WORT 89.9FM Madison
09.18.24 Queery Abby Swetz VK
(upbeat music) - Hi friends, welcome to Quirry. It's time for Madison's longest running radio show dedicated to LGBTQ issues. I'm your host, Vicki Kenyon. I use she/her pronouns. I have a little request before we get too far. I wanna say thanks to listeners for your incredible generosity and support during the community radio experiment that is W-O-R-T in our fall pledge drive. We're so grateful for each and every donor that honored us with a donation. Perhaps the weather was really nice or everyone was at the Badger game. But for whatever reason, we felt a little shy of our goal. The good news is that a group of donors have agreed to give us matching funds for donations made today through Monday, September 22nd. Our phone answers have completed their shifts, but you can still donate online at W-O-R-T-F-M.org/donate. All thank you gifts are still available and your donation will be doubled. Any donation, no matter how large, is greatly appreciated. Tonight, my guest is the fabulous Abby Sweats, Executive Director of Fair Wisconsin. In July, Fair Wisconsin announced after a nationwide search that Abby was selected to be the group's Executive Director. She was awarded the G-Safe Educator of the Year Award in 2017 and the Rockwell Cooperating Teacher Award from the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Sure, prior to that, in her most recent role, actually, she was the Communications Director at the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction. Abby attended the La Follette School of Public Affairs, where she earned the Peniman Prize for her policy and analysis. And then after La Follette, she went on to work with the Secretary's Office of the Department of Health and Human Services in the height of the pandemic. Hi, Abby. Hi. Hello. Thank you so much for having me on. Let's just start with a little bit about Fair Wisconsin. So I know Fair Wisconsin started in 1994. Can you give us a little history of the group and tell us how you landed here? Absolutely. So Fair Wisconsin is Wisconsin's only statewide LGBTQ+ civil rights as political advocacy organization. Our mission is really about creating a safe, inclusive society where LGBTQ+ people are treated with dignity and respect and really can thrive in our society. We go beyond survival, of course, is our true vision. And we do a lot of work to advance and protect LGBTQ civil rights through things like lobbying, legislative advocacy. We do grassroots organizing. We do coalition building specifically around electoral involvement. A lot right now of education to voters about their rights and our issues and what is really impacting our community and where to look for more information about who to vote for. And we are, yeah, we're 30 this year, which is pretty incredible. A group of people came together three decades ago to form this organization. Quite a few amazing community activists who are actually still on our board. Tammy Baldwin was a part of helping our organizations be founded. So we have a pretty rich history and I'm absolutely honored to be entrusted with this organization's future considering its history. In terms of how I ended up here, I didn't hear your intro, so it may be an early spoke to that. I will say that I, at heart, am always going to be a middle school teacher. You can't rip it away from me because I placed such a high standard on the sense of belonging that people felt in my classroom. And I wanted very badly to bring that sense of belonging beyond the walls of room 102. So I left teaching and people are always confused when they hear that I left because I loved it so much. But I left because I was tired of old white legislators making decisions about my classroom, having never stepped foot in a public school classroom. And frustrated by the fact that I knew I was creating this safe space for my kids and then letting them out into the great big world where they wanted to make change, but they were not yet safe. And so it was really that kick in the pants that got me interested in more political advocacy and more policy work that landed me here at Fair Wisconsin. - It seems like the perfect place for you to be right now. - It sure, it sure fit in pretty well so far. I'm only eight weeks in, don't-- - Okay, sorry. Yeah, we see great things ahead. So here's a little stat for you. In 1982, Wisconsin made history by being the first state to ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, right? This historic legislation has been protecting lesbian, gay, bisexual Wisconsinites from discrimination in their workplace in housing and public accommodations for over 40 years. The state law does not provide protections against discrimination based on gender identity or expression here in Madison. We do have that protection, but this is such an important part of being here in Wisconsin. Can you talk a little about the work that Fair Wisconsin does to make sure this kind of legislation stays in place? - Absolutely, I would love to talk about that. Fun fact since you just shared that fun fact, that law in 1982 was signed in by a Republican governor. - Right. - Which I just would like to point out is a possibility to those