WORT 89.9FM Madison

Tales from Ukraine

On today's show, Yuri Rashkin steps into the host seat and talks with Madison-based Ukrainian activist Natalka Akulenko about Rashkin's recent trip to Ukraine. They discuss the reality of Ukrainian life amid the ongoing war, Rashkin's popular Youtube channel Rashkin Report, and finding joy and beauty in Ukraine.

Broadcast on:: 19 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: other

[MUSIC] Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Public Affair. My name is Yuri Raskin, and I am excited to welcome you to the program today. Alan Raffis obviously is not here, but he will be back next week. So, I'm excited to welcome all of you, and I also understand that Alan's callers are a little more, you know, they tend to call in. So, I'm looking forward to having lots of calls today. And we are going to talk about a topic that's kind of far, but kind of close, and that's Ukraine. And the reason that we're going to be talking about it is because I went there. And to help me share the story with you and to take your calls, I'm really thrilled to welcome to join me here on the air, Natascha Okolianka, who is a once WRT volunteer and an active member of Madison Ukrainian community. So, Natascha, welcome. Hi, Yuri. Thank you so much. I'm excited to talk to you today. You're one of my recent media discoveries and media heroes, and I also have been a long-term volunteer at WRT, so it's nice to be back home in a way. You just said that Ukraine and what's going on is pretty far away, but I think it's also hits really close to home too. The increasing number of Ukrainians who find their new home here in Madison, and we know Yuri and appreciate his participation in our Ukrainian community, and it's nice to have a prominent figure like that in our midst, especially for someone who is actually Russian, but also on the right side of history. So, Yuri, tell me, why did you go to Ukraine? It doesn't seem like a good tourist season in Ukraine right now. Yes, but I just also was framed as a Russian, and I have to clarify that I am ethnically Jewish, although in America that just creates more confusion. So, I feel like I'm just opening a can of warrants, but there it is. Nonetheless, I was thinking that I'm not from Ukraine because I was born in Moscow. My parents were born in Moscow, but if you think about it, there's really no such thing as Russian Jews because before 1917, before Soviet Revolution Jews were really not allowed to live in Russia, so they live where? Ukraine. In Ukraine. Right, so this is how I kind of discovered a little bit about my roots that I really didn't even, I guess, never thought about. But I, you know, the reason that I went to Ukraine, ultimately, I blamed Ward because I used to host a program on Ward, and it really, I was part of the public affair family, and it really got a taste for this kind of programming and this kind of conversation with people. And so when I had to start my own podcast because, you know, the situation changed, and I decided to talk about first Russia, then who knows what I started my channel. I called it "Rashkin Report." This is clearly something that I should have done. This was clearly an English language project because if you do this in Russian, you do not call your project "Rashkin Anything" because it's like an almost in insult, you know, like say that it's going to be something very pro-Russia and then very biased kind of way. So this was not intended as that at all. I was just like, I just love American politics. I'm well-collected official, and I love speaking Russian, and then I have a mass good communication degree, a master's degree, mass communication from UW Whitewater. So like all of these things where I also teach right now, let me to start this channel. And because of this, I became, how do I say, because of my channel where I talk in Russian about American politics, I started getting invited to different media places. And at this point, I am really, I don't feel I'm no longer welcomed in Russian language channels in Russia or in the United States. But in Ukraine, I am very much a welcomed presence, and basically I am there to explain and to tell about what's going on with American politics, because apparently nobody else really is doing it. And it's been really awesome because that's what I like to do, but I also feel like I am really the only liberal voice in Russian. Speaking to people in Russian, it's really kind of a strange situation. So I decided that I wanted to go and visit people that I've been working with, all these journalists that I got to know. So I kind of mapped out my plan. I flew into Warsaw and flew out of Warsaw, Poland, next door. And then I took a train. And on that train, I went from Warsaw to Aravarusta, where I had to switch trains and there was a passport control and I got into Ukraine, because it's amazing how far you can go with an American passport. It's just like, I feel like the greatest thing ever invented is American passport. It is so powerful, it opens up so many anyway. So I'm very lucky, very fortunate, and I appreciate the opportunity. So I got by train, then we switched into train on the other side of Ukraine. And reasonably shortly after that, we were in Lviv. And from Lviv, I went by train to Kiev, and those were the two major cities that I visited. I spent a few days in Kiev, then went back to Lviv, managed to do a little John to Ivan Afrankovsk. And then went back to Warsaw and flew back. And so by journalism standards, this was kind of a long trip. By vacation standards, it was a short trip, but it was definitely something that was a life-changing in a way, because I don't have friends there. I don't have business there, other than journalists that I talk to. So I said that I'm going for professional development. But it also turned out that I went for personal development. Because it really made me feel a lot of things that I haven't felt in a long time. A little bit, actually, when we had protests in Wisconsin, about what, 10, 15 years ago? I can, 2011. Yeah. That's 13 years now. A little bit of that, but on a much