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Why Caitlin Clark Will Make Rogers Feel Stupid

Rogers buys Bell share of Maple Leaf Sports Entertainment for 4.7 billion–but how Ed Rogers’ power play whiffed on the Caitlin Clark era.


Plus, the most 90s baby ever and the unlikely return of Vice Magazine.


Host: Jesse Brown

Credits: James Nicholson (Producer), Caleb Thompson (Audio Editor and Technical Producer), max collins (Production Manager), Jesse Brown (Editor)

Guest: Rahim Mohamed


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Broadcast on:
04 Oct 2024
Audio Format:
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(whistling) - Canada Land, funded by you. (upbeat music) - I'm Jesse Brown, and today we're talking shit about the news. Rahim Mohammed will be sports-plaining to me the sale of MLSE, may believe sports entertainment, I'm told, sold by Bell to Rogers. This is massive media news, so I do need to try to work past my anti-sports ball affectations and try to understand it. Luckily, as a pallet cleanser, we will also touch on a scientific experiment to create the human personification of the 90s, plus the shocking return of print media. - This is crazy, this can't be true. I mean, it's not within the realm of possibilities, it's just to seem more like out of a movie than reality. - Yes, Vice Magazine is back. Wait for that. (upbeat music) - Canada Land is brought to you by CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health. We're trying out something that we have not done before. Later in this episode, you will hear me speak to Chris Cole, a two-time cross-country cyclist and a filmmaker who has experienced mental illness and addiction himself. He's gonna share his story, and he's gonna talk about how resources like CAMH have helped him and many others like him to manage their mental health. Keep an air out for that. And listen, if what Chris has to say later on means something to you, if his story moves you at all, please consider donating. Visit CAMH.ca/CanadaLand. One more time, c-a-m-h.ca/CanadaLand. This episode's brought to you by Squarespace. Listen, you still need a website. Talking to you, buddy, and no, social media is not enough. It's not even fun anymore. The web is where it's at still. Squarespace Design Intelligence makes it easy to build a beautiful, personalized website tailored to your unique needs. And with Squarespace payments, you can start selling a product or service with just a few clicks. Check out squarespace.com/CanadaLand for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use CanadaLand. That's the code CanadaLand to save 10% off of your first purchase of a website or domain. Rahim Muhammad, columnist for The National Post, welcome back to the show. - Thank you for having me, it's great to be back. - A major sale, a major deal in the sports world. - Bell, BCE has sold its stake in Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment to Rogers for $4.7 billion. - It always felt a little strange that two competitors in the telecom space would team up, but now that won't be an issue. My immediate reaction was it's good to see the little guy get ahead, you know? - Rogers, the company, are now the most powerful sports owners, basically in North America. - And Edward Rogers, the executive chair of Rogers, says winning is everything for fans, and that's why we are committed to investing to bring more championships to Canada. - You know Rahim, I often hear people ask, what the hell would it take for you to shut up and let the guests talk? And I think we have an answer here. If we're talking about sports, I think I can do it. Can you run me through what happened in Canadian sports? - Sure, can I do so via Simpson's analogy? You know the Simpsons, right? Are you fluent in Simpson's references? - Oh Rahim, you've met me at my level, thank you. - Okay, so do you remember the episode where Homer Simpson is working for that supervillain, Hank Scorpio, who's a supervillain, but he actually happens to be a decent boss. - How are you? - Scorpio. - Wow, my boss. - Don't comment that word. I don't like things that elevate me above the other people. I'm just like you. Oh sure, I come later in the day, I get paid a lot more and I take longer vacations, but I don't like the word boss. - Excellent, excellent episode, total classic. - I think Hank Scorpio, up there with Frank Rhimes, I think they're one and two greatest one-offs of all time, but Homer tells Hank. - Someday I liked on the Dallas Cowboys. - I bet people laughed at you when you told him that dream. - Yeah. - Homer, don't give up. - Hank is unable to deliver the Dallas Cowboys. - It's not the Dallas Cowboys, but it's a start. Drop me a line if you're on the East Coast, Hank Scorpio. - Oh, the Denver Broncos. - So I feel like Rogers is sort of in a similar position to Homer in that they get to dominate a sports market, but that sports market happens to be Toronto. So the Leafs, as we know, they're in a 50-some-odd year drought. The Blue Jays haven't really been relevant since the 1990s, unless you count the Joey Bats era, which I personally don't, it's championship or bust. The Raptors won one championship, but that was very much a quirk. One, the Golden State Warriors were hobbled with injury. It was basically just Steph Curry and the Walking Wounded. Two, Kwai Leonard actually getting traded from the San Antonio Spurs to the Toronto Raptors, as a punishment. They basically said, "Okay, you wanna be traded?" We're gonna trade you to the one place in the league with igloos and sled dogs. So Kwai Leonard, the