Kumble Korner
World Cup Dreams Still Alive
Super Joshi, Karan Mehta and Nakul Pande discuss the last week in Indian Cricket including how the Women have turned things round in the UAE to get to second place in their World Cup group, how the Men have beaten Bangladesh in the T20's & what the Indian batting line up might look like post Virat Kohli and Rohit Sharma
They also get into a discussion about India and Pakistan and about how and when a test series might happen between the two teams and also chat about the relationship between Sport and Politics
- Broadcast on:
- 10 Oct 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) - Welcome to another episode of "Come Late Corner." I am Super Joshi joined by Corin Mehta and Knuckle Bundy. And if you like this show and you're a fan of it, don't forget to hit subscribe below. If you're on YouTube and wherever you get this podcast, podcast app on Apple, Spotify, whatever, something that I don't even know exists yet. And follow us on social media, Instagram, X, which is such "Come Late Corner." That's obviously with Kase. So it's been a busy week, a busy few days. There's obviously a T20 World Cup going on for the ladies and a series going on for the men's with Bangladesh, who they recently kind of went T20 in a test match. In Sunday, let's start with ladies first. Sunday gone, the ladies beat the neighbors to the west, Pakistan, and the men beat the neighbors to the east, not Pakistan, Bangladesh. And let's start there, Knuckle Bundy. - Yeah, sorry, India off the back of running into the best performance in New Zealand, put in for a very, very long time. New Zealand were one of the worst performing teams coming into the World Cup, smashed home and away by, by England, and really heavily reliant on a few players. - But they turned on against India in a World Cup, obviously. - Yeah, and India really didn't. And they looked like they were really struggling to find a batting approach. And kind of the same thing happened against, against Pakistan. Well, Pakistan batting first made only 105, are undoubtedly ready, terrific. The second Seema, taking three for 19, taking the important wickets when it mattered. If you haven't seen the highlight driven, if you have, 'cause it's worth looking again. Fatima Sana, the Pakistan captain who was super in their first game, she fell to one of the best catches by a wiki, but I've ever seen by Raja Ghosh, standing out to the Stumps, incredible catch. Sarah Taylor levels of athleticism up to the Stumps. And then India made things harder than they needed to be, really with the bat. Shefali Verma started really well in the power play and then got slowed down, and ended up getting out for an underrun of all 30. Jaemima Rodriguez, Simila, didn't get a boundary, was dismissed for an underrunable, well under a runable. 20, Richard Ghosh fell the very next ball, Fatima Sana, again doing her thing. At that point, India were 80 for four. And in danger of sort of sleepwalking the way to defeat. And it took Herman Preep to get India over the line. She managed to hit a few boundaries in an incredibly slow pitch in the by injured herself, very nearly near the end of that game. And India stumbled over the line and had the points on the board, but then basically needed a huge net run rate boost against Sri Lanka today. They started the game second bottom, in terms of net run rate with a big negative net run rate. And they absolutely hammered Sri Lanka to the point that they are now second in the group, just ahead of Pakistan on net run rate. The batters fired, which they haven't done for the entire tournament. They had 172 for three, the highest score by anyone in the tournament so far. Doubly impressed it 'cause that was the second game in the by on that day. Shefali in, Shefali, very much picked him up on nearly a hundred. Mom and a battered magnificently, both in and out of the power play. Those inside out cover drives that she plays down the ground brilliantly. It took a silly run out for her to fall. Shefali, very much showed that on a slow pitch power is power yard. She hit the ball over the infield. If you can't hit the ball through the infield and put Sri Lanka on the defensive. - There's a goal, is that a compliment? - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she make, according to her 40 doesn't seem like that good of innings, but she started a really strong, well-smurthing mum that I was trying to find her feet. And those two compliment each other so well, they've been terrific for India in the last, you were so since the last World Cup. And then Hiran Preek found her form. She was picking up Sri Lankan bowlers over the infield. Every time Sri Lanka moved to fielder, she'd hit the ball where the fielders had just come from. She made Charmunga out the path to change her bowlers all the time. Sri Lanka ended up using seven different bowlers over the course of the game. I'm a country, in particular, I mentioned her. She came in to the side for Sri Lanka and had already considered five runs before she bought her first legitimate bowl with no balls and wides and stuff. And it kind of got worse from there. And she ended up with 52 of 27 balls to make sure that India got over 170, which was always gonna be a, I know Sri Lanka did chase down a decent screw in the Asia Cup final, but really, rather, it was on the pictures as sub-fielder, for Hiran Preek who battered and then didn't field. So presumably is still a little bit injured. And so took Captain's prerogative to not field at all in the second innings. Rather, the other came on and took an incredible catch, that second ball. Then Charmunga out the path to who is Sri Lanka's best player, one of the very best players in the world, is not having a very good tournament, unfortunately, for her she got out in the next over Hoshita Samara Vikramar, who is also a very important player for Sri Lanka. And Charmunga was six for three after in the third over and really the game was done at that point. All of India's bowlers were excellent. Renika Singh at the top of the order and then Arundhati Reddy and Asha Sobna. So the seam and fingerspin with Sri Lanka and do the show and the spin of Asha with her leg breaks. India put their foot on the thrower and never let it off. - Sri Lanka, what's 90 year old out? - 90 year old out, 82 run win. And India are now second behind Australia with only Australia to play. - Chiki Hill, let run right boost