[MUSIC PLAYING] Good morning to a 4-7-5-9 in the fan base, Brent Gunning. Toronto May believes nine points back in the Bruins for second in the Atlantic Division, but now with three games in hand. Next in action on Thursday, in Philadelphia, against the John Torrella-less Flyers, which is a shame. At least it's not in Toronto. I would hate for Torts to miss an opportunity here in Toronto to speak to the assembled masses. He's going to look at the schedule and be like, that's all he got to do, eh? The owner's going to pay my fine. Right. And I just have to do that to not come to Toronto and talk to you jackals. I feel like he'd gladly-- well, maybe glad I don't feel like he'd gladly does much. But I feel like maybe that's strong, but I don't know. Maybe that's road map for Torts. Anyways, yeah, leave some next in action on Thursday in a game-- 100 years from now. In a game of questionable import to this team as far as the standings are concerned, hard to get too ginned up, considering where the Leafs find themselves in the standings. So we talked about a couple of the things that we're most looking at or most interested in in these final 18 games of the season. What else you got here, Brent? OK, so something that Sheldon Keefe said on Saturday night after the game jumped out to me. And, well, we'll hear that clip. And then I'll tell you where I go with that of my thing to watch for the rest of the regular season. This is a-- it's a key time for Felili, right? If we go back the last two years, each time with the trade deadline, we've added. And it's essentially pushed him out of the lineup, which I thought has affected his growth and his confidence, all those kind of things. And I felt at the time we did it at a necessity, because we needed to get deeper there. But I think Lily's taken a step through this season. The time's just played really well. And it's time to take him a step back. And I think part of that probably is that the trade deadline hanging over his head a little bit. We're through that here now. We've got a veteran player like Edmonton come in. That's why it was important for Lily to play tonight. This is kind of intrigued. Built the team out. This was the six guys that now was built. But we love the depth. But Ben was brought to us and his ability to come in. But Lily playing tonight was important for us to continue to work with him. So that is Sheldon Keefe talking about the Leafs decore, specifically Timothy Lillardgren. And I know some people will hear it as making excuses. I think it's a little bit of that. I also think it's fair to say for a player like Timothy Lillardgren, who's watched himself get booted out of the lineup back-to-back deadlines. Probably was weighing over his head a little bit. And hey, feel free to prove your coach right and start playing better. But that leads me to my question of you heard it from him there. These are the six when tree built the team. So is there anything up for grabs on the blue line? The rest of the way. We've talked, and I know we're going to talk goaltending here in a second, how the team has not definitively made up their mind, but had a clear position that they started from in terms of who they wanted to carry the mail or at least be the guy goaltending wise. Seems pretty clear now. You tell me, reading between the lines, is that a guy who's happy with that? Is that a guy who's doing what he's told? But I think a lot of people would have been shocked after the deadline to find out that Timothy Lillegrine is not in pencil, not in pen, but like, sharpie. To start the postseason, I think he can play his way out of that. I wonder whether he can play his way out of that in the remaining 18 games of the regular season. I guess if he continues to look like he's looked at times recently, boy, it'd be hard to deny Simon Benoit, jump back in the lineup, unfortunately for him, despite the fact that he shoots the wrong hand, right? Timothy Lillegrines. Well, it doesn't have to be him. Like Joel Edmondson could shoot with the wrong hand too, right? Sure. You trade a farm so you're going to play. Yeah. Yeah, this is hugely important for Timothy Lillegrine. When I don't like hearing it, I know he's a young player and he's still trying to establish himself, but like, yeah, these are professional athletes. Like, the confidence thing is scary, right? Like, when we're talking about a player that has taken a step this season who's no longer a rookie, who's, yeah, he hasn't started in all the postseason games. He does have postseason experience for this team. He was given an elevated role, especially with Morgan Riley out, that you're still talking about a guy going into Friday's trade deadline who's worried about the specter of being shipped out of town and that's impacting his play negatively. Okay, well then, we better see something different here down the stretch. That's scary. This is because it's, I don't believe still do control him beyond this season, but this is, this feels very much like a hinge point in his Toronto Maple Leafs career, because what are you going to do with Timothy Lillegrine? How comfortable are you going to feel going into next season where again, the stakes are not quite Stanley Cup or Boss, but pretty close to it that that's a guy that you think can compete in your top four for Stanley Cup contender. If he, if the pressures of what he's being asked to do is already overwhelming him, I'm not quite, I'm not quite there. I just pulled it up because if you would have told me the number was 300 games, just given how much he'd been around, I'd believe it. He's played 186 games in his NHL career. That's not nothing, but, you know, that everyone has their different benchmarks for some people, it's age, for some people, it's games played. But the idea, and I'm not saying you're doing this, but the idea of making up your mind on what an NHL player is, especially a defenseman with not even 200 games under their belt is a great way to get burned. I do give more credence to the confidence stuff. I think part of it is that specifically with this Leafs team, it's been such a Stars and Scrubs model. He is one of the few guys who's supposed to toe the line where he can be a good, I won't say middling, but a good mid player on your team where he's not your best