I think there's a lot of, just average middle-class people, they're not in any sort of business. They just happen to live overseas. And they're being punished as if they were some corporation, some huge corporation with the intent to cheat the US government. And there's no protection. There's no protection against that. This is The Coming Home Podcast with John Allen. And welcome everybody to this episode of Coming Home with John Allen. I am your humble, but slightly nervous, nervous host as happens when tech season comes around for expats. And apropos of that, I'm speaking with John Richardson, Anthony, parent, and Keith Redmond, these are the techs guys. They've been on my show what three or four times before, and we've talked about taxes, specifically taxes for expats. As I say, you guys know who these people are. Look in the description of this episode, whether you're watching on YouTube or listening on a podcast platform, and you can get into their individual biographies and some information about where you can find the work that they do. Welcome, gentlemen. Good to see you. This is not only a service to me in that I learned something new every time I talk to you guys. But I believe this is a great service. This is based on the feedback that I get from my viewers and listeners. This is a great service for them as well. This whole thing with taxes and what is fair, what is unfair, what's legal, what is illegal. There's a lot of debate on the issue, but unfortunately, that debate does not reach forward or all the way up, so to speak, to the proper people in Congress, in the Presidential Administration. Keith, you quite often are advising people through your online group what to do, what not to do. You answer their questions and concerns. It seems that the common thread in these comments that people make or the questions that people post to you, Keith, online, are actually easily answered if they would just take a deep breath and think and do what is best for them. What say you, Keith Redmond? I would say so. Let me just preface what I'm about to say. I know and no disrespect. I know you use the term expats where I concentrate and I think Anthony and John would concur on this, is we're really talking about Americans who live overseas and who live overseas permanently or long term, so American immigrants with an E, if you will, and where their financial center of gravity is outside the United States and their country of residence, whether they have something in the US or not, but their financial center of gravity is where they live. Isn't that an expat? Well, I mean, expat could be a short term expat, who's maybe on assignment for a couple of years. Okay, so there's your distinction and that long term, rather permanent or someone who just maybe for a year and a job, very good distinction, right, because their financial center of gravity is going to be in the United States because they're only going to be overseas temporarily. So there is a delineation there, if you will, and for the American immigrants or long term American overseas, they're the ones that really have an issue with the citizenship based taxation that the US practices. Now to answer your initial question, I do get a lot of questions, whether that be in the group or individually. And you know, my first thing is I tell people to just step back and breathe and let's take a look at all of your options based on your profile and circumstances. Yeah, and go through those options and do a risk assessment for those options, yes, and go from there. Because let me just jump in real quick, because a lot of people, when it comes to options, people think their only option is to do what the IRS tells them to do. That is correct. And how do I put this? That's not necessarily the best course of action. But I can't say that for, you know, generally speaking, it just depends on the individual. And it depends on their circumstances. And what's good for you may not be good for somebody else. And so there's a lot of great area. Nothing that's good for me is good for anybody. Yeah, I mean, there's just no cookie cutter approach to it. And it's just on a case by case basis. And I've been, you know, I'm not a CPA, I'm not a tax attorney, I'm kind of the in between that people go to just to kind of get some guidance as far as what their options may be and formulate a strategy moving forward. And the experts as far as the meat and potatoes on what to do. Well, you're an expert in the sense, you know, like you said, you're not a CPA. You're not an attorney. But what you are is a very engaged guy with a lot of information and what you are as an excellent advocate for the man and woman on the street wondering about these things. And stepping stone, I think you are under evaluating yourself. What you do, I believe is just as important and in some ways, and no offense, John and Anthony, some ways, what Keith is doing is more important because you are the first step in people getting a good grasp on what their rights are, on what their best intentions may be or how you can help them interpret what their best intentions are. Right. And mitigate the fear. Admit it. Yes. The fear and the angst. Now, John, let me ask you about this. Many of the people that I talk with, just in my day to day life, but also on my program and many of the people that Keith talk with are what we call accidental Americans or they are an American who is very deep into the thought process when it comes to dropping their American