CANADALAND

Israel: the Canadaland Interview

Israel’s Ambassador to Canada, Iddo Moed, sits down with Jesse for a candid and intense discussion about how Israel’s actions during the war are impacting Canadians. Antisemitism, campus protests, Gazan visas, Lebanon, and setter violence in the West Bank – all of this is covered. Plus: is Jesse an Israeli collaborator?

Host: Jesse Brown

Credits: Sam Konnert (Audio and Video Recording), Tristan Capacchione (Audio Editor and Technical Producer), Bruce Thorson (Senior Producer), max collins (Production Manager), Jesse Brown (Editor and Publisher)

Featured guests: Ambassador of Israel to Canada, Iddo Moed

Additional music by Audio Network

Further information:

Further context and a fact-check on what Ambassador Moed said in this interview: https://www.canadaland.com/a-response-to-canadalands-interview-with-israels-ambassador-to-canada/

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Broadcast on:: 07 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

(whistling) - Canada land, funded by you. - I'm Jesse Brown, and today, October 7th, we're talking to Canada's ally, Israel. You say that Israel relies on the support of Canadians and Canadians you specifically. Is that support a blank check? - Never a blank check. - Wait for that. (upbeat electronic music) - Canada Land is brought to you by CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health. We're trying out something that we have not done before. Later in this episode, you will hear me speak to Chris Cole, a two-time cross-country cyclist and a filmmaker who has experienced mental illness and addiction himself. He's gonna share his story and he's gonna talk about how resources like CAMH have helped him and many others like him to manage their mental health. Keep an air out for that. And listen, if what Chris has to say later on means something to you, if his story moves you at all, please consider donating. Visit CAMH.ca/CanadaLand. One more time, c-a-m-h.ca/CanadaLand. This episode is brought to you by Douglas. Douglas is a mattress, it's made in Canada, it's a great mattress. In fact, it's three mattresses. They've got different versions of this surprisingly affordable but always incredible mattress. I've tried it, it is great. You can get the original, the alpine, or the summit and they're giving our listeners a free sleep bundle with each mattress purchase. Get the sheets, pillows, mattress, and pillow protectors free with your Douglas purchase today. Visit Douglas.ca/CanadaLand to claim this offer. Have a look, see which model is right for you. Go to Douglas.ca/CanadaLand. (whistling) Today's show is about what happened one year ago on October 7th, and it's about everything that's happened since. But I think that the right place to start today is with something that I said 10 years ago. Almost 10 years ago, exactly. We posted an episode called "Why I Hate Talking About Israel." Here's a bit of what I said back then on October 19th, 2014. I did not want to do a show about Israel. They just didn't see the point. I have been talking with people about Israel my whole life and I don't know to what end. I have never engaged in a conversation about Israel where anyone has convinced the other person of anything. Feelings get hurt, tempers flare, it gets really raw, all of which I'm okay with, but to what end? There's just so much that could go wrong. There's so many of you who could be offended. It's almost like I'm not doing my job if some of you are an offended or if I don't offend people on both sides of this, and I have no idea what's to be gained. I don't know how we can make progress on this. I don't know what the "Canada Land" podcast is going to offer to the mid-east conflict that is going to push the ball forward, a fraction of a fraction of a centimeter. Well, that holds up pretty well. I heated my own advice for the next nine years after that episode. I touched on the topic of Israel, Palestine very rarely and only in circumstances where it seemed clear to me that we had to, that we couldn't really cover what was happening in Canada without covering what was happening in the Middle East. And even then, I tried to limit myself to talking only about the impacts here for the reasons that 2014 Jesse explained to you so breathlessly just a moment ago. And that's how it went for about nine years. And then a year ago today came October 7th. And ever since then, not talking about Israel has been impossible. The impacts on Canadians every day have been drastic. And still, I thought, you know, if I just stick to those impacts, if I talk about our media and Canadian universities and our streets and not who is right or wrong over there because who cares what I have to say about that? Well, I thought, if I just do my job as the host of "Canada Land" and just talk about that, well, maybe then everything would be okay. But no, everything that 2014 Jesse predicted would happen has happened. Feelings have been hurt, tempers have flared. It has gotten really raw. I have offended people on all sides of these issues and I've taken losses, we've taken losses. We've lost supporters and colleagues. We've lost relationships. We've lost friends. And we're not through it all yet. It's all still happening. I think that maybe war just does not tolerate