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Is The Exorcist (1973) Still Scary In 2024?

Is The Exorcist still a spine-chiller in 2024? Hosts Jack and Ben dive into this iconic horror classic to see if it retains its scare factor decades after its release.

Join them as they explore the film’s themes, asking whether faith holds relevance in today’s society. They’ll also unpack the film’s groundbreaking practical effects that made it unforgettable—and a societal phenomenon that was banned in the UK until 1999! To cap it off, they dig into the creepy on-set incidents that added to its infamous reputation.

Join us for this episode and stick around for more horror film deep-dives this Spooky SZN!

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Broadcast on:: 08 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

(upbeat music) - Hello everyone, welcome to BYUobi pod. Hope you've had a wonderful weekend. Hello, Jack, how are you? - Good, thank you mate, how are you? - Yeah, good, we're recording on Monday evening. So I feel like you should get a sort of almost like a free pass if there are any energy lulls in this episode at all. Given that you're a man, I think ideally you'd like to be in bed, what, like 9.45? - Yeah, probably, I mean, my alarm is set to probably about quarter past five. So I do like to get a bit of a pass. - A pass five? - Yeah, well-- - Do you bounce out? - Ta? - Do you bounce out of quarter past five? When it goes, is it like bang up? - Yeah, up, get in my bag, brush my teeth, get out the door for about five, 30 and on my way. - Can you give me some advice? - Mate, I just, I've always just been a morning person. I'd love to tell you that I-- - Why are you bastards? - I've got some secret things to it, but you know, like when it comes to evenings and you're enjoying yourself at a restaurant and stuff and I'm just trying to stay awake, it's exactly, it's the trade off. - But I felt the world is geared, like we've said before, it's geared towards starting earlier, isn't it? - I think it's been wrong, it's not every single morning, some mornings I do, just if I've had a bad night's sleep or whatever, you wake up in the wrong window, right? And you're just knackered, and that's a big part of it. But yeah, always been an early riser, but there are certain things you can do, like have electrolytes in the morning, have a load of water, have electrolytes, and don't smash coffee straight away, don't go for coffee. - I think we should move on, this is a very weird start to a film one. - Sorry, that's my fault, that's my fault. - Right, I need some caffeine now, I don't know. - Get a bit of a kick, so I've been to cinema this week, we'll drop that in a separate pod for you, I want to see a different man, really, really interesting film, like really, really weird, not as messed up as the substance, but weird enough that I think you need to kind of be switched on when you go to cinema, you need to go and be engaged. - Have you seen under the skin, the Scarlett Hansen, Jonathan Glaser film? - No. - Also stars Adam Pearson as well. - No, I haven't. - From a different man, well, well, maybe we'll see about that, then in a few weeks time, won't we, mate? - Oh, okay, okay, and there's an A24 film, very nice. Adam Pearson is very good, like, he's very, very good at it. In a different man, and, yeah, like I said, I'll very much get into that. But this week, we're talking the exorcists, so. - Yeah, we're in spooky season. How are you, it's your favourite time of the year, mate, isn't it? - I get so panicky and scared, watching the exorcist this week, there were points, so I was watching it going, (grunting) just, like, almost growling like the devil in Reagan. I'm, like, sitting there like that hands clenched, body in, sort of, coiling up. I just, oh, this was a hard watch. I'm watching ages. And, well, first, actually, first and foremost, I think you and I should break down which versions we watch, sorry. - Yeah. - I've watched the 4K Ultra HD version, which had its own interesting quirks, but you watched. - But yours was the original theatrical one. - The original, yeah. - Yeah. - And by accident, I didn't mean to, I was just, I thought I was hiring the original, I just hired the exorcist off of Google's, sort of, YouTube store. But it was, it ended up being the version you've never seen before, which is basically the director's cut from, I think, the year 2000, it came out. And I'd never seen that before. I'd only ever seen the original. And it was an interesting experience. As, basically, as is the case with most directors cuts, it's a longer film. Thus, there's more exposition. And it just explains the story in a fuller fashion. It was, it made for, it made the film a lot better. Like, and I really like the exorcist. I think it's really good, but the pacing of, look, if you're happy to sit down for two and a half hours and watch director's cuts of films, I always recommend to do it, because they're generally always so much better. - What was the, was it two and a half hours? - Near and out, I think, about two hours and 14 minutes, maybe? - So it's got another 10, 20 minutes in it, sort of thing. - Yeah. - Yeah, and there was one of the things that jumped out on me straight away. I was like, oh wow, I'd forgotten how many holes there were in the plot in the original cut. There's just some little jumps. You're like, well, where did that person go? Well, where did that person come from? Well, why did that happen like that? And why did you, why did you pick it? What was your, what was your kind of, what made you lean towards it? - I just kind of thought, though, it's often comes out on the top of the list of the scariest film of all time. I would say it is, yeah, I would say we're probably without a doubt, it's the biggest horror film of all time. I'd say it's the most kind of, you know, it's gained the most notoriety over the years. So why not kick off spooky season with that mate, you know? - It definitely, it's always the one that people go back to, isn't it? - Yeah. - Like people sort of tend to lean towards this as their greatest horror film of all time. I have got a good one for you later on, though, that I'll just sort of tease now. I'm very excited for the one that I've got there. But I guess so much of that would be because of the timing of it because of when it came out. Ten Oscar nominations, two Oscar wins, and weirdly sort of, do you know what? We'll get onto how it was received. I'll try and give you a little sort of like, I'll spoil it. - You're gonna spoil it in six seconds. I'm gonna get a timer up here. - I'll try and give you the plot line, or at least just try and spoil it for it. If you haven't seen the film, I will try and give you it as quickly as possible. - All right, and three, and a two, and a one. Off you go. - So, Ellie, Chris McNeil, and her daughter, Reagan, live in a house in Washington, and they are having a fair, they have a fairly normal existence. Fairly normal existence until Chris starts to fear that her daughter has been possessed by some sort of demon. Weird stuff starts to happen to her over the course of time. We also have an alternative time, not going on with Father Carras, who's struggling with his faith. He gets introduced to Chris, and she asks him to perform an exorcism. He says that he doesn't want to do it, because he thinks actually it could be psychological problems. There have been no actual cases of exorcisms over the course of last however long, because people have been-- - Six seconds a second a second a second. - Like lunatics, and people who have had psychosis and things like that. And then, basically, he has to go and perform an exorcism with Father Carras, played by-- Oh, God, I've just absolutely bollocks this. I just bollocks it. - Oh, and it's over. - Can you just tell people, actually, I did a terrible, I just did a horrible job of that. It's tough, it's a weirdly difficult. Even though it feels like it's quite a simple, straightforward premise, there are quite a few moving pieces to the film, aren't there? - Like, if you did elevate a pitch, you'd say, basically, a girl has got the devil inside of her, and then a priest has to perform an exorcism on her, even though he's struggling with his own demons at the