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(upbeat rock music) Welcome into a live edition of the Casey Laboratory presented by M-Prize Bank member F-D-I-C-R incredible partners in possible here at Casey Sports Network. Wednesdays are Matterdays here on K-C-S. And it's just kind of a fun episode because it's not our traditional game preview that Chiefs are on a bi-week, kind of nice. So we kind of just get some different takes flying with our own pal Matt Hamilton. Hamilton, what's good? - What's up guys, how's it going? - Oh man, it's going great buddy. We're really excited to get into this. Mattie Lane, how you doing? - You know, we're doing good. Unfortunately, the Chiefs don't play this weekend. So there's not, you know, the Chiefs aren't on. But the good news is tonight, it's going on guys. College football is now going on every single day from now until, I mean, it wasn't like Thanksgiving. So after the weekend, after Thanksgiving, Tuesday night games, Wednesday night games going on right now. It is actually the time of the year for College football and we could not all be more excited for 55 straight days of football on this podcast. - I hate to break it to you, but that's, no, I'm locked in on the Royals. I'm even a little locked in on the Royals right now. We got some updates going on the side. Bad news for everyone. Hamilton is a Yankees fan. So we are watching it from opposite sides. So if the Royals start, here's my only hope in my only request for everybody in the time, or in the chat. If the Royals just start whooping up on the Yankees, we need to get some comments in there. We need to get some trash talking in there about jazz chisel. Hey, what's your take on jazz chisel, by the way? - That's not a real name. - Yeah. - I've heard some slip ups with his name too, that I think many of them would enjoy. (laughing) - Well, what are those? - It's a cream. - We love all slip ups. (laughing) - Let's get right into that. Let's get right into it though. We got a chance to look at the kids he achieves without Rishi Rice, did some good things offensively. You know, and I think there's a lot to talk about from that game. But I think, you know, just get off the top. One thing kind of remains, I think, right? Is yes, there's some positive signs on the offensive side of the ball. And, you know, getting to see Travis Kelsey, you used Ms. Schuster, Xavier Worthy, being profiled a little bit differently. There's some good stuff there, but it does kind of feel like this time, this team needs to address that wide receiver position before the trade deadline. Let's say you, Matty Lane. - Yeah. So first of all, we got to kind of, you know, walk it back a little bit here. It's like, hey, Julius Ms. Schuster had a great game this past week against the Saints. And I don't know if any of us feel if that's particularly, you know, something that's going to be consistent week in a week out. Like I just did your take real quick, Hamilton. 'Cause, you know, we haven't got to talk to you about that game. Was there anything that you saw from this chief's offense versus the Saints that would make you think that they might not need some help that the wide receiver position moving forward since we now do know that Rishi Rice is going to miss the rest of the season, at least the very least irregular season, you know, some sources are giving a small window of hope for the Super Bowl, not happening. But do you have any take some of that chief's offense from their performance against the Saints? Yeah, I think it was definitely a step in the right direction. They looked good. Juju looks phenomenal kind of filling in that Rishi Rice role of kind of being that underneath receiver for Mon's and having some big yak plays. So that was a huge positive sign. But absolutely not. I don't think you can sit here and say, you know, just 'cause I had a good game against the Saints that they shouldn't try to make something else happen. You know, the Super Bowl is the only expectation right now. And you can't look at that roster offensively and say, you know, that everything's just going to be great. 'Cause again, all their injuries could happen too. Like you have to do everything you can to try to bolster the skill positions. And there are a lot of receivers that are seemingly going to be on the market this year. So I think they have to stay aggressive and try to take a big swing and make something happen 'cause you can't just count on that at night in and died out from Juju and Travis and Kareem Hunt. I mean, we're looking at, you know, what's going back Kareem Hunt's first 20 yard game since 2020. Juju's, Juju's biggest day, most receiving yards in a regular season game since 2018. Again, we talked about it when they signed Juju. I liked the pickup because I think, you know, last year was more about New England's offense than it was about Juju. You can still be productive, but you can't expect that kind of production. So I do think something else needs to happen here for the Chiefs and the Bayou is the perfect time to get it done. - Yeah. And so like, I think that's, I think it's the right way to look at it, right? Like it was a great performance from the Chiefs offense to get what they did out of Kareem Hunt and Juju Smith-Shuster and even Travis Kelsey to extend this game against the Saints. And while that can still happen, as they just showed you any given week, any given game, is that something you were going to rely on happening? You know, more times than not throughout the rest of the year and going into the playoffs. And like with the only real hope of reinforcements coming, being Hollywood Brown, who has not played a real season, even in the preseason, what like two snaps with this team. So I think that there is still plenty of room to add a more, a consistent piece, somebody that you can expect week in and week out to kind of show up and have some level of impact. So like, I don't think that the Saints game should really alter anyone's opinion on what the Chiefs should do. So with that in mind, like, yeah, I absolutely still stick to my guns that the Chiefs should be training for a wide receiver, looking around that I don't think this should be a McColl-Hardman-like trade where you're trying to fill out a guy at the bottom of the depth. Like I think that you are trying to get somebody that can step in and be a starter and not just a starter, but a guy that receives a significant volume. - I think they should, I mean, I think they should go for it. Like, this is, this is, you know, I think the Chiefs has done a tremendous job of roster building. And I understand that they have draft capital and that they like, you know, building this team through the draft. And part of the reason the success that they've had is, you know, that they've hit on draft picks. And when they've had a lot of draft capital, like they did