Amala Ekpunobi
CRAZY: One Police Officer Debates 20 Anti-Cop Criminals
(upbeat music) - Hello everybody and welcome to today's show. I'm your host, Amala Eppinobi. And today we've got a heated back and forth. Actually, I think this is going to be quite respectful. It's one cop versus 20 anti-cop criminals. I'm talking about, these people are a cab. All cops are bastards. And one cop is going to sit and talk to each of them. Jubilee is hitting us with this fire content. Shout out to Jubilee. Go ahead and subscribe to them. I know a lot of you watch these reactions through me, which I appreciate y'all. And shout out to all my first time live viewers. Okay, we are live, baby. Today we are going to be diving into Jubile's surrounded. You know where I stand on the policing issue. We have many a video about it on this channel. So let's see who can defend themselves in this back and forth. And as always, we have Taylor and Nashville. - Hey guys, happy Monday. I see some disappointment that we're not reacting to the Jubilee video where you're swiping on whether someone's a Republican or Democrat in the chat, they're a little disappointed. But this one I think is going to be plenty of fireworks and maybe we can still do that one on a fun Friday or something else. - Yes, maybe we can. I think this one's going to have a little bit more substance. So I wanted to hop straight to it. You know, if you guys really rally in the comments and tell me that you want me to react to my own Jubilee video, I will do it. Okay, let's get straight into this video. - And tell Derek Chauvin murdered that dude, George Floyd. People were not being held accountable. - Cops were not being held accountable. - That's not true. - It's not a false statement. - It absolutely is. - That's my point. - You're telling me there's police officers before Derek Chauvin had no accountability. - Very little. - I got a button for that. Is he going to play? - That is. - That is not correct. - Boom, okay. - No, very little accountability. - Wrong. I'm Kevin Donaldson, a retired police officer from New Jersey. And today, I'm surrounded by 20 criminals. (dramatic music) My first claim is that cops only use lethal force as a last resort. - First of all, I don't think that's 20 criminals. Maybe my count is off, but I think that's the last one. But maybe they just recorded it thinking there was going to be 20 people and they didn't show up. - I don't know. (dramatic music) - Okay. - The criminals must rush to the center. It's so weird like calling them criminals, but I guess it is what it is. (dramatic music) Okay, so the prompt is cops only use lethal force as a last resort. I'm going to go ahead and say this. I don't agree with the prompt. Okay, this could have been worded differently. I think he could have said most cops only use force. Lethal force as a last resort as we do have evidence to the contrary of bad cops that have literally jumped the gun and shot people, so. - So I don't know how many times I've seen instead of them try to de-escalate the situation. They just blow out the gun. They maybe say a couple of commands and if things don't go their way, they use the weapon. I just saw a video where some lady was picking up some oil and water. She's always not okay in the head. And the cop took it upon himself to threaten lethal force. And the woman, like I said, wasn't all the way there. She threatened to use this oil and water to throw it on him. And he just merely shot her. - Do you want me to tell you the parts of that video that were wrong? - I like to hear yourself, yeah. - Oh yeah. - And let's actually clear this up so we get the facts straight. He's talking about Sonia Massey, a black woman who was shot in her home by a police officer who was clearly not doing the proper thing. I don't even think she threatened to throw the boiling water at him in the video. She was making tea in her kitchen. She had the boiling water in her hand. And without any sort of motion towards this cop to threaten to throw it at him or anything like that, she was shot in the face. Upon, before she was shot in the face, I believe she said I rebuke you in the name of Jesus or in the name of Jesus Christ, I rebuke you. And maybe that set off the police officer in some sort of way, but he threatened her with the firearm. She ducked down, apologized for the thing that she said and was subsequently shot in the face. So it's just like cut and dry, a case where a cop should not have jumped to leave a force and he decided to. And even his response after shooting her in the face was not a proper response. So this one cut and dry. - Okay, so the cop was 100% wrong on that one. From what I've seen, but we also got to remember, there's always more to the story than you see on video. Those of you out here, Rodney King? - Okay. - Rodney King, there was a lot of footage there where Rodney King, who's six foot seven, who is high on PCP, who led the police on a chase and he won't stop, he won't follow command. So there's more to that story. This one, unfortunately, from what I've seen, that cop is 100% wrong and I will call that cop out. That woman was too far away, she had boiling water and she said something about in the name of Jesus, I do, I bless you or something like that. - But is that not using lethal force when it wasn't necessary? - Yeah. - It definitely is, which is why, I said at the beginning, the prompt is not a proper prompt, he should have, they should have altered that prompt. - Yeah, so that just defeats those. - Yes, I agree with that, yeah. - They actually agree with you. The only time you can use lethal force is when your life or somebody else's life is an eminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. His life doesn't meet that criteria. - Yeah, there's always gray area, like for example, do you remember that one time that some lady, she went to Lady Cop, she went to pull some guy out of the car, instead of grabbing her taser, she is her gun? - Well, the threat level on a woman going against a guy, say if there's a five foot woman going against-- - But did she not use lethal force when it wasn't necessary? - Yeah, but her threat level is different. - She was trying to use her taser and she ended up using her gun. - Well, I was in an era before tasers, so I can't speak to that. - He's really on the back foot here with this prompt of the way he set it up. If you had said most cops only use lethal forces at last resort, you have a winning argument there. You can look at statistics of police encounters with criminals or individuals who are not committing crimes, and then you can run the stats on how many times these interactions end with a use of lethal force, how many times that lethal force was actually justified, but because he said cops only use lethal force as a last resort, you are already gonna lose 'cause people can come up and give you multiple examples of cops using lethal force when it wasn't necessary. And now he's defending a woman pulling a gun instead of a taser, and he's saying, "Well, women have a differential force "when it comes to encountering a man "who may or may not be committing a crime." That's not an argument for the woman's ability to pull out a gun and shoot the guy. It's maybe an argument that women shouldn't be on the police force, or if they are in the police force, they shouldn't be answering calls with big, you know, masculine men if they don't have enough strength to combat whatever is happening when they show up at the scene. So far, not great, but we'll see. - Whoever, a woman's threat level is different than a man's threat level. - Yeah, but that's your experience, but I mean, we're talking about facts here. Facts are, she went and used her gun instead of using her taser. - So I didn't see the video, so I'm trying to go on what you're telling me, but I am telling you there is a force continuum. There is constructive authority. - That's a good one, let's go. - Why'd they vote him out? He was crushing that. What do you mean? You wrote him out. - You wrote him out. (audience applauding) (bell dings) - Well, crazy thing about it. You just went back with a statement right now by saying that he shouldn't have shot her. In the original statement, you said cops don't use leap before us until they have to, but then you said that was the case where you shouldn't have used leap before us and you did. There's plenty of cases, I'm sure you've seen them, where cops use leap before us and they shouldn't have. I get it, sometimes they may be scared for their lives. Even though the situation doesn't deem it to prefer wanting to be scared for their lives, sometimes they are, but I feel like that's all in training. Now that's where training should be more because there's lots of cops that are just so jittery and so trigger happy when they shouldn't be, when people are just doing regular things. - You're 100% correct, my friend. You're 100% correct. I've been saying this for years that every cop should be at least a purple belt in jujitsu. That's gonna do two things. It's gonna allow you to be able to handle yourself, but it's also gonna be the confidence that's instilled within you in order to be able to handle yourself. The vast majority only use lethal force as a last resort. But there are occasions where, let's face it, there are certain people that should never be cops. I'll be the first one to tell you that. They got shoved in lockers in schools. They have a complex about them. Trust me, the cops who should be cops know exactly who those people are. They have a, they have a God complex and they shouldn't, they should've never got that job. So I'll be the first one to tell you that. And the thing is, once some happens where that cop that should have never had that job, shows they should never have that job, a lot of times they never get fired. And if they do get fired, they can somehow just go to a different department and still work. And I'm not sure if that's true, but from what I've heard accounts, people can, let's say get fired from one county, go to the next, even though yes. - Yeah, the winning argument here is to run on the stats of lethal force being used. They're both making some good points. And I like that he said respectfully, I validate everything that you're saying. I think they should be trained in jujitsu. I think that's a great idea if we have the resources and funding in order to make that happen. Because then you can respond to situations with, you know, dialed in force, but not lethal force necessarily if it is not needed. Now, I hope that he brings up other professions that have mistakes like this, that are not as scrutinized as much as cops. Not to say that cops shouldn't be scrutinized. They most certainly should, especially if they're misusing their power. He's also right when he says that some cops do go into the police force to sort of validate things about themselves or pass traumas that they've experienced so that they can sort of inflict that back on the world. Now, the percentage of cops that are in law enforcement for that reason, I would argue is probably not that high statistically, but there certainly are the bad apples, as people like to say, who go into policing in order to, you know, have that God complex and utilize that against other people. And when the other guy, the criminal, I don't know what his name is, says that it can be often very hard to fire cops, even cops that have committed crimes, very much true. A lot of them are unionized, so they'll get placed on administrative leave or leave pending investigation, and they'll go through this lengthy investigation process and go back and forth trying to figure out what happened in these situations. And oftentimes, not, I won't say oftentimes, but sometimes even when they've committed crimes, they end up, you know, getting away with it in some way, shape or form, but just being removed from the department in which they're serving. - History of going to black and brown people and discriminating them, he still can have work, or he can be paid leave. I paid leave is crazy to me, because you can shoot somebody, and then get paid just to say like home. That's crazy to me, but what do you think on that? What do you think that's something that should happen? - So that particular cop you're talking about, that video, he's in six different departments. That should have been red flag number one. Okay, you don't just keep popping departments. There's obviously a problem there. Paid leave something different. You sign a contract on this particular job, and that contract states that you are working until you either retire or you're terminated. So paid leave is you're basically out on an injury. I was out on an injury, because there are wounds beyond gunshot wounds that will screw you up way worse than being shot. - There's also paid leave pending investigation. So what that guy's saying of like, you could shoot somebody on the job, and they'll go through this whole investigation process, place you on paid leave so that you're not active on the force while this investigation is pending, and they're trying to figure out what happened. So it's not always an injury. I don't know why you would revert to the argument of injury when somebody's making the claim that it happens beyond those cases. So far, y'all should've put me, I'm not a cop. I'm not a cop. Calm down, I'm not a cop. Y'all should've put me on this. - And trust me on that one. - Definitely. You must've raised that file. This is my talking breath. - Thank you. - Our brother. - It's nice, respectful. - I come from the city of East Los Angeles. Police officers are shooting them in the back. A kid who I trained as a little boxer took a swing at an officer, yes, took off running and has four gunshots in his back. And then other videos are coming out, shot in the back so they don't have to run after them. - Okay, and what happened to that officer who shot the gentleman in the back? - On paid leave. - Okay, pending investigation. If he truly shot that person in the back and with all the cameras around here, the truth will come out. If he truly shot that person in the back, he's going to jail. He's giving up his freedom. All right, you cannot shoot somebody in the back. The only time I've ever seen that past grand jury is when somebody had a gun shooting back at him like this. It's the only time I've ever seen that. - So why does it continue? I mean, why does it, why? There's too many cases. Whether it be East Los Angeles, whether it be everything, and it's not just beating as you guys are shooting them in the back. - We're not all police shootings happen in the back. It does happen, but you're generalizing again. You can't say all police shootings happen in the back. - Enough that it's causing attention to us is bringing attention if something is not serious and it doesn't bring attention. But obviously this debate is happening because it is happening. If we don't admit there's a problem, how can we fix a problem? - If a police officer-- - You can admit there's a problem. You have to then investigate the scope of the problem. So what he should really be talking about is, you know, police have millions of encounters with Americans every single year, millions upon millions of encounters. How many of those encounters end with somebody being shot in the back? Let's break down the numbers, see what percentage that is. I'd argue it's an extremely small percentage. And then from there, you take care of the bad apples who are shooting people in the back, you get them out of the police force and we should expedite that process, of course, with a lengthy and thorough investigation. But there are, of course, all these roadblocks that happen along the way. It's not the easiest thing to go and fire a cop. I will admit that and I've worked alongside LAPD. I happen to live in Los Angeles much like this guy. And, you know, they'll admit it's a lengthy process to get rid of a bad cop, but nobody hates bad cops more than good cops. And, you know, sometimes you have multiple bad cops who are banding together and, you know, then that reinforces a certain culture around things, but it's not, it's not yet substantiated that most cops are acting in this way. And that's really what's important. Shoot somebody in the back without probable cause, without justification, they are going to jail. They are losing their job, their family gets embarrassed, and they are spending the rest of their life in prison. Here's what is, we have to take it to Silver Court because, long... That is another argument that he could have leaned into if he wasn't being voted off, is who has the resources to fight only these battles against the police department? That's another question. And then, you know, I would also imagine sometimes that cops will do one thing, like shoot somebody in the back, and then, you know, we'll rearrange the story a little bit so I didn't shoot him in the back type of thing. And if you don't get a thorough investigation on the other end of that, then things can be covered up. But again, I am a pro-cop individual. I wanna make that very clear, but I'm not pro-bad cops, and that needs to be talked about. (audience applauds) - So, how do you feel about qualified immunity? - Qualified immunity, you're talking about police officer being indemnified for their crimes, but can you give me an example so I can defend it a little bit better? - I started off with that 'cause I feel like some officers, even though they might not wanna like shoot, I feel like nobody wants to kill nobody, right? That's like the last option. But I feel like they can like get away with it because of these protections that they have. - So, the best of my knowledge, qualified immunity was taken away, taken away quite some time ago for good cause, for good cause, nobody, including police officers, is above the law. You can't just go out and kill people. Have they done it? 100%. Steve Caracapa and Lou Eppolito were mob hit men for the NYPD for years, because what the law eventually caught up to them, it just took too long. Qualified immunity, it should have been something that's never there because police are held to a higher standard than everybody else. - Are they? - Absolutely. - And so, gentlemen, prior to you said, the young man took a swing at a police officer. Well, what happened if this police officer just went up to somebody and took a swing at them? They're gonna lose their job. Now, the person who took a swing at them, yeah, he might spend the night in jail if he gets caught, but other than that, there's really no real consequences. - I'm just saying that they have these protections and they have these resources for them. Like most investigations, when you said you said something about pay-to-leave, right? And there's an investigation. How many times is that investigation from like an outside agency versus like the department? - In New Jersey every time. - So it's internal, right? - No, it's every time it's an outside agency. - Right, but would you say that's like the standard for everywhere else? - You know, most of the time it is. - Most cops, so they get away with it because of like, they make excuses. Like even in the case recently, where like the lady with the boiling water, she threw it towards the cop, that was wrong, everybody knows it was wrong, but then there's still people trying to fight and defend that. So you can't say that they don't have protection, you know? - Well, of course they have. - I'm pretty sure that cop was arrested. Can we get a fact check on that real quick? Can we look into that? The Sonia