Come As You Are Podcast
Circle Time
Hi, I'm Allie Hamilton, and I'm so happy to welcome you to the Come As You Are podcast. Every week we'll be talking about some aspect of healing, usually around childhood wounds and complicated familial relationships. The topics will always coincide with my personal essay of the week, and this will be a place where we can take a deep dive together. I'm so thrilled to join me and delighted for you to always come As You Are. Hi there, hi there, welcome to our talk. Today the topic is circle time, and I was writing about my lifelong discomfort with speaking in public that is really about a whole bunch of other things, but I remember in kindergarten even, dreading circle time, and in the kindergarten that I went to, that's how we would start every day. All the kids would get in a circle, and the teacher would be there, and there's some kind of little song, you know, tambourine going, and you'd have to go around, and when it got to be your turn you would, you know, say your name, you would say hello, and you would share one thing that you really like, and I remember even at five just feeling this enormous discomfort and anxiety with having all the, everything stop, the tambourine would stop, and everybody would stare at you, and I felt just, I really, really would have liked to have been anywhere else, and sort of the pressure of trying to think of some new thing each day, or, you know, worrying about what I had said the day before, trying to get things right, and so much of my childhood, just like growing up, so much of my experience was about that, was about trying to get things right, not make mistakes, you know, get straight a, like just try to really make everything look right from the outside, which is of course if you're a kid and you're doing that, you're doing it because that's the feedback that you're getting from your primary caregivers, you know, that these are the things that matter or that are valued or that you're either rewarded or punished, depending on what you're doing, you know, that's how you're learning, a little sponge, and with my mom, as much as I've talked about this, you know, she's a complicated person, and many, many wonderful qualities, but also many qualities that made loving her difficult and painful, and one of them was her alcoholism, but there were other things, too, she had a lot of rage, which I understand more and more, as I, you know, as I get older and am a woman in this culture, I think I have a different understanding of a lot of her rage and what was going on there, sort of misdirected, I think that she ended up directing a lot of that toward me, but, and I just didn't realize that it really wasn't, some of it was, I think, about me, but even that stuff was like unconscious, just like blaming me for the end of her marriage to my dad, things like that, you think it was swimming underneath the surface, but also just societal rage, and in any case, she was not one, she was not demonstrative, she was not affectionate, she's really interesting, because her mother was incredibly affectionate, and her whole family, her, her brother, sister-in-law, my cousins, like, you know, my aunt Louise, who I've written about a lot, talk about always see when I go to New York, love her, I mean, they could not be more affectionate, so it's interesting, my mom was just, you know, she was a, she was a complicated person, and she was not affectionate with me, and she was not one to, like, keep on verbal praise, it was sort of like, the straight A's were an expectation, looking right was an expectation, being helpful, you know, all these things became, they were expected of me, they weren't, I didn't get credit for any of that, it was if I failed to live up to some expectation, then I would hear about it, then there would be a response. So that's brutal, you know, for a kid, because you can't get anything wrong, and the minute you maybe don't live up to an expectation, it feels like love is being withdrawn, and that is how it felt with her, it would feel like if you did not get something right, or I shouldn't say you, me, if I did not get something right, it, the feeling was sort of being banished from the castle, you know, and you'd have to work your way back in, and everyone called my mother as a queen, and part of it is she did have this sort of, like, regal kind of stature, you know, she, she was the kind of, she was holding a teacup that, like, pinky was in the air, and I have that, and I don't do it intentionally, I think it's just, like, ingrained or something, but I don't have that regal stature. She was just one of those people that, I think she would, like, walk into the room, and she was a force, and you didn't want to cross her, and you didn't want to let her down, and her rage, particularly, when she would drink, you know, she would drink, and it would sort of unleash, I think, this rage that was always there, because it didn't only come out when she drank, there were times that she would be incredibly, she'd go for my jugular, and she'd be stone cold sober, you know, so there, it was there, it's just when she drank, it really, like, the floodgates opened, and I was her target. If anyone tried to intervene, they would become a target, but if people stayed out of her way, it was me, you know, and I think part of it is, there's a lot of things. I think that she really did feel that when her mother died, I had, I was, it was a week before my fourth birthday, and her mother, who was her best friend, and who we had seen every day of my life, had breast cancer, and she was the last year of her life. She was in and out of the hospital, and it was really painful, and obviously my mother did not want to put her mother under any added stress, so she and my dad kept their marital struggles, they kept up appearances, and my dad had been, like, cheating on my mom, you know, rampantly as he did on everyone. The week after my grandmother died, my dad left, and I think for my mother, something kind of broke, you know, and I now know what it's like to lose your mother, and it is, the grief is so, and again, I'm not painting everyone with the same brush, I think that it really depends on the relationship that you had with your, you know, all kinds of things, but in my case, certainly, the grief was, and is, something I've never experienced before, anything like it, and so, my heart really goes out to her, you know, she's 28 years old, and her mom died, and my dad left, and she was in love with her. I think it was really incredibly, the ground fell out, and she was 28, and suddenly a single mom in New York City with a four-year-old, and there's just a lot for her, and I think in a way she, she would say things to me sometimes, like, it's you and me against the world, you know, that kind of thing, which I didn't really understand what that meant as a little, but I liked the idea of being on this team with her, because I could never really get her, I was always trying to earn the love, you know, earn, like, her attention or her approval, and I can't say I ever felt like it was the two of us against the world, but I liked the fact that she thought that or she felt that on some level at some time, and I think that she ended up maybe because I was her daughter expecting me to have some kind of understanding about what it's like to be a girl or a woman in this culture, but you don't figure that stuff out until you're older, you know, so I think there's just a lot of things there that could have been helped if she was the kind of person who maybe would have gone to therapy or would have, you know, gotten help with her drinking, but she wouldn't even admit there was a problem, so I was writing about this, I think, very, I don't know that it was intrinsic to me, I think