VeeDads

@mistirmesser REVISITED - Rob - Showing Up with Kindness and Being the Bigger Person in Parenting

ORIGINALLY RELEASED APRIL 2024

In this re-released conversation with @mistirmesser, Rob, - Ryan Turner explores the intricate dynamics of parenting, community, and personal growth. They both reflect on the connections formed through shared experiences, the challenges of raising children, and the importance of gratitude and kindness. The discussion delves into the influence of childhood experiences on parenting styles, the complexities of balancing work and family life, and the significance of communication and resilience in navigating the ups and downs of parenthood. Ultimately, Rob emphasizes the value of being present and supportive as a parent, aiming to be a Hall of Fame dad while fostering a nurturing environment for his children.

Takeaways from the conversation with Rob:

We are all connected in our parenting journeys.
Building deeper connections can lead to meaningful insights.
Parenting is a continuous learning experience.
Gratitude plays a crucial role in parenting.
Understanding our childhood shapes our parenting style.
Communication is key in navigating family dynamics.
Balancing work and family is a common challenge.
Being present is essential for effective parenting.
Resilience helps us overcome parenting obstacles.
Community support enhances the parenting experience.

Jump to topics:

00:00 Connecting Through Parenting and Community

03:10 The Journey of Parenthood

05:56 Navigating Challenges of Parenting

09:10 The Influence of Gratitude and Kindness

11:54 Reflections on Childhood and Parenting

15:00 Understanding Parental Relationships

17:59 The Complexity of Parenting Dynamics

20:50 The Role of Communication in Parenting

23:53 Finding Balance Between Work and Family

27:01 The Importance of Being Present

29:51 Lessons from the Past

33:07 The Impact of Personal Experiences on Parenting

35:55 The Role of Resilience in Parenting

39:11 Becoming a Hall of Fame Dad

42:03 The Power of Role Models

44:47 Overcoming Parenting Challenges

47:58 The Importance of Community Support

50:58 Embracing the Journey of Parenthood

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Feel free to join us. Catch replays of the live discussion on the VeeDads podcast through Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

