VeeDads
@TheStarsPodcast REVISITED - Ron - Parenting with Soft Skills; Applying Sales Skills to Parenting
ORIGINALLY RELEASED MARCH 2024
In this conversation, Ryan Turner and Ron Jordan discuss the importance of parenting and the unique challenges faced by parents within the VeeFriends community. They explore different parenting styles and the need for open communication and understanding in relationships. Ron shares his experiences as a parent and how his background in sales and psychology has influenced his parenting approach. They also discuss the impact of childhood experiences on parenting and the importance of nurturing relationships. Overall, the conversation highlights the significance of thoughtful and empathetic parenting. In this conversation, Ron Jordan discusses the importance of customer service and challenging customers in order to provide value. He also shares insights on parenting and the importance of negotiation and empowering children to speak up. The impact of VeeFriends and soft skills is explored, along with the story of the character Sentimental Salamander. The concept of effort and fulfillment in parenting is discussed, as well as the pursuit of success and the importance of keeping promises. Ron emphasizes the importance of representing oneself and being open to questions and discussions.
Takeaways from this conversation with Ron:
- Open communication and understanding are crucial in parenting and relationships.
- Parenting styles can vary, and it is important to find an approach that works for both the parent and the child.
- Soft skills, such as active listening and empathy, play a significant role in effective parenting.
- Rewarding positive behavior and ignoring negative behavior can be effective strategies in parenting.
- Childhood experiences can shape parenting styles and approaches.
- Thoughtful and empathetic parenting can lead to stronger relationships with children.
Jump to topics:
00:00 Introduction and the Importance of Parenting
01:21 Introducing Ron Jordan
03:10 The Importance of Sharing Thoughts and Feelings
04:15 Different Parenting Styles
05:01 The Emotional Aspect of Parenting
06:02 Describing Oneself as a Parent
07:03 Feeling Inadequate as a Parent
08:06 Soft Skills and Parenting
09:06 Different Parenting Approaches
10:16 Applying Sales Skills to Parenting
11:33 The Importance of Communication in Relationships
13:37 Rewarding Positive Behavior in Parenting
15:11 The Influence of Rewards and Pleasurable Experiences
16:18 Protective Nature of the Brain in Traumatic Childhoods
18:13 Feeling Autonomous as a Child
19:36 Escaping Toxic Environments
22:10 Impact of Childhood Experiences on Parenting
23:08 Thoughtful Parenting and Relationships
25:31 Sharing Relationship Advice vs. Parenting Advice
26:49 Challenges in Maintaining Relationships
27:53 Customer Service and Challenging Customers
31:30 Parenting and Negotiation
35:04 Empowering Children to Speak Up
37:16 The Impact of VFriends and Soft Skills
42:49 The Story of Sentimental Salamander
45:05 The Dark Horse Character
48:17 Effort and Fulfillment in Parenting
51:42 The Pursuit of Success and Fulfillment
53:25 The Importance of Keeping Promises
54:18 Representing Yourself and Being an Open Book
Visit http://veedadsofficial.com for merch and other insights around all things Dad life.
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Ryan Turner
ryanturner@foodisfuelnyc.com
- Broadcast on:
- 06 Oct 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
>> Boom, boom, boom, Ron Jordan, here we are. >> Live, sorta. >> Dude, you are everywhere across X, across the V friends community. The one thing I haven't, I was actually just talking with Tom as well, because I was recruiting him to have a conversation as well, and it's like some people have been very open and clear with what they're doing with their family and kiddos and other people have kind of like sat back a little bit, whether it's just they've done that intentionally or not. I've found that there's this like amazing niche within this niche, these parents, and what I'm finding is that it is a certain kind of person, I mean we all know parents, right? But within the V friends community, I think that we're all, we're all a special breed, and I think that we're kind of, we're holding it back from, I think, bringing it out into the world and that's a detriment. I think talking about kind of who we are, how we parent, you know, to whatever extent you would want to kind of talk about it, I think it's just so necessary. But Ron Jordan, with that said, that was more for you than anything else, but Ron, can you introduce yourself to the V friends community and anyone else that's outside of it listening right now? Absolutely, thank you again for having me on, and I do think that how we parent our kids in sharing some of that story is I've kept that close to my chest, for sure, like, 'cause I just don't feel adequate enough to tell somebody else how to do it. Ooh, I like that, okay. We're definitely coming back around to that statement. Yeah, for sure, and, but yeah, so I'm Ron Jordan, I have been, since day one, mentor, I think my entrance into Discord for V friends was like May, maybe even April, I think a couple weeks into April, so even pre-ment. So yeah, I'd date way back into V friends itself, but me as a person, I'm an ultra-marathon runner, I'm a business owner, I am, you know, actively in my local government, podcaster, author, you know, whatever tag you wanna put on me, I probably have done it and have done it okay. Ooh, man, I like that I've probably done it okay. You're wearing many hats, I didn't realize even half of that. So I think we got the Tudor on Horn sometimes, let the world know what's happening. I know, I'm my own worst marketing person. Yeah, I think we all are, for sure, right? But I think it might go back to what you just mentioned about kind of, you know, not feeling adequate and I know there's like nuance within that kind of statement there, but you know, I think the more that we share ourselves, we definitely find that people are like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, me too." Like, I don't know about you. Sometimes I find that most of my thoughts and my feelings and what I do tend to be on the average level, kind of like a little road. So I'm like, and I've just learned this through like my professional world and my business, like most people are all thinking the same thing from a nutrition standpoint or whatever is going on. And so I've built up this ability just to say like, you know what, I don't really care because I'm sure someone else is going to connect with this and I know that if I hold it back because I've