citizenship. How does that person approach taxation? You know, they're two completely different questions. They are. I mean, anybody who is, I mean, US citizens are the only carbon life forms in the world that's up by definition, dual tax-rescents. So in other words, life is fine if they live in the United States, but if they leave the United States, I mean, you may have seen a product called an invisible dog friend where you get a shot, right? That's what they are. Now, the, you know, this phrase, accidental Americans, I don't even know what it really is, but Dan, to your question, John, the accidentals have an awful lot of benefits and options available to them that people who are not accidental stone, I mean, the people who are really being destroyed by this are people who are not accidental Americans. They moved away from the United States, you know, and they're in their 20s or something. These are the phrase financial center of gravity. What that means is that all the retirement financial planning has been done in accordance with the tax laws of another country. Many of those people are in the US tax system, okay? Many of them are not in the US tax system. Basically absent any reasonable prospect of change, I think people have to get out. I think they've got to renounce their citizenship, you know, if they want to survive this thing. Some will renounce as tax compliant Americans, some will not. The IRS, incredibly going back to the point of accidental Americans. And I think that this is, is, is generous and reasonable because they can't change the laws but has created a program called the Relief Procedures for Former Citizens that will allow accidental Americans to renounce US citizenship in most cases, you know, and wrap the whole thing up. The other point that I would make is that there's a huge distinction here between people who were born with dual citizenship and those who are not. Not only does the US have citizenship taxation, but, you know, to make it even more offensive, they have citizenship and non-taxation, all right? Explain that, please. Sure. You know, let's say that you're, I'm going to use the example that Keith always uses, although I think this is unreasonably narrow, okay? But, you know, let's take somebody who was born in the United States if their parents were, you know, students or something like that. They were born to citizens of France or the UK or Canada or whatever, okay? And they therefore were born with dual citizenship, okay? Now that's hugely significant when it comes to a whole renunciation issue because, you know, the US taxes, everything, including renunciation, it has very significant acts of taxes that apply to a lot of people. But incredibly simply by virtue of having being born in the United States to parents who were not US citizens, I mean, this is how really offensive this is, right? And you talk about discrimination simply by, you know, managing the five-year tax compliance thing, they can renounce, avoid the acts of tax, even if they had a billion dollars of net worth, okay? So not only are we talking about, you know, taxation, stuff, but we're talking about, you know, what I really see as a compounded form of discrimination, I mean, why should, I mean, I'm glad anybody who has them out, I'm glad for them. I encourage them to take it. But I mean, this is tremendously unfair, right? Because you have a situation where some people are exempted from the ex-attacks because of the citizenship of their parents. Yeah. Yeah. That's the citizenship of their parents. That's how insane and offensive this is, and some who are not, right? So I mean, you know, to take it to an extreme, you know, you take somebody as born a dual citizen lives in the United States their whole life, okay? You know, it has a billion dollars they've built up, all right, decides that they don't want to be an American anymore, you know, so they'll move for 10 years to France or the UK. And for your second citizenship, they renounce at that time, they escape the whole ex-attacks. Contrast that with somebody who was not born a dual citizen, is carted out of the United States at five years old, but not born a dual citizen, okay? Makes a billion dollars outside the United States, outside the United States. That person is subject to the ex-attacks. I mean, this shows you the insanity, the injustice and the unfairness of this. And that's why my life people is get out while you can. That's a rather direct message. I want to say a direct message. Yes. Yeah. No, it's quite necessary to be direct in all things that have to do with this issue. I think this conversation is very timely, October is coming up. I know just from the Americans in Norway, whom I know and associate with, there's a handful of us here who, and I'm not putting myself in the same category, but there's a handful of Americans in Norway who have filed for extensions and those extensions go out in October. And there's no other reason for them filing for that extension other than that they are scared, uninformed, misinformed, disinformed. And they're just totally clueless about what to do in their situation. Now, Anthony, parent, you are the face and the voice of the IRS medic. I love your podcast for these people who are basically living in fear of the IRS, living in fear of the US tax system. I think that your podcast, the IRS medic is good medicine in that it is quite informative. Talk to me, please, about what are you seeing out there? What work are you doing in relation to