Massey cop? Taylor, thank you. - Yeah, because every defense attorney is hired by their client, even though their client might be guilty as hell. Every defense attorney has a duty to defend their client, whether it's a union attorney or whether it's private attorney, it doesn't matter. You're gonna have to protect their client. - And then that works out then. - But the internal investigation, they will go harder on you. My very good friend was under indictment for murder for 15 weeks, even though everything was on video and it was a totally clean shoot. It's a totally clean shoot, proven, still 15 weeks with a murder indictment hanging over his head. So there's really not qualified immunity. The oversight over top of police shootings is so much more than everybody sees. - Hmm. - There's the flags. - He said race of flags, get me out of here. It's so funny though, the people are sort of like willingly, okay, I'm done talking, I'm gonna get out of this situation. - I should have a white flag for that. I did look up the Sonia Massey information. It says Sean Grayson was a former Sangamon County sheriff's deputy arrested and charged with the murder of in the fatal shooting of Sean Sonia Massey on July 6, 2024. Rest want was issued July 17th and he was taken into custody, charged with murder, class one felony connection with Massey's death and he was also fired two weeks after the shooting. - As he should be, 'cause that was a pretty clean, clean, clear cut, cut and dry investigation as everything was on video in the whole world. Saw that one. - I don't know this. (bell dings) - How you doing? - So on the same topic of I believe Sonia, bless her soul 'cause that was pretty bad. So this is what I heard. He had two DUIs, he was transferred and the guy that was responsible for him, the sergeant, said he didn't do his due diligence and do what he was supposed to to make sure that he was supposed to be on that department. That's a problem. And then the other problem is why didn't the officer pull his gun on him and tell him, "Hey, dude, chill." They knew that that lady had schizophrenic tendencies and the mom even asked to said that she said, "Can you send somebody that will de-escalate?" And they sent a hot head over there. And that guy didn't take no responsibility. And you see how that doesn't help your stand points when you're trying to make a difference and then this guy won't take responsibility. And then that other cop there too, he didn't even say nothing. So I'm like, what would you do in that situation if an officer was because you knew that was wrong, right? - Absolutely. This is why I'm gonna say it again. I'm gonna probably say it a dozen more times. Nobody hates a bad cop worse than a good cop because what that guy did looks bad on everybody. Okay, now everybody has to bear the brunt of his poor decision. That sergeant who was there or the other officer who was there on scene, he has to live with the fact that he did not act. Trust me when I tell you, the punishment for that crime will go far beyond what the media is gonna say. It'll go far beyond what you think and what everybody in this room thinks. He's got that woman's soul on his heart for the rest of his life. - I agree. - That is, and there was a second part of your question which escapes me. - The guy that's in charge of putting that deputy in that department said he didn't know about his past. - Absolute failure on that part. And they did look into the record of this cop that ended up shooting Sonia Massey and he had multiple complaints on his record. So that very much should have been filtered through somebody to figure out that he should not be on the force. And I think some of the complaints were excessive use of force. So, you know, most definitely, as I said before, a clear cop mistake on their part. - I believe I heard the statement and he's like, well, I didn't know. What kind of answer is that? - That is not an answer. It's not an acceptable answer. Police are held to a higher standard which we should be held to a higher standard. Okay, they need to do their due diligence on who they're bringing in because that police officer has an enormous amount of responsibility as soon as they hit the street. - And he said it with so much desensitized attitude. I'm sorry, but like, I've met good and bad. And that was kind of like, bro, you give me more fuel to this whole argument of there's good cop back cop. We don't see it when we see that. And the media loves to bring it up, which they do because now we have all. - So you know what? - But the media doesn't like to talk about good cops. If you were mixing in cop stories of the wonderful things that they do for the community, shout out to the cops that I know in the LAPD who I was literally just talking to one of my cop friends and he's like taking underprivileged kids from the community, training them to run a marathon and taking them to go and run the marathon alongside him and running pace with these kids so that they have something to do outside of their inner city schools that aren't providing resources, that aren't giving them something to do. They're getting mixed up into trouble outside of school because they're in a very heavy gang community where essentially every street is blocked off for a specific game, but gang, but you will never hear new stories. Oh, LAPD officer takes 20 kids to go and run a marathon and trains alongside them. You'll never hear that in the media because that's not what the media is made for. They're made for salacious news that sort of get you heated, that get you in the street, that get you protesting. It's made for division. And if you had one bad cop story, you could have thousands of good cop stories to throw in the mix and that would alleviate some of the anger that these people feel that are coming up and debating these cops because they don't know the stats when it comes to good encounters versus bad encounters and it doesn't justify the bad encounters in no way, shape, or form. That cop should be, should go to court, have the book thrown at him and be placed in jail. But you need to talk about the good things that cops do as well, which people have no idea how really large their job is when it comes to serving their community. It goes far beyond actual policing and showing up when crimes are committed. But technology now, we could see everything. I'm sorry to cut you off, but if you look at the George Floyd thing, the officers that were standing around, they lost their job for failure to act, the failure to act. - If I was in a murder, if I was in a car with a murder, would I not be charging that murder? - You would be charged as an accessory. And I believe they were charged. I do believe they were charged. Now, I have been in situations where, one in particular, where there's a car chase, everybody's adrenaline's ripping and everybody in this room who's had their adrenaline ripping, it's hard to dial it down at the place. I watched them rip this guy out of the car and slam him to the pavement once they got him. And you know what I did? You know, and you can hear it on camera. There's actual proof of this. I slapped cuffs on this guy and I said, "He's cuffed. It's over." - Okay. - All right, because I knew this guy was gonna get it 'cause their adrenaline was high. He rammed the police car. There was a whole bunch of other things involved in there. I have a duty to protect those who can't protect themselves. First person I protect, I'm gonna tell, I'm not gonna bullshit you here. First person I protect is myself. - Of course, but beyond that, I am willing to be my brother's keeper. So once he's in custody, he's my brother. I am his keeper, all right? And I am responsible for his safety. If he dies under in my custody, it's on me. - And that is a very valuable mindset. And I think what a lot of people also don't take into account is just how crazy being a cop actually is, especially if you're stationed in somewhere like LA, specifically Southeast LA. It can be extremely crazy. You're going to call after call, domestic violence, DUI, if somebody has a gun, there's a fight over at this bar, and you have to approach every situation as if you didn't just deal with a call 10 minutes ago where somebody tried to punch you in the face. Or 20 people came screaming at you, trying to tell you what the situation was. You have to deal with that, deal with the adrenaline rush, deal with the irritation of trying to get people in the proper position so that hopefully nobody gets arrested. But if they need to be arrested, you have to handle that. And then you have to go on to the next call, put on a calm face and approach it in the same way you approach the last one. And while realistically, you know, there's going to be irritation and anger, we should try our best to put very calm cops in the position like this guy is testifying to his own temperament of, I know that I need to protect each person, even if they're getting arrested. But when you have cops that are, you're ramming the police car, you're causing all this trouble, you've derailed their day where they have to chase you on the highway for an hour, they're going to be angry and they shouldn't act with retribution, but sometimes they do and it's not okay. They should be held to a higher standard, but I'm just trying to lay out the situations that police officers find themselves in. - So that other officer getting back to the video, that other officer, he's got to live with that. He's got to live with that. But not every, but again, police officers are human beings. Human humans are flawed. Humans are fallible. - Do you think there's something that we have to break and set the police system about that? This code, right? - No, it's not code. You guys don't have code? - What do you mean? You're talking about the thin blue line? - I don't know. I wouldn't see. I wouldn't assume you have code, but it. - Okay. And what's often not done, okay? Like police get a lot of heat and sometimes justifiably so for the things they do. We're not extending this heat to any other profession. Doctors take a Hippocratic oath. Police take their own oath. We don't go after all these doctors for malpractice and negligence and times that they harm patients and it's because police officers carry a gun and batons and tasers and yes, they have weapons on them. Is a scalpel not a weapon? I've seen many doctors misuse theirs in many different ways. They don't get the same heat that police officers get and it's leading to the same thing, death. And even with police officers, you could argue that like you're kind of already committing a crime. So you're putting yourself in danger. A patient hasn't done anything. They've come to a doctor with a health issue and some doctors and nurses don't stand by that Hippocratic oath. So maybe we should be level headed in our response because so many other professions. I could throw in a thousand other professions that have similar problems to law enforcement but they're not getting as much heat as law enforcement is receiving. - We'll get back into it. We got a $50 super chat here from Rochelle Foreman who says just dropping by to say thank you for having such a powerful voice at such a young age. I'm 31 and at your age, I was living in my own little world. You are so intelligent and provide a fresh point of view without shoving or presenting ideas to our sleep. - Oh, that's really nice. Thank you so much. I appreciate that, that's so good. - Yeah, I used to be living in my own little world as well and I'm glad that I stepped out of it. Hopefully we're giving reasonable takes on today's show. I by no means want to defend a bad cop. They should be rooted out and rooted out as much as they possibly can. - Yeah, I appreciate your time. (bell dings) - Hi. - How are you? - I'm good, how are you? Since there's only a minute left, I just wanted to bring up to these sides like, oh, if a kid that was like shoved in lockers becomes a police officer, like he has an agenda. Like, don't you think there should be more like scanning or training done in order to become an officer? - Since then, how would you do that? - I mean, like other jobs, like there's so much more training and like, yeah. - Other jobs, there's much less training than police officers. - Other jobs have much less training than police officers and this is like, you know, something that floats around that people say about police officers that they don't have proper training. Now we could argue that the vetting system that's currently in place does allow for bad apples to get through, but to the best of my understanding, if you're becoming a police officer, and this may not be the case in most departments, maybe any police officers that are watching right now can confirm if it's the case in their police department. There's an entire vetting system. They will do interviews with your family members to get engaged on your temperament. They will do psychiatric evaluations to get engaged on if you have problems in your past, if you may be functioning with this sort of God complex or past traumas that are now leading you to the police force. Now, of course, people can lie their asses off throughout all of this and people will slip through the cracks. You also have the police academy, which is extensive training. They do simulators where you are placed in front of a screen and I've actually attempted a couple of these simulators and they are so difficult. We have this on video somewhere, it exists. You guys can check it out. Where they basically put a scenario of you going to a crime scene or somewhere where a suspect needs to be detained or taken care of and you have to shout commands at this screen. You're given a gun, you're given all these different things to deal with, they place a whole vest on you and you have to decide and decipher whether or not you use lethal force, whether or not you attempt to detain somebody who has a knife on them, what engaged your response to these different people shouting the different demands that you have for them. Of course, I was not trained prior to trying these simulations so it's gonna be way worse for me. Awful, I shot a man in the nuts. (laughing) Which is not fun. - I win this game so I can confirm. - I think he deserved it in that simulation. I think he actually did have a gun and I shot him in the nuts on the screen. Okay guys, so they're training. We could argue maybe their training needs to be expanded more, he gave the option or the suggestion of Jujitsu totally open to that would be expensive but if it makes you better at your job, it makes you better at your job and that's what matters. But this whole idea that they don't have training or they don't have vetting is not true. - There's no way to- - There's no way to- - If there's these people that are coming through that have an agenda that are gonna just to shoot someone based off. - So they haven't invented the mind reading tool. - Like psychologically? - We go through psychological examinations, okay? And until we get that, develop that mind reading tool, these people are gonna slip through the cracks. It's a fact of life. There are people who just shouldn't be police officers. - You don't think that there could be more to scan people? - How? - I don't know, but I just feel like- - That's the big question is how? 'Cause we go through multiple psychological exams, we go through the Wonder Lake test, the MMPI, which are 500 question tests a piece, extensive psychological backgrounds. So beyond that, what are you gonna do? - Yeah. - There's no way to tell. It's unfortunate, but guess what? - They'll go to the family. Oh, he's such a great kid. Oh, we're so happy he's gonna be in law enforcement. Did anything happen to you in school? Oh no, I breezed through school, you know? I did really well and people can lie their asses off all the time, even beyond their training, at least in my experience with the cops in the specific departments that I've been around and done right along with, they have audits where they will stage a fake call to the police department, have the police department respond to the call. The police have no idea this is a fake call. They have actors put themselves in the situation of maybe a domestic abuse call. And the police have to appear at the site, respond with their standards. And if they don't, they're audited. And this is all taken back to higher ups and they can be placed back into training. They also will redo trainings that they did while they were in the police academy, or before they became police officers, just to check in and see, are we still on the mark here? Are we still aiming high when it comes to upholding standards? - That's what those cops who know those guys, who can see those guys that cut you off the lockers, they know. - Yeah. - They know. - All right, thank you. (clapping) - Hey there. - I know. - Sorry, you were scaring the case. - This is all the reason of the episode. - Most cops are selfless and honorable people. - Now, this is a better prompt. Most cops are selfless and honorable people. - I, yeah, I think I would think that if you're gonna go into law enforcement where you're actively putting your life in danger on any given day at any given moment, there's a certain selflessness to that. Most cops, I think, want to uphold the law, want to do the right thing, only want to arrest people who need arresting. I've seen a lot of cops sit down with troubled kids and say, hey, you know what? I'm not gonna do anything to you right now, but I need to lay out the situation for you and tell you what track you're on in life. And you need to focus on your education, you need to focus on getting healthier friends. Now, sometimes the kids don't always listen, but I think there's something honorable about that as well. The cops that I've witnessed build deep relationships with their community. As they're cruising, riding around, making sure everybody's safe, they're learning everybody's names, they're learning what children they have with LAPD in the specific department that I was at. They have cops, these kids live in such dangerous neighborhoods that they're scared to walk to school. The cops get up in the morning and they will walk the kids to school as many as they possibly can to make sure that they get there safely, walk them back home to make sure that they get home safely. So, I'd argue most cops are selfless and honorable, and that doesn't justify the ones that aren't. (beeping) - I don't think these cops are honorable at all. I think they're just a bunch of cop boys, you know? And we're just the cattle and they're just out here to hurt us and to jail and that's it. You know, we need people to help us, not act like thugs, they're the thugs. To us, they're the scary monsters. - So, why wouldn't somebody like yourself who has those views take on that responsibility to change that system? - I did, you know, when I was a kid, I would always say I want to be a cop or a movie star. Cops made me who I am, by the way I look. I felt like I was a criminal because of the way they acted towards me. You know, until one day I realized, you know, I'm not the bad guy. - Something you don't-- But you're in a show that's one cop versus 20 criminals. What crime did you commit? Did you maybe, in any way, shape or form, commit yourself to an action that may have made police officers view you in that way? - Don't know about me. I grew up in a neighborhood full of criminals. When I was younger, I stole everything I could get my hands on. And in one day, the light clicked on. Because of a police officer, he