neutrality. War demands that you pick a side. It sucks everything and everyone into a brutal binary. You must denounce Hamas. You must agree it's a genocide. You must pick a side. Maybe that's just how war works. Here's another clip from the past from the first podcast that we put out after October 7th. Still just processing everything that was going on at the time. At the time, I still hoped that my cousin's cousin, the peace activist Vivian Silver, I hope that she might still be alive. I was hoping that she was among one of Hamas's hostages. We now know that Vivian Silver was killed by Hamas at Kibbutzbury, where she lived on October 7th. I spoke with my colleague Emily Nikola on that episode. We banished from our brains. Emily, I think that Israel should exist and I think that Palestine should be free. And if I'm going to fight for anything, it's the right to think both of those things. I'm going to protect my right to value human life on either side of that fence. And that's not both sidesism. No, because you can say that either you're with us or you are with the terrorists. And we know where that leads. And it scares me because the ability to hold different things to be true at the same time and to hold different peoples in your heart at the same time. I feel like the space in our hearts has just been shrinking. And our ability to understand complexity has just been shrinking probably because we're exhausted. But it's definitely not there for a lot of people. It's the only thing we can do. Well, that one does not hold up as well as the first clip. Because when it's war, it's war. And even if you don't pick a side, people will put you on one. I've spent the last year talking about what's been happening in Canada largely about what's been happening to Jews in Canada. And because of that, people have put me on a side. They have assumed that I'm on a side. But they're actually not the ones that I'm talking about today. Because there's somebody else who I think may have assumed that I have taken a side. Israel. I think that Israel may have thought that. Or at least the Israeli embassy in Ottawa. I think perhaps they have made that assumption. What am I talking about? Last month, out of the blue, I got an email from the Israeli embassy in Ottawa. This is what they wrote. They told me that they were contacting me to request a meeting between me and Israel's ambassador to Canada, his excellency, Idomo Ed. "He would welcome an opportunity to meet with you," they wrote, and discussed the rising anti-Semitism in Canada and the current situation in the Middle East. The relationship between the progressive community in Canada and the Jewish community is extremely important to us. We would welcome a chance to meet with you to discuss these topics, as well as other possible areas of collaboration. I responded. I told them I would be very glad to meet Ambassador Moed for a recorded interview. And Israel agreed. And so, last week, I drove to Ottawa because as much as I hate talking about Israel, it's rare to get a chance to talk to Israel. Wait for it. Hello, Mr. Ambassador. Hello. Let's talk about the protests here in Canada. Ostensibly, these began as anti-war protests. ceasefire protests, peace protests. What we hear now, just about every demonstration on March, are calls for Palestine to be Arab from water to water, or calls for Jews to go back to Europe, or a chance that Israel will soon be gone. So this has become, to a wide degree, an eliminationist movement. I can't think of anything else like it. We have protests in Canada against Russia, people angrily protest China, they protest Iran, but I don't hear a chance at those protests for those countries to be wiped off the map. My question for you is, it is a part of your job here to tell people Israel's side of the story. It's not going very well, is it? What we are seeing here right now is a sort of a reaction to a campaign of misinformation and disinformation of Israel being called racist, and supremacists, and all these, and colonialists, which is, of course, abhorrent. It's ridiculous, but the fact that people are walking the streets, some of them are Canadians who grew up here, who are tolerant, who are respectful of the law and all of that, and find it easy to say from the river to the sea without understanding what it really means. That's the issue that boggles my mind, because I'm asking myself, "How can you chant things in the street when you have no idea what you're talking about?" If you ask them, "What river and what sea?" Or, "What does liberation mean?" Or, "How can you reconcile rape with revolution?" And they'll be perplexed, but that question is not often asked. So I'm asking myself, this big, silent majority of Canadians who are out there, who, you know, they go about their own lives, and they don't really bother themselves too much with what's going on, and they see the numbers of people being killed in Gaza and they see the images that are presented to them by the media. I see those people saying, "Well, this has to stop." And I understand that, of course, we would like it to stop as well. No more killings, no more destruction. But the point is that we can't really stop unless we get our hostages back and Hamas is no longer a threat to us, or Hezbollah, or Iran. It's as if Israel started October 