there. - Yeah, absolutely. - So then our Bob Pakistan on net run rate and Sri Lanka are all but out the tournament three games, three losses, horrifying net run rate. Having been one of the best teams in the world or formed into the world coming into the tournament a real disappointment for them. So you would imagine that Australia will go through top of that group, Australia, play Pakistan tomorrow, sorry on Friday, if they win that they're essentially through and obviously a win for India had beaten Australia in one of games and in a bilateral series recently. But Australia are phenomenal, as we all know. - So to question for the next level, we know from the men's tournament Dubai, it was a bit of a shit show in terms of winning the toss win the game pretty much. Is it the same in the women's or is there something being corrected or is nature? - We've seen a lot of wins by teams batting first in the last few days. What I will say is that we've had the last three games have all been team batting first scoring a pretty good total and the team batting second getting bold out for under 100. So it's hard to really read too much into that. It has been a bit more of a mix in terms of batting first and bowling first. Partly that is because, in fact, a large part of that is the D who hasn't been in such a factor. We haven't seen really dewy conditions in the evening and also particularly the Shahja pitch has just been so slow to begin with that it's sort of, it's almost eliminated any advantage you would get in winning the toss. The Dubai pitch has been a little bit better to the point where we've seen now Australia and India and South Africa all able to put on good scores. South Africa have been, whereas Sri Lanka had been in brilliant form before the tournament and looked like a real rising force. Or be it unlikely to get out of what is a very tough group with Australia and India. They look like a team to watch. They have been really poor. And South Africa, we got to the final last year at home. The amazing, emotional, semi-final win against England. Packed out Newlands as African great on the rise. They've really struggled in the last year. A few big players, no longer part of the team. L'Azaleid, I don't know if I'm near Kirk, both giving up their control contracts in slightly mysterious circumstances. Shelton in his smile as well. But South Africa have been really good so far in this tournament and look. It looks like, as it was last time, Australia and England and South Africa and India are the best four teams in the tournament and will probably end up being the semi-finalists. India really needed this, not just the win, but the manner of the win, asserting their dominance, getting a solid plan with the bat and being able to impose themselves with the bat. This is the kind of win at the right at the kind of time that will hopefully get them out of what had been a really nervy, panicky... That New Zealand game was really quite baffling to watch. New Zealand did play really well, but India... It's sort of a loud New Zealand to play really well and more uncharacteristically passive. Yes, that was a very bizarre performance in many ways. On Sunday, it's also quite a bit of a game. Curran, we were getting trashed up by our overlord, who of Murley End, if you want any words for him. Yeah, I mean, this was about... This is about as competitive as I expected it to be. I know that Sri Lanka has been in better form and had been playing well, and as Knuckle mentioned, did have a pretty riveting World Cup campaign, but when a little brother plays a big brother, wouldn't matter as the most, fluke's knocking at them twice. It's about what I expected. I am obviously going to eat my words and keep it a little bit more kosher, knowing that we still have Australia on the horizon. And I do think it's a little bit of a fun schedule in Kirk, and it seems a little bit emphasis to the BCCI normally, where it'll be Australia's third match in Siraj, and I think it'll be our first match there, which is a little bit, doesn't give us the same innate advantage I'm typically used to the BCCI laying out for us. But I can also see that Australia goes, "Siraj, Siraj," and then fly up to Dubai, and then play back in Siraj two days later to play down. So now this is the second week in a row. We've discovered a flaw with the BCCI last week. Knuckle rightly pointed out that they don't control Lord Indira, which is obviously problematic in many ways. And now, India turning up and playing on a ground that the opposition will be well at home at. Yeah, hopefully that's off out of corn. (laughs) Black, surely. (laughs) - Oh, W.G. Grace. (laughs) Yeah, I think, I believe that India are guaranteed to play in Dubai for their semi-final. (laughs) - There we are. (laughs) - So, which is pretty standard behavior. I'm not really sure who has the advantage, because you would immediately think that India, on what has been an incredibly slow and difficult to score on what it in Sharjah would have the advantage, but then Australia have several superb spin bowlers as well. And batters who are more able to take more batters, rather, who were able to take a slow pitch out of the equation. If you think of the power of players, like Ash Gardener, Annabel Sutherland, and Beth Mooney, you know, Lisa Healy at the top of the order. - It's frightening when you read those names, I'll be honest. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. - And Halloween's not for a few weeks yet. - Yeah, absolutely, Grace Harris is one of the biggest hitters in the world, Talia Magra, who batted at number eight against New Zealand, Annabel Sutherland batted nine against New Zealand, which is bonkers. (laughing) - Really. So, India have the game to beat Australia. They've done it before. If they play to their potential, they can trouble Australia. If Australia play anywhere near their potential, they'll beat anyone. I think that is gonna be a superb game. And it might, frankly, end up being, it is possible if other results go that way, like if Australia really beat Pakistan heavily tomorrow and that net run rate drops, then we could end up in a situation where we're going into the last, into that game with not actually that much potentially riding on it. New Zealand play Sri Lanka the day before, and then finish off against Pakistan. So. - New Zealand would do the hell of a win, though? - Yeah, yeah. You can see a scenario whereby Australia