it was learned behavior of just not getting things wrong and really trying to be perfect, and no matter what I did or how hard I tried, it just never felt like it was enough to get her attention approval love in any way that was, like, sustainable or meaningful, I was always trying, always trying, and of course you get to a certain age, and usually your teenagers, and you get angry, and that did happen eventually, but some of the other things that happened, I think along the way, just the pressure I was putting on myself to get everything right and never need help, right, my job was to help my mom, help my dad, eventually my mom got remarried when I was 8 and had my brother when I was 11 and then that became, and I mean I was ecstatic, but my job then became to, you know, to take care of him, and to make things easier, and my parents were very social, this was like the 80s at this point, they were out a lot, you know, and I was just home with my brother, happy as pie, I couldn't believe I had this little creature that would come running toward, you know, it was great for me, but it was a lot of work, and a lot of taking care, and making sure everybody was okay, and that became my identity, was how do I help, how do I, you know, what can I do to, and I was not supposed to have any problems, that was not part of the equation, and so I started to feel like if I'm struggling I'm failing, you know, if I can't do things like all the way, then I'm not good enough, and that perfectionism is just a recipe for disappointment, and so it, you know, these things feed on themselves, it becomes a vicious cycle, and my inner dialogue was incredibly harsh and unforgiving, and if that's what you have going on, speaking in public is like terrifying, because, you know, what could be more vulnerable than getting up in front of a room full of people, and like just speaking from your heart, and trying not to get anything wrong, like this is just, you know, that's just as intense as it gets, and so I think the older I got, the more pressure I put on myself, the harder it was, and so even in kindergarten, I was already experiencing that discomfort, and it, it really did not, it got worse, and I was writing about, like, in high school, I skipped my senior year of high school, I was really, a teacher came to me in 10th grade, and I think she knew, I was struggling, I had, at that point in time I was taking ballet, I started dancing when I was 4, and I stopped when I was 16, and it's so interesting, because so many of the things that I was drawn toward were practices that you're like learning to override pain, I ended up dancing on my toes for years and years and years, and, you know, some of you maybe had that experience, or whatever, but if you didn't, what that, what that looks like is you're dancing on your toes, right, you're in point shoes, and you come home from hours of that, and it's like, you know, you're unwrapping, you've wrapped your feet, you've got, like, resin, and all kinds of things going on in those point shoes, and your toes are bleeding, you know, like, it's not obviously natural to us to have all of our body weight on our toes, and so in order to get to a place where you can do that comfortably and easily, you really are training yourself to override pain sensation from the body, and in the environment that I was in, and I don't listen, I think that it can be beautiful for people, I think there are amazing teachers who don't perpetuate some of the things that can go wrong in a ballet class, in a yoga class, like, you know, there's a lot of stuff, if somebody's got that type of a perfectionist thing, there are many places where that can be strengthened instead of eroded, and in my experience, and in the environment, the dance studio I was in, that certainly would happen for me, all the things that were already problematic were strengthened, and so I became harder on myself, and then I stopped, you know, there were, I started restricting calories when I was in junior high and high school, I got migraines, and a lot of things that I was talking about this in last week's episode, you repress emotion, it's going to come out some other way, so I won't repeat that, but I, it was just, I was never satisfied, it was never good enough, and I had a ballet teacher, I remember when I was 13, 14, and he was one of those tough love people, and, which was the last thing I needed, I didn't, I was not a kid who needed that, and there was a day, I just could never get his approval, either, and there was a day that I was dancing, there was a room full of, you know, we were all there, and spinning, and spinning were like learning combinations, and he yelled out in front of everyone, you know, Hamilton, if people, if you could walk into any dance company, and they took, they take one look at your body and hire you, and the minute they saw you dance, they'd fire you, and I, I, even sitting here, I'm getting like, you know, getting emotional, because I remember my entire body flushing with embarrassment and devastation and horror, and, you know, having to continue, and then eventually when I got to be 16, I quit, and that was after 12 years, you know, of like every day, like really, really devoted to this, and I ran into him on the street one day, that particular teacher, and I hadn't seen him for quite a while, and he said, you know, what are you doing? Where are you dancing? Like, what company are you with? And I said, oh, I'm not, I'm not dancing, and he was, like, shocked, and he said, what do you mean? And I said, no, no, I quit, like I'm not, you know, and he, I mean, he was, you were amazing, you know, like, I thought you were, you know, I thought you were gonna, like, pursue this. You were, you know, and I, and I said to him, you know, I never got that feeling from you, like, ever. I mean, thank you, in retrospect, but I never gotten, he said, well, that's just like, that's how I make people work, and I, well, it did not work for me, you know, some people are gonna collapse around that kind of energy, or walk away, or just, you know, and that's not why I wasn't the only reason why, it's one of the reasons, you know, I think that I also understood at 16, this is not gonna be for me, this is not, I was noticing, and again, this may not be at every studio, so I don't wanna, you know, I don't, I don't wanna leave that impression, but certainly at this studio, a lot of eating disorders, just a lot of people just, like, drinking coffee, and smoking cigarettes, and dancing on their toes, and, you know, and that was it, and kind of like, no other kind of conversation going, it just wasn't, I knew this wasn't gonna be for me, but part of it was also this whole ethos of, like, perfectionism that I knew even at 16, this is gonna kill me if I don't pull myself out of this whole way of thinking and being, I could feel it, I don't think I could have articulated it, but I think I knew, I can't go, I can't continue down this road, I won't survive, and anyway, I had a teacher in 10th grade who I think was recognizing something, I don't know what exactly she saw, but I think she understood I was not okay, and there were things happening in the two households, my moms and my dads that were not okay, and she told me, you know, I looked at your transcript, and you have enough credits, I had been taking a lot of, like, advanced placement, she's like, you have enough credits that if you wanted to, you could graduate at the end of 11th grade, but you would have to take your achievement test at the end of 10th grade, and you'd have to take your SATs, you have to do everything like a year early, but if you do that, you could leave, and I was, once I knew that, that was it, I was like, I'm doing that, I have got to get out of this whole situation, I