7th war, as if Israel decided to go into Gaza and to do whatever it does. And this is lopsided that much of that has become very, very popular among many people. My dilemma is, or my challenge is actually, is to bring people to understand that we have to fight. There is no other way. I don't know that this argument is getting across to Canadians. There is polling to indicate that 45% of Canadians agree with the notion that Israel is committing genocide, and that's up from 43% just a couple months before that. The longer this goes on, it does seem that Canadians are turning in large numbers against Israel. And this is the public relations effort that your office is involved in. So I say again, it does not seem to be going very well. So I would again disagree on that because I think that when people ask questions, you know, they ask specific questions in a specific context, that can be genocide, all that we've heard it before. These are claims that are based on information and disinformation that's been spread out by Hamas itself. The Ministry of Health, so-called, is Hamas organization. So when they give out numbers, you never know how much of them are terrorists. We will not deny that civilians are dying, families are dying, babies are dying, livelihoods are being destroyed, we know that. But at the same time, those same people will live side by side with us forever because they are our neighbours. It is hard for the broader public to make a distinction between who is a terrorist, who is a civilian, and how successful Israel's operation is. But we have to fight because Hamas doesn't leave us any choice. You know that antisemitism in Canada has surged to historic highs since October 7th. Things that I never thought I would see. Gunshots at synagogues, Molotov cocktails, bomb threats, bomb plots. The violence is not always symbolic. Here in Ottawa, there was a terrorist plot against the Jews of Ottawa, bomb plot. There are lines that are being crossed, angry people chanting outside of the holiest places, the most private places. When you bring this up, when you push back against this, these obvious acts of antisemitism, what you are invariably told is, this isn't about Jews. Our target is not Jews. Don't try to conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism. Do not use a charge of racism as a shield. This isn't about you, is what the Jews of Canada are told. This is about Israel. Mr. Ambassador, it might not be fair that Jews in Canada and in the United States and all around the world, it might not be fair that Jews outside of Israel are blamed for what Israel does. But it is true that Jews are blamed for what Israel does. Does Israel take any responsibility for that? What I'm hearing very often, by the way, is not what you just said. This is not about you, it's about Israel. I'm hearing more often than not, this is not Canada. So, when O Canada is being played at a flag-raising ceremony, and people are singing, those anti-Israel protesters continue to wave their flags and chants from the river to the sea, I see that this is exactly what I'm told, this is not Canada. They are not Canadians. So, there is a very clear distinction that needs to be made between those groups who hide themselves, behind masks, and go to the JCC, all the age home here in Ottawa. And shout at those people, go back to your homes, Holocaust survivors, and whoever else is there, have nothing to do with Israel. We have to understand who these people are, where do they come from, why are they there, what is their motivation. This is not pro-Palestinian, the fact that they are carrying the flags. They are actually out there to change something very fundamental and significant in Canada and in Western society. And this is the point, when it comes to attacking Jewish businesses, when it comes to encampments and universities, and it's about dis-allowing Jewish students from entering campuses, this is about actually changing civilization. Universities have a critical role in developing our knowledge base, our curiosity, our science and technology, our prosperity. And when they attack it, and they want to instill their agenda on the university to force themselves, on the university, they call it divestment. We're doing a little bit... I'm sorry to interrupt, I don't mean to be rude. I'm not sure you're answering the question. It is a fact that this is harming Jews in Canada, does Israel take responsibility for that? Tiny degree, are you here merely to represent Israel or is anti-Semitism in Canada a priority or something you're involved? It's a very high priority, and it's on top of my discussions with any official here in Canada. And it's all for me to take responsibility for a phenomenon that's inflicted by somebody else, but I do stand up and say to all Jews and non-Jews, stand up, speak up, fight against this, because this is indeed something that does not belong here. This is something that hurts our society. It also hurts our relations. Canada Land is brought to everybody by CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health. We are proud to partner again with CAMH, because CAMH is leading the charge in mental health treatment for everybody. Listen, I recently spoke to a guy named Chris Call, who is a two-time cross-Canada cyclist and a filmmaker and a