same time. - Well, and then I would say to you, it's not actually the devil, Ben, it's Pazuzu. - What is Pazuzu? (laughs) - So, I've got the actual, I can tell you exactly what Pazuzu is. - Wait, doesn't he say I'm the effing devil? - Yeah, but it's all part of the demon's con. So, Pazuzu, 'cause I wanted to look up, I was like, it's Pazuzu, like, somewhere based in, you know, like the religious text, basically, either the Torah or the Old Testament, or something like that, where there is often a bit of, I think it's hinted at a bit of like demonology and stuff, isn't it? But it's not, Pazuzu is actually an old, like Babylonian demonic spirit, right? - Oh, so that's the spirit at the beginning. - Exactly that. So, it's obviously with the film. And can I put to you? Can I put to you? - Are you like me, like, I think a lot of people who watch this film, guilty of always forgetting that the film starts in Iraq. - And when it came up and it said Northern Iraq, I was like, oh shit. - Yeah, I've forgotten about that. - Yeah, and it sort of, I guess it's why they're doing that from my understanding of it. Anyway, it's to show you that this is like an ancient evil. This is something that has plagued mankind from its very beginning. And it's obviously, it's obviously an ancient evil coming from the part of the world where the Holy Scriptures and everything, the Abrahamic religions were all formed and then went across the world, so. - So, is that a bit, this was something that, 'cause like I said, I haven't watched it so long, the beginning sequence has got Max van Cydal's character almost, he's almost a bit of an Indiana Jonesy type, raiding tombs, et cetera. And we see this moment where almost a spirit or some sort of the kind of, it's almost like the Pentecostal style, wind and flame, rushing out of a tomb. Are we to assume that he has released or freed? - Perhaps, yeah, I personally think there's a level of ambiguity to it, but I kinda took it that he has, in part, kind of released this ancient evil from some sort of seal, as in like, maybe somebody at some point in history has performed in exorcism and managed to keep bazoozoo there. But then I guess there's a bigger question that comes up, maybe this is too soon to be having this conversation, but we've sort of gotten here quite naturally. Is the film actually about Reagan or is the film about Max van Cydal? Let me just, Father, what's his name? - Marin, is it? - Father Marin. Is it actually about him? Is he the main character? Is he the one that they're supposed to, no, Father- - Father Caris, is there- - Father Caris is there, yeah, it's the kind of the- - It's Rocky Balboa. - Marin in, yeah, yeah. But you know, you kind of get this feeling that Father Marin has had, where you've been told, he's had battles with a demon before, a demon, he had battles with one for months, I think they said, when he was performing in exorcism before. And then he's obviously gone to Iraq, like you say, he's disturbed something, he's disturbed in ancient evil, and as fate would have it, he ends up getting called. It's almost like the demon is luring him, 'cause he knows that he's gonna be the one that's gonna get called, and finally, the demon kills Father Marin, doesn't he? So is that- - Yeah, does he though? - Does the demon actually kill him? Because we come back to the room, and he's just sort of there, and having kicked it, and you're like, oh, did he? 'Cause you and I both discussed it this week, Mark Kommode's celebrating 25 years of The Exorcist, and there was a Radio 4 version, which I listened to first, which was a half an hour, almost podcast-style version. Then I watched the full version, which was released on iPad Air a little bit later on, I think. I think it was released only a few years ago, maybe? - Yeah, well, 'cause I mean, the film's now like 51, so I think it was an old documentary, wouldn't it? - Yeah, in 1998, Doc. And then I think they sort of re-released the documentary, maybe 15, 20 years later, with loads of bits added in, because there was lots of stuff that hadn't sort of made it out in the first cut of the documentary. But there was something in there around the idea of Father Marin dying from a heart attack. - Yeah. - So, yeah, I mean, the character is supposed to be old, so I suppose that tracks. But yeah, all I-- - It takes his little pills as well, doesn't it? - Yeah, and I had wondered, sort of from the start of this, I was like, I wonder what the significance, 'cause they're really at pains to make this point that he's tomb raiding at the beginning, and they have a real thing about the, he's doing it in the light, and then suddenly it goes dark. - Yeah. - While he's out in Iraq. It's quite fascinating beginning. - I feel like I just, just on this point, quickly, pull me, move on. I do also feel like there's a less kind of literal point behind the beginning and everything. I mean, like the film, it's interesting to note that the film opens and closes with an Islamic call to prayer, considering it's a film that's very deeply rooted in Catholicism. And I can't help but feel that with the film starting in the ancient world, if you like, if it's starting in kind of what was, yeah, classically Babylon, or at least in the Babylonian kind of region of Iraq, that there's something there that's showing that like mankind, no matter our beliefs, we always have this battle with evil. Wherever we are in the world, you cannot escape from evil, whatever your faith, whatever you believe, evil is ever present, and it's something that we have to fight against. And now it depends how you interpret that evil, because I think there's a very clear juxtaposition here of the old world and the new. And I think one of the major themes of this film is all about that struggle, that struggle of what is the place of faith in the modern world, right? What place does it hold anymore? And I think seeing that where, I think where faith is still a lot stronger. So in a region like Iraq, especially in like the 1970s, as you can see, faith seems to be more a kind of commonplace part of everybody's lives, whereas you would say in the West, faith has been on the decline. It's been on a sort of downwards slope, really, for the most part anyway. And we're gonna have a conversation about this a bit later on, but I just think it's interesting to start this film, 'cause it's almost showing you straight up like, will these same rules here, will the reverence that people have for demons and for the evil that exists within society, will that reverence still be held when it's introduced into American, middle American, suburbia? And as we see as the film starts, it isn't, because they take it through all sorts of tests and everything to sort her out before they begrudgingly get a whole father marinine, right? - Yeah, the testing bit, which again, we'll comment on this at that. That was a really tough watch. The bit with the blood. You can, like-- - It's horrible, isn't it? - I'm not great with blood, but that was particularly pickily. And just before we go into some of this like juicy, juicy stuff, I don't know, you probably know this better than I do. Purely just from research and what have you, but from what I can see, one of the big reasons why this film has gained so much notoriety and why it's so consistently called "Run the Scariest Films of All Time" is because of how shocking it was at the time of release. Now, because I'm so far removed from that time, watching it again, full disclosure, I found some of the, watching some of the things that would be scary, quite silly at times. Like, and almost boarding on the kind of like ludicrous, like the bit of the smashing the crucifix into a lady bits and all of that. And then the bed jumping up and down like you're on something at Thought Park. Like, some of that stuff was a bit bizarre to me. And I was thinking about it more and more. And I was fighting that urge to be a bit of a piss-ant and be like, "Oh, this is so silly." And then started to think more about what was this 1973? I think it is. - Yeah, yeah. - So I started to think about, okay, put yourself in the mind of someone who's sitting in a cinema in 1973 at a time when there is three TV channels. So three television channels, the extent of horror stuff