bigger scale. Oh, yeah. And it was really powerful, because, for instance, being in Kiev is so different from being in Lviv, because Kiev, they're under attacks all the time. Like, I could have been braver and went to Harkov, but I just didn't want to take that kind of a chance. I could have gone to Odessa, but I didn't have that kind of time. And so I went with what I could, and Kiev, it's amazing because it's capital, it's big city, and life is mostly normal during the day, but at night, one is most of the attacks that come at night, and it could be drones, could be rockets. And then there is air defense systems that are now from the United States that are covering the sky to a certain extent, although people were speaking how they have somewhere close to their house, this machine that shoots down drones and how loud it is in the middle of the night. Did you get to hear the sirens at night when you were staying in Kiev? Yes, and I heard them in Lviv, even, which is far out of real action, but it's interesting. People don't really respond to these anymore because it's simple reality. If you're going to run to, this is why Russia attacks in the middle of the night a lot, because it gets people out of bed, and what they're trying to do is to get people out of bed, get them to go to a bomb shelter, or not, or whatever, and then try to do a full day work if you do this couple of times during the night. Yeah, and think of the kids who have to go to school the next day, right? Absolutely, and I think that this is why what was really remarkable to me is to see to what extent people are just kind of going, like they're shrugging their shoulders. They're going, "Yeah, there's an attack. I have an app installed, so I'm going beep, beep." And people around me, I know, are getting the same notification, and they're just kind of going on with their day, because I mean, what are you going to do? Did they tell you in the hotel where you stayed? Did they tell you to sleep between two walls? Did you hear them? I did hear that, actually, in a place where I stayed in Lviv, did have two walls, which was not the best thing, because they didn't have air conditioner, and it was kind of warm, and I was behind two walls. But you know, you kind of figure, you know, pick your risks, and that's what I did. But life goes on, and people are very, like I was trying to figure out, "What do I tell people?" So I just said, "I'm going to say thank you." So I'm going to say, thank you for the sacrifice of Ukrainian people, and to show some support. And it turned out that it was really appreciated, because you're right, there's not many tourists, especially from the United States, there, right now. It's important for Ukrainians to know that they have not been forgotten, or that what's happening is not being presented as something that's not true. You know, 10 years ago, when Russia first started invading Ukraine, I heard a lot of misconceptions here in American Wisconsin about what's happening, and that Ukrainians somehow deserved it, or that Ukrainians were maybe politically, you know, not on the right side of history, and that's why they deserved to be invaded. But I feel like there is much more understanding of what's happening in real life now, and you're one of the people who is working on this on the information front of things, which I want to thank you for. What did you hear people in Ukraine say about the war? What was, like, was there an optimistic or a very pessimistic sense in the air and key, for example? I feel like there's two main stories that need to be told, and that is first of the suffering of the people, the civilians, the population, and the challenges that are kept, the challenges of trying to keep population when you have somebody who's just trying to terrorize everybody and get them to run away, because that's what Russia does, that they take over territory, then they replace the population, and they've done it for decades and decades, if not centuries and centuries. So that tragedy needs to be told because Ukraine is not some weird place that we can't connect to in any way that just like planet Mars. No, it's part of Europe, it's part of the planet in which we live and live for one is just an incredible city that was not, it's a European city that was not destroyed during World War II, but it was built as part of Austria-Hungarian Empire, and it's like a German city in the middle of Ukraine, like architecturally, it's a mix of different things, but it's survived and it's beautiful, and it needs to be preserved, and those things are treasures, and so, you know, they showed me in Lviv, there was only one building that was destroyed during World War II by the Nazi Germany, you know what that was, there was the synagogue, that was the only thing that they destroy everything else, and there was a one bomb dropped on that building and everybody knew, you know, and so outside of that the city remained and it needs to be preserved, but the other part of the story is the amazing heroism of Ukrainian fighters, because they really have a tradition which they also have to rescue in a way from Russian propaganda, because Russian propaganda when it took over Ukraine as a state, and when it fought with people who were trying to fight for Ukrainian independence, it obviously painted them as terrorists, as the worst people in the world, who can possibly be, because they're against Soviet Union, and so they, you know, they hate everybody, you want them, you know, so it really created this history where Ukrainians, in a way, are almost like apologizing for their past, which is not necessary because- their existence, even, you know, just a little aside that I've realized back 10 years ago that to many Russians, what allows them to say Ukrainians are Nazis is just the simple fact that Ukrainians speak a different language, or they speak two or three languages, and that makes them different from Russians, and as such, there must be Nazis. And that's the thing that Ukrainians are not Russians, is a thing that I think was number one that they wanted to convey to the rest of the world, is that