superstar, gets traded to Toronto as punishment. You have this alchemy where he's able to lead them to a championship, he's at his prime at the time. So if I'm Rogers, I guess I control all of the Toronto sports market, I control all professional franchises in Toronto, but at the same time, it's Toronto. I think owning the Denver Broncos is pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Well, explain to me why it isn't. Hmm, you just don't understand football, Marge. So here you have Rogers becoming like one of the most expansive sports owners in the world, but it's all crap. Is that the story here? Pretty much. So Canadian markets are playing at a disadvantage versus American markets because, one, you know, they're paying their players in American dollars and bringing in revenue mostly in Canadian dollars. The Canadian dollar, I believe, is trading at about 74, 75 cents US. They're at a disadvantage in that respect. And two, it's hard to, Toronto is a tough sell for elite athletes. You know, you have snow on the ground, six months of the year, it's not a no offense, but particularly beautiful city. How dare you, sir? So in terms of those elite free agents, you're trying to land. Show Hyotani, for example. You know, remember there was that tease, that Otani just might sign with the Toronto Blue Jays. Hottest free agent at the time in Major League Baseball. You know, Toronto is a very tough sell. I'm still waiting for his plane. You were on Twitter that one day where they had Otani, all of his different flight routes. So yeah, I think if winning's gonna be the metrics, that's gonna be a very difficult thing for Rogers to deliver on with the number of disadvantages Canadian franchises have. These are the American ones, not just in baseball and basketball where you'd expect, but also in the NHL. If I'm someone like John Tavares, who's gone to, you know, my hometown Toronto Maple Leafs, just to get fill agreed and crucified for four or five seasons, you know, I'm not thrilled. I'm not thrilled if I'm Mitch Marner, you know, who's in a tax beef now with the Canadian revenue agency. So even for Canadian players, you know, the Leafs are probably not as attractive a destination as playing in sunny Florida or, you know, as playing in sunny Las Vegas or some of the really big American markets. And I don't think even with Rogers now unifying control and talking a big game about making Toronto a sports Mecca and powerhouse. I don't think that's gonna move the needle. - Is one of the factors into why these teams are so crappy in Toronto that they can be? Like that people will still keep coming in, spending a lot of money to watch sports and it doesn't matter if a team wins or not? - Sure, and I would say that that's especially the case with the Toronto Maple Leafs. So in the greater Toronto area, I don't have the exact population demographics, but I believe it's the fourth largest metro area in North America, you know, behind New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago. You look at Major League Baseball, Chicago has two teams, New York has two teams, Los Angeles has two teams. So now Toronto probably couldn't support a second baseball team, but if you look at the market for hockey, you have probably twice as many fans in the greater Toronto area, you know, you bring in Hamilton, you bring in Brampton, you bring in all the communities, you know, Mark and Vaughn, all the communities around Toronto, as you do in some of those major American markets, but you still have one franchise. So the Maple Leafs will dominate that market and without a second franchise in the greater Toronto area, they can be literally mediocre for over 50 years. They can lose a game to a Zamboni driver in Carolina, and that's not going to matter because they're the only game in town. - There's something so perfectly Canadian about this, just relating to things I know more about, like to have the biggest of something in the world and maybe like, not the worst, but like really middling. When the LCBA was one of the biggest purchasers of wine and spirits in the world, and everything's really expensive and the selection's usually not great, you know? Like our telcos are some of the most profitable telcos in the world and the service is terrible. Our grocery chains in Canada, like I guess they're sort of like impressive in their scale. These are massive companies that span like, grocery to pharmacy to all sorts of services. I mean, that's a certain kind of achievement. And yet it's not one we're very proud of. We kind of hate them. - One way I like to describe Canada is three large telcos in a trench coat. It is funny how we have these powerhouses that seem to prioritize their own profits and not so much customer service. And it doesn't feel like having these juggernauts that we have the level of service. You'd think so if we have, you know, one of the world's largest telecom conglomerates. It doesn't feel like that. So you and I, this is breaking the fourth wall, but our internet in this discussion has been going in and out the entire time when the heart of Rogers Country, that sort of thing wouldn't be happening. So like you said, it seems uniquely Canadian to have, I guess, mediocrity at scale. - Yeah, I'm in Ottawa near you with Hotel Wi-Fi. And like you say, it's been challenging. Yeah, it's like epic mediocrity, gargantuan, like large, yeah, mediocrity at scale. I think we've got a new slogan for Canada. Stick around everybody. We're gonna talk about how this sale could radically transform the Canadian media landscape. And we'll talk about