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(upbeat music) - Investing in ball dress, including risk of loss, zero account fees apply to retail brokerage accounts only, sell or assessment fee not included, a limited number of ETFs are subject to a transaction-based service fee of $100. See full list at Fidelity.com/com/commissions, Fidelity Broker Services LLC, member NYSE SIPC. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to Crime Capsule. I'm your host, Benjamin Morris. You know what, rewind the tape. Let me try that again. Let me offer everyone a special welcome back, as today is the official first episode of our fourth season of the show. Over the past few weeks since wrapping season three, we have had the pleasure of celebrating members of our community with bonus episodes featuring Sara Ferris, Bill Puffman and Jess Pollock. And just last week, a surprise guest appearance by yours truly on so much crime, so little time. Thank you, Jeff indeed, that was fun. It's been a blast, and we love to partner with others who are interested in historical research and good storytelling, especially when there's a bloody knife involved. So thanks to all for a great interlude. We're back in the saddle, and we're ready to ride. And we could not be more grateful to kick things off in season four with Justin Dombrowski, here to usher us into our annual autumn spooky season, with a tail sure to thrill you and chill you in equal measure. Now, I don't say that to hike Justin up. If you're a regular listener, you know that's not actually what we do here. Rather, the story that he's going to tell us is not about a sighting of a strange light in a darkened forest or an apparition in a forgotten corner of a lost building. No, the evil spirits in his tail are very real, very much flesh and blood, had names and occupations and addresses, and they haunted the city of Erie, Pennsylvania, where he calls home. That's what will kill you. It's a story about real monsters, not imagined ones, all told in his brand new book, Erie's great mausoleum mystery, ghouls, grave robbers, and extortion, which was published just a few weeks ago by the History Press. Justin, welcome to Chrome capsule. Thank you so much for joining us. - Thank you for having me. - We are thrilled to kick off our fourth season of the show, as well as spooky season with your book. And I just want us to start off with a bang. It was on the evening of February 8th, 1911, that a young woman named Amelia Hartwig saw something in a cemetery that no one should ever see. What was that? - Well, what Amelia Hartwig saw was that the doors of the Scott mausoleum, which has one of Erie, Pennsylvania's most famous and philanthropic families, the doors were a jar, the chain and lock they used to be on the doors was on the ground. And the horror that she saw inside was that the entire tomb on the interior had been desecrated with one of the bodies pulled from the tomb. - It had anything like this ever happened before in Erie's history? - I would say that Erie PA is really unique in that there is very illustrious history of criminal activity, but to this type of magnitude, nothing really happened on this scale of sensationalism and just total bizarness in Erie's history. Of course, this is a time period where wealthy families are victimized by mausoleum desecrations, which weren't unusual for the time period, but as far as Erie, it was a first. - Can you describe the Scott mausoleum for us so that we can kind of get a picture of what she was actually looking at as a very impressive structure, wasn't it? - Yeah, so the Scott mausoleum itself is very, it's very distinguishable from all the other monuments and I would say tombs that are in the Erie cemetery, which are quite extensive. It was built in 1889 at a cost back then of $35,000. It would cover, I think I want to say it covers about 1,000 square feet and it's capped at the top by a dome that's about 50 feet tall. It's built from a general design that the newspapers at the time said would rival those directed by Vanderbilt, Gould, and Stewart. There was no wood at all that was used in the construction of the mausoleum itself and it was mostly comprised of granite. The walls were made with rock face ashlar from the Hollowell Queries and it required about 500 tons and the interior, for example, had layers of granite slabs and it was pretty much elaborate for the time of the period. Now these solid bronze doors we had just spoke about a few minutes ago will cost at the time about $800. Just to give you a little bit of a rough idea how enamored and how illustrious the inside of this tomb would have been. - I mean, it sounds almost like a fortress. You know, with that kind of construction, with the weight, the gravity, that no expense was spared. And so for someone to not only have gained access to the interior, but also to have engaged in such senseless destruction of the interior must have come as a total shock, not just to Amelia Hartwig who found it, but to the family, to the investigators. What happened in those moments after it was discovered? - Well, after it was discovered, Ms. Hartwig and her female companion went to a nearby home that housed the superintendent of the cemetery. And what they had done is they had reached out to Annie Strong. Now the Scott Mausoleum housed members of her family, her maiden name was Scott. It's very easy to get the two tangled up. So if I do apologize, but what happened is they reached Annie and at her