Ukraine is absolutely a separate thing, and it's just different, and it is different, you know, I've been to Russia, I've been to Ukraine, there are different cultures, there's different values. Ukraine is much more tolerant in my experience, and, you know, like, it's got its own style, it's different, because I grew up in Moscow, which is, you know, like headquarters of Russian Empire, and so for me, this felt foreign, this felt different, how people were approaching things. Lviv, again, has a tradition, they have this weird thing about doorways, like, every doorway is different in some way, because all the buildings are unique, you know, that's not, you know, what is this? Everybody is unique, what kind of a- this is not Soviet approach. Yeah, you must all line up and wear the same clothes, and listen to that one guy tell you what to do, right? Right, and the Ukrainians don't like that, we like our one, you know, horizontal ties and democracy, and anarchy a little bit. Yeah, and it's a lot, you know, it's not only that there's a lot of fun there, but there's a really cool culture in there that I felt like being a tourist, I, on some level, was helping to unearth, like, the joy of Ukraine, like, there's the joy of culture, because people there feel almost a little embarrassed to, like, celebrate, because there's war, there's people fighting, there is so much help that is coming, they can't show that they're, like, trying to live, but they have to try to live, I mean, Kiev is a huge city that doesn't have lights on at night, but, you know, that was another interesting point, I noticed curfew, because there is a curfew now at, I think, midnight until 5 a.m., and that's the time where most of the military stuff moves around, and all the civilians are kind of laying low, and it turns out that actually from point of view of society, people kind of, like, they don't like it because, you know, yes, Ukrainians, chafe at authority and everything, but they're kind of, they don't mind it too much, because it turns it out everybody kind of have to be home at night, and there's less partying going on, and there's less drinking going on, and because of the war, there's less crime around, and people are like, there's a really strong feeling of community, especially in Kiev, that I felt because people are in the same problem, they have the all have the same problem called Putin and Russia, and it's, and they all have the same, like, it's pushing them together, and being part of that for just a few days, this is what I kind of take a took away a lot, is that just the strength of human spirit, which is incredible. What were your favorite sites to see in Kiev? And I'm biased because Kiev is my native city, my home, so I want to hear good thanks Yuri. All right, well, you know what, there's some really powerful viewing spots over the river, which are so high in in up above, that it's a little scary, you know, like, beautiful, but it's a little scary, and then there's like a bridge, I think of lovers or something, and that's just, you know, intimidating for me, I have kind of fear of heights a little bit, so I was like, is this tourist staying, or how is this supposed to go? But, you know, that was great. Kishyatik, like the main street of Kiev was very interesting to me to visit, because I heard so much about Putin wanting to have a parade there after three days, operation, which obviously failed. I was like, I want to see this place where he wanted to have his parade. It's a nice place, it's a beautiful place, and there's, like, at the beginning of it, where there's a, the column style, I think it's called, there's a flag planted for every life lost, and there's so many flags. So, you know, it's a powerful experience on many levels, which, you know, I find it so interesting that it really touched me emotionally myself, and that kind of surprised me. Did you meet any of your famous Ukrainians? Yes, let's talk about more fun stuff, you know, being a minor celebrity in Ukraine myself, and I feel like we're speaking, but I, this is wonderful, but I would love to hear some phone calls, because maybe nobody, maybe somebody has a question that I can possibly answer. And our number, of course, is 608-256-2001. My name is Yuri Raskin, and Natasha Akulianke is with me, and I'm with you, and we're speaking about Ukraine, and a short trip that I just came back from there in my family, of course, they were most pleased that I came back, because as far as, you know, I think people in America were concerned when I was in Ukraine, I must have seemed like Indiana Jones at the temple, inside the temple of doom right now, and here I am, like in Lviv, buying cup of coffee, and some, you know, baked goods for a couple of bucks and enjoying life, you know, but it's, that must be fine. But I've been very fortunate because of being this minor celebrity, and having been, actually, people sometimes recognize me on the street, and I was curious to see who would be the people that would recognize me, they all seemed all very nice. I was particularly pleased that when I went to Lviv in Vernesage, which is like marketplace, where you have people selling goods, a lot of patriotic stuff, and just antiques, and art, all that kind of stuff, there were several people who would recognize me, said that they were viewers of my channel, so they told me that they were interested in, you know, world, and one of them mentioned that he read between five and ten thousand books, and, you know, he just like really, you know, he told me that he felt, you know, it was his, just, it was nice to talk to people without going to too many details, and, you know, they were not, those were not particularly famous people, but that was really, just really cool experiences to go, oh, you, you watch my podcast, or my vlog, that thank you. On the other hand, I've been fortunate to work with some really great people who, like, nobody is shy about approaching them on the street, because they're such big stars that people just run up to them and go, thank you, and I go, oh, I thought you were polite, and that's why you were not approaching