can't be going back and forth between these households anymore, like, a lot of things need to change for me to be okay, and so that became my mission, and I just taught myself the second half of American history, because that normally, in the high school where I was, that would have been taught my senior year, but I was going to have to take the history achievement test at the end of 10th grade, maybe it was the end of 11th grade that it would have been taught, I don't remember whatever it was, I was going to miss that second half, so I started teaching it to myself, and then I wrote about this as well, I had a history teacher, my history teacher who offered to help me learn that second year that I was going to miss and try to make up for the test, and he's the one who said to me one day as we were sitting in a library outside of school, you know, I know that if we had met in college, we would have dated, and I realized, oh, this guy is not invested in my future trying to help me, he's like, you know, like, having some weird fantasies, a married 35-year-old man talking to me about how we would have dated if we had met in college, and first of all, there's no way we would have met in college, I'm not even in college yet, and you're like way out of college, and you are, like, you have a white, I mean, it was just, and this man started, you know, sending, like, love letters to me, I mean, I had to drop out of model UN because he was the guy, he was a chaperone, if you went out of town to go and, like, debate at other schools, he was the guy that couldn't go anymore, there's a lot of things, and I was writing about this idea of taking up space in the world and feeling like you're entitled to take up space in the world, and so many experiences along the way, like that one, teach you, as a girl or a woman, you know, it's not, it's not always safe for you to take up space, your value is based on how you look, and not what's in your mind or in your heart, you're not valued as a whole human being, and you get a lot of that messaging as a girl growing up in this culture, and as a woman, it doesn't, it's not like it ends, it continues, and so, you know, if you don't, if you haven't lived that, and in our culture, people who don't live that are straight white men, right, straight white men can walk into any space, now I'm not saying, listen, there are a lot of straight white men who have abuse in their backgrounds, you know, it's not like, again, I'm not painting everyone with one brush, I'm simply saying we're in a patriarchy, and the people who can walk into a space and own it, if that's in their, you know, if that's, if that is how they've been raised to, to think about things, if they haven't been through trauma, you know, everybody's got different things, if they aren't shy by nature, they're walking into a space like you own it, you can do that, but that's the only segment of the population in this culture that can, and anyone else is fighting for space, and you might not have the tools to fight for space because you may doubt your own self-worth, which is very likely as a girl growing up in this culture because of all of these messages all the time, you know, of how you're supposed to look and how you're, it's just, it's non-stop, it's constant, and as you get older in this culture, you're going to encounter, and I mean, I've written about this, the violence, and the way girls and women are objectified, and the things that happen, I'm talking about, you know, all kinds of things, like being visually assaulted because someone's exposing themselves or physically assaulted, or, you know, there's a whole bunch of things that happen along the way as well that teach you, am I safe in this world, am I not safe? And so all these things kind of, you know, they're all building, and if you ever get to a point where you feel like it's okay for you to open your mouth and say how you feel, it's because you've had to do a lot of work around that, you've had to, you know, reassure yourself that you're entitled to take up some space, and that you have something valuable to add to the conversation. The world around you isn't going to tell you that. I mean, if you're lucky, your family of origin is going to tell you that, and so you'll have some basis. I think the people who have like the girls and women in this culture, and I'm using those terms inclusively, by the way, you know, but the girls and women in this culture who feel empowered or have any sense of that, it's be, you know, largely because of what happens at home, still you go out in the world, and it's not like you're going to miss the billboards and the, you know, the commercials and the all of it. It's no matter what you do or what background you have, you're going to be facing this stuff, but I think you have a leg up if you are coming out of a family of origin that has, when you cried, you know, stop to see like, what's happening? Are you okay? What, you know, oh, you're feeling sad? Tell me about that. Not don't be sad or oh, you're feeling angry. Okay, I understand why you're feeling angry. I'd be angry too right now. That validation, you know, or not. And I think there's also like the generation you're in, Gen X, you know, for me, certainly my job was to be helpful. And neither of my parents, neither household, it was not okay for me to express really anything except happiness. And helpful, like a helpful nature. You know, if I was depressed or anxious, my mother did not like that. That was not welcome because it meant she was going to have to stop what she was doing and figure out what was going on with me. And it was her, her tone was annoyance and disappointment and frustration. Like you're, you know, I don't want to have to stop what I'm doing to deal with your, your anger or your despair or your, you know, once she said to me that she's like, you were born with a certain kind of melancholia. And I remember just thinking, no, I was not. That is something that grew because of the environment and the way that, you know, the way that things happened. I didn't arrive here this way. I have, I, you know, I have pictures of like myself as a baby and a toddler. And all the way up until I was four, look pretty happy, you know, look pretty joyful, curious, open. And that is when everything exploded. That is when things changed for me. And so what ended up happening, part of what I was writing about is in 11th grades, my final year of high school, because I did apply to colleges, I did my SATs early and my achievement tests early. And I applied to colleges on my own. My parents didn't even know that I was doing that until after I started getting acceptances. So it's a whole new world. You know, today is like when your kids applying to college, you're completely like in the mix, figuring it out, looking at the applications, you know, it's your, I think most, most parents are very engaged in that process. If it's happening, if your kid is going to college, not every kid wants to do that. So again, I'm pretty careful not to be just like painting everyone with the same brush. But I, we had the speech contest every year in my high school, which was, I dreaded this thing every year of high school. It started in seventh grade, and I, you had to get up at the end of the year and, and give a speech. And I think it was like three minutes. And it was called the Doris Post Speech Award. And I remember seventh grade was the first year in the school. And I got up, and I had my like little note cards. And I straight A student, my English teacher, loved me. I had won some essay contest. I get up to do the speech. I've got my little note cards. My hands are shaking so hard. I can't read them. All the work I had done out, out the window. I can't remember anything. I don't even know what