that? And what effect are you having, please? So I think one of the, and Nikitha sort of touching on this. Turn your mic up a little piece. Yeah, you bet. You bet. So Keith was touching on this a little bit and mentioned before, this is the problem. The US expats are also facing is a tax industry, a tax industry that invents laws and regulations. And people will speak very as a matter of a faculty about what something is. And you know, and oftentimes I'll catch these comments on Facebook or something and, you know, if I'm feeling a little feisty, you know, like, and especially here's, you know, a big one is passive foreign investment companies, you know, what essentially the US tax industry has decided on their own is that any foreign mutual fund or an ETF is a passive foreign investment company. And this is a topic that John has just been incredibly helpful on going through the history of why that isn't the case, because the, the PFIC law was named and passed in 1986 and Sean pointed out, hey, look, foreign mutual funds really weren't a big thing back in 1986. They were about to be. And foreign mutual funds certainly were not on anyone's radar. And really the purpose of the 1986 law at PFICs was to make it so wealth managers would happen in the US and that if you try to manage your wealth outside the US, you're, you were subject to a very aggressive tax machine. Now what happened and I was there, I was there in the beginning of it was in 2009 was a voluntary disclosure initiative. And it was really specific for people who definitely did it. They were part of UBS's outreach program to Americans who were looking to not be in compliance with the US tax obligations. And so one of the products that they sold was basically, hey, what do you want to do? I want to invest my money with you, guy's free. So what UBS would do set the client up with a shell company and that shell company would have a broker buying and selling not just mutual funds with stocks. And what happened was the IRS realized what they had, they didn't even know it at the time. And then on the fly, they created a special PFIC tax regime. Now this was, you know, we were all, most of us were surprised by this and how we, you know, the accounting for mutual funds really, really aggressive way the IRS does it. The calculations are terrible when someone's buying and selling mutual funds, tracking the basis. It's really a nightmare. And the taxation on is terrible. Well, the IRS liked it, by the way, because, you know, a lot of people were doing pretty good with the all of the first program because they were evading taxes for 20, 30 years. And even with the 20% penalty, the IRS was imposing the time. They were still way ahead of the equation if you looked at it. So the IRS was happy like, yeah, let's get, you know, hey, look, we're getting a little bit more taxes out of these people under the PFIC regime. Now what happened was what the IRS was doing in that and look, I was part of it. You know, I was part of it. Hey, look, watch out for PFICs. Watch out for PFICs. And you can see my early content, I was saying, watch out for PFICs as were some of the other very good international attorneys, Phil Hodgin, Mountain California, he's very good as well. He was also saying the same thing I was saying, watch out for PFICs, watch out for PFICs. And so what the tax interest she did is they sort of removed a not feature of what makes a PFIC a PFIC. The thing that made it a PFIC is there was a company, the taxpayer owned, that had someone passively managing the money for passive income. That's a PFIC every which way. But now what happened is most people don't have that kind of account. They just own mutual funds and they own, and they own ETFs. Well, where's the company? There's no company. And I have a challenge. I might have to raise it. I think it's $1,000. Anyone who could prove to me anything the IRS has ever said that the mere naked ownership of a foreign mutual fund or an ETF is actually a PFIC and you can't find it in the 8621 instructions. You can't find it there and you can't find it anywhere. So that's kind of one of the things you have. And that's just one example. Some tax regimes. So people don't know. Right. Go ahead, John. But it's a good example. I think there's a lot of just average middle class people, they're not in any sort of business. They just happen to live overseas. And they're being punished as if they were some corporation, some huge corporation with the intent to cheat the US government. And there's no protection. There's no protection against that. Well, that's right. I think one of the important things to understand is you cannot expect Washington DC to ever reform itself. Its entire purpose is to, no, and really its entire purpose from the inception, from the inception of the Constitution is the purpose of taxes are to tax the politically weak to reward the politically powerful. That hasn't changed. That is the United States of America. And as John says, and I love so many of John's quotes, the values of a country are reflected in its tax code. And if that's true, what can we say about the United States of America? And basically what I think you could say about the United States, if that's true, that's the image true, then what I would conclude about the United States of America is it's really an elaborate lie. It's an elaborate lie because it's tax code is so complicated, no one really can understand it. And by the way, I learned things every day, things where