seen it, I've seen people hold back their thoughts and not share it. And then it becomes something, if I can very loosely kind of call it toxic, where it just kind of turns in on itself and it becomes something it didn't need to over time. But yeah, you are well known within the V friends community and it's been amazing. I met you, I think, more through CNC play, which was always fun. And then you kind of ran it, you taught me and your mind for it is amazing. I know I am the emotional player who doesn't know what he's doing. And I'll just say... You like to talk through it and I like that. You talk through your moves and like, I love that whenever you're even in the moment, you're self-aware enough to know that you're not doing the right thing and yet you still do it. And it's amazing to me. It's why I don't gamble or play poker. I just can't do it. Yeah, we play poker the other night and I was just so tired. I just tried to double up on pocket kings and it was that to the moon one. Yeah. I tried to double up on pocket kings. I think it was two, three, four, five came out on like the river and the turn. And I'm like, of course somebody's going to have an ace, but I'm already so deep into this. Let's go all in. So I'm terrible. I'm terrible too. I was so tired. I'm like... Because like, poker's a marathon. I don't think people understand how much of a marathon poker is. Whenever you say you're going to play poker, just assume it's going to be six hours. It's insane. I mean, it's an emotion. It's a card. First of all, whatever you just said about poker, I only understand like 25% of it. Second of all, I think that something like poker, the extent which I've played before, I always know that it's like, and even with like CNC play, it is an emotional like breaking the whole time. You need to make sure that you're not like jumping too far ahead of yourself and too far back and they kind of stay with it and it's really hard sometimes. So, ooh, definitely tough. But I love that we're jumping into more CNC stuff. I know that in some past conversations we've had, I guess more recently, honestly, past is like the past week as we've been kind of building up some of these conversations with parents. You're talking about being tired and taking on the world and this marathon. It's kind of like what parenting is. How do you describe yourself as a parent right now? Oh man, how do I? That's tough and I think while you think about it, I'm going to say I think most people don't don't know. And I think that's perfect because like no one's like, I've read the rule book, I know exactly what I'm going to do and I'm going to follow X, Y, and Z. So there's not really a definition, but you know what I think? I think that if you ask your kids and you're like, "Hey, what do you see me as?" They might kind of give you something you're surprised at. What do you think your kids would describe you as a parent? I think I'm definitely the playful, the more playful one. I'm always like joking around super light. I don't get too deep in the weeds on too much. Yeah, I would say like that's what they say, but then also super supportive and open-minded as well. What makes you feel inadequate? All that sounds wonderful. Now you use this word. I don't feel inadequate. Like I think I'm fully capable of like being a dad and I think I do super good at it honestly. Just based on feedback, the feedback loop that I get from the kids, right? So yeah, inadequate meaning like I don't feel like there's set core principles that you are to follow as a parent, as a leader, that I should impose on somebody else because those set of circumstances could be totally different than my own. And for me to say, "You know, you should do this. You should say these things are tough for me to like, I guess to tell somebody else." You're like, "This is how you should do it, dude." I don't know. Yeah. No, I have that. Because the audience matters. You know, you got to read the room. You got to know. And I think that's where maybe more soft skills and understanding those soft skills as a parent has been because I'm a sales guy. So I'm always like trying to come at it from that point of view, meaning like just listening, more instead of like speaking more, I guess. So maybe that's the piece that I would say to somebody versus you should parent more strict or something like that. I don't know. I think more concrete examples like that parenting tip, I guess, would be something I would share with people. But like, I don't know, I guess I don't get into the weeds as far as like you shouldn't hit your kids and you shouldn't ground them or you should ground them or take their phones. Like those types of parenting maneuvers, I guess, because like I've hardly ever ground my kids. I hear you. I was talking with someone yesterday and her, I asked her about her parenting style and she said, "I am their friend first and parent second." And I loved it because, and I stopped myself from saying anything right after she said it because I knew how divisive and how much people would kind of take that and I loved what she had given as her reasoning. And I think at once people kind of hear what she said, I think would be people be like, "Okay, I see exactly what she's doing and there's no way that I could end up saying no to how she's thinking about it." But for you, it sounds like it's a little bit like that in terms of your playfulness. You're not really there to be that traditional kind of parent at the moment, but it sounds like what you're telling me and this is exploratory, right? There's nothing here that descriptive for you to tell me. And I also love Ron, Ron Jordan, you are so well spoken and not even just well spoken. You're so thoughtful with each word that you share and it's that itself, if we're talking about soft skills and sales, you've mastered that. It's great to hear you talk. You always have my ear when I'm like, "He's going to drop something really good." And I think even here too. But it sounds like sales has really kind of taught you some things about people and you've brought that into your parenting, right? Absolutely. Yeah. A million percent. Between that and all of my psychology classes in college, I have been deep into the weeds as far as how relationships work, why they work the way they do, and understanding what's driving behavior has always been something that I personally have found really exciting to learn. And it's like everybody's got their thing that lights a fire under their ass and you just have to listen and like finesse the relationship long enough to understand what's driving that and then you can operate. But until you understand where they're coming