Tuesday Talks with Darleen
Healing Through Business: A Journey with Chantal Vanderhaeghen {Ep 19}
Welcome to Tuesday Talks with Darlene Podcast, the show that goes deep into the topics of spirituality, intuition, the chakras and business. I will be building on the traditional knowledge of all of these and being a rebel by busting myths. There will be solo episodes and also episodes with guests. I'm your host Darlene, let's get started. When this episode aired on my YouTube channel, Chantal was working in her business. Things have changed since that episode and this is Chantal Now. She is a body, mind and spirit therapist using a person-centered approach to support women going through life-changing experiences who are experiencing stress, anxiety, mental health issues, grief, low self-esteem and depression to come to a place of self-love and acceptance. Nowadays, you can also find her at the Grease Center of Western Australia, working as their administration and engagement officer. A role she never thought she would want to do or get at her age. Yet here she is loving using all her skills and lived experience, supporting not only the amazing staff but also clients. This episode that you're about to listen to, I still believe it is extremely powerful and relevant for today's beautiful world. Hi everyone, Darlene here from Tuesday Talks with Darlene and I've got a special guest with me, Chantal Hagen. Hopefully I'll sit there and her business is unfold your freedom. Now I'm really excited to speak to Chantal today because we're going to talk about mental health and business and Chantal. Yes, that's right. Look, I'll say Chantal. Her vision is to see women realise their dreams by gaining clarity and understanding of how trauma affects their ability to manifest a financially successful business. Now this really hits home for me because lots of people that follow me are aware I do have mental health challenges and I'm now embracing that and I realise there's been so much trauma because I spent 30 years in the healthcare field. So all of that beautiful trauma that I didn't realise until I did a course. So Chantal, I'd love for you to tell us more about you and how you actually got into this. Well, thank you and well, and thank you for welcoming here and everyone who's listening. I think we, as you were just talking a little bit before we started this, we could talk for hours about a topic like this because it's at last we are talking about not only mental health, doing it without shame, putting words to our experience and what I realised is when I was working on my own trauma and I worked on it personally, then it was only just recently or like a couple of years ago when I realised now working with my psychologist who's now my supervisor on how it affects your business. It was somehow I had separated myself from it. I think I'd credit these two personas. In my personal one, I was struggling struggling struggling with complex PTSD and I didn't get who I was whereas in the business one I was trying to be hello, I'm professional, I'm Chantal, look at me, I am fine because that's the mask we made to put on. Yes, you know, we're talking this from young, particularly in the career or in a business, you know, you've got to leave, you've got, I mean, I don't wear my makeup, put on your lip, put on, I don't wear high heels, that's not the point. Little bean high heels, you walk out the door, "Hey, I'm fine." You're actually really inside you are either void or devoid of emotion or trauma or tears or whatever it might be. It could be living in a violent home, it was my childhood, you know, so what happens is, of course, that affects our bodies, but affects how we present ourselves, how we feel we deserve, so whether it be in a business or a career, you know, you hold yourself back to a certain extent or the other thing I found working with clients and talking to people as to find the words is that you can still be very successful but something's still missing. Yes. You don't feel fulfilled, you actually feel really unhappy, so there's the two sides of this, but both come from the same base. Yes. Yes. Oh, I love that and it's just so amazing and that's why I'm now showing up authentically as me and if I'm having a bad day, I'm not going to tell everyone, you know, about it but I will say, you know what, I've had a bad moment and this is what I've actually done to help me work through that and that's what's so important and how do you, how do you support your clients to do that? Well, what I've done is I've simplified everything, so when I finally realized that the trauma, in fact, the trauma became my business or my business became the trauma, because I caught up my DNA, I dropped it into my business. So initially, so I'll go back a little bit, I had a natural skincare range because I've been working with massage and rape and loved aromatherapy, all those sorts of things, I've created my range, but she feels beautiful, feels free. But what I didn't realize was that my business was spinning and I was getting nowhere and then in how long story short, I finally dissolved my company end of last year to dissolve the energy. It was a big thing because it comes out shame, you don't want to be a failure, you know, how did I not know? Everyone else is doing well by me. No, no, no, I had to scrap all that, so I'm still doing a little bit of forgiveness around certain things. So anyhow, but in the meantime, I went back to start doing rape, he, and meditation with clients, I was starting to build, so I thought I could do two businesses, dialing with mental health issues, you know, go figure. This is why I want to talk and share with people. We become even more the superwoman because you just don't want to admit and acknowledge that you are so struggling. You feel, I feel worthless, I feel nothing. So having a business made me feel I could be someone, then of course it didn't work, didn't