I'm glad to have you with me and hello to everybody here at home. We have something a little bit different, a little bit fun. I think here today, I guess we'll find out. Please introduce yourself. Who are you? What do you do? And why are you here today? Well, my name is Kimmy. I've known Adam for a very long time. I work at a social media company as a head of production. And I've had some relationship issues. So I kind of convinced Adam, because he's so expensive and I can't afford him, I basically just asked him if we could do some type of conversation, doesn't have to be formal or anything that crazy, just wanted something simple, he can help me figure out the problems that I have. That's exactly why I'm here today. You need help. I need help. Cool. No problem. Let's go to dinner after this. You'll owe me a hamburger. But that's it. Free coaching. I don't care. Okay. Talk to me about what's going on in your relationship. In particular, what is it that you're wanting to change? Well, it has been a cycle of relationships one after the other after the other after the other. And I've been always looking for something consistent. I have been in so many different relationships, trying to find something serious. I always wanted something serious. Pause for a moment there. You're telling me that you've been in a cycle of relationships over and over and over and over and over and we're looking for one consistent thing. How long has this pattern been going on for you for this wide range of consistent dating? Eight years. Eight years. How old are you? 28. 28. So you turned 20 and all of a sudden started dating every woman you could find. No, no, I was I was pretty consistent about like everyone I have been with since the age of 20 was like, are you sure I'm only in this for something long term, something serious. And I tried every single possible way, like I would go, okay, maybe younger girls are not serious enough for me, I'm going to go with someone older. I got a relationship with someone who had had two kids, way older than me, probably like 10 years older than me, they didn't work younger than me, they didn't work from this country, they didn't work from this country, they didn't work. How many women have you dated in eight years? Not many, not many, I would say maybe like between five and ten. Between five and ten in eight years, okay. So not many for some people would mean one or two, not many for some people five or ten. And you're not sure, okay, how long do your relationships tend to last? How many months are we looking at? It's very inconsistent. So I had this horrible habit where I would make a list, this is before I met you and saw your stuff. So those would be my non-negotiables. I'm with it so far, I mean this is a good thing, but what were they? The way I went about it wasn't the best, I wouldn't call them my non-negotiables, I would say like this is my stuff, it's my way or the highway. And people wouldn't take it well because if you kind of position it that way, they would feel like what do you mean? You want me to just follow what you want, it's not really what I, it's like you either got this stuff or I don't want to change you. So so far this is good, why is this bad? What is on this list? That's what I'm curious about. So it's definitely if you are not religious, I want you to have very strong firm values. If you are religious, then I'm kind of, I kind of know what type of values you're going for. Maybe. Maybe if they're actually into it, the whole thing. Yeah, actually. I can't take anyone who is acting religious that doesn't work for me, either this or that just be honest about it, no problem. So firm character values, I like this so far. Absolutely. Family comes first. Absolutely. Your family or her family? Whatever family, like her family definitely comes first, but it needs to be family. Whether it's our family together or her family, but family needs to always come first, very strong connections, like I can't, it just doesn't make sense to me that you have a brother and you guys don't have a relationship. Okay. You have a sister and you talk badly about her and her absence. Okay. So you want to make sure that you have a woman who is really healthy in her family relationships. Absolutely. Okay. I'm bad. I didn't have the best childhood. So that's something I'm looking for. And not only that, I want to build a family with someone who knows how it feels to have a healthy relationship, healthy family. Okay. So that's always been something I was looking for. I want a big family. So that's a value you have that she must have, but you don't have. Yes. Okay. Okay. Tracking it. Tracking it. What's number three? Loyalty. Beyond belief. Okay. How do you measure loyalty on the first date? I can't. I really can't. It's just like, obviously it's a gut feeling, like depending on how she acts, you kind of like, does she act like this with everyone? Does she act like what with everyone? Is she... How old is your audience, by the way? Are they like, they're not under eighteen or anything? No, no, no, no, no. You're okay. You can share whatever you need to. We can blur your face out if we need to. No, no, I'm good with this. Okay. But how far would they go on like the first date? If they are, let's say, a little bit more conservative, I like that. Okay. Right. Even though... That's honestly most men. Women don't realize that is most men. If you're looking for something serious, you don't want it to go too far on the first date. Yes. So the funny thing is you got like two monkeys in your head. One is like... Yeah. Yeah. What's she's going to do, right? Correct. Yeah. And that's like the thing with... You're kind of happy, but you're not happy, but you know, long term, what's more important. And I don't know, maybe because of where I was born and how I was raised, I want there to be like social boundaries, right? So what does that mean? That means that I'm not a big fan of like my, if she has like a best friend who is a male, that's like a red flag for me. That's a red flag for most men. Yeah. And the same for me. Yeah. Like I'm not going to have like a girl who's my best friend, just doesn't work like that. So these values do, except for that second one, you are also expected to carry these values? Oh, absolutely. 100%. I'm not going to ask anyone from stuff like that without me doing the same thing. And I'm also willing to like compromise on things and change some things to accommodate for her needs as well. It's not going to be just one way. And... So firm values, either from religion or from philosophy, you're looking for a woman who has good family relationships and she's in those things. Excellent. And you're looking for a woman who can embody loyalty, which to you says she has good boundaries with strangers and that she's not going to go all in on that first date with you just because she just met you. You want a woman with firm boundaries so that afterwards she can stay loyal to you and not just be out there with everybody. Yes. Those are the three things I'm hearing. Yes. And the last one, which is the most important that I need someone smart and strong. Smart and strong. Yes. Because I'm going to do difficult things in my life and I need someone there, I can take care of myself. I don't need the support, but it feels good to have the support. And I need someone who's going to push me when I'm like slacking, when things get comfortable. She knows that this is not what I'm looking for and she can help me get there. She's not going to pull me back. So the women you're dating with these five values, these five things that you're looking for. None of these are bad. These are all wonderful things. You're describing my wife actually at home. So these are good things to look for if you're looking for a marriage. What is it that's happening in your relationship? So the women not doing these and you're settling for it? Are they embodying two or three of them and not the others? Are they faking it up front and then they completely fall apart? What is it? Wow, good catch. Yeah. So most of them, they fake it. And then it takes me a while to figure out that this is not who they really are. How long does it take you? Usually without a month and within a month. About 30 days. Yeah. It's very hard to fake so much for so long. It's just so hard. Like whenever I meet someone new, I kind of push, okay, I want to see you with your friends. I want to see you with your family. I want to see you in this situation. We got to go through these situations. Stress testing. I like this. I actually encourage that. Yeah. And then you know, when I started watching your stuff. I was going to say you have been watching my stuff. Yes, this is a lot of what I'm teaching. When I started seeing your stuff, I was also very so in like my parents or any house I lived in. One of the biggest problems was always like it's just like stupid people arguing against each other. Like there's no goal of let's solve this together. We can get mad, but let's sit down and figure it out together. They're cooperation during conflict. Exactly. So how to argue and fix these problems always like from after I understood how important. I knew the problem. Just watch your stuff and you put it in such a good phrasing that it stuck with me. I need to see that. Yeah. So some of the problems I would make would be excessive testing. Okay. So tell me about this because I've seen guys do this very, very wrong. Yes. I would artificially induce a problem. Sorry, you're hiring someone to break into her house at night and then you should rescue her. What are we doing here? I would hire guys to do other stuff. Not interesting. Interesting. Yes. Sometimes I would have such limited time or I want to move on so fast that I would just do stupid stuff sometimes. Nothing illegal. Nothing crazy. Okay. But just, you know, I would make up a fight. I would pick on things that she said that I would translate in the wrong way. What do you mean he has good hair, stuff, weird stuff like that. So when you're going on a vacation, you're not going to talk to me. Our relationship is not important to you. You're going to have a male personal coach. What do you mean? That type of stuff. Isn't this stuff that we make fun of women for doing? Funny. Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting. Okay. I hear you. So you, what you're trying to do, you're not being malicious, what you're trying to do is figure out how to test her appropriately. Let me ask you this. Is life not stressful enough to pass tests there? I don't know, I feel like it's too, I've been so, I've been, I've been through so many relationships that I kind of have a roadmap for how fast the one things to happen. So I, because what happens with me is I get attached to a person, right? I'm usually a very avoidant guy. So when I actually open up, it's bad, like I don't know how to control it. So I don't want, I don't want me, I want to test as fast as possible to make sure that this is a good person or not. So if it's a wrong person, I can end it right there and I got no problem ending really. So what you've just told me is that there is a serious, serious problem in not knowing how to share and you're not fixing that problem. You're introducing a new problem to try to compensate for that problem. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So we'll put a pin in that. I am actually in favor of testing, not fake testing necessarily like that, but definitely introducing circumstances and seeing how they go and then having intense conversations about them. I'm much in favor of that. Have you ever heard the story of the farmer who went out every morning and tugged on the plants that were growing in his field? No. So there's a farmer who was, actually this is a story, actually from Finland, old story. The farmer went out every morning and he was so eager for his crops to grow faster. He decided if I pull on them, the tension will make them grow faster. So he went out and he pulled on every single plant, every single morning and the plants grew, they didn't grow faster, but they grew and they grew up to about this tall, but they're two inches tall and then they all fell over and died because what he had actually done was not pull them and make them grow faster. What he had done was destroy the roots so the roots couldn't grow and it sounds like that's one thing you might be doing in your relationships is ripping them out by the root way too early. Now yes, you may have pulled out a lot of insecure women from the system and it has kept you safe, but it hasn't actually got you closer to your goal. You are no closer than you've ever been. We do need to fix the problem about how do I share with people so that you don't have that concern anymore. We've got to fix that. You've been following my material for a while. Have you figured out your attachment style? Do you know what you tend to do in relationships? Yes. You don't seem anxiously attached to me, but I'm just curious where you're at. Yes, so my last relationship, by the way, thank you Adam very much. What happened was you're a women men course, so I know I'm un-avoided. From the type of work that I do, but what most people don't seem to understand is you have mentioned in multiple times, I just don't know why people don't know it. It's a spectrum. Yes. You don't have to be a really bad person to be an avoidant, you can still be an avoidant and have friends. Yeah, most avoidant men are wonderful, my closest male friends are mostly avoidant guys. Exactly. I don't know why it's just when you label someone avoidant, people think that that's it. Sure. That's what happens. Well, my ex-girlfriend, I was explaining to her, it's been a longer relationship than the usual, let's say, six months, okay, that's longer to me than, and she was complaining to me about like, I don't, I always had a problem with texting, I'm just not the texting type of guy. Sure. Most guys aren't. She wanted me to, for her, I get her point totally, and it was something I was willing to work on. But she would text, and I wouldn't text back in the same amount or same quality. Okay. I was explaining to her, I'm usually a very avoidant guy, and I'm very busy at work. I work, you know, 12, 16 hours, and it's just super busy, and I can't, like, I'm already texting with like a million people at work. It's hard to shift from, from friendship mode, partner mode, into work mode, then back into the relationship mode, because she's just going to get a blast of work mode, really. Exactly. And my working hours were basically when she come back from home, from work, I mean. So it was just brutal. Okay. And I told her, like, I'm an avoidant, I have a very hard time trusting people, I have a very hard time sharing with people, I get pissed off when people ask me, how are you doing? It pisses me off. It just pisses me off. And she would do that, I would, like, kind of ignore her. And I wouldn't also, I don't usually talk about why am I that way. It's just not something that I feel is helpful for people. But anyways, so she bought the course. Okay. And in the course, there's like PDFs that you can download their quizzes, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's like a test for... It's not a test. No, no. It's an exercise to do together. Yes. That's not a test. Well, that's what happened, Anokish. It wasn't done together. Okay. So basically, I think there was, like, maybe 10 questions and I was, like, the only, maybe there was, like, two that made sense from, like, they would apply on me. Okay. And then she was like, oh, you're acting, you're just telling me that you are an avoidant, but you are not an avoidant, then you must not love me. Oh, boy. So, yeah, that happened. But I mean... So my course broke you up. Yeah. It was already done. I mean, I might have even waited for two one to end it, so it is what it is. It had to end. It wasn't the right match. So there was so little trust in the relationship that she felt that you had been lying to her all that time, just manipulating it and faking it so you had a reason not to talk to her, basically. Exactly. She... I think her thought process was, like, it's not, like, in the beginning. It's not going to be. Yeah. It's supposed to change and change. And this is, you know, you call it the honeymoon phase. Yeah. The dopamine cliff at six months, by the way. Exactly. Right where you guys say. Yeah. Good point. And, yeah, that cliff, we didn't survive that cliff. Okay. Didn't survive the cliff. That happens to a lot of couples, unfortunately. Couple of pieces in there. It sounds like you don't connect to other people in a way that you think they're going to either understand or that they're going to care, so it's hard for you to really share with them, like, hey, here's what's going on. He doesn't actually understand, like, you understand the role of context in a relationship. Do you know how you appear to other people? Do you know how you show up to other people in relationships? Do you know how they perceive you? Very cold. I don't know. You tell me. Yeah. That's what I hear. Very cold. What do you call it? Like, unapproachable. Mm. It's very weird. Some say I'm very good at listening. Some say I'm really, I'm really bad at containing. So if you come to me and you have an issue and you feel really bad about something that I did or something that happened to you, then some girls expect that I will, like, are you okay? How do you feel about this? What can I do to help you? Relationship repair. Exactly. So it's different from person to person. But in general, I'm too cold. That's basically what I get. Cold and hard to approach. And then if something goes wrong, you're not going to care about their experience or their pain. You're going to tell them to suck it up and kind of get over it, kind of. Yeah. Okay. Do you tell them to suck it up and get it over it? Some... Interesting. Because that's how I talk to myself. And in recent years, I even figured out that that's not even a good idea to talk to guys. Yeah. I have had multiple friends who got really pissed off at like, "Hey, man, you're f---ing up. You need to pull your s--- together. You failed because you didn't study. You failed because you didn't work. You don't have money because you spent it on this. Pull your s--- together." That's how I talk to myself, but it doesn't work for most people, even guys. Do you talk to people like that after you have built trust or is that how you think you're going to build trust with them by talking to them like that? Both. Interesting. There needs to be a situation that is very important because that's what I want other people to talk to. Like if you can see that I f---ed up because XYZ, I want you to tell me XYZ, you're not okay. You feel good about this? Tell me. Tell me. Interesting. But they take it the wrong way. And I've had multiple friends who like told me, "Hey, man, that's not what you're supposed to do." So one thing you just said right there is when I got, "Please come, tell me I f---ed up." But then it sounds like when the girls come and