I'm talking about. I, my heart's racing. My face is on fire. I mean, and he just looked at me and he was like, why don't you sit down and you can give me, you can do the speech after school just to me. I mean, it was like, and I was so mortified that I had let him down and like embarrassed myself in front of the entire class and kind of shown my hand, so to speak, and shown myself not to be perfect and not to be able to do everything well. And it was just like the shame. I felt a lot of shame, but also a lot of gratitude that he was letting me not have to stand there and just just want the world to swallow me. It was that circle time feeling again. And I did give him that speech one-on-one after school. He allowed me to do that that year, but it was like PTSD after that too. It just, it kind of like compounded things, not because he allowed me to do that, but just because I realized I lost it in front of everyone. Like I couldn't do it. And so then in eighth grade, the same kind of like panic leading up to this speech contest cut to eleventh grade, I'm in AP English. And I was the only girl in the class. And so, and I except for my English teacher, who was a woman, and I loved her. I loved her. She was amazing. You know what? Jane Connell, I'm going to like shout it out. Amazing, amazing teacher. And just, I mean, passionate and like such a great job conveying that, you know, passion and teaching classics and just making them so relevant. And I loved her. I wrote a speech about what was happening in that room is because I was the only girl and I was in a whole room full of seniors. It was all senior boys. It was like, you know, burping and farting and all kinds of stuff going on. Teenage boys as, but I would, we would be like, I'd be sort of with the teacher. Like, it's like, is this, is this what it is? You know, this is what this is what it is. So I wrote a speech about it. I wrote a speech about the difference, but like the societal kind of acceptance of that kind of behavior and how you don't see groups of girls burping and farting and laughing and high-fiving each other, but you see groups of teenage boys doing that. And he's talking about men on the street who spit, I grew up in New York City. So I'm seeing a lot of stuff. And so I wrote a speech about it. Well, I sort of accidentally won. You know, I didn't, I didn't think that speech was going to be a, like a winning speech, but I got up and I gave it to the class. And of course, the boys were like on the floor laughing. And she, I won. Which meant I had to give it to the entire school, which meant literally everyone, like all the teachers, the principal, the entire student body, you know, you get up on stage in the auditorium, you need to deliver your speech. And I was beside myself. I did not, I was begging her, please, please don't make me do this. Give it to the runner up. I don't want this award. I can't do it. I can't do it. You know, this is not, it's not going to go well. I can't do it. And I think she like really cared about me, you know, and my well-being. And she was just like, you're, you're going to do it. You're doing it. And like, you can do it. And you know, she would not let me back out of it. No, I mean, I was like sobbing. And I just think she knew it was really good for my development as a human being. So she wouldn't let me off the hook. I can't say I felt grateful at the time. It's really like, you don't understand. Like I might actually have like a heart attack and die on stage. I don't think I can do this. But the day of the speech came and I got up there and I was, I was, I was a wreck. I had, you know, rehearsed it, rehearsed it, rehearsed it was like memorized that I still knew that if I had like that fight or flight, it could all go out the window. There was a lectern, so I knew I'd be able to rest my note card somewhere. I wouldn't be holding them in my hands. I knew I would have that, but I was, I was, I was terrified. But I got up there and I realized I was the only girl on stage. So, you know, there's a winner from seventh, eighth, ninth, and on, right? So I, when I realized that sitting up there, I also started to think about prior years. And I realized I could never remember seeing a girl on stage. I could never remember in any year, not seventh grade when I was there, eighth grade. And it, I, because it was at the, we'd have this auditorium, you know, the winners. This was like a big thing every year. I could not recall a single time, not only that a girl had won, but that she'd even competed. And so sitting there thinking like that can't be right. I must be forgetting somewhat. There's gotta be, but I could not, could not think of a single time that that had happened. And something about that just made me just angry enough and just courageous enough that I could get to the lectern and get like the first few lines out and people started laughing. And as soon as people started laughing, I was okay. I just, you know, it was okay. I relaxed. And I was able to, to do it. And it was amazing. I had like an amazing experience. It was incredibly positive. I was, it was really kind of like the only version of a graduation I was going to get because I was skipping my senior year. So it's like this big event to kind of cap my high school experience. And it was, it was really good for me. It was good for my confidence. It was good for my like self worth. It was good for a lot of things, but it did not cure me of the sphere of speaking in public. And it helped, but it didn't make you go away. I think you would have to be doing it. That's why sometimes people recommend like speech toasters. Like, you know, if you can get out there and do speech after speech after speech, you might get through it, especially if you keep having like positive experiences. But when you're 16, that's not going to happen. Anyway, I was writing about all this. Like, I had at a certain point, you know, I went to, I went to Barnard. I went to Barnard College at Columbia University. And in my sophomore year there, I was in this writing class with Mary Gordon, who's amazing. And I was really, I, I felt like I had won the lottery when I got into her class because you had to like submit writing examples. It wasn't easy to get in. I got in and I, I never raised my hand in class. I had never raised my hand in class through my whole school career because I didn't like to be called on. I didn't like to speak in a room full of people. You know, what I would get called on, and I would be able to deliver. But I, I could feel, I could hear my voice shaking. You know, I could feel my heart racing. And it wasn't that I didn't know the answer. It was just, I didn't feel comfortable in my own, you know, inside myself, in the world. I didn't feel safe. I didn't want to get anything wrong because the lessons I had learned at home where the love could be withdrawn, approval could be withdrawn. You know, so there's a lot, a lot of pressure going on a lot of kind of being stuck inside my own head and feeling very alone and also having my head filled with like my dad's very adult problems when I was a kid. So there's a lot of feeling for me as a kid growing up that I was having a harder time than a lot of my friends who were like running around at recess and playing with Barbies. They were like, I just couldn't relate. And I wasn't, I certainly did not ever talk about my mother's alcoholism or my dad's womanizing. So there's a lot of secret keeping and a lot of when you're doing that, people can't really know you because you're not sharing everything. And to me, if I had talked about any of that stuff, it would have been a tremendous betrayal to my mother. As you get older and you're a teenager and you start looking around, you realize, oh, this is unique to my situation. This