would've been things like Dracula that was a million or like vampire-y star things or very old-school black and white. - That's how the horror is, right? - Exactly. Things that felt a little bit far-fetched. And then suddenly you get this thing, this is at a time, we're so used to now, in 2024, we're so used to now, the idea of, if people don't ink on the screen, you pretty much see the whole lot. If someone gets killed on the screen, it's not just their eyes closed and they go, you see their head get chopped off or you see like blood absolutely everywhere. There's at a time when none of that would've been the case. It would've been so shocking and so frightening. And even just that the idea of cursing on screen would've been absolutely frowned upon. So I tried to put myself into the position of 50 years ago, what, how would people have reacted? And then when I watched a couple of things around it, seeing the fact that it, you got banned in the UK. In fact, I think as late as nearly 2,000, you couldn't get caught. - 99, I got let out again. - You couldn't get hold of it on video. So that, I guess that kind of tells you. - I mean, there's some parts, 'cause I mean, you know, you talk about the cross bit there. I know it seems quite far-school, but it's still quite shocking, isn't it? It's shocking. - Yeah, shocking is the work, definitely, definitely. - They, you know, a lot of those bits, they didn't get Linda Blair to do that. You know, she was 12 years old and they made the film. They did have a, I'm sorry, I forget her name, but they did have a stand in for her for like that, the crucifix scene. - Was it Mercedes something or was that the one? - No, that's who did the voice of Pazazzu. And yeah, a lot of the lines, especially some of the like more obscene lines, they just didn't get her to do them, you know? But she was still sort of effing and jeffing, you know what I mean? And she was 12 years old. So it's, there was an interesting thing in that curmo documentary when they said, when one of the co-stars said, does it make you feel, you know, do you feel embarrassed? Or does it make you feel a bit uncomfortable to use all these adult words and things? - 'Cause no, because it's not me, it's Reagan. And they were like, God, this kid just, she, you know, they were like, they've made a good pick on this kid because you need a stable kid to be able to be in a film like this. But she was saying, like Linda, but I said, she obviously, she didn't watch it for years after she'd actually starred in it. She wasn't allowed to watch it. - That's so wild. It was, and there was such a, it looks like it was such a range, a split of how people approached the film. Some people that were in it approaching it, very kind of blase, and this is a film I'm making a film. And lots of other people really sort of buying into the myth of the film as well. - Yeah, I think, I think it seems to be at the time, like from, at least from the UK side of things that I looked into, there was a real deep, like moral and religious panic about it in the UK. That's kind of what led to it being banned. 'Cause it did come out in the cinema for a limited time, and then I think they just took it away and just banned it in the UK entirely. - Just legit, nope. - Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Because you sort of, considering, you often think of America as being somewhere that it's a lot more religious than the UK is, right? Even in the '70s, I would have thought that. But my mum said she saw it, and she snuck in to see it. She played true in that school, and she snuck in to watch there. Yeah, she watched The Exorcist. - That's a great story. - Yeah, I knew. - You're gonna play true in to go and watch a film. - Yeah, and it terrified her. - Well, do you know what, it's really, again, I'm skipping ahead a bit here, but how fascinating that the church exerted enough authority, not the church more generally, but the Catholic church in particular, could exert that level of authority and yield that much power that could put pressure for a film to just be banned. - Yeah. - But do you think it could still do that today? - No, no, definitely, definitely not. Yeah, there's just no way, because I think culture with a capital C has almost replaced Catholicism, or is certainly Catholicism possibly Christianity, because the idea, I mean, I'll do this later on probably, and I'm very, people get really annoyed with me, 'cause I've sound like a broken record, but community is very, very different from what it was, and the church used to be quite a hefty part of what made up community. So I think if you, at that time, if people within church communities are like, "Oh, if you've seen this film, "it could very quickly, it could become "Rolling Stone Gather in Moss," and I think now, there's just no way that everything is dispersed so much and fragmented so much. Really, it's incredibly difficult to get cultural moments. - Yeah. - It's really, really tough. I think Barbie was kind of like, of its time, it was one of few things that's cut through absolutely everything, like everything, 'cause it would span generations as well. Even, but the funny thing is, mate, I'm just, I'm intrigued to know where things go because I think for quite a long time. And I really don't mean this in the trailer. I mean this in a very serious, genuine way. Football became church for people for a long time. - No, I definitely agree. - Late 1960s onwards, right? It was somewhere where we all gathered together on the weekends, sung songs. There's a sense of community. But even that now, like you're talking about like, people are getting priced out of football with, everything is, the whole sport is so over-saturated that it feels like, there's not even any cultural cut through there, right? You know, I think about all the big events. Ferguson and David Beckham and Eric Canton are, and whatever, whatever other moments has been down the street through football. You just don't feel that anymore. What iconic moments can you say there's been in the Premier League since Aguero? - Yeah, and now you could probably go one step further on this as well, if you sort of elevate it, kind of broader step as well to wider society, culture, things like that. Newspapers can't, don't get any cut through. You can't get front page news anymore because everything has been dispersed so much that actually, the moment something happens within five minutes, it's gone. So when you think about a cultural event like this, I mean, I think it's quite kind of special. You think people would have been going to school being like, oh my God, have you seen the X-Sis? Like, your mum would have been going to school going, have you seen the X-Sis? Like, oh, I snuck off from school to go and see it. Like, that's quite special. That's, I mean, we won't have it again, but it's really, really cool that people, that people would have been desperate to do anything to get their hands on it. - Look, do you find, like, if we can relate this to the film, if we can relate this to Father Caris? And this is a, like, I think the 1970s was quite an interesting point in culture as well, right? We often hear that, yeah, you'd had like the sort of like, the 1950s where it was still kind of like the nuclear family and people were still kind of breaking free of those conservative ideals and everything, of, you know, gender roles and all that type of thing. And then the 1960s, suddenly, freedom of expression, everybody was kind of liberal and everybody was suddenly having this great time. But then suddenly the '70s is one of these times in history that seems to be marked with this real sense, at least across the West, of people not really knowing what anything meant anymore. - Identity crisis is the cyclical thing, isn't it? Of like, you go for an era of everyone being like, freedom and then people lean so far into the idea of liberty and freedom that nothing means anything and everyone's a bit lost. And I think you might have said this to me, a little while back, but you kind of do see, you see that cyclical element returning within the modern day as well, right? Everyone has got to that point where they want to democratize absolutely everything. So media in particular, with social media, people want almost the