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Ryan Turner

ryanturner@foodisfuelnyc.com

Broadcast on:: 09 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

Yup. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you guys doing an awesome job. You know, we are, I think we're excited. I think that, I think we've just, it's starting to kind of just help uncover something that we don't really know what it is just yet, but there is something more, you know, just connecting people than I think like just the typical struggles of parenting and just like money in like the web three space or, you know, just characters or whatever else is going on. I think that, you know, this is, I think we're all connected in a certain way of something in our life. And so I don't want to like overplay it and I don't want to like make it something and it's not, but I do feel as if a lot of us, you know, have these overlaps, which is pretty awesome. Um, sure. Have you, have you found that by any chance because you're, because you're having these conversations too. As far as just kind of peeling back layers that I didn't expect to be there. Yeah, like where maybe there is an overlap with a lot of people that you're kind of talking with. Yeah, I mean, we're all human beings, right? We're all, we're all going through the same things at one, at one point or another. But I think magic, you know, I, and this is not something I intended for when I set out to do the podcast, you know, you start out to do something for one, two, five reasons, but just the blocking off time to just connect with someone at a one to one level, like just that in of itself, forget anything else, but just to, you know, a lot can happen in an hour or half hour, um, you know, if you set up the right environment, whether virtually or IRL and just the, the deeper connection I have with someone after is fantastic. So yeah, I mean, there's, you know, when you dig deep for, for now, you can find a lot of common ground. You can find a lot of overlap. You're going to find a lot of interesting stories and, um, you know, opportunities to reflect on your own life, um, based on how someone else, you know, handled the situation. So yeah, I mean, in short, there's, there's definitely, it's definitely been an unbelievable exercise and that there's a lot, especially within this community, because people are tend to be more open, people tend to be more, uh, you know, just seeing the world with a glass half full versus the alternative. Yeah, I think that that I, I think you're right is that where you, and I was talking to someone about this recently about just kind of coming in at a certain baseline, like you're not coming in with people that are like overly cynical. I was, I was actually talking with my father-in-law about this and he was like, online. He's like, what do you mean? You're like talking to other dads like, just go play darts and I'm like, all right, you're not the guy to be talking to you right now. Um, and so, uh, you know, some people just don't really get it. And obviously he's old. That wouldn't be like our, our kind of person. Um, but yeah, there definitely is I think something that's overlapping all of us now. One thing that I was having a recent conversation on here with someone and I felt like we were getting into like the background of, I guess, like how they got into V friends is like, wait a second. This isn't, this isn't V-famp session. So I was like, we got to get into parenting more. And I was like, wow, there, there really is like, there is that overlap of trying to make sure that, you know, I don't, it's not like the story of getting into V friends. It's a story of kind of like pre-V friends for a lot of people that I want to kind of hear about. And before they kind of thought about like web three and all that kind of stuff too. And so there, there are some conversations where I'm like, we hold on, I got to make sure that I'm kind of like putting that to the side because that's not what we really want here. Um, obviously open to hearing it. But about parents, I mean, how many people are you really coming across that are parents in a lot of your conversations? Um, it's tough to quantify, but I, I mean, I'd, I'd throw roughly out at least half, um, and it's just another, it's just another level of, of camaraderie, um, you know, and being, you know, I'm still, I'm only, I'm only 37. I feel like I have a lot of hours to be logged, but you know, I, in some situations on the senior, like, you know, Daniel, uh, Daniel Donair from the team was on and he had just told me out, you know, off, off camera that he and his wife were about to have their second. So we got to jam on that because like, you know, I, I, we jump from one, we, well, we jump from one to three. So I felt like it's nice to be in that, you know, um, seat where I could, you know, give advice or share what I, you know, how that season was for me. So, um, those, those little moments are cool, but, uh, yeah, I mean, at least half. I mean, this is, and it might be that like, you know, I forget what the, the psychological term is, but, you know, when you, when you buy a Mercedes, that's all you see on the road is Mercedes, like, now that I'm a parent, you know, now that there's more content like you guys are putting out, like, we've seen more parents out there. Um, and is that an algorithm or is that just where they always there? I don't know. Uh, yeah, that's an interesting point. I, but I mean, I think I had that same realization where like I would send someone a card and then they would send a message back and my kid loves it. Oh, your parent had bigger parents or, you know, they would post a video and then their kid would kind of come into the frame, like, Oh, God. Okay. Yeah. And then remember for me, I was like, first of all, how old are most of us? And I think when someone took that poll, I was like, okay. So I think that we have an older, um, you know, cohort here and of anything else. And so, and then once I was like, okay, we're all parents. Looks like we're all kind of like here for a certain reason, and it was definitely interesting. Um, but yeah, it's been, it's been fun to realize that you just mentioned going from one to three, what, what is going on with your guy's life right now? I know that you still have right your twins are young. Our twins just turned one. So we have a five year old and our twin boy, five year old boy, uh, Finn and our twins just turned one at the end of February. So I mean, there's no way to beat around it. Like we're just in it. Like we have been for a long time and it's like some days are just like survival mode, like keeping our head above water. Once, you know, I've been back and forth over the past few years between, you know, working remotely, like doing the whole web three thing, stringing a whole bunch of gigs together. And then this year I went back to working out of the house in a traditional teaching job, which is, you know, has its own issues of its own. But yeah, it's just been a, it's been learning a lot about, you know, caring for three kids. And then, you know, the five year old, this was his first year in kindergarten. And then it's like dealing with marriage for the first time with all these different dynamics, um, you know, Chelsea's home, my wife Chelsea's at home with them. So there's, there's a lot going on and, you know, you're learning about how to do it on the go because there's, you know, there's no real handbook and you just do the best you can and we're learning a lot about ourselves every day and, um, it's, it's been a lot, but like where it's, you know, thank, I'm just so thankful to be in this ecosystem, like, to put everything in gratitude, like stand on that first, uh, because so many people. And we've like, we've been through the ringer as far as, um, you know, uh, pregnancies that end awfully. Uh, so like we, we know how great we have it, uh, and we see all the stories for people that would trade with us in a heartbeat. So like I, I tried not to dwell if, you know, we're too tired or like, you know, we have to find money to pay this bill or whatever, um, like we're, we're so incredibly blessed. So we're just, we just go. We just go. And you know, this family, this V friends thing just fuels us and the people in it. I mean, I know you guys need the fuel just because of the kids, but then also these late night hours that you guys were screaming as well. Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough, but it's like, it's, it's a real like privilege because like, you know, you, you know, take, you know, you're, you're posting these, these notes, these beautiful notes that you leave for, for your daughter and like, it's, it's touching people and like you probably don't even know the half of it of someone seeing the notes that like they need to see it or they're giving or they're fueling their day by saying you're no, and they're injecting that into their kid or, you know, the kid that they pick up, like the neighbor's kid, like, and it, it's going to take you a lot of time and a lot of cyclists that like really understand your influence. So, um, they have people just need it and it just, it, it, I, the more time we spend here and it's only been what, like, we're going on three years, like I, the more grateful I am to have found this place and, you know, stumbling on Gary's content and just the relationships, um, that we've been privileged to be able to build. It's, it's fascinating. So that's you. It is. It is self. Yeah. I think. Shay is that sound. Like, it does sound like so, like, poofoo, but like it's just the truth. Hey, man, the name of my, of my business is food is fuel NYC. So I play off of that. Right. Right. Uh, but thank you so much for saying that about notes. I think sometimes I, I don't realize what it could be doing for someone. There's a little bit of me that wants to say, like, this sounds harsh, but I'm like, I don't really care because it is for my daughter, but at the same time, you know, I do see some of the people kind of like mentioning, you know, some things back or reposting. Um, I do know that, like, you know, starting to kind of bring the characters into some of those notes have been kind of fun too, but it's been very meditative for me. It's kind of giving me a new routine in the morning to kind of think things through. What is she going through? It's a message that I can give what are other messages that I've, I've seen before and just kind of relate it to her more, which has definitely been good. Um, with I'm trying not to say on as much one of the past episodes, it was just on everywhere. Oh. It's all the time. I'm the, I'm the, I'm master. Someone said, someone said it shows like intelligence. I'm like, all right. Done. I heard swearing shows intelligence all the time instead. So I do know who I think the most intelligent people in the world are. I think really good comedians, people who know how to play off a crowd off certain topics. I, I still look up to comedians who can get on stage and do that and like play off of those things so quickly. I always think that I want to come back though, not, not, not to get too far off track. You mentioned, um, about like gratitude before and you're obviously bringing some, some messaging that's coming through with, uh, with V friends and I think that's really good. Was this messaging that you had in your, in your head before? Cause you were a teacher, you are, you are a teacher. Do you think that you had all of this in your brain ready to kind of give other kids before V friends? I do. Um, I think going back to like where that first came from. I'm not, I'm not totally sure, but it was probably my grandfather. My grandfather was a huge influence and he was just, uh, the kindest person ever and he just had his whole framework was just be kind to everyone. Just be, just be nice. Don't be greedy and just be nice, like as simple as that. And he, I, you know, the, I wish I had got to spend more time with him, but, uh, the time I do remember as a kid when you're just kind of soaking up so many, uh, memories and experiences and just logging them in your, in your files, um, you know, he was the way he interacted with everyone, whether it was a, a waiter or, uh, you know, a cashier, he was just so kind to everyone. So that really stuck with me. And when I became a teacher, I, I really, I had that like, you know, everything that Gary preaches about like school, like didn't, school wasn't built for him and school's not built for anyone. Like I was a terrible student. I just kind of went through the motions and I had that perspective of having that life as a student, but also being able to naturally just connect with kids and people. So I, I understood that like that it doesn't matter if they learn multiplication by eight or nine, like they need to feel like they matter and they need to feel, uh, empowered to go out and be the best person that they can be. And you know, that, all of that starts with, you know, believing yourself, understanding that you matter, be kind to yourself and others. So that was like my framework ever since the first, uh, year of teaching. Like my, on the board, my whole thing was, you know, be better than you were yesterday. And all of our rules were just, were expectations to be kind to everyone. Uh, so that, that was my framework from day one. So V friends, I just really scooped it up and, uh, just it elevated everything and made me just maybe rethink some of my verbiage of how I articulate things. But it, it just totally aligned. So yeah, it's, it's definitely always been a part of me, um, because, you know, you're not going to find too many people to argue that like they, everything that is taught in school matters. Uh, so like this, this soft skill stuff, like it really does matter and it's, uh, kids need it now more than ever with another cliche. Now they're all good cliches because they all, they all end up resonating. You kind of went to your, your grandfather quickly, just like with the kindness and everything there. Uh, you mentioned kind of not being the greatest student in school. Um, what was going on with your parents during that time? I mean, was this something where like your parents also preached kindness? I don't know whose father this was that you're kind of talking about, but did that kind of trickle down into them? And then it kind of went to you or, you know, were you looking for more of a, um, a leader in your life, uh, potentially. So my, my pretty much got raised on a, with the single family household, single parent household. My mom pretty much raised my two younger sisters and I, but in a lot of the instances, we just kind of raised ourselves and I was like the head of the household. Um, so you were, you were the oldest? Correct. You were wrecked. I never was really strong or had a strong relationship with my dad. They divorced when I was probably, I want to say 10 or 11 and we had nannies and things to help because at the, they were both working. Um, and my mom, you know, she did all she could, she was a nurse. She worked