defenseman, but he is somebody who is a part of the solution. We just get so bought, or we forget what it looks like. Look at Matthew Nye's. Look at the growth he has shown in his season in the NHL. It's been pretty minimal here. So I think with a player like Lillegrine, I understand the confidence thing. I understand it coming going. We have seen times from this player this season where he's been a infinitely better version of himself than what you're seeing right now. And just because it doesn't immediately, oh, okay, trade deadline's done. Time to snap it around and be the best version of myself. I don't know that it's as much of a hinge point. The only thing I differ on that is that it goes back to what we talked about all the time. It's a different guy. And I think it's a hinge point because it's a new GM here. I think that Brad for a living will want to put his imprint on the team. We've talked about what he likes on the blue line, generally speaking, not defenders like Lillegrine. So I am not as worried by the confidence stuff as you. - Okay, and to your point about, hey, this is the six guys and where we believe Sheldon keeps brain as that. - Mm-hmm. - I, I'm sorry. I think the guy wants to play Seymour Benoit. I think you think, you think, I think. And if that comes at the expense of your young goalie, or your young defenseman who you're right, like, you got to be careful with those guys, not to give them away, especially when they, they do shoot with the right hand. - You can give them away like you did Rasmus and Dean, like you gave them away and you get Easton Cowan, not saying they're doing that, but like you can give them away and it still be the right decision. But yeah, you just got to be careful. - Yeah. - I think, and Sheldon Keef has been low to do this. I think any, actually, they talk about Sheldon Keef as a guy like, oh, he doesn't necessarily want to do things with the bigger picture in mind. He just wants to win that, that day is hockey game. That's like every, it's called the hockey. - Yeah, that's everybody. But I will say, if there's one area where, and he's probably been pushed in this direction where it's like, hey, Sheldon, I know you think your best six defenseman involved Seymour Benoit and not that you are totally out on Timothy Lillegrine, but he would be the guy on the outside looking in. We need to know, would be because at his best, to get another puck mover, because some of the guys that we brought in are not exactly that, they're going to be able to hack people away from the front of the net, but not exactly going to make beautiful breakout passes or be a nice fallback option on the power play of Morgan Riley. You decide to pluck him away. Again, remember, this Leafs power play at its best was without Morgan Riley running that top unit. Yeah, that guy is a nice little change of pace on the blue line that we'd like to have, but not at the expense of him being a complete liability and not showing any confidence. But you're not going to be able to convince me that he doesn't think the top, his best six defenseman involved Seymour Benoit and probably right now, not Timothy Lillegrine. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that. And I think Sheldon Keefe would be right to think that. I also think it's going to, I don't think it matters if it's Boston or Florida. Like if it's one of those teams, I think it's a pretty similar lineup in there, but we get so bogged down in the idea of, well, who are the right defenseman? And yeah, generally speaking, there's a right six to have in there your best six, but different strokes for different folks. Like you will have different teams. If you're playing a team that kind of wants to run around, it's a less physical team. And not that you're going to see a ton of that in the playoffs, but there are teams that play that style than it is more of a Lillegrine series. And just to lay out my cards on the table, I think the milkman should be in. I think Simone Benoit has done everything to deserve that spot. And most importantly, I think you need to show guys on this team specifically, and Bobby McMahon's the other poster child for this, that if you come in, it doesn't matter where you came from. It doesn't matter if you were taking off the scrap heap, or you used to play in the ECH. - Sports or a meritocracy. - It's supposed to be, it's supposed to be. And I think that taking out a guy like Simone Benoit proves the exact opposite of that. It's like, I'm not going to, it's not the end of the world. Simone Benoit is not perfect. He can sit for a night. He shouldn't have sat in his hometown in Montreal, and he shouldn't have been the first guy to come out though. - Yeah, and we'll see if the play doesn't turn around for Timothy Lillegrine. - That's an interesting point too. Like, do you run a risk of some sideways glances? - Look how beloved that guy is in the room. And I'm not going to pretend to know one way or another if they like Lillegrine or not. I feel like he at times doesn't even feel like he's part of the team. Like in all the videos you see, it's like, he's even allowed to look at the belt. I know he's never going to get it, but he's not even in like the fun friend pictures that they all love to take with it. Feels like Simone Benoit is in the middle of everything there. And that's not nothing. Like the personalities and what guys believe, all that matters. - All right, one more before we move on to a different topic. How much do they force the Joseph Wall thing? Because it's like speaking of it not being a meritocracy for everything when it comes to the head coach, I think if it was a meritocracy and you were operating like a team that was desperate for the two points, you'd have given Ilya Sampsonov more of a straightforward run this past week than he got. Now I understand there was a back-to-back there with Buffalo and Boston, but yeah, him not getting, I think the number one obvious standout moment was him not getting the start in the first Boston game, coming off the game against the Rangers, right? That it was Joseph Wall getting a second start since coming back from the high ankle sprain. That seems to be this team's modus operandi that they understand the contractual status and one guy's under contract and one guy's