Idaho Matters

Boise BPD Chief visits Morning Edition, talks trust, finding peace and 'struggling well' in the shadow of a shooting

“It is ... It's a terrible position to be in. I remember that night … the emotions that were going through me, just how I felt about the incident.”

Broadcast on:: 02 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

A greater focus on mental health. More transparency. Gaining trust. Those are just a few items on Boise Police Chief Chris Dennison’s to-do list. It has only been a matter of days since he officially took the job, after the city hired Dennison, a 20-plus veteran of the Tucson, Arizona police department.

“There were three things, growing up, I wanted to be: a baseball player, an astronaut, and a cop,” said Dennison. “It ended up being a copy. I couldn’t imagine doing anything else.”

Dennison sat down with Morning Edition host George Prentice for a wide-ranging conversation, where they discussed some specifics on how Dennison hopes to earn the community’s trust. Plus Dennison recounted the first time he had to fire a weapon in the line of duty … and how something called “Struggle Well” helped him and might help his fellow officers.

Read the full transcript below:

GEORGE PRENTICE: Chief, is being in law enforcement… is this in your family? Is this in your DNA? Where does this come from?

CHRISTOPHER DENNISON: Oh, it's not my family. I'm the first in my family to join law enforcement. It is in my DNA. There were three things growing up I wanted to be: a baseball player, an astronaut and a cop and ended up as a cop. So it has been a little over 20 years in law enforcement, and I couldn't imagine doing anything else.

PRENTICE: Where'd you grow up?

DENNISON: In Tucson, Arizona.

PRENTICE: Brothers? Sisters?

DENNISON: I am the oldest of five. I have three brothers and a sister.

PRENTICE: And are they scattered?

DENNISON: No. We all stayed pretty close to Tucson, around the surrounding communities there. So, I'm the first one to have moved away.

PRENTICE: Uh, tell me when this is none of my business. Did you bring family with you?

DENNISON: My wife and daughter will be joining me. So, we're in the final stages of looking for a home. I'm definitely excited to get them up here.

PRENTICE: What did the mayor tell you that we needed in a police chief?

DENNISON: Looking for stability for the agency. Focus on employee wellness officer wellness. Making sure we're taking care of the officers to take care of the community. Transparency is obviously important to make sure that the community trusts the police department. We need the community to actually be effective at doing the job. Uh, some of the other conversations talked about is, you know, City of Boise is growing, and we're going to have to make sure that the department is prepared to grow with it and building the infrastructure around the department to be able to sustain that growth and move with it.

PRENTICE: So, let's talk about trust. I'm certain this is no surprise to you that our community has struggled with trust in general, but with this department in particular for a couple of reasons. That said, have you ever had an experience where you had to win or gain someone's trust? I'm wondering what works to gain someone's trust, because it's hard.

DENNISON: Yeah, just being authentic. I wanted to be authentic in all my interviews here. This is the person I am. This is who I'm going to be. This is how I'm going to lead. This is how I'm going to manage. I didn't want to pretend to be somebody else. I think that goes a long way to where you can just sit down with somebody, you can have a conversation, and you don't feel like they're playing games with you. They're just upfront with their answers and upfront with their views. And I think that that's what needs to build trust and being able to put yourself out there a little bit. You know, for me, putting myself out there and not necessarily expecting that to be reciprocated and that's okay. I mean.

PRENTICE: Some of this comes with the job, but do you expect to be quite visible?

DENNISON: I don't think there's a way around not being visible. That's just part of the job.

PRENTICE: But you can also be a little bit more visible too. In other words, through neighborhood engagement, right?

DENNISON: It's important. As a patrol captain, when I worked on our West Side Patrol division, it was during Covid. It was coming out of Covid and during the George Floyd protests in 2020. And I went from being responsible for the significant parts of the Tucson Police Department's response to those riots and protests, to having to actively engage with communities who didn't trust the police. So, it was being visible. It was going to neighborhood events, bringing officers with me, engaging with parents and kids. And then, you know, eventually, for one, one community in particular had a pretty significant history of not trusting the police and didn't really want us in their community to before I had left that division and was promoted, we were actually doing neighborhood parties on weekends at the substation. You know, they were kind enough to let us come into their home and be a part of their community there. We wanted them to come and be a part of us. So we invited them to the, you know, to the substation. We opened up to them. They had live music. Um, they always fed us so well. I was so excited to go to any of those events, but that was part of it is just building that trust. Sounds like a good idea.