really beat Pakistan heavily, so then, and then New Zealand, but then Pakistan beat New Zealand, New Zealand beat Sri Lanka, and there are, there is a set of scenarios where, basically, India can lose Australia and still go through because of the net run rate, assuming that they don't get beaten too heavily by Australia. But it would make things a lot easier and they've given themselves the position where destinies in their hands again, which it wasn't before this game, and it makes that India-Australia game an even more exciting prospect than it already was. - Yeah, I think many of us probably thought India would be good for a semi, maybe, if they're getting to the final, who knows, but probably, I think the semi felt like the ceiling, but maybe, you know, after, obviously, we'll constantly defeatist and really, hopefully, at the same time, so after the first game is done, like, yeah, it should just be, it's just disband completely. In fact, not even just the women seem just disband, there's no hope after New Zealand, but now, suddenly, there is, once again, hope of the women's team dominating the world, until, obviously, the next game, when it all, perhaps, will be upside down again. Guys, one thing I want to say, actually, I just remembered, look, we talked last week about the IPO having more money, which is great for the women's game. Obviously, this World Cup is kind of on the back of one last year, great, great. There are some absolutely brilliant players, but the game is still developing, it's obviously not to the level of the men's game. You know, there are other sports like tennis, where, yes, the men and women's game is different, but the women's game is as important, as a spectacle, as the men's. One of the things that doesn't necessarily help that, is bad, unpiring, especially when the unpiring is bending over to tie their laces, the one is probably still in pain, and it's a run-out. What are your thoughts on those shenanigans with New Zealand? Was that a little bit amateur? Was that maybe umpire's thinking, you know what, Premier League referees in football do whatever the hell they like? Why don't we give it a go? It's a really bizarre situation, wasn't it? I mean, deeply Sharma is always at the end of the centre of something weird happening. And these are two pretty experienced umpires out there in the middle to the square leg umpire, I think not to be watching the umpire at the striker's end, taking a hat, giving a hat to deeply Sharma, who took the hat. Probably the, to be honest, probably the biggest error was what on earth was Amelia Kerr doing, what Amelia Kerr doing trying to run? And yeah, it could run that wasn't really on. The whole thing was just... Yeah, but the thing is, if that comes off and Harman Priest is not awake, then it's a great run, and then she's been really clever. I don't know if it would have counted, though, because they might well have said, as the reason that Amelia Kerr wasn't giving out run-out is because the umpires said that over it had been called. So by the same token, presumably the run doesn't count either, because it's been started after over's been called. - No, no, sure, I know that bit, I agree with, but it was more the fact that had, I mean, no one seemed to know that the over had been called, or at least the batsman didn't realise that, and they were standing pretty close to the umpires. Curran, you said, in the group, the ball doesn't lie. - Oh, yeah, she got out two balls later. - Well, yes. - Yeah, and then Newsy then hammered India anyway, so it's kind of a good thing in a way that this case that didn't really make a difference to the results. - Yeah, she got out without screwing any more runs. I think it's probably the important part of this as well. So justice was served. - Yeah, I'm quite happy to then put it in the case of cricket just being really stupid. I was listening to the BBC radio commentary was, cricket is the only sport where something important can be decided on, at the exact moment, someone takes a hat from another human being. It was, I'm happy to just place it in the growing, cricket is stupid pile. - Cricket's the only sport where you don't know if you're playing or not. I have no idea if the ball is on. I have no idea if they're even running after. So I don't think there's another sport where the players could even have a room for interpretation to know whether they're in play or not. - I was gonna go to Sunday's Men's Tea 20, but from what you've just said, I think it'd be right to start with today's game. And our boy, Washington Sundar, who got, he was done dirty. Zero balls based zero runs scored, and he just watched an overgo by while tailenders who just trying to slog it. Fair enough, Oshteep hit a beautiful six, which is a problem. Like, sure, but just a word on Mr. Sundar, please go. - Well, I mean, he got to work it. So, I guess he played his part of it, maybe got two. - But he was clearly the senior batter in that. - Yeah, but I mean, after we saw Oshteep, when he needed one off like three or whatever, gonna feel long ago, one to bang on a six and you're a clean bowl and tied the mat. Like, you know what you're gonna get with him now? - I mean, it was him, it was the guy before him. Chuck, I mean, yeah, I mean, his, like I said, Oshteep shot was a proper cricket shot. I wouldn't, you can't knock it. Whereas, I don't know what, the other chap was doing. - Yeah, 214 for seven in the last over of a T20. - But do you also do? - You should be severely disciplined for not trying to hit a six in that situation. - Or do you need to give Washi a chance? - Do you think it's an extent of a new learning curve that we're just gonna have to get used to undergout them, where we don't, like everyone on the tail end and the sort of slogs and other... - Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe. But maybe he's, he's looking at Ben Duck, it's strike rate, being the highest in the world. He's thought, you know what, sod this, this is not happening. - What, what, if there's no other, there's no other way you can play in that situation or should play in that situation, you swing as hard as you can, you run until you get run out. Who cares about your, your, your not out situation? - Like, it would be, it would be wrong and a disciplinary offense to do anything other. - So basically what you're saying is, the umpires needed something to be just outraged about, and that's what they