double triple shifts just to like, you know, we were, for what it was, we were very spoiled. You know, she worked very hard to give us the life that, and the house and the neighborhood that she, she wanted to, that she always had laid out for us. And you know, she worked herself to the, to the bone where she didn't have a life. And now like, you know, she's still paying for a lot of it with, with health issues. Um, so I, I learned hard work. You know, she's, she's a kind woman, but not really kind to herself. Um, and I learned hard work from her, work hard for my dad, um, but as far as being kind, like, yeah, I came from my grandfather, um, because he, you know, he was in another part of his life when he got to interact with us and he, um, you know, he just shared his wisdom and he lived it too. So, uh, always had a great relationship and you know, he was the, probably that father figure in my life. He definitely was that father figure in my life. Um, and you know, as a father now, I just try to, you know, remember the good, the good messages, the, what I want to emulate, what I want to see my kids extract from me. And you know, tell them about the other side too, because that's important. And you know, just give them the skills to, to be even better than me. And you know, I, I think what I'm, I came from a family, you know, my parents didn't divorce. I remember I'd looked at my parents at one point and asked my mom, why aren't, why aren't you guys divorced? Just because of the interactions they would have with each other. And would you be happier if you weren't here? I mean, you talk about your families across the country, like, why don't you go to your family and be happy? Why can't we all just be a happier person? And if you're in a, like, I never, I never saw a happy marriage on, on my parents side, but I, I saw an, an unhappy marriage stay together. And sometimes I don't know if that was a, if that was for good or worse. And sometimes I think it actually could have been worse. So, you know, I think it's, I, I like when people kind of bring up this, you know, what their childhood was kind of about, how it's, it's not a broken home because I'm finding it more that it's just, it's a normal thing. A lot of people were in the same position and their parents were going through a lot. And if I can, I think as we go through parenting, even if I have a rolled, I have a seven-year-old, I have a three-year-old too, you have a younger, but I think at this point in my life, I think I'm realizing, like, yeah, they were having a really hard time. They were going through a lot, because I feel like I'm going through a lot, whether it's like finding passion and following that passion and trying to kind of balance all, all that kind of stuff. Do you think as you're kind of going deeper into parenting right now that you're finding a little bit more forgiveness for any of your parents, I don't even know if you're holding any resentment, but is there anything that you're understanding that maybe they were going through then that you kind of have a better understanding of now? Totally. Definitely, you just see things from a whole different perspective. So I totally, you know, think back to some, you know, you just, when you're a teenager, you say things that you wish you could take back. You know, I definitely had a lot of spoils, like, you know, I said my mom, it was a single parent household, but like she worked and, you know, for lack of any other term, we were spoiled. Like, I was the, you know, how Gary says the host-the-party kid, like, parents were never home and just host-the-party, like, I was that guy who had the popularity elevated because like, I could host all the parties and sleepovers and all of the things, and it definitely took that for granted of like, what that entailed from like a work standpoint and a parenting standpoint. Now, I'm like, have a lot of empathy for that, but also like, you know, did my sister and I were talking and it's like, I did, was that to replace, like, did she work because she didn't want to put in the hard work parenting, like, that other work outside was that easier than like, actually being there for us. So my sister dropped that bomb and I was like, whoa, like, that's really interesting to like, whether other underlying things behind it, now that we like, get older and start having different conversations and see different behaviors. So that's a whole other ball. That's a whole other ball of whack. Hey, Rob. Can, are you okay if we just say there for a second? Yeah. Because I think that's a really hard thing in terms of parenting right now. We want to succeed. We want to follow passions. Now, what you tell me if I got this right, your sister kind of asked you if your mom was working so much because she didn't want a parent. As much right? Is that what you're asking? Yeah. Or what is what you said? Yeah, which is, which is definitely a hard pill to swallow, but at the same time, like, you know, as kids, we put our parents on this pedestal that can do no wrong. But as we're going through the motions now, like, we understand like, there's no superpower to it. Like, we're just still regular people. Well, you know, it is a superpower, so to speak, but we're just regular people that make mistakes and that have real hang ups, emotional hang ups. So yeah, and we didn't like, this is very recent, but I thought I was pertinent to the conversation because it's, you see your parents in a whole different way when you're going through parenthood, right? So it's a conversation. I'm still like unpacking my head. I'm thinking about it because, you know, and I think this is a conversation that comes up here a lot like being, especially since this is so easy to work from, right? We can work any time we want. So it's, is it subconsciously? Is it consciously choosing this over that? Because parenting's very hard, parenting's very hard and it's very, it's very sexy to say like, Hey, like, look at me, I'm being a kick ass parent, but it's, it's very hard. And no one, no one prepares you for it, especially since, you know, when you have conversations like this, everyone can talk about, you know, all the mistakes our parents made. So, you know, there's a, I'm sure there's a lot of people that are consciously working and I do it all the time, like even just, you know, organized, I could choose to organize some cards or, you know, clean up the kitchen versus sitting down next to my kid watching his show or playing his game. And I, you know, it's, it's just reps. It's practice to get yourself out of, out of that mindset and also like not judge yourself. So, it's, it's a wild game. It really is, right? Yeah, man. And you know, I think sometimes these conversations are hard because there's, there's not a linear thing to kind of go from one thing to the next, you're like, Well, I wonder why it was that way. And we're never going to know. Right. We're never going to know why your mom was feeling that way or if it was true or whatever's going on because you can go the other direction if you, I feel bad we're keeping you in like sun right now. I don't know. No, I know. I thought about moving. It's a hot, heavy conversation. But yeah, move it you have to. But with, with that, I mean, I feel that sometimes too. And especially now kind of like with different passions, like even with this V-friend stuff and like this podcast and, you know, working on things like working, I work very, very close with blaze. So we're always kind of having conversations like dropping our, you