came up to me and he said, "What are you doing? "What are you doing with your life?" And I watched that police officer take a young kid with that one statement, that one simple statement and change me around to want to go the other direction. And the-- - He goes back to what I was saying. We need more cops like that. That are still the right way. - And that's why I challenge you. And I challenge everybody in this world. I challenge you to teach your children. It might be too late for us all of us. - I am, I'm doing that just by being here. - Challenge your children to take on that debt, to take on that weight. If you see the system as being broken and you stand by and you're silent, you're complicit. We teach the next generation, no, you need to go into this because you need to change it. - And I'm sorry, I got a pause on this guy's face. He's got a teardrop next to his eye. What is that supposed to signal to a police officer? In my opinion or in my experience, it signals that you got a body. You've taken someone's life. You have tattoos all over your head, tattoos all over your neck. You know, people say we shouldn't victim blame, right? And like, if you have a certain appearance, that doesn't justify the way that you're treated. And in many ways, it doesn't. But what are you signaling to the world? And specifically to law enforcement that might make them think that you're a criminal, specifically that you've taken somebody's life. - The next generation or teach the cops? - Well, the cops right now, some of them, that's gonna be a difficult task. - Okay. - The young, the solution will be to just teach the cops, better training, and teach these kids not to be-- - Well, what kind of training would you give them? - Mental training, they need a lot of that. You said they need more training than jiu-jitsu, which I do believe, yeah, you're 100% right, but also the mental training. - I'm in agreement with you there, because the mental stresses of this job are why people are getting, why they're getting super aggressive on the street, a lot of it, not all of it, are why they're getting super aggressive. So we are all victims to becoming what we see. Police see-- - No, we're the victims. - You guys are-- - Well, no, everybody, I'm talking about everybody. - You guys are the predators. This is like the suppressor, oppress narrative. No, we are always the victims. Everybody who lives under law enforcement, we're the victims, you guys are never the victims, you are always the predator. I can point to many victim cops, specifically cops that have had their lives taken while on duty, have been attacked while on duty, have to deal with these dangerous situations while on duty. - Victim of what they say, if you saw death and horror, nobody's calling the cops because they're key graduated high school. - No, you know, you're trying to twist these around, but yeah, the cops do victimize a lot of us, you know, and they make us think that we're just evil people all the time, and so they're not honorable. - But you're victimizing the cops in much the same way. - You're not doing the same thing. - A job like that is an honorable, like shooting people in the back and having your colleagues like get up with it, or make them not imply like-- - They go to jail if they shoot people in the jail. - But there's no honor in being a cop. There's a-- - There's a lot of honor in being a-- - There's a lot of honor in being a cop, and I'm gonna keep leaning on my anecdotal experience, but this is, you can look this up, you can look it to the staff. The different calls that these cops have to attend to, I mean, kids that have died in car accidents, kids that have died being shot by gang members, while I was on a police ride along, somebody was shot about 30 seconds before we got there in the cruiser, a literal dead man on the ground, and cops have to respond to that, and you will watch cops, male, female, and like, completely desensitized to death, because they see it so often, and they see it in the most horrific circumstances, and how he cannot give credence to that, or give a little bit of reverence to the fact that they have to deal with death like this on a daily basis, not to mention the stress that already comes with the job at baseline without these deaths happening. It shows that you're not being logical, and that you're not acting in good faith. If you constantly view yourself as the victim, and you can't, for one moment, step into the shoes of another person, and see that maybe they're going through something too, and it's not just you. Reading. - I'm gonna click on the cops comment about, he said we're all victims, but he meant that in a general sense, like he's appealing to humanity as something that every human being is subject to, when we encounter stressors, when we encounter traumatic situations, that we become a victim of that situation, and the unwillingness on the part of this gentleman to extend that common humanity and that common grace to a police officer just shows that this is not gonna go anywhere, and that is the kind of appeal that can actually foster the sort of progress, the sort of mutual understanding that, move society forward, and that what Jubilee is after here, but if you're willing to look at an entire group of people and say, well, just because you identify with this label, you're not allowed to suffer from traumatic things in a way that affects other people, even though everyone else is, and I understand, of course, when we've talked about it this whole episode, that there should be a higher standard applied to police because of the nature of their job, but just the failure to just relate as a human being when the cop is trying to do that, is just as kind of like an asymmetry, and I wonder if it's because of media narratives, I wonder if it's because of just kind of internalized issues or hatred toward the police that is causing him to respond in this way, but I think that was very telling. Also, just gotta say it's a little bit ironic to hear self-professed criminals lecture a cop on the idea of honor. - Yeah, like what, what are you talking about? - I'll share more stories about what I've seen in my ride-alongs with LAPD, and in my time with LAPD as we continue through this episode, 'cause I have so much more to talk about on this topic. I don't know why we can't step into each other's shoes here, and I'm sure this guy had very bad encounters with police officers, and that's what he's basing his opinion off of, but he needs to be able to step outside of his own encounters to gain a little bit of ground here. - You can't give any man any power like that, and then not abuse it. - When you're willing to give your life for somebody who doesn't, you don't know, who hates you, when you're willing to do that, that's honor. - I think they do it for fun, honestly. - No, nobody's willing to give their life for fun. - I feel like I have to say about that. - You think they do it for fun? - I'm like, that's dumb-founding, absolutely insane to hear. (bell ringing) - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Okay. - I think a more selfless and honorable career would be like social workers or something that's not so rooted in violence and power. - There can be multiple selfless and honorable careers. You know, one doesn't cancel out the other. How do you determine what's more honorable? - I mean, if you want to help people - They've tried that. - They've tried to make social workers first responders and it doesn't work. 'Cause a social worker is going to take two or three days to show up to a domestic dispute. Doesn't work. - Yeah. - Okay. They might be coming in as a secondary response, as a second responder. But first responders are your soldiers. They're your frontline soldiers. - Why do we eat soldiers in our own country? - I don't know, because people have guns and weapons or they harm other people or they're robbing other people or they're infringing on the rights of other people and harming them. So I think there's police officers that need to respond. And this whole social worker argument, let's lay this out for a second. Let's say I call the police and say, my boyfriend is hitting me right now. I'm scared he's gonna kill me. And they say, I'm gonna send a socially worker your way. This is somebody who's not trained to de-escalate situations, is not trained to maneuver around an apartment or a house that they do not know, to check for weapons, to see if somebody is going to put them or me in harm's way. So you send a social worker to what? Talk about the situation that you're dealing with right now. They can't detain anybody. They most likely don't have the strength to do so, even if they could. Police officers come in to hopefully de-escalate a situation. Now bad apples will escalate the situation or bad criminals will escalate the situation and then police officers have to respond in kind. But police officers are meant to create a safe environment, rid the area of criminals and perpetrators so that social work can come and do their job after that. Situations have to be de-escalated before we move in and start talking about our feelings. It's just ridiculous to think that social workers should show up on these scenes. And the amount of police officers that have shown up to a domestic abuse call and have gotten stabbed or shot or have been caught in the middle of a fight being punched in the face, that would not work with social workers. I don't know how you could think that. The social worker argument, to me, it stems from this kind of utopian mindset that there are no people, no criminals that will inflict violence if they are not stopped with violence. And that's, I'm sorry, that's just not reality. Now, thankfully, it's a small percentage of people who are criminals who are violent, who will inflict violence unless they are stopped with violence as we've seen from like repeat offending rates and things like that in major cities. But this utopian mindset does not translate to reality. And it is the Lulu Cuckoo for Coco Puffs to think that we do not need, in society, someone who was willing to answer the bell when there is a violent person who is threatening public safety, who is actively murdering or harming someone that needs to be confronted. And it is inherently courageous and honorable to be someone who is willing to answer the bell on behalf of society, to expose yourself to that violence, and to stand in between peaceful citizens and the violent criminals and say, I'm going to take on the risk of confronting this myself. So yes, it is noble to wanna go into social work and there is an amount of honor that is, do people who want to invest their lives in bettering other people, but to pretend that same amount of honor, if not more honor, is due to police officers who are putting their lives on the line in a much more direct way, putting themselves in the line of fire in a much more direct way, it's deluded. - Not to mention, there's little to no accountability if you send in a social worker. Police officers are trained in the law, in most cases, they can come into a situation, document what's happening. They will take pictures of the victim, they will take care of the situation and get it in a safe position so that they can send you over to social workers later, which, sure, I'm sure many people need, especially when police officers are responding to their crime and things go crazy, but we don't send social workers first. - It's not supposed to be united. - Okay, just all you gotta do is tell the criminals to stop doing crime. - Okay. - All right, so if you can get the criminals to stop doing crime, we can get rid of the police. - Okay, and that's exactly what you should say to somebody who's like giving their utopian view of the world as soon as you get bad people to stop doing bad things, then we'll get rid of police. - Yeah. - Okay. Subhan. Thank you. (audience applauding) - So I have a personal story, actually. I'm from like the North San Diego area and a friend of mine, she was actually trying to be a sheriff with the San Diego Sheriff's apartment. And she told me a story, how like when she was going through the academy stuff, how her instructors, her peers, she was dealing with like a lot of sexual harassment. So when you tell me that all officers are most, most, most, most are selfless and honorable, how do we tell a difference between those people and the people who were harassed in my friend? And countless other female officers and maybe even male officers too. I don't know. So I did serve at one point, I'm also an army. So I know like it happens-- - So you know about morale gear. - I do, but I know like it happens, you know, and you gotta like-- - This is a slang term used in the military referring to a female that is promiscuous with the males in her unit. - You gotta check your people. So you can tell me that all cops or most cops, right? Or just these honorable and selfless people, like what do you say about that? - So you're talking about specifically with sexual harassment. Female officers are so essential to police departments now because I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't wanna, I don't wanna have to, I can't go search a female. So we need those female officers to do that stuff. Most female officers I know are dynamite at what they do. They are way tougher than I am. So here's the big problem with sexual harassment. I'm gonna tell you what happens. You're in a highly male dominated field. The female police officers, they feel like they, they need to be one of the boys. So they start engaging in conversation that is not applicable or not appropriate for the workplace. And then what happens, the other officers give it back. Somebody gets pissed off. Next thing you know, there's sexual harassment. In the police academy, that's kind of a different thing. - So I like anecdotal evidence is not very helpful because we can like sort of spin the scenario in any way we want to. You would have to provide more empirical data about sexual harassment happening within police forces. And even so, guess what you have? In HR department, you can go report people. Now he's specifically talking about a girl who's in the academy. I'm sure there's avenues to go and talk about your peers and say I'm experiencing this and trust, they will be dealt with. And if they're not, that's a whole separate problem. So I'm not really sure what he's getting to. - How's it different? - Because these are young, these are, I'm not saying it's right. - It isn't right, but these are the instructors who have years of experience teaching these people. - Oh, I was talking specifically about the other recruits. Okay, the instructors, no, that's never okay. The world is not a perfect place. - I know it isn't, but it sets up that example. You know, like a lot of people don't want to get in there. - What about doctors that hit on their nurses? What about administrators that hit on teachers? What about, you know, like how many different occupations would deal with issues of sexual harassment? When I went independent, I had to do a sexual harassment training. In case I tried to sexually harass Taylor. Okay, so these things happen. You go and you go and make a complaint, okay? And hopefully the hierarchy that exists at your job deals with that, it doesn't substantiate whether or not most cops are honorable and selfless. - The officers let alone serve or do anything for their country because of stuff like that. And it's really prevalent in police armaments I feel like 'cause just from the example, I told you about how my friend, how she dealt with that. - So like I had said earlier, somebody like your friend sees a problem in there. Now if she's on the inside, it's her-- - But she feels like she can't speak up because it's like she's gonna get retaliated against-- - Go ahead quick, quick, Poco. - Have her call, have her call me. I will teach her how to use her voice very loudly. - I understand that, but it's not that simple for most people. So you can-- - Well, then you shouldn't be a police officer because the actual occupation requires that you declare yourself that you are forceful with people if necessary and that you can stand up for yourself. So if you can't stand up for yourself and you're like a meek woman who's dealing with all this sexual harassment, but just letting people do it to you, I just don't know how that's gonna work out for you on the force. And I mean, there's plenty of other avenues you could band together with other female officers, you could go to a female administrator, you could go to higher ups at your department and specifically seek out a woman in hope that she can understand the situation that you're going through. If you're not able to advocate for yourself, how is somebody else gonna be able to do it? - See like most officers on the outside, like I don't know you, I assume like you're a good person, but then we don't know-- - Most days. - Most days, we don't know like how an officer is gonna treat like a female or like another male or something like-- - It's just like any other job, okay? Just like all those things. - So when I go in and order a pizza, I'm more likely to get harassed or like profiled or you treat it differently for ordering a pizza. - No, no, no, no. - So go into a corporate office setting. Sexual harassment has run rampant over the years. - Yeah, but there's no-- - Because it's Hollywood. - You don't get shot for it. You don't get-- - Literally she didn't get shot for it. - Well she didn't, but like it's a thing like-- - Well she didn't, but let me try to make my point again. She didn't get shot. She's actually perfectly well and alive right now, but let me try to still make my point. - Your career can end, but the stakes are higher with police officers because of what you guys can do like and your training. - Now think about it from a male's perspective. If I see a female getting harassed, first of all, it's my duty to speak up, correct? And I would speak up and I have spoken up, but think about most male police officers. If they speak up, they're gonna be ostracized. They're gonna be a pariah. - Do you guys have like a system in place then for like representatives that can go like these females or males or whoever can go and talk and say like, "Hey, I'm being harassed against." Or is it the internal? - Yes. - Is it an internal thing, internal investigation, the same thing? - I believe there's a couple different. I can't speak to every place in the country, but I believe there's internal policies in place where they can follow. - All right, great job. (bell dings) - That's close. - I appreciate you being here. My guess is you're probably a reasonable cop 'cause most unreasonable cops probably wouldn't have come out here. So I appreciate you here to try to help change 'cause that's why I'm here as well. You talk about the majority of cops being honorable, selfless people. Why are we seeing so many incidences over and over and over on the news daily across the country? Why do we see so many examples if it is just such a few bad apples? - Because a cop going and saving a two year old with CPR is not newsworthy, not on a national level. A cop going and helping an old lady in with her groceries. That is not newsworthy. Those are the majority of the calls. But what is newsworthy is that cop who does something they're not supposed to land in, it's baboon. This is what every station in the world covers. They do not cover 99.9999% of what police do, but they'll cover that point 001% of what police do, especially when it's