chosen that over. And not the umpires, sorry, the commentators, they needed something to be outraged by in that over, because everything else is actually pretty great, like you said, 240 more. - Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it is quite funny to come in at number eight and in with an over left and not face a ball and see two, two wickets go down. That, just remind me of what's in a, in a club game, a school game or something, I was about 12 or something, but like, I came in at number six or seven, didn't end there as I wasn't facing and saw my team lose four in four to lose the game. So I was stuck not, not out of, not balls faced. - It's a good for your average, I suppose. - That's certainly great for my average. - Thoughts on, we've discussed a female already earlier on. Thoughts on the male already, Garan, 'cause he, obviously his captain tried to take him out with a shot straight to his kind and something, and then he must have just got a bit pissed off with the one with sort of half-centrino. - Yeah, it was, and after a little bit of a, what's it called, a little stop and go start there. It wasn't necessarily the biggest, the most free swinging platform that we could have possibly had at the first spot. Leveled in, took that shot, and then just sort of turned around and seemingly turned on the ignition for the entire batting lineup after that, because once he got going, it was all down for breaks for everybody else. - Before that, there was throwing in. Was it 53 or something, 63, something around that? - 41. - 41 for three. There we go. - Yeah, and he was what, 13 off 12 before he hit his first six, off the three hit, having already had a catch dropped, or given a chance? - Yeah, it looks promising. Any other thoughts on the men's game today? Not, I mean, look, let's be honest, we don't really care about it. This is kind of nice, but... - The seven bowlers and each of them getting a wicked, I don't know if we'll see that again. Super unique, just a fun, like if you're just in a trick and purist, that's just a scorecard, you're gonna look back and just enjoy a smile on that. - And you know I'm a fan of just using as many bonus as you can, just for the head of it, so. - Yeah, and then, yeah, I think the rest of it was relatively just good cricket. There wasn't, the fielding was good, hardly had a spectacular running catch. Just to share with us about that guy brings, and even Prague from there, I think like two balls later, not two balls. Two overs later had a beautiful running save, to save a boundary, which didn't really make a difference from the scheme of the match, but it is... - It's about attitude, right? You might say. - Yeah, it's the young players playing their hearts out, for them it's the biggest match they'll play in for this quarter or whatever and it's been, it's been an exciting, I guess, juxtaposition from that Sri Lanka series, which didn't necessarily go that well for us in the white ball, but it is, it's just such a deep lineup, and everyone can slog you, and like, obviously we just said hit that six, but he's not like an incapable batter, but Washi coming in at eighth is crazy. It's a lot of you have knocked off the Australian women's lineup, when these people are coming in or just like... - Yeah, Warren Trucker of Otte has been sort of, it's probably not quite an all-rounder, but he can bat a little bit and he's batting it at nine. I think it's really interesting to see the development of a potentially post, row at the Coley-KL Middle Order, or top middle and top order, 'cause you could conceivably, I mean, it's gonna be really, really interesting to see what India decides to do. Do they decide at some point to make the call that they are going to not have those three in the top order anymore? Because... - I was just about to say that, 'cause one of them's a wicked keeper. - Yeah, I mean, but then you've got Richard Pump. - Yeah. - It's come back as well, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, or, I mean, you would imagine that Shubman Gil and your Shasphe J-Smile will end up opening in T20 cricket. You've also got Rutherard-Gag-Quiles sort of floating around the edges of this group. - You mean against like probably higher ranked opposition? - Well, I mean, sort of becoming a full strength team. What we're into have struggled in recent years in T20 cricket is that you've had the top order taking up too much, or potentially taking up time, or getting, scoring, taking so much of the bulk of the batting in the early parts of tournament so the middle order doesn't get any chance to do anything. And so you end up with a very sort of weird, you end up with a batting order, which ends up very out of form. But you've got-- - You've got collapsing against New Zealand in the semi-final. - Well, or just simply being undercooked, or you end up with a bunch of top order, or you end up with a bunch of top order batters being shunted down into the middle order, and all the pressure being on one guy to do the hitting. But if you look at the Nithishkum already, you're incusing and hard to pick Pundia, those guys are all finisher types, potentially. - Yeah, and then it just took a couple of wickets, it's more than me. - Yeah, and a scene bowling all rounder, or another scene bowling all rounder, is something that India have tried to find for a long time. You know, they tried with Shivam Dubey, they tried with Vijay Shankar. None of those guys are, I think it's Ayyad as well. None of those guys are probably quite good enough with the ball to justify there. They're placed as all rounders. Arguably, Nithishkum already isn't quite either yet, but he's closer than any of those guys have been. And it means that you don't have quite so much pressure on how did it Pundia? - Yeah, I mean, if the guy's taking a 50, scoring a 50, taking a couple of wickets, you kind of say, yeah, that's kind of good enough, wouldn't you? Especially I think that's what he's, I mean, obviously fairly early into his career as well, so. - And if you look at the bowlers that India don't have in this series for various reasons. - Well, there's no just you in this garage, right? - Or shummy. - Well, shummy, yeah, as well, yeah. I mean, I was discounting shummy a little because I thought he'd probably be phased out from T20, but yes, him as well. - So you're not gonna have Nithishkum already necessarily bowling full spells all the time, but if he can