I'm like, I really should've known that. You're doing this for 20 years, but I don't know that yet. Why is that? And so there's just too much, because it goes on forever and it just goes out in eternity because it's really nothing anyone wants. And you know, where that where Congress is specifically going to attack each and every time like clockwork is the politically powerless, those are the people the government wants to go after the most each and every time. And look, no one's going to stand up for Americans overseas because well, they're overseas there, they must be doing something traitorous obviously. And no one's really interested in that and every time and look, we got to stop and this is where I'm just, I'm done, I'm just done with Washington DC because every time, every time, there's a need for bipartisanship, they find it, oh, they find it in some sort of spending bill and some revenue razors. So they're always lying to us. Their job is to lie to us while they enslave us. So we just need to stop. And that's like, we're never going to get any help from Washington DC. I don't know the answer other than complete economic collapse, and I hope we're getting something a little different than that. But that's really where we are. And it's just such a brutal, brutal situation for so many people. And that's why I look, sometimes I'm a little bit short on time, I'm like, oh man, is this podcast worth it? I'm a little short on time, but then the emails I get from people and the compliments I get for Keith and John too, the emails people say, thank you so much. Yes. I binge watched your channel because I, well, hopefully some of those people giving you that feedback are coming through my program when you guys is three or four prior appearances here. What we get is good. Maybe I should be better about sharing that with the three of you, but people always respond very well into these episodes, these conversations with you guys. Like I say, you guys are doing some vital work. I want to touch on some. You already began a little with the political aspects of this Anthony, but Keith, very often I see some of your commentary online touches on that as well. Here we are overseas, whether it's France, Norway, wherever we may be. And we still have citizenship. We are being drastically, in some cases, affected by the United States government, specifically the IRS and the tax code. Who is representing us? That is a good question and a loaded question. There's an organization called Democrats Abroad. And there's another similar, similar, although less structured organization for the Republicans living abroad. Do they represent this? Good question. And there's some other organizations as well. So that just happens to be the two political parties that are, quote unquote, represented overseas, but we do have other, right, from the political aspect. Yeah, we're looking at the political aspect. And I'm going to be very blunt and maybe for some of your viewers, a bit provocative, but I'm quite, I'm quite frustrated because, you know, we like to hear what I'm about to say is I'm a bit left leaning these days, okay, personally, whether that be in US politics or France politics, my second country, if you will. Having said that, I'm just extremely frustrated with Democrats abroad in regards to the getting out to vote during this presidential election season, because again, they keep asking for votes from Americans overseas, but never, never acknowledge or mention the problems of Americans overseas, whether that be from them directly or from their surrogates, whether that be, you know, somebody, for example, like Nancy Pelosi or they have Samuel Jackson, a celebrity in the United States talking about getting out the vote, it's never mentioned. And that is a major problem with a lot of these American overseas organizations. They need to get, you know, collectively, they need to be on the same page and to back the solution of severing US citizenship from tax residency. At present, there is a proposal that has been put together authored by John Richardson with Republicans overseas tax committee before severing citizenship from tax residency. It's not a political issue. It should be an issue that everybody backs, whether they're Republican, Democrat or anything in between or nothing at all. And it's very hard to get everybody on board to for that one objective. So to answer your question, I don't know who really represents Americans overseas. I don't. Well, it feels like it feels like no one is now you mentioned you said you're rather left leaning. I'm definitely much more left leaning than you are, and you mentioned Democrats abroad. I was actually voted in about 18 months ago voted in as counsel for Democrats abroad Norway. And I've never spoken openly about this, but I'll say here and now I made a very quiet, almost unnoticeable exit as counsel for Democrats abroad Norway for a couple of reasons, mostly because there is absolutely zero talk about properly representing American citizens who live in Norway who have questions, concerns, issues with the tax code. Yeah. And it's not even compliance. The problem is, and I'm sorry to interrupt Anthony, John, it's not so much compliance. It's to focus on the genesis of the problem and the solution. There's a refusal to do that. And I don't want to just focus, you know, for me, just on Democrats abroad. There are other organizations that just will not get behind severing US citizenship from tax residency. They want to, they