go where I wanted to do, it's all it did was just made everything worse. So it's coming back to what you're saying. So when I was, I went back to the psychologist, I've been seeing her on and off now for 13 and a half years from the car accident, from that, and anyhow, previous stuff as well from childhood. And suddenly, because I said to her, I'm releasing my business, but I'm going through all the emotions I need to forgive myself, what I want to love. And then she went, that's when she started talking to me about business. And I said to her, I went back a while later, feeling angry that it hadn't been picked up or forehand, nothing to do with her. Then I realized I was incapable at the time of trying to even work that out. So I was too busy working myself out, let alone this. Yes, yes, you know, and you know, there's that if you only knew, if I knew that what I know now, I would have listened to my accountant, who said to me, let it go. But I couldn't, because I didn't want it, as I said, it would be a statistic. So that's why I came into doing this work. So I feel, number one, we don't talk about trauma. Number two, we don't understand what trauma can mean. It can be benign, as Peter Levine says, walking the tide, there can be something, something benign. Mine was a small car accident. Yeah, I had severe whiplash, but it triggered me into complex PTSD because of the history that I've walked into the experience. Okay, not the injuries. So of course, you think, well, why am I feeling like this, lost and confused? I mean, I was a mess versus some of perhaps in this case, we'd had a major car accident, or we'd been through something a lot worse. So of course, we'd minimize. Yes, yes. And then other minimize it for us. It wasn't that bad. You'll get over it. So we don't know how to support each other with empathy, you know, and just, we don't need to understand what the person is going through, but we can accept it because it hurts and comes in with a different layer. You can have the same car accident, for example, but it's what you bring into it. So it's accepting the person for who they are, because what you do understand is you've experienced emotions of anger, grief, loss, confusion, resentment, and also love, compassion, all that. Okay. So that is why I do what I do now, because I want to normalize. I remember his name now, a prominent psychiatrist here in Australia on the radio talking about this. And he said, we need, he used the word democratize. I'm like, oh, what an interesting way of looking at it. I'm not sure, you know, but democratize, it's making it that it becomes a, that it becomes not equal, but it becomes inclusive. It becomes normalized. Doesn't matter where the trauma was, well, it does. But, but ultimately, it's what we do with it. How can we support each other? Yes. Oh, and that's, that's just so important. Like, I didn't realize how important it was to actually zip this and use these until I did the declare of counseling course. And I actually had people listen to me and hear me. And man, did that set off some healing, like to have someone just hold you and just listen to you and not provide advice. The amount of advice, oh, you know, you've got depression. Just get over it. Hello. I know it doesn't exist, darling. What are you talking about? Exactly. And that's what I think. I could get the diploma of counsel to be a different one, but say, but that's when it really powerful, active listening. Yes. Yes. Oh, without the need to judge, without the need to make platitudes, because the other one is platitudes, like you said, it's the depression. Don't worry about it. You know, get over it. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And the other one is because I freely admit that I've had suicidal thoughts and, you know, because I want to talk about that. And when you say something, people are like looking at you going, and they don't know what to say, and it's like, you don't need to say anything. Just hold me. That's all I want. Just hold me. And it's the same thing in business. And this is why I'm so passionate about helping, you know, women in business with mental health challenges, because I want to hold them. I want to support them. So having someone like you do that, it's just incredible. Thank you. And likewise, and that's when you did this more like, because we've obviously following each other. Ladies, we've been following each other on Facebook and things like that. And I love your art. So again, it's finding strategies. So like I said, coming back, it's active listening, being without judgment, because I wrote a blog a while ago about why a psychology or professional versus a friend, because a friend brings their history in, they might give platitudes or make it, but in fact, they may can make it worse. You need someone who is, who is separate from it, who can sit there, professional, not professionally, possibly objectively, you know, and can just hear you, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, or how frightening, like you said, I had, because I've had suicidal thoughts, I've bargained with God. If I don't wake up in the morning, it looks like no, how I would have not. If I don't wake up in the morning, oh, I really love you. You know, something like that, thinking afterwards, well, you know, then I woke up in the morning, went, okay, right, why? So yeah, I have felt all that too, like you, but you know, how do we talk about it? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, when I don't know about you, but I knew I would not commit suicide, but I had so bad that I just thought I bargained. I live right off opposite the hospital and I was sitting at the lounge looking at where I worked, the actual area where I worked, and I went, got my idea, I can walk over, I could take that drug, that drug, that drug, because I didn't need drugs of addiction, I knew exactly what to take, being a nurse, I could take all of those and I could just do myself in, because who's going to miss me, I don't have a husband, I don't have kids that I have anything, my family don't talk to, what's the matter? And thankfully, I know there was someone up there because a switch just turned, and I went, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, what did I just actually say in my head? And think, yeah, you know, like, I'm so grateful, because I did actually have, like, I had a plan and everything, I had all of those things that they talk about, I had it all had everything, and then thankfully, that switch, and that's, that's why, you know, talking to you about mental health for business women is so important, we need to talk about it. We do, and thank you, oh, I'm just going to go sing to me, because it's, because when we're in business, we are, as I said, like we said, we have to be a certain way, fortunately, I'm finding beautifully, it's the feminine, what I call the feminine, that creative side is coming in as well, that we start listening to our intuition, we start talking, we start sharing, it's okay to have emotions, because what I realized was, I meant to be, well, I have been at the extravert, but I became agrophobic, and I didn't realize there's also a word for social phobia, I didn't want to get up the couch, I didn't want to move. So for me, this was huge, because I'd driven all around the world, I was brought up in Europe, all in Australia, brought up in Europe, my father taught me to drive around the Johnson Lees there in Paris, so I could drive anywhere, any side, okay, speak languages, talk to anyone, to from that, to not be able to get off the couch, was it just just too big. So of course, how did that fit my business, I didn't want to be visible, I didn't want to go out, if I did go out, I was too scared I wouldn't get there, once I got there I'd burst into tears, then I wasn't good with, we had been good with money, I couldn't look at my pea nails, because my brain was so scrambled, you know, I mean, we can't go into all the depth of that now, but I had no concentration, couldn't focus, I could not put concepts together, but see them as individual little sufferlights, but try and bring it together, no idea. Now up until then, I'd been highly functioning, highly organized, great memory, and then... And to move menopause, perimenopo, I went into early menopause, and like, you know, children, I didn't realise I hadn't grieved the fact that I wasn't a mother, because again, that's another topic we could talk about, ad nauseam, about this pronatalistic society, it's all around being a mother. So you know, just throw that all into the mix, because there's some complex PTSD I have, it's like, okay! And I'm laughing, ladies, because it's when you can look back, you can see how illogical it is, but when you're in it, it is so real. Yes, it is, it is, and that's like, I didn't realise until I did the diploma of counselling, like I knew of grief, the medical wise, and then going through that, suddenly grieving is grieving an identity, and boom, I just went, what? And then she went grieving work identity, and I just went, oh my goodness, I gave up a 30-year career, that was my identity, and then that set me off, and of course, all of this, you know, I did affect my business, and I admit that, being able to look at all of that and go, wow, you know, this is what's happened, this is why it's happened, because I needed to do this as a business, you know, and it's like, yes, yes, oh my god, yes, yes, yes, yes! Isn't that, like you said, people don't understand that there is grief involved, because there's an identity, because you grapple with, you want to stay who you were, you don't know who you've become, you mean this in between, so it's easier just to do nothing at times, and you think it's easier, you know, and you want to go back to that moment, in my case, that moment before the car accident, I would like to have gone right back when I was driving home, I was the second anniversary of my partner and I leading up in his together, we've got to have a glass of champagne, and a delicious dinner, and within a nanosecond, that didn't happen, it didn't happen, you know, and that's how quickly it can change, or it can be, you know, through divorce, loved, and death of a loved one, I mean there's so many reasons getting a diagnosis, or like you, realizing I'm a woman without children, what is that, where's my identity? Yes, yeah, yeah, I'd left that 30 year career, so who am I, what do I do, yes, I'd started a business, and I was doing that, and you know, and that's the other thing as well, is we don't want to talk about success, like, you know, we want to, like you were saying before, we want to show up and go, yep, I'm successful, and yet we mightn't have a client coming in, all of these things mightn't be happening, but we've got to show up and we've got to go, yeah, you know, I'm successful, and that's the other thing I want to bring forward, because I see so many posts that I know affect our mental health, where you're in groups, oh, I've made 10k months, and within six months I was making seven figure, and I'm like, oh my goodness, like, honestly, is that true for stylists, is that actually true, because they don't say that's profit, and that, yes, that's oh my god, don't get any style, this is a big topic for me too, because again, I was just thinking of how is I going to write a post, literally the last couple of days on my walk, about what to success mean, again, success is defined with material things, and how much you make, even as an entrepreneur or businesswoman, let alone in Korea, and I realized what we don't set a brand, which is what we are starting to do, and I will say us, because success can be is emotional, success can be also physical, because you got over an injury or an illness, or whatever it might be, emotional, because we have come through