me, I'm just a nobody in comparison with, you know, Vitali Portnica for Amansib Baluk. Just give it 20 or 30 years, and then you'll be a household name everywhere in Ukraine. Just keep working on it. Right, and I can't say that that's a goal, because here I live in Wisconsin, and, you know, enjoying my life here as well, but it's, it's really great to have really awesome. I feel like friends, to some extent, because I went to visit, and, and even though we just do streams, and we just do, you know, broadcast, we spend a lot of really fun time together talking about things, and I just try to understand a little bit better about what this, you know, there's a, for instance, Vitali Portnica. He is, like, number one journalist, probably thinker, like, you know, person who is really important in framing what it is, that's Ukrainian identity, because that is being forged right now through this war. So many identities have been forged through conflict, and through with standing against, standing up against Russia. And that's one of the big topics that he talks about, and as a journalist who interviewed everybody from, like, Yeltsin on, and he has been in Moscow for many years, but always been a Ukrainian journalist, and thinker, and not, and right now, is the most respected person, I feel like, in public space in Ukraine. It's, it's a treat to be around him, and to be a witness to history, and as we're traveling by train from Ivanov's back to Lviv, we're sitting next to an opera singer who is practicing for an audition, and, and he says, Oh, I know the director of the opera theater, let me connect you with him, and he's just being so kind, and really just helping people left and right. And that's really, and he was not the only one. The other celebrity journalist that I hung out with, a friend of mine, Raman Simbaluk, also extremely helpful and trying to, like, just be useful and giving back. It's, it's a really, you know, so I enjoyed those experiences with Raman. We even had this whole thing where he took me across the border, because I needed to get in the end back from Lviv to Warsaw, and how do you do that? And the tickets were for train were scarce, and it was going to be an adventure. And then Raman Simbaluk called me and said, you know, I have to be in, in Warsaw to speak at a festival for Ukraine, because they raised money for drones. And so I'm going there slank you. So that's what I'm, so you want to ride with me? Like, yes. Okay, I want to ride with you. So, and we said, you know, we're sitting at this border crossing for like four to six hours, and I'm just not even complaining at work, because I'm sitting with, you know, with this great guy, then we're just having a great time chatting about things, and getting to know each other better. First things first, we got offered to pay a bribe, so we would be allowed to move up in the lane. And Raman was like, no, we're not going to engage in corruption. We're going to stay, take a stance. I was like, that's right. And so we took a stance against corruption, and we proudly sat in that line even longer than we could have, because we just were not willing to pay that little extra few dollars, and that was fine. And then we had a person came up to our door, and she was, you know, you're just sitting at this, you know, on the highway, but it's parked, and you're just sitting and waiting for, you know, Polish guards to let you in. And it's hot, and it's summer, August, and a lady came up to us with children, like, knocking on the window. I'm like, I don't know what, you know, what she's going to be discussing, what, you know, I'm a foreigner here. I'm from America, and Raman handles the situation, and we also had with us another lady who was going to the festival. So there's three of us, and we're sitting there, and this lady appearing, and all of a sudden our lady that was riding with us gets out of her car and walks off with this woman and her children. I was like, Raman, what's going on? Because I understand Ukrainian pretty well. It's a different language. It's not Russian. Like, I spoke to everybody in Russia, and they spoke to me in Ukrainian. We mostly understood everybody, each other, but it's better for me if we talk about American politics, because then I have a lot more points of reference than I can just kind of figure out. And this was a situation where I was just like, Raman, what happened? And apparently, this lady got to the border in her car with kids, and then she forgot her driver's license. She got her passport, but she could not legally drive her own car. And so she was going around looking for somebody who would help her drive her own car across the border. And then she would, I guess, have to figure it out, because she was somebody who was going to meet her there. And so our third person walked off and helped them drive across. So we're sitting just the two of us going, well, this is interesting. And then another lady walks down the street, like a fairy tale or something. And she's got a cat in a crate. And she knocks on our window, and she says, you know, they kicked me out of a bus, because I was on a bus. This was another option that I was that I was considering. And because they said the drivers of the bus said that you have a cat, this is going to be a problem. Just get out now. I'll just wait for you on the other side of the border. You cross somehow yourself. Was it the black cat? Was it the black cat? I know I think it was right. No, no particular luck or dislike there. No, yeah, just the cat. And even though that cat could across if it was a black cat, who knows? Anyway. And Raman looked at this lady and said, you know, my, I don't have a cat, but if my children found out that I let a woman with a cat, like, suffer, they would not, they would say, Dad, that's not right. And so I get in. And so now we have this lady with us and her cat. And the cat's name is Anfisa. And Anfisa is sitting there like quieter than a mouse. It just really just didn't make a sound. We were so so impressed, because I've transported cats. Those are not always the quietest experiences you're going to have. You