ship him with a couple of overs and be a hitter in the middle order, that gives Surakumar a lot more options as a captain. Also, frankly, the fact that you can score, it's not, I don't know if they're an okay T20 team, certainly they've got bowlers here who have done good things. The fact that you can score 220 with Surakumar scoring eight is not something people would have necessarily considered possible until relatively recently. - Yeah, and then the top three. Well, the top three got just like this 35 between them. So, that's quite something. Sanju Sampson, I think, took the row hit approach. He came in, hit it, got out. Is that all right, cool. I'm going to chill out chill for a while and then I'll go keep for a bit. 10 off seven, if memory's certainly correct, he didn't particularly set the wheel on fire and the first match either. - 29 off 19 and a low chase in the first game, very much did his job. - Oh, sorry, yeah. I am completely not remembering this correctly. You're right. That was decent. - Yeah. - I'll be sure you show me how good out quickly and the other one. - And I got it to Tuscan. - Tuscan bowl beautifully today. - Yeah. - Two, two working 16 runs, it will discipline, utilize the pitch, the inconsistency of the bounds. So, as much as Sanju, we all want to see him get off and we know pause. We all want to see him score a lot of runs and play the way that we've all know that he's capable of playing. There's also a tip of the heart to the Tuscan Tuscan who bowl just good, really well maintained T 20 bowling. - Yeah, I did. Talking about ting on bowling, Mr. Pandia. Hard thick. The current floor is going to be all yours on this one, but obviously he did, you know, he did the business day. It was a 32 of, I've got it here somewhere, 32 of 19. - 19, yeah. Two fours, two sixes. He was, today was pretty much at a canter, but on Sunday, he just, the guy just had that bit of arrogance about him. You know the shot I'm talking about and some people are putting it down to just him being comfortable again. Some of it is kind of post divorce hard, they're suddenly getting his swagger back as they're like, look at me, this is what you've lost, all of that kind of stuff. Or is it just after the World Cup and the kind of the, this is now the proper, the first kind of proper series he's playing, he's kind of just having fun. What do you think, Aaron? - I think the T 20 World Cup when took a lot of the pressure off of them. - Well, he took a lot of pressure off the World Cup as well. - True, but yeah, it's a double cent sword and it's a great one. But I think that shot, the way you can even tell just watching his emotions, body language, how excited he got there was a phase where he looked sad and out of place and just sort of going through the motions when he was out of form and anyone doing all that. But now watching him these last two matches, he's been so excitable. It's been the fun, the original heart that we had before the injuries seemingly. - Just on these injuries, what he's been through is no joke. Like he's been to some sea of past injuries. - He has had some really, really horrifying back injuries for a long time now and like, backs don't heal well in general there are. - He was walking in a brace. He's probably will see in those videos. - But he has a medium pace, that sort of tension and power that you bring. - Yeah, and give it up. - And it got fairly slim guy. - And how much of his game is built on that explosive power in that athleticism and the fact that he's able to, you know, those shots he plays were bowl of ball wide york and he's able to reach out over the off side and in the field as well, the ability to move to move really quickly. It takes a lot. - There were a few of those ones. Yeah, there were a few of those on Sunday and he's no cairn pull out. He's not like a massive guy, but he still hits it far, hits it well. - Yeah, and putting all that, being able to trust that he can put all of that force and that explosive force through his back again, must be huge. - Hmm. - Well, I mean, it's all down the cone because it's going to inspire him to, to just kind of form, so I mean. - Outside of the rehab, I can't imagine there's a bigger leading factor in his career turnaround than me. Just spending probably 18 months incessantly for lack of a better work hating him. And I also want to do that phase. I was looking back for my tweets. I remember there was a baller that I used to really just sort of shit on them any time they did one mistake and never want to see them again. Too much for Granny was Ershte. So yeah, I really spotted out those two no nothing talents early. So yeah, if we want to give credit anywhere, I'll take it. - To be fair, Ershte was a little bit, let's just say he was learning and we could see that he wasn't quite up to it. I think I have vague memories of final overs and just where he's just- - He's no balls. - He's coming on your leg. No, he's just going to give run to away. But obviously, all of that kind of stood him in good stead. So who else are you hating on right now? Who else should we look out for? - We're fun right now. We just want a World Cup. There's no one to hate him. So why don't we go through these droughts where I start nitpicking all of these and every bilateral series? - I was going to say before with a Bangladesh series, you said that you'd never wanted to see Kayler or he'll play for India again. And then he comes in and does really well in the dead series. - We got that really wrong in that preview 'cause we said no Kayler wishes so far as for him and the other bowler instead of the guy who played against a gosh deep. So I mean, yeah, they- - Don't be fair to talk about the score a double ton. Pretty soon thereafter. So we could have been there. But yeah, I mean, again, I'm up for hire. If anyone wants me to hate their players, they typically turn it on right after that. - Does it work if you do it on purpose? - Um, I don't know. I don't know. Well, to an extent maybe 'cause I hate a lot of the English cricketers. A lot. - So I was actually going to say this, right? We've been just mocking Ben Duckett. Just not for his play, just for what he said. And I would say I have to add that this is even Nasser Hussein ripped into him for his comments about Jeswell 'cause Nasser Hussein was like, 'cause he knows the struggle. And he knows obviously as much as being an international player is difficult. And you