from, you're just barking at them and they're trying to figure it out and don't steal that from them. Allow them to figure it out because it's so exciting when you do figure it out. Don't cheat them of that excitement. It's a little bit like a chess match, right? You can't move too quickly. You have to kind of know where maybe your next move is, but more importantly, the third move after that. I love how, I mean, I think everyone can connect with that for sure, but there's a big difference between dealing with an adult and dealing with a kid that way. How have you found that dealing with an adult and kind of taking that strategy and being able to kind of piece that together and then come to this final conclusion where you've kind of reached this award by being patient and talking with a person, asking questions, how do you think that has differed from adults into your children? Well, I have a really good example and everybody points to this example in our family because they're like, you're the most patient person in the world and it's, and this is like, go from adult to infant, like these are the, so I'm talking about an infant right now. An infant does not want to eat when you want them to eat. They don't want to eat what you want them to eat, you know, but you know what's best for them and you just have to wait it out. So I would sit there with the thing that I knew that they needed and I would be excited when they did the thing I needed them to, but I would ignore them completely when they were not doing the thing that I needed them to do. So when they're crying, they're screaming, I wasn't trying to soothe them. I was ignoring them, but as soon as they did the thing I needed them to, reward excitement, happiness, clapping, they started to connect it after about 45 minutes. And that's how you do it, like you just reward the thing that you want them to do and ignore the things that you don't want them to do. You don't have to cause a huge stink about everything that they're not doing right. Sometimes it's just as good just to ignore that shit and reward the things that are really good. So that's like infant style. That's how I would like, that's how I've always done things. School taught you that, huh? Yes. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Okay. School. I was trying to beat you there for a second. They taught me, taught me that because think about, we're not so different than a freak in hamster. Like, we're, we're really not all that different. There's a reason why they use mice and things like that to test on like they've done countless studies with humans as well and a, and a, and I can point to a prime example where there is a student, they're, they're obviously in on it. There's a student in the other room and this student has to press a button to make that person hurt. They only hear it. They don't see it. They hear it. And they just continue to do it because they're being told to do it. And instead of stopping and, and reducing all that friction, they continue to do it because it's easier for them and they're getting rewarded because it's easier for, it's just the whole thing. So like, there's so many studies like that. And if you think about when a hamster goes up to a, a, a water thing, it goes up, it gets the water done it or you have to press a button to get the water. It's all the same, you have to eat this to get happiness. You know, it's, it's like it's all the same. It really is all the same. Wait, come back, come back to this study cause I, I've, I've definitely heard this study. I've seen the study, but now over time it's filtered down into me now remembering every bit about it. Why was the person in one room pressing the button that was causing pain? Cause they weren't actually causing pain, right? It was the other person in the other room that was just like faking the pain or they were just like playing or there was like a, there was like a light going off or something. There was, there was something going on that like they thought they were causing pain, but it wasn't happening. Why, why in that study were they, were they pressing the button again? Cause they were getting rewarded is what we're saying. I'm saying that they press the button because they were told to and, and with that the reward is thank you for pressing the button. You're a very important piece to this study. You have to continue to do this. And what you're saying is this parallel with reward over some sort of punishment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause then it becomes a, a pleasurable experience and pleasurable experiences last longer than negative experiences. Yeah, I, um, children who have more, more of a traumatic childhood, they tend to have less memory of it. They just know that the trauma was definitely there. And so it's more of these, this, this absence of, um, of their history of their past, of their lived experiences, more than more of it, right? Um, which is always kind of sad to think about, but you know, that's the brain protecting them sometimes. It's like, I'd rather you not remember at all if you're going to remember, you know, something. Um, where was it, how, how were you parented, Ron? I don't remember my childhood. If that answers your question, well, it does. I mean, I just, I just said something that could be really telling. Is this, is this something that you, why don't you remember your childhood? There is, there are bits and pieces of it. I was very much like 80s kid, go, go out, do your thing, come back whenever you come back, but make sure I know where you're at. That's how I was parented. So I was, I was just latchkey kid constantly and I wasn't in, I wasn't in trouble or anything. Like I definitely got suspended and stuff and I would get in trouble. But like, I wasn't a, wasn't like a bad kid, wasn't fighting people or anything like that. But it was, it was like just sports in general. That's what kind of kept me, kept my nose clean. But as far as that goes, that that's how I was, that's how I was parented. Go enjoy life. That's awesome. And did that feel really, really passive? Nice. Yeah. I mean, I felt, I felt great. I felt like grown up almost. You know, I can take care of myself. Hmm. It was no good deal for me. I wasn't like missing out on hugs and kisses. Like I didn't give a shit. I was having fun. That's awesome. You, you felt like this autonomy is exactly what you wanted, what you needed and it kind of made you are today and there's like no other way that you really see that it would have happened. Why do you think you don't have much, much memory of the parenting side of it? Well, I think because they were just like, not around. And then when they were around, it was like really just toxic. So there were times where things were just super toxic. Just within the marriage, like between mom and dad, is that what it was? Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. Got it. Okay. Like here's the door. Go outside. Maybe your parents were dealing with their own kind of thing. Did that, that rub off on you in terms of that toxic environment? Did you want to escape that? No, not really. I mean, I think, I think sometimes to an extent you, you always, whenever you look back on it, you're like, oh, maybe I was, maybe I was escaped, like trying to escape because I was always playing baseball or I was always having some sort of like diversion. I was at a friend's house or something like that. Like looking back on it, like maybe, but actively in the moment, I don't, I don't think that that was ever like, even on my mind, like you were like, I just got to get out of here. It was more of a, it was better maybe outside. Yeah, it was never like, oh, I'm, I'm blowing up in my room. I got to get out of here. It was never. Yeah. I was never like angsty like that. Yeah. Like an 80s movie. Just like punch the pillow and just like running out, out, like out of your window on the roof and jumping off. They go, see you guys later. Yeah. Can't handle this. I'm just adding. No. Yeah. They were like, okay. That was, you know, I, I had a similar situation where I knew that my parents didn't have the best marriage. I didn't feel like there was love there. There wasn't connection. There was no interest. I think in each other. And if anything, it was very much the other side of it. I very much attached to other families and it took someone else in my family. It was, it was my aunt. It was my dad's sister to let me know what she saw me doing. She's like, I know that you're going to your friend's house a lot. And I was also a serial data. I always had a girlfriend because that meant that I could go to their house and I could kind of like be in something that was a little bit more planned and thought through. And it was almost like I took on my friend's parents as like my own at some points. Like they would, you know, they'd be going on vacation and they would invite me along. And it was like, oh, wow, like this is a thing. Like you go on vacations and oh, these parents, they, you know, they're all, they're talking with each other. You know, maybe they're not showing, you know, so much love, but like we're out to dinner. Everyone's enjoying this. This isn't something that feels all angsty and like, you know, challenging. And I know that that definitely affected me a little bit. I remember to, I remember looking at my mom one point and I said, why don't you just divorce dad? I was probably like, it was probably like 20. I remember it was like my first job out of school. She visited me down in D.C. And it was just like she was talking about him and she always talked about him like somewhat negatively, just always kind of condescending. And it was just like, why, like why are you in this right now? Like, like, I'm, I'm seeing that you don't want to be here. Do you want to be here? And she'd always talk about her family out in Seattle like, oh, like I'm going to go visit them. I'm going to, I'm going to regret not seeing them all the time. And it was like, well, then why don't you just go be out there? And she was like, well, because you guys are here, me and my two brothers. And I was like, and I remember thinking, I was like, you only live once. And you know, you're going to see us again. And to be honest, you're only seeing us maybe like twice a year right now because that was, and that wasn't on her. That was like us just kind of living our life, right? And so I'm, I, I did not grow up with a very close understanding of what a marriage was or what it meant to, you know, have that very like Bob Saget kind of like, you know, moment in parenting where you sat down, you like talk through a difficult situation. It came to the conclusion you learned something. And you know, I was like, that's all made up. That is nothing. Does that actually happen? And I remember seeing it like actually happened in some of my friends' houses. And I was like, wow, it's an actual thing. Like, is that marriage? Is that parenting? Like, and I remember just feeling so lost. Like, what do I do now? Like, and yeah, I mean, like, that's what I know I'm sitting with. And it definitely affects my parenting today. In terms of how I'm like, I'm dropping everything right now. I'm sitting on the floor in front of my seven year old. I'm looking eye to eye. You have my ear. Like, what are you feeling right now? I will ask more questions than I will say something. And I know that like, if I've understood or I've heard myself say no a couple times, I'm like, stop, pause. I've said no a couple times. How is that affecting you? And I don't know. Like, this could be to a detriment at some point as well. But you sound very thoughtful in the way that you're parenting almost, you know, I'm not going to say it's the same as me because I think what you're saying sounds awesome. I don't want to say that, oh, I sound awesome too. Ron, we're together. Yeah. High five. We're awesome dads. I mean, I definitely would, I would definitely say that I, I'm very confident in how I parent, I would never just like you. I would never tell someone how to parent. I think I definitely bite my tongue sometimes and I'm like, I don't know if that's really good. And it's only because of what I'm seeing your kid kind of project back. And so I'm questioning it, not telling what to do. So I mean, it just. I also think it's good, though. It's good, though, to tell people that, like to say, I actually, I heard, let's just say this the other day was her friend was telling her something. Oh, let's see your wife. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. She was telling her friend was telling her a story and she was just like, you know, understand like you're not, you're not like thinking about this thing right. The way that you're going to go about this is not the right way to do it. And I was like, I love that. This was in, this is like a parenting situation. Yeah, it was, well, it was her and her friend. So I mean, just relationships in general, having those tough conversations is really what makes what makes those relationships so strong that you can have more conversations like that. Like you have to have question asking and back and forth. Like you just, you have to get to it. You have to get to it. Otherwise it's going to come out in different ways. And those different ways will express themselves. Like no matter how much you try and suffocate, whatever you're trying to suffocate, it's going to come out in different ways. And if you suffocate it enough, it will actually eat away your insides like you will get sick. So that achy feeling you feel in your belly, whenever you're trying to have that tough conversation, it's good, but you can't have that in there. It has to come out. It has to, it has to manifest itself into words. Otherwise it manifests itself into behaviors. And when it manifests itself into behaviors, that's when you see all these red flags going up where the kids acting out and those types of things. So like you just have to, you have to nip it in the butt in the moment and talk through it. Otherwise it's going to, it's going to come out and you're going to have to talk about it at some point. Anyhow. Well, you kind of started off and I know that you kind of corrected me with the adequacy of yourself and parenting all against that. But I know what you were saying is that you didn't feel adequate to share that. I mean, what you're saying is pretty much, I think, you know, how, how someone, it's like a blueprint to actually share, you know, how you can evaluate the situation, maybe when you can step in, how you can do it. I think the relationship you have with someone, I think that's an, that's an excellent way to live life. Yeah, I'm good at, I think I'm good at explaining how to have a relationship. I don't think I'm good at telling you how to parent your own child. I think, yeah. You know what I mean? Like I'm good at telling and sharing how to have relationships, like I have a great marriage. I have a good relationship with my kids. I have friends. I have, you know, business associates, you know, you, you don't get those things and they don't last for as long as they have without nurturing them and figuring out, well, why does, why do all those relationships actually work? And why do the relationships that I don't have, why are they not working? And like after 30 something years of trying that out, you just, you come to some conclusions. Why do you think many relationships don't work when you're in like the sales environment? They're hard, they're hard, it's hard to keep up with, with everyone else's needs over your own. Like to be able to have a relationship, you have to have a give and take. It can't be all one-sided. If it's always one-sided and you're always taking, there's, there's no, there's no room in that relationship for the other person to thrive because you're constantly taking from them. You're not giving anything back. So you have to give things back as well and, and that's why I think that most people inside of a sales environment, we're trying to extract money from you. It's no secret. We want your money. We want you to buy the thing and we want your money. Well, me and so do a hundred other people. Why, why me, why mine? And I, and it's, and it has a lot to do with, yeah, my product is better, of course. But at the same time, you just focus in on the people, what, what is going to help them and figure out how you can help them do their thing as they give you their money and time and, and efforts. Can you shine a little light on what exactly your product is because I want to make sure that I can understand how you give back. Obviously, someone pays you for your product and the product itself is going to give back. But how do you as a very well, you know, I think a very deliberate person, how do you give back? How do you take that customer service? How do you take that relationship to the next level? That's it right there. In your world. Customer service. I will, I will make sure that whatever you need, you get it, but I also will push you back and challenge you. Like I will make, I, there's this, there was a sales, sales training I did, shit, this was probably 10, 11 years ago. They were talking about a new strategy, like sweeping across the nation, this new strategy of challenging your customer and I was always like, holy crap, why would you challenge your customer? Like, why would you tell them that they're wrong? Or why would you tell them that what they're doing isn't, isn't not, not good, but isn't optimal? I was like, why would you ever tell your customer that that's crazy? And now, after being in the business for a while, those customers respect you so much more because you're being thoughtful about their business as it relates to yours. And if, for example, let's say like, I wanted to save the money, we'll just save that, say that. I want to save the money. Well, how can we save the money? I can give them a discount, but that cuts into my pocket or we can have them order more of something that they're going to order anyhow, put it all together, ship it in one shipment. That way, they have it all plus it's going to be frayed to loud. So now you don't have to pay for it, right? So like, it's just like innovative ideas like that, that I know that you already ordered this thing 12 times a year. Why don't you double up your orders, but only order them every quarter, do it all at once, then you can get a discount on the freight. So like, that's saving them money, so they have more budget to do other things, and they're still accomplishing the same thing, which is getting that product and having it available. Well, you're helping them operate, I think, more efficiently at a different level. I've been using this a lot lately, I feel like, but the idea of, you know, a rising tide, I think lifts all ships, right? And so, you know, that kind of thing, it's like, look, okay, what I can do is I can either give you the discount, but you're only now going to operate at like 70%. Why don't I push you to maybe order more? I can show you how to do this because if you operate better with what I'm going to give you, someone else is going to see you and they can buy it from me, you're getting more money, and now we're all winning, right? That's really good. Ron, I have to come back to this. You said this because obviously we're finding parallels with everything here. You said my question was about the relationship. How are you really helping feed that relationship? And I think what you said is I will make sure you get what you want, but I will push you. Obviously, there's a direct parallel with parenting, right? Oh, yeah. Do you think that that is, it's obviously salient, let's just get there. How do you think that now translates into the way that you are talking with your kids and how you're parenting? Everything's a negotiation. Everything. I like that. I like that. You know what? Just today, my wife had, well, it's starting yesterday. My wife was taking my daughter to school and she checked her