liberal aspect of it of being anyone being able to share anything at any time and everyone gets a blue tick and no one's more important than anyone else. And then suddenly nothing means anything. And everything just doesn't really carry any weight. So it is quite, I mean, it's quite fascinating to see that cycle happen again and again. And I did quite enjoy the kind of solitary nature of Father Karis just going out and being Rocky Balboa and doing his training sessions on his own because you can kind of relate to that, can't you? Just him out there, just feeling a bit lost and just going and pounding the track or just beating the crap out of a punch bag. - But it must be, it must be a really, it's an, it must be an interesting place to find yourself in knowing that you've devoted yourself to God, especially in a stricter fashion like following the doctrine as a Catholic priest would have to as well for going, you know, the pleasures of the flesh and marriage and anything like that. - Such a great turn of phrase there. (laughing) - But then to suddenly hit a point in your life where you just know in yourself, you don't have faith anymore. - Yeah. - That you actually, when you really think about it, you've spent your life studying this stuff and you know there's that part that you can't unthink in the depths of your being that you don't fully believe it. - Can you tell me that? What moment is it in the film where you think he's losing or lost it? Is it the stuff with his mum in particular? - I think he's skeptical from the very beginning. I think we join him at a point in his life where he's living in a kind of like, you know, a rundown little apartment in a kind of beat up part of town. He's got, I think this might have just been in this director's cut that I watched. Does he have conversations with his uncle in the theatrical cut? 'Cause I couldn't remember those actually. - No, I don't think so. - So this is part of the thing that's quite interesting that they expand upon a bit more in there. There were just certain few conversations, especially around Father Carris in this extended version. Someone is having more like kind of theological discussions with other priests and stuff, but there is some with his uncle, with his mother's brother, who is basically saying to him, look at how he's saying to him, like, look at how your mother lives. Look at how you've let her live. You had the brain on you. You had the brain on you to be a top, a leading kind of psychologist, scientist. You could have looked after her and instead you followed this path and you've look at where it's led you to and look at where it's led her to. 'Cause she lives in this kind of crappy, she lives a fairly kind of solitary existence. And she ends up having like a fall or something and hurting her leg. And they put her in like just like a convalescent home. - Yeah. - And again, I don't know if that's in the original cut. - Well, that is in the, this is one of the holds, right? So they take her to the home and then he kind of, then I think he has a conversation with his uncle. - Yeah. - Who then is like, you've put her in this place, what are you doing? And then does he get her home but then she dies because she's at home? - No, he wants to, that's his ambition is to get her somewhere where she can be looked after that's better than that place. But nobody's got the money, he can't afford it. He knows his uncle can't afford it. So she stays there and just dies in that home. And then he's just kind of sat in his little apartment drinking whiskey to himself and one of the other fathers comes and says to him, "Come on, what are you doing?" And he's just sent him, "I just don't believe anymore. "I've just lost my faith. "I don't have it anymore." And it's, it's really, it's really, you know, obviously it's funny that, you know, he gets pretty much the best way to reclaim his faith is to walking into the situation that he has done with this, but, you know, I think a lot of the film, there's an element of fate and everything about the film, about everything happening for a reason. So be it, you know, Father Caris and also be it Father Merrin who's had battles with these demons, who's come, you know, arguably face-to-face with Pazazzu before being called out to this place. It's, you know, you could say it's all part of God's master plan within the context of this film, right? - Yeah, well, I did, I loved the line. I think it was the writer who said it. I think it was the writer who said it, but it was the line that through understanding that the devil exists, Father Caris is able to reclaim his faith because he must accept that if the devil exists, then God exists too, which is a really neat framing of that discussion because usually it's the other way around, usually people say, well, if God exists, then the devil must exist. Because if you're gonna say that you kind of won without the other, then you must accept that the devil's there. And actually, I thought that was quite a clever spin as a way to show someone reclaiming their faith or refinding their faith is that he's being confronted with this true horror and in the depths of despair, he's able to realize actually that he has faith and that there's light and there is a big play on the idea of light and darkness in the film as well. But in the darkest moment, he's able to find that light and that faith again because of how dark it is, which I think is really cool. - But that's it. It's funny, isn't it? Because I think a lot is made of this film because, like I say, with the director's cut, for example, there's a couple of little scenes during the exorcism where it's a bit more gruesome. You see more bloods and stuff coming out of her mouth and things like that. But it seems to be really the biggest scary scene, if you like, that's added that they cut from the original is when Reagan does like the spider walk down the stairs, she does this thing where she basically like, she's bent over backwards and she's running down the stairs and there's like blood pouring out of her mouth. And William Friedkin cut this from the original because he said, "The technology didn't really exist "to do it properly at the time." And they've revisited it since in post-production and everything and managed to like, make it-- - Does it work in the one you watch? - Yeah, I mean, but I don't even think it's entirely necessary. It feels like it's the thing to get people, watch the director's cut because it's got the infamous spider walk scene in it. But really, like I say, as you often look, horror films are generally, the thing is, and I know you sound so like peak film hips doing you say this stuff, but horror films are usually, for the most part, metaphorical, right? They're usually a way of conveying an actual takeaway, not like an Indian or a Chinese, and talking about like the takeaway message for the audience that usually has some kind of, it's usually a kind of a satire on something to do with our society or whatever. And it felt to me that like, the exorcist really, although it has so many scary scenes, well, the director's cut and really what the original even gives you. I think a lot more of the horror in this film, and I'm not, I promise you, I'm not just saying this to be edgy. I think a lot more of the horror is found in the human element of this film. I think a lot of it is found in that idea of somebody like Father Karis, who I'd say has devoted his life to something, and seen how his life has ended up. He's had belief, he's had faith, he's had this one singular vision to devote his life to something that he believes in, that he believes is pure, that he believes is gonna add value. And yet all he sees around him is death and misery and the bleakness of the world. And that has eroded part of him. It's affected him as a human being, not as a vessel or a messenger of God, as a human being, it's broken him. And there's something really like, it's almost like, in this, it's kind of like God's gift to him, is putting him through this horrendous situation to say, don't worry your faith has, in the end, it came to this point and it's paid off. Does he become a martyr in the end? - Yeah, I think so, doesn't he? - Because the other priest goes and gives him his final reconciliation, which