with the Tyree Kiltrade, they hit on it. And they kind of build the defense out of it, right? But I just, I look at this team and I go look five and no. They got two games up on the Bills. They got one game up on the Houston Texans and they put themselves in a phenomenal position to let the, you know, the Super Bowl, a chance at a Super Bowl running through Arrowhead yet again. And Travis Kelsey is, you don't know how much longer you have with the Travis Kelsey. It could be this year, it could be next year. They 3P, who knows what happens? You know, he said he thinks he's got a couple more years of elite play. I hope that's the case. But I just, and again, I see so many, like, I see so many like positive signs. And I'm sure we'll get into some of those here, you know, with this offense, like the slow build towards, you know, towards the Super Bowl and towards their pursuit of a Super Bowl. But just getting, just getting another quality player into this, into the mix here and getting them early so that there's time to build with them for this time for that chemistry to build. Getting them in before the buy, getting a little jumpstart there could be huge for this team. And I think that you should be aggressive now. I think they should be looking to try to see if anybody's willing to sell. Might be after this week, you know, there might be some, you know, some one in five football teams out there looking to move on from some players. You know, and I think there's some names we can get to here in a second. But I just, I want to see this team go be aggressive. And, you know, one of those third round picks. I don't think off the table if it needs to, if they need to get done, depending on who it is, maybe even a second pick, second round pick. But I want to see another body because I do think that there's just, this could get scary for teams. Like they're already five and no, the defense looks good. They keep putting together great performances on the defensive side of the ball. We know we can see the glimpses of what this offense can be, but just adding another reliable target could really take it over the top. So Matt Hamilton, I'm going to ask you the question. How many, how many wide receiver trade targets have been interviewed on K Adam's show this last summer, on this last year? - There have been a few. There's one, there's one big one in particular. And Devonta Adams, who, you know, hearing that name thrown out a lot, you know, with the Chiefs connected to potentially, it's still really hard for me to see that happening because I think, you know, the Chiefs are obviously gonna, he's got the Raiders are gonna have to eat a ton of salary to make that happen, which means the Chiefs are gonna have to go up at least a second round pick to make that happen. There's also the egos involved. It's really hard for me to see Mark Davis dealing him because he feels like he's ripping them off, which I don't think Preffeech is going to go there. So I just, I don't see it. I think he definitely gets moved and I think it happens really soon, but I don't think it scans the city. - Yeah, that one is one of the more far-fetched possibilities that I think has been floated for this. And well, on some level it too, I mean, it makes sense if you can find a way to make the deal done from the Chiefs perspective in that you get this guy that's gonna be a volume target eater. He's a clear cut wide receiver one, and he wins in the areas that the Chiefs most often struggle with when they get down to the red zone. He can be press coverage. You can put him on the backside of all of Andy Reed's fun three-by-one concepts. And he's still actually a threat unlike some other guys that they have lined up in that spot over the years. So it makes sense. It's just, I have a hard time seeing that one, the two teams coming to some kind of agreement. But then two, if you're trading for Devonta Adams, you're probably gonna have to get a new contract for him, and one of the Chiefs gonna pay him going forward beyond this year, even once the Raiders need some salary. So it just, it seems very unlikely that deal would happen. The only chance that Chiefs might have is if they are randomly willing to spend more than they need the other team. They just have such the clear cut best offer. It's just, it still seems hard to connect those dots for me. - I think one thing that's gonna be interesting is like I do think the Chiefs need to be aggressive. They have the early bi-week and they should be aggressive, but how big of a detriment is that from a cost perspective for them, trying to get out ahead of this early with some teams may not be willing to buy, or willing to sell at this point, right? So you kind of, you have to have two to tango, especially six games into the season. But I think that's something that, maybe the Chiefs have to overpay a little bit for anybody, not even just a Devonta Adams, but anybody, if they are going to try to get somebody out early. But I have a few names here of some potential targets, right? And I'll just ask both of you this question. So you got Darius Slate and Deontae Johnson, new cop kids, Amari Cooper, bad football teams, in a vacuum, in a vacuum. You know, we're not talking about contract quite yet, but in a vacuum of those four I just brought up. Who is the player that you would like to see most be a Kansas City Chief wide receiver just from a fit perspective? Hamilton, what do you think? - To me, it's no question it's Amari Cooper. With where he is at this stage, his career, he's still one of the best route runners we have. We saw, you know, last year with Flacka, hopefully he was, I can't believe I'm saying that sound, but last year with Flacka, what he was able to do with a quarterback that would actually give him chances down the field. He's still a phenomenal talent. And I like, I know you said not to bring a contract, but as far as a one year rental situation, you're not going to have to, like Matt is talking about, the Devonta Adams thing gets very complicated. With Amari, it's simple. It's a one year rental. He'll play this out. He'll try to get another contract in free agency. I don't think it's going to be contingent. Trading for him is not going to be contingent on a new deal. He'll play this thing out. So I love the fit from a player perspective. I love the fit from a contract perspective. I think he would elevate his cheats off as tremendously if they make that move. - Yeah, I think Cooper makes the most, just since we know we're not as on contract, he makes the most sense, is they designed everything about that contract to be moved. And I still think he's a good player that has completely given up on the situation that he's ended, it's hard to blame him. Watching just what's going on with that entire offense. So I do think that while this year looks like a down year for Cooper, you move