home in her mansion on the corner of 6th and Peach Street in downtown Erie, Pennsylvania, notified her that the Mausoleum had been broken into. Her husband, Charles Hammett Strong, who also comes from another extensive lineage of families related to Erie's history, immediately contacted the police. He got in touch with the chief of police, notified him about what was going on. Sorry, not the chief of police. He notified the detective on duty, requested that officers be sent to the cemetery, which they were. And thus began the investigation and immediately news of this occurrence spread like wildfire throughout the country. - Yeah, you know, grave robbing is an activity that historically has mostly been associated with archaeological sites, right? We think of sort of looting of ancient graves, whether it's in Peruvian Amazon or in the Bronze Age or Iron Age sites in Europe. Sometimes we think of grave robbing in the context of the early anatomical studies of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment eras when physicians or artists needed cadavers in order to be able to study them. And we actually gained some fairly significant medical advances, you know, through those illegal activities. There's a long history there. But in the modern era, you know, grave robbing takes on a very, very different tenor. It is vindictive. It is malicious. It is designed almost entirely to hurt, you know, to cause somebody grief and distress. And pain. So I want to come to the crime scene here in a moment, but just from your understanding, why would somebody do something like this in this moment in history? - So I would say that the motive behind a crime like this would be one to seek riches. Back then, wealthy individuals, when they were buried often, sometimes were buried with heirlooms and jewelry on it, which were quite expensive at the time. And as I explained, the inside of this interior, this mausoleum was pretty elaborate and extensively decorated. Ironically, there are details about the interior, the mausoleum that I am not allowed to reveal just because of the contract of the family itself. But I can say that it kind of begs to offer a description that normally I would say that the primary goal would be for theft. You would steal, you know, sometimes the, if a coffin was lined with gold on some extent, you know, that or going in and prying that. There was even some instances from the early 1900s of going in and stealing gold fillings, you know. And also, as you mentioned, still body parts as well. - Anything that could be detached from the body or a ring slipped off a finger or a pearl necklace that might have been buried, you know, or something, you know, a golden cup with a shroud, you know, that any number of things, right? - Right. - Let me ask you a little bit about the Scots and the strongs. You had mentioned that they were primarily industrialists. They were members of the highest level of society in that part of the state. They had connections all throughout the region and so forth, the business and industry. But interestingly, their reputation as citizens was really pretty good. I mean, they were very philanthropic. They had not engaged in massive acts of corruption or scandal to amass their wealth. It was all fairly hard, hard-earned, hard won. Can you get us kind of just a sense of the family that had this happen to them? - Sure. So starting off with the Scott family, that was, I would say, really most of the history with that revolves around Annie Strong's father, who is William Lawrence Scott. You know, he was from Washington, D.C. and he came to Erie when he was a young man, worked as a shipping clerk for one of a local businessman here by the name of Charles Reed. He then went on to form a partnership where he engaged in the coal and shipping industries and then eventually went on to become a railroad magnet, gradually building his empire. Now, William Scott's wife was Mary Matilda Tracy. She was a descendant, actually the granddaughter of Daniel Dobbins, Dobbins, who was a sailing master who oversaw the construction of ships committed by Oliver Hazard Perry, which were later famous for the Battle of Lake Erie in 1812. - Yeah, it's a great connection. I love that connection. - It is, and it really kind of elaborates in it and it kind of builds up this family hierarchy and Scott would go on to run for mayor. And, you know, at a time, he became one of the wealthiest men in America with his railroad partnership. And, you know, and then what happens is William Scott's daughter Annie Mary's Charles Hammett Strong in 1881 here in Erie. And at the time of their marriage, they were probably the wealthiest married young couple in America for a brief period of time. Both families came from the same social circles were talking to New York City, Washington, D.C., going as far as London, England. Now, the thing is, is that there was some up until the death of Annie Strong's father, William Scott, you know, he did engage in some shrewd activities as a businessman, some in which were frowned upon by the local press and papers, but, you know, after his passing for the most part, and Annie Strong and her husband, Charles, and he came from a long lineage of close descendants that were pivotal in Erie's history as well. - They both really engaged in a lot of, you know, activities and donating to the public, which were really, you know, to this day, still have an effect on our city's history and all that. - This mausoleum had been