backpack for something and she found a toy that we've said, don't bring this school. Our thing is like, if you're not ready to lose it and I'm not ready to lose it, you can't bring it to school because it's likely going to get lost, right? And so we've decided we're not ready to lose it. We know you want to bring it, but we're not ready to lose just yet, give us some time. My wife found this toy in her backpack and my wife said to my daughter, she said, you now have to earn my trust back in so many words. I think that maybe sounds harsh. I know for me, I want to understand why you felt like one, you had to lie to what is it? Why is it so important for you to have it right now? And so I told her today, I'm really trying not to go against my wife, but in terms of negotiation, you just said this, I said, I want you to sit down with your friends because it was connected with her friends. Like the reason she wanted it, she told me something. I was like, I was like, Sloan, if you, if you sit down with your friends and you figure out four reasons that you can tell mom and I that you need to have it at school, let's have a discussion, you know, because I want her to feel like she has the ability to speak up, even though she knows that we've already said no, because maybe there is a really good reason. Yes. And I think, I think that some parents, I think shut that down so quickly because of what you said earlier, you said, because it's hard, right? And so whether it's hard to have a discussion, whether it's hard to find reasoning and kind of come to a conclusion together, whatever it is, but I never want someone to feel whether it's in a sales situation, whether it's one of my clients or my, you know, my, I want everyone to feel like they have a voice because there's likely a reason for them to be feeling the way that they do. And I know that I am not the smartest person by any means. And there's likely a reason that I need to understand a little bit more. So yes, I resonate with that a ton, and I love what you just said is that it's always a negotiation. Well, and it empowers our children to speak up for themselves and advocate for themselves. If they are always just shut down and it's because I'm the parent and you listen to me, that is, that will work for a while, but it doesn't work long term. I do not believe that it works long term. It doesn't foster a good relationship. Think about any boss that you've ever had that just was on your throat all the time. Do you love that? Are you still at that job? Like probably not. And you probably don't love it if you are still there. I feel like the more we empower them to speak up, I don't care if they are dead wrong. Listen, listen to them. You'll gain so much insight as the way that little brain is thinking, you'll be able to pivot your relationship and your approach based on all of that feedback that you've just gotten. When somebody tells you exactly who they are and how they think, just listen, and that includes the kids. What do you think you could do better as a parent? What could I do better as a parent? I just don't know. I'm operating pretty optimally right now. No, it's all good. I just feel that a lot of people that would listen to this right now like... I gave up my whole Jiu Jitsu program to be at my daughter's basketball games. Like, I'm operating where I understand that there's only a certain amount of these years available. And when I'm here, I'm present. I don't have my phone. I'm doing the things. I'm having the conversations. I'm doing all of that stuff. I just don't know what more you can do as a parent than to be that supportive piece, be available when needed, and make the sacrifices to show an example of what it means to have a good relationship. I like what you're saying. I feel as if it's not like there's boxes that you're checking off as a parent. I think that you're completely going by. Do I feel fulfilled as a parent right now, and do I feel like my kids are getting enough of what they need from me? Yeah. I feel super fulfilled. And maybe she hates me. I don't know. She's not here. Maybe she don't like me at all. It's like, you have no idea. You just don't know. You do the best you can. You teach them the things that you think should be taught. You model good behavior, and you hope for the best. They could still be a complete screw up, despite you doing it all. And here's the other piece of it, and this is where I've come to terms with it all. I don't attach myself to her successes or her failures. I'm just here to guide her, whichever way she needs me to. I'm not attached to her being this whatever. That's her goal. I just have to be here and be supportive of whatever that is. Ron, why do you attach to V-Friends? What is it about V-Friends that you-- It's those soft skills. It's all the soft skills and how it has made the biggest impact in my life because of the relationships that I have now. I truly believe that we get so caught up in what-- I don't even know why we think that you have to be a complete ass-hat to own a business and make money. I just-- I don't know where it comes from. I don't know if it's TV, is it movies, is it just past down generation to generation, is that how it really is? I don't know. I'm not a billionaire, so maybe that is how it is. However, I feel much more fulfilled whenever my customer is calling me and asking me to come around more because they want to see me more. My daughter wants to go on daddy-daughter dates at 15, going on 16 years old. My wife wants to go to the movies with me. It's fulfilling and all of those soft skills that V-Friends is teaching, I want so many more people to have this fulfillment out of life, out of relationships than this angst and animosity that we constantly see on the news. That's just like, ugh, it's not fun. Do you hope that she is taking the same things away from V-Friends as you? Do you think that she would take away the same things, like where is her mind around? She's like, what, she's 15, you said, 15, 16? Yes. I mean, she's got that growth mindset as well. She's very driven, motivated. She learns things on her own and is able to advocate for herself and speaks. She does well in all of her classes where she has to get up in front of the room and teach and so like, yeah, I think that she is modeling that type of behavior and given the set of circumstances, like maybe she would get into V-Friends, but right now she's like, God, you're stupid cartoon stuff, dad, I don't get it. So you know, she's like, is that V-Friends again, it's V-Friends again. But I think what you're saying and I think why this is so interesting is because I think we can sit back when someone says