him to a better situation. I think he very quickly returns back to the Flaco level performance just that he was putting up last year. And he does a lot of the same stuff I was talking about with Devonta Adams for the cheats. He would play a very similar role in the red zone, beat that press man stuff that they struggle against. So I like him, that's going into like this whole thing. I just, if you wanna see my entire thoughts on all wide receivers, you can go to kcsn.substack.com. I just wrote an article about this, actually this morning it went up there, what I would give up for all these guys, quick thoughts on them all. Going into writing that, Cooper was probably the guy I would have wanted the most. After just flipping through a lot of targets, I'm still a sucker for Deontay Johnson and I always will be. And I understand, I think that she's technically would have to move a little bit of money or wait an extra couple of weeks to fit him under how much cap space they have left. But he's definitely a guy that they could make work. If the Panthers are willing to move on from him to try to recoup some draft capital that they have lost over the years, try to reset their team 'cause they need to reset it again. I just watching him, I think he would fit so perfectly into an Andy Reed system. The way he runs his routes, the way he can create separation, you can use him to all three levels on these crossing routes. I just, I can very easily see him sliding into this offense in a lot of different roles. And it's perfect because he comes with built in like inconsistencies of dropping wide open passes, of occasionally making mental errors and then making up for it. But he has all that built in already. So you're just, you know, you can expect it as soon as that trade out. - I think Deontay Johnson makes, oh, go ahead Hamilton. - Oh no, I was going to grab, I do think he makes a lot of sense. I do think, you know, it's tough because of his contract situation where he is at his career, you're right, like the end where the Panthers are right now, he would make sense to boom. I do think there isn't a little bit of an attachment there though, from, I could be wrong, but just from what I felt, being at Panthers camp, like I think Dave, he and Dave could also have a really good relationship. I think even he, you know, even with the struggles there, like they look at him as like a, you know, a piece they can build something around, but obviously when you start losing all these games, the way they have it changes things quickly. But I do think he would be a really good sit there too, and a realistic one given where the Panthers are right now. - Boy, I would sign a multidea, sorry, I can't do it again. Just like, he's one of the guys that he make the trade. You could probably sign him given his age for another two to three year deal, and like you're the Chiefs, and you don't feel bad about that. Whereas like Cooper given his age, and probably wanting a little bit more money, it would be harder to have him for more than a year. I think we saw the Chiefs this past year with the one year deal to Hollywood Brown. They didn't potentially want another guy in that room. If you trade for Johnson, and if the, you know, it goes well the last half of the year, you now have a guy that you have a little jumpstart to extend or bring back again for another year. So like, I think that he's a guy that you could target for more than just half of the season, and we already know the Chiefs are reportedly interested in trying to get him away from the Steelers during the off season. So there's just a couple extra reasons for it, but just watching this tape, he really just looks like an anti-retype receiver to me. - Yeah, they felt like they knew how to use him, and that's why they went ahead and tried to trade for him. And I do think he makes a lot of sense, as a guy that can move around, and then run from multiple spots. He can be, I think he can run an X-Treat, he can run in the middle of the field, short to intermediate, even a little bit of deep stuff too. Like, there's a lot that he can do, that there's a completeness, and I think he would fit in really nice with just the totality of the room, gives you some insulation, you know, on some of the, you know, some other spots on the field, right? So like, I think he could fit in in a lot of different places, that gives you a little bit more versatility with what you can do with your receiving group, and a little bit more flexibility, but I do think it's a good point that, you know, like, yeah, the Panthers timeline, you know, maybe they, if, you know, they might be back in the quarterback market again in this draft, and they think out loud, and if they like the Deontay Johnson experience so far, and Dave Kanales likes it, and I think Dave Kanales is gonna get a chance to develop whoever the next quarterback is for this football team. He better, or Dave Teppers, and a continually terrible owner, but I just, yeah, maybe they wanna keep them, and they are the ones that extend. I wouldn't stun me at all if they want to be the ones that extend. - I do wanna say, address, too. I see, you know, comment asking about DJ Deontay Johnson being a bad locker room guy, and, you know, trying my knowledge of the situation, and what I've seen, and what I've heard. It was one of those things that just, it ran stale in Pittsburgh. It wasn't working out well. There were a lot of frustrations, obviously, that offense was horrendous. The quarterback play was horrendous, and there were some frustrations bubbling up, and it was just he needed a fresh start type of a thing, and from what I was here in Carolina, and what I've continued here in Carolina, he's been a tremendous teammate. He's been super supportive of Bryce, even as he went through his struggles. Like, it's been, you know, sometimes you're just in a bad situation, and, you know, it doesn't work out for either side, and it's better for everybody to move on, but I don't think, you know, I don't think we can label him as, like, a locker or a problem, because there were some things kind of, you know, that popped up the Steelers with that frustrating offense. - And he got that stigma, and it was, you know, there was a couple plays where it looked like he had stopped running around or quitting on a play, and then he gets on Twitter and fires off about it, and like, it was after years of dealing with, you know, the ghost of Paul Bunyan playing quarterback going into whatever they had after Ben Rafflisberger. And so, like, yeah, it was tough for him, and everything I have heard, though, like I said, like, he's a guy that works really hard. Like, he shows up, he goes, you know, he does everything you need to do. It's like, it's never sounded like his teammates never like him, it doesn't sound like he's ever been like an active issue. He just, he might