tell you that you f---ed up, then you go off the rails and say, "We'll screw you too badly." No, no, no. No, it's just that I'm very, I'm always, so that's one good thing about me. I'm very conscious about the things that I do that are wrong. I got no problem saying, "Hey, sorry, you're right. I didn't see it that way. I can work on that, no problem." It's the way I react to their feelings, because sometimes I feel this is unfair, this doesn't really make sense. When they come to you with a problem and say, "Hey, it felt like this happened." Do you look at it objectively and say, "Did that actually happen?" No, it didn't. Therefore, your feelings are wrong. Is that what you tell them kind of thing? Let me think. If it didn't happen, then yeah. Okay. If it did happen, yeah, you're right. I f---ed up. Okay. I got no problem saying that. That didn't happen. Therefore, you're wrong. Stop these feelings immediately. It's the other message, though. Yeah. Okay. And I'm guessing that's not how... We'll get there. Yeah, yeah. We'll get there. I'm just gathering information right now. It's okay. Yeah, yeah. I hate feelings that come. I hate feelings. That's actually good for... Why? Um, they make me... So they make me feel uncomfortable. Like, if there is like an ex crying in front of me, "I'm the most uncomfortable guy in the world." No. I can't take crying. Why? Just can't. Why? I don't know. I think it's like a feelings thing. I have been locked off feelings for such a long time that when I see like a visual expression of feelings or something to that extent, it makes me feel very uncomfortable. So discomfort is usually an anticipation of pain. I am anticipating some sort of pain, and in that circumstance, sometimes it's anticipation of social pain, your physical pain, emotional pain, and social pain, three different parts of your brain. You can actually feel social pain in your brain. There's a specific area for feeling that. So if someone's crying in front of you, sometimes what you're anticipating is social pain through failure, social pain through being outcast, social pain simply from failing to care for somebody that you care about, loss of compassion, not knowing what to do. Is that resonating? Is that something maybe that you're feeling? Like I don't know how to handle this or what to do. Are you afraid that they're going to think you're a bad person? Do you feel like a bad person in that moment? What is it? Maybe all three. Maybe all three. Okay. Yeah. Once again, not knowing what to do, not knowing how to share, not knowing how to respond. When somebody has a feeling, do you feel like it's compelling you to act and do something? Like they are putting a gun to your head, making you do something in service of their feelings. Is that what feelings represent to you? Like they're seizing control and making a demand? Yeah. Sometimes depending on the, like, you know, some women actually, so I'm a very suspicious person to start with. Okay. Right. So depending on my gut feeling and how well I know the woman, some people do that to get the reaction out of you or to force you to change your behavior. I'm very conscious of that. So if I feel like you're over exaggerating something that happened to get me to change my behavior and spend, I don't know, a day off work with you permanently. That's not going to happen. So you think they're artificially testing you, which is why you in turn artificially test them later on? No, I test first. You test first. Yes. I'm always like, I move so fast. So you think that's normal in relationships back and forth? I don't, I don't know, I don't, I don't think it's a natural. I don't know. I haven't really heard about people testing to that extent or this fast at least. Okay. Gotcha. Um, in these relationships that you're in like this, when they come to you with feelings, is that usually what ends the relationship? They come to you and said, Hey, I feel like you did this thing and that really hurt and you say, No, I didn't. And then you guys fight. Then you break up. Yeah. Okay. Who initiates the breakup usually? Me. You initiate it. What's, what's your go-to phrase for ending the relationship? Oh, very respectful. Well, what is it? You know what? I don't think this is going to work for us. You have a lot of feelings that I'm kind of have a very hard time interpreting. I don't see this continuing in any shape or form. This is not productive. You're a great person. This is probably my fault. I hope you have a very good life in the world. That's like the best hits of the avoidant man right there. Like all of them together. Yeah. Do you have them on like a flyer that you can just hand to her? It's ready. I got a cord by the way. It's amazing. That's amazing. Okay. I'm going to put that on my website. Just buy a 20 pack. Okay. No, I hear you. And my sense is that you're probably being very honest and legitimate. You mean those things. It's not like I'm going to get the hell out of here and I'm just going to throw this crap at her so that she leaves. You really mean that. Okay. That's more that ethical avoidant, right? You're actually saying what you truly honestly feel. It sounds like there's a lot of gaps in your understanding of how to relate to people in a way that I've seen this a lot with avoidant guys in a way that you won't then get overwhelmed by people. It sounds like you have one big iron wall and you have snipers posted on top of that wall and one gate that never opens and once they're in, then you're just gone. You're just like standing there in your boxer shorts. There's no fortress. There's no keep. There's no layers of boundaries. You're just there and you're waiting for someone to bust through that door with a bazooka and shoot you and kill you is what it sounds like to me. We need to build additional layers so that there's multiple layers they get through with testing that's actual authentic testing. We need boundaries, honestly, that keep people out. Do you have a hard time figuring out who not to trust? No, I only have a hard time figuring out who to trust. Okay. Is it possible that that's actually the same because a lot of avoidant guys, they feel like most people are not to be trusted, but they have a hard time measuring exactly which ones are going to screw up or fail them in the worst ways and so they don't have an actual measurable system for keeping people out so then there's no escalation for who to actually trust. Oh no, I just assume I can't trust anyone. There you go. Right. There you go. Yeah. So you've been watching my stuff. Have you seen my four levels of trust? Yeah. Yeah. I did. Okay. So I have already lied to you. It's actually five levels of trust. But yes, you're keeping level zero, right? Yeah. You're keeping everybody at level zero because you don't know how to escalate up. So this is a very good point. I have had this conversation multiple times before. I don't do level zero. I do level minus negative, negative 100. Okay. So normal people start at zero. I start at negative 100. I do not trust you from the get go so you cannot. There is no way you're going to make me feel bad about you doing something bad. It's a protection barrier. I understand. I understand. What does somebody have to do if they start at negative 100? How does somebody get to zero? Okay. How can you prove the absence of? You just do respectful stuff like, you know, show me a loyalty. I'm going to show you loyalty. But don't because of the nature of the work I do, even before I did this work, there's a lot of people who want something from you, right? I don't like that. You know, I can be genuine. You can be genuine. And the relationship will organically develop and we can help each other, you know, whatever. You can ask me directly. I don't like when people go around something and, you know, if I need help from Adam, Adam, I need help. I don't have the money to do it. Can I get on your podcasts? That's sure. Yeah. Just directly. I'm not going to go around it and be direct with me. And a lot of people did that in my life, whether it's personal or at work. So that made me like, okay, yeah, you're at negative 100. Show me when people start calling you, hi, friends, friends, when do you ever use that word? Even with your friends. So that's the type of things that happen with me that make me feel like, remind me never to say like, call you a friend or anything. No, no, no. But, you know, when you have developed that relationship already with someone and they already look very genuine in your eyes, it's no problem. Okay. Like, I know you, I know you're very genuine. I know what type of guy you are, but with other people, there's, I know what they're trying to do. Okay. So, what you just said there was actually really good, it takes time to cultivate and develop that. How does somebody know that they have gone from negative 100 to only negative 50 in your eyes? They get an email confirmation. Get an email confirmation that dings and locks in. No, I think I would, like how would somebody, how would, how do you think I would know? And in our, our back and forth that we've had for the last few years, how would, how do you think that I would know that I had earned your trust? What would be different in you that I would perceive? I'm assuming I've made it to you. Yes. Beyond zero. Whoa. Whoa. Okay. This is pressure now. No, no. So, I think it's just that way, like I would, now I can do stuff with like for you. I can help you even beyond like work or just a normal relationship. Like I would go out of my way to help you. If there's