go through sacrifice and training, everything is not the same in England versus a guy in India. Their level of struggle is different. - I mean, particularly as well. - Yeah, his story in particular, yeah. Nasser Hussein rinsed him for that. But we've been like, obviously just throwing shade at him in a fun way just 'cause of what he said. And now he's got the highest average of players over 1,000 runs in the last five years. So, I mean... - I'd really, really well today in that test match in Wollpahn with a dislocated thumb. - On an autobahn, yeah. - Yeah, anybody not that really well? - Ollie Pope. Oh, that was last night. Too fair, heck of a catch remember, Jamal. But again, you talk about score cut, you love to see. I know this is the cumbly corner, but Zack Crawley, 78. Joe Root, 176, not out. Ben Duckett, 84. Harry Brooke, 141. Ollie Pope, second bulldog. - Yeah, but Pakistan also equally talked to ridiculous amounts. I was looking at the thread on Reddit and there was someone referring to the groundskeeper as, I know this is a loaded word in the context of the country, but as the real terrorists. And I think this is down to like a comparative terrorist football 'cause it's a really defensive football in the Premier League's referred to terrorist football. - All right, what was that? - It was pushing 40 degrees in Wollpahn on the first day. I do wonder how much you can actually do. - Yeah, but I think there's, there are complaints that there are a few of these pictures being prepared in Pakistan. And I think out of all the reasons and all the discussions about India playing in Pakistan that I see and hear, this pitch, this game is probably the biggest reason, the biggest kind of cause for the BCC, I say, no, we're not sending an Indian team there. I'm not putting just see through that in a one day, in a test match, sorry, or even show me 'cause just, just because I had a fair few injuries, I'm certainly not putting Hardik through that either if he somehow manages to make it into a test game. That's just ruinous for bowlers. Go on, go on. - Yeah, but we send beer out. - You put your hands up going like, what do you want? - Yeah, we send beer out there. His average is back above 50. Send him there for a quick three test tour on those pitches. - Oh. - Let's do something about 50. - Virat and Gotti going there will be insane. So obviously, you've probably seen a clip of everyone talking anytime we played Pakistan, we just wound up, we just wound up, got the letting him go. And then there's obviously there's a historical reason that for those of you who don't know, Gotti and Gotti's grandfather was a refugee from Pakistan during partition. So there is like, yeah, there is a reason for that. I think Cully's family also-- - In every other Indian Punjabi, by the way, but-- - Oh, this is my point. I think Cully's family also came from Punjab at that point. So, yes. - All right, fuck me, send him over. - Send him over. - Send him over. - There is growing calls for having an India Pakistan test series in a neutral country. I think England have actually sort of semi-formally often for that. - Oh, really? - And everyone rinsed England for that. I remember that. Well, I know, it's you lot. I mean, I've been joking in the past on what we used to do the India stuff from the early end. I refer to India Pakistan as the Radcliffe Cup, because of the Radcliffe line. But it would be hilarious to have a game like that hosted here. Probably would be like Boston, but-- - Mate, it would be-- Yes, it would. - England's got-- - England's got-- - And it rugby is called the Calcutta Cup, so you know. - The levels of historical irony would be quite-- it would be up to scale. But it would also be a hell of a series. - Yes. - Would it, would it, would it be not just ransom? It would be a hell of an occasion. - No, absolutely hell of an occasion. (laughing) - I think look, I was saving India Pakistan conversation for the future. But I think probably, look, there are a number of reasons why it doesn't happen now. And I know a lot of people blame Modi, but I think then we said it'd be correct. It actually kind of stopped around 2008, which was Congress government, and then obviously it didn't get any better after the BJP came in. In terms of politics, I was having this conversation with actually a mixed race, Black guy, who's British. And it was just at what point do you say politics and sport are different? Do we then apologize to South Africa for not letting them play during apartheid? I think the answer would be no. - I'm not sure that-- - I don't think those two are particularly equivalent. - I'm gonna talk, I don't know, in context. That line on its own makes no sense. I'm talking about the border concept of politics and sport. Russia not getting included in the World Cup, in Saudi Olympics. And the reason is not that bad. From the Indian point of view, Pakistan are sending across militants. That's what I'm trying to say. In that sense, that's how the Indians view it. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm saying that's how the Indians view it. - It is how they view it, and that is the narrative that it is convenient and expedient for certain parts of the Indian political system to put about, and it's become mainstream. It's become the mainstream view, I would say, in India. - Well, I mean-- - And it certainly-- - Would you not say that it's been, it's been historically kind of the situation. Like, even if we look back over the last 15 years, pre-BJP, generally. I mean, let's say 2008, for example, it was said that the handler of the guys, guess where are you sitting? Even recently, who was claiming responsibility for, you know, for one, the chap is saying, in fact, some. - It being, there's a kernel of factual basis to all of it. - Yeah, look, that's not to discount that the propaganda machinery in India and certain news channels don't hide it up. I completely agree with that as well. - It's become, you know, it's almost a, it's a cliche to say, when you bring up something like this on a podcast, that there should be a whole other podcast, but clearly this one actually should. - It was meant to be, I don't know how we, we've meended onto this. - But, the status of Pakistan as not just a neighboring country with which there are historical tensions, but the enemy has, we are in that phase of the relationship between India and Pakistan now. And it has meant that, I think, where