PRENTICE: We have the “Night Out’s,” and things like that that are a little bit more formal, but maybe a little bit more of that. Sounds like a pretty good idea too.

DENNISON: Yeah. You know, that's how you build trust. It's the, you know, going out and just meeting with people. And, you know, police departments do this. You know, it's coffee with a cop coming. Come and talk to your officers, going to the neighborhood meetings, you know, National Night Out thing, those things. But it's also being willing to be out in the community and engage with folks as much as possible. And that is something I absolutely will do.

PRENTICE: Every department is different when a new chief comes in. Certainly not right away. Maybe years and years go by. Do you have a hope for how you might make this department a little different….or certainly a little better?

DENNISON: You know, obviously employee wellness is going to incredibly important to me. And making sure that we're taking care of those who are tasked to take care of the community. So, you know, looking at what's already been done in wellness and how to expand that infrastructure for the department and the ability to grow. Everything I read about the city of Boise is it's a growing city. It's expected to grow pretty rapidly over the next several years.

PRENTICE: Do you like the idea of precincts?

DENNISON: Yeah, we called them substations in Tucson. But yes, absolutely. Having forward facing locations that the that the community members could go to in their area to engage with the police, I think is helpful. Um, so building out some of those, especially on the east side of the city where that is definitely lacking, and we want to see expansion there. Yeah. So, I think, you know, looking at over the next several years, how do we increase that footprint and that, um, access for police services and ability to come to the, to the police station if they need to file a report or seek services or help.

PRENTICE: Every presentation I've heard for the last couple of years is that we need more cops. Your predecessor says, hey, we need something like 129 new officers sooner than later based on our growth.

DENNISON: Yeah, I think absolutely. The department's going to going to have to, uh, it's going to have to grow. We're going to need more officers to just for the resources that are needed to ensure that we're providing effective police services for the city.

PRENTICE: You think that you can make that happen?

DENNISON: Absolutely. I think the city is in a great place for it. Uh, the discussions I've had with the mayor and some of the council members, uh, definitely lend to that. Absolutely. For the infrastructure, the expansion of the agency, um, as needed and required to make sure that it continues to be an effective police department.

PRENTICE: And how do we get a force that is truly reflective of our community? Demographics-wise? Now, obviously you want the best of the best, right? And that's priority number one. That said, there's something to be said for a reflection of our community.

DENNISON: Yeah, that goes just to recruiting efforts and officers. Officers being out in the community, being out in the community. There's a lot of folks who live in and around the city of Boise who may have never considered a career in law enforcement. It just, you know, it never it never occurred to them. And I think our officers are great ambassadors for the profession. I in my short time here, I've received numerous compliments coming in from the community about just how engaging the officers were and how appreciative just them being there and the energy that they, um, that they were showing toward the community at different events. So I think that's how you do, you know. Absolutely. You want the best. Um, you know, don't want to decrease the standards for what we accept as a police officer, but within the within communities that haven't considered it, those people exist. Absolutely. And how do you reach them? How do you reach them? Is being out in the community at different events, talking to them and letting them see that police officers are people, too? We have, you know, yeah, you know, hopes and fears like everybody else. We have worries like everybody else and, you know, seeing themselves in the uniform so they can see themselves in the uniform because it's not foreign to them.

PRENTICE: Chief, have you ever had to fire your weapon in the line of duty?

DENNISON: I have.

PRENTICE: And at what point in your career did that happen?

DENNISON: I believe that was in 2014. I was a supervisor for a plainclothes street squad. We did a lot of work in the area of prostitution… narcotics. A lot of it was significant. A lot of narcotics work.

PRENTICE: Night or day?