know, our ideas and our thoughts, all the kind of stuff too. Because it's like it might not be that I'm not good at parenting, but in the moment, I'm so into what that next thing is because I think this is the important thing. If I keep working, I'm going to provide for my kids that much more and I'm going to keep showing up as a happier person if I keep doing the things that I'm passionate about. And so I always like the whole, you know, work life balance thing, like however it's said, I don't love it as much. I think the harder thing is just like the passion and family balance. I have a hard time balancing like the passions that we kind of want to bring into our family. I'm like, but it's just not there yet. I want to bring my family in. I want to have more money maybe coming from that. I want to be able to have more time and want them to enjoy it too. So it's really hard. I think that's what I'm seeing a lot is like a parent as well. But if you were to ask your mom this question, what do you think your mom would say? Do you think there's something there that I think you might know what the answer could be? I think I think it's exactly exactly that. Just I wanted to work hard for your, for you to have a great life, to go to live in that town, to be on the call of this act, to have a tennis court in your backyard. Like crazy, crazy stuff to have that life at the same time, like, okay, like we're here, we have it, like now what? So I think you do that for so long and you keep telling yourself that story after there's no other, like, what comes next, like we have all of that. Now what, like that's, that's really like the only chapter. And you know, I keep on bringing, I know the audience, so I'm keeping bringing Gary into the mix. Like, it's that concept of like, okay, it's the day you buy the Jets. You bought the Jets, great, like, now what? So I, that would be, that would be kind of the question, like, did you ever get to that point where like, you felt like we had the life, that might be a good exercise. Do you find, because I know you didn't talk about your dad that much and maybe why he wasn't there as much or anything like that, do you think you have the same struggles happening now or do you think you have a better understanding of maybe how not to kind of fall into what we can call some of those traps that you've lived it? Do you think that you're stopping yourself from going in that direction? I feel, I feel like I'm much more aware, totally, and I try to stop myself and, and it's just a, a matter of, of prioritizing, like, you know, in my, in my ex bio, my, my number one thing is striving to become a Hall of Fame dad. One because like, that's really, and I look back, you know, I used to do the Tony Robbins things, I've been a lot of personal development over the years and like, looking back, it's like being good dad has always been number one, like, that's my through line, and so I want to stay true to that and that's how I really feel. So I have gotten better at auditing, like, okay, like, is this on track to what I want to be? Like, I, I wanted everything you just said, I want to earn all the money and provide them a great life, but at the same time, like, that could be exactly what my mom was saying, and then, you know, she was, she worked herself to the point where she couldn't even, you know, be there. And I'm, I'm probably, I might be painting a unfair picture in some circumstances because she did our best to go to games and all that stuff, but, you know, in the, in the macro conversation, you know, she just overworked herself, and it's hard to do both. It's hard to get that balance and that's maybe the punchline of the whole conversation. Yeah. I think it's also not apples to apples having two parents, you know, versus one parent as well. Is there, with your, with your dad not being there, I mean, you know, would you, I'm assuming you wouldn't describe your dad as, you know, that All Star, you know, Hall of Fame parent. Do you think there's things that you're, that you're trying to do to actively not be what your dad was? Is that, are you working against that? Uh, totally. I think, you know, my dad, my dad had a few marriages. My mom was just third, um, my dad, my dad, uh, my dad passed away where are we now, five years ago now, so, um, you know, it would have been, I probably don't think about it as much as I should, but just to see where the trajectory would have been so deep into fatherhood myself, um, with that relationship. But for him, when I think back it, I, I lean more towards the, um, my husband side, you know, I think he, he just kind of, like his, I think looking back his track record, he just wanted someone, you know, and, and didn't really, I think when the going that got tough, maybe it didn't put in all the work that you could have and just kind of bounced from one thing to the next. And uh, yeah, I just, I just think from a, from a husband side, uh, you know, you, you just got to put in more work, like it's marriage's work, kids make it more complicated, um, and then, comma, like, sure, I know a lot of the mistakes not to make, so I try not to make them. If we're talking about, you know, face value, yeah, and I like what you're kind of getting at here. I think that, you know, could a father be a more all the same father by showing up more as a husband? I think that there's something to be said there for sure, right? And a single father still be like that father, but I think that our kids definitely I think build a lot or remember a lot from the interactions that they have with, you know, their mother or their father, whoever else, you know, that person is in love with. So I think a, I think the sign of a good father in a lot of instances could be, you know, a great spouse. Yeah, I agree. And I think saying that I think is important because it can make you a better parent and then there's the cycle right there, which I think I remember sometimes because I know that as things get really hard in the home with kids, how short do we become with our spouse? Maybe I don't want to speak for you, but things become harder, right? Things aren't as intimate, things become more objective, things become very sharp. Again, I don't want to speak for you here, but it's definitely something where there's a lot of practice that we need to be giving in to our kids that we also have to give to our spouse. And yeah, I'm actually just speaking openly as I kind of discover this thought and I kind of like this idea of how, you know, I think that a good father needs to understand again how to be that good spouse first. I like where you're coming from, where I think you've seen how not to be. Do you think that makes you a stronger husband today? Yes, but I, and I'm not just saying this because this is being recorded. Like I have a lot of work to do, like if you're not growing, you're dying, right? So I definitely have a lot of work to do. Like I said, like this whole twin thing has really kind of puts the, what am I trying to say? It's almost like, you know, when they put that black light, they shine that black light in a room and like things that things show up, like you didn't know were there. They were there the whole time, but now you're just kind of looking from a different lens. That's kind of like what this last year has done to our marriage and yeah, and a lot of it is like easily, like we just need to communicate this and some of it's like, oh yeah, like we really need to work on that. But it's, you know, that's life, like, you know, going back to my