is not everyone's family. This is not everyone's mom's. Not everyone's dad. Things change a little, but you get angry, you know, you might start to confide in like some of your close friends. But as your, your personality is formed by then, you know, you're, you're, you're kind of like in that mindset already and you have your coping mechanisms. And when you grow up with a lot of flash rage and you know, alcoholic household and eldest daughter syndrome, like all that stuff, yeah, it does not, that is not an environment that lends itself to you feeling like safe, comfortable, calm, you know, able to just open your mouth and speak or walk into a space and, you know, feel entitled to, to be there just because you exist. And so I, I, I was in this writing class and she would assign reading material and then you would have like a writing assignment, a writing response. And I would like agonize over this stuff, you know, I'd be like, I would spend hours trying to, even if it was like a short, you know, short response, 500 words and I'm like, I would really, really try to turn in something because I could just picture, I knew I did not know what her life looked like. I didn't know if she lived alone. I didn't know where she lived. I didn't know anything about her life outside of school. I knew she wrote, but that's, that's all that I really knew. But I knew she had a life. I understood that. And I knew that in her life, she would have family and friends and a whole, you know, a whole existence happening. And that at some point in that whole full life, she would be spending some number of minutes reading something I wrote. And my worst nightmare was being the person who turned in a piece of writing that would make her sigh or like shake her head or roll her eyes. Like that I didn't want to be that person. I wanted to at the very least not waste her time. And at the very best, maybe turn in something that was like worth her time, you know, or interesting or like worthwhile in any way. And so I was really careful about what I was, the work I was turning in. I never raised my hand in class. I did get called on after a while. I think, you know, she was reading these things and sometimes writing like incredible comments. And so she would, you know, she would sometimes, I think she understood. I think there are teachers that get it, you know, that know that like some kids are not comfortable speaking and some kids should speak. But they're not going to raise their, you know, so, but I would never be the person to just like stick my hand in the air. But there were these, these guys in class and they would come in and, you know, I was like, I just couldn't, I couldn't understand because they would completely relax. They're like talking loudly, whatever, sitting down, you know, man spreading, boy spreading, whatever you call, and just like they'd raise their hands and kind of say nothing. And it would take a really long time for them to say nothing substantial. And I realized like, oh, they're like, they're just doing it for like the class participation part of this or something. Or they are just really comfortable talking and talking and talking and really not having anything to say. And I could not wrap my head around it like what how I would not raise my hand to say something. If I didn't have something profound to say, I would not raise my hand. And even if I did have something profound to say, I would not raise my hand. Now I'm not saying that's good either. But this idea, I think that was the first time I was in a room where it became so clear to me, you know, what it looks like when someone feels completely comfortable taking up space. And I started to you when I realized nothing substantial was going to be said because this went on and on the whole, you know, the whole the whole semester was just, you know, it was that when I realized there wasn't going to be anything of substance. I started to watch her. I was fascinated to like, I was trying to figure out is she thinking what I'm thinking, which is like, why do you imagine that your voice is better than silence if you don't have anything interesting to say or interesting to share or, you know, like why are you taking up space if you for nothing for no reason, you know, and I don't know. I'm not a mind reader, but I felt after a while that she, yeah, I mean, I felt like in watching her again, who knows, maybe she was totally used to it by then, you know, it was her second year teaching the year that I was in her class at that school. I don't know if she may have taught in other places before that, but maybe she was used to it and it didn't bother her at all, you know, she like, laugh it off. I don't know, but I imagined that she was thinking the same thing I was thinking, which is just like, be quiet, you know, raise your hand if you got something to offer that's like, meaningful, otherwise, but I'll never know. And I started thinking about that because I watched the 60 minutes interview with Bill Whitaker and Vice President Harris last Monday, and I felt this feeling that I have been on the receiving end when a man is speaking to you and the tone is very proved to me you have something worthwhile to say, even though I already feel pretty sure you don't, that kind of obnoxious vibe and I have experienced that a lot. And I think most women have. There are, you can feel it instantly when you're talking to a man who respects women, likes women, is interested, you know, can appreciate a different perspective and a different point of view and really does want to understand, you can feel that instantly and it's great, such a nice feeling, and you can feel it when that doesn't exist, you know, when you're talking to a man who's like, you know, oh, okay, I guess I have to let her speak for a while. And I went through something like that not too long ago with someone I thought was a friend and it was really shocking and disappointing. You know, it was a friend of mine who said that women would feel, they'd feel better if they could figure out how to be grateful for the patriarchy. And I was just like, wow, wow, like, I got to tell you that's, yeah, that's not a take that resonates with me at all. And it's very rich to be telling a woman in this culture, you'd feel better, honey, if you could just find a way to be grateful for the patriarchy, because it's giving you something to push back against and it's helping you become your best self. That was the, that was the, you know, the great idea he had about all this, that, you know, the patriarchy's giving you a reason to, to, to fight back in it, but to have a positive attitude will only help you in your fighting back or in your attempts to change things. And I tried to say, well, let me, let me, let me just share with you, you know, I'm 53, I'm a 53 year old woman and I've been dealing with these messages from the culture around me, my entire life, from the time I was tiny. And it's taken me this long to be able to step into my power and use my voice just about. So really easy for you to say, but it's not how it works. And maybe, and as I'm sharing this, he sighs audibly, he looks at the clock, clearly I, he doesn't, he's sorry, he brought it up. Sorry, he has to now listen to my feelings, which were, you know, many, about what he had said. He wanted accolades for his genius take, like, oh, just have a positive attitude and find some gratitude and I'll make it a lot, you won't feel like a victim that way. And it'll help you, you know, become your best self and try to like, affect the changes that you'd like to see. And maybe we'll let you affect some of those changes, little lady. And it's like, hi, I, wow, like, I, we need a, I don't even know what to do right now. I'm so amazed by what you just said and not any good