with how well they pitched and how healthy they stayed. And the health in camp hasn't, hasn't necessarily been there with the starting pitching. Although Kevin Gossman had some positive things to say about his progression, Alec Manoa, less so. But it does feel like no matter what the circumstances, especially with Manoa, even if Kevin Gossman is at his healthiest going forward, he's not going to have enough time to ramp up for opening day. And that there's at least going to be one rotation spot open for Bowdoin Francis, and he's going to be part of the rotation. What have you seen out of him from camp building off his first foray into Major League Baseball a season ago and the differences between being in a guy that's not exactly in high leverage moments, but doing a very good job a season ago as opposed to being a Major League starting pitcher? Yeah, I think he can certainly slide into the back of the rotation, probably slide into the back of a lot of rotation. So, you know, certainly you're right about Manoa. It doesn't look like he'll be able to start the season. I think, you know, with Mitch White out of options, maybe he's your bullpen piece or your long guy, if Bowdoin Francis is that fifth starter, a pretty good competition going on there. He did something the other night. It was in Lakeland. I was not at the game, but I was watching it. They had trouble in the first inning and misplayed ball around first base and then a little jam shot single. All of a sudden the bases were loaded with nobody out, and as I'm sitting watch and I'm thinking in my head, this is a good test for a young pitcher. And I know it's spring training, but let's see how he handles this. And you know when he got out of it with one run, he hit a guy, but then he got a strike out and a double play. And I talked to him the next day about that and I said, I was thinking that watching you pitch. I said, do you think about that? And he said, of course you do. You know, they limit the damage right there because if that's a regular season game and you go down three nothing in the first, that's tough, right? Three or four nothing. Those things can unravel in a hurry. So yeah, he's very composed out there, never seems to get too bothered. And the things we don't see, this is the joys of being a catcher and being in the moment is that you can feel a lot of what the pitcher's doing. And he told me that he came out of the bullpen and he just didn't have a real good feel for a fastball. He was released. He was just kind of all over a little bit. He couldn't command and it took him a little while to get it, but it cost him, but it could cost him a lot more. And what I like to say, I love the term, figure it out. He figured it out. He figured it out and limited them to one run right there. So I had an interesting chat with him about that at length because that's important, especially if you are a fifth starter. You don't want to go up there, give up four or five in the first and put your team behind that early. So that was good, a good test. And I know it's a spring training game and it's the Tigers. But those are the things that I like, that those are building blocks for him too. And that's going to happen. It'll happen in the regular season when he's facing the Mariners, but a Yankee or whoever the case may be, and you got to make pitches. So good piece for him. And at the end, he kind of kind of joked and said, I like those things actually to happen in spring training, right? So you have to work your way through them. So lots of good for Brown Francis and if he's flotted in the back end of rotation, that's absolutely fine by me. Yeah, and he's not going to have the March afternoon son at a minor league ballpark in left field when he comes to the major leagues. Cause I was watching that game and it was one thing when Kyle Schwarver misses a bomb, like, Oh, yeah, that's Kyle Schwarver. And then the one bar show missed one there. I was like, Oh, that seems like a good plan for anybody that's coming up, maybe just hit one into the end of the the sky and left field that's going to end up as a base hit. But no, as you as you said, good job by Bowden to work his way out of it, Joe, always appreciate the time and fast approaching just a couple of weeks from Thursday opening day, man. March it comes fast that I keep saying the old it's early. It's early. It's really anymore. We're almost two weeks out. So it should be a lot of fun and you you probably seen the schedule too, not going to be the early on for these blue J's hitters would be good. No, it's not. Uh, should be fun though, Joe, I always appreciate it. Thanks, man. All right. Take care guys. You too. Joe Siddle of a blue J's central boy. That would be a fun ticket in Buffalo to see Ricky Tiedemann starting and Joey Votto hitting second. Yeah. That might be a tough ticket, actually. It could