recovering opioid user. Chris has a long history of experiencing mental illness. Mental health is something I've struggled with since at least my teens. I knew something was wrong. I just was down in order, couldn't get out of it. Back then, I wasn't talked about too much. You were looked at like you were an alien if you were going through a really rough time and I remember it bottomed out at grade 11. That was exactly what happened. Chris's story is not unique. Half of all Canadians will experience mental illness before they turned 40. That means that if you haven't experienced mental illness in your life, you definitely know someone who has. A lot of people who access CAMH services and mental health and addiction services are in a home. Have a roof over their head, have meals to eat, have everything going. It doesn't discriminate against anybody. It doesn't matter about your social class, your race, religion, color, creed. Mental health and addiction is mental health and addiction. That's someone's dad or mother or sister. You know what I mean? And that's somebody to somebody. So if you're a human being, it's going to impact you and what way to do it. CAMH is building better mental health care for everyone to ensure that no one is left behind. But they need your support to keep doing that good work. This mental illness awareness week, your donation to CAMH will be matched. This is the time to do it. Every dollar you give them will magically turn into $2. Visit CAMH.ca/CanadaLand right now to double your impact. One more time, CAMH.ca/CanadaLand. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Halloween is coming up this month. It is a big time for costumes and masks. But wearing a mask doesn't just happen on October 31st. Think of a time recently when you just didn't feel like you could be your full self, you know, like you had to put on appearance, like you were hiding behind a mask. I think this is increasingly common. It has to do with I think the ways in which we're different, depending on where we are, and we often have personas online. It can feel sometimes like there's a danger of losing track. It can feel sometimes like one persona can overtake the other. Therapy can help you learn to accept all parts of yourself. So you can take off the masks. Because masks should be for Halloween fun, not as crutches to hide our emotions. Listen, talking to people about whatever you're going through is an enormously healthy and beneficial thing to do. If you've tried therapy before, but you haven't done it in a while, you weren't sure about it, if you want to come back to it, BetterHelp is a great way to do it. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world. They can provide access to mental health professionals with a wide variety of expertise. Take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/CanadaLand today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com/CanadaLand. This episode is brought to you by Policy Me. If you have benefits that is fantastic, I'm glad for you, but not everyone has a job with benefits. A lot of people are self-employed. I was one of them for many years. A lot of people are retired, congratulations. On the downside though, you may find yourself paying out of pocket for lots of medical expenses. That's why you should consider Policy Me. Policy Me's health and dental insurance offers a comprehensive solution to things like prescriptions, glasses, other extended health services like massages and chiropractors. Most of this stuff is not covered by government health care plans in Canada. Similar to Policy Me's term life insurance that we've told you about before on Canada Land, health and dental insurance is simple and affordable insurance. It's really easy to get started with. There are no lengthy forms, no medical exams. Coverage is guaranteed. Look, if you need to go see a dentist or you need like a therapeutic massage, do not let the fear of the costs get in the way of your health. Head to PolicyMe.com and secure your health and dental coverage in just five minutes. No medical questions will be asked. That's P-O-L-I-C-Y-M-E.com, PolicyMe.com. Go check it out. You cannot take responsibility for the actions of people who are throwing bricks and firing guns, that is understandable. But there are things that happen in Israel that Israel is responsible for that affect this. This is a bit of a complicated question, but I want to ask you about a letter that was sent by the head of the Shin Bet, Israel's security agency, Ronan Barr, a letter sent to Prime Minister Netanyahu and members of the cabinet, and it was a letter about Jewish terrorism. Those were his words. He called it Jewish terrorism in the West Bank. And what he said was that nothing is being done to stop this. Nothing is being done to stop the set of violence in the West Bank. And he wrote to the Prime Minister that if no action is taken, this violence will lead to global delegitimization and much bloodshed, and will be a great stain on Judaism and on all of us. He did not say this would be a great stain on the Israeli military or the Israeli government or Israelis. He said that if we don't do something to stop Jewish terrorism, this will be a stain on Jews around the world. As far as I can tell, the Prime Minister did not heed this warning, and nothing