not. And that even one guy's ceiling might be higher than another guy's and that they would like given their druthers for Joe Wall to really take the reins and run with it. How much do they force that? Because Ilya Sampsonov looks pretty good right now and he's factually the only goal that went on playoff series in 20 years for this organization. Like how much do you have to defer to that besides doing what you think might ultimately be best for the long-term vision of this team and even the short-term of winning a postseason series? How much can you just like not deny the fact that, oh, Ilya Sampsonov is the guy that beat the lightning in six games. He's been in those big moments for this team and actually succeeded under extreme pressure. Forget like a bunch of overtime games and boy, Ilya Sampsonov made some big saves as part of the reason why the Maple Leafs, it was a disaster, but not an abject disaster in the postseason last year. How much do they force the issue with Joe Wall down the stretch? So looking at the schedule, as we know, it will be a hundred years until they play when they play Thursday in Philly, then they got the Hurricanes on Saturday. I think he gives Sampsonov the net on Thursday for sure, given everything he has done there. And then I think so long as he continues to be what he's been, he gets the start again on Saturday against the Hurricanes and then you split the back-to-back. And then I think the way the Leafs are gonna look at this is almost in week or two-week segments or when's the next back-to-back and then you reassess where you're at. I think Joe Wall will still have an opportunity, but he's going to have to be infinitely better to kind of take the reins from Sampsonov. And part of that is because of how good Sampsonov's been. If he goes back to a ho-hum version of himself, then I think it's easier for Wall to supplant him. But if Sampsonov stays to be this version of the guy, I think Joe Wall will have to be stand on his head, transcendin' good to take the net back heading into the playoffs. >> Emilia Sampsonov wins on Thursday in Philadelphia. >> Okay, is it just win though or just style points matter with him? >> Come on, you can't look at me like the possibility of the Leafs winning a game in which he gives up five or four is in the possibility. >> Okay, yeah, because he was winning games. >> It's an important question. >> I mean, he had an above five, like he had a pretty good record when he was sent down to the Marley. >> The winning percentage was above 500 and the save percentage was below it. >> Yeah, yeah, it was very close. >> Okay, if he allows fewer than three goals or fewer in a Maple Leafs victory, let's just say that he's part of the reason why. >> Sure. >> The Maple Leafs beat the Flyers on Thursday and doesn't start in that game against Carolina on Saturday, then the answer is on this. >> You're kicking your hand, yeah. >> Yeah, that like, 'cause I get it last week. Hey, Joe Wall, he's coming back off of a high ankle sprain. Yeah, you don't wanna push him, but you also don't want him sitting around. Okay, so we got that started, played a couple of times against the Bruins and it didn't look so great. And I understand it will also be almost two weeks between starts and he only gets the start in the back to back, but so what? You also don't, like he's the guy with the greater injury history too, right? Like you do wanna protect him. If Ilya Sampsonov looks good on Thursday against the Flyers in a victory and he's not starting against the Carolina Hurry Games in one of the rare games that matter, measuring stick type games for this Leafs team down the stretch, then yeah, you've really, you've told us a lot with that deployment. >> What a, God, I'm just looking at the schedule and I apologize to you in advance, but what an odd schedule for the Leafs have. They have this big break here. And then next week, back to back Tuesday, Wednesday, and then they don't play again until back to back Saturday, Sunday. I think that is the saving grace for Joseph Wall is also if you look at that back to back and this is the one at the end of the month. So this is a couple of weeks from now, March 23rd, March 24th at home to the Oilers, that in Carolina is they're going to split those games. And either one of those games has a chance to be a statement game, if you can perform well, just given the competition. And as I've said, we're now doubt only six or seven of these games that matter. >> The games don't matter yet for the Toronto Blue Jays because it's March, middle of March. Well, don't say it's March because they will matter in March. >> Yeah, that's true. It'll be two weeks from Thursday that they're playing their first regular season game in Tampa against the Rays, although Joey Votto is going to start playing in spring games pretty soon. That'll be exciting. That'll be a must watch. >> Oh my God, did you just get excited about something? >> Oh yeah. >> You're going to be okay? And I know your heart could get there other than when you're mad at me, I didn't know. >> Yeah, no, I don't know if I'm protecting myself, but or just being a realist. >> No, we've talked about things. >> You can't get excited about things. We've talked about things. >> It's difficult. It's difficult for me. And maybe it's a defense mechanism. But yeah, I just, I can't do it. >> [LAUGH] >> That being said, ESPN releasing its top 100 Major League Baseball players. >> Where's Votto? Where is he? >> He's not okay. >> He's a snub. >> No. >> He's not quite. It was quite bad the last two years. As I said, and as my defense as to why he matters, not so much to the Blue Jays. But yeah, he can still be great. Anyways, Boba Shedt is the top ranked Toronto Blue Jays at number 33. Two spots ahead of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at 35. Kevin Gossman, the only other Blue Jays receiving votes, he was 51. So you want to know where the Blue Jays were at this time a season ago? Because ESPN finding the exact perfect moment in the sporting calendar to release this thing for content purposes. >> They did. >> Last year, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Was the top ranked Blue Jays at 16. >> 16. >> Percipitous decline. >> Boba Shedt was there, but he was at 49. Alec Manoa was 51. >> Wow. >> George