the Toronto sporting squadron that Rahim thinks is being overlooked in all this. - This episode is brought to you by Cam H, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health. I've been talking to Chris Call, a mental health advocate for Cam H. We're talking about his personal experiences with mental illness and addiction. Chris's addiction began after the passing of his dad. - He was diagnosed Huntington's disease and he ended up losing his job and declining very quickly. One day I, yeah, I found him passed away in a hotel room and then that just broke me. I didn't know how to handle that. I started using opioids to block out the emotional trauma and pain of it all. That turned into an eight and a half year journey in and of itself through opioid addiction. - Chris was able to stop using opioids and now he works with Cam H to help other people who are experiencing mental illness and addiction. The world needs advocates like Chris, especially as we sit in the middle of a global mental health crisis. Mental health needs have never been greater. The mental health and addiction system or even the healthcare system of the whole is certainly struggling at the moment but everyone's doing the best they can. I think Cam H is paving a path for a lot of the mental health and addictions, opponents of healthcare. - Cam H is building better mental healthcare for everyone to ensure that no one is left behind but they need your support to keep doing that good work. To hear more stories of hope like Chris's and to donate, visit camh.ca/canidoland. That's camh.ca/canidoland. - This episode is brought to you by Policy Me. Raheem, you've done a lot of freelance media work, correct? - Yep, I have. - I've been there, you do not get benefits. I was freelancing without benefits. It is an unpleasant feeling to be out there without a net. The problem when you don't have benefits is that you often have to weigh medical care that you might need against the cost of getting those services. Your health should not be part of a financial calculation but without benefits, the expenses can really add up. Thankfully Policy Me has a solution for people who are self-employed. Freelancers, retired folks, anyone who doesn't have benefits included in their job. Policy Me's new health and dental insurance can help protect families from out-of-pocket medical costs by providing comprehensive and affordable coverage for prescription drugs, dental and vision care, other extended health services like massages and chiropractors. The best part about Policy Me is that the setup is really fast and straightforward. There is no lengthy forms to fill out, no medical exams, coverage is guaranteed. Here's how to do it. Head to policyme.com and secure your health and dental coverage in just five minutes. No medical questions needed. That's P-O-L-I-C-Y-M-E.com. Go check it out. This episode is brought to everybody by Crow's Theater. Rahim, stop me if you've already heard me talking about this. Don't stop me 'cause we already did talk about this. But I have a new favorite play and I mentioned it to you on the last episode of this show. Do you remember the name of that play? I remember it's like Aaron Sorkin but set in a different time period. That's a good save because you do not remember the title of the play at all. I do not. It's Rosmer's home, Rosmer's home. You remembered something about what I said but not the name of the play which is understandable 'cause Rosmer's home. Are you gonna remember this listener? Yes, now that I've instructed you to, I've just worked my magic on you and now you can't forget Rosmer's home advertising works. I checked this out and I was really glad to watch something really smart and to watch something that was performed at a very high level. It's an Ibsen play and it's very popular. They've held it over so you can still catch it until October 11th but then poof, it disappears. Check it out. I think you will be pleased if you do so. The show plays nightly from Tuesday to Saturday and there are matinees playing this weekend both Saturday and Sunday. Don't miss out. Enter the world of Rosmer's home on stage until October 11th only. Buy your tickets today at crowstheatre.com. That's crowstheatre, T-H-E-A-T-R-E.com. The media angle of this is interesting to me. Bell CTV continuing to divest from content, you know? Like they're keeping a toe in, they're keeping TSN and they're keeping half of the broadcasting rights to Leaf and Raptors games for the next 20 years but this is a major divestment from their media offerings as their stock price craters and not to get all PR polyevil about it but yeah, they're protecting their dividend. They're just be like stripping whatever they can to keep that dividend as high and juicy as it's been. And I don't know, it just seems like between CTV news and this, they're just not interested in, they don't wanna have a relationship with us anymore. It's anything but the company that we get our internet service from I guess. But Rogers, I guess they're on a growth spurt. All of that like family drama with Rogers, I guess maybe the new generation of like, did Kendall win, did Shiv win, did Roman, who is controlling Roy Star? - You're both full of shit and you came here to fuck me behind my back and you're ghouls and you're disgusted. - Sorry, whoops. - Rogers seems to be buying lots of things. They took over Shaw and now they're buying this. Is the new generation of Rogers actually maybe doing something right? - So I mean, one thing I'll say with, and I can't speak to the kind of economies of scale or the landscape