has been done to stop the violence as far as I can tell, which the Israeli military itself, one act of violence in the West Bank to the Israeli military itself, called it a pogrom. So according to your own head of security, the head of the Shin Bet, Israel is delegitimizing Jews around the world and staining the reputation of Jews. And yet, here you are telling me that anti-Semitism in Canada is something that you stand against and are doing everything you can to stop. Is that not a contradiction? I failed to see contradiction here. I failed to see the relationship between those two, but let's talk about what's going on in Israel and the West Bank, and the letter by Wunanbao. Wunanbao didn't write it on a personal note. He wrote it professionally because Israel's security organization has been following what's going on in the West Bank from the Jewish side because it's a source of threat. Sorry, you know the word, but I can provide you information about what actions, legal actions were taken against all these extremists and suspected terrorists, whether it's administrative detention and any other steps that they've been taking against them, to make sure that they will not be able to pursue any plans that they may have. You're saying that there is a police response to the Jewish terrorists? Yes, of course. To the health of the... Police, military, security... Because it's recently been reported that you can't even make a 911 call in the West Bank right now, that no one will respond. The Israeli security forces, whether it's the military, the police, or the intelligence organizations, are on top of that all the time. Whether sufficient action has been taken, that's something that you have to see a case by case, but let's be very clear here. When it looked at a case, it was looked at historically by a journalist who said that there is a system within Israel to ignore these things. Israel is a democracy, a very strong and solid democracy, and from the present to the Prime Minister to the government, everybody have condemned this very clearly. Any kind of action, any violent action, not just terrorism, which is the worst part, but any kind of action that was taken by those extremists was condemned and police is acting on it. You can say it's not enough. You can say that there are some opinions that descend from it and publishing a letter. That's one of the ways to publish a letter from the Shin Bet. It's not the only one. I'll give you another example here, if that one didn't make the point. No, I want you to listen to my point. My point being that Israel is a democracy, and Israel has all the tools to handle these issues and these cases. When there is criticism about Israel on that, it's fair, it's fine. I can provide you with information to contradict that, and you may still hold your opinion, and that is fine. I'm presenting you the opinion of the head of the Shin Bet. We have to remember one thing, that in this open society that Israel is, we have some opinions, we have some people who go, who cross the line, who are criminals, who are terrorists, and do things that they shouldn't be doing. But we are aware, and we have the legislation, and we have the tools to combat that and to make sure that those people are not able to execute their plans. I'm sorry, I have to challenge the notion that this is just a criminal element. It's not just the Shin Bet. The Israeli military has warned the Israeli government that policy in the West Bank is driving Palestinians towards a third Intifada. This was the military itself saying, if we keep the economic sanctions up, if we do not let them come work, if there are raids every night, if there are pogroms, please let me finish. This is the military warning your government hears. I want to tell you why this relates to me, and why this relates to Canada. It's the broader point that I want to ask you about because this is a warning from the military that Palestinians are being driven towards Intifada. What does the Israeli government do amid that warning? Minister Ben-Gvir visits one of the holiest sites in Islam, the Temple Mount, and leads Jewish prayers. This is not subtle. This is a provocation. This is daring Palestinians towards Intifada. I walk down the street, and I hear protesters in Toronto saying, "Globalize the Intifada. Globalize the Intifada." Mr. Ambassador, there's every reason to believe that if Israel does push the Palestinians towards a third Intifada, it will not just be Israelis who are targeted. It will be Canadians as well. Jews around the world, non-Jews around the world will die if this Intifada is declared. Why is the Israeli government ignoring warnings from its own military? It does seem as if the government is peddled to the metal pushing towards conflict in the West Bank, pushing towards Intifada. Why would we support that? You have to understand one thing. Israel is fighting a war right now. On the people on the West Bank, 60-70% of them support Hamas. I don't think that you'll mention that. I don't think that you'll mention that the Palestinian Authority, which was through agreement between Israel and them, were responsible for security. I'd able to mitigate the flow of arms and bombs coming in from Iran into the West Bank. They are not acting on it. The city of Tulkaram of Janin of Nablus