Springer was 63. So, in comes Kevin Gossman, out goes Alec Manoa and George Springer. And flip-flopping Boba Shedt and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Brent, your initial reaction to these updated rankings are what? >> Well, the first thing that must be said is that this is done for engagement. Like, Vladimir and Bo are not placed so close together for no reason at all. Like, we have to just like throw that in there. But this is a great view of, and the answer is, I generally think the local market has the closer feel or the better answer. But this is just a, this shows you exactly the difference between national import or the way guys are viewed versus how we view them here. If you ask the people of Toronto to list the best, the best 100 baseball players in Major League Baseball, how big would the gap be between Vladi and Bo and how many people after last year, I'm not getting into right or wrong, but wouldn't, wouldn't even want Vladi on that list after what they saw. Now, part of that's expectations. But that's the thing that jumps out to me is that they're not two spots apart if he asked most people in this market to do that list. And the fact that Beshette is, again, I think sometimes because of the team success and the lack thereof and the fact that Beshette has been consistent over the course of seasons, but has always had, be it an injury or a downstart to the year. I don't think people quite realize the respect level he has across baseball. So on one hand, I think Vladi gets a little more recognition than he deserves. And on the other, I think Beshette, it's a feather in the cap for him. But I also think if you do this list three months from now, it's not under the realm of possibility at all that Beshette climbs it in somewhat speaking a big way. >> So I have a bad memory in general, but here's what I remember. My conversation, I had surrounding the release of this list a year ago. And not to pat myself on the back too hard, but it was like, what are we doing here? >> Watch the shoulder. >> That Vlad is the top ranked Bluejay and that there's such a large separation between he and Bo Beshette. And yeah, you can talk about Vlad not being in the top 100 as being kind of ridiculous, but being that high and being that close to Bo Beshette is a little curious considering the position he plays and not necessarily the total offensive output. But yeah, the total package of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. It was barely above average baseball player, not to say that he can't be better than that. But like what we've seen in the last couple of years outside of that 2021 season. Yeah, you can have that argument as to his viability is even a top 50 baseball player in Major League Baseball. But at least Bo Beshette ahead of him, like at least that perception is starting to match the reality. Bo Beshette plays the most premium position defensively outside of Catcher at an average two slightly above averages, depending on the metric. >> No one loves to rip his defense more than me and he's improved. At worst, he's an average defender at a premium position. He's only going to kill you as a short stop. And if he doesn't get hurt down the stretch last year is three consecutive years leading the American League in hits. Like this is a guy that yeah, the Dodgers rightly are keying on the Blue Jays and maybe we can get to that in just a second as Jeff Blair. Yeah, alluding to the fact that the Dodgers are so desperate to have somebody play shortstop that Mookie Betts was like, wow, what an incredible deal that he's moving from right field to second base. And now it's like, no, no, now you're playing shortstop. But yeah, they're very much hoping for the downfall of the Toronto Blue Jays and that yeah, with no extension coming for Bo Beshette, he shipped over to California. >> Just when you couldn't hate him anymore. >> Right, so get ready for a Dodgers team that employs Shoe Heotani and Bo Beshette in the not too distant future. Anyways, that's besides the point. You notice some guy just like careened off the road, right? >> Yeah, I mean, that's not going to happen if the Blue Jays are good and I don't know if they're necessarily great, but I don't think they're bad, right? As long as the pitching stays healthy. Anyways, the perception, I think before this season, we talked about it with Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. being the cover boy for MLB The Show this season was that, oh, this is Vlad's team. And Vlad is really quite amazing and he is and the story has not been totally written with him. But I think this is an indication that everybody's starting to understand what's happened here and 2021 is a long time ago. And not to say that he can't re reach that. But here's the thing about Bo Beshette and his performance at the major league level since he arrived. It's been pretty consistent. Start to finish. He's been this guy. And at that position, considering the same pressures that surround him, that surround Vladimir Guerrero Jr. He's been the guy that has performed year over year over year. And while I do think there's a bigger gap than two spots in the top 100 that Bo Beshette maybe you can quibble with him being too low on this list. I think the fact that he's ahead of Vlad is something that you, well, factually you haven't seen in the past, but also an indication of where the baseball media is at in an overall sense between these two guys. And that's not insignificant. No, it's not. And I also think that the fact that they're only two spots apart also shows how ready they are to be sucked in by Vlad. And like, I don't say that as though it's a bad thing. This was a guy who is, again, we've talked so much about him, but not that far removed from an almost MVP season that, yeah, of course, you should be ready to get sucked back in by Vlad. If he looks like that Vlad at any point in time, so yeah, I think it'll be, it'll be interesting. And then, you know, we'll talk about this all year long, but just the, the dynamic of what that means. It's very interesting when two guys come up together, but not, we've seen it with the Leafs. It hasn't been an issue of the Matthews and Marner of it all, where, hey, they're all coming up together. But we know who the