wrong. That's all you're seeing. You're being fed that information. Well, we're seeing a ton of it. So if there's just a few. - Not a ton. - We are every single day. We are seeing it on the news every day. - So there's 70. - It can't be a few bad apples. - So there's 700 approximately 700,000 police officers. You're seeing the .001, which is still a lot. Say it's 70, still a lot, right? - It's more than we should have. - It's still a lot. But I want to hear any other profession in the world where you're being judged on that .001. - This profession is different. You guys have weapons. You guys are in a position of power. You guys are doing things that normal jobs. Hey, I can't categorize than office guys. Oh, there's shitty office guys. I don't care if there's shitty office guys. You have a different role. You're there to protect and serve our communities. So I don't buy the. - I mean, there's so many. Obviously the weapons argument. Yeah, sure. They should be held to a higher standard because they have weapons. I mean, doctors have scalpels and deadly drugs and all of these different things and engage in malpractice and negligence. We're not talking about that at the same rate. We've got all these messed up teachers running around in our education system. They're also unionized. Very difficult to fire a teacher in a lot of cases. That is not necessarily talked about at the same rate that we talk about police officers. We got bad lawyers out there and bad judges out there that are, you know, maybe placing people on death row. That's loss of life and maybe they shouldn't be there. Not talked about at the same rate as we talk about police officers. There's a ton of big samples here. So we either hold everybody to the same standard or we admit that we're giving differential treatment to police officers. And he really, I like that he's focusing on how many police officers exist out there. How many encounters do we have every single year? Millions of encounters and you're seeing a handful on the television of bad cops doing bad things. Sometimes, not necessarily. Sometimes they're justified in what they're doing and the media still runs with it or Black Lives Matter runs with it and this whole narrative is created about the policing profession, which instills hatred for cops in our society and then creates more attention and puts cops on the back foot when it comes to doing their jobs because they're scared of the heat that they receive on the other end of an action that may or may not have been justified but specifically actions where they are justified. So maybe we need to learn the full scope of things and it's okay, we should go after the bad apples, throw the book at them, put them in jail to be placed in jail but to paint all cops in that light, not helpful. - The small, bad apple theory from my experience, it was the majority were on a power trip and treated people shitty over time and that's messed up. - You're asking cops to be perfect. - No, I'm asking them to be reasonable. - You are asking cops to be perfect. - No, I didn't say that. - If you're asking to get rid of that zero or one percent, 'cause that's what it is, that's what you're asking and that's an unreasonable reason. - No, it's not what I'm asking. Why is there so much prevalence of it if it's only a few bad apples? That's the part that's bullshit. - 'Cause 70's still a lot. Like I said, the 700,000 police officers in the country, if you're seeing 70 stories about bad police officers, think about the percentages on that one. Listen, I'd love to have zero. I would love to have zero. - Yeah, I think they'd fire 'em after a one or two. No, they don't, most do not. Until Derek Chauvin murdered that dude, George Floyd, people were not being held accountable. - Cops were not being held accountable. - That's not true. - We've already witnessed multiple examples. - That's not true. - You go from division to division. - See, when they talk in these extreme cases, you have an argument on your side here that it is very difficult to hold a lot of bad cops accountable. I've heard stories that I cannot even share with you if things that cops have done. And then they go through this whole length, the investigation and they end up being fired and never actually convicted of crimes that they've committed on the job. That's your winning argument that we should do more about those things, but you also need to be reasonable about the extent to which these things are happening. And so far, not many have been reasonable to that degree. - And that's absolutely not true. That is a false statement. - We see it every single day. - That is a statement straight out of the news media's mouth. - It's not a false statement. - It absolutely is. - You're telling me there's police officers before Derek Chauvin had no accountability. - Very little. - No, very little. - Wrong. - Very little accountability. - Wrong. - Yes, that was the first cop that I can think of in my lifetime that actually went to prison for the crime he committed. - There's tons of others. - We haven't ever seen it. - They've made movies about it. - We haven't ever seen it. So the point is-- - Then you're not looking hard enough. - No, my point is there's not just a few bad apples. That's a bullshit excuse fed by other police officers. Why is this happening over and over and over? If there's just a few. - You're being fed the worst of the worst because that's what's newsworthy. - I'll see positive things in the news as well. My point is it's not a few bad apples. It's a large majority. Criminal has become hardened over time because we deal with cops often. Cops also have that same exact thing. You go to ride, you cruise around, you target people, you do your thing. And over time, you don't like dealing with us. And so you start to become hardened. And what do you do? The next clown that shows up to get trained, you're pushing your shit on him. And then there's a pile of you guys. That is again, a very irresponsible generalization. Cops do get hardened over time. - I believe you. - Cops do get hardened over time because we see so much. If you were exposed to death on a daily basis, you would become hardened too. Now here's the big problem. And this is one of gonna be the big game changer. There is a lack of mental health training inside police departments. - That's not my fault. - They hired here. - When did I say it was your fault? - My point is you can't blame it on mental health. I'm not letting me get to my point. This is never going anywhere unless you let me get to the point. So here's the problem because mental health inside police departments has a huge stigma to it. So when I got on, if I went to my boss and say, hey, listen, I'm having some really, really wicked nightmares. You know what they're gonna do? They're gonna take my gun. They're gonna put me on desk duty. When really all I need is to go talk to somebody. - That's institutional problems on the police force. I'm talking about-- - But you're asking me why we're seeing this all the time. - See, that's crazy to present a possible solution to police officers that end up in these situations of utilizing lethal force when they should in or being a little bit too aggressive with people and say, okay, maybe we should have some mental health facilities and resources for specifically for police officers, which some departments do from what I hear, at least from first-hand accounts of police officers. A lot of them are a little iffy about going for psychiatric evaluation or talking to a mental health specialist because they don't wanna be placed on leave at their job. They don't wanna be taken away from the neighborhoods in which they're policing. So clearly, at least for some, there are some structural issues in there that need to be dealt with. But to be presented with the solution of maybe we need more mental health resources for him, and then he goes, that's not my problem. As if anybody ever said that to you, it's crazy. It's kind of going to show that you don't necessarily want solutions. You just wanna be able to call people out. You just wanna be able to vent your frustrations on this guy. - I'm telling you. - I'm telling you. - I'm telling you why. - We're also making a claim that they're honorable and selfless. I find it very interesting that honorable and selfless people have the highest divorce rate of any other profession that seems pretty odd. I don't see a ring. - Not seeing you're married, but (laughs) - Police officers are working lengthy shifts. Lengthy shifts. They're dealing with stressful situations. They're seeing death on a daily basis. They have to go from high adrenaline situations back home to a wife and children, calm themselves down, deal with the nightmares, the anxieties, deal with everything they see, the heartlessness in which criminals treat other people in these communities. There's so many things that could maybe lead to a high divorce rate amongst police officers. Mixed in with, of course, bad police officers who are on a power trip, who use that same power trip that they have in their profession into their marriages, but to just jump and say you have a high divorce rate because you're dishonorable is not giving the proper view of the situation. And still, the proper view can pedestalize the things that you think about bad officers, but it doesn't write off every single bad officer as a bad person. - I find that very interesting as well. - How many men are willing to get a tattooed on them? - A few. Most of them are criminals. (audience applauds) Most police officers do not racially profile black and brown people. (beeping) - Most police officers do not racially profile black and brown people. It's a tough thing to answer because you also have like the crime rates in these specific communities happen to be higher. If I get a call and say we got a black suspect and a red shirt running away with a firearm or whatever, I'm not gonna go look for a white man. So I don't know how exactly that would work. I would argue that is racial profiling to a certain extent, but it's kind of logical in many cases. Now, for cops that are going out and just stopping black people and brown people for no reason, which I'm sure happens to a certain extent, that's not reasonable and it's not justified. But in some cases, it is. But people don't like to hear that. - Yeah, well, I just agree with that. I think you guys get trained to do that. And on top of that, you humiliate our people. The brown and the blacks, that's your job. I don't know how many months you get trained for them, but you're pretty much there to degrade us. - What training on planet earth would have us racially profile black and brown people? - It goes without saying. I mean, that's just how you guys are. - No, you said training. I'm gonna hold you to that statement. What training do we get to racially profile black and brown people? - You say that the training or you guys are just like that? So I'm assuming from your statement that you've been racially profiled because you're brown. - I mean, they happen all the time. I mean, I think that's the only reason why they would stop me because of the color of my skin. - Not the teardrop that's underneath your eye. The only reason they would stop me is because of the color of my skin. Not the head tattoos, not the neck tattoos. Not the obvious sort of gangster look that you have on with the full chain and everything. It's just the color of my skin. - I mean, I'll just be walking down the street, especially when I'm with my kids, you know? Like, that's the part that I hated the most, being humiliated in front of my family and kids. - Okay, have you ever done anything wrong prior to this where you didn't get caught? - I'm just be like, I was innocent each time they stopped me. - Not when they stopped you prior to them stopping you. Have you ever done anything wrong? - Of course, you know, no one's perfect. - Okay, so- - I was innocent each time they stopped me, he says the teardrop tattoo. I mean, that is what you would expect. Yeah, he was innocent every single time he was stopped. I'm having a hard time believing that and it could be true, but look at the facade that you're putting on that might make somebody believe that it's not true. Take a little bit, a little bit of accountability. - So how many times would you say on a percentage, did you do something wrong where they didn't stop you? - I mean, very low. - But that has happened, correct? - Yeah, it has happened. - Okay, so why can't police make a claim on the other side of that, that they didn't get you when they should have? - You know, I just feel like these cars, they don't have any remorse for our people. You know, if they just come to our neighborhoods and leave and they cost more damage than they come. - So what neighborhood are you from? Let me start there. - I'm from South Central LA. - You're from South Central LA and there's a lot of good people in South Central LA. Am I correct? - Yeah, okay. - Can you imagine what kind of life it would be if the police were not in there and you have certain people looking to do harm, certain people looking to do good, certain people just trying to rape? - All right. - We'll talk after that here. (bell dings) - So the prior debaters made a claim about your training and I heard your response was, so what neighborhood you're from? Why not community? Why the choice of word was neighborhood. - Does neighborhood have a negative connotation to it? It's a pretty neutral word. What neighborhood are you from? Sorry, what community? What do you, what village of kind people do you reside in? I'm like, what do you prefer you say? - Because that's how I grew up and we grew up by neighborhoods. If you would rather me say community, I'm not beholden to the word neighborhood. - Awesome. So what they do say not say, okay, question. You said you don't pick and choose black and brown. Why do the numbers show that the most incarcerated are black and brown? - Do you really want the answer to that? (laughs) Oh, you're open to this, a certain can of worms there. I don't know if you want the answer. I think my face said the answer to that, so I'm not gonna get to do it. - A lot of it has to come from economics, okay? Those people with good lawyers are more likely gonna be able to get off. That's the legal system. The legal system is run by human beings. And the one universal truth about human beings is they're flawed, they're flawed. So the reason that there are more black and brown people in the system like that is maybe because they're of lower social economical class and they cannot afford to hire the high price attorneys. Now, sticking to the same topic of training. - There's more reasons than that, although that is a reason. Your socioeconomic status is definitely going to impact how you go through the court system. If you can hire an attorney or like a defender who's of a high price, they're gonna put form or work into your case, looking through the evidence, putting together the best possible defense for you. If you don't have money for that and you are just strapped up with a public defender, you're on the back foot for that entire scenario. And that is an issue in a lot of ways, but it is unfortunately, the way the cookie crumbles in a lot of ways. But also, let's look into the crime rates of the communities that he referenced and specifically violent crime rates, armed robberies, murders, domestic violence, battery, assault, much higher amongst black and brown people. And that is just the truth. - Right, now just add the economic argument makes sense when we're talking about convictions and sentencing, but it wouldn't make sense when we're talking about arrests at encounters. And we see generally, as far as I'm aware, the same proportions as, you know, with demographically on the encounter and arrest. And so you'd have to come up with an explanation for that. But like you said, before I'm not sure this guy wants to go there. - Yeah, and he was very charitable in his answer to the cop. He could have definitely gone a little further, but. (air whooshing) - Wait a minute. (laughing) (bell dinging) - That sounded good again. - That sounded good again. - Honestly, I may be opposed to a lot of people's beliefs here. - I agree with you. Most cops that I've seen for, if we're talking about the word most, generality, I've seen more cops be good than none. I mean, than bad, but at the same time, in Los Angeles, it was just this part, this thing called the gang unit division. And majority of them are bad. Majority I've seen encountered horrible cops. They put a bad name on just cops period. And I've seen cops allow it, but honestly, I feel like I agree with her saying that for the most part. - Let's talk about that. - So I have an experience in a few different departments, Vice in Gang's unit, as far as the police department here in this city, not specifically in the city, outside of the city. I won't get into specifics there. And I could understand his argument that maybe different cops of different units have different temperaments. If you're a vice cop and you're constantly responding to maybe like prostitution calls, specifically in LA on Figueroa, they're all types of women, just in little to no clothing on the side of the street who are prostituting themselves and they are acting on the orders of pimps and vice cops are trying to deal with that. I've seen a lot of them have like a very mild kind temperament because they're dealing with a lot of abused women all day long and sometimes abused minors with the gang's unit. You're talking about people who are dealing often with armed individuals. They're responding to very violent situations in the case of the shooting that I saw on my ride along. It was a gang taking out a snitch and they actually hunted this man down and shot him while he was driving a car. The car crashed, they shot him and finished the job. So I can imagine the temperament of a cop within the gang's unit is probably a little bit more hardened due to the things that you're experiencing. And at certain times it can probably be difficult to respond with a normal temperament knowing that there's maybe a little higher risk, a larger target on your back than cops in other departments. So I think there's something in that argument. Again, I like that he said most of his encounters with cops have been good encounters rather than bad encounters but these are things we should talk about. The different units have different experiences. - There's a couple of big things in what you said there. Number one, nobody hates a bad cop worse than a good cop and that's the truth because that brings me to the second point where we are all in this room, we are all judged by our lowest common denominator. If somebody with black skin did me wrong, am I gonna have a favorable view against black people? Probably not, probably not. If you had a cop treat you a certain way, are you gonna have a favorable view of cops? Probably not. But most cops, I'm telling you most cops are out there trying to do a job the best they can. They're trying to go home and support their family and live the best life. What's your talk? - Boss, believe we've been voted out. - Let's go vote it out. (bell dings) - I think you guys do racially profile us. Yeah, I give you guys that. Okay, the majority gang members are Hispanics and blacks. Okay. You got that like gang members yourself? You talk to us, we're slangs too? - What's slang do we use? - I'm speaking post too, of course we do. - Yeah, they teach you guys that, just attack blacks and