are centers for terrorist organizations that have been shooting mortars into Israel. I don't think that anybody reports that anybody knows about that. Nobody thinks about them shooting directly into Israeli villages. Nobody would know about that shooting into a girl's sleeping room. My point being is that we are fighting an existential war right now. But are you at war with the West Bank? We are at war with terrorists on the West Bank that are waiting and are actually preparing to explode car bombs inside Israel. And we've been able to stop that on several cases, several occasions. So sometimes, you know, there is this Israeli Sateric Freim Kishon who said at some point, we'll only have the sympathy of the world once they throw us into the sea. Then we'll have the sympathy. Listen, guys, I have to tell you something. You have to remember that on the West Bank, there is no real authority. There is no government. There is no real policing. There is no real serious security enforcement agency that does anything. And so we have to do it. We would have loved the Palestinians to do that. You know that Palestinians and Israeli used to do together security controls until Palestinians started shooting their Israeli counterparts? Then it stopped. So if you have this kind of an idea that, you know, it's just because Israeli government's policy, that Palestinians turn against Israel, you have to think twice. When you look at the schoolbooks, somebody your age, when he went to kindergarten, what he did was walk over an Israeli flag. And on his whatever holiday that he had a costume, he would take a rifle and say, "I'm going to be a Shahid." And every mother would tell him, "I wish you were a Shahid, and I will sacrifice you." And this is the environment where they're growing. So you cannot be surprised that nowadays on the Palestinian side, there are no people, no real leaders who will say, "We want to live in peace with Israel." And you will say, "Yes, it's because Israel's policy." Well, we've been at a different place. Don't assume you know what I'll say. No, but the public. And so the issue that we are looking at is something very, very significant. Blaming the Israeli government for the Palestinians' attack against Israel is a little bit far-fetched when you understand that where they come from is when you look at the concentration of tourism cells and you see the motivation and you see the preachers and you see what's happening on universities on the West Bank, you understand that the motivation of a very big group of the population is not to allow Israel to exist. I don't think that my question is blamed Israel for that at all. I think my questions were of the nature of why is Israel escalating in an area where it has been warned that it will be degrading and staining the reputation of Jews around the world and it will be prompting the Third Intifada if it continues and Intifada that will affect people around the world. And this takes me to this question because you say that Israel relies on the support of Canadians and Canadian Jews specifically. Is that support a blank check? Never a blank check. There is no blank check here. There is an agreement between Israel and the Aspira. That agreement says Israel is the safe home of the Jewish people around the world. People in the Aspira, you do whatever you can to support the state of Israel. You'll go and visit, you'll send your kids to study there, but if your Jewish identity is such, you see that Israel is a part of your life and part of your identity and you find your way to connect with that country. So there is a sort of a link. We don't take anything for granted. We don't take any donation for granted. We don't take Israel for granted. We don't take our borders for granted. We don't take anything for granted. We fought for everything we had because this is our ancestral land and this is the land that belongs to the Jewish people. So no, there is no blank check, but there is also another part of it and that's the Jewish community also around the world. We'll have some criticism about what's going on in Israel. And some people in Israel will say, well, if they are not living here, they don't have a right to have that criticism. This is another reason why I'm here. Do you agree with that? I am here to take that criticism, to engage in that discussion, to convey to Israel, to make people understand in Israel that the Jewish community is concerned about Israel, whether it's politically, the judicial reforms or it's security-wise because of the war, that all of that is conveyed to Israel. That's the part of the deal. So it's a two-way thing. In Israel, it is possible for hundreds of thousands of people to take to the streets and demand an end to the war in Gaza, to demand an end to your current government. There is a difference between Israel and the Israeli government. Nobody accuses those Israelis of being anti-Zionists. They are Zionists against Netanyahu. Some of them are Zionists against the war. How long before you see a similar movement around the world? I can't imagine Jews around the world turning their backs on Israel. This is where our families live. It would be like saying that your mother shouldn't live in her home. But support for the Netanyahu government among Jews around the world and among Jews