lead dog is here. Imagine if that flipped and that's kind of what's happened with the Blue Jays. Also imagine that you had two guys inside the top 100 and Alec Manoa and George Springer a season ago that are like not just like falling down the rankings out of them entirely. And from Manoa, you're like, oh, maybe his career's over. Like maybe he's never a factor at the Major League level yet again. And, and George Springer, I mean, he has to play because he's getting paid. And even if he's an average offense player, he's going to play. But man, that's, that's, that's pretty stark. And you can say, well, Kevin Gossman jumped into the top 100. Kevin Gossman, maybe you could have made the argument should have been there last year. The only reason he wasn't because the sample was small and you didn't know what you were going to get out of that outstanding season in San Francisco. I think we know if Kevin Gossman's healthy, that's what he is this season. But yeah, tough one when you're losing two top 100 guys that basically are just disappearing from your roster. Yeah, there's one other tough one. And it was a guy who disappeared from the roster in the number 93 Gabriel Moreno. That's tough. Yeah, that's a worse vart shell on the list. Yeah, he's not there. Oh, okay. But he wasn't even a snub. He's a, he was snubbed as a snub. Yeah. Of a snub. Let's remember this conversation a year from now because maybe he's 10. Who knows? You want to, you want to set up? No, I would not like to do that. All right. When we come back, we'll talk to Anthony Petreli of Maple Leafs Hotstove as the fan morning show continues, Ben and his Brian Gunning Sportsnet 5-9 to the fan. Dive deep into Toronto Sports and the NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Ben Morning Show Sportsnet 5-9 to the fan, Ben Eddas, Brian Gunning Leafs, Flyers, not today, not tomorrow, Thursday. One day, one day, the Leafs will play a hockey game again. And then on hockey night in Canada against Jake Genssel's Carolina Hurricanes, of course, Genssel's not going to be in the lineup. Like, I don't know when they expect to happen back, but certainly not Sydney Crosby's Carolina Hurricanes. Not happy about that. Anywho, um, 18 games were made for the Toronto Maple Leafs before the real season starts and the post season. Let's talk to Anthony Petreli of Maple Leafs Hotstove. How's it going, Anthony? I'm good guys. How about you? Good. So we just ran down a couple of the things we're most interested in evaluating over these last 18 games of the regular season. What's number one for you? Probably Timothy Lowgren, to be honest, he's a huge wild card for the team and it's kind of been interesting to hear Sheldon Keefe actually just talk about him the past couple of days. He seems to really be going out of his way to prop him up. Like, if there's some confidence issues, which it seems like there is, if you just watch him play hockey lately, he's struggling a little bit out there. And Timothy Lowgren has mentioned, you know, coming back from the injury has been a little bit tough for him and he struggled and Sheldon Keefe has mentioned, you know, past deadlines where they've brought guys in and bumped him out of the lineup and he's been a healthy scratch. And, you know, the reality is they don't, you know, the only other right-handed defenseman's Iliya Labushkin and Lowgren's 24. He's turning 25. He's close to 200 games played in the league. His contract is expiring. He's a restricted free agent. Like, you know, it kind of seems like it's time. Like, he's got to either cement himself or they've got to make a decision. And, you know, the rest of the lineup, I think a lot of it, you kind of know what to expect. But he is a true wild card, but at the same time, he's someone they legitimately need to play good hockey and provide some offense, which they really, really lack and be a good right-handed defenseman, which they also really lack. So he would be top of the list for me, I think. Yeah, that was the, that was the where I zeroed in on as well. I'm sure you heard the comment from Keefe after Saturday's game about how, yeah, this is the six. This is how Tree built the team out. Let's try to climb inside a Sheldon Keefe's noggin. Do we think if he had his druthers, and, you know, I'm not saying that Brad should live his place in a call and tell him who to play, but I don't know, based on those comments, maybe, maybe he is. I think if Sheldon Keefe just had his druthers and can play the six best defenseman or the six defenseman he wanted to, I imagine Simone Benoit would be a part of that. Like, how much do you think this is in flux versus them having to a certain extent already having made up their mind for the start of the playoffs? A little bit. I mean, I think Benoit is, I mean, I love and totally respect everything that he has done for the team this year. And so, you know, I don't want to take away from that, but I do think that we've seen some of some cracks in him lately, and which I think are valid to bring up and be concerned about it through the Leafs, right? Like he's not a steady hand veteran or say he's still very much a young guy who's, you know, he's never played an important game in the NHL until this year. But that's the reality when you come from a really bad Anaheim Ducks team. And so, you were kind of seeing some moments of late where it's like, they play Arizona and he fans on pucks up the middle of the ice and they go back down the ice and they score. And he opens up the gates there. They play Vegas and Mike Amadio sneaks behind them and they score. And, you know, even they played Buffalo last week. And if the end of the game, there's 30 seconds left. Instead of him getting the puck out, he makes a week play up the wall. Buffalo turns it over. Rasmus Dallien takes a shot. It was some sort of weird deflection, and Sam's not bailed him out. And like, that's the Buffalo savers. Like, that's not, you know, I think everyone's seen that movie before you turn that puck over against Boston 30 seconds left. It's probably not. You're like, you're not going to like how it ends up. So, I think as much as, you know, I think that's a, it's a heartstrings one with Benoit or it's like, you want to play and reward him. You've been such a pleasant surprise. But at