grandfather, like he was married to my grandmother for 60 years, so like that is proof of concept, like something I saw, like, and they didn't get along perfectly all the time, like when I, like they fought all the time, but I think it's, it's how it's what happened after that, like that's the work, that's the, what the magic, the secret sauce, and not just let it linger and really just, you know, go out as a team. Do you think you that you're going through anything right now that no one else is going through in terms of, you know, that black light? It's like, well, the black light's going to show this for me and you don't have to get too much into it. Well, no, I think they're both connected, but, and you get as, you become as vulnerable as you want to right now, but what do you, what do you feel like thing, what do you feel like were the first couple of things that have been uncovered, especially with your twins, and I will also preface this, but my second kid broke me, broke me apart. And it was where, that's where therapy became more intense. That's where I finally got like some sort of ADHD diagnosis because all the cracks that were kind of letting all these different kind of things out. And if not ADHD, just mental health diagnosis and stuff like, the diagnoses and stuff like that, the need to kind of have these outlets like my second kid broke me for how hard she was, but then also how much it's risked the marriage out. What do you, like, I feel like you're at the beginning stages of that process that I kind of went through and I think a lot of people do. Yeah. What's starting to like bubble up? I think just for me, just being a better communicator about my emotions and needs, like, and it makes total sense. Like I mentioned, like I, for all intents and purposes, like was the man of the house for a lot of my young life and I was making sure my sisters were okay. I went into a field where I'm, I'm the head and I'm, I'm the head captain on the ship and I'm in charge of everyone else. You know, I've just been a caregiver just worrying about everyone else for my, for my whole life and I never really didn't have, like I mentioned, or you probably figured out, didn't have a lot of emotional connection as far as like sharing feelings and like deep dive check-ins. I never did therapy or any of that. So like I, I never got reps like sharing my emotions. And I always, the, the default was always like making sure everyone else was okay without, you know, putting on my own mask first. So that's really like bubbled up after like we went over, like overboard with now, now it's, now it's a family of five and the two dogs and the ever-changing job market and like through the roof ambitions with what I want to achieve and build. And then I, I have a wife that is, you know, I talk to a lot of people that have like this nice yin and yang, like this one's the crazy entrepreneur. This one's like doing all the bills and like everything is tidy and nice because it works. We're like the same. Like we're both, we're both cut from the same cloth, which is beautiful at times and sometimes it makes, you know, things that could be easy for someone else, very difficult. So we have that too, when it's like we have all these crazy ambitions, but we have all of this and by the way, we're like fucking exhausted. So it's, yeah, like that's just sharing how I felt. Something that could come so easy for someone was, I just wasn't doing. So that I'm getting better at and working and doing stuff like this helps. So thank you for that. I, I, that idea of navigating feelings and emotions, this is all discovery, kind of figure out again, like where we're kind of overlapping a little bit. Do you feel like your childhood was kind of not fulfilled completely because you had to be the man of the house and all those, do you feel like you missed out on something? I don't. I loved my childhood. I really did. It's amazing. Yeah, like I just, yeah, I don't feel like I was, I've never been certain instances where I was like, you know, like it would have been nice to have like, to have the dad, like at the baseball game and all that, but like, I just, I'm very deep rooted and like, I can't go back. Like, I can only, the best thing I can do right now is to do that for my kids. Like, I've just been programmed so hard. Maybe like if I do some like deep intensive therapy one day, like they'll break me and we'll go down that road and, but I just, I really enjoyed my childhood and I'm so grateful. Like, for all the things I said about my mom, I'm just incredibly grateful that I had such a warm like place that was, it was full of like, I hope I'm not painting the wrong picture, but it just wasn't, it was very different household and a lot of people grew up in because mom was always working. Um, I, so actually I have the same scenario as you, I just happen to have my dad around more who's also a teacher. Again, I mentioned the kind of a marriage, my, my mom was always trying to like, find her passion and she was like, she was very early on in like computers and like she was like, she was someone that I know was like, ahead of the industry for a long time, but I think the industry outpaced her and she started to kind of get really kind of beaten down by not being able to kind of keep up with all that kind of stuff too, but she was out of our home for a lot. I don't have a lot of memories of my mom and you know, she kind of came back into our life as in being around a lot more when I was 13 or something and she was like, well, you know, why aren't, why aren't you going to stay home with me? I was like, because I've learned not to and I'm my own person without you right now. And so I do hold a lot of resentment kind of with her with that, but I also didn't know what those feelings really meant. And so I think when sometimes the parents aren't there, I think it can be hard to navigate the feelings as adults right now and understand, you know, what am I supposed to do with this? Is this a good feeling? Is the bad feeling? Is it something to deal with? Is it not? Sometimes I think with like the boyfriend's characters, I think that it's broken down a lot of that into very individual feelings that we can look at and we can see and there's a tactile sense with a card or, you know, we become that kind of person, I think a lot of people you're trying to talk to, it's like, well, they're your character because you connect with them in a certain way, obviously, right? But I think most people are kind of like attaching to some of these cards and these characters for that reason because they maybe didn't get it from their parents. But I think I love about you because I think a lot of these conversations too sounds like I try not to make it therapy, I don't want it to be, I just want to hear like, learn about someone with the Rs, the parent, what they're doing. That nice soothing voice though, I don't know if that's what it is. But again, I'm not looking to kind of like what you said before, like, break you open. I'm not, I'm not like looking for like a crack and then try to get in there. But what I do love about you, you sound so incredibly grounded for what I think some other people may have fallen apart for. And there's something there, was it your grandfather? Maybe that was at that time, I don't know what it was, maybe it was circles that you kind of came up in, but there's something there that you maybe just have this resiliency about you that you were able to not kind of fall into that challenge. Do you feel that? Do you know