in Canada is demonstrably declining. How long before that distinction becomes an important one to people who no longer wish to bear the brunt or be blamed for what the Netanyahu government is doing? I haven't seen any Jew, any organization, any movement that stands up now for the Jewish community, saying anything about their support for the Netanyahu government. They all say just one, three words. An Israel, hai. You know what that means. It means the people. The people of Israel live. Because they all understand that what we are, the situation that we are at right now is existential for the Jewish people. So the internal strife that exists in Israel between those who support the government and those who don't, between those who want the release of the hostages immediately now have any kind of a deal and those who say no, let's wait. That does not resonate anywhere among the Jewish communities around the world because for them it's different. For them it's an existential battle that Israel is waging and they are waging. Oh, there is a war going on here in Canada as well. For the Jewish communities they feel that they are under war. And just last Holocaust Remembrance Day. I remember Jewish grandmother saying, her grandson wanted to go to Israel to fight. I said, no, you should stay here. You have a war to fight here. That's antisemitism. So the distinction is not made here. When it comes to the Jewish people, the homeland of the Jewish people, being attacked on seven fronts, I think that all of us want just one thing to make sure that Amistra al-Hai, nothing beyond that. I'm sure the time will come when people will voice their disagreement with the government and say, among the Jewish community will say, go and some will say. You're saying this is an internal conversation for us to have in private. Our internal private conversations are being dragged out into the open. Our identities are being dragged out into the public square. I think there's a time when Jews in the Diaspora did not feel entitled to be as critical about Israeli policy. But when Israeli policy is meeting us at our doorsteps, I think that there's a right to have this conversation out in the open. And I think that to demand solidarity until we get through this, well, I don't know when this ends. I'm not demanding anything. And I invite everybody, anybody to be critical and to voice it and to, as I said, I'm open to engage in every kind of conversation. There is nothing private about it. I'm just saying that what I'm experiencing is the overall overriding majority of the Jewish people, communities, and individuals I'm meeting only want to make one thing sure, and that is that Amistra al-Hai, that the people of Israel live, that the state of Israel will continue to thrive. They are not in now to speak about this government or another government. I've asked about Jewish Canadians. I want to ask about some other Canadians. There are Palestinian Canadians, and they're worried about their families. And a Canadian value, I think, that is very commonly held, is that this is a safe place for people in trouble. And I think it's that principle that guided our government in declaring that they would issue 5,000 visas to Gazans to get them out of trouble, to get them out of harm's way. But in order for them to actually get those visas, they have to get entrance to Egypt for security clearance. They can't get out, because Israel won't let them. Kogat, the coordination of government activities in the territories, will not allow them passage so that they can come to Canada and be reunited with their families and get away from this war. Why won't you let those Gazans go into Egypt for security clearance so that their lives could be saved? We'll have to check your data, because with the Ministry of Trade and Immigration here, they'll tell you that a few hundred already left, you'll have to mention, when you ask the question, that the rougher crossing is being shut completely. They're not Canadians, by the way, they're Palestinians that may have direct families here. But they are not specifically targeted. There is nothing against Canada or Canadians or Palestinians in that sense. The only thing we know is that the rougher crossing was used by Hamas to smuggle in weapons and maybe smuggle hostages or others out. So, until we find a solution for this issue, how we maintain this crossing, it's closed. Well, there are Canadians in Lebanon, tens of thousands of them. And Melanesha Ali, as asked Israel for a temporary ceasefire, you've said no. There was an overriding request from countries around the world, that there should be a ceasefire, that's what she said in the United Nations. We understand it, we respect that. And our response is that we cannot ceasefire while Hezbollah is continuing to fight rockets and missiles into Israel without discrimination into civilian populated areas. We have a war to fight against this organization that has been there, that has been building up for years, for tens of years, for one purpose, one purpose only, to be able to deter Israel from attacking Iran. They have been shooting into Israel, they have killed 48 Israelis up until now, including 12 children playing football, soccer, in much less chance. They have been destroying hundreds and hundreds of homes, they have been