want to make citizenship based taxation work better and have these band-aids or carve-outs that just does not resolve or solve the problem. Well, some of these organizations and maybe Democrats abroad also are included in this. They're just looking, they're seeking to temporarily placate anyone who has issues, questions, concerns about the tax code and how it applies to them as an American overseas. It's a band-aid on the problem and it tends to rear its deceptively beautiful head from time to time around election season. The organizations are a reflection of Americans overseas writ large. And Americans overseas writ large need to get behind this and that is a major challenge. Those who I have to endure, the US tax system, they get it. But others who don't have a problem, they say not my problem. I'm voting on Homeland American issues and that's it. You mentioned something. Let's go over to you, John, and let's say that this will be in closing. If the three of you, I'll go to each one of you, if you can take three or four minutes just to address or talk about what I'm going to present for you. For you, John, Keith mentioned some sort of proposal. If I understood it right, that she submitted to Republicans overseas tax committee, I never knew that that organization existed. I hope I'm saying it right, Republicans overseas tax committee, could you address this proposal or document that you submitted to them? Absolutely. Look, the problem is not the way Americans abroad are being taxed. The problem is not PVIX-CFCs, that's just a symptom of what the real problem is, is that US citizens who have no residence in the United States are somehow subject to the US tax code. Again, the issue is not let's leave American citizens subject to the US tax code, but somehow change the way they're taxed, no, no, no. The issue is that people who don't live in the United States are subject to US taxation at all. Now, this phrase says in ship taxation, completely, absolutely and totally masks what's really going on. The only practical meaning that US citizenship taxation has is this, that the US claims the right to impose the totality of the internal revenue code. That means taxes, reporting and penalties on people, one, who do not live in the United States, do not live in the United States, and two, on income that's not sourced in the United States, that's the problem. That's what needs to be solved. That will solve the problem for all people. Now, why is it that my very soul hurts when you say those lines, money that is not sourced from the United States and a person who it does not even live, it just hurts to my very soul to know that that that's the case. We don't even live in the States, our income doesn't come from a lobbying test. That's too kind. What this is, is the US stealing from other countries. This is what citizenship taxation is because if it's US source income, that's tax it anyway, because if it's US source, if it's US residents, they tax it anyway, again, what US citizenship taxation is, is a claim on the part of the United States that it has the right to impose the totality of the internal revenue code, tax of forms and penalties on people who one, do not live in the United States and two, on assets and income that are outside the United States. That's what it is, really, okay? So the Republicans overseas proposal, all right, it's obviously, it's very simple. What you do is you end US citizenship as a criterion indicator condition for doing that, okay? And by the way, what that does is it brings the United States into alignment with every other country in the world, okay? So that's what the Republicans overseas proposal is. I mean, I can send you a link, whatever, but fundamentally, the proposal is to end the United States using citizenship, which is nothing but an accident of birth in most of these cases as somehow justification to show up in other countries, round people up via fat gut, right, the banks round them up, round them up, first thing will report their assets and income and then confiscate a portion of it. That's what's going on, okay? And no reasonable argument can be made of the contrary. Now three way that that problem can be solved, and this is where the Republicans overseas proposal is, one, legislatively, a complete, a complete and total severance of US citizenship from tax residence. In other words, citizenship doesn't matter when it comes to income taxation. It's residence connection to the country. That's the first solution. Second solution, much of this goes on through regulation is you change the regulation, see the task codes says all individuals are subject to this unless you're a non-residential. And so the second thing is you change the regulation and to define individual as a resident and exclude citizens, that's the second way you do it. And the third way you do it is through treaty. What you do is you get the government to not rely on the saving clause in the treaty. By the way, US citizens, you know, you know, you're dealing with a competent tax practitioner. If they tell you that the treaty solves the double taxation problem, okay? You know, the point is the treaty, it's domestic legislation, but the treaty has a saving clause that basically when the US use their treaties, anybody decides a treaty in the United States is a great turnover, literally a percentage of their own residents to the United States because the saving clause says the US always has the right to tax its citizens without regard, you know, to