listening. The thing that is really important about what you just said is that you're right. Madison does have these kinds of protections, but they're not across statewide for gender identity and gender expression. And I very strongly believe that we need to stop living in pockets. This is a situation that we, there are queer people everywhere. We are everywhere and we need to be protected everywhere. We need to be celebrated everywhere. We should be able to thrive no matter what community we live in Wisconsin. And so it's really, really important to us at Fair Wisconsin that we get gender identity and gender expression added into the non-discrimination statutes in Wisconsin law. We have been introducing that edition for many, many, many times in session. And it has never come to fruition. And it is my servant hope that with new fair maps drawn and potentially some new legislators in those seats that will actually get it done. I think it's really important though that we always try, right? I think sometimes it's easy in, easy is not the right word. It is appealing to because the work is so hard when you know you're not going to succeed to take a step back and not do the work. And in this movement, we're in a moment where it could really go either way and it is incredibly important that we keep doing the work and land the groundwork. So if that legislature is not amenable to us passing this new edition, very needed edition in our non-discrimination laws this time around, well then we're going to lay that groundwork so that it happens next time and next time. And we keep building. And so that's really important when we think about our legislative priorities. - Yeah, and to just expand on something you said that's really important. I think there's a lot of energy around the presidential race and there's definitely some excitement about the changes in the race. But even more important maybe are the state level races and paying attention to the very local politics and how that determines the future of Wisconsin, yeah? - That is so real. I've been talking long before the changes happen at the top of the ticket. I've been talking to other state leaders of other equality groups like Fair Wisconsin but in other states. And we've been talking about how in Wisconsin we had this unique experience that we were actually seeing sort of like a reverse coattails momentum because people are excited about their more local assembly and state Senate races than they've been before because they are actually competitive. People are actually buttoning it all of them or except one, I think, which is incredible. And they're real races, right? Like this is the situation where every vote really matters and getting out that vote is so key. And so now that there's also excitement at the top of the ticket with the recent changes, I really do feel like there's sort of a groundswell in our state where some change could really, really take place. And I do think it's important that we keep in mind. And the example at the top of the state law versus also the Madison pocket is so perfect. These state races are so important because when it comes down to the legislation that impacts your and my daily life, it is state that impacts our daily life the most. And I, for one, am tired of having to move around in different pockets of what part of what municipality will be able to protect me and what won't, I want this entire state to be protected. I'm tired of our kids living by the whims of what school district and school board they go to. I'm tired of court cases getting to determine things. I think it's really important that we start getting some of this more into law. And if it can't be in state statute, at the very least, we will organize so that we will be ready to get some good policy in place at those municipal levels as well. - Yeah, that's excellent. So what other kind of goals does Fair, Wisconsin have for the balance of this year and as you get headed into 2025? - Well, at the moment, we're really focusing a lot on involvement in the upcoming election because it really determines what our 2025 is gonna look like. It also, it lays the groundwork for the fact that 2025 is also an election year. Let's not forget that. So we've got the very important spring elections in 2025 for a state supreme court and state supreme tenant. In terms of statewide races, then of course there are non-partisan races that are more localized as well. So getting this electoral work off the ground right now in this mobilization effort is going to also continue that work. It's gonna make it easier to continue that work beyond November into spring. In terms of that electoral work we're doing, we've got a lot of get out the vote activities going on. We're trying to do some voter education about the issues that we're hearing on the ground as being very important to our community. We've been out at as many prides and seemingly possible across our state. It's sort of great that Wisconsin has the odd experience of having prides so far beyond June 'cause it means we get to get to more of them. - Right. - We can't be everywhere in June. So for example, New Pride Alive up here in Green Bay where I live is this weekend and I will