something I'm going to call you, take care of you, ask you how you're doing, that type of stuff. But there are very few people in my life that are this way. I would say there is probably no more than five. How would I know that you were doing that because you trusted me versus knowing the thinking that you were doing that just to try to get on my good side? I guess it's a feeling thing. Like if I do something just to do it and you don't see any value that I get out of this, maybe I'm going to actually feel bad about like you telling me your problem. That to me feels like sacrifice, sacrifice, whether it's time, energy. What if I don't have that context? What if I'm also paranoid on my side and you're doing those things for me saying, hey, I really care about you. Here's acts of service is what you're talking about. And that's your love language if you want to use it that way, my friend. But if we want to look at it that way, what if on my side I'm just as paranoid and I say well, he's only doing those things as he's trying to get in. He wants me to hire him. He wants me to hook him up with my rich celebrity buddies. He wants me. He wants to do these things. So he's only being kind to me because X, Y, and Z. But on your side, you're saying, well, I really like and respect this guy. This guy is my friend. What if that difference is there? How would you bridge that gap? What in your relationships as they exist bridges that gap and builds mutual understanding between the two parties? What do you do? If you've ever done anything about that, I don't know that I can know the difference. I'm not sure. Maybe with men, I'm way better at it, but with women, it seems very difficult to me. Men, we do tend to look at that and say, okay, he's doing X, Y, and Z for me. Women are also very, way better at masking feelings. They're so good at, you know, I've seen things, even my relationship, they were like, wow, really? Wow. Okay. But with men, it's just way more obvious, I guess, for me at least. It can be. Yeah. Depending on if, if that's why I annoyed. That's why I do way more testing with women in relationships than I do in any other guy. I stood. What I'm circling around here and fishing on is if, if you are not providing context to people, if you're not helping them understand a little bit about where you're at and understanding why you're doing things and even understanding how you're feeling, if you're not using that context, then they will create their own context and their own context will come through sometimes good filters, sometimes terrible filters. Sometimes it'll come through. I've never had someone ever be kind to me ever and this person's being kind to me. They must be wildly in love with me and they're my best friend and now we should get married and buy a house together or they'll say, I've only ever had people do nice things for me when they are trying to do terrible things to me at my back. So what awful things is this guy doing to me? And you on the other side are saying, well, I really care for this guy. I trust him. I'm going to be kind to him without that context or has to be shared understanding. Otherwise, our brains won't link up. They won't make sense of each other. Does that make sense? Yeah. The same thing is true with these women that you're connecting with. This is the awkward part for most, for most avoidant guys. And this is why I say feelings, it's feelings are sensory data, feelings inform you of what's going on, but then you have to reality test against those feelings. Do these feelings actually mean what I think they mean? Are these feelings useful? They're telling me that I respect you. Okay. Now I can test that. I think the rec conversation is usually some of the best way to really test that. Sometimes it's going to your buddy and you're having a couple of drinks at the bar. You say, you know what, I just want to say I've really respected you over the last couple of years from what you've done and I'm going to put my trust in you going forward. You just been like fist bump, right? That right there is a moment of context and it's too awkward for a lot of guys to say. So you've got to be like 19 drinks in and falling on the floor, but that moment is crucial, articulating that to a person so that they can go, oh, you're not trying to stab me in the back. That's kind of weird. Like a person, a person who's trying to stab me in the back won't actually call attention to the nice things they're doing and let me know that it's because they respect me. A person who's trying to do that will say, well, did you notice what I did? Did you notice how much I like you? Did you notice, blah, blah, blah? They won't give that clear context without adding that extra layer of so that's why I'm doing all these nice things for you. It's just I'm going to trust you going forward because I respect you. Does that make sense? It does. Does that make you want to throw up going to somebody and saying, hey, you know what, I really respect you and I'm going to put my trust in you. It's not the most natural thing for me, but I would definitely do it. No problem. Good. It is. It doesn't feel like a natural thing, but it actually is a natural thing for you. It's just that you're in an unnatural, that's not the right way, you are in a temporary state for survival that's supposed to be temporary, which is the avoidant piece. By all means it is not an astrology sign. I wish your ex girlfriend had not said, oh, he's a Virgo. So I can never, because I'm whatever the other thing is, I could never be together with you. I hate those. I wish she hadn't done that. That's why I refuse to talk about attachment styles at all for the first couple of years of being the attachment specialist, but it's just that you're currently coming from a position of avoidance because of your learned patterns, that's all. These are natural behaviors. You just, you haven't used them before. When I was a young boy, I had a duck and I raised this duck in the house for the first three, four months and it just walked around in the house. It drank water from a little cup and then it came time to take the duck into the yard where we had a pond and we took the duck into the backyard in the pond and we put on the edge of the pond thinking surely it will jump in and begin swimming and it was so terrified that we started nudging it toward the water. It thought we were trying to kill it. It thought it was going to die. So we had to take the duck and push him into the water. We forced him in and he freaked out and he swam as fast as he could to the, to the edge jumped out and stood there and then I saw his brain. He went, click, wait a minute. And he looked back at the pond and he stared at it for like five seconds and then he walked forward, jumped in and swam immediately. And then I could never get him out of the pond again because he was so happy in it. And that's, that's ultimately what this is here right with you. You are a duck who's been raised away from the pond. The pond is human relationships that are based on actual trust and I don't mean every human, by the way, maybe 10 to 15% of humans are worthy of your trust in this world. So, so 85%, buddy, I got you, right? Do not trust them, but that 15% is what you're missing, that 15% of women are the ones that you're aiming for specifically for you, that you're looking for for that relationship and that long-term marriage. Now, yes, you have a system that keeps out that 85%, but you have a system that absolutely obliterates any chance with those 15%. I don't know how many of those women you've dated, the five to 10 women in the last five years or the last eight years have been five to 10, that 15%. I don't know. They were all good women. They were just not the right women for me. That's totally fine. Maybe the next one will be similar to them, and she'll be the right woman for the man that you're going to become. Oh, oh, I said, well, I said, well, thank you. Are you happy living more like an isolated life and happy? Let me say that again, because happiness for men, we don't track it that way, right? Are you fulfilled and content living the life that you're living right now with those extra armored boundaries that are keeping you out, or are you surviving? So that's my issue. The tools that I'm using right now are very useful for work. Absolutely. They just suck for personal relationships. I feel bad for anyone who is in my situation, because it's like being an avoidant is just like a horrible blockade for anyone. Where is the gate? There should be like a chicken chicken. There is no gate. People have no idea how to get it. I even don't know how to get them in. It's a horrible situation. So can I have to build a gate? It's actually pretty simple, yes you can. So how do I trust people? I don't know. Okay. So have you ever flown on an airplane before? Yes. Right. There's multiple layers that you go through first, right? First you have to pick the line you're going to go in, and then they look at you and say, are you really on the right line? You say, yes, I am. Okay, well, show me your ticket. Okay, yes, I actually have sky priority or whatever. Okay, yeah, you're in this line. So you go through the line. Then you go through the TSA check here in America, the TSA. All right. Show me your ID. Okay, here's my ID. Okay. Is that really you on there? Yes, it's really me. Okay. Lock in this line. Take your shoes off. You're going to go and you're going to run your materials through this machine. And then you're going to get in this line and we're