something like that, whether it's our kids, whether it's our spouse, whether it's just one of our friends that's observing it or even someone online that's just making a snarky comment. I think that we have so much and I don't want to speak for you here. I think we have so much confidence in terms of what it actually is going to do in the future and how it's affecting the world because it's affecting our community. We end up seeing it. We're like, I don't care if you think it's silly because it's way more than just that cartoon that you're seeing right now and you can tear it down as much as you want to. But if you dove in, you'd feel the same way I do right now and obviously I'm speaking for myself there. I don't want to project that on you, but it sounds a little bit similar in terms of how you're thinking. I really do and I do look back to other cartoons and other models where this type of thought process was put behind a cartoon like a Care Bears, like the Fraggle Rocks, like the Mr. Rogers' neighborhood, you name it. They all had this message that when you were watching it, you were like, yeah, I get it. You just kind of like see the behavior, sort of like when you went on vacation, it's like these people were talking to each other in a certain way and instead of modeling not to put any, like, not anybody under the bus, but like shameless versus Mr. Rogers' neighborhood, like, there's a very different ways to communicate. Both accomplished goals, but one may be a little more fulfilling than the other and longer lasting, I don't know, but that's sort of where I go at it from and I think that Vee Friends is on the way to doing that. It's just very, very early stages, but I think that we all have this sunshine and rainbows view of what this will build out to be, but even if it ends up just as a Smurfs and not a Disney, then I still think it's a wild success if it just even affects a pocket of people to be more fulfilled out of life as a result of cartoon characters for God's sakes in a TCG game, you know? Imagine all the happiness that's happened because of, like, just Pokemon or whatever game you want to say, it's just you build around this IP and those experiences with those people have similar mentalities as you, so I think that it matters in the grand scheme of things like that mind share of everybody coming together that are similarly situated around one thing, I think, like it gets a little religious at that point, but it's more about those relationships that you're building as a result of the skills being learned because of characters. It's just wild to me that we can learn that way, and again, this goes back to, like, the psychology of things, like, what drives that, and it's just really attaching to the behaviors you're seeing inside of a character. What's going to happen with Sally Sentimental Salamander in five years? I think that Sentimental Salamander is probably going to be a bit of a crybaby. We've already seen Sentimental Sally already crying at Vicon, so it's not a good look. You know, I'm all about vulnerability, but, you know, I'm not sure. However, here's, here's, here's my, here's my take on it, all right? Here's where I'm really coming from. Why don't you sell things because you're sentimental? You get sentimental about the experience that brought you that thing, or the pursuit of the thing itself, and now that you have it, you don't get rid of it. I think the sentimental piece of relationships sunk costs, those types of things, those are all going to be part of Sentimental Salamander's story, I think. When we hang on too long to something, it becomes like that toxic piece of our lives, and I think that that's where some of the story line will end up going, because even in 12 and a half, yeah, 12 and a half, he mentions being sentimental about things and alludes to that type of thinking and that thought process as to why some relationships last longer than they should, including the management, leadership, personal, all of those things. It's because of that sunk cost sentimentality behind it, and what goes on inside of our heads and why we don't get rid of those things. That's kind of where the candor comes in, kind of candor, all that kind of stuff, and to, right, know when to kind of cut your ties, cut your losses. That's great. Well, Andy, DJ, Gary, do you hear that? You make sure that you position the Salamander appropriately for Ron here. I know, man, the first, the first, the first time I get to see Sentimental Salamander in action, crying. Who was the dark horse character that you think is going to come out of the woodwork and resonate with a lot of people? Oh, with a lot of people, man. My mind, whenever I think about that, my mind runs 70s, 60s, 50s. You know, in my head, I'm like, what would be a good thing to Sentimental Salamander? And I'm thinking, like, sincere skunk, like the S play, I could see those guys being bros. Alliteration is definitely a good play, yes. Yeah, and then the authentic anaconda comes out, and it's like, "Hey, I heard you calling me." Perfect. I love it. I just wrote a whole cartoon. What's his name? JC. JC Kaufman. DJ. DJ Kaufman. Come on. I just wrote it. Right? You're making me think now, right? Yeah, it's DJ, right? Grought it up. Grought it up. I think it is DJ Kaufman. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. He's a Yinser. Oh, yeah. Oh, you are from Pittsburgh? Yeah. He's a nice nation. Awesome. I asked him the other day if he wanted to grab lunch one of these days, he was like, "Yeah, but I got to do it after I'm done with this stuff." He sounds like he's deep into what's going on. I think he's solidified it when I heard him say, "If you don't see something happening, there is a lot happening behind the scenes," which we've always known, right? When he gives you the time, you got to hit him up. He's also a dad, and he started to touch on a little bit with his kids on one of his streams when he was drawing. I asked him something, and he went into that, and I was really appreciative that he was talking about it. Okay. Yeah. Ron, that's awesome. Thank you so much for this time. I think that people, hold on, hold on. I think that you are not here to teach people how to parent, but I think people can definitely look at you as, if I can, somewhat of a stoic here in terms of parenting. I feel that you are firm in your abilities, what you want to do, you are extremely thoughtful in everything that's happening. You're not just making things happen on a whim. I love that about you. I think that other people would really connect with it too. I think that while you think that maybe you can't tell someone how to parent, I think people will listen to you and understand that they can take something away, if that makes sense. I hope that you can feel that. With you and your parenting style, I like to tell people and think that it's never enough. We're never going to do enough. I think that's why exactly we should live like Ron, and just look for fulfillment versus enough. I think that's a really tough line to draw and understand, but it sounds like you've really solidified yourself in that position. I look up to you for that. You're a great dad. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. You're good to have you. I see your notes all the time and the effort that you put into your children also, effort is the most important piece, in my opinion. I definitely a good one, for sure. I think effort is underrated, right? Because we want the outcome, but it's really just, you guys got to show up at least. Somebody told me the one day they said, "How do you get to be a billionaire?" And they said, "You just got to do the regular things really well every single day. Every single day, you just got to get up and do the things that you're supposed to do." And after you do it for so long, you get what you want. Well, one thing I was going to bring up, and I didn't, just because I didn't really go there, I didn't want to force it, was just the idea of you being the ultra runner and someone who is very consistent in their habits and what they end up doing. I mean, you can't do that without being consistent. And just extremely dedicated, and so, Ron, when is your first billion coming? I'm not sure. I'm definitely on the way to definitely millions, but billions might be out of reach at the moment. I do have some cool plans with our current company that I've tossed around some ideas with the partners and discussing it to get to that level, but, yeah, I'm like, I don't know, there's to your point where you were talking about it, it's never enough. It's like it's never enough. You never want to stop growing something that you really enjoy and love and believe in, and you want it to be in everybody's house and everybody's mouth of talking about it and enjoying it and being fulfilled. That's addicting as hell whenever you actually get to the thing that you want to do. You reach that goal and you're like, "Oh, my God, that felt great, but the pursuit to get there was even better," so you rinse and repeat, and that's the thing that I'm at right now is like, "I just want to rinse and repeat all the time. I just love doing things." Yeah, but you're all being, yes, and so, if I had to put money on someone, Ron, you'd be in my top 10 list for sure, that was just going to succeed. Whoever heard that, I want them to just rewind this whole thing and go back and just rounds about the moments though, he's about dropping jujitsu, he's about making sure that he's there, he's showing up, he's putting effort in for his daughter, so this is a billionaire that is also getting to a point where he feels like it's enough because if we don't ever have that thought of where is fulfillment, it's never going to be enough, and therefore we're always going to keep thinking that we have to do more and more and more. I think that in parenting, if we get there, that's where guilt and shame starts to really sneak in. If I could implore parents to do anything, it's like put that effort in now so that you don't look back and think that you have to make up for it later too. That's me talking with young kids. I think I'm just kind of looking ahead and how I want to make sure I feel, but you're on your way there dude, so congratulations. I appreciate that, and I also think sometimes we get so caught up in what we miss rather than what we don't miss. What are the things that you don't miss and just make sure that you don't miss more than you miss? I think it's a good quote. I like it. I think it's good. I think people have to- I said that about everything. But that takes so much thought. When someone hears that, I think it like, I can see people's minds like, "Ugh, what does it mean? Where did I not miss it? Where did I miss it? What do I do now?" But yeah, that is a tough thought for some people to let things go. So many people, I think, we're brooding. We're forever trying to figure out what's the answer, and again, there's never going to be that right answer, and it's so hard. I think that's kind of where parenting is. But because you can never go back and see the thing. Like you can't go back and see the thing. So how do you make sure that you see the thing next time? And this was a big thing for me. I don't make promises. Like I just- I won't promise you anything. And if I- you get me to promise you something, it is because I can control pretty much every variable possible to make sure that the thing happens. Like I just don't promise anything to my daughter, to anybody, is for that reason, there's always a possibility that something goes awry, and your word means absolutely everything. And if you start saying things and doing the opposite, you lose credibility and there's no trust and nobody wants to be around you. Were you on the other side of that at any point in your life? I don't think I've ever been on the other side of it, where nobody trusted me. It was just always- I'm so sorry to cut you off. Were you on the other side where you were promised many things and it wasn't fulfilled? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Cons. Was that as a kid or was that- Definitely as a kid, but even as an adult, like you would get told in your job, like somebody else would get a promotion over you. You would get this day off, but then you were told, "Ah, you can't have that day off." Like, the whiplash shit is no good. Like if it's- If you say you're going to do it, you either do it or you give me a really good excuse as to why it didn't happen, but make sure you tell me beforehand not as it's supposed to be happening, because then it's- then it feels like an afterthought and I don't- I don't deal well with that. Well, decisive duck, isn't you? Very. You know exactly what you want to put in. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Yeah. It's good. Well, I want to be thoughtful of the time here and I'm going to have to jump to a call in a couple minutes here, but man, do you feel like you've been able to represent yourself here, just like you wanted to? I feel good. I feel good. I'm glad. Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. And if anybody wants to follow up with me, feel free. I'm always an open book and any questions that you have, happy to answer. Dude, you have a lot to give. I'm glad to know you. See you later. I will talk to you, dude. All right.