the treaty, et cetera. So the third solution revolves around the treaty, but that is what need to be achieved. Fall stop. There you go, making my very spirit hurt again, John. The truth of the situation, you know, it's such a brutal situation, but the resolution of it does not have to be difficult at all. It's quite matter of fact. It's quite obvious to any reasonable person that this is wrong and unfair. I would love it if you could send me a link to that proposal, and I'll post it in this episode. I think a lot of us would be very interested in reading that. John, where can people find you and the work that you do, or if they want to reach out to you for some help and assistance, where can they reach you? I have two websites. The first one is taxresidentabroad.com. The second is citizenshipsolutions.ca. Third, I'm fairly active on what is it called, X.com now, my moniker or whatever, is expatriation law, X-E-X-P-A-T-R-I-T-A-O-N law. Okay. And I think I have all of that information, but if you would, just send it to me on your email. I want to make sure that the people can reach out to you. You are a wealth of knowledge, John Richardson. Let me move over to Anthony Parent. You have, I just had a rather deep conversation on my program with an attorney. He's half American, half Norwegian. He practices law here in Norway. We got into the philosophical side at times, tumultuous, ethical dilemmas that can arise, depending on what type of law one practices. But Anthony, you as a lawyer, people come to you for help. And that is very dynamic within itself. You meet all kinds of people, all kinds of different cases. But then on the other side of the work that you do, you have this podcast where you are coming to them. You are reaching out to them. How does this mesh in your professional life? Is this an asset that you're doing? I'll put it to you this way. I look at your podcast and I look at the work you do as an attorney and I see them as complimentary of one another. Do you see any conflict in that? Well, I mean, there certainly could be a conflict. And I think that's certainly what other practitioners do, that they jump on the bandwagon. And look, it's a great deal, to be a tax professional, it's a great deal. The downside is you have to learn some complicated things, okay? But after that, it's a great deal because you have an entire nation, a nation of people around the world, deathly afraid of the IRS, paralyzed by the complications. And then the tax, you know, they're paralyzed and then the tax professional comes out and is like, oh, here's your solution. And the person's not in it all in a position to challenge what they're saying. And I've seen horrific, horrific cases after cases. And this is sort of the problem. And also, I'll speak very frankly about the tax industry. Please, please don't. Things that I learned, so I started as a public defender. Started doing that for years, but you know, there's not much future in being a public defender there. It's kind of hard to make a living. So I decided in 2006 to get into tax. Okay. I'm like, okay, I practiced in public defender for years, you know, arguing my briefs, I want a couple. So I joined a tax resolution program to help me become market and be a tax resolution guru. I joined it in 2006 and I went to the first in-person seminar in April of 2007. And the present, the presenter was great, Darren Misch at a Tampa, great attorney, great attitude, really understood how to resolve IRS cases. And this is the thing that was sort of frightening to me, or maybe I deserved a pat on the back, but more frightening to me. So I'm brand new to this. I'm brand new to tax resolution. And the first half of the morning, I'm like, what is he talking about? What is he talking about? And then at some point, the light went off. I'm like, oh, I get it. What he's talking about? I see how this works. And I noticed something. I said, you know, there were, I was brand new to it. I had maybe two clients at the time. And there's a hole. The room was full of a bunch of tax professionals who've been doing this for years. And the amount of people who actually understood what he was talking about, I'm going to put it around, you know, because I'm still friends with the people who were that good. It's only following five percent of the people who I would say I would want them to represent me. And the reason why, and this is what it gets down to is that most people know this, but if you go to law school, tax isn't really the thing you'll want to do, right? And that's not the thing I wanted to do. I wanted to be a real attorney. I wanted to be a real attorney and, you know, fight for truth and justice. And so I did, you know, criminal defense. And I was like, no, I don't want to do tax. It's disgusting. Now they forced us to take tax in law school, but well, you know, I had a chip on my shoulder about it. I was like, well, I don't want to do this. This isn't real law. And that's kind of the way that most attorneys look at it. So what you're kind of generally getting is somebody who just, you know, it can generally be a pretty easy career where you're not going to be challenged that much because no one really knows what you're doing. And the few people that do, they have their own, they're kind of running their own thing. So that's kind of the problem is that the tax industry is hard of the problem. They're the ones who want it this way because it allows them to make a lot of money without risking anything because no matter