know, and this was Anfisa was super quiet. She understood the situation was very serious. The only time that she like had to get out is when we were at the border and the Polish border guards were like, what's inside the crate and like, clap, they have that we try to shake the crate and the crate and Anfisa kind of came out and when nothing else fell out and the cat was not, you know, they just said, okay, that's fine. But so we crossed the border and we stopped the rest area and everybody kind of switched back. We got our third person back and we drove off. But it was an interesting experience. And there's certainly dynamics where it's easier to get into Ukraine and Polish guards tend to search people a little closer. But I made it through with all my souvenirs intact. Good. And that was a wartime cat. So she knew how to behave and be helpful. You know, that's a good explanation. I think everybody in that country, I felt like really it's just a little bit older. And it's just a little bit there. War does something to society that I hope we never get to find out. But it is it's a, you know, because I've met a lot of Ukrainians in the especially in the last two and a half years that do not live in Ukraine for obvious reasons. And my, you know, I try to help them with resettle. I'm an interpreter. So there's plenty of opportunities to communicate. But it was really interesting to me to see people on the inside who are fighting, who are putting up, who are like doing things. And the question that I think Americans were mostly asking me is, do you think Ukraine is going to do it? Because Ukrainians want to keep asking me is like, is America going to keep helping us? And so I just keep answering the same two questions going back and forth with various, you know, like depending on what the news today is information. But I had a couple of experiences that I think really made me feel like it was just like that Ukraine is going to be fine. And part of it was that where I was staying, I was staying with people in Boucher. Boucher is a now horrifically known place for the cruelty that Russian troops displayed there. And then they were pushed back. And so the cruelty was discovered. Because in other places, when they were not pushed back, we don't even know yet. And so it just continued there across absolutely. And so in Boucher, they were pushed back. And so I got a tour. And it was really just the destruction. Like there were just every house has a fence. And every fence is covered with bullet holes, still, because like you have to replace everything, because they were just driving around, shooting at people, just shooting whoever they could, because they were terrorizing population. They were not trying to peacefully come in and do anything they were doing what they were doing. And still, there's people who gather, and this is like, I went to a gathering in the mornings. These ladies for the most part, no, I'm sorry, all ladies, there was one child there, Marina, who was like nine years old. And the rest of them were middle-aged and older ladies who were getting together every morning to make masking nets for troops. And it's, you know, and they get together for several hours, because it's really more stressful to sit at home and to do nothing. And so they do something that they feel is for victory, that's bringing that victory a little closer. And then they have a connection with troops that they're making this for some specific troop that is letting them know how things are going. And so they have a connection. And it just really felt so powerful and how people are interconnected that I was like, Ukraine's going to be fine. Like that experience, you know, and then on the other hand, I went to probably my favorite souvenir shop in Ukraine with a bar, because Lviv has another tradition of you got to have like every, they love coffee, they love coffee bars and just really themed restaurants. And went to a place called Krievka, which celebrates like, again, the revolutionary past of Ukraine. And it's like an underground dugout that's turned into like a family restaurant themed thing with souvenirs and really crazy, you know, it's great. It's like a reminding me actually a little bit of the spy restaurant in Milwaukee, where, you know, whatever that it's actually called, the one I heard anybody's feelings, but you have to have like a password when you get in. In Lviv, it's, you know, Slavo Krievka, you know, Slavo, but then you have to take a shot. Like, oh, wow, you're an adult. Right. And then they let you in. And I thought, wow, you know, it's so nice to, it's on one hand, it's really nice to celebrate your glorious past. On the other hand, what a treat, how important it is to have allies, because Ukraine without allies was an underground rebellion uprising. And Ukraine with allies is, you know, a country that can withstand Russia. Yeah, when you said, I think Ukraine will be fine, I agree, because we have the fighting spirit, we have all the love for freedom and independence, 100%. But without the means to achieve the goals, we will not survive, just plain and simple. It's a matter of survival of a culture. And so that's why it's so important for the politicians in other countries to agree, you know, like Yuri, you said before that you hope Americans here in Wisconsin will never know the hardships that Ukrainians are going through right now. And in order to prevent that from happening, everybody needs to help Ukraine stop that thing there, where there is now, you know, and keep helping and maybe expedite the assistance that's needed. Absolutely. I think that for better or for worse, Ukrainians are convinced that United States agreed to protect them against Russia when Ukraine surrendered their nuclear weapons. And this is Budapest memorandum. And I from, you know, I am not an attorney, but it seems like a really kind of a flawed limited document. And I don't know who signed, I mean, I can look up who signed it. I think Bill Clinton already said he regrets it. Russia was one of the signatories, which is right. Right. If that tells you anything. Yeah. So I think that