pop off on Twitter from time to time, and again, this is a built-in thing that comes with Chiefs up players, so we're good. Yeah. - Aaron Judd just struck out, speaking of Yankees. Wally Hipp. Isaiah Pacheco, good running back in a player that we've all loved in Kansas City, right? This is one of our, I think he's one of the most fun Chiefs that we've had, the energy that he has is infectious, and he's a good football player. Kareem Hunt has played a exceptional couple of weeks here and has had a really good strong performance since his return to Kansas City. And I think there's a nuanced conversation about the Isaiah Pacheco Kareem Hunt experience. And when both are back in the backfield, I want to know from you, Hamilton, from your perspective, who do you think should be getting the bulk of the carries for the Kansas City Chiefs? Should it be Kareem Hunt or should it be Isaiah Pacheco based on what you've seen in recent, recent memory? - I think it's a good question. I mean, Hunt has had good so far coming out of fresh. I still think to me, I think it's a great, it's a great issue to have when Pacheco comes back because I do think, yeah, again, we'll see what happens with the wide receiver marking and what they end up doing there, but I do think the recipe for this team has a lot of success. It's to lean on that run game a little bit and this defense and being able to have two backs that you can consistently rely on is awesome. And I do think that's what it's going to be. I don't think it's going to be, we're going to see one guy getting 25 carries a game once Pacheco's there. I think it's going to be, it's going to be a split. And that allows you to keep both of those guys even fresher. So I still think Pacheco to me, like if I had to, I'd still think Pacheco's the guy, but I think it's a heavy rotation with Kareem Hunt. - Yeah, I go, I definitely go back and forth on this a little bit because I think Pacheco clearly is a more dynamic player, right? He can definitely give you some more explosive plays. He's a little bit younger, so like you would expect him to stick at that level throughout the whole year. And like, I think you could even make an argument that Kareem Hunt looked even a, you know, half steps, you know, less explosive against the Saints when he did the Chargers in that first week, whether he was amped up, whether it was the work world they were putting on a guy coming, you know, essentially off of his couch, whatever it may be, right? I just think that, you know, you would expect Pacheco to be able to keep up his level of play a little bit longer. But man, watching Kareem Hunt run, he just does some stuff that I don't think Isaiah Pacheco can do for this offense. Like you watch Kareem Hunt and he still has the vision and the lateral agility to change his gap, to press the line of scrimmage, to jump from the A gap to the B gap and to hit some of these jump cuts that I don't think we've really seen very often from Isaiah Pacheco. And I know Pacheco came into this year a little bit lighter so that he could be a little bit quicker and more agile. And actually, it helps his running style. He no longer seems as angry at the ground when he runs. And like, so maybe we were gonna get there as it continued, but I really do think Kareem Hunt is better. It consistently finding space than Pacheco is, even if he's not gonna be anywhere near the same home run threat. So I can see it being a pretty solid split. You just let those two guys both run really hard, eat up a lot of carries for this team and see what happens. But I wonder if it comes to you afforded to and they are gonna run the ball, if I don't feel more comfortable with Kareem Hunt taking that carry because I don't think that he's as likely to run into traffic as Pacheco has shown over the past. - And I think that's the point. I think when it's situations where they need to run and everyone goes, they need to run I agree with you. I feel more comfortable with Kareem Hunt with him back there. But yeah, I think, and it's also, it's interesting. We haven't seen him really take a heavy workload in a while because of the situation he was then in Cleveland too. So that could mean, hey, he is able to hand split even at an advanced age for running back. But still, I think the best scenario is a split and you use them strategically. - Yeah, I think Kareem Hunt was running hard at G-E-H-A Field at Arrowhead Stadium. And G-E-H-A is a proud and caring member of Cheese Kingdom and was to give fans an opportunity to be part of the coin toss for their favorite team when the back to back champs. You like that, Matty? - Let's go. - The Kansas-E Chiefs take the field this season, make sure you're right in the action by entering to win a chance to be the G-E-H-A coin toss captain. Lucky winners will be right at the 50 yard line for the coin toss as well as additional prizes for games against Tampa Bay, Denver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles and Houston all coming up. Enter for a chance to win sweet access game tickets in a once in a lifetime experience with G-E-H-A, all cheese fans living in Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas. Missouri and Nebraska are eligible to enter. Potential winners must pass a background check. Contest is open to the public. So here's what you gotta do. If you wanna get part of this, if you wanna enter, go to Chiefs.com/G-E-H-A to enter. Real simple, you should do Chiefs.com/G-E-H-A to enter for a chance of once in a lifetime experience to be on the field for one of the most electric moments. You know, the fans are going nuts right at the coin toss. People are amped for the game. Make sure you're taking advantage of that opportunity G-E-H-A dot or Chiefs.com/G-E-H-A. - Dude, I'm gonna take one. I'll let this one there, I'm tipping it. I'm tipping the coin flip, I'm letting them know if it's tails or heads. - You're just, you're, you're... Just let them know. If you get to actually toss the coin, like you just practice strategically to see if you can try to get it to lay in on it. - I didn't think I was gonna get tossed in, but yeah, if we're gonna do that, and it's even gonna be a better wing rant, better success rate. - All right, well, we're gonna take a break, we'll be back right after this. - Shop Chief Stickits and Boar with no fees, plus same big with code KCSN at ticketsforless.com, the official ticket provider of KCS Sports Network. With big wireless providers, what you see is never what you get. Somewhere between the store and your first month's bill, the price you thought you were paying magically skyrockets. With Ben Mobile, you'll never have to worry about gotchas ever again. When Mint Mobile says $15 a month when you purchase a three month plan, they mean it. To get this new customer offer in your new three month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mittmobile.com/kcsnlab. That's mittmobile.com/kcsnlab. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mittmobile.com/kcsnlab. $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three month plan, only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on a limited plan, additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. - This episode is brought to you by Honda. When you test drive the new Pro Log EV, there's a lot that could impress you about it. There's the class leading passenger space, the clean, thoughtful design, and the intuitive technology. But out of everything, what you'll really love most is that it's a Honda. Visit Honda.com/ev to see offers. (upbeat music) - Thanks everybody, hanging out with us tonight. A little bi-week action. We don't have a game preview, but Wednesdays are still Matterdays and we are very excited about that. Xavier Worthy, getting a little bit more opportunity in this last week. Trying to, I think, I watched him the game back, but she just really did try to feature him a little bit more. He winds up getting six targets in the game, and I think it couldn't have even been more. See him starting to get ramped up a little bit, wanting to get him involved. And I think they need to get him involved, Hamilton. - Yeah, they absolutely do, and you're right. There were more things drawn up for him. You saw a lot of that cheap motion with him. They weren't able to connect on a bunch of them, but I think we're gonna see more and more opportunities, all of that type of stuff. But obviously we saw the creative design or head zone with that Travis Kelsey read option with him. And I just, I love the way he runs the ball because it's not just a lot of a series in that situation. They're trying to bounce that outside and just run to the pylon. He went and did a hout and then found the seam and cut that thing up in there and worked his way into the end zone. He just, he has vision like her hunting back once he gets the ball on his hands and he really knows how to set up his blocks and find those seams. So it's not just, you know, again, he's not just a speed or a seer that just tries to outrun everybody. He really has a good feel for how to run the ball. So again, I know you don't want to give him a ton of characters and put that where it's there on him, but just mixing in that, you know, maybe mixing in just a little bit more here in there too. Again, also as the season goes on and we get deeper into the playoffs. Like, you know, this team knows how to play the long game. I'll say that. - Yeah, and it did seem like he's, it's hard to say that he's like usage or anything. I think ramped up a ton for this game. A lot of it was still the same stuff he had been doing the previous weeks, but it didn't seem like there was a little bit more of a specific goal to try to take a couple more shots downfield and Patrick Holmes had said that after the Chargers game, you know, they hit the deep shot to him in the Chargers game and he said, hey, sometimes I see the coverage pre-snap and just decide the deep shots not going to be there. So I don't even look at it, but every now and then I got to remember that, you know, we can still take these. We can still have a chance at them. It's like it didn't seem like some of that was still in the back of their mind. So they did try to push the ball downfield to him. They did use that sheet motion. They ran like a little like blaze out kind of thing out of it and he was open and Mahomes just kind of, you know, back footed it and didn't get the ball there. Then they did it again a little bit later. And then I think they ran him on a crosser after it was the, it was the mesh play that I think a lot of people got mad at Mahomes for throwing it behind him, but it was zoned. I think Mahomes kind of expected him to sit. It's like, that's the miscommunication stuff you still get between two guys like that. So I, my bigger thing isn't necessarily his anything ramped up this week. I'm curious to see what his role looks like coming out of the bi-week, what it looks like when they give him two more, you know, weeks to end the extra time after she writes his injury. Cause right now a lot of it's still your fast. Let's see if you can run by a boundary corner and then we throw the ball up to you. Even if you beat him, you're still kind of getting squeezed into the sideline, which I think we have seen. There's been some success there. Not as much as maybe you'd hope, but I don't know if that's the best spot to use them. I think he's going to be better doing the deep overs. The deep cross is maybe running some posts where you can hit him the ball on the move. So coming out of the bi-week, do they have more to put on his plate? Because we got to remember Hollywood Brown went down late in the off season and it was down. Like if your worthy's world was probably pretty narrow and then it just needs to get bigger and bigger because the injuries, I just don't know if they're ready for that on the rookie going into the bi-week. - I think they paid a few things off in this game. Like I do think the blaze out off of the cheap motion was a payoff to some of the stuff that they had shown previously. I like that they got him on that little drag route where Mahomes kind of deadlegged and just lobbed it up over the top to him. And I think we're talking about this game for Xavier worthy a little bit differently. We're talking about Maddie about this a little bit. If Mahomes just hits that deep crosser that he's wide open on. - Which one? - The one, there's like a three man row. You have the deep cross. - I know, there was just the second one. - I know, but if Mahomes looked like he was about ready to uncork that one. And then I don't know if his eyes might have dropped just a little bit. And if he just, John Carlos stayed and hit a home run. If Mahomes just doesn't drop his eyes, it's just a fraction off. Then I think we're talking about a different game for him. That's a 40 yard reception. We're talking 68 yards, four catches a touchdown, seven targets, and we're saying things a little bit differently. So I do think, you know, and it's always gonna be a little bit more high variance. I think with Xavier worthy, I think they need to make it a little bit, a little bit less variance and get him involved a little bit more here. - Give us some real routes, man. You know, the kids, I've seen him run enough. I didn't run enough real outs. I've seen him run the blaze outs and even going back to college. Like I've seen him run real routes. He's not a guy that you have to slap on just a vertical route tree and say, okay, this is what your goal is. Now, I will also say, there was a couple of places where Xavier worthy, I think was supposed to be a clear out route down the middle of the field. And he looked a little, not confused, but he looked like he was thinking and processing