what, and by the way, no matter what, no matter what a tax professional tells you, you are responsible for what you sign. It's a non-deligable duty. It's a non-deligable duty. You cannot rely on your tax professional. If they do something wrong, you're on the hook because the IRS and we've gone through like, well, you should have found another tax professional, what they'll say. Well, I didn't know what to look for because that's the whole problem. So again, I mean, who would vote for this stuff? Who would vote for something where, hey, look, you can't possibly understand this, but we're going to make you legally bound to it and penalize you if you don't, if you don't agree to something you can't possibly understand, and there's no one in the world who can understand that the US tax showed, not one person in the world. The other problem of this too is the confusion and it's a massive confusion that we're trying to fix a broken system because I would go much, much further than just severing residency from taxation. I would actually go and I would argue this. We don't have a tax system in the United States of America. We do not have a tax system in the United States of America. The IRS does not raise revenue in any way. It is not a revenue raising industry. Jack, what John said, it's stealing and it's confiscatory. What I would say is this is the problem is that we accept the premise of the IRS and we don't look at things, the system, the whole ecosystem, because the whole ecosystem was created in 1913. The IRS is the Omega to the federal reserves alpha. The federal reserve creates money out of thin air. And the purpose of the IRS is to confiscate steel money so that hyperinflation doesn't occur. And I saw the president of Ecuador, I think, or he just said the same thing. I was like, wow, why is it a foreign president knows our system better than we do? And we as Americans don't understand it. And it makes sense. If the United States dollar, which is made out of thin air, doesn't represent anything whatsoever, is supposed to be the reserve currency of the world, likewise, we could expect the taxation to be global as well. Because again, the IRS needs to destroy dollars wherever they are in the world. That is the purpose of citizenship based taxation. That's why I don't think anything will ever go anywhere. Because here's really the thing, 1913, the Republicans, although the great, the great Republicans standing up for liberty and everything like that, they were opposed against the income tax. The Republicans in 1913 did not vote for the income tax, but you know what? The next year, when they saw all that federal money come in, they'll let their objections went away. And that's the thing you need to understand. They're part of the same scam. And everyone is bribed with the federal reserve dollars to do this. So that's really where we're at. So the real solution is actually destruction of the federal reserve destruction of the IRS. You cannot destroy one without the other. They both have to go. And that's where I'm at. And I'm known. I'm known. Most people aren't ready for that one, but that's really the only way to end this and that we can't accept the premise that, you know, and really when John says about stealing, the federal reserve steals from us each and every day while we're sleeping by creating more dollars to spend for whatever foreign wars they want, whatever that is, is destroying the values of the dollars we all possess. And so now we have inflation and then we have capital gains, right? These capital gains are phony because they're only created because of the inflation of the government, you know, federal reserve spending money overseas. So it sounds like a very complicated Ponzi's complicated yet simple Ponzi's. It's, you know, there you go. You know what? That's a great way to describe it, John. It is so simple, but complicated that the structure of is really simple when you look at it, but it's so complicated, then we get divided and it's crazy how we get divided on these things when every American has their money destroyed each and every day. We should all be united against that, right? Yeah. And what I find interesting is that you have certain, I don't know, political groups, different groups of people in society, different people who are active in certain issues that go very much on the issue of freedom within America. And yet they don't talk about the tax code, they don't talk about the IRS and what that does to actually inhibit freedom. I would love to see some of the so-called freedom fighters or the freedom proponents. Look at the situation of just a handful of the people whom I know here in Norway who are struggling, struggling, afraid, they feel oppressed. In some cases they are oppressed because of how their local banks react to the tax code and what the IRS proposes to do to other banking institutions that don't comply. That's a direct effect on me and some of these other Americans over here who are American citizens. So the question still hangs, you know, who's representing us? What can be done exactly? What can be done to fix this? Who's actively trying to do something to fix this? Not enough people, certainly not in key positions. Gosh, I love this conversation. I mean, it's scary, it gives me chills down my spine, but it's an important conversation. Anthony, where can people, now you have the IRS medic that is available on YouTube and I believe on all other podcasts, platforms, the audio is there as well. Is