way. But there was no desire to hear me. And it just made me realize like this person that I've considered a friend for like, not really a friend. Because if you're not, you know, if I said something to him, for example, and he was clearly stricken and said, you know, I gotta just share a whole different perspective, a lived experience that you're talking about. You know, if I suddenly started talking about like his life and what would be good for him and all men, I would certainly be listening, especially if I could see that he was upset. You know, I would definitely be listening like, oh, wait, tell me about that, you know, like what am I not understanding? That's where I would be coming from. But that is not what I got back. And that's, that happens a lot to women and to girls in this culture, you know, there's just a lot of, and if you're outside the norm in any way, if you are, you know, someone in the LGBTQ community, if you are a black indigenous person of color, like any, any marginalized group is fighting for space and fighting to, you know, be heard and understood and respected as a full human being. And I cannot, at this point in my life, at this point in my practice, I can't not call it out if there are people out there who are saying and doing things that are putting every marginalized group at risk. And that's what we're seeing right now. So I was writing about the circle time and public speaking and different things that have happened along the way in that context. Eventually, obviously, I started teaching yoga. I didn't intend to do that either. I, um, I went to a class one day that I was going to take and the teacher had an emergency and didn't show up. I'd already done a teacher training at that particular studio and the manager begged me to teach because there were 30 people waiting to take class and the teacher wasn't going to be able to come. And I said no at first, like, I cannot do that. And she was like, but you've, you've like the training and you've taken the philosophy classes and like you've been here a lot, like learning and like, yeah, that's for me to understand. I can't get up in front of a room full of people and lead a class. That's not, you know, that's not why I did that or, you know, that's not my, but then I realized and she was saying to me, you know, the worst thing for a studio is to cancel a class when you've got people standing here. Like, there are a lot of people that were like three people that had never been to the studio before. She's like, they'll never come back again. You know, it's, it's the kiss of death. Now, years later, when I had my own studio, I know very well, that's the last thing you want to do is cancel a class when you've got people standing there. You've got to figure it out. I can't tell you how many times when my brick and mortar studio was open in downtown Santa Monica, I would go driving like the wind because a teacher had a problem and couldn't teach and sometimes I don't have my kids in tow, but you teach the class, right? So I realized like I took two subways to get here. I plan my whole day around this class. It's really like if I did that, probably most of these 30 people also did that and it's so lame if they don't get to have a yoga class because I'm worried about what? Not getting it right, not being liked, not being perfect. Like, it's all ego, fear. You tell about me. And I, if I can just focus on them and giving them a yoga class, you know, because that's probably something they really need. Maybe I can get through it. And I did. I got, not only got through it, but it was like, I, the whole thing was about them, right? I'm telling people to pay attention to their breath and to, you know, I'm sequencing is I'm like, okay, make this shape. Now, how does your body feel when you're in this shape? And can you like, lift your kneecaps and lift your quads and draw your navel in and are you breathing? Like, it's all about pay attention to what's happening with you. They're not looking at me. They're like, or immersed in their own experience. And that made it possible for me. I was like, oh, I can do this. This is no problem. People are in downtown. They're like, you know, they're focal points. They're looking this way. They're looking that way. They're not looking at me. And they're not really interested in me. They're interested in am I making suggestions that are like feeling right and what am I feeling as I'm breathing and moving? And at the end of that class, people were, I mean, you know, thanking me, but also just like so lit up and so relaxed. And so I could just feel the New York City stress had like melted away. And these people just like glowing and grounded and calm. And I just felt like what could be better than that? You know, what a great feeling to be part of like helping someone feel better. You know, and that was like a real light bulb moment for me that made me realize the more I focused on trying to help other people, the happier I felt, the more fulfilled I felt. Now, of course, some of that I had to figure out wasn't coming right out of my identity as a child of like being the helper, you know, like my job is to help. And that's my, that's how I define myself. I, you know, to make sure that it was like coming from a really healthy and good place. But that's still different than a bunch of people sitting in chairs staring at you. And I was talking about two experiences like that. And one of them happened when I had the studio open, I had a student who used to coordinate the TEDx talks for Santa Monica. And she asked me to do a talk. And I remember thinking like, Oh man, like, I can do it when people are in down dog and they're moving and breathing. But you're talking about how many people sitting in chairs staring at me. Like, but I want to let her down. I don't want to talk to her about that. She's a student, you know, so to like grapple without myself. And I had a, I was in therapy at the time. And I was telling my therapist, like, I do, you know, I don't know about, I don't know about this. And I think I was going through my divorce. I'm pretty sure. And I think that's why I, I think that is why I was in therapy. Yeah. And she was the one who said to me, you need propranolol. Like, that's all. You just need to take this. She's like, I used to have that too. That same thing. And she leads conferences all over the world and trains therapists. And she's like, you know, I took propranol because I used to have a huge fear of speaking in public. And I don't take it anymore. Because I got so comfortable just being out there and doing it that I didn't need it anymore. And I thought, well, that's amazing. All it does is just it, it basically, your hands don't shake, your voice doesn't shake, your heart doesn't race, but you're you. It doesn't cloud your thinking. It doesn't, you know, do anything. So I was like, all right. And I got a prescription and I did the TED talk. And when I did my book tour in 2016, when the book ended, you know, go and do these readings and people would come and I mean, you're so grateful people are coming. But it's for me, like, ah, can I put them in down dog? Because then I'll be fine. But if they're just going to sit and stare at me like, you know, devastating. And so, you know, powered by propranolol for for things like that because they don't come up that off and they haven't yet anyway. We'll see. But, you know, um, but if I'm on a retreat, I can sit in a circle and talk about anything. Circle time doesn't bother me anymore. So it's not, it's not everything. It's just certain things. And maybe it'll shift over time. You know, it's like, I don't know, but I don't have that thing that I used to have that perfectionism where I am expecting myself to be able to do everything well. All that it's