shooting indiscriminately into Israel, and they continue to threaten the north of Israel. Israel is not the Lebanese people, it's not the Christian Lebanese. If I may finish, Israel's objective, fourth objective in this war, is to make sure that the inhabitants of the northern part of Israel can return safely to their homes. And that is not possible as long as Hezbollah continues to shoot directly and destroy those homes. And so we will not seize until that goal has been reached. We have no business in conquering Lebanon or doing anything, we decide to make sure to take away that threat. And if you ask about the Lebanese government, I would ask you where there has been Canada or the Lebanese government, in the other nations for 20-something years, about implementing Security Council Resolution 1701 and My 559, which calls for the retreat of all these militias, Hezbollah, and the disarming of this whole perimeter or this whole strip of land to the northern part of the border for 10 kilometers. Where were the calls for ceasefire when Hezbollah killed 12 children? Where were the calls for ceasefire when Hezbollah on October 8th, voluntarily decided to attack Israel out of their own will? There was no provocation, there was nothing there. We have actually retreated into the international border line many years ago as acknowledged by the United Nations, but there is no mention of that. So only when there is some kind of this double standard, Israel is all of a sudden asked to seize fire. So if we stop fire, it will only mean that Hezbollah can rearm themselves and continue to shoot into Israel. It would make no sense. Hezbollah is not a member of the United Nations. Hezbollah will not go to court. There is no policeman that can't do Hezbollah. Listen, there is an agreement, stop firing. They don't care about it, so when we are under attack, why should we seize fire? What sense would it make if somebody attacks you? And he'll tell you, now let's have a seize fire. Would you agree? This is a terrible situation. It's a terrible situation and it's a complicated situation. But if the question is, what if anything is Israel doing to help or allow Canadians and Lebanon exit amid this terrible situation? I think the answer is, nothing is being done. What would you expect me to tell you? There is nothing that Israel does at the moment to inhibit anybody from leaving the country. Foreign interference has been a huge issue in Canada this past year, and on almost a daily basis, when I report about anti-Semitism, I face an allegation, well, obviously you work for Israel. Obviously you're a conspirator, a collaborator with the Israeli state. I'm accused of being some sort of a secret agent, and it also evokes an anti-Semitic trope that Jews control the media and conspire with each other. When your office reached out, I was told that you would welcome a chance to meet with me to discuss collaboration. Mr. Ambassador, I'm accused of being an Israeli collaborator every day. I responded instead, I said, let's have an interview. If I had responded, I would love to collaborate with Israel. What would have happened next? The collaboration is regarding having an opportunity to talk with us and to hear our opinion. That's kind of collaboration. If that's collaboration, then you're guilty, but that's where it ends. There is nothing else behind that, and the idea is... Please be careful. I don't think you understand. If it was true that I agreed to collaborate with Israel, that's it. I don't think that... I mean, we never met before, and there is nothing behind it. The whole point is really that we want to bring our points across. We want people to listen, to ask tough questions, sometimes questions that are borderline fair or not, but that's the way it is. It's up to you. That's the whole point. Nothing beyond that. Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much. Thank you. [whistling] A quick note before we go. My colleagues, Shari Sutra and Nora Azreya have written a fact-check companion piece to this interview, adding context to much of what was discussed. You can read that now on our website, CanadaLand.com. [music] That's your Canada Land episode for this Monday. I hope you enjoyed it. Join us tomorrow on our politics edition right here, where host Nora Azreya looks at Canada's military. Does it matter that we barely have one? Look, if you want to talk to me about what you heard today, you can email me at jessie@canadaland.com. I read everything that you send. Our senior producer is Bruce Thorsen, audio production and editing from Tristan Capicone. Sam Conert landed an extra set of hands to production this week. Max Collins is our production manager. Our theme music is by so-called. This episode of Canada Land is brought to you by supporters Samson Graham, Jane Hope and Jack Denham. You can become a supporter, too. I think you should. I think that we cover things differently here at Canada Land, and I think that when we get a chance to do interviews, we get things out of them and you learn things that you would not know otherwise. I think that we improve your understanding of the world, and we really do live to inform you, and I think you should support that. If you become a supporter, we have many, many perks. 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