DENNISON: This was during the day that this occurred. So, it's kind of a kind of an involved story, but a gentleman… a vehicle parks… a gentleman gets out and he looks down the road at the toward the officers where I'm at with some other officers. And he looks at my officer, who, like I said, he's in a plainclothes car and he pulls out a gun, waves around and says, “I'm a cop killer.” We were getting information. He was basically terrorizing this small apartment complex, And we also had info from the FBI at that time that he had been tasked to do a hit on a rival gang member. While SWAT was getting their equipment in place and prepping to get briefed. We were still on surveillance. The suspect left on foot, obviously with a lot of the info we had, the propensity for the threats to violence and the fact that he was supposed to potentially kill a rival gang member. We had absolute belief he was armed. Um, an officer myself and I was a sergeant at the time, so I was supervising the squad. We stopped. We stopped to make contact with him. Ended in a foot chase. As we were chasing, he turned and fired at myself and another officer. We returned fire, striking him. We rendered medical aid, got him to the hospital. He's still alive today. He's sitting in prison. When he was interviewed by detectives, he had told him he believed it was his chance to kill a cop. And then he pled guilty to two counts of attempted murder.

PRENTICE: So how do you train a young man or woman for the psychological after-effect of something like that.

DENNISON: It is…. It's a terrible position to be in. I remember that night…the emotions that were going through me, just how I felt about the incident, um, struggling with my faith and how that was at conflict with what had just happened. But what I've learned and, you know, and to some, we had done such a tremendous job of engaging our officers and working on, on ways to give them tools to deal with it. And whether it's, you know, sometimes the littlest things, it's keeping a journal. It's, uh, doing a gratitude. What are you thankful for? It's disclosure. It's talking to people about things that you've been through. You know, you’re 3 to 5 trusted people that you can talk to and, and, uh, and work through things. Um, there's other things that I had gone through that helped me at you know, Whether, you know, it's, you know, having a better diet. It's consistent exercise, meditation, just things that you can, you can do to, to build your, to build some resiliency. So when you know, if something, God forbid, like this happens, that you have some of those tools to fall back on to help walk you through that.

PRENTICE: I have to assume that you bring that with you when you come into this job.

DENNISON: Yes. I have been very fortunate. I got to go through a great program. Tucson police allowed me to go through a nonprofit program. And it was super helpful. And the department actually brought elements from that nonprofit into the department to work on. It’s called “Struggle Well.” And really, it is just working with folks who, you know, we all go through things in our life. It doesn't mean just law enforcement or not. And it's building those mechanisms, those tools that you have to help unload some of that baggage so you can be more present and engaged.

PRENTICE: Again, tell me if it's none of my business, but where do you find peace in your life?

DENNISON: I find peace in my life with my wife and my daughter and my family… my parents, my brothers, my sister. And…..you know, I find peace in my life driving my Jeep. I just… I enjoy getting in my Jeep. So, you know, things like that are important. But my family.

PRENTICE: The last question I'll ask is about the safety of pedestrians, cyclists, skateboarders. To the person, every public official that I talked to at the council level and also at ACHD uses the word “crisis.” Way too many people have been hit and way too many people have been killed. We've got a problem. We have a significant problem of vehicles versus pedestrian versus cyclist. How do you get your arms around that? Are there things we can change sooner than later?

DENNISON: Yeah. I wish to say this was a super easy answer. This is not something…

PRENTICE: This may be the issue of our times, right?

DENNISON: Absolutely. It's not unique to the city of Boise. We've seen this across the country. The city I just came from last year, I believe we touched 100 vehicle related fatalities from collisions, both vehicle versus vehicle, vehicle versus motorcycle, single vehicle collision, pedestrians. All the things that the city of Boise is seeing. And it's okay. How do you how do you fix it?

PRENTICE: Because there's a good many people who say enforcement, that's the first thing out of their mouth is enforcement of the law. But it's got to be bigger than that.