it's an important part of what we're dealing with is making sure that Ukraine wins, because I think there's a it's an interesting question of how much we're concerned about the nuclear attack from Russia, because I really didn't get the feeling like Ukrainians were concerned about it. Like they're like either they're in the middle of the war, and so nothing else matters. Or they really know how Russians operate and they see and we all see what Russia is doing. Their stuff is all rusted through and probably the nuclear button has fallen out of the right. On the other hand, there's lots of people out there that are spreading information that United States could could if only we wanted to help Ukraine so much more, because we have fields, fields of planes, tanks and automobiles and train, whatever, everything that Ukraine desperately needs. But we are not doing or like if we would only allow volunteers to fly F 16. Like no, no, I don't think that's going to work. I don't think that's going to happen. But there has to be somewhere like we really have to understand that this is so in our like Russian aggression is really terrible. Like we would not be able to withstand to the level that Ukraine actually does in a sense, because I feel like they're building as if they're going to be invented in invaded. Like Ukrainian houses, I was looking at those things. They're like big cement bricks, you know, each door is like, I don't know, like, I don't know what they're built again, like they're preparing for and we are building out of paper. They were they made this joke to me like, you know, about through the wolf and three little pigs, because Americans, you build like those pigs out of, you know, hey, and you know, we build out a big. You can answer the third pig. Okay, good. Like, right, right. So we've lived next to we've lived next to a very war, war mongering empire for too long, you know, for centuries upon centuries, this has been happening. So, you know, and we in America really feel like we're, we're very lucky. But that doesn't mean that we're don't live on the same planet as everybody else. You know, we don't like our Canada is probably not going to invade us. And I think whatever's going on at our southern border is, you know, not going to be the same as Russian invasion. No, people looking for jobs is certainly not the same as people looking to exterminate a whole culture. Thank you for putting it so precisely. Yeah, so it's a it was a really fascinating trip that way. And some parts of it, I was surprised how well people responded to because like, I like to go and find a piano and play piano anywhere I can find because I think like those pianos should be played. I feel like there should be a piano in every house. But until then, at least, you know, in every town. So I found a piano in Kiev. I found piano in Lviv. And I just, you know, because I feel like there's, I speak English, Russian and music. And so be able to communicate with people a little bit and to play some American songs, but also learn some of the Ukrainian songs. And just to show that interconnection, I felt was important. Another bit that I think surprised people is I traveled by train. And trains were clean. They were fine. They were like, it was hard to find tickets sometimes. But if you keep checking the app, because everything's digital, like I paid with Apple Pay everywhere. It's it's very, you know, 21st century on that level. Ukraine is one of more digitalized countries in Europe, for sure. Probably not at the level of Japan or Korea, but definitely very far ahead of many European countries. So it's convenient, right? Yeah, it was convenient and it was clean and it was inexpensive. And if it wouldn't be the terrorist country next door, life would be great. You know, what I thought about in Kiev, looking at people who were saying good night, as they were parting ways. And with this understanding that nighttime can be the danger time is the danger time, because you go to sleep and you don't wake up when the alarm rings. And because you decide you need to sleep and then you don't wake up. And then those that wake up in the morning, life is great. It's a sunny morning. Go look, the rocket hit. Okay, but life goes on. And that evening parting, it made me think of the purges that Stalin undertook in 1930s, because it felt like people in Soviet Union were trying to live some kind of a human life existence during the day with the understanding that at night is when the, you know, the secret police came to take them away. And we know this for a fact, because it was standard or not standard. But there were enough cases, people knew about, you know, whatever, people were just packing a suitcase that they, you know, some famous component, I think Shostakovich maybe lived with a suitcase by the door because if some, if he got picked up at night, he just wanted to grab it and go. So that kind of have a good night. I thought, I wonder how people in 1937 in Russia, in Soviet Union, including Kiev with, you know, where they had, you know, Galadamor and all the, you know, all the sufferings that people went through. They still, those that woke up in the morning, hey, it's a sunny morning, life is good. And then I hope you have a good night. And you know, sadly, I, as far as I know in Russia, things are much the same as they were 100 years ago, because pretty much the same people are still in power. And those people do not mind using methods of intimidation and genocide that they used 100 years ago. And on the same kind of people, it's not just Ukrainians. It's anyone, including ethnic minorities in Russia. So something to remember, you know, the context of this whole thing. But it's not really about Ukraine giving a territory. So it's about Russia wanting to become big empire once again. That is a good point as well, Natasha, because I was asked, you know, and I was asking if Ukrainians felt like maybe it was time to sit at negotiation table, huh? Huh? What do you think? And or you don't like it either? Come on. I mean, you know, jokes aside. And people were like, well, why don't you give up Alaska? Why