the same time, how, how great do you really feel about it? So, yeah, you could make the argument that could have just ran him instead of trading some extra picks for Joel Edmondson. But at the same time, I understand why they're trying to get a veteran beside Timothy Loegrin to maybe calm him down to some degree. Yeah. How do you feel about like confidence being part of the discussion around Timothy Loegrin? And I get it. He's a young player. But yeah, it's, um, nobody's going to hand you confidence. And, and if you don't have it at this point in, in your career, albeit to Brent said, you know, we think of him as, as being just part of the furniture and injuries have been a part of limiting his, his total number of games played, but he is still a young player. What do you think when you hear and, and rightly so, I mean, the, the eye test would match this. The confidence is part of Timothy Loegrin's deal here. Yeah, he had a bit of a weird comment. I saw yesterday where I guess he was asked or framed some sort of question like, you know, like you're in, you know, you're in the top six. They didn't really acquire anyone to, you know, like it's not like past deadlines, basically. And his answer was along the lines of, well, they still acquired two demand. Like, it's no different than any other deadline. And I was like, man, like, they're, they're handing this to you. Like, this is legitimately on a platter for you. And, and what, like, you're, are you, like, are you complaining that they acquired Elio Buskin and Joel Edmondson to like what to fight you for minutes? Because that's not what happened here. So like, you're right, like the confidence thing is like it, it definitely seems compounded to some degree. And you don't usually see Sheldon Keefe go out of the way, the way that he has in the past few days to comment on a player like that, right? Like that, you know, he, the second time when he brought up Timothy Loegrin yesterday and in terms of like, you know, needing to get going and important in time for him, like, he wasn't even asked about Timothy Loegrin. Like, that wasn't even the question. So yeah, like there, there's definitely something confidence-wise going on right now. And it really just feels like he just needs to calm down, like, just calm down and play talking and be yourself and relax to some degree. And I feel like Sheldon's trying to set that environment for him where it's like, look like you're in the lineup. Like, you know, like, no one's going to get you, just like, relax, get back into your game and get going here. Like, we need you, you're important. That kind of, you know, motivational side of things. And, but yeah, like the confidence issues seem very, very real at this point. The problem is, and I don't know if you two guys have experience with this is generally speaking, telling someone to calm down. My wife loves that. It doesn't always kind of goes the exact opposite way. All right, we talked a lot about the defense here. I'm sure we'll talk a lot about the goalies, but I want to go upfront. The Leafs went away from their three centers and they kind of loaded up the top six in a way you would have maybe expected them to without Marner in the lineup. Do we think the idea of three centers is something they're ready to roll with or is maybe the guy, because the way I look at it is the guy who has the biggest say into who's going to play third line center isn't Max Stomier, John Tavares, but it's actually David Camp. If he can be the David Camp of old, I think they're much more open to the idea of a top six that we've seen most of this season. What do you expect them to do by the time playoffs shake out with the with the top? I mean, the fourth line will will sort itself out, but do you expect David Camp to kind of be a third line center? Or do you think they'll go with Matthews, Domie and Tavares down down the middle? It's a good question. I think I think it's as much on campus. It also is on Max Domie. They gave Domie a real run for all intents and purposes, the second line center. Probably heard Justin Warren harp on it all the time. He struggles defensively. That line was calling them Jekyll and Hyde would be a nice way of describing it. When the puck basically crossed center, it was tough to watch in terms of the defensive zone. Are they willing to trot out offense, boom or bust, which is basically what it was when it was Nieland or Domie Bertuzzi? I don't think that they could justify going to that exact line combination, but I think essentially if you're rolling out Domie at center based on the makeup of the Leafs wingers, you're basically going to have a line that you can't trust. And so if they're going, I don't think that I think that's as important as also can David camp, hold up his end of the bargain, which is to move the puck well and not be essentially an anchor if he's going to play with side skilled players. And at the same time provide good defensive hockey. He's been one of the tougher people to evaluate. I know everyone was really hard on them coming out of big contract. The start of the year, the fourth line was bad. And look at who he was playing with though. Noah Gregor, who's probably not going to have a realistic place in the lineup, who was also training camp, PTO signing. So the whole league had a chance of them all summer and no one wanted it. And he was also just cut from the worst team in the league. And Ryan Reeves, who also really struggled, especially early on, when he's had good line mates, he's generally been pretty good. When he had Ilya McKayov on his wing, he was good. And people talk all the time about cheering ball and camp and how they were solid together. It's like, they're only paying camp, like $2.4 million, which that's not a lot of money to say go drive a line. That's like enough money to say be part of the line. And he showed and he can do that. So I think it's just a matter of if they can find guys that fit with his game. But I did actually quite like that. Nice. McMahon can't fly one game. It's Montreal. But I thought that was their best line on Saturday night. Yeah. And I was just running down the list of Toronto Maple Leafs goals per 60 at five on five leaders and Bobby McMahon fourth on this team. And maybe you can look at that as an outlier