of the broadcasting sector or the multimedia sector in Canada, but when you're getting into something like professional sports, a lot of the time it's not about profits, it's about passion and ego. So for a guy like Mark Cuban, who recently I believe sold his majority stake, but is still holding on to a minority of the Dallas Mavericks, having a professional sports franchise isn't so much a prudent business decision or investment decision, but rather a passion project. He loves being at the game. He loves sort of jogging with the press after the game, you know, when they've won, when they've lost, giving a reaction. - First reaction, we've got the shot of you reacting on the phone and seeing it. First reaction and thought, when you learn that the season's been suspended. This is crazy, this can't be true. I mean, it's not within the realm of possibilities, it's just to seem more like out of a movie than reality. - So someone like Edward Rogers, I think it's difficult for you and I to imagine having that level of wealth and imagine what it would take to excite someone like Edward Rogers. So I really think it's the thrill of owning a sport team and the thrill of potentially bringing a championship to Toronto that's driving him rather than any sort of business fundamentals. So I think sports franchises are interesting that way and owning them seems to be a way for the Uber rich to have fun and to let off a bit of steam. - Rahim, is that all that I need to know? Are there parts of the story that people are missing? - So I think a piece that a lot of reports have missed and I think something that could be a sleeper of the deal is it involves a WNBA franchise that will be debuting in Toronto two years from now. So under this deal, Toronto businessman Larry Tan and Mom will have the entirety of the WNBA franchise under Kilmer's sports. I believe he bought it for about $50 million, which your typical NBA franchise is going for well in the billion these days. So a 50 million acquisition doesn't look that bad. And one thing I'll say about women's basketball of the professional sports. And I think sports are fundamentally about star power of the professional sports. Women's basketball is the only one right now that I can point to that has a generational talent who's either in her prime or entering her prime. I think Caitlyn Clark, Caitlyn Clark of the Indiana fever. She's changed the game. She's changed the way we wanna play basketball. There's this interesting interconnection between dads who take their daughters to watch Caitlyn Clark play basketball and dads who take their daughters to Taylor Swift concerts. So she's got the Swifties in her pocket. This was her rookie season. Viewership of the WNBA has increased 300%. Mostly on the back of Caitlyn Clark. She's only gonna be getting better two years from now. So potentially Toronto will be entering the WNBA just as this crop of new talent led by Caitlyn Clark starts to enter their prime. And that could be an asset that Rogers looks back on and says, why didn't we grab that when we had a chance when the WNBA was just getting hot? I really think that's a part of the deal people aren't paying attention to. The WNBA franchise in Toronto could be the sleeper, particularly if the WNBA continues on its path of momentum that we've seen this season. - I have been furiously taking notes so that I could hold my own and make friends with other men at the airport bar when they ask me what the score is or other sports related questions. Thank you, Rahim. Rahim, we wanna make sure that people don't miss news stories that they might otherwise miss. So we take a bit of time to duly note them. You have something to duly note today. - Sure, the most 90s baby in existence was born early this month. A young Ronan Walker Cobain Hawk was born on September the 17th to parents Francis Bean Cobain and Riley Hawk. If those surname sounds familiar, that is the daughter of Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love and the son of Tony Hawk. So I'd really love to see if that kid did a wheelie out of his mom's womb or he's born with acid wash jeans. All I can say is as a kid who grew up in the mid to late 1990s, I can't think of a more emblematic birth of our period of time and that you have sort of grunge music and skateboarding coming together to form this human being, which is a very, one reminds me of how old I'm getting, reminds me of how long ago grunge and skateboarding as pop culture phenomena were, but also fills me with excitement and one of the most exciting things about this. As you may know, Dave Grohl recently had a daughter or a love child outside of his marriage. So now you have a Tony Hawk Kurt Cobain grandson and Dave Grohl's daughter who could potentially be the building blocks of a third generation of grunge rock and skateboarding supremacy. - Juicy stuff, duly noted. I wanna duly note something, Vice magazine, it still exists in some form. There is still a vice media and there is going to be a vice magazine. I remember the first vice magazine when it went from newsprint to glossy. It's turning 30 next month, the company, and they have announced we are bringing back Vice magazine in all its sprawling and salacious glory with four print issues a year. Well, glory be. Head to vice.com to find out more and join the subscription wait list. I remember when they used to tell you, do not subscribe to this magazine. We don't want your subscription. This in turn has brought forth some laid off Vice journalists and former Vice journalists. Jake Adelstein tweets, I am really excited about