Hispanics. - Oh, wait a second, okay. I'm gonna lean on my experience again. Inside the police department that I'm familiar with, you go into the gang's division of the police department or the police station. They will have literally on the wall pictures of gang members with their legal name, their street name. Because oftentimes gang members have nicknames, they have specific slang that they use to refer to certain things that they are doing within their gangs. So the fact that police officers are throwing slang at you within your community is actually a very good sign that they're getting to know the people in the community, they're understanding the slang that is used and trying to utilize that while they are on the job. You'll see some police officers, when you talk to them at the station, they have a very like normal voice or whatever, they go out on the streets, the people they're policing, they talk to them in the same slang that they use and it does actually build rapport. It lets them know, I've been around the block, I know you, you know me. Oftentimes they're very cordial in their use of slang, maybe he's talking about something different, but it is extremely important. If you're policing a certain community with certain slang, certain nicknames, they need to be well-versed with every single person who they're dealing with to the best of their abilities. So it's kind of a non-argument, unless he's talking about a more negative aspect of that. And he argues that police officers sort of act like gangs, maybe because they all work together, they're wearing a uniform and they're policing people, but I'm sure they wouldn't be doing all that much if other people weren't in gangs. And the gang networks within these neighborhoods are extensive. I'm talking about one street in a whole neighborhood streets will be allocated to a specific gang. That gang runs that street. It could be a Mexican gang, it could be a black gang, sometimes Asian, sometimes white, although far rarer than, you know, black and brown people being parts of these gangs. And if you're part of a rival gang that's on the next block or the next block after that, and you show up on their block, you're gonna get into an altercation, you're gonna get shot, they are dealing with kids at the ages of like what, 12, 13, 14, 15. Coming together in a park, at a basketball court or whatever, and literally jumping other children into gangs. I have seen videos of this with my own eyes. Children punching each other in the face, knocking them out, all at once, 10 kids coming at you and beating you senseless, dragging your limp body, taking your clothes off, leaving you there on the floor, and now you're initiated into a gang. This is what police officers have to become accustomed to. This is the sort of culture within gang-ridden communities that they have to learn. And of course that's going to involve slang. And I guess they may come off to you as a gang if they've been being particularly violent or aggressive with you, but you kinda gotta do what they gotta do. - No, they seem like it sometimes. - Most of the time. - You're allowed that time. - You're allowed to believe whatever you wanna believe. But I'm telling you, there is no police academy in the world that treats going after this race as opposed to this race. - Unless they are told it's a guy of this race. And that's what we have on report. In fact, again, with the police department I'm familiar with, when they go and they arrest somebody, there's extensive paperwork they have to do. And now they actually have to fill out paperwork about profiling, where it asks the cop, you know, what was the race of the person that you thought you would be responding to in the call? Did you assume that this person was of a certain race, all these different questions to sort of weed out the racial profiling? Now, I'm not sure that it happens in all departments, but cops trust, especially in our year 2024. Do you not wanna get accused of racial profiling? - Did they teach you guys too, or what's the difference between an ex-gang member and an active gang member? - No. - There are people that are gang-- - The cops that I know know the difference. Okay, now, of course, these things change. And a lot of times, gangs do not want you to be an ex-gang member. And that's a whole struggle you have to go through, where men try to leave these situations, men and women, 'cause women aren't gangs now, they try to get out of these situations, and the gang tries to pull them back in, or they put a hit out on them, or if they're detained by police officers and they snitch on other members of the gang, there you go, huge target on your back, like the guy that I saw literally die after he snitched on somebody. - Members, but change your life too. And we're still getting pulled over. - Those are the people I love. However, however, if you get pulled over and you're doing nothing wrong, you need to thank the police. I'm gonna tell you why, 'cause they're looking out for you. They're looking out for your community. I'll change my verbiage on that one. They're looking out for your community in order to get those who haven't found their way, such as those reform gang members, to try to maybe change their way, to make an impact on them. So they should be thanked. - It happens to me. I ask, "Why are you pulling me over?" They don't even have an answer. Lots of the time they don't. Like, they don't have nothing to say. Obviously, I know 'cause of my looks. I know. - So, walls might be different in California, but in New Jersey, you always get told why you're pulled over. - Exactly. - I'm a keen person. You what you guys see is this and my skin couldn't. That's all, you know-- - If you got pulled over by a cop and they didn't tell you why they were pulling you over, that's wrong. They're supposedly obligated to tell you exactly the reason why they're pulling you over. And there are certain things that they have to tell you before they move forward in any sort of investigation. If they wanna search your car, pull you out of the car, arrest you for any reason, you get your Miranda rights and you definitely get told why they are doing the action that they're doing. Now, of course, there are bad cops that decide not to do those things. But you would hope that even in a bad experience with a police officer, that either's body cam footage, you can film these encounters yourself and you are obligated to do that. That is within your right. And if they don't like read you your Miranda rights or let you know why you've been arrested, the court system should filter that out and they should be held accountable. And oftentimes people can get off on crimes that they have actually committed because police officers don't give them the Miranda rights. - Also my tattoos, you guys see that. That's when you guys pull up. Yeah, but who's looking at your color? - So if I go to a neighborhood that's heavily brown or black, are people gonna look at me? - The police wanna hear almost rarely and never pull you over over here. - Oh, that's not true. - Yes, that's true. - That's absolutely not true 'cause I've been pulled over. - Yeah, okay. - But in a nicer weekend, yeah, that. - Oh, no. - Pull over, get your hands in the air. - You're making a dangerous assumption there, my friend. That is not true. I was driving through Alpine, New Jersey, which is one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in New Jersey. I was in an infinity, which was my buddy's car. And I got pulled over and I got ripped out of the car. I didn't have a problem with it. If you're not doing anything wrong and you get stopped, then nothing's gonna happen to you. - Are they doing better? - It's just like, it's not always the case. These people are gonna have anecdotal evidence of things that, you know, I wasn't doing anything wrong and a cop hit me or I wasn't doing anything wrong and they pointed a gun at me or a taser at me. I wasn't doing anything wrong and dah dah dah dah. All you have to say, that's not right. That should not happen. The law states that that should not happen. Those cops should be dealt with. Let's talk about what the majority of cops are doing. - Here's this. When you get embarrassed every day, that stuff you gotta get over. I got embarrassed. I got pulled out of the car. - Okay, cops. So you've been puttin' down. (laughing) (clapping) (phone ringing) - I just wanted to touch on how you said it's embarrassing to be pulled out of your car or it was an embarrassing thing. It's terrifying for some people, especially people that feel like they're being racially profiled and they have a disadvantage to begin with. But, well, I've been interacting with police. I'm terrified. It's not embarrassing. It's scary and I'm white. So, I mean, I can't imagine where it makes people feel it's kind of rasping. - Well, I imagine there's a little bit more embarrassment if you're a man getting pulled out of a car than if you are a woman. I don't know that that has been her experience in policing, but yeah, it can be a scary situation. When anybody who is exercising an authority over you pulls you over, I've been terrified getting pulled over by police officers and then they were perfectly nice. Or had bad situations with a police officer that didn't end in any sort of way. They just had a bad temperament or a bad attitude. Not fun, not cool. Definitely makes you scared. I don't know that we want to make them less scary. We would want them to respond in kind. If you're pulling someone over for a traffic violation, which can go wrong in some situations and have gone around for cops, where they've been killed in a traffic situation, I think we should all mitigate our temperaments. But as I said, I've stated reasons why that can be difficult. - I think it's right. The way the cops handle situations when there's no immediate threat. - Why are you terrified? - 'Cause it's scary. You guys are overpowered if you don't have, what are we gonna do? - We don't fight fair. Police aren't paid to fight fair. - Yeah. - Okay, we're not, this isn't take off your badge and put your gun down. That's not this, this is a job. - Of course. - Our job is to protect the streets. And if we see something, we're pulling you over. We're not pulling you over for no reason. We're pulling you over because we have something. Or we're looking for something. You might not be that person, but we're looking for something. So there is no reason to be terrified, okay? I've watched this. Cops driving down the street and parents picked their kids up. What are you teaching that kid? The fact that you're terrified is on whoever taught you to be terrified. That's on them. Because police are there to protect you. They're not there to terrorize you. - I just ran into some bad ones then I guess. 'Cause I've been in the right and not there anything. I'm still scared. - What do you do for a living? - What do I do for a living? I do only fans. - You do only fans. Okay, are there some less than ethical only fans people? - Sure, it's kind of a sex, we're gonna street, so. - It's the world at 10%. 10% of every profession in the world is unethical. - Yeah, I don't think it's all, I don't know where that stat comes from, but all police. - I just think that 99% of stats are made up on the spot. - I don't know, especially when you get your partners, they're partnered up. You guys kind of have this little, I don't know. I just witnessed a lot of high school. - 'Cause we don't fight fair. We have radios to call other people, so we don't have to fight fair. - All right, boss, you've been blown out. Thank you. - The argument shouldn't necessarily be that we don't fight fair. And maybe that's just like a miswording of the situation. You would want to establish fairness. The argument is that it is fair to respond with aggression and violence to somebody who is giving you aggression and violence. And if she was pulled over at a traffic stop and she's being perfectly normal, it would be fair to be perfectly normal back to them. So you would be fighting fair in that situation. And he's arguing that he is a cop who fights fair. So either improper wording, or just a very bad argument. (dramatic music) (bell dinging) - He's going. - Hey, Kevin. - How are you? - Good, you seem very nice. I don't personally know if you have ever judged someone based on their race, their ethnicity, their skin color, maybe just their appearance in general. I mean, I judged you, everyone judges appearances. The moment I saw you walk in, I knew you were the cop. You're white, American flag tattoo. You arrived early. - Dude, as long as you are not exercising power over somebody or like infringing on their rights based off of the judgment that you've made off of profiling them, it's okay to profile. I ordered groceries last night. I ordered a watermelon. And an Asian couple delivered me that watermelon and I thought this is gonna be a good watermelon. Asian women specifically know how to pick a good watermelon. I cut it open this morning, it's a damn good watermelon. I recently profiled them. I made, I looked at their race and I profiled them. In the same way, when I order Instacart and a man is doing my grocery shopping, I know I'm gonna get tomatoes in a bag instead of the catch up that I ordered, okay? I've profiled them based off of their sex. And based off of an inference, that men aren't typically good at doing grocery shopping. And damn right, I'll order vegan cheese and they come over and give me a bucket of sour cream. Okay, you know, we make these inferences. Of course, those are mild inferences that don't result in harm, okay? But we do do these things. I'm glad that she's admitting that she did the same thing to him. - I judge you, you judge others. We all do it. - I agree. - I think there are a lot of cases where cops are heavily influenced by those around them. - Everybody's influenced. Were you alive during 9/11? - No. - I got a front row seat to 9/11. I saw the towers burning, I saw the towers fall. Now, there's a large Indian population in New Jersey. Guess who was getting it worse? Indian people because their skin tone was similar to the people who flew the airplanes into the tower. Not by cops, by everybody, everybody's side item. We all do that. But if you're gonna treat me with respect, you will get the utmost respect for me. But if you're gonna be a dick to me, boy, I can sure be a dick. And I think that's rules to live by in everyone's life. - You can see that. But you are not all cops. You represent a small portion. - Well, certainly he's not. (bell ringing) - I hate cops. - Are you? - All the men who are dropping in the comments that they do Instacart and now they know they're being judged. (laughing) It is a running joke amongst women that we are terrified of getting a male Instacart deliverer. (laughing) Now, of course it's not-- - I have no idea. - This is a very real thing. Somebody posted on TikTok, I'm quaking. I ordered an Instacart and a man is picking up the groceries. (laughing) Now, guys, I'm sure you guys are perfectly good grocery shoppers, okay? But the stereotypes exist for a reason. Are you racist? - No, but y'all is. - No, no. You said you hate cops. Are you racist? - I hate them. All of them. I killed my cousin for no reason. - So, the reason I ask if you're racist because the definition of racism is treating a group of people differently by the way they look or what they do actually, it's bigotry, okay. - She's got a very aggravated demeanor. I don't know if this is gonna go well. - You said you hate cops because you had a bad interaction with a cop or a small group of cops. - So, for you to hate a group of people by the interactions based on one person, it's irresponsible. - It is? - Yes. - You should take y'all on their bikes. - How so? - Y'all, you can just talk about respect, right? Y'all don't respect us at all. At all. Just like he would say. - That's a bold face lie. - It's not. - Absolutely. - It's not. Y'all judge us by just looking at us. - I think we could bring her down a little bit by just saying I'm sorry to hear that that has been your experience with police officers. Can I hear more about that? And can I maybe present you with another view that I have of police officers and in the work I've done as a police officer that can maybe paint a more holistic picture of your experience and that in no way negates the negative experience that you've had. She says her cousin was shot and killed for no reason. Let's hear more about that. - I don't have to do nothing. We don't have to do nothing at all. - And you're 100% sure of that. - I'm 100% sure. - When you're 100% sure is something that's when you proved wrong. - I'm not proved wrong, baby. - Yes, you are. - We go through it every day, all day. So throughout my career, you're telling me that every black person or brown person that I came in contact with, I treated them up forever. - I don't know who you came in contact with, but mostly y'all do. - But you just said all. Now you're going back to most. - I don't like none of y'all to keep honest. I ain't met not one good cop yet. - So what would you do if a white person came up and said I don't like any black people? - That's just opinion. - Just like yours. - Yeah. - Just like yours. Would you say that's an-- - At least she's staying consistent. She said, if you ate black people, that's okay. - A responsible statement? 