going to body scan you, then we're going to look at you really suspiciously just to see if you're sweating while you're going through all this. And you go through multiple layers of security so that when you get out the other side, they've scanned you as thoroughly as they know how, and now they've created as safe of a perimeter on the inside as possible. But they're still watching. They're still examining. They're still doing things before you get on your airplane. You have one final check before you get in there just to verify it's who you're supposed to be. But it's a friendlier check, right? It's not a body cavity search at that point. It's scan your passport, smile, see how are you going? Let's help you. And then you have the relationship on the inside of the airplane. So let's assume that you are now an airport. Okay. The woman that you want to be with is the only woman allowed on your one woman airplane. Okay. That's it. There's one woman who's supposed to make it to the airplane. You need to create multiple layers through instead of one iron block she can't get into and the airplane is going to rot on the tarmac. Make sense? Yeah. So you've seen my four levels of trust, principles, right, is absolute number one. That's what you're looking for. And you said that beautifully and you're listed five things. You need her core principles, whether it's religion or how she practices, whatever it is, you need to see her go through stress. That doesn't mean that you are the person who should stress her because what that tells her is that you don't have her shared values. If you are going in and saying, what do you mean you're going to do that? What do you mean you're going to go see your family for a week and not talk to me? What do you mean that you have this guy that you're a male coach? That's stupid. You're going to do that. What do you mean that you're doing this thing? What you're announcing to her is that you don't have those shared values and you're going to make it hard for her to live her life, even if she has those values. You're testing her. Yeah, that's cool. But maybe there's better ways to test if her family really comes first. Make sense? Yeah. The message you're sending is you're some jerk who's going to rip her away from her family and give her a bad life. So the question is should I even tell her that that's what I'm looking for because if I tell her she might be artificially making it sounds that she cares about her family. I understand. Should I just see what she comes up with? Do you want a relationship for the next 50 years where you're raising children together, grandchildren, building a home, she has control, access to finances? Do you want a relationship with that woman where you have to constantly keep everything inside and manipulate things, not maliciously manipulate, but manipulate the environment to test her? Or do you want a woman that you can say things directly to her and then she will show you the truth? I wanted both ways as well. I can say things directly to her and she can't come to me as well. There you go. Beautiful. So my approach that I recommend is saying it straight up front and letting them know you're going to be watching and letting them know that if there's anything that goes backwards, you're going to have to have a conversation about it and telling her that if this is not real for her, she needs to let you know immediately because it will go very badly in the future and that she needs to be only with you if she was legitimate about her family. That level of warning. Look, you get one shot at this and your family needs to be your absolute priority. Please don't waste either one of our time if your family's not your main priority because it will go very badly. A woman who is not legitimate is going to hear that and go, "Maybe this isn't for me." She's going to start pulling away. She's going to have less time for you. She's going to talk with you a little bit less. There's no woman on the planet, even with personality disorders, who's going to say, "I can pass that test forever for 50 years." They go, "Oh, that's not me. I don't like that at all." But the women, those 15%, especially you're aiming for, those women who do that say, "Look how serious this guy is about family. Look how honest and direct he is about it, but look how hard he's going about this. I love this. This is a man who shares my passion for this. Does that make sense? You have to scare away the majority of women with that upfront honesty by being that clear and direct writer from the bat. If you do that, you prove to her that you are that man, and you call that out of her as well. Maybe I was doing it all right from the beginning, then. You might have been. It's just that I think your testing has been more secretive and more quiet. You're not giving them the context, so they don't know what to do. I was very, very clear about these things. I developed over time. I knew more and more what I actually wanted. And I always said at the beginning, "It was always like you're too direct. You're too direct. I don't have time to waste. I've been always looking for this. Why is it so difficult?" And I don't think, maybe I took it a little bit further, and with other things, I would go like, "You're going to do it this way." I think I wasn't open to having conversations. So when, for example, the family part is really the easy part, because it's so easy to see these things. It's pretty simple. Yeah. But when it comes to arguments, so let's say that I'm in a relationship with someone, and we agree that we're not going to go something I learned from an attachment specialist. It's a really bad idea to sleep on something. It's really bad, and you guys let it go and say, "We're going to talk about it another time." Yeah. And you have the conversation. Yeah. Cool. We're not going to reach anything productive right now, but let's just... I love you. I don't want you to hurt. We're going to continue this conversation tomorrow when we're a little bit cooler. That's okay. Tomorrow, yeah, yeah. So like a mutual agreement on, if you slip, I'm going to be there to pull you back in. If I slip, you need to be there to pull me back in. Correct. Sometimes I'm not going to have the energy. Sometimes you're not going to have the energy. We need to both work on making this relationship. I'm not going to be happy with a normal relationship. It doesn't make sense to me. It just needs something really, really, really strong. I'm curious what you think a normal relationship is, because everything you're describing so far is a normal relationship. It's just that you're not building them. A normal relationship for me is people who break up at the slightest thing. They argue all the time over dumb shit. That's my childhood. That's what I'm used to arguing with. The new normal. The modern relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's not normal. That's sick and disgusting. I understand completely. Yeah. I don't think I've seen healthy relationships till I was like maybe two years ago. You just run a camp where I have like avoidant men coming to live in my home with me and my wife and just watch us be married for like a week. People always amazed me to hear about like how you guys handle your stuff. Just the story like when you were telling me about like how you guys get married and found each other and how direct you were and like, is this magic? It sounds like a story. I was as direct as you're being and everything that was on your list was on my list with my wife. The difference I think is that one problem that might be happening is when I would talk to my wife back then and start talking about problems that I saw or asking her questions, I always poked and prodded at every red flag I saw every time. But sometimes for avoidant men, they say women will say you seem cold and unapproachable. The problem is that sometimes your bonding hormones are so low, your oxytocin bonding is so low. You don't have that hardly in your system. Your GABA is very low. You have high cortisol, very low serotonin, then dopamine binging. All that does is it creates a brain that's a lot like a chainsaw where you're going to go into the relationship and you're going to say we have a problem and then rev a chainsaw three times while looking at her menacingly. It's a little bit different than if you walk into a relationship conversation with a woman and say, hey, there's a challenge happening right now. I want to navigate it with you. We're going to have to be clear and direct and honest with each other, but let's have this conversation and come out the other side stronger. Make sense? Yeah. Phrasing it that way shows that you actually are invested in the relationship. What I've seen time and time again, maybe this is you. I haven't been there before. I don't have a camera on you at home. But maybe you walk into the relationship and you're like, okay, there's something happening that I don't like. And if this continues, then I am going to throw you outside to the wolves and they will eat you and I will feel nothing for you. So here's what we're going to do and here's how you're going to answer me by saying yes, sir, it's the next three questions. Sounds familiar. Yeah, so what you're actually signaling to her, the problem you're signaling is I don't care about you. This relationship means nothing to me. I've turned everything off and in fact, I didn't even have to turn it off because it wasn't even turned on. I'm revealing to you at this moment for the first time ever, providing