erected to contain the remains of several members of both sides of the family, including a young infant who had passed away, you know, in early childhood, there were some elderly relatives, you know, who had been buried there and so forth. And so the span of lifetimes that were desecrated in this act, I mean, it really was, it kind of caused grief at every end of the spectrum. I was wondering if you would read for us. There's a passage in your book, which I found just very evocative of the gravity of what had happened early on when the family finally visits the site and Charles Strong himself sort of describes what he found there. Would you just read that passage on page 43 for us? - Sure. It says, "My wife is of the opinion, "it was that of Miss mausoleum, "but I do not know it may have been any of the bodies. "The coffins were torn out of their metallic copper, riveted casings and the main plates removed. "The body which was stolen was lifted right out of that coffin, "which had been cemented in a metallic casket. "The site that met my eyes and those of my daughter "as we entered the tomb, I shall never forget. "We had hurried there in an automobile immediately "when we heard about the breaking into the crypt "early in the evening. "One of the bodies was lying half out of the coffin "where it had been dragged and left by the vandals. "It was all so horrible and gruesome. "I have as yet given no thought as to offering a reward. "I cannot say what I shall do about that "until I have discussed the situation with my wife again." - It's just a horrible, horrible scene to even imagine. So tell us, it is a crime scene. It very quickly becomes a source of intense interest by the Erie Police Department, but also certain individuals who have been privately contracted to begin compiling evidence and conducting an investigation. Of course, my favorite part in any crime scene whenever we examine them is when the bloodhounds show up. And Justin, I gotta say, you really delivered on the bloodhound front, not only do they show up, they stick around for a while, so kudos for that. But describe the actual scene from an evidentiary perspective for us. - From an evidentiary perspective, it was ironic because from the onset, the control of the investigation was not in the hands of the city of Erie Police Department. It was in the hands of the strong family, mainly Annie Strong, who directed the police what to do and not do. Obviously today you couldn't do that. You'd come under fire so quickly. But she ended up going later that night and inspecting the conditions of the tomb herself, ordered the police to maintain a constant 24-hour guard. And because the tomb involved the estate of her father, she had to reach out to those who dealt with his will, which were acquaintances and lawyers in New York who instructed and offered to employ private detectives of the Burns Agency, but they would not arrive as quickly as Annie Strong wanted them to. So she offered to employ private detectives from a agency out of Pittsburgh called the Perkins Detective Agency, which had worked on a prior case for her husband back in 1909. Other than that, the tomb was completely sealed until the detectives arrived. Nobody was allowed in or out. Police maintained shifts and kept an eye in case individuals would come back to try to further desecrate the tomb. Didn't happen. The only exciting event that happened in the hours after were some newspaper reporters who stumbled into the cemetery and happened to be caught in the act of trying to approach the tomb by policemen. - What were they, in that initial examination, what were they able to determine about the Vandals or how many there were? Or you mentioned there was kind of a telltale shoe print in the snow at one point. I mean, what did we kind of learn upfront? - What we kind of learned upfront, and there's quite a lot that, you know, especially from even this type of case, is that there was at least two, maybe three individuals. Footprints in the snow, which were so fresh that led directly to the tomb, indicated the direction that they would have come from, at least the work on the inside of the tomb, the way that the tombs were broken into, the way it was desecrated, indicated individuals, that were not really, I would say, well versed in the act of professionally desecrating tombs. These were amateurs at best, the way they gained entry to the crypts. So they knew that there were several individuals. Lunt instruments, crude tools, that sort of thing. - Right, crude tools, some which were left behind, which is strange. But they knew that, for an example, that there was at least two to three individuals, most likely males, that they had broken into the tomb. And not much really more was learned at that point for the time being. - We're not gonna give away the game here, but it is important to note that from the very beginning, the investigators begin to miss some important details at the crime scene, including regarding one of the bodies, okay? And it is interesting, the question that I have for you is, it is really interesting as you read your account, Justin, because you can tell from the get go, there is tension between the eerie PD and these private detectives. And when I say tension, I mean, it's worse than like an interagency rivalry, where everybody's playing on the same team. You actually get the sense of there is some outright hostility here. And undercutting, undermining, questioning each other's motives and methods