like, it's okay. This is one that's really hard for you. It's okay. You know, you don't have to be able to. And I was also writing about, um, I had to have an MRI after my mom died and um, not related to my mom dying. I had a, I had just, I had to have an MRI and I had to have the kind where your whole head, everything goes on. And I'd had that before. I've never had an issue with anything like that. So, um, they shot me up with dye and they put me in the tube. This is a few months after my mom had died and I wasn't, I was not okay. Um, wasn't doing well. And, um, all of a sudden, I, I thought, what if I choke? I won't be able to like sit up. I want, why would I choke? I don't know. I wasn't eating anything in MRI too. But this is just like, once that thought pops into your head, right? And I just started to panic and I squeezed the, the ball to get the person and she, you know, instantly was in my head like, do you need to come out? I'm like, yes, I need to come out. I was out in like 30 seconds. It wasn't fast enough. I was like, I need to come out now. It still took like 30 seconds to get me out. But, um, I sat up and I was just like, apologetic because I still have that part in me of like, I don't want to inconvenience anyone. You know, I was like, I'm really sorry. Like, I'm so, I don't know what's going on with me. I've never been claustrophobic, but I was having like a small panic attack in there and maybe not a small one, you know, like it's pretty intense. And she was like, look, don't, this is really common, you know, um, we can definitely, you can come back. If you come back, like they'll give you Xanax and, you know, it's, it's, you don't worry, but they'd already done the dye. I was already there and I was thinking, you know, I have been practicing yoga for over 30 years. Like, I've got breathing techniques. Let me see if I can like meditate my way through this, you know, before I decide to bail. So, she put me back in the tube and that's what I did. I just started to pay attention to sensation, pay attention to my breath. And that at a certain point, I was starting to like panic again. And I had this thought that I could imagine the ball I was holding in my hand was my mom's hand. Where does it sounds? It worked for me. Um, and I got through it. I got through the MRI. I had to have another one. I don't know, maybe a few months later. I'm totally fine. But I'd have another one a few months later and I was trying to figure out, do I take Xanax or do I just go and try to like breathe through it? And the yoga teacher type A perfectionist part of me was definitely like shaming myself. Like, you should be able to do this just using meditation and like breathing techniques should you should. And there's another part of me is like, you know, I know I could do it. I did it already last time. But I think the pressure that I'm putting on myself, for what reason? Because I don't want to take a Xanax, I don't ever take anything. Like, so what if I take a Xanax once in a blue moon, you know? I've never taken it before. Like, why would I not allow myself a little compassion and grace if I'm having a tough time with something for some reason? And that claustrophobia became a thing. It's like getting better, but even in like crowds or like the back of an elevator or a concert, like I'm, I just have a, it's literally since my mother died. It's trauma. You know, the nervous system is really interesting. And so I, I took the Xanax, but I had to like, I got on threads and was like, okay, I just don't normally do this, but like, this is what's happened. I have like sudden on like onset claustrophobia. I gotta have an MRI. You know, do I take the Xanax? Do I go in and like, try to just meditate through it? Like I did last time, like go to end that and everyone there was like, oh my, just take the, you know, take the Xanax, let's stop. Like don't do this to yourself. And then two of my really close friends called me and were like, okay, listen, you know, listen crazy, take the Xanax, stop it. Like just don't put yourself under this kind of pressure. What are you trying to prove? We all know you know, you don't have to prove anything. And, and I did, I took it and it was like, you know, it was no problem. I was in, I was out, it was no problem. Um, and Propranolol, you know, if I had to go do a talk with people sitting in chairs looking at me, I'd probably take it. You know, I probably would. If it started to be something I was doing all the time, you know, hopefully I'd get to a place where I wouldn't need it. But it's not everything. It's just certain things. It's not if I'm on a retreat, if I'm teaching yoga, if I'm talking about philosophy, no problem. But if you're just sitting there staring at me in like folding chairs, kind of a problem. So, you know, I had to work with myself. And that took me such a long time to, to get to that place where I will work with myself. I will be kind to myself, you know, I won't put myself through the ringer for what? I'm going to win an award if I get an MRI and I don't take the Xanax. No one standing there with a medal for me. Hey, you know, it's like that's not going to happen. No one is standing there with a medal for you if you never ask for help or if you always ask, like, you know, act like you're okay. No one's going to give you a medal if you're a single mom and you're getting up for years, making sure your kids lunches are packed, they're clean, they're happy, they feel loved and secure, you're giving them a hug on the way out the door. You're not getting a medal. And I'm not saying you shouldn't get up and do all that. I'm just saying you do it because you want to do it. You're not this idea of like perfectionism is garbage. Like no one's going to be perfect. No one's going to get everything right all the time. You know, you're going to have mornings where you're whatever, you've got some stuff going grief. You know, it's like and you're going to do the best that you can and that's going to be good enough. You know, it's cumulative. You don't have to get everything right every minute. And then the last thing that I was sort of really wanting to touch on is just, you know, when I write and when I record this podcast and it's it took me so long to get to a place where I can say how I feel openly. And there is no expectation on my part that everyone's going to agree with me or that anyone's going to agree with me. You don't know when the agreement is not part of the contract here. No one has to read anything that I write, no one has to listen to the podcast, you know. But I can't I can't be writing with the intention of not making anyone unhappy. That's like being in a friendship where the intention is you're never going to upset the other person. You're not going to be relaxed, open, full yourself. You're going to be in the state of high alert where you're trying to please. I lived too much of my life like that. And I cannot and will not do it anymore. I just won't. And I have a perspective on what I'm seeing, you know, in my lifetime, I've never seen a more misogynistic ticket than what I'm seeing now. Never seen it in my lifetime. And so I wrote the essay this week and I talked about that stuff as well. And not just it's not just, you know, misogyny and racism. It's like abortion bans and all the things I've been writing about because my heart's breaking. That's why my heart's breaking. I'm scared for my daughter. You know, I'm this is not the world I want for either of my children. I am beside myself over constant school shootings. The environment, like there's so many things that we need to be addressing and we need sane, calm people to work with. Are you ever going to get every single thing you want from any one person? No, no, you're not. But you know, to me, it's