and not sustainable. But what do you think Bobby McMahon is? Because there's a big decision to be made here. He's an unrestricted free agent of the conclusion of this season. Yeah. I mean, if nothing else, I think he's a legitimate NHLer. Like he, like, he is an NHL hockey player. So that was probably the biggest question he had to answer first and foremost this year. Right. He got the 10 games then last year. He didn't have a point in those 10 games. He kind of flashed a little bit and then died down. And then that was the end of that. And we never heard from him again last year. And he came up this year and it was kind of fourth line fodder at the beginning. And, you know, he made, he added some legitimacy to that line speaking of David Camp and not having line mates. But, you know, it was a, it was a buried fourth line in the defensive zone with Ryan Reeves on it or Noah Gregor, like, take your pick and really matter. And, you know, he didn't do much and then finally moved up and produced. Like, I think he's a, he should be at at minimum, like a solid, like 30-ish point winger that can, you know, you can trust defensively. We saw him at the end of the game he has to have. He makes a big play on the wall to, to lift a guy and ensure the puck gets out with like five seconds or 10 seconds left and ice the game. Like, they've trusted him a little bit in those scenarios. The empty neck goal against the blues. Like, you can put him out in kind of any situation. I don't think he's a top line power play, unique guy or anything along those lines. But, you know, what, I think he's had 19 points and 10 goals and 40 games. That pace might be a little high and a little generous. He did have that, that heater, but he should be a solid productive NHLer and he's big and he's fast and he's strong and he's kind of, you know, right at that age, like 27, 28. I think you got a few good years out of him. Yeah, certainly. I think it's possible also it's, you know, and I know this isn't like an apples to apples comparison, but it's not lost on me that, you know, Michael Bunting, he plays 25 to 30 games has a kind of similar like points percentage or points per game. And he gets two years at 950 K and there are people talking about Bobby McMahon rightfully. So, like he could be looking at a, you know, a ticket, not massive by any means, but a little bigger than that. It's the beauty and the pain of the, the spotlight in Toronto. One guy who takes a lot of the spotlight rightfully so even when he's not in the lineup is Mitch Marner. I'm sure this has been a topic of conversation in your world as well as mine. Kind of curious, the least record without Marner. It's great without Riley in the lineup. It's great without Matthews in the lineup and they are barely above a 500 clip without Marner. Is that a quirk of this team? Does it say anything about the player? What, if anything, do you, do you make of those numbers at all? I honestly, I think it's a good reminder sometimes for people just in general that these are really good players and like their impact guys. I mean, the reality is Matthews, Marner, Nielander, pretty much since they've came up with the Leafs of like, you know, knock on wood. None of them have suffered a catastrophic injury at any point. Like generally speaking, those guys have been in the lineup more often than not. And, you know, the reality is when you don't win in the playoffs the way that they have and you're seeing the same names all the time. I think people, you know, I think it feels stale to people and they get tired of seeing the same names and, you know, it's associated with failure and they're just so quick to, at times, dismiss these players when the reality is like they are like, Marner is an excellent hockey player. Like he is an elite hockey player. And he touches so many aspects of the game that like nobody else on the team has deployed the way that he is in terms of the penalty kill, the power play, not only the minutes of five on five, but what he's asked to do at five on five, right? And you look at it with Matthews and Marner in the way that they kind of been running at the past few years. Like they don't hide those guys from anybody. In fact, like they actively will employ them against the other team's top players and not only expect them to take care of business offensively, but to also do it defensively. Like there's very few players that in the league that are really asked to do what he does. And I hope sometimes, you know, it's like it's almost good. You know, it's like absence makes the heart grow fonder kind of thing like, like for people who appreciate like how good some of these guys are because you hear there's a lot of negativity towards the team, but like they are a good team. And like he's an elite player, Matthews and elite player, Newlanders and elite player, like, like there's a lot here that it doesn't probably get the credit that it deserves. I'm not going to make you guess as to which goalie is going to be better down the stretch, Joseph Waller, Ilya Samsonov, because they're both goalies. And yeah, who the hell knows, honestly, but how would you deploy them down the stretch? Because it feels like there's a little bit of a forcing of a Joseph Wall into the equation. And I understand you want to get them some reps coming off the injury. But how would you deploy those two goalies in these final 18 games? I probably just ride the hot hand at this rate. Like, you know, it's the NHL. There's like a month left in the season. You're gearing up for playoffs. You know, Samsonov was again, excellent on like, you know, I know that he got Buffalo and Montreal and Wall got Boston twice. So it's not, again, it's not apples to apples. But like, Samsonov had to be really good in both those games. Like, he had to be way better than he realistically should have had to have been. And he was. So to me, he would get the next game against Philly, which I think, you know, if I had to guess, I think that's what they would do anyway. And if he's excellent, I give him the next game. And if he's like anything lower than excellent, I'd be like, all right, Joseph Waller gets the start. And to just kind of view it from that, if Waller was excellent back game, then I'd give him the next one. Like, it's a back-to-back