and so forth. And I just hate to say it is not pretty. - No. (laughs) - It is not pretty at all. And you think this horrible crime intended to wound a family in their most sort of precious place, a place of remembrance of their loved ones, right? And the folks who are there to try to make sense out of it all and pursue justice can't even get on the same page themselves. How do you explain that? - I think most of that was fueled by the desire of the strong family to have total control over everything, to have total secrecy. And it just compounded and fractured with the goals of newspaper reporters and detectives from the city of Erie Police Department who felt that there was something a little bit strange about this occurrence that wasn't adding up. So there's a little bit of a power struggle there. You also have the three newspapers in Erie at the time, the Erie Daily Times, which was pitted against both the Erie Evening Herald and the Erie Dispatch. Now, the latter two were owned by Charles Strong and his wife, Annie. So it's like you have this melting pot of all these different parties fighting and vying for control of sensationalism, all with different motives. Sure, some of them might have been wanting to find the actual culprits, but others turned their venom and tenacity towards the Strong family because they felt something secretive must be going on. Now, we've had a few instances in previous episodes of Crime capsule where murder investigations are absolutely complicated by warring news entities, whether it's newspapers or radio broadcasts or whatever it is that are sort of seeking to get the scoop or trying to suppress aspects of the story or selectively covering a murder trial. That's where they, I'm afraid in that particular era of yellow journalism, right, the early 1900s. It's just way more common than we like to think, isn't it? Yeah, especially for the period. I mean, we didn't have technology. So these newspapers were pretty much the Twitter and Facebook of the day upfront in your face news and journalism. Obviously, we as historians come to learn that as we go back and review a lot of these newspaper accounts, sometimes they're credible, sometimes they're not. It kind of leads me to a quote, one of my professors from college told me that bleeds it leads and that has been a force, especially with the press that back then was monumental. And that unfortunately, that principle has not changed, will never change. We're stuck with it, but it does help you to decode the business of news journalism a little bit. The more you are aware of it. So help us to understand the site is secured and so forth and even despite these tensions between the different investigating agencies and so forth, they are able to make a little bit of progress in the investigation and then strange things start to happen. But before we get to those strange things, let me just ask you, at the time, who did they think early on, who did they think could have done this or would have done this, who occupied the investigator's minds as far as sort of primary persons of interest or types of people who would have done this? - Well, I think it really depends on the perspective of which investigators we're talking about. If we're talking about the city police, they at the time, especially the lead detective whose work was so critical in this case, detective Walsh, he felt that the matter was intricately connected to the strong family, but at the time, he didn't really know to what extent. When you have the private detectives of the Perkins Agency arrived, they feel it is the work of Vandals. In fact, Gilbert Perkins, who led the agency and arrived in Erie, gave all sorts of explanations to Andy Strong from that it was done by individuals who were alcoholics to people who possibly worked at the cemetery that were not paid well enough by Andy Strong. Some of the ideas themselves are ridiculous, but at the time, most of the attention as to who could have been responsible follows along the lines of, well, why do mausoleum discretions happen? It's usually for extortion for money or robbery or theft of goods. But that's compounded by the fact that there was not really much of high value taken from the inside of the tombs themselves. So there's nothing really much of the only value is, of course, if you're stealing a body and you're holding it for ransom, which was the initial, I think, outcome that they were thinking at the time. - Right, and that does absolutely change the calculus of motive for sure. I mean, that's one of those kind of intriguing dimensions where you can begin to narrow things down. Now, as you wrote in the book, whenever you have a high profile case like this, of course, you always get folks who wanna weigh in, who have their own theories. The public is following this with just slavish attention, scandal, the drama, everybody's eating it right up. And it comes as no surprise, not one bit whatsoever, that pretty soon as well, you start to get little red herrings, you start to get kind of stray theories which don't account to anything, but which are just distractions for the police and so forth. One of the most significant pieces of evidence if you wanna call it that, are sort of early interventions from outside in the case, are a series of letters which come from the black hand, which most of all the snears are probably aware was the precursor to modern day. Italian organized crime, or in some cases, just ethnically organized crime in the