as it relates to sport, what it has meant is that the BCCI, who for all of their faults are not short to recognize commercial flow, rather to recognize commercial opportunities, have not dared push this, because it is not, the political climate is not conducive to it. - I don't think so, sorry, go on. - We saw a few years ago, maybe 10 years ago, that the then head of the, of the Pakistan, of the PCV, I think it's Shirdi Akan at the time. One of them all forward thinking, Pakistan cricket administrators tried to meet with the BCCI repeatedly in Mumbai and was blanked. - Did you watch it? - Rajabini, go over there recently and was very talking about how great the hospitality was, as well, online, online. - I can't quite remember. - I saw something about that. - But we've had situations where there has been an attempt at repression and from the Pakistani, from the Pakistan side, and, you know, the BCCI, there's a reason that every ICC tournament draw is, I think the ICC are kind of admitted now, manipulated so that India and Pakistan play each other in the group. - Absolutely. We were amazed Rajab was famously on record, saying that Indian businesses fund Pakistani cricket through advertising and through the way the money kind of flows, which upset people. I think he was the head of the PCV at that time. - Yeah, and as they do with cricket more or less everywhere. - Yeah, that's kind of a particularly eating thing. So, but the financial draw and the appetite for India, Pakistan games is very obvious. All things being equal or without the political climate being quite so toxic and of a tenor where it's not just a country with whom there are historical tensions, very real historical tensions and historical trauma that goes back a long, long way, and has been deepened by some of the things you've been talking about, but has gone to enemy status. That means that the BCCI are not able or feel that they are unable to push for what would otherwise be an extremely lucrative and extremely sought after sporting relationship. In the same way that you see that there are, contrast this, for example, to FIFA's attitude towards Qatar and Saudi Arabia and other countries where there's a lot that you can say politically, but the commercial profit motive has overridden those. And I find it interesting that that hasn't happened yet in cricket. Now, the situations aren't quite analogous, but the fact that the political has been able to override the commercial for so long is very, very unusual in today's sporting climate. Just to finish this off, I think that there is a difference between what has happened with Russia, which is essentially the international sporting community turning on Russia as they did again on South Africa. That is a little different than what is essentially a bilateral dispute. - Yeah, which is why they play in these national tournaments. - Yeah, absolutely, and it'll be fascinating to see what happens if they ever get to the final of World Test Championship. - Aren't they the champions trophy from Pakistan right now? - So they're now talking about India playing their games, not in Pakistan, but the rest of the tournament have been playing in Pakistan. And that's sort of fun, which I think they've had with Asia Cups in the past, which seems-- - Yeah, we'll just talk and move to Dubai. I think the, well, I find slightly interesting is nowadays the argument is around safety of the players. I mean, I can't comment on that. I'm not sure that is the main reason why. - No, they see the security that teams get when they go to Pakistan now, and even frankly, and even then, frankly, there's a brilliant book called "Pundits from Pakistan" by Rahul Bhattacharya about the 2003 tour. And India players were able to mix more than they would get invited to people's houses for dinner, but they were still in incredible levels of security, even even them. - Those tours were box office. They were great. Probably one of my favorite Pakistan players, is Eunice Khan. Great batsman, played with the smile. The point I wanted to actually make when I started off on this was actually, probably the best of both worlds is knowing that India are gonna play Pakistan in any icy tour. I see tournaments is actually, just beat them. And that kind of just carries it through. I would, I think my understanding a little bit is that it's not necessarily just about historical tensions from what I see. And Anna, I'm hearing all of what I've read is whenever there's something that happens, particularly in Kashmir, when a soldier dies, they're like, well, we should be playing against them in anything. At the same time, you have to, especially in international tournaments. And it's not like England not playing against Zimbabwe or something in New Zealand, and it's 4.15 points. That's kind of a nonsense, if you agree. There were also people talking about India or boycotting Bangladesh in this series, because there's stuff going in Bangladesh with Hindus and Christians getting killed. But that doesn't actually help anything, really. - Ever since I've really sort of been kind of old enough to have an opinion on it, I've always been of the opinion that, like, the idea that sport and politics don't and shouldn't make sure it's just a nonsense. It's just not, it's not possible. Forget whether it's desirable or not. It's not, it's not possible that we live, the sport is part of a, sport is an inherently political thing, particularly when you're talking national sport. Like, the idea that cricket, the game, you know, the soft power arm of the British Empire, should now pretend to be apolitical is just ridiculous, just laughable, frankly. - And so you have to come up with some way of dealing with the fact that you're going to run into political problems. But I find it really interesting that the, that the political and the, the national, the nationalist tensions and those, you know, those very real traumas have been allowed to override the commercial imperative in a way that we really just don't see any more in sport. - Yeah, we really don't. Did you think if the IPO had not been around, hadn't been the money maker? It is, that maybe that would be, that would have been the case because then you've got to rely more on these kind of-- - Yeah, maybe, because it was-- - You know, that maybe, maybe India, I mean, there were Pakistani players in the first gear of the, of the IPO show of October and a few others played