be there and we will be collecting pledge to vote cards. - Awesome. We talk into voters as we do it. And I think that personal touch of us trying to be in person as many prides as possible and then also it obviously as other events as well. Like we have a banned book event coming up next week up here. We're really hearing a lot of important information coming from our people who are filling out the pledge to vote cards. And when I talk about it to people, sometimes they're surprised and sometimes they're not. But yes, we are hearing from our LGBTQ+ community concerns about specific legislation to our community. So the need to beat back bad bills in the upcoming session if there are some, which I would infer that that will happen. Even if things change a lot in the legislature, there will always still be bad things. And also specific proactive legislation like we just talked about. But we're also hearing a lot on the ground about issues that disproportionately impact us but are not necessarily about us. So we're hearing about, of course, reproductive rights are an LGBTQ+ issue. Immigration is an LGBTQ+ issue, racial justice, right? Like these are all issues, healthcare, gun law reform that we need to be a part of as well. And our queer voice matters in that space. And so we're hearing that a lot from voters. And it's one of the reasons why as executive director is this organization, I'm looking forward to building more coalitions with other organizations that work more specifically on those issues so that we can really add our weight behind that advocacy as well. - It's so important to be paying attention to everything, right? It's a giant gap of trust. - And it can be, I get that it can be exhausting for sure. So I don't think it's necessarily a job that everyone needs to keep track of everything all the time. But it is also why it's so important to build those coalitions, right? In terms of conversations with people where you meet them where they're at in terms of issues that other people are passionate about that you might also share. - Yeah, and it's also the reason why organizations like Fair, Wisconsin and G-Safe exist so that we all don't have to read every minutia of every bill that's going on and you can help direct us on what we should be paying attention to. - We are here for you in that space for sure. - So kind of a good segue here. On August 1st, the Biden administration's final rule overhauling the Title IX took effect. And so Title IX is a 1972 law that's the cornerstone and safeguarding students from sex-based discrimination across all education levels in schools that receive federal funding. So Tyrone Creech Jr. was here with me two weeks ago, the executive director of G-Safe. And I actually asked him what he thought was going to happen as a result of this ruling. And he said, "Little hard to predict what's going to happen." And then I see this week, this past week that Fair, Wisconsin and G-Safe have filed a federal complaint against the Kettle Marine School District for fostering a hostile environment by violating the new Title IX regulations. Can you tell us a little bit about what's going on and why we're seeing a federal complaint get filed? - Absolutely. So that was a really good explanation of the fact that Title IX has sort of gone through a reboot, I would say. But what really happened on August 1st is that the rule went into effect, that the regulations clarified that sex discrimination includes discrimination based on gender identity and gender expression and sexual orientation. Wisconsin already has a non-discrimination law, in terms of pupil non-discrimination for sexual orientation, gender identity is not in our law yet in Wisconsin. So this is really important for Wisconsin students because Title IX is now clearly including gender identity and gender expression. The thing that's complicated, which is why someone was right to say the what he did in terms of trying to figure out what it meant, is there is currently a lawsuit that has enjoined certain states and certain schools that sort of like make them a little bit exempt from the new regulations. Not, they could do the right thing as they want to do, don't get me wrong, but they're sort of exempt from being investigated for doing the wrong thing because there is a lawsuit through the district court in Kansas where every, any member of monster liberty or young Americans who have children in a school can file to say that their school should be under this enjoyment. The thing that's complicated about that is that it is a certain single school that we're talking about, not an entire district. It's also a very complicated legal argument where a lot of people who know way more about law than me find it very odd to say the least. And the fact that certain schools are enjoined does not give people a free pass to be hateful and transphobic and hostile. Because you shouldn't do that anyway into your moral obligations as a leader in a school district. And also because the district itself is different than a school and they received distinct federal funding. So there is still a mechanism here that we should be able to file a federal complaint to the officer's civil rights. So what GSA