don't you know, why are you so like hung up on that? You know, just, you know, you, you bought it from Russia, Putin will probably will ask for it back. Are you going to be like, sure, or are you going to fight for it? And so they just, you know, I really felt like, unlike some situations, Ukrainians feel a sense of ownership over their land and all the people that have died only increase that feeling of ownership. And they're not giving up. They're not surrendering. This is a little bit confusing to me because Putin attacked Ukraine by taking out their energy supplies. So people like in Lviv, even in Kiev, regularly, there's power outages throughout the day. And there's a minute or so when it's just silence, then it goes like, Oh, everything stops. And then the generators come on because everybody's got a generator, because you know, you're dealing with Russia. So there's, in the as Raman said, it's a sound of freedom. You know, those generators, they're just working there and they're doing the necessary work. But it's, but yeah, it's, it's an adventure. But see what we are operating in is what makes it difficult for us, I feel, to understand what's going on in that part of the world and particularly in Russia is because we live in a different system of coordinates, because we are really trying to do the right thing. Like even when people are failing, there's the goal is to do the to do the right thing. And they in Russia, former Soviet Union, Russian speakers as a rule, live in the world of strength. Either you are strong, and then you can do whatever you want, or you're weak, and then you cannot do anything. And at best, if you're weak, you could be wicked, because being wicked is kind of like a little extra help to deal with the big, you know, big strong. So it's a really different system of coordinates, which makes, I think, is disorienting for everybody. Because the Western governments keep thinking that they can have negotiations with Putin and his government, which is not quite possible because they like, just like you said, they don't operate under the same rules. Morals, you know, ethics mean nothing to them. It's strength, and it's cheating. It is because they consider cheating to be part of winning, winning a strength. And ethics is more of a like hypocrisy that weak people cover up, you know, it's that kind of like, what are you talking about? But it's a very specific way of looking at things. I will, let's see, what else have I done while I was in Ukraine? I went to TV stations. Oh, yeah. Then that was interesting, because I told everybody I said, I'm not going to do over the internet interviews, I want to go in person and see all. And so a couple of stations agreed, and I was on the air on one of them TV key is located in like a hard residential neighborhood. You wouldn't know that there's a TV station there, and they keep it that way. But another one, a primoi canal is on 24th floor of a skyscraper in the middle of Kiev. And I was like, okay, how is this going to? Like, I went up there, like, these are great views. Are you a little nervous about being here? Yeah. And the journalist like, yeah, we had there was a shooting and we saw that rocket of like nearly flew by. So yeah, but at the same time, that's your job place, I guess. And then if you're going to stay there, then you're going to come back. And with the understanding, I mean, everybody has this calculation that it would make no sense for Putin to shoot rocket at wherever they are. You know, but I think that many people on a 24th floor in a glass skyscraper are taking a certain amount of risk. Yeah, they, you know, Putin is too busy or his general shooting rockets at orphanages and children's hospitals. Precisely. And there was a retirement home hit last night in Sumi. So, you know, I wanted to say, Yuri, that I'm really happy that you put Wisconsin on the mental map of the US in Ukraine, because I don't think anyone has ever really heard much about Wisconsin. So when people used to ask me, where do you live in America? I would say New York, Chicago, because people know New York, Chicago, and then California. But now Wisconsin is quite famous because of Mr. Rushkin here. You know, thank you. I'm glad to hear that because I love that. But to be precise, I'm really out there promoting Rock County. You know, so let's be specific. Rock County is in County, not with standing. Yeah, that's true. But I do believe that Wisconsin is the center of the world. So, you know, every and you can see because I believe there's going to be a big rally here soon. So, Wisconsin definitely matters. And then, you know, I did another interview on when I got to Lviv. And that was my first interview that I did in English. They have changed their laws in Ukraine. And as of mid-summer, I am no longer allowed on Ukrainian TV. It's not like they changed the law against me. But they're gradually moving away from Russian language being heard in the media sphere, which is totally fine and understandable. And when I was there, I was asking people, I said, would you like me to speak Russian or English? I can do either. You decide. In Kiev, most people chose Russian in Lviv. Some people chose English. But this interview, I literally, like the hosts, we were sitting in the same room, obviously, and they would speak to me in Ukrainian. I would answer in English. And there was an interpreter that was feeding them the interpretation in their ear. But, you know, so we got through this and it was really fun. But I feel like the irony of all of this is that I am, you know, I have this really good Russian language. I have this great radio voice, I'm aware. But I think it's really important for Ukraine to move away from Russian and to move towards English. And Ukrainian, obviously, but Ukraine, like the future, like Russians in Russia right now in schools, I'm hearing a more and more learning Chinese, because that's where they're headed. So they need to know Chinese. That makes sense for them. But I think Ukraine needs to really focus on learning English because I feel like in this competitive world, it's really is important to