is kind of fascinating. And we're almost to believe that he's kind of absolved of him and of any sin at that point, so that he's... - It's their last rites, isn't it? The Catholics do. - Yeah, I mean, that was really, really interesting. I did think sort of, again, that idea of the repetition of the being thrown down the steps as well. It's quite cool. That was quite an interesting part of the documentary about how they managed to film that. - Yeah. - That they managed to get a stuntman to genuinely fall down the steps twice. And they just rubberized the steps. I'm like, I'm sorry, but just adding rubber to those steps is not gonna stop you horribly getting smashed up. - Well, no, and Jason Miller, who plays Father Caris, spoke to the stuntman and asked him, he said, "How do you manage to do that?" And the stuntman just said, "Zen." I just let my, I don't put up any resistance. I let my body move across the steps. And I thought it was probably something in that, isn't that? - That, that, and just like being horrendously lucky. I mean, don't easily get paranoid of training, loads of training. - It's just crazy. - But I do think there's something in this, in the fact that it looks so real and so gritty. I do like the fact that we spoke about it earlier on, the medical testing is horrible. It feels very, very real. The fact that it's just in an average street in, is it Georgetown? I think it is Georgetown in Washington. It, like the, the rats in the roof stuff, again, it's like a scary in itself. - That noise, isn't it? When you hear that kind of, and it's like rubble or something. - Yeah. And do you know what? It reminds me a little bit of that, a bit in Home Alone. You know, it goes downstairs and the heater makes that noise. It's something scary just in that in itself. And then the fact that it's a, it's a young girl, makes it so much more. It changes it from being anything like a slasher film or a big scary bad guy, to just being quite horrifying. - Well, it's shocking. And I think, in herself, like the character Reagan is a, is a kind of metaphor for, you know, all tied up into this idea of the crisis of faith and the identity crisis of the Western world at the time of this film being made. You know, it's almost like it's a, it's a loss of innocence, isn't it? And it's kind of like, you know, classically speaking in the way, the thing that people always look at as a symbol of the purest form of innocence is a young child, especially a young girl. And I think to see like a young girl sort of defiled in such a obscene way as this film portrays, which, and this is one of the things that does carry through to this day. That stuff, it's still obscene to this day. It's still shocking, like that stuff. You don't, I mean, I struggle to, I honestly struggle to think of a mainstream. I'm not talking about like your niche kind of like, slasher movies that get played at the Prince Charles cinema and then people watch to kind of say, this is the glorious, the most horrible film ever, but I'm talking about mainstream studio movies. I think any of them have really pushed the envelope in the same way as like the Exorcist does in terms of like the shocking obscenity to it. How shocking it is. And the language as well. Yeah. Like, and it's so, yeah, that some of the parts where there's just such aggressive, blaspheming. Well, can I, can I give you a, 'cause I looked it up, can I give you a, I was a couple of days years old when I found out. So you know the, the most, the infamous. Do you know what she did? You're panting daughter? So I've always sort of been like, what the hell? Like, why the hell does the demon at this point choose to have this bizarre British accent? It has gone into, it's like John Matson's just rotten. Yeah. And you know. Yeah. So who it is, who it actually is. And then suddenly as soon as I'm like, as soon as I read this, I was like, of course. It's, it's the spirit, or at least the demon is mocking the spirit of Burke Dennings, the British director who is directing her mother's film who she twists the neck of and pushes out the window. The one that says you're going to die up there. Yeah. Who the, who the detective is initially goes to the house to just to investigate the murder. I didn't even realize that. No, no, I didn't die. That's really crap to not pick up on that. Yeah, exactly. It's really, really crap to not get that. Yeah, as soon as I read that, I was like, you're an idiot. How didn't you see that for all these years? I literally, I say that, I say that line constantly. I mean, it's just one of those things. I hope you're not saying that to Charles family. I did actually say, what do you think if you did something to annoy me one day? (laughing) I called up your mum and said that in that voice. That was actually probably laugh, right? Yeah. (laughing) You can't do that. Yeah. (laughing) Oh my God, it's so good. Yeah. This is the thing, right? Because it is, like, it is so shocking, but at the same time, I can so totally see how people, if you didn't know, I think so much of film is what you bring to a film. So like I was saying, in the 1970s, if you were a deeply religious person that was God-fearing and thought of something like this was enormously blasphemous and genuinely dangerous, the idea of going to see it would be quite scary because you would be fearful of other people around you, what other people would think, whether it had somehow some sort of impact on your life. So the idea of people running out the cinema and then running to church, there was an increase in baptisms, wasn't there? Was it interesting? Off the back of the film, and church numbers went through the roof because people were so scared by the film that they actually thought they needed to go and get protection. Well, it's funny because my mum said after she watched it, she started carrying a little prayer book around with her. (laughing) It's like just in her bag. - And some holy water, just yeah. - Yeah, it's funny that it's always a bit of a gunsling of the holy water sequence isn't it? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (slurping) - Yeah, it's interesting that there is something about, like, I don't know if it's the same for you 'cause I always put like the, I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because there was a lot of this stuff on the television when I was growing up or something like that. There's something about like the grittiness, the gnarliness of like the 1970s and 70s movies, that just sort of, it affects me in a way that like, in a very different way to like, you know, I love like, for example, the sheen, the gloss of like 90s, big blockbuster movies and maybe early noughties, tack that on. At the end there, there's very something very special about that time in cinema. But in terms of like the grittiness, there's sort of the, there's something that the 1970s, I think, it just evokes something like, quite particularly me and the exorcist is definitely a part of that. Everything just feels a bit brown. Everything feels a bit edgy, you know? And maybe it is, maybe it's just, it's kind of the first time that, you know, films and popular culture started to get edgy, you know? - Well, like, I was just thinking then, you know, the, this was late '60s, but you know, Chris Nolum was looking into the idea of remaking the prisoner? - Yeah, yeah. - You know that look, that kind of grainy, boxy, brown, earthy, very sterile, when you look at the architecture, it's quite brutal architecture. That, I so agree with you. I find all of that stuff like weirdly haunting. - Exactly that. It's sort of man from uncle-type era as well. Like the original TV series, everyone's wearing polar necks. And, but it doesn't-- - The old Doctor Who's from the '70s as well. Like how scary they are, man. - But what, like, it's so strange. You're such a weird era, wasn't it? It's very much like a no man's land that time because the '60s, you kind of, I know-- - You're lost in powers, isn't it? - Yeah, exactly, it's sort of silly. - Yeah. - It's quite silly. And the '80s is very kind of, like, in mind. - It's really on. - And then you get into the '90s and it's all very kind of like '90s is Kevin and Perry and it's quite silly as well because it's disco, it's like dance, music, rave