this and I would love to write for you guys again if you would just pay me the $9,000 Vice News Osmay. Drew Mallard says, you have owed me a thousand bucks since the spring of 2023. I think I've got them both beat. Gavin Osmay 50 bucks from an article that I wrote in there, I think second glossy magazine. So there you have it. Vice magazine returns. Writers are feeling pissed off in demanding money. Same as it ever was. - Duly noted. - Everybody, stay tuned for more stories that we're following this week. But first, let's say goodbye to our co-host, Reheem Muhammad. I know that people can find you on Twitter at RMOHAD_YOW, Y-O-W. - YOW is in Ottawa. I guess we do things by airport codes. I actually have a poll question about the most generational sport talent out there. Currently, Kaitlyn Clark of the Indiana fever is leading up all. So if you want to vote in that poll, check me out on Twitter. - But where can they read your work? - You can read my work at the national post at nationalpost.com. I typically file three or four stories per week, mostly focusing on relationships between the federal government in Western Canada with an emphasis on Alberta and Saskatchewan, and there's been no shortage of fireworks in that respective late. - Reheem Muhammad is a journalist in your neighborhood. Go read 'em. - All right, here are some more stories that our newsroom has been following this week. Of course, we are keeping an eye on what is happening in the Middle East, the situation in Israel, and in Gaza, and in Lebanon, and in the West Bank, and in Yemen, and in Iran, and on and on. Well, you can't really call this just like a foreign affairs story. It has a massive impact for many people here in Canada. And I have a list of questions for Israel, and Israel agreed to answer them. On Monday, I sit down with Israel's representative in Canada, Yidou Moed. This is not an episode you want to miss. Israel, the Canada Land interview, that's Monday. Then on our Tuesday politics edition, Newer, Israel will look at Canada's military in a world that is more volatile than ever. Canada has been neglecting and underfunding its military for years, I guess, on the assumption that we don't really matter, and maybe that's a good thing. But can we get by with that story? We're very much longer. There are very few people who even know about this stuff in Canada anymore. But on Canada Land, on Tuesday, guests David Puglese, one of the last best defense reporters in Canada, and Stephen M. Sademan, will be on the show to discuss. Finally, some news from the federal inquiry into foreign interference in Canada, revelations about the influence that India and China are having in our local media. Kind of a bombshell here. This is Globe and Mail report. The majority of local Chinese media has been influenced, if not outright controlled, by the CCP for years. That is what Victor Ho, the former editor-in-chief of Singtao newspaper, told the Hoag Inquiry, "We are going to be looking further into that." That's our show for today. Thank you for joining me. You can email me about it at jessie@canadaland.com. I read everything that you send. This episode is produced by James Nicholson with additional production by Caleb Thompson. Our production manager is Max Collins. I'm your host and Canada Land's editor. The music is by so-called syndication is by CFUV 101.9 FM in Victoria. Visit them online at CFUV.ca. Listen, I want to announce something registration is open for two Canada Labs workshops this fall. On October 17th, we're hosting The Promise of Audio, an afternoon of insightful sessions at Canada Land's Toronto studio, featuring journalists who work on the vanguard of audio. On November 1st, you can join the online podcast development and pitching workshop, learn how to develop podcasts, learn how to pitch podcasts. That's with Mia Lobel. As a veteran audio producer and the former vice president of content and production at Pushkin Industries, I know that Mia Lobel will lead you through how to craft a story or idea into a captivating podcast pitch. I wish people knew how to do this better. It is an art, you can learn it. This workshop is part of podcast pitch fest, an exciting program that Canada Land is offering in collaboration with Pandemic University. It is open for anyone to attend and it is free. Registration is free. Donations are encouraged with proceeds going to our friends at audio flux. We got links in the show notes. Learn more and register for these events. This is good stuff we're up to. This episode is brought to you by our supporters, Jesse Nunn, Liz Fletcher and Ben Boyes. Listen, we do a lot of stuff that I think is really valuable, not least of which is to make this podcast. Well, most of it is. Most of the resources go into making these shows, doing our original journalism, paying for good fact-checked analysis like this. If you value it, you gotta pay for it. It's the only way it keeps going. We rely on listeners like you to pay for the journalism that you consume. As a supporter, you'll get premium access to our shows ad-free, early releases, bonus content, exclusive newsletter, discounts on our merch, invites and tickets to our events. The reason to do this is to become a part of the solution to Canada's journalism crisis. You will be keeping our work free and accessible to everybody. Come join us now. Click on the link in your show notes or go to CanadaLand.com/join. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music included with Prime. Thank you for supporting Canada Land. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]