you context for the first time ever, the only context I've provided for the last 30 days really on the inside. You're seeing a glimpse inside. I feel nothing for you and I never will and you are now going to cater to what I want. And that might be the message you're sending to these women. So then, yes, their feelings get hurt. They experience in their brain that social pain and the emotional pain, they have a higher sensitivity to it. Yours is temporarily disabled a little bit, not off, but disabled so that you could just muscle through and survive the avoidant piece. So they have what's called a protest behavior. I am protesting the pain that you are now inflicting on me by telling me that I am meaningless and worthless to you. Just stop and tell me that I mean something to you. And your brain says, "How dare you make demands of me right now? I'm not going to cater to you. I'm not your mom. Why would I stop the consequences of your own actions to powder your butt and tell you that you are pretty?" Why would I do this? What she's actually saying is for me to have this conversation with you, we'll talk about safety in a hearing moment, for me to have this conversation with you, I need to feel safe with you and to feel safe with you, I need to feel like you actually care at all about this relationship. Safety for women is just predictability. Are you going to be fair with me? Are you going to give me a chance to repair things? I heard them before so I think it was said in what consistency, I think I heard that. Consistent character. What you're modeling for her is inconsistent character and that she has absolutely no long-term stability with you because at the drop of a hat, everything can eradicate the relationship in three seconds and that's not going to work with any good woman on the planet. The only ones you're going to get are the ones who are absolutely desperate for anything they can get or the ones who think they can overwhelm you and seize control. One of the issues I've heard from women about me is at the drop of a hat, everything can just poof because you're so, you can just turn it off and disappear. Let me ask you though, is that actually true and I don't mean can you turn it off, I mean at the drop of a hat can everything simply poof on evaporate in three seconds and you won't even offer a chance to repair. Is that standard for you? Yeah. Okay. So if there is like a red flag that I'm not going to compromise on a real issue in front of me and like if there is like a let's say a loyalty issue, there is no coming back from that. There is never going to be coming back from that. If you like, if you sleep with someone else or- Oh, so that's a big one. No, no, no. So that's a big one. Let's say you and I've been friends for a few years. Let's say I forget your birthday. Honestly, I don't even know when your birthday is. Yeah. I barely remember my own birthday. I don't even know. I have five kids. My wife writes their birthdays down for me. Like she notifies me. If she ever dies. I'm going to say, sorry kids. I don't know when your birthday is. You don't have one. But let's say I did something like this, something small. What would happen between us? No, that's nothing. But there are things in friendship where I'm not going to even try again, like I've had friends that are just, you know, kind of erased them from my notebook. Now see the instant, the moment you said that, I'm now curious, like, where are those lines? What if I accidentally cross one that I don't know what it is? What if I have no idea and I accidentally hit one? What if yours are not the reason, once I would think are reasonable, like I have to steal money from you, harvest your kidney, sleep with your girlfriend? What if it's like, it's not those? What if it's like, I forget your birthday? What if it's, I do some weird line. I don't know where it is. I don't, I now know, don't know where your boundaries are. And that's the problem with even women. They are so, they, well, let me, let me exactly say what. Sure. Please go ahead. She says, I want to be walking on actuals around you because I don't know what's going to trigger you. Yeah. So it's a, it is an issue. Yeah. Now with me, I actually, as I'm talking to you, I'm like, oh, shoot, what, what am I going to do? What, what could I do? What would, what would, here's, here's the, here's the key piece. The average person who's not avoiding so roughly 60% of people, right? No, no, no, no. That's minus 15% off of that for personality disorders. So, so roughly, what is that? That's, that's 55%. So okay. 45% of remaining people who are securely attached and anxiously attached. Okay. The 45% of other people. They are bonded to you enough with bonding hormones that they say, ooh, if I separate from you, I will actually experience pain and I don't want to turn that piece off because it will really hurt and that will be in an actual loss and I will grieve that loss. So I'm not going to collapse into it and compromise on values, but I am going to have a conversation with you and see if what you just did was by accident and then see if we can modify your behavior. So they'll say, hey, you know, you'll get close to a line. So I'll actually notify you early on in the relationships, hey, here's my lines, please don't cross these. Tell me your lines. Let me know what your lines are. So after this podcast, I'm going to actually ask you, hey, as your friend, what are my lines? So I make sure I never crossed them ever because I don't want to. If I do, it's because I'm stupid. So where are your lines? Where are my lines? Okay. Let's do this. Here's the pathway through the line, the minefield. Okay. Never walking on eggshells again. And then there's a reassurance of, hey, buddy, if, if I accidentally do something, would you give me a heads up and make and give me a chance to make it right? Because I swear to you, I will. And I will. And you could say, I will choose, but never. If you do do one of these things, yes, I can do that. If you do one of these things, I absolutely cannot. Totally understood. Hey, totally understood. If I do cross one, please assume I'm stupid. Come have that conversation with me. If I do it twice, that's a serious problem and I will not blame you for separating at that point. Right. Cool. Okay. Because I do have not a free pass, but I have an opportunity, so I don't have to be terrified that one bad thing will happen without me meaning to and I'm going to wake up to a screaming fight or an absolute break and then to painful grief. That's that walking on eggshells component. That's when women say I want to feel safe. Where are your boundaries? Where are my boundaries? If I cross yours accidentally, is it okay or will you abandon me? Please don't abandon me. That's what they're looking for. So again, context, right? How clear are you with women about not just the like absolute like black death flags, but then like the red flags, the yellow flags? How much do they know where the minds are or do they do you keep that a secret to see if they're going to cross them without knowing? I feel in a relationship, it's sometimes so vague that even I don't know what's going to trigger me. And it's very common, especially with like stuff that has to do with jealousy. That's probably the one that's very unpredictable for me. You getting jealous or them getting jealous? No, it's me getting jealous. So like about like the weirdest stuff that like I would I would literally say, I know this is weird, but this is triggering me and it would like it would be like this stupidest stuff. And I don't know where it stems from because it's not that I'm not confident in myself. I'm very confident. It's not that, you know, is it because you don't trust them to act appropriately outside of your vision? No, it's no, it's not even that like I would be I would be with women that are very like conservative, very, there's just no guys too well. Maybe that's it. You know, I don't know. So you don't trust other men. Do you think the other man is going to grab her and force her to do things? Or do you think the other man is going to manipulate her out of the relationship and get her to do something foolish? Do you think she's playing a role in it as the guy's doing it? So it would be that she doesn't know what's happening. Guys are guys, you know, they can, oh my God, guys can be around the girl for years completely on it. Women don't get it. Most of the time. Men get it. Men, men instinctively grasp it. Yeah, they just don't like even even thinking about it as like if one day I'm blessed and I get a kid and you know, I get some girls, I'm going to be horrible because I know what guys are after. Oh yeah. I have three daughters and a wife and a sister and a niece. I completely understand. Yeah. And then there are women who are just, they are very social and they like to have, they don't really care if it's a guy or a gal. Yeah. So then it doesn't make much of a difference. Yeah. And it's also a problem. So if she says to a guy, like, I can't talk with you anymore and he's like, what do you mean? Do you think I have feelings for you or something? And there's sometimes there would be absolutely nothing and she would look bad. You see what's going on? It's just an endless loop of it doesn't make any sense. But how do I make, because it's not fair to her. She's not doing anything wrong. She is very like conservative, like, everything is just like, right. Do you know how my wife and I've solved that problem? Please tell me. Please. So I am not allowed to have