culture and all of that. And then, for some reason, the '70s feels quite sterile. It feels quite stiff and quite characterless and quite soulless. And I don't know why, but I have this quite, it sort of feels like, it just feels a little bit like the walls are closing in on you, the '70s. I don't know why that comes to my mind, but the '70s, as an era, it doesn't feel hugely hopeful or optimistic, which is a really strange thing to pin on an entire 10-year window, but it's just something that is definitely, I feel like when I watch stuff in the '70s, that's just kind of like how you can naturally feel about it. And do you want to take me into the legacy of the film? Like, do you still, when you watch it, do you feel still moved by it in the same way that you did when you first saw it? - Yeah, I think I do. I think if anything, I think it maybe affects me more now that I'm older. - Really? - Yeah, because I just, I kind of, I really feel that. - Man of science, man of faith thing. - Kind of, but just like the struggle that, some of that, 'cause I think Father Carris's message is a universal one, this idea that, like you were talking about the walls closing and stuff of the era, I think, you know, he's getting to a point in his life, he's probably in his late '40s, you would say in the film, maybe early '50s. - Yeah, probably. - You're about, the more and more doors are starting to close on you at that point. And kind of feeling like you're drifting further from shore and realizing that there's nobody coming to save you anymore. You're on your own and you've made your decisions and they've led you to a certain place and there's no real getting out of that anymore. And I think, it's, yeah, I don't know. I think, like I say, I think the human stories within this, the guilt that he feels over his mother, even though it's something that he's not actually done wrong, that just natural layer of guilt that you kind of have a feeling of like not doing right by your parents or something. Again, it's something that's quite universal. And I think there are those kind of like horrible stories within this film that can bother you. I mean, I don't actually find like the demon, the monster, the occult side of things remotely scary. And I don't think I ever have, but I find it, I do find it deeply disturbing. And I always kind of have, but like I say, I think the scariest bit of it, I do think that, sorry. - Can I just give you a really, that's just such a wonderful metaphor that you used about the idea of drifting and being further from shore. Have you, I guess the answer, the alter, the binary kind of flip of that. Have you ever heard of that, the parable of the drowning man? - I haven't made gone, oh, I like it when you're starting. - Well, this is, it's amazing that it just came to mind, but it's kind of like, it's half parable, it's half joke. It's a kind of new take on an old parable, but the idea is is there's a devout Catholic man, but I mean, people couldn't change it to whatever religion they want, but it's about Catholic man. And he's in town and there's a huge flood. And a preacher says to him, listen, you need to get into a boat with us because you're gonna drown. And he goes, no, don't worry, like the Lord will save me, I'm good. Water keeps rising. And the man is starting to sort of drift out of control and he's getting into trouble. And another person comes in a boat and says, mate, get in the boat 'cause you're gonna drown. And he's like, no, no, no, don't worry. The Lord's got it. Floods everywhere, the guy's in real trouble and he's drifting out into the water. Then a helicopter comes and says, climb onto this rope because you're gonna drown, you're gonna die. He's like, don't worry, the Lord will save me. And then eventually the guy drowns and he gets up to heaven. And then he says, God, what happened? Like, I thought you're gonna save me. I sent two boats and a helicopter. What more did you want? And like, I absolutely love that kind of, that juxtaposition that on the one hand, like some people will, like you said, some people in life will see it as like, you are getting further and further onto your own. And then other people will see it as like, while you're in that space, you start to try and find things that you would connect to your faith as you're, as you're like, oh, I'm not alone. I'm not sort of in this, I'm not kind of in this kind of distant kind of lonely and isolated place. And I think quite a big part, sorry to go very deep and feel that stuff's gotten this, but I think one of the reasons why it's so impactful is because in the most part, I'd argue that in kind of modern day society we're pretty much left behind the idea of seeing signs around us. We've pretty much kind of like lost that. We've kind of, I don't know many people, when I was a kid, I knew a lot of people that went to church all the time. - Yeah. - I don't know many people at all that do now. And I think people actually sort of, there's more of a dependence on self and more of a like, well, I guess I'm gonna have to do this on my own sort of thing. - Well, I guess now it's a good time to talk about it 'cause you kind of come onto it quite naturally. - Apparently like church tendencies are steadily rising again. - I find that fascinating, don't you? - Yeah, I mean, part of it, I think they've, there's sort of like something like trendy churches that have come along. - Right. - If I rebranded kind of Christianity is in like, it's not just the old like, let's go and listen to the vicar and the Latin. - Yeah, Mr. Kipling's stuff. So there's trendy churches. - You must. - You know what I mean? Like that kind of like-- - Tasty, good night, Mr. Tom vibe. - Yeah, but I do wonder if, like we're talking about with things being cyclical, that if we're in a kind of inflection point at the moment, you know, the world is a very uncertain place. I think the internet, social media has held up this, has given us a portal, hasn't it, into seeing a lot more of the world than I think we ever have before. And I don't think we all like it very much. I don't think we like the constant noise. I don't think we like really, I don't think it's healthy for us to be exposed to as much as we are constantly. And I do, I think maybe people are trying to seek refuge in different ways. I mean, if there is any, I will be interested to know if there is anybody listening who has refound their faith or has found faith and haven't previously had it. - Particularly at a later point as well. If you're not someone that's had it through childhood or had it a religious experience through childhood. - Yeah. - They send us a message because, yeah, 'cause I mean, I went to like, I went to a church of England primary school. My, neither my mum or dad were particular, I think my mum would probably say she's a Christian, but she doesn't go to church or anything like that. And I would, whenever I'd visit my grand up north, which she'd take us to church on Christmas or an Easter if we were there. But I'm not, you know, I'm not somebody that believes in like organised religion, but then equally, I would say, and this, you know, is maybe part of that as a nurture thing. But I've always been, I've always still, I would sound like Gnostic. I'm definitely not, I'm not an atheist. - No, not many of it, I would certainly not, I would certainly not want to put that label on myself. - No. - Because I don't, I think there is a real, you have to go this so far into black and white in order to say, I am an atheist. I know that there is nothing happening. Interesting, like some stats here. So Christianity in the UK, still the biggest sort of group, 46%. No religion is 37%. So people that would be the atheist or Gnostic, then it's Muslim 6.5, Hindu 1.7, did an answer of 6%. So that was on the 2021 census. So that's really fascinating, but 29% of the people who identified as Christian in 2021, are 65 or older. - Interesting. - So that does definitely tell you something, doesn't it, in terms of that being a real split, that's absolutely fascinating. But do, yeah, do get in touch, because if you're someone who's like found it at a later time, I'd be really intrigued to know what the, what the things are that naturally move you into that place in your life, or perhaps make