how to navigate through traffic. And I do think it kind of messed up the flow of the play because he wasn't beating some crossers coming in behind him. There was one play in particular where I think a defensive end actually popped out and gyps him and all of a sudden now, he's in the wake of Juju who's running a little crossing route and it kind of got everybody tangled up. There was another one where he was supposed to run through the middle of the field and they had some deep comebacks coming on either side of him and he was behind their pace because he just wasn't sure how to navigate all the zone defenders underneath. So like there's still some stuff he's obviously learning and I think that's why you slow rule it out. So I have a lot of hope coming out of the bye week, but I do want to see some more real routes. Like I've seen enough nine routes. I've seen enough fades of him. I know that's in the bag. Can we get something else? So can we get some routes that are breaking a little bit? I'm not asking for him to run into the middle of the defense over and over again and get lit up as 170 pounds, but we can do more than what we have so far and see if he can win on those routes versus just kind of be in the sacrificial space clear of the majority of the time. - Yeah, you're 100% right. I mean, we saw it in college. He can run the whole route tree and we haven't really seen it yet. You're right, there's stuff. He definitely has to clean up some things for sure. And that's going to be, you know, it's a totally different ball game at this level and there's a lot of stuff you have to learn. Like that's to be expected, I think, but you're right. Just, yeah, let's see if you run a little bit more of the route tree. - I think, you know, I think the impact of Xavier worthy is still felt though, the Chiefs have shown enough in the vertical passing game that the defenses are honoring it. And if they don't, the Chiefs will make them pay. I think this is still an explosive player that like some of the success of Juju last week can be attributed to what Xavier worthy was doing with the vertical stretch and Travis Kelsey too. So they've done enough at this point to establish, you know, the fun, you know, out there that, you know, instead of just establishing the vertical passing game, but hopefully they can start connecting a little bit more and building off of that role for Xavier worthy. Patrick Levan Mahomes had probably his best performance of the season since the Baltimore Ravens game and arguably better than that one. I think there was a lot of positive takeaways from that game. Hamilton, what did you see out of Mahomes? - Yeah, it definitely was his best game of the season so far. Just using his legs well, which is always like, the confidence, I think it was like some of that confidence on the swagger was back to this offense a little bit, like not just him, but obviously Kelsey with that ridiculous lateral and all that. So like that's what you see out of them when they're rolling, when they're feeling it. And, you know, we saw more of that, Mahomes. You mentioned the play to worthy where he gets it up over Ken Jordan. I don't think like, I still don't appreciate how ridiculous the stuff I was, how tough that is to make for a quarterback and put it in the spot where he did where he can catch it and run. But there were some missed opportunities too, as you guys were talking about with worthy. I think there were some plays that were kind of left out there. And I think there's still, we're still not seeing Mahomes at peak Mahomes yet. This was a positive step, but we're still not totally there yet. Matty, do you agree? - Yeah, it's hard because it's hard to look at Patrick Mahomes and not like think about him and try to evaluate or grade him on the Patrick Mahomes scale and not just like, you know, hey, how are you playing right now in terms of, you know, just a regular NFL quarterback scale? 'Cause like, if we're just comparing him to the rest of the league yet he's maybe not playing as well as some other guys around the league, but he's still, this game in particular, puts him right back up there towards the top because I thought they used under pressure a lot, especially early in the game. And I think that clearly messed up some stuff and it made him start to feel a little bit more uncomfortable. And so you saw him scramble on some third downs, especially when if he keeps his eyes up and tries to move around in the pocket, that's where some of those plays that were left out. They're like, hey, if you just move in the pocket here, you probably can hit a bigger play than the eight yard scramble that does pick up the first down though, right? So how hard can we complain about it? I think we're moving in the right direction from Mahomes, right? He's like, I think he's gonna talk about it a little bit. He specifically tried to stay in the pocket a little bit more, right? Like that was a goal you could see. I don't know if he felt comfortable doing it 'cause he looked a little frantic sometimes trying to, but he was trying to. And I think that was a big step. There was a couple of plays still with that left side and even Joanne Taylor struggled in this game. So it's coming together, it's getting there. I agree with your very first one though. He was playing confidently, right? Like he was making some throws that I think he maybe wouldn't have made in the past few weeks. He would have pulled down. He would have second guessed himself and thrown out a couple extra pump fakes and tried to run. So it's trending in the right direction. And this was probably the best football he's played since the first half of that Baltimore game. Like he came into the year throwing confidently with his chest. They were trying all these different windows and then now we kind of slid back but it looks like he's on his way back up and the more he trusts the guys around and make plays, I think that only continues. Yeah, I look at this season. I think in the pivot away from, you know, Mahomes gets dropped in a phenomenal situation, hits the ground running with that kind of first wave with Tyree Kiel Travis Kelsey. They go invest in Sammy Watkins. They got a really good solid offensive line and we slowly pivot it away from kind of that version of the Chiefs with Patrick Moms on a rookie contract to every single year. This becomes more about Mahomes, you know, how you manage the cap, how you manage all this stuff becomes a lot more important as you're trying to build a team around them and keep good players. And, you know, so I think last year you saw a little bit, I think was the first revelation of kind of the slog of that, right? With the, with the, with contracts becoming more tight and, you know, needing just to simply rely on your, you know, on your rookie contract players in a different way. And I think you saw a process