'Cause I wouldn't-- - No. Everybody got their own opinion. - Until your opinions are changed. - I wouldn't change nothing. I guess none of y'all are. - And that, my friend, is an ideologue. If you say I cannot present you with any sort of evidence that is going to change your mind, you've identified an ideologue, I don't know how much further you can go in the conversation. Of course, if you're a reasonable person, you would say you can present evidence that would make me feel a different way. I'm just waiting to see it because I haven't seen it in my own life. I don't like cops. Y'all treated the black and brown people, very disrespectful, very different. Most of us getting killed every day. - Most of you? - Most of you are getting killed every day. We can go through the stats on that. We've done it in previous videos. You can look at my prior videos on policing. And we've run through police encounters versus fatalities. And it's not you guys getting killed all the time or every day. - Yeah, y'all just killed that lady for no reason. - What lady? - What was her name? - Sony Massey. - Sonya, yeah. - You're making some very dangerous generalities. - No, I ain't. - Yes, you are. - You see these people get interviewed on the street throughout a Black Lives Matter protest and they're like, how many people do you think have been killed by police officers? How many unarmed individuals do you think have been killed by police officers? And they're like, thousands, three thousand. I bet about 10,000 are killed every year. And it's like, I don't know, 19, specifically for Black Lives Matter talking about black unarmed individuals. So it's not happening to most of y'all. And it's certainly not happening every day. - Y'all killed my cousin. - You said most. - How many sex in the park? - So you-- - He had sex with a girl in a park. - You said most. - And they assumed he had a gun by having sex in the park. - Are you assuming somebody had been gun by having sex in the park? - I don't know, maybe he was well endowed. - You should have taken that back. Immediately after saying that, not a place to make a joke. No matter what you think about that subject, especially with what you're trying to achieve here, that should not have been said. - So you said most, 17% of the population, as I said before, is black, okay? So that means out of 320 million, approximately 320 million people in the world. If you do the math, you're looking at about what? I don't know, we'll say a nice round number, 50 to 60 million Black people in the country, okay? That's what the statistics say. Statistics aren't gonna lie on that one. So most of them, that would mean over 30%, that's 25 to 30 million people are getting shot by Black people, or shot by cops. So your claim doesn't hold water? - Doesn't hold water at all. We try to flatten it. Okay, she's reasonable enough to see herself out on that one, 'cause she was very much wrong. And I can understand the anger and frustration if you've had an encounter of a family member that ended in death, and you feel like that was undeserved. If her story is true, and he was just having sex in the park with a girl, that is a criminal offense, you should be detained and arrested for that, but you shouldn't end in a fatality. Now, I don't know what happened between him and the police officer, and what might have led to a fatal shooting in that case, and what could have happened. And I don't trust that she's being fully honest about it, but I will take her at her word. We can say that's an unjustifiable situation, but it's not happening to most black people. (indistinct chatter) (phone rings) - Hello. - How are you? - Good, how are you? - Very good. - I think that opinions and all this is good, but when I was seeing how worked up she was getting and overall it affects our lives. And that's just period point blank. It affects our lives, and that's our family, and then it starts getting into our real lives, and it's reality, and it hits different. So I don't wanna say we hit our cops, but when it's something that it's emotional, it's hard to let go, and so it's a hard opinion to change. - And that's good, and that's good. That's why we're here today. - It's not necessarily good, but at least you're admitting that, that you are being led by your emotions rather than maybe a whole view of what's taking place. And yeah, I imagine with most of these people, especially since they are self-proclaimed criminals, they've had some very negative experiences with police officers, probably because of their actions, but maybe other times not because of their actions. And yeah, maybe you can be ignorant and use that to color your entire view of cops, but you shouldn't be. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Thank you. - I wanna see at least one anti-police activist or somebody that's well-versed in what they're talking about rather than coming with anecdotal experiences, but we haven't gotten one so far. (audience applauds) - My next claim is, police officers should not be judged so harshly. (bell dings) - Yes and no. I mean, like the police officer that shot Sonia Massey in the face should be judged as harshly as possible. When I say throw the book at him, I mean, every single offense that you can get him on, you should get him on. Now, police officers that end up acting in ways that are justifiable, and then the world goes scorched earth on them because they just want blood in this case. Their emotions are guiding them to judge this police officer, even though if you were functioning with logic and looking at the situation with a logical brain, it wouldn't justify the harshness. So I think in some cases, yeah, they shouldn't be judged as harshly as they are, but in other cases, it's wholly justified. I mean, I saw a video a while back. This was years ago of some white guy that was being detained by a police officer, and the police officer's like, get on the ground. Put your left foot over your right foot. Don't move, put your right arm over your left arm. And this police officer ends up shooting this white man in the back and he's dead, he's gone. That police officer should be judged extremely harshly for what he's done. Throw the book at him. So yes and no. - I think you guys should get judged even worse than anybody else. 'Cause you guys are predators. You guys are not serving and protecting. You guys are seeking and destroying. You guys are ripping apart the very fabrics of the community, taking a boy or rights. All police taking most of you guys. - Most of us, most of you guys. - So over 300. - He needs to take them on a ride along. That's what they should've done on a ride along before they came into this debate. So we could have some reasonable conclusions on the other end of this. The police officers that deliver babies when a woman's going into labor out of nowhere, she's stuck in the car or she's stuck on the sidewalk somewhere. The police officers that walk kids to school. The police officers that help people get across the street. The police officers that respond to domestic violence calls and help women get out of these situations. The police officers that are constantly trying to help victims and separate them from perpetrators, they're all, they're predators. - 150,000 police officers. - You can't even tell him. - I'm just telling you. - You said most. - There you go. - There you go, just like everybody else on the field, you guys all have the same complex. The moment you guys are like called out on your shit, quick, well, what? Just like you do, you don't even let me talk. - Feel free, you feel me? - Yes. - Whatever. - You were correct. And I apologize for interrupting you. - Well, he's not fully correct. But at least he apologized for interrupting him. He says, please go on. - And if you guys are lying to yourselves, that you guys are trying to save the world or make a difference, what are you doing with your life? - You could've became a nurse, a doctor, there's oceans to clean, there's pets to save. - So when a nurse is working in the emergency room and she responds to a GSW, a gunshot wound, who perpetrated that? And cops are there to mitigate that situation. Cops are the ones that get the shot individual to the hospital, they're responsible, they play a part in getting the ambulance and getting people to respond to these things appropriately. Who are you to say being a nurse is a more honorable job than literally putting your life in danger, much like nurses do, to help victims of crimes. - They, but you choose to run around with a badge that entitles you to act higher than anybody else. Drive around and avoid traffic 'cause you can flick the lights on. You walk around intimidating people holding your vest, clicking your gun open the moment people invoke their rights and act hostile to you. We don't need you, we have our own rights, we have our own rights to carry, we pay our own taxes. The moment we fucked up is where we let you guys have more power than the people. The very things that you use against us, we pay for that, we pay for your salary. Do you guys go out there freely acting with that badge that you guys can get away with anything over anybody? And you guys justifying 'cause it's your word against ours 'cause you guys are supposed to be honorable people, selfless people, but you guys are not, bro. You guys can't lie to the rest of the world just as much as you can lie to yourselves. You guys are not honorable people, you guys are predators. - Like, what crime did you go to jail for? What crime did you commit? Let me know what ended you up in this category of being a criminal. Are you honorable because you committed a crime? I'm sure you, I'm honorable. I'm the victim. You guys are the predator. These people just do not have nuanced views. And again, your negative experiences stand on their own. You cannot use them to color an entire group of people. - Okay. All right. There's a lot to, there's a lot to unpack there. So you've never been helped by a police officer. Never once. - Not once. - So who do you call when you don't know what to do? - To be honest with you, I've called 911, but I've been rescued by the fire department. I've been extracted from a car by the paramedics, but it wasn't a police that were happening. There wasn't a police officer helping you. Okay, so in smaller departments, everything is routed through the police department. So the police officers are the first ones on scene. So that one person who has no idea where to call, that's what the police are there for. Now does it happen all the time? Obviously not. They seem to have dropped a ball in your life. - And just because you didn't see a police officer, also doesn't mean that a police officer didn't take a role in getting the ambulance in the fire department to you in what you were experiencing. And if you were in a car crash, I imagine highway patrol would have shown up at some point in this conflict that you were experiencing. So to just blanket it, because you didn't see a police officer, doesn't mean that one didn't work on your case. - And for that, I'm gonna tell you right now. I'm sorry and I'll take the hit for all police officers. I'm the one sitting here. I'm the one sitting in the hot seat. And I'm the focus of that anger that you have towards the police department. But judging everybody by your own personal experiences with one, two, maybe a couple of bad apples, of bad police officers, it's really doing a disservice to those people who do have the good intentions. - You guys don't have good intentions. - See, making a general statement like that, it's wrong. - Oh my gosh, it's like arguing with a brick wall. - I mean, why can't you guys do other things with your life? - Because we want to be police officers and we want to help. - You guys are helping them be. - I win, okay, let's tomorrow have every single person in law enforcement go do other things with their lives and see how society fares. See how well things go. See how many people die. See how many people experience situations that they are not equipped to deal with and that social workers can't just jump in and deal with. Let's test your little theory on society and see what happens. - Predators and have a power over everybody. - Like the blood of yourself. - No, no, your statement is false. It's just flat out false. Because I spent my life and I damn near gave my life. Protecting people who I don't know. - You could have done it as so many other fields. - But I did it then. But I did it, this is the way I chose to serve. - To join the very same people that are reputed to rep-apart the communities. - From your perspective, the interactions that I've had, there's some-- - He's a criminal, he's on team. I am a criminal and I'm arguing with this. And he's saying, criticizing the cop for associating with a group of people that terrorizes communities. - You're seeing the irony here, I'm so sorry. - Crazy, yeah, I want to know. The thing is, we don't get to know what each of these people's crimes are. So I can't identify whether or not you've terrorized your community, but you did commit a crime. So I want to know what that was. Mr. Honorable and Selfless. - They're both well-rounded, level-headed people that I know. But we've had different experiences. - Those experiences. - Hold on, now you're interrupting me. - Those are cowards. - Now you're interrupting me. You just said you all want to be able to-- - They need like a lower third, like a chiron that says their name and then the offense that they committed. - We're off this. - Calling us cowards. So we're going to revert to name-calling. - Does this shoot fit? - I'm going to tell you, I'm going to 25 people to pull over one guy on the bike. - Again, this isn't about ego. It's not about ego. I'm not going to fight you, Sarah, man. - You guys are, I'm not going to fight fair. - You guys got tasers before you guys can click the trigger? - I never had a taser. - You guys have nice things before, you guys can shoot somebody, but you guys revert to killing people. - And there's a force continuum. There's laws in place for that. - It's just as many factors as you're bringing them to the conversation that back up your side 'cause you're a police officer. That's as many factors as every single person in this room has against the factors that you're saying. - Whoa, so it's almost like police departments are multifaceted and amongst police departments, you're going to have good cops and bad cops crazy. - Make it right for you guys to act the way you guys act. - So no. - All right, all right, all right. (indistinct chatter) (clapping) (beeping) - Hello again, Kevin. - Hello. - I don't think any of us should be judged so harshly. We all judge. I've gotten judged a lot because of stupid, stupid things. When I was 16, just because I was a 5150, I didn't really commit a crime, the only thing. - For those of you who don't know, 5150 is like being Baker acted. So you're experiencing psychological issues, distress, mental illness, police officers will show up. And if they deem that it's a dangerous situation for you or other people around you, they will actually take you. You'll stay in a psychological institution for about 72 hours. I've personal experience of this, not me being Baker acted, but people within my family being Baker acted. And it is not a fun situation, especially a lot of the psych words that they send you to for Baker action. Even if you're experiencing maybe like suicidal ideation, they are filled with some loney tones in there that you are now being detained with because they've determined that you are harmed to yourself or to others. And I think we could develop a better system about that, but I'm curious what she's gonna say about the police officers that responded to her call. - That I wanted to do was hurt myself. But in that moment, I got treated like a criminal. And that wasn't the first, that wasn't, that was the first time, not the last. - Well, listen to me, I too have been in that spot. I've had that gun in my mouth. It is not a fun place. It is an embarrassing place. But here's what I do know. When you get through that initial pain and an initial harshness of it, and you realize the strength that it took to not do it, now all of a sudden you start leading with that strength. And that becomes your power. - Sometimes people don't get that choice. I know they don't, and it's a sad state of affairs. I've been on calls where people have either killed themselves or attempted to kill themselves. - There are a lot of people that have been killed. I was 110 pounds, 16. Definitely not someone that had any power over those cops. Definitely not a reason for them to keep holding their guns, to kind of approach me very quietly, just search me as they did to cuff me behind my- - Not everybody has. - I'm gonna offer a little bit of a different perspective here, and I feel for everything that she's gone through, and of course it seems to be mixed in with mental illness. She wanted to hurt herself, so there's a struggle there. If you're a police officer who's responding to a mental health call, you do not know what this person was going to do, and oftentimes you don't get the full scope of what's happening before you arrive on site. She could very well have a gun on her that she was going to shoot herself in the face with. She could have a razor that she was going to cut herself with. There are several dangerous situations you're responding to, and especially somebody who is mentally unstable, you don't know what they're going to do. There are individuals that commit suicide by cop, there are individuals that will call the police department, they will try to kill police officers before taking their own lives. So this is what police have to think about in entering this situation. So even if you're 16 and you're 110 pounds, they are obligated to search you and to figure out what's going on. Now maybe they did so in a vicious manner, maybe they treated her like a criminal, and maybe they detained her too harshly. I cannot speak to that, but I'm just trying to give a little bit of the view of some of the situations you can be walking into that are extremely volatile. So if cops don't take those steps, no matter the call they're responding to, what happens on the day you make a mistake and somebody's trying to commit suicide by cop? What happens when you make the mistake and somebody's actually trying to murder you, or they're a violent schizophrenic and they don't understand what's happening around them? These are situations that they have to think about, and they detain you, they bake or act you, it's really rough, it's tough in the psych ward, it's horrible to be there for three days' straits, and that's difficult. But what happens to the police officer that responds to somebody in distress and says, "You know what, I just want to talk to you, "make sure you're okay." They leave the house and you kill yourself. These are the things that they have to deal with as well. It doesn't justify bad actions, but at least it puts it in perspective. - As in "Stainson." - I get that. - I swear to God. And listen, I'm not minimized. Not everybody has instincts in order to judge those feelings, and I'm sorry that happened to you. - There are so many kids. There was a, in 2020, there was a kid Christian Hall. He was a 5150, and after holding his hands up for 14 seconds, surrendering state troopers shot him seven times awful. They, nothing has happened about that. Do you know up until about 15 years ago, police officers lack training on what they call EDPs, emotionally disturbed persons? - I think they should get more training. I don't know how often you guys re-up that stuff, I don't know how often you guys go over it. - Minimally. - I, minimally. - Yeah. - And I agree, it's not enough. - It's unacceptable. - I didn't think I was a monster until the cops traded me like I was one. Handcuffing me to my bed, putting security bracelets on me, sitting next to someone who chewed off his bracelet, took my food and ate it. I was 16, I was put in rooms, but people that were so much older than me, there are other people that have gotten killed. I have somebody loved ones that suffer from bipolar schizophrenia. In that moment, I would not want to call the cops 'cause I don't want to risk their lives. I don't want them to get shot. If I have other options, I'm going to take those options. And I get it, you go in blind, you don't know what you're walking into. I wish they just had better judgment and they didn't judge so harshly because of things like that. Like just maybe read the room. There's a 16 year old and you feel the need to treat them like you're afraid of them, to shoot them to hold your gun up to them. - So there's a balance here to handling somebody with emotional, having an emotional episode, let's say. Unfortunately, certain people are not very good at this, but more money needs to be thrown into resources to train on this stuff because this is becoming a growingly identifiable issue. - And we have a mental health crisis in this country, so it's only going to get worse. So yeah, maybe an investment in proper training on that, but also in understanding that if you're calling the police for a 5150 to Baker Act somebody, that's not necessarily their job to put on their mental health cap and deal with these situations. They're being called because someone is either a danger to themselves or endangering other people and they need to get them out of the situation. Now that might be done harshly. And I think what's happening is that on the other end of being detained by police officers, when you're dropped off at the psych ward, it's an even worse experience. It's an even worse horrible institution with mental health professionals that are dealing with