like there's there's only one again by my way of thinking there's only one choice here. You know, you you you make you vote for people that you have some hope of working with and working to make things better, you know, and working to make the world a more peaceful place. There's there's only one option, you know, if you're looking at the options where everything gets worse for everyone or things hopefully get better for everyone. And so yeah, I'm writing about it. I I and I'm talking about it because this is just not the world I want for my children or yours, you know, or anyone's if you don't have children for you, for me. I don't want to. It's like there's so much misinformation and it's wild, you know, wild, like just just flat out lies, right, that are being spread. And it's so interesting to me because I was like looking up the First Amendment. And back in 1919, you'll know this, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. There's this case shank v the United States. And it was about shank had passed out. The case came to the Supreme Court in 1919, but he had been passing out these flyers in 1917 with friends of his and they were basically passing out these flyers to draft age boys and men encouraging them to resist the draft. So the case went to the Supreme Court and basically the Supreme Court said, and this is this quote that Oliver Wendell Holmes used in his argument, that First Amendment writes like when you're talking about a government banning someone's free speech, there's a very high level that has to be met before the government can do that. Otherwise, under the First Amendment, your First Amendment rights to free speech are protected. The exceptions are during wartime, which this was, he said, you know, maybe under different times these flyers would have been protected under First Amendment speech. This shanks right to First Amendment speech. But because it was wartime, these flyers could be interpreted to be causing a clear and present danger. And so in this instance, the government could ban the speech. Okay. In, I think it's 1969, there was a case that dialed that back a lot trying to remember the name of the case. It may come to me. I took constitutional law in high school, so I want to say like over a bocker, but it's not that. Anyway, basically this case in 1969, the Supreme Court said, the government can only ban speech if it is likely to incite lawlessness like a riot, if it's likely to incite violence. And so we're in this inflection point in this country right now where things are being said by a man and his running mate who are trying to hold the highest office in the land. And it's things like legal Haitian immigrants are eating cats and dogs in Springfield. That's not true. And because this misinformation has been spread, I mean there were bomb threats and death threats and schools closed and federal buildings closed in this town because of these lies. They were flat out lies. That to me, this is a moment where, you know, you've moved outside. It's the whole, and when I was starting to talk about Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., famously is known for, you know, no person can falsely yell fire in a crowded theater. You can't say things that you know are not true in order to create panic and harm to other people. That is where your right to free speech ends. And so I'm looking at these things. Meteorologists now are receiving death threats because you have someone in the Republican party saying Democrats control the weather. That's a lie that like we shouldn't even have to be talking about this. It's insanity. And now there are actual human beings. Meteorologists who have been working around the clock with all, you know, Hurricane Helene and Milton, people's just losing everything, right? They're losing everything. And these meteorologists, they're working to get information out, and they have to stop now because they're receiving death threats. They have to stop and like deal with that. The vice president has to call into the weather channel. I mean, you know, this FEMA, Biden-Harris have given all the FEMA money to migrants a lie. So like, and people are in clear and present danger as a result. People are not reaching out for the help that they desperately need because of this misinformation beast. I mean, this whole conversation about abortions after birth, which is not a thing, or gender reassignment surgery at recess without parental consent, I'm in Southern California, okay? I'm in Santa Monica. My kids have gone through the Santa Monica public school system forever. And let me just tell you, every year before school starts, for both kids, I have to fill out permission forms online so that the nurse can give my children ibuprofen if they need it. They cannot give them ibuprofen without my permission, okay? So I just want you to understand I am in the most sort of liberal, lefty school system in the country, and this is not a thing. And so, yeah, like, I'm going to speak up and I'm going to speak out with whatever platform I have and in whatever ways I can because this is not, I don't, this is not what I want for anyone. I don't want this chaos and this hate and this, you know, bigotry and racism and misogyny and women bleeding out in parking lots. I don't want this is not the world I want for any of us. I want like so much more than this and like so much more beauty and kindness and compassion and just like letting people live, you know, just let people, as long as no one's hurting you, like just let people live, let people love, let people pray to who they want to pray or not, you know, just like let people be and you focus on you and what you are, what's happening inside of you and what's happening in your, you know, what makes sense to you as far as how you want to live your life day to day, but like don't vote against other people's right just to exist or to be equal. Like that's not, you know, to take up space in this world. That's what you're voting for, right? Like if you're voting for a ticket that is calling women who don't have children for any number of reasons, childless, this is not a respectful, these people are not it and so yeah, I'm going to talk about it and I'm sorry if it's upsetting, like I am, I'm not, I don't want to upset anyone, I don't want this to be the world we're in, I don't want to have to have this conversation, I don't want to have to be writing about this stuff, but how can I be alive at a time when women are literally bleeding out in parking lots and not talk about it? I mean, what kind of woman would I be? What kind of mother would I be? You know, what kind of person would I be? So to me, if you're practicing yoga for 30 years, I certainly hope you are, you know, trying to figure out like how can I live my life in a way that is loving and kind and decent and that's what I'm looking for. So, and I lived too long like not saying things because I was worried I might upset people, it's not my intention, it's not my desire, but I can't live like that and I don't recommend that you do either, you know, it's much better to open your mouth and speak even if you need some help doing it and even if you have to fight to take up that space, you're here for a reason and you have valuable things to say and share that only you can because only you've had your exact set of experiences. So, that was a lot, but I think that's everything that I wanted to say today and I really do wish you well, I hope you're okay out there. I'm wishing well for all of us, you know, and I know we're not all going to agree on everything, understand that, but I hope we can agree that, you know, treating people like our neighbors is always the way to go. So, I'll see you next time and until then, stay safe out there. [Music] [MUSIC PLAYING]