there any other way for people to contact you? Where am I right? Am I right about it being available on Spotify? I don't know if I put, I did have it there at one point, but I'm a little busy. Yeah, so, you know, fortunately, and this, you know, I do have, and I also represent a lot of people, a lot of non U.S. persons investing in the U.S. and so had my channel going along a little bit and then I was, I was picked up by a larger firm. Now at Thavoa and Partners, we have an international client base of an office in Switzerland. So people can, I'm actually in my Connecticut office, but I'll be in New York tomorrow. So I'm at 31st and Broadway. People want to come visit me and you also go to Thavoa, ThavoaPartners.com to find me or irismatic.com. I can't stand up, but I'll keep that up. Spell that, please. Thavoa. Yeah. T-H-E-V-O-ZPartners.com. Excellent. Yeah. Excellent. And I highly recommend that people look up Anthony Parent and see what he can do for you. And if he can't do anything for you, he can at least inform you. The information is there. I love your podcast. Thank you. I love it. I think, and I'm one of the keys so much in John for his participation. I get a lot, you know, we got a lot of comments. It's like what I think one of the comps we had is like, it's like two law school at John and I, two law school students, and it's trying to learn a subject as we go through it in the comments that we have and the realizations. And so it's a lot of fun. And, you know, that's something my dad retired in 2011, and that was something I used to do with them all the time. So it does kind of bring me back. You're much younger than my dad, John. But it does bring me back. I went to law school with my dad. That's why that's the other part. So that kind of reminds me of all that. So I mean, it's just been, you know, it's been wonderful just to find in the community, help in the community with Keith and John. Excellent. Amazing for me. Keith Redmond, tell us where can people find you, where can they find you to find the work that you do? How do they reach you if they need your assistance and expertise? There is the Facebook group, American expatriates for residency based taxation. They can join that group and that group, you know, we keep current. It's on the issues adversely affecting Americans overseas, American immigrants, accidental Americans. They can also contact me directly at us underscore overseas underscore advocate at outlook.com. And also through Anthony's podcast for the IRS medic, the three of us, you know, I'm the resident layperson with these two experts. So I ask all the questions, you know, that people don't know anything about anything one to ask, and it's a great reference library. So through a podcast that we do each week, sometimes twice a week. And then lastly, I think John forgot also, he's part of along with me, we're co-founders of an organization called Stop Extra Territorial American Taxation Seat. And it's an informational organization and educational organization on the problems of the US imposing its tax code outside the US on tax residents of other countries. And we fully support severing US citizenship from tax residency. So there's a number of different avenues there that where they attacked me and us. Yeah. And that's a seat. That is correct. That is correct. Now, correct. Yeah. S E A T N O W dot org seat now dot org. I have people who come to me who are just lost and they just need to take a look at what their options may be or may not be just to kind of, you know, so they can critically think and analyze and do a risk assessment of their situation. Thank you so much for all you do, Keith. Thank you, John and Anthony, for all you do. You three are a excellent team. I we went a little bit over time today, but that's okay. We tolerate a little extra truth, we tolerate a little extra information. Do we not? Right. And don't forget, you're going to be on our aesthetic podcast next week. So I'm looking because I'm going through. I'm getting some questions for you. So I'm looking forward to that, John. Hey, man, get ready to go over time with me. I love you guys. I love the work that you do. Thank you for gracing my show one more time. Stick around for just a few minutes. Don't hang up yet. Let me sign off here. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks again, everybody. Thank you all. Thank you all for watching and listening. Remember, if you're watching on YouTube, and that's what we want. We want you on YouTube. Look at these pretty faces. If you're watching on YouTube or listening on a podcast platform, be it Spotify, Google podcast or Apple podcast, check the description of this episode for information about my guests, but also information about the work I do. Go to johnallenpod.com, J-O-H-N-A-L-A-N-P-O-D dot com. That's where you will find my book, "Yes, I am an author." And if you like reading, great, but if you don't like reading, even better, because this is an audiobook. Check it out. It's my audiobook. It's my story. It's me reading it. I'll get into it. It costs you a little bit of money. It's in a subscription format, $5 a month. I send you a new chapter every week. That keeps me inspired and motivated to keep writing, and it keeps you entertained. Thank you all so much for being here. Remember, there's a lot of love and beauty out in the world. Go out there. Love and be loved and enjoy the process. This is coming home with John Allen. Bye. a lot of love and beauty out there. [BLANK_AUDIO]