be. Yeah, definitely. I mean, why wouldn't you, you know, not to begrudge the beautiful Queen City as we found out. It's called. Yeah. But, you know, I feel like there are little sparse entertainment options, no bills going on. The sabers exist, but you could certainly take that in as well. So yeah, it'd be, it'd be awesome to see you going to see you going to see Votto hitting bombs in that park. And then we get to have all the discussions of if they're real after everything happened with Vladi going on there of him just dominating a minor league parks and then going so well in major league ones. But I know it's like I'm half kidding, but it'll be awesome to see the idea of Joey Votto just in the York, like even me who, you know, I kind of hinted at it. I don't need to belabor the point here, but it's like I have, I feel like I share the sentiment of some people who still remember those Canada baseball comments. Even I can sit there and see him in the blue J's blue and go. Good for him. I'm happy. He's happy. So I feel like I've almost, I've come out to, to on the opposite side, understanding that I'm going to be viewed as this like, yeah, you're just like a biologist and the joy. Whatever he says is fine. Yeah, no, like this is Joey Votto's, like I said, to me, the second greatest Canadian position player of all time behind Larry Walker, and it's pretty close between the two. I think the Larry Walker's defense and some of the other things and celery things play into Larry Walker beings just right there, a little past where Joey Votto was. And yeah, you can make the course field argument, but yeah, it's Cincinnati, Great American ballpark is not exactly like the Polo grounds, the center field there either. Okay. Bring back the Polo grounds. And, and again, I haven't been, I haven't been excited enough about the Joey Votto thing here today. Yeah, you haven't. You've been so like, well, I'd like to take a pragmatic view of it. Oh my God. Have a heart, you Grinch. It'd be cool to see a guy. And I believe him when he says the shoulder thing has been the hold up for him the last two years. He had shoulder surgery. This is a guy that has worked his way back to just being a majorly caliber player. And he just barely that last season playing DH and hitting a bunch of bombs, but barely hitting over the Mendoza line. So just, yeah, being a full-time DH, that's just, that's not, that's not the level of production that you're hoping to accomplish if you're Joey Votto. I think it's possible that you get above average production at a Joey Votto. I would not wager any amount of money. I think if your take is that Daniel Vogelbach is the more likely person to be a productive player for the Blue Jays, this is, you're not, you're, I'm not going to laugh you out of the room. Now that being said, the, the, the Canada baseball thing to me, like I don't, I'm Brad Canadian. I love watching Canada play at the world baseball classic. I want them to win. For sure. I loved watching Joey Votto when he was wearing the Maple Leaf. Yeah. That comment hurt me. Okay. Um, he's also just a man, like I, I, I'm looking at, I'm looking at the Joey Votto thing honestly, a little dispassionately. I'm just, when I talk about how much I enjoy Joey Votto and the fan of the player that I, he, I am of him. Yeah. I really am not talking about like the cutesy little Instagram stuff and the, that's your comment. I'm just talking about the player. You like looking at the back of his baseball card. That's it. When I'm talking about professional athletes, I try not to get into the, the weeds too much with that because you're only going to end up disappointing yourself and hurting yourself. If, honestly, if you, if you go, I Joey Votto, what a cool, like, man, just, you, who knows what people are really, buddy, I love Tiger and Tom Brady. You're talking, you're preaching the choir here. Okay. So it doesn't offend me because I don't really care about any of these guys. Personal proclivities. Yeah. It does offend me. I don't like it. I didn't like him, you know, wearing the humble shirt when he was interviewed by Jamie Kim. I didn't like that. It felt to me like, fawning for, look, I'm, I'm making do. And I suppose that's what I would have wanted, but it just rang as somebody doing the right thing as opposed to doing what they felt to me. But I don't want to begrudge this. I don't want to make this about that. The thing I will ask you to do though is we have to find something in life that allows you to not just look at it pragmatically and actually just love something. Because if this, if Joey Votto being a, no, but you're like, that ain't gonna couch it 50 hundred times, I just would like you to just be excited. We talked about this. You can't get it. I'm excited. Okay. I'm sad. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Bye. Bye. (upbeat music) (dramatic music)