any female friends that she is not also mutual friends with. So they are friends with us as a couple. And she's not allowed to have any male friends that I'm not friends with. They have to be friends with us as a couple. I like that. In our local environment, there's a really great guy, my buddy Tom, Tom. He actually started talking to my wife first on social media back in the day when she was on social media. And he was a hardcore, like prepping dude, like all kinds of good stuff, farming, like really cool stuff. And that's one of my wife's deep passions for her to get in and talk to someone about homesteading. It's going to be mostly men. Yeah. It has to be. But she immediately looped him in and immediately said, come over the house, meet my husband. You guys will hit it off. You guys love science fiction. You love this. You love this. So he and I have talked and we've hit it off. And every time they talk, she makes sure she points him back at me and sets up a next Tom for us to talk. So I called him on the way flying into the studio. I called him from my car and said, Hey, Tom, I haven't heard from you in a while. How are you doing? Like wonderful guy, great character. So I can really gauge like this guy has zero interest in my wife because he's got great character, great boundaries on a Tom's probably blushing at home. But he's a fantastic guy. You're doing well, Tom. But yeah, but that's how I built it. So I knew I could trust him. And she's able to talk to him because I have vetted it that way. And he is very respectful of me, incredible boundaries. He brings his kids over. Our kids play together. It's fantastic, right? Very, very specific circumstance. She's not friends with every dude out there and I just happen to have to be friends with him. It's very selective. Okay. Same thing. Any women that come into my life, they have to meet my wife. They have to talk to her. They have to have him enormously selective of this. Okay. They got to come. They got to talk to my wife. They have to have a relationship with her, not just to get to me. Does this make sense? Yeah. This is a great filtering criteria for men and women because women have the same jealousy. They'll say, oh, I don't trust women. There's almost no women on the planet that trust another woman alone with her guy. Same thing that you and I do with men, to be honest with you. Ladies at home, you can argue with me in the comments. That's totally fine. But that's a system. To get there though, you have to have a conversation with her and be able to collaborate with her. Part of your problem, it sounds like you can't collaborate with these women at all. You're doing it all alone in your head. You're managing her. Yeah. Like a resource. Yeah. I sat down multiple times and I had to like boil down all of my issues down to two things. They were like trust and overthinking. Yeah. Which works really well in business again. But in relationships, catastrophic, just catastrophic. There was about 20 years ago, in the Nintendo 64, there was a video game called Battle Tanks. And the idea was that the world had ended and you had two objectives. One was to drive your tank around and blow up men in other tanks. And number two was to collect little icons of females so that your group could breed and survive. Oh. And they were just a little icon. It wasn't even like a human woman. It was a picture of a woman's face. And I will never forget that because that is the way that avoidant men view the world. I have to drive around in my armored tank and never let anyone in, blow up other men in their tanks who are trying to kill me, and then collect one female or couple for breeding purposes and then keep her and keep her safe. Because if I get blown up, they'll take her or if they come in, they'll take her. So I have to navigate around with this female in my tank and not let anyone attack us and hope she doesn't knife me in my tank while we're in there by the way. And that's kind of how you live in your life, my friend, my friend. So under what circumstances could you collaborate with a woman? How would you trust her enough to start having a collaborative relationship with her? Well, you say, look, I've been in a number of relationships. I want to get married. Okay. For me to get married to you, I have to see these things, but I also have to actually believe these things are real. And I've been around too many people who can fake this. In the past, I have tested people artificially and I'm not going to do that with you. I expect you to not do the same with me. We need to actually go through real hard conversations. Now, what I will guarantee to you is that if we have real hard conversations, I'm not going to instantly turn everything off and check out on you because I've also done that in the past. Avoidant tendencies. I'm fixing those. I am going to be invested with you. I'm going to give opportunities to fix problems. I will. I will guarantee you that I will not allow myself to turn that off. Okay. So you do not have to walk on eggshells. Please always be honest with me. Here are my exact boundaries. Here's what would be the end of the relationship. Here's concerns. Here's this and this. What are your boundaries and how can we make this work? Again, you're going to scare off 85% of women. Good. Good. Right? Yeah. That 15% that comes in, they now know the price of entry. Now you have those conversations and you begin the conversations by saying, I told you, I will give you an opportunity to fix things. So I'm going to talk to you today and my goal, you front load the conversations called, it's called front loading context. My goal in this conversation today is to navigate through with you and maintain our relationship. You don't say, I don't care either way, we're going to come out the other side who cares how it goes. It's just going to be, no, my goal today is to maintain a relationship with you because you are a good woman. For us to get there, here's what's going to need to happen. Not you're going to cater to me. It's we need to have this conversation and I need to hear from you because when the problem hits, you buckle down and do this and you say, you will do X, Y and Z and she has to comply under threat. That's not testing her character at all, right? That tells you how she acts under threat. Yeah. Okay. Tell me what's going on with you. I want to hear from your side first and then I'm going to respond to that over here and then she does. Again, if you do this over and over and over and over, you're actually building emotional intimacy. Women like this. You're building consistent character, making her feel safe, that safe word that women love. You're making her feel safe and you're making sure she never has to walk on eggshells. She has to be attentive. She has to be respectful, but not walk on eggshells. Her path is very clearly laid out. Makes sense. Yeah. And now she's safe and she can love you in return. This is going to lower your cortisol level so that you can actually start oxytocin bonding properly with her. You're going to vasopressin bond with her. You're going to start getting serotonin. Men always ask, what do women bring to the table? They bring the intimacy and the bonding and the nurturing that allows you to feel calm and satisfied at home so you can rest at night. Your sleep will improve. I don't know if you have a sleep problem, but you'll fall asleep better, you'll stay asleep longer and sleep deeper and wake up feeling more refreshed with a good woman in your life. On your days off, you'll be able to just truly rest and then you'll be five times more productive when you come back because you've actually rested. You're not burned out 24/7. So the 16-hour days that you're running, they won't kill you. It will actually you'll feel refreshed enough to be able to do that work better and smarter than you were before. But she can only do that if she feels that level of safety and predictability first, which you're going to have to collaborate with her on. Otherwise she's just in your battle tank as a little icon being used for breathing purposes. Make sense? Some women like breathing purposes, but they need the emotional intimacy. They need the trust. They need to predictability. They need to be able to assist you. How can that woman assist you in anything in your life? Why do you even have a woman? How long do you think I should wait until I propose? If I, let's say I did the thing, yep, to learn about my list, there's not going to be any artificial testing. We're going to have our conversation. These are my non-negotiables. What are yours? If this is not true, it's not going to work so you might as well tell me now all of this is done. Okay, how long should we be together before I take any further steps? Some six months of just dating, so this is premarital vetting. This is pre-engagement vetting. Six months because your novelty dopamine dies at five to seven months, usually usually like five months. Your novelty dopamine is gone. What has to happen is you have to have low enough cortisol and stress that she is nurturing and caring for you and then you're starting to develop your oxytocin bonding that goes up. At five, six, seven months, you should actually have increasing returns in the relationship or you're feeling peaceful and at rest. You feel peaceful in her presence, right? That's what you want from a woman is peace. You actually feel that peace in her presence and you know she's not going to blindside you with some stupid crap about would you still love me if I was an