DENNISON: Yeah, I think it's going to be technological. They're distracted. Driving is definitely an issue. How many people you drive by where you look around at a streetlight and their heads buried in their phone, that is, you know, it's paying attention when you're on the road, realizing it's not just you in the car by yourself. You have people who have families and loved ones that are also using these streets. So, education is a component of it. It's technology. It's infrastructure. What can we design? Can we make, can we design things within the city and with the infrastructure that makes it safer and enforcement is a part of it, but it's not the answer for everything. It needs to be a real holistic look at what we can do through education, technology, infrastructure and enforcement to drive those numbers down and make it safer to be on the street. I drive these streets, my family's going to be driving these streets. We you know, a good.

PRENTICE: Part of it is what's going on between our ears, right? I mean, obviously it's awareness. But it's just the fact that there's a lot of vulnerable people out there.

DENNISON: There is a lot of people driving that distracted driving is a is a concern. So, it's, you know, like again, education I think is an important part of that. You have a lot of young drivers on the road and people are easily distracted. Um, I would like to say I'm impervious to that. I'm not. There's a lot of things occurring in our world. Um, so it's understanding when we just need to put the phone down and focus on getting from point A to point B and making sure we get there safely for not just ourselves and our family, but for everybody else's family.

PRENTICE: Chief, great good luck to you.

DENNISON: Thank you, I appreciate it.