all sorts of psychological problems who are not necessarily dialed in to deal with suicidal ideation or more mild issues as far as mental health. And we could do more on the other end of that. Plus maybe a little bit more training for police officers or specific police officers that are well-versed in these situations as like a separate unit, but that is asking quite a bit. (indistinct chatter) - Yeah. (audience clapping) (bell dings) - Hi. - How are you? - Good. - Okay, so this last conversation brought up a lot for me. I was also really very much just doing 50 as a kid. I was having family problems. My parents did one apparent me. They would call the cops and say I was trying to kill myself. I'd be my room sobbing. I never got any real help. No one listened to me. And when I was 19, I was kidnapped, raped, brutalized for 12 hours straight. And then I was found by police. And my first reaction was I just wanna go home. I don't wanna deal with this. I felt like I was being interrogated. I was taken straight to like an interrogation room. I still had like his pee on me. But no, I had to sit there and they go, oh, is it his left-hand or his right hand? And I was like, I don't know. Like there's no like trained professional that could have offered me empathy. And the police were not offering me empathy. They wanted the facts, which I'd get. But it was so traumatizing that after that, after I was admitted to the hospital, I came home, tried to kill myself until my mom, I wish I didn't survive that because I didn't ask for this. I have to go through all of this. After I tried to kill myself, was I given help? No, I had to go weekly back to get pictures of my injuries to tell them more details. And every single time, like it was like an out-of-body experience and I... It's changing. It's changing. And also, I think we need to understand what the job of police is. If you are wanting to prosecute the person who did this to you, it is paramount that they get your eyewitness account of what happened. It's paramount. They get the clothes that you are wearing when this took place. It's paramount that they visit you to take pictures of your injuries, that they go take you to the hospital to get a rape kit. Mental health professionals lie on the other end of that. They could talk about maybe like entrenching them within the system of police questioning, but these are things that police officers have to do if you want the person who committed the crime against you to be put away. Now, I can understand how that might be a traumatizing experience to have to go through the crime that happened to you, but it is absolutely necessary if you want something to be done and you have to be extremely detailed. In the same way that you'll have to be extremely detailed when you testify in court against the perpetrator of this crime. And while that may be re-traumatizing in a way, it is just the simple fact of the matter that it has to be done. Now, maybe people could ask you the questions a little nicer or try to help you recount your situation and be there to support you in some way, and maybe police aren't well equipped to do that, but it doesn't mean that that's not the experience that you should have gone through on the other end of that violent violation, it sounds. I'm telling you no, that's changing. Okay, so what police departments are starting to do now is they're bringing in training. 'Cause that police officer, I do know police officers who have asked questions like, what were you wearing? Okay, and that, while that is a non-issue question for that police officer, he just wants to know what you're wearing, you're gonna maybe view that as, as he's trying to say, I was asking for it, right? So the new form of training when it comes to sexual assault, okay, just sexual assault is being done from a victim's perspective, or a survivor's perspective. I don't like the word victim. All right, police officers need to be trained in order to see it from your perspective. That way they can approach you with a little bit more sensitivity. And what's gonna happen? If you feel a little bit more comfortable and a little bit more understood by the police, you're gonna give more information, and you're gonna give them a better investigation, and they're gonna make an arrest. - I mean, I feel like a simple fix to this would just be laying the groundwork before you get into the interview questions about what happened and say like, this is just a necessary step that we have to do. We are here for you along the way as you're going through these things. If you need to take a break, if you need a cup of coffee, if you need a snack, we can pause and get right back into it. But yeah, there is this whole like, what were you wearing thing that is being turned into this narrative that police are, are trying to blame them for the crime? And maybe in some cases, there are police officers that are doing that. Sorry, my dog is barking in the background. I'm sure you guys can hear that. But if you say I walked out of X-Bar at 9.30 p.m. and I was wearing a mini skirt and a pink top, I'm gonna go look at the security footage from that bar. I'm gonna look for somebody with the mini skirt on and the pink top and it's gonna help me identify the victim of the crime. It's not necessarily always this victim blame mentality that they're asking these questions to you. Now, in some cases, I'm sure it's true. There are cops that sort of scoff off these things that happen and for a multitude of reasons. But there are other interpretations. - That's a wonderful thing, okay? What happened to you was an awful, awful, awful thing. Unfortunately, these new things, these new techniques didn't start coming around until very recently. - Well, I'm glad they're coming around. Thank you. Okay. (audience applauds) (bell dings) - I feel kind of strong on this opinion because mainly, it's not that I feel like people aren't judging them too much because I feel like they do get judged pretty harsh. But sad to say, my tax dollars is coming out of my paycheck to pay police officers. So when a police officer does something wrong, let's say misconduct or something, they arrest somebody they shouldn't have, they get sued. That doesn't come from anybody but the tax dollars. So when I judge somebody because money's getting taken out of my check, I feel like it's fair, sir. But if it was somehow like provided by like private funding, I feel like they shouldn't be judged as harsh. But my money is going towards the police department. That's why I judge so harsh. - That's a fair statement. And I can only tell you from my own perspective, I tried to hold myself to that high standard, knowing that I was a representative of the community. Okay, and I took a lot of pride in that. So let me give you a little statistic here. Maybe this will put some perspective on why police officers get a little jaded at the end of their career. So the average personalcy between two and six critical incidents, pretty much the worst day of your life throughout their life. Throughout a 20 year career, police officers will say upwards of 800. Your worst day times 400. That's kind of what police officers do. So that weighs on your head and it weighs on your head. It's not an excuse. What it is, is it's a cry for help to fix us internally. So we can avoid these lawsuits. So we can avoid your taxpayers paying for that stuff. We don't want to be a burden on the community. Majority of us don't, some of them just don't care. But we don't want to be a burden on the community financially like that. I'd rather you say, I'm glad I pay his salary 'cause he's wanted a good ones. I totally agree because I play devil's advocate. I feel like generalization is just ignorance honestly. So I don't generalize anything. There's good cops, there's bad cops, there's bad cops, but the bad ones cost a lot. So I like this guy, he's very reasonable. That's the only thing I have a problem with, but you are 100% on that one. Thank you. Kevin will now choose the person to debate for up to 10 minutes on a claim of they were choosy. Mario, something's calling me. I wish you would have choose, what's his name, Malik? To bring you back up here. 'Cause I think there's a lot on the table between you and I. Damn, I don't like a damn showdown. I honestly think that you guys have caused more damage in my life than anything else I ever, ever dealt with. At the end of the day, honestly, I can't complain. You guys need me stronger. You guys need me who I am today, but I would have liked to have gone in a different way. You know, opposed to just getting that tough love, you know? Getting sent to jail for nine months for something I didn't do. For marijuana at that, I just feel like it's time to change, to change all this. You know what the beautiful thing is, brother? You and I still got some air in our lungs, right? We're not dead yet. You and I just have a chance to sit down at the table and work together. And that is where things start to get fixed. You see a problem, I see a problem. So let's fix it. As long as I have air in my breath, I'm never gonna give up, I will never give up on you. I don't care what you did, I don't care. Everybody has a chance to change their life. And I said this before, a true miracle is a changed life. - And we should also look at progress that's been made throughout human civilization. I wanna look at the numbers before there was police officers, people what, dying in duels and shit, and friggin' vigilantism. Like, we have to admit that there's been progress. And I like that he's also talking about, like, yes, this is a problem that police department is dealing with. And here's the structures that we're currently trying to put in place. And I'm sure there are going to be way more problems that we have to parse out during our time here on this earth. But luckily, people are actively dedicated to making progress. I don't think anybody's like, "Yeah, we want more innocent people to die." So we're gonna systematically make sure that police officers are killing innocent people as much as possible. There are so many people wanting to make sure that these bad situations, like the Sonia Massey's of the world and these others that these people have given as their evidence of what they've experienced, there are so many people working to make sure that these things don't happen in the future. And of course, that's not always the case. Like, we're not gonna live in utopia. There are gonna be bad people. There's gonna be bad problems. But at least we're working towards it. - Okay, and I like to show my kids what a true miracle is. - No, I think the damage has been done. And there needs to be a lot of reparation, like towards the people. Like, you know what I mean? There's a lot of pain that is still in the community that the cops have imposed on us. And we're still having healed. And I think we definitely need to talk about that. And once that healing starts, you did it. You did it in your statement earlier. You went from-- - But if he's designing reparations from all the criminals that have put my life in danger throughout my career, and I still haven't healed from that. Okay, you can talk about that. I mean, the yag of it is, you know, once somebody's done something bad to you, they've done it, you know? And it does unfortunately become your responsibility to heal and move on from that damage and hopefully do so with reason and logic and an understanding of the world and a better understanding. I think people who go through traumatic events or they come across bad people or they are victimized, get a larger view of the world and it's not to justify the action. It's not to say, yeah, go out there and get victimized because you're gonna be a stronger person. It's just to say that it's the reality of things. And we are in so many ways responsible for our own healing. And once you do heal and you can put in a little bit of work, use your testimony to make police departments better. Talk about the situations that you're experiencing. Talk to young people, especially if they've committed crimes. Talk to young people about not putting themselves in situations where they're encountering police. Victim to victor. I'm sure there's a million other ways that would have been more beneficial to your life, but cops made you stronger. What you did is you started taking some of that power back. You stopped hating the cops so much for what they did and now all of a sudden they don't live in your head rent free. The worst thing you can do is let anybody fit, sit inside your head rent free. And unfortunately, some people who have been treated poorly by the police allow that to happen rather than sit there and find the good ones and make the active change. And that's why something was calling on me to bring you over here because I like what you're doing with the next generation. Because listen, I'm on the back nine, you know? I'm going downhill. I don't have a whole lot of time left. But what I can do in that time is what you can do in your time left is amazing if we start bringing that younger generation up. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I learned from my mistakes and I'm just trying to lead by example. And that's it, you know, that's what I can do. You know, I think, I think my second agree that we were wrong at some point. And my second agree that we were wrong at some point. You know, well, that's a start. That's a start. And guess what? We just take the first step and then before you know it, you and I will be rounding mile 16 in the marathon together, but you got to take off the rings. No, they don't come off. But yeah, all right. Sounds good. Sure, man. All right, brother. He didn't even use his 10 minutes, just mowed out. OK, that was the end of that. I think the majority of the comments came from watching too many videos. They're being spoon-fed information without having to develop a lot of their own personal opinions from firsthand experience. However, those people who did have that firsthand experience, their opinions, they really impacted me more so. I'm not upset at the cop that they brought. He's clearly a reasonable guy. And that's why any is good at arguing. I could tell if he was a little more compassionate, a little more open-minded. That's not common for cops, at least whatever I've experienced. If he had been the person during my crisis, any one of those times, I would have felt a lot safer. I appreciate everybody bringing up the deficiencies within the police, because believe it or not, police officers see the deficiency in the police department, and there's steps being taken actively to erase those things. Everything that he said about how the real good cops hate bad cops, that was something that it hadn't caught my attention before. But I guess it's a little by little you learn to understand. But still, you've got to agree to disagree. They hate us as much as we hate them. That was cool. He came off a little strong. He's certain, like, little topics, whatever. But, you know, he probably feel how we feel, but just in a different way, because he's a cop. Because Kevin is a cop, I can't see him more than that. We can be friends. We can't go any much further than that in that aspect. And it's sad to say, but that's just how I feel. But I think today we had a breakthrough. I think we got a step in the right direction and I think we definitely learned something from each other today. That is so ignorant. And so ignorant. Imagine, like, oh, no, I can't be friends with him. I can't ever talk to him. I don't want to associate myself with him because he's a cop. We did have a breakthrough today, but I want to actually cut myself off from any other breakthroughs or any other, you know, learning of other people's perceptions. Because I want to stay locked in my perception, even though I just had a really good experience with a cop, even though, you know, I hate cops. You know how ridiculous that sounds. Oh, my gosh. It's like, what more do you want? But I guess that's all you can do if you're the cop, is just to, you know, engage as compassionately and as good in good faith as you can and listen. I feel like you did a good job kind of treating people with dignity and being willing to listen and hear them out. And then still kind of didn't budge when it came down to brass tacks and he brought facts and truth as much as he could. And I think his assessment rings true for me. It feels like, unfortunately, a lot of what's coming into this conversation are very real experiences with anecdotes. And then it's like a lot of anti-police sort of sentiment that is easy to be confirmed if you just watch the news and listen to the media. And that's what's going to be your perspective. And, you know, unfortunately, that puts you out of touch with the general reality. And that doesn't necessarily invalidate your experiences or doesn't, you know, excuse the missteps of police that you do hear about on TV. But generally speaking, we want to be people that live in reality and we want to be people that are capable of relating to other human beings and connecting with them on that human level if they've given us no other reason to be hostile. So it's unfortunate how our teardrop friend ended that conversation. But I do think that hopefully the way that this cop comported himself during this interview at least created some cognitive dissonance in the minds of people who were listening, who had more of an anti-police bias. So I guess that's my kind of final takeaways. Do you have anything else there? - Yeah, I mean, like, I wish they had some more experienced debaters on the criminal end of things. Malik did very well. If that was his name, I think he was very logical and reasonable in his take on it. But yeah, I think there could have been some better arguments on their side that maybe would have forced the cop to actually engage a little bit more. I think, think pretty hard about different situations that befall them. But yeah, those are my final thoughts, guys. We're gonna get into your super chats. - I will say, shout out because even the criminals were more civil and polite than what we saw from someone, one versus 20 of the Republicans and a Democrat. - Crazy, yeah, this was the most like respectful one. A couple heated moments, couple intense conversations, but way nicer. (laughs) They actually excused themselves and said, "Okay, I'm done talking." Which you didn't get that on any of the others. - Yeah, all right, let's hear from you guys. This was, Rachel S was our first super chatter today. She says, "I'm a Christian UW English student. "I want to speak with my experiences "like you, Brett Cooper and others I look up to, "but I have little social media and don't know where to start." - Hm, you could start a club at your school. If you want to like start talking like locally, to just person in person about these things. Or you can always, if social media is the goal, just start somewhere. You just gotta start somewhere. And it's a rocky road at first. The views are trickling in, and then you're establishing yourself, you're establishing your voice and how you talk to people, which should really just be an extension of yourself, hopefully, and then things will come, hopefully. That's what I recommend. - Do some TikTok dances. That's where Amala started. - TikTok dances, hell yeah. - Hell yeah. - And then she made some really well put together articulate fact, you know, debunking opulent narrative videos and started sharing her story and stuff. But yeah, as like a social media professional, I'd say short