Center in Wisconsin did is that we learned of hostile environments being created at the school board meetings by school board members of the Kedomarian school district. And in those meetings, which are publicly available online, which I've watched far too many times this point, there are multiple school board members, say very, very caustic anti-trans remarks. They hear from public comments, some families who are concerned about their own children and the safety of their own trans children. You hear at 1.1 parents say that for their own health and safety, they've told their child not to come to school board meetings anymore. And so that is creation of a hospital environment by the action statements officially made during a school board meeting, I would contend. And the fact that no action was taken when very obvious violations of Title IX were brought up in public comment was also a problem. So GSA, Sarah Wisconsin and GLSEN, National Organization devoted to K12 LGBTQ+ school issues have worked together to file a federal complaint alleging hostile environment created and fostered by the school board at the Kedomarian school district. There are certain schools in Kedomarian that are under this weird and joined situation, but not all of them. And again, the district is a separate entity. There are no district is joined, only certain schools. So it's really, it's a little complicated, but it's still super important to show our trans and non-binary kids and their families that we've got there back. And so we filed that federal complaint and we also did a public press release about it. And that was a twofold intention, again, to make sure that the students in Kedomarian are feeling supported and to let the rest of the school boards in Wisconsin know that we are watching and to ask the rest of Wisconsin to help us watch. So in our press release and in quite a few of the news reports that have followed, we've talked about the fact that we have created an email that you can email if you would like to tell us of anti-trans actions being taken by your school board, either in statements or votes. And so it's essentially a tip line. And it is testimony@fairwisconsin.com. We are receiving tips and we are then taking the next steps to follow up with those people and investigate further and decide on our next course of action. So it is a moving fluid situation. Much alike Title IX is right now across the country, but in Wisconsin, we are doing something about it. - So can you give us an idea of like what happens next? You file a federal complaint with the Board of Education? - Great question. So you file a federal civil rights complaint with the United States Department of Education Office for Civil Rights. - Got it. - And then the gears of bureaucracy turn sometimes a little glacially slow, I'll say. Having worked in bureaucracies in my life, I understand why. It's not always for bad reasons. A lot of the time it's for due diligence reasons. And so once you file the federal complaint and it is acknowledged, then the investigation is either opened or not opened. We are currently in the filing acknowledgement situation. We are not any further than that right now 'cause it's only been a week and a few days. And then from there on out, if officers of a rights decides to take up this investigation, they will take it from there. The other thing I'll mention is, and I think this is important that I failed to mention earlier about this filing of the complaint, we're doing it as two organizations on behalf of trans and non-binary students in Kedomorin School District or other school districts. If we decide to do it elsewhere based on these tips that we're getting and the next steps that we decide on, we're doing it on their behalf because this is a safety concern for some people. I would empower anyone to take any kind of action that makes them feel safer, of course. And I am hoping that it can feel like safety, that two organizations that are statewide, like Fair Response and the due safe, do care enough about the trans and non-binary kids in all the different school districts to try and essentially step up when we don't want to ask the kids or the families to have to do it for themselves. More power to them than if they want to, but I've been thinking about this for longer than one might expect. I've only been here for eight weeks, but in this job, but as a teacher and as a gender and sexuality alliance advisor, I found it very important to always remember that some of the most compelling arguments that people can make for trans rights are by trans kids, but we should not expect them to always be defending their own right to exist. And so we have to, when possible, also step up. And so I'm not trans and I am here as a very, very, very strong advocate and co-conspirator in the fight. And so that's also one of the reasons that we wanted to do it as organizations, is to create that buffer of safety for people as well. - Yeah, I've talked on the show a bunch of times with various people about the importance of being an ally. And I heard what someone once say, we shouldn't look to the oppressed to learn about oppression. We should be standing up for people who are oppressed and help