that played out as this team struggled through a lot of different things last season, but you saw ultimately this team find what will win them football games as they worked through a lot of different things. You know, there was, you know, it was experimental almost to a degree with what they were trying to do with some of the receivers and giving them, you know, giving certain guys a longer leash and all that. So I think you're seeing the same thing again, a little bit this year right now where, you know, the Chiefs are trying to go cheap at left tackle and they've got a great interior offensive line and they've gone through some issues here with the two top receivers you anticipated having. They're now out for the season or, you know, most of the season. I think it's funny that we're kind of laughing it off a little bit, just like a little, not laughing it off, but like, we're acknowledging, hey, this team definitely still needs a receiver, even though there are still a lot of positive signs that I think the pain of last year has put them a little bit farther ahead than they were this year. Now that doesn't, and this is where Matt is, you know, what we were talking about a little bit earlier, I still think that this is a process. This is a process for him. He's got to be comfortable with Juan E. Morris. He wasn't as comfortable with Kingsley Suamata Iya, that might have affected some things there. Now we go to the to Juan E. Morris and he's trying to give that pocket a bigger chance better than he has for the entirety of the seasons. He's hanging in a little bit longer than he has in some of these games. He's trying to hang out in the pocket a little bit longer because he has plays that can be made when he's giving the structure of the play a little bit more of a chance. And so he's, yeah, he dropped his eyes a little bit quick on some of these plays when he's hanging from the pocket, but he's trying to hold in there a little bit longer than he has in recent memory. And so I think this is just a slope, this is part of the build. We went from a little bit more ANC and a little bit lack of comfort where that wasn't the issue I think last week. I think, you know, against the Saints, I think we were starting to establish more trust with that offensive line. Next step, finding ways to get Xavier worthy, more consistent opportunities, more consistent targets, right? You know, but you saw the Juju stuff working. You saw Kelsey working. I think he played outstanding in a lot of different ways. The throw to Samaje P-Ran when he's scrambling around, like that was a vintage Mahomes play. And I think Samaje P-Ran stopped. If he doesn't stop, that's a touchdown. He thought, you know, he wanted, I think Samaje might've stopped 'cause he thought he was going back line, you know, somewhere back there. But I've really walked away just from that game. Like there's a lot of good there and there's a lot of the building blocks there for this thing to continue to get better and better and better. And I think this team is showing a, you know, a formula for winning football. And they just got to keep, you know, kind of just keep, just keep grinding it out. That's what the regular challenge it looks like for Chiefs fans now, Maddie, Hamilton. And that's the other thing too is, you know, not that you can, the Collin Saunders play was, was ridiculous. But like, we still haven't seen him go through a game without a turnover yet. And they're still thought, oh, and you know, he's going to find a rhythm at some point that's a little bit better. And as we saw it, you know, even with all the struggles they had offensively last year, when it was time to lock in in the playoffs, he was almost went through that entire playoff run mistake free. So this is a time to experiment, to try to try some different things out inside. You're working all these new guys in with all the injuries. So eventually we're going to get to a point where those turnovers stop. And even with the turnovers, they still haven't heard him well. So, you know, again, we're evaluating him on the Mahomescale and he's not at peak Mahomes yet, but still some pretty good football. Yeah, and it's something that's going to get better as the year goes on, right? Like I think we all agree with that. He's going to continue to get better as the year goes on. My, I guess, frustration with watching it right now is a lot of what happens, what seems like in the flow of the typical, I mean, typical playoff, traditional playoff, they are progressing. He's not progressing to anything downfield at all. Everything that comes within the flow of the play is either essentially Kelsey or Noah Gray on some kind of comeback route over the ball, or it's a shorter route, you know, under the sticks, five yards, that's why it's a dot solo. Anytime they push the ball downfield, it seems like specifically designated to be a shot play. They aren't really getting to anything, even to the intermediate areas, off of just like basic play calls. So that's where I kind of would like to see that come back and I understand that teams are trying to take it away. And to kids point, there's a lack of trust coming off the left side and I'm not certain, we always go to the left side. I'm not certain Patrick Mahomes loves Joanne Taylor and how the way he and Trace Smith usually leave a little bit of a gap between them and their sets just because they set so differently. There's a lot of pressure that spikes inside of Joanne Taylor sometimes. Like, I don't even know if he feels super comfortable with him at right tackle compared to, you know, having bitches shorts there in the past, or even Andrew Wiley who was a little bit more stout. So it's just, it's a learning process. You just would really like to see them be able to threaten downfield and not way downfield, but the intermediate areas within the structure of a play a little bit more and hopefully that comes. Hopefully that comfort level comes and he gets there. And I also think adding a receiver that wins in those areas regularly would probably be beneficial to that. Or in the red zone when the space is condensed and you know, you can't get a flood, a three level flood to one side of the field but that she's like to get, that's kind of hard to get when you're on the five yard line. So maybe go get a wide receiver that can be. And then we can let them almost feel, you know, play a little bit more space. - Yeah. And you look at the, I pulled up the passing chart one attempt over 20 yards, just two, just three attempts overall over 15 yards. - Yeah. - So there's still, there's a lot of that short, still to years, yeah. - All I keep coming back to, and this is why I just feel like it's gonna, they, if last year didn't tell you anything, it's a lot of the struggles, frustrations, and things that we notice on the outside, they acknowledge and they