in the first year of the, of the IPO. And yes, I think the fact that India don't need part of the Australian financially. - Yeah, and also I think on a political level, they're looking to decouple anyway. But that's probably the financial part where you said-- - Fascinating if China ever got good at cricket to see what happens. - And then I think it's curtains for everyone. (laughs) - It's generally, yeah. We're going to be trying to know the USA, become good at cricket, then like, India, who, you remember. - You'll say-- - Karen's working on it. - Yeah. - Yeah, you'll say we'd talk to someone. So we're not that. - USA, USA. - Yeah, but yeah, all that Belt and Road money is gonna start getting, gonna start getting, yeah. - Well, you don't know. - Ironically, cricket cages in Kigali. We started talking about this, on this tangent, by talking about a road in Pakistan. And here we are, I'm gonna call Thomas a great waiter to round it off. Gents, shall we get back to the cricket after we, well, you go, "That's the cricket, that's coming." There's another test, a 2020 match against Bangladesh to come at some point this week. And then, obviously aside from the women's wealth, Cup, there will be a new test series. Proper cricket will be back. New Zealand are arriving, having shown Sri Lanka how not to do it. And we're gonna cover that on the next episode. Have you got any thoughts on it before we, well, ahead of next week when we do it properly? And obviously, Kane Williamson's groin is giving him some problems. I think he's doing a David Warner and doing too many dances to South Indian songs. Yeah, David Williamson will not be part of the first test. He's not gonna, in fact, he's still in New Zealand in fact. So, the Hong Kong's finest Mark Chapman's been added to the squad. Tim Sal, these are stepped down as captain after they lost to Sri Lanka. Tom Latham's gonna take over as captain. Michael Brace, while they're quite impressive, spin bowling all round, is only gonna be available for the first test. He's going back to, for, for paternity leave. But yeah, it's sort of, what are they good? You will, you will now end up with a situation where a New Zealand team that looks on paper quite, quite good, but have really, really struggled in this WTC cycle are now coming off, having been, having been beaten quite badly by Sri Lanka coming into, coming into a series with India, Ajar Patel, who obviously was the big headline at last time. Still, by the way, has never taken a wicket at home in test matches. Is he like a, is he like a, well, I mean, he's not taking any, whereas Jesse had taken some, is he like a spin version of Bumra, where Bumra was just killing it abroad, but never really played internally. Classic horses for courses, isn't he? Yeah, he doesn't really, doesn't really play. I imagine, my friend, Ravindra will get quite, we'll get a good reception. Absolutely. When, when he's during, during this series, India have yet to name their squad. So we'll, we'll hopefully time our next podcast for, for after the, the squad gets announced for that first test. I wouldn't imagine too many changes from, from the one against Bangladesh. It doesn't look like Muhammad's Shummi will be fit. Uh, Curran, who, let's, let's, let's take tables at, not exactly, let's just be nice to the other team. Um, who do you want to see do reasonably well? I'm talking like 45 and then chopped on. Um, or, you know, a couple of nice wickets, but still we're slapped around, you know? Roger, Roger, Roger, Roger, Roger, Roger, yeah. Oh, such in probably love child, yeah. No doubt. It's normally the thing I remember, you should have tried me back to, uh, should we say, IPO, not IPO, but 2020 World Cup. Um, one in Vikram Solanki to do quite well. Um, it just kind of happens. You want the Indians to do, you know, half well. Um, but to keep their team, you know, solidarity and all that, uh, Bob, uh, Robert Bipar and all the rest of it, we don't particularly want them to, to, to have a blinder, or if they're having a blinder, have it in a losing course. Hey, you also got, you also are interbiercing Saudi to, to look at. Hm. Use the man, yeah. And in terms of India, do you have any further thoughts on the, the remaining 2020, uh, Garin? Um, and I mean, is there some kind of wild stuff you'd like to see? And obviously then, uh, the New Zealand test as well. Uh, the 220, no, no, whatever, just demolish him. I don't want to stress this hour and a half, not just like a good little breakfast, breakfast match. Um, yeah, I want to only give a shit about win or lose. Um, New Zealand series. Yes, Vera, that's what I want. I want him to have his master class coming into form. The Vera that we know, shout out to Joe Root today for becoming the highest England test run taker. And I heard there's some like weird meteorites or something or like England fans like can't even watch it or see it or. No, no, I don't know. The series is on Skye. Oh, okay. There's some sky here. Said where you can't like tweet. No, no. I'll go ahead and watch one. I thought, I thought, uh, Tienzier in here, all the Indian rights. I'll think I'm up to England match, uh, England. Yeah, England, all the solutions on Skye. Yeah, but now after, after Joe Root is spectacular and whatever, and the world is on their knees for him, um, I want that for Vera. I want that back for Vera. I want him to be the Vera that we know. No seven stump jabs on to Austin for outside edges, something. Just the Vera that we know and love. That's really all I'm fingers crossed for. I think we should win no game. They're in a bit of turmoil. They're, they're still figuring their shit out from top to bottom, I think. So I expect that when I assume I win, uh, beyond that, I want it to be on Vera's back. OK, sounds reasonable. Um, I mean, yeah, I don't think any Indian fans will really argue with you. Uh, right. I think we should leave it there, gentlemen. Um, that's all for this week. Um, in the next episode, we will, of course, delve deeper into the, uh, Indian squad for the test series, uh, with New Zealand, because that will be announced, as Knuckle said, um, I've been joined. I'm Super Joshy joined by Knuckle Bande and Garameta today. Uh, don't forget to hit subscribe and hit follow wherever you find us and, and tell people about us because we're amazing. This is a complete corner saying bye bye. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] (gentle music) You