it stop. That's the point you're making. I felt the strength of the two organizations coming together in that press release too, having met Tyrone and looking forward to meeting you today, I thought that the message was loud and clear. And that's amazing. - I'm really looking forward to that partnership continuing, it always existed. G-safe and fair with Johnson & Ford. He's had a really strong relationship, but as someone who's a former educator, I was actually a G-safe educator of the year ago. Like I'm really excited about sort of working that muscle together. - And I'll tell our listeners that if you're interested in sort of keeping track about the progression here, you can hop over to either organization's website and get on newsletters and you'll get updates. - Absolutely. - You wrote a really, I'm changing topics real quick. - Good for it. - You wrote a really great opinion piece for Up North News last week. And it was titled, "We Need a Teacher in the White House." I couldn't agree more, but tell us why you feel that way and why you feel this teacher specifically is important. - I would love to talk about Tim Walz, Tim Walz. Tim Walz and I don't appear to have a lot in common, but we actually do have quite a bit in common. And one of the reasons I wanted to write that editorial because we have endorsed Harris as an organization for president is that there are lessons you learn in the classroom and as a GSA advisor that enrich your life and that in Tim Walz's case, he has taken and turned into really good policy. And I don't think people all know that through line. So I thought it was really important. So he's a social media teacher. He knows the history of censorship. So when he passes the law in Minnesota to essentially eliminate the ability to ban a book based on ideology, that matters, right? Like he knows kids need to eat in order to learn. So when he passes universal free meals in Minnesota, that's why. Same thing about, I think the most compelling thing about Tim Walz actually is the fact that he definitely learned from the kids in his life, the students and his own children, the importance of the ability to change your mind. And so his change of heart when it comes to gun law reform is incredibly important to me. And the fact that it was spurred by his daughter talking to her father about active shooter drills, which I'm sure he also supervised at a certain point as a teacher, that's meaningful to me, right? And the other thing I always think about as teachers you're always trained to never be bystanders to bullies and look who he's running against. And look at what some government states, some governments and what this potential prize of 2025 government would do. It's governmental bullying to strip bodily autonomy away from people who need an abortion or people who need trans-health care. And this is the kind of person who knows how to stand up to a bully and instead call for belonging, which is exactly what he did in his speech and exactly what I've been hearing him do ever since. And exactly what he did as a GSA advisor in the 1990s in rural Arizona. - Right, the stories coming from past students have been pretty amazing. - I agree. - So that opinion piece is on the Up North News website. If you're interested in seeing it. Abby, anything else we need to talk about before we part ways tonight? I feel like we could talk for hours. - Oh, oh, we definitely could. Oh, wow, couldn't we? Can I just give a huge shout out to my staff where we're small, but muddy, I'd share with Council. And just, you know, all this title, nine work, all this work on the get out the vote, the work on endorsements, like it could not happen without Kate and Sean and Marilyn. And we are small but muddy. I think people who know the work we do think we're far bigger organization. We are so, it's exciting and I just wanna thank them. - Of course, nonprofits usually are small but mighty. And so we're happy to acknowledge the people in your world that are helping you make it happen. So unfortunately, that's about all we have time for tonight. So I wanna say thanks so much for joining us, Abby. It's been really cool to talk with you and learn more about what Fair Wisconsin is doing. If you want to find out ways you can help or just stay in touch, you can visit the website. It's fairwisconsin.com, correct? - It is fairwisconsin.com. We've got two easy buttons at the top. Take your actions, sign up for our newsletter, donate 'cause they give us money. Right on, right on. Thank you friends so much for tuning in to tonight's edition of Query. I've been your host, Vicki Kenyon. Please come back next week for Query when Heidi Deuce and Maggie Conrad are gonna visit and talk about Open the Out Professionals Engagement Network here in Madison. They have a cool event coming up. Giant thanks to Katie, our engineer and Shali, our second engineer tonight. Coming up next is a new edition of This Way Out. Please stay tuned and have an excellent evening. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) ♪ I will be happy ♪ - More money.
Fair Wisconsin's Executive Director, Abigail Swetz, talks with Vicki about Fair Wisconsin's work, Title IX, and why we need a teacher in the White House.