you want to go back to... - What's the religion, 12 year old girl in your life who got possessed by a demon? - That was possessed by the ghost of Gung, Dave Benson, Philip. - Yeah. - Some of the bombing is like, it's so green, it's unbelievable. - P-Soup, P-Soup. - Is that where it was? - P-Soup, yeah. - They didn't look like mushy peas. - They created, well, the guy, so there's the guy, I forget his name as well, the visual effects guy, he was basically tasked with creating this thing that could fire out the, fire out the Gung. So they essentially built like a false neck. So they built a false neck that a tube could be fed up and then placed across the mouth. So it's like... - It drizzles out, doesn't it? - Yeah, so it's like they built a false neck and false cheeks around the mouth that, basically, you know, it hides the fact that there's a pipe there. But then what they did anyway, even back in the '70s, this isn't even on the remastering, they ended up just rotoscoping in the green stick, where it wasn't shooting out anyway, 'cause it didn't like how it looked, they said it sprayed out and they wanted it to be like a shoot, if you like. - That's so cool, though. - I love it, he was a bit gutted about it. - I love that they did all the mechanics and had this whole kind of like mechanical structure to try and make it happen. - 'Cause I know we've gone quite deep on this, but should we, I mean, can I give you... Just because this stuff's always quite interesting, right? - It's gone. Part, we're talking about the legacy of The Exorcist. One of the big things about The Exorcist that we haven't touched on is that a lot of kind of freaky stuff happened on set and it's definitely added to, you know, we've had in later years, we've had things like The Blair Witch Project, right? Where there was a lot of talk about that. Is it real? Is it not? Is it found footage? And that added to the hype of the film. So there was a lot around The Exorcist that people, to this day, I think, are fairly unsure how much of it is real and to, you know, it's like a PR thing to get people to come and watch this scary film and how much of it was some weird things that happened on set. So, I mean, one of the, here's some of the notable sort of things that happened. I mean, one of the big, big ones is that the majority of the set, one evening, basically, the majority of the set was destroyed in a fire. They had this, they had a catastrophe where the majority of the set was set on fire, aside for Reagan's bedroom, which kind of in unexplained fashion just was stood standing when they got to the set the next day after most of it had all burnt down. - With no sign of any electrical fault, with no sign of anything that haven't been set on fire or no one entering the premises either. - No, and that delayed production by a couple of months or so as I had to rebuild everything, which is kind of funny. There were several deaths during the production. And it seems to be in that they do this quite well on the Kermit documentary, it depends who you ask. They seem to give you a different answers to how many deaths were actually associated with this. But several crew members or family members passed away during or shortly after filming. Notably, Jack McGowan, who played Burke Dennings. - Do you know what she did? - He died at the flu. There was a bit of an outbreak in the UK again, apparently, and he got it there. Actor, the siliki Malialos, apologies to the pronunciation, who played father, Caris's mother, also passed away before the film was actually released. And two actors who had small roles in the film. So Linda Blair's grandfather and the night watchman on set all died during production. I think quite unfortunate. I think there was another story I've read as well that somebody on the cruise baby actually dies. Just, you know, it's kind of miserable, isn't it? I mean, I think you liked Max Vonsido had something quite interesting to say on this, didn't they? - Yeah, he just sort of said in his wonderful sort of European accent. It's like two weeks, people don't die. When you film for a long time, some things will happen. Such a great way of putting it. Some things will happen. The whole place will get set on fire and nine people will kick it. - One of the more sort of eerie ones that I think you can probably explain in a certain logical way is that an increasing amount of the cast and crew started to say that they felt unnerved on set. They actually felt that there was some sort of a presence there. - Didn't he ask, didn't William freakin ask a priest to come down and exercise the set? - Yeah, he did. - A wild. - But I mean, I think one might explain that by everybody's in this kind of collective mania. They're working on this intense, you know, you'd be, imagine being on a shoot, this intense where there's delays, there's a fire, there's deaths like shoots as stressful as it is. When you're on this and you know the subject matters about the occult and stuff, it probably would give people the chills a bit. - You start to get, maybe not confirmation bias, but you start to, start to read into everything and it can kind of spread. I do think that's, like I was saying to anyone, you, with film often you can, you, what you bring to the film is a lot of the time the experience you'll have with it. And you can definitely amount like, you worked on enough sets to know that once something takes hold of a group of people, it can really, really shift the way people think. - But you know, so the actor, so William O'Malley, who actually just passed away last year, I've just seen him now. He played Father Dyer, so he was like, Father Carris is like, you know, he's the one that read him this last rights and everything at the end of the film. He was actually, he was a priest in real life as well. - Oh, was he the one that they asked to exercise set? Did you guys hear it, yeah? - I don't know yet, but he acted as a type of like, faith consultant on set, at least. - Right, that's so interesting. - I know that he did that, so which is kind of interesting. And there was just a lot of, I mean, there were a few things like, you know, technical malfunctions and that type of stuff. But again, I think you ask anybody on any film set have you had technical malfunctions? And they would all say yes. - That's looked like they fully bought in though, doesn't it, to a lot of that stuff? - Yeah, a lot of people in the set looked quite bought in. - Yeah, and I mean, like people were losing their minds in the cinema as well. The general public was bought in. There were people passing out. I think somebody had a heart attack watching it. There were people being sick. There was, you know, it sounds like it was kind of bedlam in some, in some other screens of the film, so. - It's so cool 'cause that you'd never do that now. You just would never get that cut through now. It's just amazing, like, so. - Here's a question to you. Do you think we are too desensitized now as a society? Or do you think there's any type of film or anything at all that you could put on a main, and I'm talking, you know, 20th Century Fox, Warner Brothers, whatever, mainstream big blockbuster movie that would genuinely have people losing their minds a bit? - No, because of what we spoke about earlier on, because I think the idea of something growing, it needs to be to be prohibited. You're not allowed to go and see it in order for it to gain that cult status. - I can remember they're being filmed when we were young, when we were in school, they'd be like, "Oh, film's banned, film's banned, "no one's allowed to watch it." I can't remember, was there a film could I spit on your grave or something like that? And it was like, "Oh, do you ever hear of Cannibal Holocaust?" - I rings a bell. - That's one of the big ones that's been, I mean, that actually, I think that actually got, like, banned because it has, it's got footage of people actually killing animals in the film. So that's why it's been, it's been, it got banned, but it's very bloodthirsty, very bizarre. - But doesn't it show you that, that what's left to shock you, put quite a lot of stuff in, weirdly enough, watching Saving Private Ryan, some of the stuff in that that was so close to the bone, I think real stuff now is kind of