after that anyway. So they're going to split them regardless. But, you know, I think you just kind of ride it out and see what happens. You have Wall on one hand who is more of that like calm, studying presence type of goal, which I think has a nice trickle-down effect throughout the roster. And then you have Samsonov, who, you know, I know that he can be over-aggressive. We'll call it in the net, but at the same time, like, we talked about this before on the show, even back when he was struggling, like, he was lights out in the playoffs last year. Like, he is number one reason they beat Tampa, like number one by far. So, you know, like, are you going to be upset if he starts game one? I don't think so. No, I wouldn't be. But yeah, again, they're goalies. So, who the hell knows? We made up a position. I'll tell you how upset I am about it at the conclusion of game one. No, no thoughts for me beforehand. All right. Totally made up position. You can read Anthony Petrielli on Leaf's notebook on Mapleleaf's hot stove.com. Anthony, always a pleasure. Thanks for doing this, man. Thanks for having me on guys. Appreciate it. Anthony Petrielli, it's interesting to think about Ilya Samsonov's free agency. And I think the dye is largely cast with him and his Mapleleaf's future either way, because they have a goalie under contract in Joseph Wall for less than a million bucks next season. And probably just going to walk away from Ilya Samsonov. But like, what if he is, again, the postseason starter and has this incredible run? And if they win a cup, it's like, who cares? That's not a discussion. It's worth having. Give them a billion dollars if they give everybody all the money. It doesn't matter. But like, say he's, again, like, really good. And the reason why they win, not just one round. Yeah. Brent, get this. No, no, no. More than one round. Like God forbid. Nice knowing you all, because I will die before that happens. But go ahead. God forbid, like, get to a cup final or something. Or a Western conference final. It's like, and that's like a seven game series. And we're like, Oh, it's like it's maybe it's happening. It's so made up. You put him in the West final. That's how unlikely it is. Is that what I said? Yeah. That would be amazing. I mean, again, it's just as likely of these files. But yeah, I mean, that'll be an interesting conversation. If Joseph Wall is not a factor in the Leafs having some postseason success this year, and it's Ilya Samsonov, the only guy that's been able to do it. And over a two year span that you like do forget the first half of the season, because it's irrelevant and believe people's track record. Go look at Brad triliving teams and it's not to say he'll build all the teams here. Like, he built the teams in Calgary. He's paid for his goalies. He's not afraid to do that. So I don't, I'm with you. I think it's largely cast, but I don't know. Samsonov leads them to not like the promised land, but a nice land. Yeah. Then I could see it happening. The other thing, are you good on goalies? I want to sneak one more thing in here. Mitch Marner. So miss miss the game on Saturday, potentially missing the game on Thursday. That has him at a just below a 97 point pace. I want him to get it. I mean, either that or finish at 99 again, just for comedy's sake. But God, you'd love to see him get it. That's a shame. It is. We'll see. There's plenty of point games to come later on this season. All right, time now for the wake and rake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. Why don't we take this moment to have a look at the Stanley Cup odds after the trade deadline? So the Florida Panthers are your favorites at plus 650. They're plus 300 to win the Eastern Conference, the Edmonton Oilers. Second favorites of plus 750 avalanche, also plus 750 hurricanes plus 900 golden nights. Some value to be had there, I guess. You're looking to cup winners plus 900. They're plus 550 to win the Western Conference. I mean, they have to make the playoffs first. Yeah. You got to go down a little ways to see the Toronto Maple Leafs at plus 1400. The Leafs also plus 600 to win the Eastern Conference. Brian, anything stand out to you there? Well, somebody who jumped on the Golden Knights the second the Noah Hanif and trade was about to be consummated. Yeah, that's the one that providing value wise. Yeah, I like them there. You know, it's not, it's not great value, but all of these are decent value. If you like the team, the avalanche of plus 750, I like that number as well. And then honestly, kind of, kind of nuts to say. But if you do want value, Jets can ask good teams and they got a goal. Yeah. Yeah. Jets with maybe the best goalie of the bunch there. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Like Demko is Demko is just as lively. Yeah. But he is just as liable to get to get hot as a hell you buck is. But yeah, I think value wise, it's the you got to go down the list. And the Leafs being plus 1400 kind of tells you everything you need to know because it just a little insight in the way this things work. If Leafs are public team, they get bet on a lot. And that kind of tells you where where their odds are at. So I'm not biting on that one. Yeah. The Golden Knights not being the Western Conference favorites. And I get it. Right. Like again, they do have to factually make the playoffs, which I think they're going to do without Mark Stone, who's going to remain on LTIR. You would think the remainder of the regular season with his last rated spleen sounds tough. But yeah, acquiring the players that they did. And I guess we got to see Thomas hurdle on the ice as well at some point. But yeah, that's plus 550 to win the Western Conference for the defending champs who were the most active team of the deadline. That's your best value. Sounds pretty good to me. All right. That was the Wakenrake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. The NFL's free agent window. The legal tampering period is underway right now. Nothing can be officially officialized until tomorrow. But we know where everybody's gone pretty much. And there is some wild movement already. We'll talk to Charles Davis, the NFL on CBS and NFL Network next is the fan morning show continues Ben and his Brent Gunning sports that five 90 to