mental health, but that's not, because you see, there's no KPIs for that, you can't say, oh, that's a $10,000 win or a million win, for me at one point, because it was pointed out to me by a life coach, he has to go, getting out of bed was a success, and I may be looking at a go watch, because that's what I'd done for, you know, 43 years at the time, how could you call it a success, yes, oh, and that was success, success, because I acknowledged it, and I didn't try and push myself, I stayed in bed, I took pain relief, I did all of that stuff, and I acknowledged it, and that is a success, because I am now embracing, I'm listening, and I'm different from other people, I really believe my business has an energy, it's got chakras, like I'm passionate about chakras, it's got chakras, and it's also got an inner child, so they talked to me, they actually talked to me, and they said, you're staying in bed for a couple of days, and they also said, because of that, we're going to rest as well, and boom, you know, exactly, all of those, it says, again, because we often call it self care, I call it caring for self, for me it's deeper than that, and like you said, that is a success, so that, again, so you mentioned earlier how do I work with clients, all those things, it's looking at what you have done, because initially you come in, we've got to look at all right, what's happening for you now, can it be related back to somewhere, when we deal with what's presenting with now, then what we do is, I suggest strategies, but ultimately, it's you who has to create your own, so I give you ideas, because often as women, we don't even know how to care for ourselves, because we're not being taught to you, selfish, good girl, everyone else first, even with even a woman as us without children, we still do that, okay, so coming back to you, so that's exactly right, so what do you do to support yourself when you have a migrate, what do you do to support yourself when you're having a day of anxiety, because it's important ladies or whoever's watching to have strategies in place now, as special as you can before something happens more, but you have strategies, because then you have that go to, because I had a struggle, my first ever, I decided to do a webinar on how trauma affects your business, oh yeah, yeah, webinar, easy, I can do all that now, right, and I put all my, if I got all the information now, again, part of trauma is all or nothing, because I gave it my all, and then I bombed, and about 10 days before I was due to, so something I didn't know, give myself a month to market it, get it ready, so I'm learning to, so again, it's learning to understand how do you operate, yes, not what everyone else says, it's how you operate, it's not, you know, so again, you know, so I had my strategies in place, but then I bombed, I literally bombed, I ended up in a depression, the worst I've ever felt, so the psychologist, I'm a spiritual psychologist, I didn't know my poor, I'm not just looking at me, he simply did, like, he didn't mean that, but it was like, I realized, I'm only doing a webinar for crying out loud, yet here I am, I triggered into every possible negative thing I could, do you know what it was in the end, darling, being on zoom, and well, this was on zoom, I didn't, there was no safety, because I didn't know it was going to predictability, oh well, yeah, because I couldn't understand, why was I, I'd known my topic, I'm someone helping with the slides, I knew, you know, blah, blah, blah, I know I can talk, you know, think of a high donkey, you know, and yet it was safety and predictability, that blew my mind, wow, yeah, so you see, this is how it presents itself, everyone else can do a webinar, why can't I, I've got zoom, I've got technology, I've got internet, it comes from this part, you know, the Amig Dalad, that primal part, no logics, I said, so for those 10 days before, I nearly didn't do it, so those 10 days beforehand, I've used every single strategy, but like you, to support myself through the anxiety, not push through it, some hort through it. Yes, yes, oh, look like you did, you knew what we needed to do, yes, yeah, and I love that you used, I'm not pushing through, because that is so, so much of what I've done past, okay, I'm just going to push through, I'm just going to do it, I'm just going to do it, I'm just going to do it, and then it's like, whoa, hang on, what's going on, no, now I'm going to support myself, and that's why when I load acrylic pouring, and it's like, oh my goodness, so I've got all these things I can do now, when I'm not feeling right, you know, I can create soap, I can make candles, I can paint, I can do whatever, and it's, it's, it's not, you know, even if it means that I'm not doing something in my business like creating a post, that is still going to create content in the end, because I can get on and go, okay, this is what happened, and this is what I did. Yes, exactly, and the thing is, this is again, what we, we, I believe, need to separate from, is that our downtime is also part of our business, so this last, I've been doing, well, since a social meeting, all that's coming, and this new way of doing business, can we go to the old way, because it's like, I'm nearly 60, so it's like, in the old days, like, happily, I'm saying this, but anyhow, we no longer know how to separate business from personal, but like you said, your creativity is your downtime, that's you, because of course it's part of business, that's where you can get your insights, or, you know, as you said, you create those posts, so like, you know, talking about creativity ladies, because I've been doing stuff too, this is my downtime, now I have no idea what I'm doing, but I allow it to flow, this is coming back into the film, and inside I wanted to work with dots, now I had to really let go of perfectionism, it's not getting at rhyme, or that, numbering in colours