Find reporter George Prentice @georgepren

Chief, is being in law enforcement, is this in your family, is this in your DNA, where does this come from? Oh, I don't, it's not my family, I'm the first in my family to join law enforcement. It is in my DNA, it's something I've, there was three things growing up I wanted to be, it was a baseball player and astronaut and a cop, and ended up as a cop. Okay. So, been, you know, a little over 20 years in law enforcement, and I couldn't imagine doing anything else. Where did you grow up? In Tucson, Arizona. Are your sisters? I am the oldest of five, I have three brothers and a sister. Okay, and are they scattered? No, we all stayed pretty close to Tucson around the surrounding communities there, so I'm the first one to have moved away, so. Tell me when this is none of my business, did you bring family with you? My wife and daughter will be joining me, so we're in the final stages of looking for a home. Looking for a home, right? Yeah, I'm definitely excited to get them prepared. And, can I ask, what grade your daughter might be going into? She'll be starting third grade. Third grade? Oh my goodness. And good luck with that. Thank you. What did the mayor tell you that we needed in a police chief? Looking for stability for the agency, focus on, you know, employee wellness, officer wellness, making sure we're taking care of the officers to take care of the community. Transparency is obviously important to make sure the community trusts the police department. We need the community to actually be effective at doing the job. Some of the other conversations talked about is, you know, city of Boise is growing, and we're going to have to make sure that the department is prepared to grow with it and building the infrastructure around the department to be able to sustain that growth and move with it. So let's talk about trust. I'm certain this is no surprise to you that our community has struggled with trust in general, but with this department in particular for a couple of reasons. That said, have you ever had an experience where you had to win or gain someone's trust? I'm wondering what works to to gain someone's trust. Because it's hard. Yeah. Just being authentic. I wanted to be authentic in all my interviews here. This is the person I am. This is who I'm going to be. This is how I'm going to lead. This is how I'm going to manage. I didn't want to pretend to be somebody else. I think that goes a long ways where you can just sit down with somebody. You can have a conversation and you don't feel like they're playing games with you. They're just up front with their answers and up front with their views. And I think that that's what needs to build trust and being able to put yourself out there a little bit, you know, for me, putting myself out there and not necessarily expecting that to be reciprocated. And that's okay. I mean, some of this comes with the job. But do you expect to be quite visible? I don't think there's a way around not being visible. That's just part of the job. But you can also be a little bit more visible too. Yeah. In other words, those, that neighborhood engagement. Right. No, it's important. As a patrol captain, when I worked on our West Side Patrol division, it was during COVID. It was coming out of COVID and during the George Floyd protest in 2020. And I went from being responsible for the significant parts of the Tucson Police Department's response to those riots in protest to having to actively engage with communities who didn't trust the police. So it was being visible. It was going to neighborhood events, bringing officers with me, engaging with parents and kids. And then eventually for one community in particular had a pretty significant history of not trusting the police and didn't really want us in their community to, before I had left, that division was promoted, we were actually doing neighborhood parties on weekends at the substation, you know, they were kind enough to let us come into their home and be a part of their community there. We wanted them to come and be a part of us. So we invited them to the, you know, to the substation. We opened up to them. They had live music. They always fed us so, I was so excited to go to any of those events. But that was part of it. Just building that trust. Sounds like a good idea. Yeah. I mean, we have, you know, the nightouts and things like that that are a little bit more formal, but maybe a little bit more of that sounds like a pretty good idea too. You know, it, that's how you build trust, it's the, you know, going out and just meeting with people and, you know, police departments, you know, it's coffee with the cop coming, come and talk to your officers, going to the neighborhood meetings, you know, national night out thing, those things, but it's also being willing to be out in the community and engage with, with folks as much as possible. And that is something I absolutely will do. Every department is different when a new chief comes in, certainly not right away. Maybe years and years go by. If you have a hope for how you might make this department a little different, certainly a little better, you know, obviously employee wellness is going to be incredible, incredibly important to me in making sure that we're taking care of those who are tasked to take care of the community. So, you know, looking what's already been done in wellness and how to expand that infrastructure for the department and the ability to grow. Everything I read about the city of Boise is it's a growing city. It's expected to grow pretty rapidly over the next several years. Do you like the idea of precincts? Yeah, we call them substations, but yes, absolutely, having forward facing locations that the community members could go to in their area to engage with the police, I think, is helpful. So building out some of those, especially on the east side of the city where that is definitely lacking and we want to see expands in there. Yeah. And I think, you know, looking at over the next several years, how do we increase that footprint and that access for police services and ability to come to the police station if they need to file a report or seek services or help. Every presentation I've heard for the last couple of years is that we need more cops. Do you agree with? I mean, you have to agree with that. I mean, your predecessor says, hey, we need something like 129 new officers sooner than later based on our growth. Yeah, I think absolutely the department is going to have to grow, going to need more officers to just for the resources that are needed to ensure that we're providing effective police services for the city. Do you think that you can make that happen? Absolutely. I think the city is in a great place for it. The discussions I've had with Mayor and some of the council members, definitely, are a lend to that absolutely for the infrastructure, the expansion of the agency, as needed and required to make sure that it continues to be an effective police department. And how do we get a force that is truly reflective of our community, demographics, wise? Now, obviously, you want the best of the best, right? And that's priority number one that said there's something to be said for a reflection of our community. Yeah, that goes just to recruiting efforts and officers being out in the community. There's a lot of folks who live in and around the city of Boise who may have never considered