know too, because they got better at a lot of the things that kept him from having success last year offensively. And they trimmed the fat, they got rid of it, they eliminated a lot of the turnovers. And by the way, they started hitting deep, deep passes a lot more in the playoffs. And like I do think that there, there, there's enough of, you know, the experience last year, I think is gonna pay off dividends as they're working through this year. And I already think that this looks a lot better than it did last year at this point in the year. So just keep working through it. And any, any, any of you'd always use the comment, keep working it. That's exactly what this team is gonna do. I, I do feel confident that because of what we've seen over this, you know, last few years, that this team is going to find some success on the field and it's gonna be sooner rather than later. We've talked a lot about the offensive side of the, the, the football here. It's a bomb, but I, you know, Matt Hamilton's here. We got to talk about him a zoom-made guy. Nick Bolton had yet another really strong performance against the New Orleans Saints. He's building, so he, like, he keeps stacking those games together. He really does. And I thought he was, you know, he was aggressive, getting in the ball career. Like he was really able to take advantage of the Saints' center issues in that game with that, with that Caesar Ruiz in there. But I mean, he was, he was flying to the ball. This, this Chiefs are on defense. We've been talking about it week after week. They have been, they have shut down every top running back in the NFL. I feel like, I mean, Camara, Camara's been on a scorching pace. Obviously, the Saints having some offensive line issues is definitely a factor there, but once again, I mean, this are on defense. It's the top running back and rise to the occasion and it just completely shuts them down, takes them out of the game. - Yeah. And like, there weren't defense overall, like from top to bottom, it's really good. The way the Chiefs are structured is it's not like they sell out to stop the run either, right? It gets something that they just still, they play their defense. They're gonna match lighter personnel with nickel a lot. They're not gonna sit there and load up the box, but they're still stopping the run. It starts up front with the D line, obviously, but I really do think these last few games here from Nick Bolton, we've seen him get healthier, but then also like he might be playing some of the best focal of his career. And like I know, two years ago, the last year he was done with injuries up and down two years ago, he had a super strong season, but I still thought there was a lot of chasing plays down from behind. He was getting in on tackles a little bit downfield. He was kind of having to go around blocks to get there. And this year, right now, especially in this game, he does seem like he's triggering downhill a little bit earlier. And some of it's gonna be the cold run blitzes, right? Like Steve Spengo loves to call run blitzes on early downs, but it takes a good player. Like, you know, you still gotta execute. You still gotta shoot the gap. You still gotta see what's happening. You still gotta make the play. Nick Bolton's been excellent at doing that when this dialing him up. I thought he showed a pretty good job getting out to the edge when teams have tried to get run some outside zone stuff on them. We saw it against the Falcons stuffing them on the foot down. You saw it a couple times against the Saints. I just think he's seeing it really well in the box right now. And you go and look at the coverage stats. They're not great. And there's always gonna be a couple of plays. And it always is on replay where you see Nick Bolton like frantically waving his arms, trying to figure out like which route he's getting passed off to. I'm not saying is it a bad way. It's just like he gets where he needs to go, but he looks like he's a little lost for a second. But then you go look at everything and like, yeah, he might not defend a tight end one on one, you know, and man coverage when he's coming across the zone, but you watch the Chiefs and you throw in guy out to the flat, any wide receiver, wide receiver, running back screen, Nick Bolton's the first guy, you know, triggering downhill on it. He's the guy that's making the first contact consistently. So I do think that Chiefs have done a good job kind of shielding him from having to showcase all of his coverage skills or like shortcomings, but also allowing him to play aggressive and downhill versus the run of the past. And like, it's been really impressive these past few weeks to see how much better he's playing than he was since that very first game of the year. - I think one thing that, you know, with this team in like the last four years in this defense, Nick Bolton's been a part of the last four years. And, you know, a lot of this core has been, you know, a part of this defense the last three years at least, right? This is the third season for that Vaunted 2022 class. And there's just a lot of confidence. And Steve Spagnolo seems to be calling games with a lot more confidence early season than even you've seen in recent memory. It's just because there's so much equity built up with this team. And a lot of that ties to his confidence with Bolton, what he's calling and how he's getting these guys aligned. And those are the things that, you know, yes, the coverage stuff isn't always great. And there is definitely some shortcomings there. And that, you know, that's tough to handle at times, right? But they're getting into the right coverage calls. They're getting into the right coverage adjustments. And that's because they've got, you know, a really smart football player there playing the linebacker position for them and doing a really great job against the run as well. So I think, you know, he's putting together a really strong season. It's going to be fascinating to see what the Chiefs do with him from a contract perspective if they're going to keep them, how much they're willing to pay for that, right? Because it's going to be a very nuanced conversation. I think when that all goes down because, you know, how do you pay a guy that maybe has coverage shortcomings when the top backers and, you know, in free agency are the guys that typically have some of the kind of game-changing coverage traps. But Bolton's got a lot of other things beyond just, you know, some of those struggles there. And that's going to be a fascinating conversation. But if he keeps doing this and doing what he's doing, he is going to make himself a lot of money in Kansas City or somewhere else. That is going to do it for this episode of the Casey Laboratory. Thank you all so much for listening, watching, supporting. We love you. We appreciate you. We'll catch you later. Hook 'em.