region. You have this amazing quote, and I have to say it's one of the few, in a very serious book, it was one of the few times that I actually laughed out loud as I was reading where one of these letters from the black hand arrives at the family's mansion. And I'll let you tell us what it says, but the upshot was the investigator so looked at it, immediately wrote it off saying, "There's no way this could be from the black hand "because it's too well written "and everything is spelled correctly." - Right, absolutely, it's kind of humorous. - It's amazing. - Right, we think it's humorous at the time, but that just kind of goes back to how well these crimes were documented in the press and by police departments at the time that they knew what to look for. And if somebody was trying to steal, request that money from you or ransom or sorts, they knew kind of what to look, at least some people, we won't go too far into it 'cause I don't want to spoil it, but-- - Oh, of course, of course. - Yeah, I mean, you read the letters today, we kind of sit there and chuckle because it seems so ridiculous. But in the timeframe of the period, we put ourselves back in their shoes and it was actually the second time strong had been the recipient of an extortion letter. He was extorted in 1909 by a group of young men that were quickly arrested and sent to prison. So for him to be extorted again was something that he took seriously regardless of what other individuals thought. - And those aspects, we have to credit the law enforcement apparatus for taking all of these things seriously. I mean, they have to, right? And they have to investigate them properly. And ultimately, those letters do become important, but for a reason which nobody could have expected in that initial moment. - No, tell us, I mean, as the case proceeds, you get to some other external developments which are kind of surprising. One of which is there is an intimidation attempt against Charles Strong, someone fires a bullet at him or at least at his office, which has a rather remarkable level of accuracy for the time. It's kind of interesting. And then there is, he wasn't there, thankfully, in the moment, but still. And then I confess I did not have on my bingo card for your book, Justin. There's an explosion at a bank. So what's going on with this? - So at the time, in the course of my research, I'll just precursor with this. I think 1911 is probably one of the most pivotal years in Erie's history. Numerous incidents had gone on. There have been several high profile murders that had occurred in the city prior to the desecration. You had the bombing of a coal trestle, which was eventually later connected to a series of union bombings throughout the whole country, which had brought the Secret Service here. And then you had the bombing of the RS battles, Bank of Gerard, Pennsylvania, which is several miles, I'd say west outside of Erie. Which at the time, that was unique because that brought in addition to the Perkins and Burns agencies. Now you had the Pinkerton detective agency coming in. So they investigated that matter. They felt that was connected in some way to the Mosleum case, although other agencies didn't. And it was just really like a mess. You had the robberies of several churches in Erie and those really pulled in many different directions because like I said, you have numerous agencies investigating all these different occurrences. Some are saying, well, I think these are connected. We'll know these are connected. And this fascinating thing is that it deals with all these colorful characters, all these individuals that really just kind of amplify the story into, in the beginning stage, a major who'd done it. - And I'm so glad you said that because honestly, I think my favorite character in the entire book shows up at just that moment. And I shouldn't say character. He's not a fictional creation in a novel. I mean, he was a real live flesh and blood cops cop. I mean, this guy, this guy is cut from a different cloth. I was reminded, so Inspector Oldfield, right? And I was reminded of a couple things. Number one, he seemed like the Erie, Pennsylvania version of Bass Reeves, right? You know, the Western law man, for whom as you may remember, when Bass Reeves retired to his home sort of terrain in Western Arkansas, you know, the home city, on his beat, in the last decade of his beat on the force, there was no crime in his precinct. There were no crimes recorded in his precinct. No one was willing to break the law 'cause I knew that Bass would get him, you know, just extraordinary, absolutely, the guy's a legend. But for Inspector Oldfield, you know, I was reminded of a couple things, which is basically the rule that, you know, you don't mess with the Fed. And in particular, you don't mess with the postal department, right? There's just something going on at that level of integrity and professionalism, where if you get a postal inspector on your tail, man, you know, as they say in the, in the great, sort of fairy tales, you are already dead, right? Like you are toast. And it's just, I loved watching him work. I'm gonna stop gushing in a second, I promise. But, you know, the demeanor, the professionalism, the suits, the mustache, man. Okay, just tell us about this guy 'cause I'm done. - Yeah, John Frank Oldfield is actually probably one of the reasons why this case received any kind of resolution, if anything. You know, this is a precursor before the CIA, before the FBI. And at the