earthworm, right? She's going to be like, "Hey babe, I know you had a hard day. I'm going to grab dinner. I'm going to cook dinner for you. I'm going to take care of you. Don't worry about this, this and this. Here's what this is going. Hey, you know what? Let me tell you about my day. I did have some challenges, but here's what I'm going to do about. Thanks for listening. You're so great. Thank hug. Here's your dinner. She takes care of you. You take care of her, right? She's not there to serve you, but I mean you're caring for each other. Very important. At six to seven months, that should be increasing and you should be feeling like there's a great return on your investment of giving her that time. You give her that time in patience and that care and then she pays you back tenfold. Does that make sense? It does. You're giving her everything she needs, but she's giving you everything you need as well. At six months, you can say you have a conversation, you say this is going very well. I like how this is going. I'm feeling this and this and this. Your feelings are necessary here because that's your sensory data. I'm feeling this and this and this. What are you seeing from your side? She talks boom, boom, boom. I would like to make sure nobody else marries you and scoops you out from under me. So here's a ring. I want you to marry me. Excellent. Now the real testing starts to begin. Oh my God. Now the real testing begins. You give her the ring and it's not fake. Where are we going to live? Who are we going to talk to? Who are we going to live by? What religion are we going to raise our kids in and how are we going to do that? What are these structures? You have those hard conversations and you see does she fight you? Now that she's got a little control, does she start fighting you and being a jerk and controlling and whining and sniveling? How much of a bridezilla is she as she heads toward the wedding? Bridezilla. Oh my God. How much does she? What is she doing? She want $50,000 for her wedding or is she saying, you know what, let's have a good modest wedding and put that into a savings or an investment for us so that we can be stronger as a couple. Let's put that as a down payment on a house. Right? When I got married to my wife, she was like, do not buy me diamond ring. I do not want that. I want like a $200 gold band that I can wear that's going to be useful for when I'm washing dishes or like doing digging in the garden that's not going to get ruined. And then let's put the money we would have put toward that wedding. Let's have a decent wedding. And let's actually put it toward our future as a couple. Very sensible. Yeah, very sensible woman. Right? Yeah, yeah. Definitely bad. So based on culture, cultural things will be different. But the women who are like, my wedding must make me feel like a princess. Absolutely not. Yeah. That's not something I'm interested in. So you test and you see how it's going to go and you maintain openness. Hey babe, you know, this has been going on lately. Talk to me about what you're feeling. Talk to me about what's happening here. That's the way to approach red flags with her. I'm observing X, talk to me about this. And then how she presents it to you tells you everything you need to know. Give her the chance first. Make sense? Yeah. I'm observing X. Therefore here is my sword. I will thrust this through your chest. If you don't give me the answer in three seconds, not good. I've observed this. Tell me about this, right? That next six months is intense testing. Get married in a year or 18 months if you're not comfortable in a year. If you don't know by 12 months, if you don't know by a year, you are not testing thoroughly enough. You haven't done enough with her and I mean, real testing. You haven't had those conversations yet and you don't know how humans work. You definitely should know at a year if this is going to work or not. Maybe at a year I'm going to be here hopefully with someone so you can tell me what you think. Come back. I do. I do compatibility testing with couples all the time. I do premarital coaching, I was a licensed marriage and family therapist for many years. Most of my clients, they come in single guys. Adam, I've been through five or 10 different girls in the last eight years. Your story you're telling me is very common. Adam, I've been through these women. I don't really know how to pick. I say, "Cool. Who do you have that vets with you?" We didn't even get into that today, but what are your friends doing? What are your family doing? Who do you trust around you to filter these women for you? Have them get relationships with her and get 15 sets of eyes on her and see how she relates to them. Yeah. I'm happy to fulfill that role for you if you need it. Let me know. Bring her in here. Bring her in here with the lights and the cameras on her or we'll go to dinner. I had a client not that long ago. I actually went out to dinner with him and his new partner and after what he said, "Hey, give me a report." I did. I gave an honest answer. Yeah. Good. By all means, man, make sure you have eyes on that, but make sure you're compatibility testing. Man, thank you for this conversation, I needed it. What does this change for you? Everything we've talked about here today. It doesn't actually change. What's two things that have changed because of this conversation? My expectations and my process, for sure. I think my process definitely needs to change. How avoidance are, we like numbers. That's why I had a road map in my head with how a relationship is supposed to go. It's just some stuff you're not sure about. For example, me telling her, "Hey, I'm not going to test you, but these are the things I'm looking for." Being myself, being direct from the get-go is very relieving to me. I would love to do that. You can't be with a woman who doesn't value that, by the way. Yeah, true. True. You're right. Because how's that going to work? Ever. I'm too direct for 99% of people. How is that? Do I need to act around her? Really quick, I'm going to say, I think you're too direct while being disconnected for most people. Yeah. Being direct is amazing. They're personally disconnected while being direct. That's the problem. They're perceiving that you don't care. Oh, yeah. That's right. Please be direct. Please always be direct. It does make a lot of sense, actually. They do say that. Good catch. So your process and your expectations. Fixing the jealousy part for me, just the trick that you gave me makes total sense. I think I would feel much better if I knew she would know my friends, I would know her friends. Mandatory. And the smallest things that you say even your wife does, just, I don't know what to call it, but it's like checking in with your, putting you in there in that relationship. So it makes sense, that makes a lot of sense to me. It's funny, right? We're not from remotely the same culture, but it looks like universally the same things work everywhere. Women and women are pretty much the same in every continent and wherever we're going to spread to on every planet, we'll still be the same past, present, future. One thing I'd love for you to really take away from this is going outside of yourself and collaborating with somebody else, whether that's with a woman, with a friend, with whoever it is, invite them in with a little bit of context and then ask them for their context. You need to start exchanging more information with other people so that you understand each other, otherwise you are on very different wavelengths and you'll misunderstand each other and you'll lose most of your best opportunities that way. Adam, if you sleep with my wife, I'm going to be real mad. I think that will ruin us. I appreciate that and that will never happen. Thank you for letting me know. Okay, I like it. As you say, that's very easy. I can do it. I got no problem with it. Do it more. I will. Do it for the rest of your life. I should. Wonderful. Thank you, Kimmy, for joining me. Thank you everybody at home for watching. I hope that this was helpful and enlightening to you. If you picked up some tips, maybe you gained some compassion for avoidant men. This is a great example of a good ethical loving of avoidant man who wants a real marriage and you heard him say that. Everybody at home, I'd love to hear in the comments, what was your experience watching this? What did you learn? Are you suspicious of the things that I've said? Did I get some things right or wrong? I'd love to hear from you. Avoidant men, if you're out there, I know you're watching, you tend to circle for six months, maybe a year at a there's that timeline. If you think that anything I said was off, I'd love to hear from you. Please, please, please let me know. Kimmy, is there anywhere that you want people to find you or would you prefer to brand name anonymous? I think I would like to be anonymous. Maybe it's until next time. Okay, understood. Ladies out there, if you want to write in, I will get your information to him. If you're looking for a husband, totally cool. Let me know. Other than that, he will remain a man of mystery. As always, you can find me on adamlainsmith.com. I have coaching available. If you need some help like this or if you're a couple that needs help, I do that too. I have courses on there, the how to love an avoidant man course that broke up Kimmy. And from his previous relationship, you can get broken up from the wrong partner or build a loving intimate relationship with the right partner. Go on adamlainsmith.com. I'll see you there.