forms, an easier, more accessible place to start. You can edit it within the TikTok or Instagram app and start to make things, start to get a feel for what audiences are actually responding to. And that's an easier place to start than trying to tackle a YouTube channel, which requires more. Editing and better cameras and all that type of stuff. - Yeah, just don't be afraid to click publish. That's it. - True, Nat. Okay, ST says unrelated. I'm in central Florida and there are many people who think this storm is a man-made weapon. Have you seen this? Sending love to your FL/Orlando fan. - I have seen this. I don't know if I'm convinced by those individuals, but I haven't looked too deeply into it. But I have seen the Marjorie Taylor Greene, they're controlling the weather type thing. And I'm wondering what she thinks the goal is there, because when you hit predominantly red states with a hurricane, and then you have a government that's ill-equipped to deal with what lands on the other end of that hurricane, it seems like it would drive more voters to Republican ideas and to Donald Trump. So I just don't know what the goal, are they trying to wipe out everybody in red areas? Maybe, I don't know. I don't know. I still have to let me know what the actual theory is behind those things, because logically it's not working for me at this moment. - And then on the other side, of course, we have the people who say if you're using a gas stove or not drinking out of a plastic straw, then you're responsible for changing weather patterns and greater severity of things. While they fly around on private jets to talk about it and introduce more restrictions on you. So I don't know, I'm not taking very many of these people seriously on this equation. I think the weather's just kind of happening. - Yup. - A.J. Buck says, "Hi, Amala, just a Star Wars fan "who stumbled across your acolyte content "and fell in love with the rest. "I've been meaning to ask, is your dog Wimby "named after the basketball star, Victor Wimbaneyama?" - Yes, he is named after Victor Wimbaneyama. He, when we first got him as a little baby puppy, we had this little squishy, stress ball, basketball, and that dog took to that basketball, was bouncing it around, holding this huge basketball in his mouth, so we named him Wimby after Wimmeaneyama. - That's all, I didn't know that. - Yeah. - And look at you making a sports reference for your puppy. That's-- - Bloody mixed portington. - Bloody mixed portington right there. And cool to hear that you found Amala through the acolyte content, I've heard that one before. - That's dope, that's awesome. - Star Wars expert here as well. Sporting mixed portington and Star Wars mixed star, Star Wars in Tund. - Absolutely. - Pull over it. Simon Dixon says, "Hi Amala, I'm a viewer from England, and I just wanna say America needs to close its border because what's happening here will happen and is coming to America. Close the border now, Amala, yes, you're cute." - We're, thank you. We are on the same page on that one. I wish they would close that damn border. And yeah, we're already watching Western Europe deal with the things that happen when you just allow rampant immigration anywhere anybody wants to go. Little stabby stab, little car bomb, little fire set over here. So yeah, it does seem like it is coming to a state near you if you're in the United States watching right now. I believe they've actually been tracking terrorists that have made their way through the southern border. So we have that to look forward to. - Great work, everyone. - Mm-hmm. - AVJR says, "Hi, how was your weekend?" I went to Alabama for the final furnace best, and I had fun. I'm coming back to LA tonight. Hope you're safe, peace. My weekend was good, it was chill. I went out Saturday night with my friend and my boyfriend. We had a good old time, and then Sunday I just chilled. My whole family is getting prepped for this hurricane that's about to hit Florida. And the winds seem like they're gonna be very strong. So just been dealing with that, coordinating with them, seeing what they're doing. 'Cause they're probably gonna lose power and trees down and all these different things. It's the same cycle. Yeah. - Oh yeah, not looking good down there. - Nice, got to watch my Vikings go to five and O on Sunday morning in the NFL. So that's, we perpetually are stuck in mediocracies. So mediocrity, so it's cool to see that. And then here in Nashville, Vanderbilt, one of the worst football teams in the SEC year after year, beats the legendary Alabama, which was probably one of the biggest upsets in college football history. And they tore down the goal post and brought it down Broadway and then threw it in the river afterwards. So that was fun to watch fans. It's like if your team wins like an epic game, it's common in college football for the fans, students to like rush the field and then they'll tear down the goal post in celebration, just kind of where you're like, you know, violating your own school. But they did that, but they brought it to them Broadway, which it was like all over Twitter, it was really funny. - I'm sorry guys, this is a hot take. I don't think it's a hot take actually, but it like excessive football fans, aggravated football fans, they give me the egg so hard. Like you're telling me you have that much allegiance to a man who's running with the ball? I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Can't deal with it. - I'm on sporty. - Tear down the goal post. (laughs) - Nicodemus 1984 says good evening, just a simple support. Thank you Nicodemus, always good to hear from you in France, I believe. Lindsey P says MTG may be kooky, but weather manipulation is very real. Cloud seating is a well-known example, and there are others responding to previous live comment. - I will have to look into that. I have heard about the cloud seating, but I'm wondering like, can they just conjure up a cat-five hurricane off the coast? I don't know, I'll look into it. - I watched a Twister's movie where they were like, you know, shooting stuff up into tornadoes to make them die faster. So maybe they're controlling the weather that way. - Yeah. (laughs) - Maybe they call, what's that? Actors in the Glen Powell down there and wrangled that hurricane. - Yeah. - Sorry, not make them like them, that's a choice, it's horrible. Anyway, it's Josie Z. Says, my boyfriend graduated boot camp last week. It's nice to know there are people like him serving despite some negative stereotypes about the military. - Yeah, I think everything just requires nuance. There's gonna be good people and bad people and all these different things happening within the mix. So if we can talk about both, that's the good thing. - Yeah, we talked about law enforcement stereotypes today, criminal stereotypes and military stereotypes, is a thing too, for sure. - Yeah. - Ken Topkin says, "As a doctor, I live in regular fear "of illegal consequences, AKA getting sued. "We are expected to be perfect "despite a very broken system, different than cops, "but we have our intense legal consequences." - Yeah, and I mean like, there's that, and you guys are judged, I wouldn't say like on a national level, like a lot of cops are. I feel like you'd have to do something pretty horrendous to be like a doctor that's nationally viewed in this light. Like, I'm trying to think of the last story that I saw about this. I think a woman snuck a microphone into her hair while she was getting surgery to make sure she could hear everything on the other end of her surgery. And she heard like the nurses and the doctors like talking shit about her as they're performing a surgery on her, which is just like so ridiculous and crude and awful. But yeah, I think like the pressure that cops feel is just a little different. Of course internally is a doctor, you're gonna feel these things all the time, you make a mistake, there's gonna be, you know, there's gonna be hell to pay in some way, shape or form, but a lot of play times medical professionals are not held accountable for the things that they do because people aren't well versed in jargon and like what's actually going on in their situation. And they defer their care in a lot of ways to the medical professionals, which in some ways you should, but in other ways you need to educate and represent yourself. So yeah, I don't know, I'm trying to think of professions that I feel like are judged as intensely as cops and something will come to mind, I'll think of something. - I think that is a good parallel Ken, thank you. Shelby Brown says, "I know I will take heed for this, but I think women should be limited in their role. I'm thinking more in violent situations. Men are stronger than women, and women are limited in how they can respond." - Yeah, I agree with that. If you're getting a call when they're like, "We got a six foot four, 280 pound suspect who's armed or whatever," I'm not gonna be like, "Send our female partners to go deal with that." - Sometimes 10 pound woman. - Yeah, sometimes that's the situation you find yourself in and that's what you have to respond to. And then all my respect to female officers who put themselves in that situation, and I'm sure handle them very well in many cases, but you just wanna put your best foot forward. - Frau Kenzerland says, "Reprofiling, our police department actually bragged that their new simulator did not exclusively lose, use black people as targets unlike their last one." - My simulator that I got, I think there was one black guy that had committed a robbery and was running away, and I believe that was the person I shot in the nuts. I think that was the person I shot in the nuts. And then another situation was a white guy with a knife. And now that I'm remembering it, I think I didn't shoot the white guy and I ended up getting stabbed. And I did shoot the black guy because he swung an object at me as he was running away from the robbery. And I was like, instinctively, boom, you're gonna kill me, you threw something at me. And it ended up being not a weapon. So I would be locked up. - Yeah, it should be locked up. - Locked up, white supremacist cop. - Okay. - Or you'd be on paid leave, and then you'd be exonerated. - Yeah, right, yeah. - Julie Julieta says, "Hi, A&T, "your content made me super interested in political issues. "Thank you for always being transparent "and speaking common sense. "Love from Norway." - Love back to you, we appreciate that. I'm glad that we've delved into things that have maybe sparked your interest and it's led you down the political rabbit hole, hopefully not too far. - Not a reasonable amount. - Yeah, I always love hearing from the Scandinavians. Gabe Morgan says, "I'm at work right now. "I'll have to catch this later, "but I gotta support the homey lots of love." - Appreciate it, lots of love. Back to you, where's my chime? Thank you. - Sarah Marie Olson says, "Super chat to remind y'all "to hit that like button." - Hit that like button, like subscribe. - Lillian Oster says, "These people realize "that black and brown cops exist, right?" - Yes, you'd hope. I don't think they do, maybe they don't, or maybe they think they've internalized their white supremacy and their racism and that's why they're on the police force. They're self-hating black and brown men and women who serve on the police force. But yeah, people are gonna have less of an excuse. The more diversified our population becomes, like scientifically, we're all gonna be about my color and not too long from now in the scope of human civilization and existence. So who are you gonna blame after that? - Dana Johnson says, "Have you seen Candace Owen's "deep dive into Kamala's ethnicity?" Super interesting love what you guys are doing. Former Democrat too, glad to be here. - I have seen some of the videos of her talking about it. It's interesting. I'm gonna wait for more confirmation of the things that she's talking about 'cause some very vivid accusations are being laid out that I feel like need a little bit more substantiation, but I'm glad she's on the path. I just don't know that I would be putting videos out while I'm on the path of discovering things. I would like talk to people, put all my information together and get the best view of what I have going on and then let people know, personally. - Personally, Sarah says, "I live in South Jersey "and I've been pulled over a few times "driving through Camden just 'cause I'm a young white woman "and they think I'm buying drugs." Shrug emoji. - There you go. You know, they have a little suspicion. (laughing) - So you've been profiled. - Do you look like you would be buying drugs? I'm curious. Yes or no? Put it in the comments below. (laughing) - Hi, Q says, "Well, Disney once said movies "and television will influence our young." Andrew Breitbart said, "Politics is downstream from culture. "You liberals have demonized the police and you know it." - They have demonized the police. And I think they know it. They seem pretty like, yep, I have and that's what I believe. I think it should be that way. And I think it's sort of a mix with culture and politics. I think they exist in this synergistic relationship for one of them. - Chicken and egg, yeah. - Yeah, exactly. - Chiduma says, "I'm law enforcement officer. "My brother is a felon. "He proved to me that reform is possible. "He used to hate law enforcement, but was never hurt "because he complied and he understands the LE side now. "We're not infallible and there are some bad cops out there. "But when someone asks for help, I can't walk away. "It's my duty to stay." - Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree with everything you said and there's reform that's possible with criminals and people who commit these bad actions and there's reform possible within the police department and the issues that they experience over time. So yeah, I love to hear that and I love to hear that you're in it to help people and be there for them. - Oh, says, "Hi, y'all from Maryland. "And watch your lives at work usually, "but I caught y'all for once. "Please do a video with HRH Collection again, please." - I should invite Alex back. I have to think of a video idea before I reach out, but I'm open to having her back on the show. She's a fun energy. - Firecracker, he's been a minute. - 100%. - We need to see what she's been up to. Jasmine just sends a black cat emoji. Thank you, Jasmine. - Appreciate it, Jasmine. - Poet says, "Jubilee video idea, "10 versus 10 run to the chair red flag type theme. "You raise your flag to switch out your team's speaker." - 10 versus 10. Okay, so we're like a more even playing field with the people who speak. That'd be complicated, but I'm sure they could pull that off. I think just being surrounded is a little bit more like, oh, how is this one person gonna fare against 20 people? Type B. - Yeah, that's an interesting dynamic, and that would be closer to like a middle ground, I guess it would just kind of have the gamified format, but interesting. L.T. Blacksmith says, "personally, I don't think "they could have picked a better cop for this video, "but to each their own, as this policeman has shown, "I still got it." - I think they could have. I like that he is kind of just like, this guy is probably the average cop, and I like that he was able to respond to their more emotional arguments in a way, but there are so many, I think, arguments that could have been shut down with stats or like being well-versed in the law or being well-versed in what police officers are currently doing. I think him being a former police officer is also puts him on the back foot. I keep saying that for this debate because they are talking about experiences that they have with current police officers, and he's saying, "Well, that's not what I experienced," or, "That's not what I dealt with while I was on the force." But no, he did a great job. Don't let me count him down for that. - You just have such high standards for these, understandably. - I have higher standards for the criminals too, they could have picked some better criminals. (laughs) - That's kind of a funny thing to say. I have higher standards for criminals, don't we all? - No, Artian says, "Hot take," but I feel like a lot of people who are on the panel were angry that they got caught, it just makes sense. Also, you lost the game. - Yeah, you have the dynamic of like, "I'm a police officer, so I love police officers," and I was a good one at that, so you're gonna come in with that sort of energy, and then of course, you're a criminal, meaning that you got caught doing anything that you're doing, so obviously you're gonna have a poor taste in your mouth. Plus, if you were actually committing a crime with your encounters in police officers, they probably weren't the nicest to you 'cause they have to deal with your shit after you've committed a crime, so it's like, "Okay, it's kind of hard to find some balance here." - Should have had prison Mike. - Yeah, I never got caught me, though. (both laughing) - The defenseers. - And then Chiduma again says, "Unfortunately, a lot of usually newer cops "have hesitated and put themselves in danger "for fear of backlash. "Also, I'm female law enforcement officer, "bought men on my own and never lost yet "in 10 years. "Training is more important than brute strength, "and plenty of men don't want as my backup, to be honest." - No, hell yeah. You have plenty of men who have a poor temperament or they're cowards or they're trigger happy or all these different things. There's plenty of men that you would not want to round you in a situation like this, and a woman who handles herself properly is a dangerous woman, especially if you're gonna be a police officer. In all my experience with police officers, the women are bad ass. They are not playing with nobody, and nobody's playing with them, but when he talks about jujitsu and getting experience in that, I think there's no better position to be in as a female police officer than one who is well-versed in jujitsu, because that actually trains you to take care of people who are much larger than you and to sort of assess their vulnerabilities before entering an altercation with them. So, I would love to see police officers lean into that a little bit more. - Same, same, and I think that concludes our super chats for the day. - Okay, we ended with a little message from law enforcement. We appreciate you. Thank you for your service to your community. Guys, thank you so much for watching today's show. Leave your thoughts in the comments down below. I saw the chats were coming in. Y'all were going at each other, okay? So, drop those comments down below after the stream so people can see them, like them, dispute them, all these different things. If you like this video, like, subscribe, click the notification button to be notified every single time we're live. That's Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 1PM Pacific, 3PM Central, 4PM Eastern, 8PM Universal Time, plus we post videos for you guys every single day. Tomorrow is a little bit of a deep dive into FEMA since my family's about to get hit with the hurricane that they do not have the funds to deal with. We had to do a little bit of an investigation as to why that's happening. So, I'd love to hear your thoughts on tomorrow's video as well. Guys, thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much for your input and your support, and I will see you tomorrow. [ Pause ]
Jubilee had 20 criminals debate one cop on police brutality, racism, bad apples, and much more. Let’s watch and react!