a career in law enforcement. It just never occurred to them. And I think our officers are great ambassadors for the profession. In my short time here, I've received numerous compliments coming in from the community about just how engaging the officers were and how appreciative just them being there and the energy that they were showing toward the community at different events. I think that's how you do. Absolutely, you want the best, don't want to decrease the standards for what we accept as a police officer. But within communities that haven't considered it, those people exist, absolutely, and how do you reach them as being out in the community at different events talking to them and letting them see that police officers are people too. We have hopes and fears like everybody else. We have worries like everybody else and seeing themselves in the uniform so they can see themselves in the uniform because it's not foreign to them. Chief, have you ever had to fire your weapon in the line of duty? I have. And at what point in your career did that happen? So I believe that was in 2014. I was a supervisor for a playing closed street squad. He did a lot of work in the area of vice prostitution, narcotics, a lot of narcotics work. Night or day? This was during the day that this occurred. So it's kind of an involved story, but a gentleman, a vehicle park, a gentleman gets out and he looks down the road at the toward officers where I'm at with some other officers and he looks at my officer who, like I said, he's in a playing closed car and he pulls out a gun, waves around, says I'm a cop killer. We were getting information. He was basically terrorized in the small apartment complex. And we also had info from the FBI at that time that he was, he had been tasked to do a hit on a rival gang member. While SWAT was getting their equipment in place and prepping to get briefed, we were still on surveillance. The suspect left on foot, obviously with a lot of the info we had, the propensity for the threats to violence and the fact that he was supposed to potentially kill a rival gang member. And presumably armed? Yes. Had absolutely he was armed. An officer myself and I was a sergeant at the time, so a supervising squad, we stopped, we stopped to make contact with him, ended in a foot chases. We were chasing. He turned and fired at myself and another officer. We returned fire, striking him. We rendered medical aid, got him to the hospital. He's still a life day. He's sitting in prison. When he was interviewed by detectives, he had told him he believed it was in prison. He had his chance to kill a cop and then he pled guilty due to counts of attempted murder. How do you train a young man or woman for this psychological after effect of something like that? It's a terrible position to be in. I remember that night, the emotions that were going through me, just how I felt about the incident, struggling with my faith and how that was at conflict with what had just happened. But what I've learned and to some, we had done such a tremendous job of engaging our officers and working on ways to give them tools to deal with it and whether it's sometimes the littlest things, it's keeping a journal, it's doing a gratitude. What do you think before? Disclosure, it's talking to people about things that you've been through. You're three to five trusted people that you can talk to and work through things. There's other things that I had gone through that helped me in having a better diet. It's consistent exercise, meditation, just things that you can do to build some resiliency, so when something, God forbid, like this happens, that you have some of those tools to fall back on to help work you through that. Wow, I have to assume that you bring that with you when you come into this job. Yes, I've been very fortunate. I got to go through a great program. To some, police allowed me to go through a non-profit program and it was, it was super helpful and the department actually brought elements from that non-profit into the department to work on. It's called struggle well, and really it is just working with folks who, we all go through things in our life. It doesn't, your law enforcement or not, and it's building those mechanisms, those tools that you have to help unload some of that baggage so you can be more present and engaged. Again, tell me if it's none of my business, but where do you find peace in your life? I find peace in my life with my wife and my daughter and my family, my parents, my brothers, my sister. I find peace in my life driving my jeep. I enjoy getting my jeep. You're in a good place to do that. Yes, yes, I'm very excited for that. Things like that are important, but my family. The last question I'll ask is about safety of pedestrian cyclists, skateboarders, to the person, every public official that I talk to at the council level and also at ACHD, et cetera. It uses the word crisis. Way too many people have been hit, and way too many people have been killed. We've got a problem. We have a significant problem of vehicle versus pedestrian versus cyclist, et cetera. How do you get your arms around that? Are there things we can change sooner than later? Yeah, I wish to say this was a super easy answer. This is not something we need to make the issue of our times. Right, absolutely. It's not unique to the city of Boise. Yeah. We've seen this across the country. The city I just came from last year, I believe we touched a hundred vehicle related fatalities from collisions, both vehicle versus vehicle versus motorcycle, single vehicle, pedestrians, all the things that the city of Boise has seen, and it's okay, how do you fix it? Because there's a good many people who say enforcement, that's the first thing out of their mouth is enforcement of the law, but it's got to be bigger than that. Yeah, I think it's going to be technological. Distracted driving is definitely an issue. How many people you drive by where you look around a street light in their heads buried in their phone? That is, it's paying attention when you're on the road realizing it's not just you and the car by yourself. You have people who have families and loved ones that are also using these streets, so education is a component of its technology, its infrastructure. Can we design things within the city and with the infrastructure that makes it safer? An enforcement is a part of it, but it's not the answer for everything. It needs to be a real holistic look at what we can do through education, technology, infrastructure and enforcement to drive those numbers down and make it safer to be on the street. I drive these streets, my family is going to be driving these streets. A good part of it is what's going on between our ears, right? I mean, obviously it's awareness, et cetera, but it's just the fact that there's a lot of vulnerable people out there. There is, a lot of people driving that distracted driving is a concern, so it's, again, education I think is an important part of that. You have a lot of young drivers on the road and people are easily distracted. I would like to say I'm impervious to that, I'm not, there's a lot of things occurring in our world, so it's understanding when we just need to put the phone down and focus on getting from point A to point B and making sure we get there safely, for not just ourselves and our family, but for everybody else's family. Chief, great, good luck to you. Thank you, I appreciate it.