the closest thing to shocking, isn't it? Like, as opposed to fantastical stuff, what do you think? I can't imagine there is, I mean, it could be the parameters of my imagination, but I can't think of too many things that would actually, it would mean that people would, that it would cut through on that level. - No, 'cause I can't think of any real frontiers that, you know, people haven't gone through, I mean, we've had depictions of even things like, you know, Peter Philly and everything on screen and stuff like it. - We've done all the true crime stuff, haven't we? - Yeah. - Onto the whole, I mean, there was, the film, Room, wasn't there, which was like really shocking and grotesque and yet. - Was that like the Brie Larson, like Fritz thing, yeah. - Yeah, and that was really frightening, but nowhere near the cut through. Does that mean that this film's aged well? - I do, I think in some respects it has, I still think there's like a universality to some of the storytelling and everything, but like you say, I think some of the, some of the gore, some of the sensibilities of it are a bit dated now where they almost seem kind of funny as opposed to scary or disturbing. - Yeah. - Like I say, I think producer Purdy called it cringe. - I think if you didn't think, if you didn't stop, it's one of my favorite, well, one of, if not my favorite films of all times, Blade Runner. - Yeah. - And I think you, if you've got a 18 year old to sit and watch Blade Runner now, I think they probably sit in me like, what's that? Like, it doesn't really do much to me. So it's almost like you need to do the work to be able to enjoy the film. - Yeah. - You know, you almost have to do the dig in. - It just, things just further, I saw a very interesting conversation actually, I was just sort of, you know, going down, sort of film Twitter, rabbit holes earlier, and it was somebody talking about how she had shown her kid's airplane, and she said that she was cackling, and they were just sat there stony face like, "Mum, what the hell, this is awful." Like, "What the hell are you showing us?" And then she was suddenly like, she said that she suddenly had this memory of like, "Oh my God, it's reminding me exactly of." And I think she was saying like her grandfather or somebody had shown her like an old Buster Keaton or something comedy film. And at the time she was like, and she said, she remembers her grandfather like howling at this like 1930s, whatever comedy film in the 70s. And she was just like, "This is what the hell? "How is he funny?" She's like, "Oh my God, that's me now." Like, that's me. - Yeah, it's just frightening, isn't it? - Yeah. - So scary. But I do think there's a lot of, I think that it provides the framework for a lot of modern day horror as well. I mean, how many films do we do last year that you could easily have just kind of picked immediately? Like, that's next to the X's. - It reburth the genre, mate. It completely looked, after this, you know, it was open season for like the grotesque that we are up to now. So much so that we're so desensitized to it. The funny thing is the scariest films now are the ones that are massively scaled back. It's not the overdoing of the blood and the guts and all that stuff anymore. It's the more darker cycle. We've gone through this phase now of what they call elevated horror, which is like, we're not gonna have somebody chasing people around with an axe and blood and guts spilling out everywhere. We're gonna have movies like The Babadook. We're gonna have movies like Hereditary, which dabble on very human themes and package them up in a horror type way, but it's deeply psychological. They try and pringle on those more primal things in our brain that scare us, if you like, as opposed to just being visceral with it all. But I think both ways the X's has opened up. It paved the way for filmmakers still to this day to do it. And I think to get a bit stuffy about it, I think in some ways you have to respect the film for that and you have to respect the filmmakers for being as daring as they were to do what they did. And to like you say, if you drop the cynicism a bit, I think maybe when you are 18 years old, you probably would look at this and think, "What a load of crap." As I probably think I did when I first watched this, as you do get older, you can just kind of appreciate things on a different level, can't you, you know? I think it's comedy. Comedy is the one that's the hardest one to age. It really is. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - 'Cause think about it, mate. One day, one day, you might be showing someone peep show, or... - Ah, mate. - Or the office. And they're gonna be like... - Can already feel it happening. - This is so bad. - I can already feel it happening to me. Well, because the thing, something like the office, the reason why it was so unbelievably funny is because you had to commute to this place where for nine hours, you were a weird version of yourself that you weren't anywhere else. - Yeah. - And that doesn't exist anymore. Like, that just doesn't exist in the way. So it's too impossible for people to kind of comprehend, you know? And who's your MVP? - Oh, that's a tough one, isn't it? I think it's a tough one for this one. - I'm gonna, in my mind, I think it's Linda Blair's Reagan because she was 12. Like, it's unbelievable. Something, the scene where she comes downstairs and does the scene where she says you're gonna die. - Yeah. - You're haunting. It's really horrifying. - It's haunting. - Yeah, I'll go over here, I'll go over here. Well, she got Mr. Howdy, the ghost, doesn't she, at the start? - Yeah, yeah. - That's horrible. - That is, well, yeah, absolutely, yeah. A really strong start to scary season. - Fine, why not walk around, mate? - I would say I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go 50-50. Fine wine, in terms of what it did to the genre, some of the stuff in it, like you said, some of the kind of effects of aged really badly. - Do you know what hasn't aged really badly, though? - Is Max Moncito, he was only like 43, 44. - Incredible, they put a load of makeup on him, didn't they? - Yeah, the age and prosthetics on that are unbelievable. - Incredible, like, the only thing that is interested me with that is there was something at the beginning where there was a bit of an inconsistency, where I was like, has he freed that spirit and has aged him? Like, 'cause there was one scene where he looked really young and then suddenly looked really old and I was like, what's happened there then? But other than that, he looked amazing. He's 90 now, isn't he? Still alive. - Is he still going? - Yeah. - Yeah, 90 years old. - Fair blazer. He, no, no, he's gone, though, 2020. - Oh, no, oh, that's so sad. 'Cause I looked at that today and I was like, oh, fantastic, he's 19 years old. 2020. - Oh, sad. Given that the big one, 'cause I was watching the interviews with him and I was like, wow, how amazing that he managed to keep going on this time. And he wanted-- - There you go, bro. - Yeah. - Oh, that's sad. Brought him back to life for five minutes. - So, where are you taking as an expert now? - So I'm gonna stay in 1973. - Oh, really, wow. - Yeah. - This is a film I've been wanting to do for ages, but now it's the right time to do it. - 1973. - Yeah. I'll give you another hint. Involves a Bond girl. - British film. - Yup. - Oh, I know where you're going. - Involves a Bond baddie and a wizard. - Are we going to Summer's Isle? - We're going to the Wicker Man. (laughing) - Mate, it's one of my favorite films. - I love it and I hate it at the same time and it scares the life out of me. - Like 1970s, British folk horror is like, it's peak cinema for me, peak cinema. - I watched the clip from it the other day and it made me shit my pants. I was like, I'm gonna do it. That'd be worth it. - Was it the masks over the wall? - Yeah, it was when he goes and he thinks he's like being led away and then they just lead him to the top of the hill. And everyone's sorry. And the little cuts to the different faces and stuff. - Right, yeah, I'm ready to shit myself all over again. - Oh, I love it. - And Be Wavy Pod on the social channels. See you all next week. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) You [BLANK_AUDIO]