speak the language. And so when I was interviewed in English, I just felt like I'm trying to do my little bit to push the country a little bit towards that understanding. Fantastic. And I think a lot more people speak English now in Ukraine than they used to 20 years ago. So we're getting there. You know, I've seen a lot of your interviews with Ukrainian TV and YouTube channels. And I always wondered, how will do you understand when they ask you questions in Ukrainian? Do you have any trouble? Do you sometimes have to guess what it is they said or? Yes. Yes. See, the thing is, is that I thought that every Russian speaker kind of had some kind of a feeling for Ukrainian because it kind of sounds similar. There's, I feel like if I just like squint, I will understand it better. And you know, it's so close, but it's not, it's different language. It's got different roots for words that mean different things that they're just like, what? That was the root. I thought it was something different because it sounds similar to Russian but it has a different meaning. And the reality is, is that to give better answer, I usually will request to know what the topics are going to be for conversation, especially if they want to discuss some new story that I better read first before they ask me about it. Otherwise, what are they winning? You know, I'm not running for a position where they're like, I got you, like, "Rashkin, you didn't know what's going on. Like, how does that help anybody?" So I figured that that gives me a little bit of a leg up. But then if they ask a clarifying question, well, I'm just like out there fishing and I hope that my answer kind of covers everything including their question. So as Ukrainians are slowly learning English, rashkin is slowly learning Ukrainian. Absolutely. It's just a question of, you know, Ukrainians have a such hard time with my last name. I almost have to like, you know, it's either rashkin is so harsh, so maybe it has to be like either anti-rashkin or ukrashkin or anierikashkin. I'm not sure. But there's, you know, but it's a, that's the thing that fascinates me so much is the cultural differences. And to what extent we kind of crossover and to what extent we're very different. And I think it just makes this whole experience so much richer. But I really feel like we just need to take last few minutes and, you know, really circle back to what you already said once. And that is that Ukraine deserves our help and that Ukraine's help is in our best interests. Like, sometimes one of the things, this is going to be big controversy. Like, I'm just going to break this on the air on WRT, 89.9 FM, Ukrainians don't like their leaders. Like, this is just like a national tradition. They just don't care for them at all. None of them. Like, oh, we have a caller. Okay. And we will continue with this. All right. This is an exciting topic. Yes. Listen, they wonders if this was going to be the death of Russian culture globally. It's an interesting question because on one hand, Russians live in this world that they have the greatest, most powerful culture. And if you don't believe it, just look at ballet. And that's like, it's a statement. And they're certainly good ballet. And, you know, my mother worked in ballet, you know, her career. So I have a lot of respect for ballet dancers. And it's a wonderful art. But there's so much more to art than books written in 19th century or ballet that was choreographed. That was, you know, especially, I remember watching the Sochi Olympics, I think closing ceremony, where they featured all these Russian culture stars. And they were like all murdered by the regime. Like, like, that's, that's how it is. But so I think what is really wonderful, and I'm seeing this as an interpreter, is that we're seeing a lot more demand and interest in other languages besides Russian, where there's a lot more interest in other cultures of all those places that make up Russian empire. We need to look at those people and learn their languages and their culture and help them feel better about the importance of their culture, because they've been told their culture is not good. And like, it's just not really in very many ways. So there's like a lot of self-esteem that needs to be done that we can do by just showing interest in it, which we should. So it all kind of connects. Just to add to that a little bit, Ukraine is not a monoculture. We have Tatars, we have Germans, we have all kinds of people who are not Ukrainian by ethnicity. And yet we are a vibrant culture of people who don't like this war and needed to end. And survival of all these cultures and languages and schools and books has at stake here. Yeah. But at the same time, I'm sure that Russian culture will survive because you know... There's just a million of them. They're fine. Right. They're going to be just fine. All right. And you know, I think the question of identity is important because apparently you can be of any nationality and you can still be Ukrainian. And that is a discovery that I think Americans have made. That you can be from anywhere. You can be an American. And right now, Ukrainians are making the same discovery and they're loving it. So I think this is really just an important time that we're living in and to be witnesses to it. I think it's really cool. And so Natasha, I want to thank you for accompanying me for asking and really providing such great perspective. Thank you, Natasha, Krelianka. This was so fun. It's nice to talk to you and to the good people of WRT today. Absolutely. And I want to thank Jack Kuzma, who was our engineer. And I want to thank Mary Lou, who was taking the call. So Mary Lou Riki. And I want to thank everyone who tuned in. If you want me to talk to your group, I'm glad to do it. But otherwise, you know, my channel is really close to 100,000 subscribers. We'll see how that silver button does because you know, yeah, being a progressive voice in Russian language is a lonely place. It's a very, very rare thing. And I thank you for representing us over there. Thank you so much. You're listening to WRT 89.9 FM. Thanks, everyone. [Music]