that you maybe are a more resilient person than other people could have been? Yeah, I definitely feel that way about myself, you know, and that to circling back to your a couple of questions ago, like, it could have been like to my fault at a certain level because like, you know, all the, you know, job stresses, young teacher, you know, schooling, getting into a job, getting a new job, you know, getting married, like all these stresses, I never really felt too much. Even though like I was at a natural path one day and he's like, "You're stressed." I'm like, "No, I'm not feeling stressed." He's like, "I think you're stressed." He's like, "You've seen your eyes." I'm like, "Oh, okay." So, I mean, he was right, he was right. I just like, processed it differently and I feel like I do have a lot of bandwidth, but now I'm getting to the point, you know, I have 37 with three little kids and like, back to a job that I don't really want to be at for the third time. I'm like, "Oh man, like, okay, maybe I don't have all the answers and can't handle the whole world on my shoulders." A lot of times people become something that they needed when they were a kid, a teacher, I think, first and foremost, would you agree with that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Got it. You're a teacher, you're a provider, head of the household. What are you trying to be for kids that aren't your kids? Not a role model or someone to speak light into them. I've been, it doesn't matter, I've been in the hood where kids are eating two to three meals a day at school and mom just OD'd last night, but the kid's here and gunshots, dads and jail, the whole thing. I've been on those side of the tracks, I've been to where people go on a whim to ask for three days, but they haven't seen their dad. They see their dad three days a month because he's making $300 million a year, but he's never around. There's problems all over, there's kids that need love all over. I just always had the framework of every kid brings a different set of issues and circumstances with them in their backpack, literal and metaphoric, and I just wanted to, yeah, I just felt responsible for helping them be the best that they can be when they're in my world, and I did that. I looked at a camp forever, I did that, that was my outlook then in school, so I think that's what keeps bringing me back into the classroom. Do you connect with the kids that are having a more troubled home life, are you resonating with that? Do you feel like you can understand them better than maybe someone else? In certain situations, I believe one of my professors said this, the kid that you want to throw the most, the kid that you want to scream at the hardest, just needs you the most, and it's so true, it's just the truth. So I always, when I felt myself getting, and I'm a very patient person, when I felt myself getting shook, I just really just try to meet it, be the bigger person, and meet them with kindness and caring, and it's funny because now I'm at the point where I started so long, I started in 2012, I had my first class, and now I'm at the point where my kids are DMing me from that year, they're having babies, and they're going through life stuff to be like, man, I really appreciate you doing this, or I remember the time that, so that's really cool to see and experience and its validation for me that they're listening. Rob, do you think if your dad was around more, and you had the typical, typical, if you had this story, I don't know how to say it right now, the traditional type of like households, he's there, do you think that you'd be in the same position, and being in the position and kind of be getting these messages and being that leader of that role model right now? That's a good question, probably similar, but it's an interesting hypothetical to think about, and I'm not sure, I think that's a good question. I feel like there might not be an answer, but I think we do become a lot of, our childhood kind of brings us to where we are today, obviously, but I think the thing about you is that let's say, if your childhood brought you to where you're at, it's so subconscious for you, I feel like you just felt like it was just so naturally, so you speak that way, you do seem very patient, and you do seem very calm as a teacher, but you did talk about some things with parenting that you feel like there's some challenges right now. Why is parenting harder than dealing with the kids in the classroom that are having a really hard life right now? Yeah, that's the winner. Obviously, there's a bigger sense of responsibility for how you are molding them, and shaping them with the kids, it's here, there's a lot of different needs, and the spectrum of responsibility as a parent is far, much more vast than my things in the classroom, plus the clock is running in the classroom, like 230 is right there, so I feel like I could give them whenever I have in the tank, and here as well, I try to give everything I have in the tank, but sometimes you pick and choose your spots, or this other thing is happening, like a financial issue, or there's tension with the wife, or another part of the family, there's a lot of other variables in there, but I also think we just, to put a really nice gold silence question, I think it's just over complicated sometimes, I think we over complicate parenting, especially now, because like, there's so many of these parenting experts with parenting tips, you know, on the feed, I'm in an ad algorithm too, on Instagram, and it's just another thing to say like, oh, you know, I said that, I had a situation just like this that this guy's talking about, but I said this, like does that make me a shitty parent, or am I just normal? So there's a lot of that out there, but to circle back, I think it's just over complicating and fear of messing up, or saying the wrong thing, or doing the wrong thing, and I think Chelsea and I have really, you know, from day one, we really made a point not to do, you know, not to follow the herd, and just do what we felt right, I think people underestimate their parenting instincts too, and listen to their friends, or listen to that, and you know, this was very, this was very out there in mainstream a few years ago with, you know, the COVID stuff, and you know, a lot of people resort to what everyone else is doing, but you know your kid best, and just do what you think is best for your kid, and that should be the end of it. It's kind of like that playbook that everyone says, like there is no playbook, but people are looking for it, or they're looking on social media for like what that next family did, and I think what I've seen is that a lot of the best ideas and what I've looked at as some of the most effective parenting have been the people that know that they're not going to do what that person has done, but they applaud them for doing it, and they understand that they could maybe use that tip later, but it's just a kind of stuff away in the toolbox to kind of bring out later there, but it's not as if they're doing it and they are a better parent, because you know what, I think that the moments that we end up seeing, like yeah, that worked for them, but you know what, behind that great moment that they're showing online, and I'm not trying to say like everything's fake online, it's not the case, but I think that a lot of us like let's all show what works for us right now, and I don't think we have to show the shitty part, but I think as long as we kind of approach it and be like hey, that was awesome, we're