time, not a lot of people know this, the postal inspectors were the most powerful law enforcement agents in the country. You know, they had free reign throughout the country to investigate any crime that's associated with the postal service. Now, Oldfield was born, he came from Ellicott City, Maryland, and he went by the name Frank. And for some time, he was engaged in local government with his family when there was some infamous political rallies and street game clashes in the late 1890s. Oldfield then went on to serve as the sheriff of Howard County, Maryland, and then went on to become a postal inspector when President McKinley was in office. Oldfield, by 1911, was probably one of the most well-known law enforcement officers in the country. And that is due in part, due in 1909, he mobilized government agencies against a Black Hanson certificate that was in Ohio that had spread into Pennsylvania. And it's kind of, it's an odd name, we laugh at it now. It was a, it was known as the Society of the Banana. And it was ironic because history press in Arcadia Publishing, I think somebody had did a book on that as well. In most of that, under-rolled groups, illegal activities, which included extortion, murder, Oldfield charged into that head-on and actually was responsible for breaking up the ring and leading to numerous successful convictions in 1909. So when that happens, he's really well known throughout the country. He's probably, the Marvin Pervis of his day. How Pervis was going after Dillinger. It's kind of similar in the effect that Oldfield was known. He was feared by some criminals. He was known for his no-nonsense by the book approach. Some of his methods are shrewd and probably would be illegal under today's standards. But back then, we're not dealing with much regulation and control over law enforcement like we have today. So he really... - And who's gonna interfere with? I mean, like, who's gonna stand in his way? I mean, like, who could possibly corral this guy, right? Thank goodness he's on our side. - And it also brings up the matter of the private detective agencies that were involved. These detective agencies back then were infamous. And even the Burns agency, which is highly respected, I mean, William Burns at some point was accused of murder. Often a lot of these detective agencies would employ men with criminal history. They would engage in criminal activities. So you had them, the police, I mean, like I said, it's just a fascinating conglomerate of all these different characters and all these different agencies that get involved and it really resorts in a power struggle. And Oldfield was ahead of his time with his investigative techniques and how he really kind of achieved success on his cases. - So when we come back next week, I am going to get you to tell us about one particular instance of how he began to pull on the threads of this case and see some of the perpetrators begin to unravel a little bit. There's a great story that you have in the book. It is marvelous, it sets the tone. It's wonderful investigative work and I'm not going to oversell it, but I'm not going to undersell it either. It's a great story. So we'll see you again next week. Justin, thank you so much for the time you've given us today. - Thank you. - Thanks for listening. Our guest has been Justin Dombrowski, author of Erie's great mausoleum mystery, ghouls, grave robbers, and extortion, published by the History Press. To order a copy of the book, visit your local independent bookstore or visit ArcadiaPublishing.com. Join us next week as we continue our conversation with Justin. See you then. Thanks to our producer, Bill Huffman, our production director, Bridget Cohen, audio engineer, Sean Rool-Hoffman, and our executive producers, Michael D'Aloya and Gerardo Orlanda. I'm your host, Benjamin Morris. CrimePapsool is a production of Evergreen Podcasts and a signature title of the Killer Podcasts Network. You can find a CrimePapsool wherever you listen to podcasts. Discover more great true crime and paranormal programming at killerpodcasts.com. Hi, I'm Sean McCabe, and I'm Carrie McCabe. We are, well, married, obviously, but we're also obsessed with the darker side of things. True crime stories, alien abductions, poltergeists. If it leaves you scratching your head and keeping those lights on at night, we want to hear about it. That's why we host the podcast, Ain't It Scary, with Sean and Carrie. Every week, we bring our listeners a true story guaranteed to send chills down your spine, from history's most brutal serial killers to the mystery of spontaneous human combustion. Yep, lots of these stories leave unanswered questions behind and you'll get to poke through the rubble of the evidence with a hardened skeptic and... Someone whose mind is more open to fun. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. You can find Ain't It Scary with Sean and Carrie wherever you get your podcasts. And on social media at Ain't It Scary. Come play with us. Coming up on 5-Minute News, I'm Anthony Davis. You might think it's partisan, because maybe it's critical of one side or the other, but it's not just the truth. And I think that's also something that's kind of unusual for Americans listening to the radio or to podcasts, because the news landscape in the States has been so partisan for so many decades. So 5-Minute News is verified, truthful, independent, unbiased, and essential world news daily. 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