kind of congratulating you for that, but also accepting that you're going to not be able to show the next thing, so I think that a lot of dads, I think that we can all be that much better by just applauding each other and being able to be straight up and I think vulnerable by letting each other know that like that one win has probably five challenges or losses behind it, and so I just want to share this, we can all come together and kind of understand that, just make sure that we all have to kind of be resilient in that kind of way there too, but yeah man, I love the way that you are going about thinking again, you know, I'm not trying to find some sort of crack and kind of find something that's bubbling up there, but you do sound incredibly resilient in terms of a lot of things that have happened to you that I think could have broke other people, and it's interesting that you are kind of seeing them now, knowing full well because I want to be responsible, I want to be aware of your time here, you mentioned one would be a Hall of Fame dad, now I think that I'd be wrong in asking what can we all do to be a Hall of Fame dad, it kind of goes against what we had just mentioned, right? How are you going to be a Hall of Fame dad, do you think, in the next couple of years? By showing up, I think it's as simple as that, you know, and you're not going to get everything perfect, you're not going to obviously make a ton of mistakes, but like you think about like a baseball player right, like if you're a 333 hitter, a 350 hitter for your career, like you're in the Hall of Fame, like if I can show up and do my best and make my kid feel loved and empowered, and teach them how to go out to the world and just fill other people up, you know, I'm going to feel pretty good about that, and it's been very interesting to see now, like I said this is first year of kindergarten, like we're getting that feedback from adults, from seeing him interact with other people, so it's been really neat, but yeah, I just show up and you know, just love my kids unconditionally. It doesn't take a lot to be an all-star parent, I think, and I think that's just like you're saying, it's popping up a lot through this conversation. Yeah, it is, however we show up, and I think that we can show up, you know, there is no best way to show up, and I'm not saying that, that's the advice to follow, that's me kind of like almost saying like yeah, you know what, every time that I feel like I was the best parent, it wasn't the fact that I did something so well, it was just the fact that I was able to kind of be there whether it was hard or not, or, you know, take on whatever feelings it were, maybe listen a little bit more too, yeah man, I like that. If you, here's one, if you had to keep showing up because you're going to, if you're choosing a V friends character, because we're going to pull back there, who were you showing up as most likely as a V friends character, who do you need, what character do you feel like maybe you need with you, as a sidekick to be the best at? Yeah man, that's a good question, sidekick, there's a lot of them, I feel like, I want to say be the bigger person because I feel like that encompasses so many of the other traits, and is just the, that's the, I think just the holy grail in my mind of how I want, how I want to try to be a model and to emulate certain situations, and that's what my, what my kids to do too, is to just, whether that's being, you know, more patient in that situation, to be kind, to not let someone, you know, not to dwell on a situation, just overall encompassing, just try to be the bigger person in whatever life throws at you, so I think that's who I would need as a reminder. Hey man, you know what, the bigger person has actually showed up a lot in our life recently, I actually took one of the Macy's, I don't know how tall they are, what, six inch ones, yeah, and I put it up in our kitchen as a reminder for like my wife and I, as we're kind of going through or having maybe an argument here or there, I think that it's like, sometimes we have to accept that there's not going to be a right or wrong answer and kind of keep going back and forth on it, it's not going to be good for our kids and kind of showing them that, yeah, you know what, sometimes you're going to have to swallow your pride, and you know, being a bigger person does not mean that the other person's lesser, that's a big one too, yeah, I always, I always get afraid to tell my kids, be the bigger person, because then it's like, well now you are doing something better than the next person, I don't think that's the case, but I do also like picturing what you said, I feel like be the bigger person, it's like a character that's kind of leading the rest, and kind of like now like pulling them up as they're needed, it's like well here's like, here's the graduate gorilla, here's going to be the patient pig, right, here's the authentic anaconda, you know, that we have different times, but we're all kind of working together, but one's going to have to shine a little bit more and like one or the other, which is, I think whenever I talk about these characters, I kind of feel like it's coming back to something, I guess, you know, it could be trial, just we kind of think about it, but it also feels as if it does help make me a more confident parent, because it does help put each one in its own spotlight to think about it and talk about it more openly with my kids, like I never would talk about it, like be the bigger person, if it wasn't actually a character that we're looking up on the shelf, where you haven't like had a card in front of us, and so I feel like it has been helping me, I don't know about being a better parent, but I think a more effective and open parent with communication, which has been special, maybe that's that's kind of what I've always like thought and overlap is, so that I've kind of been finding, but yeah, man, Rob, do you think that you've been able to really kind of shine here and show who you really were through the conversation? I mean, yeah, I feel like you did a fantastic job, and I love, I think this is a, I think I tweeted this, like this is the most important podcast in the community, and you know, as someone... It means a lot for you to say that. Yeah, I think it's just the conversations and unpacking this stuff and broadcasting it out to other people, like I said at the top, like you just don't know who's listening, you don't know how like just the trajectory, it could change a relationship or a day, or you know, the way the person looked at the world so many things, the ripple effect, and for this content matter, I think it's just so important, especially since like this is, you know, our kids, like our kids are going to know each other, like if all of this plays out the way that we are hoping and think, like, you know, VCON is just going to be not only a place to connect with each other, but you know, our kids are going to start to meet each other, kids are going to grow up together, so like this is a real generational thing, so, you know, to put out stuff like this is, I just think very important, so yeah, as everyone knows about alone, right, as long as we know that we definitely are all kind of cut from the same clock in some way, I think it's definitely going to be good, but yeah man, again, thanks so much for being here, and thanks for having me to see if it's going, yeah of course, don't be a stranger, but we'll talk again soon, all right, all right, later everybody, take care, bye.