together, I never thought I would, you know, I'm following some at the moment to do zen doodling, because like you, I know, I had to struggle with, I'm taking the time, I'm taking the time off work, again, when you're in trauma or mental health, you get this obsessive nature, even when I was meditating, Darlene, I was still trying to work things out, yeah, both are analysed, yep, we do, yep, yep, think things through, yeah, I'm exhausted, it wasn't me as well, because 30 years in a health career, like you really had to be so strict with everything, your time management, you know, a patient would come in, like I worked in emergency, and I worked as a student paramedic, and all of that, so you can imagine how I had to analyse everything, I had to be a detective, same thing in business, it's like, oh no, so now I've got a routine where I do actually shut off from my business, I talk to my business, it is actually an energy, it's an energy, and I talk to it when I say okay, thank you so much for the day, now I'm going to close down, and now it's time for me, you can rest, and then I do the same thing in the morning, good morning business, and that is how I've really learned to, my business is still part of me, but I can actually turn off, and that's it, a part of me, because that's trauma, it's part of me, business is part of me, and it'll always be part of trauma, it'll always be part of you, it's how you manage it, and it will appear, I love it, and I agree with you energy, because I started working with your cashew records a couple of years ago, and with the Rakey Masters, well like you, it was like, oh my god, thank you, the things that come through, and that's how I was able to finally dissolve my previous company come back to being a sole trader, going yippee, the freedom, yes, when you can finally let go of this dream that you had out here, because you're following other people's story and their energy, drop into your, so again, coming back, that's how I work, we drop back into you, what suits you, your energy, your personality, your finances, because when I talk to a financial advisor, interestingly enough, I measure in Africa on a meditation so far, and she lived down the road from me, and she works with spirituality and Buddhism, and when she helped me get through all what I hadn't done and done, you know, all that sort of stuff, she sat down and said, right, how much, let's work out how much do you need to earn a year to have a good life, my god, it was this compared to this, yes, I didn't need the six million, I didn't six dot six, you know, figure seven figure, but yeah, I got caught up in the lifestyle or the potentiality, no, I don't, I need this, now this at the moment still feels a lot, it was like, oh, darling, yes, I'm, and that is what I love, you know, anyone that comes across me, I love saying, you know, you don't need to make six and seven figures, work out what is right for you, and aim for that, you know, because you've got all of these people going, oh, you know, you've got to earn six and seven figures, and you don't, you do what the right you don't do, and that's why I struggle with business coaches, because it's like, my body, some of the time my body will just go, no, that is not right for you, and I listen and I go, okay, business, what's going on, and that, that's why I'm so passionate about reconnecting to our body, and listening to what our body says, if someone is giving me advice, I listen to my body in my business, they will talk together, and I get a yes, or a no, or, you know, happy you think about that, and yeah, it's, it's so, it's so much more successful, and that's what, sorry, no, no, no, I'm not really, I'm listening darling, I'm not happy, I'm not happy, and that's, and the only reason I'm being successful at that is because I looked at my mental health, I looked at, okay, I've got depression, I've got anxiety, and I've got PTSD, I've got suicidal thoughts, what's going on, let's have a look at all of that, and go from there, and wow, it was just incredible, like, you know, and it's made such a difference, and I work with a psychologist as well, I have one, freely admit that as well, I need a psychologist, and it's just, it's been so good, yeah, it is, and I think coming back to what you're saying about culture, so this is two things, coming from the program, it's my father, you know, be through Alanon and Alatine, take what you want and leave the rest, that's what I'm learning to do, so like you said, it's about discerning, so it's basically what you're saying, number two, coaches have been in the train by NLP to create fear for you to buy, now I don't want anyone ever to work with me based on fear that I have created this time, you can, within the week, you're going to get all these bonuses, no, because it never sat with me, never worked, so like you said, it's, you've got to come to work with one of, with, with someone that you feel is there, that's number one, number two, I, the other, a few months ago, I was sitting quietly meditating, when I was sitting quietly meditating, it dropped in to coach the coaches, I went, excuse me, I don't even have the training, it said very clearly, somehow, and I don't know if it's going to work and how, we need to start making coaches also trauma aware, yes, yes, and because it's whose responsibility isn't theirs or is it yours, but if you don't know what you don't know, and they don't know how's this going to work, because often what they do is you don't succeed, somehow, it's still your fault, you're to blame, you're not doing it right, well, it's, rather than, well, actually, this doesn't fit you, let's look at how could it fit you, but no, I've got your money, now I'm being critical here, and judgmental, and I'm working through that, some bit mindful how I say it, because it's like, well, when I didn't know what I didn't know, I brought into things, oh my god, oh yeah, yeah, fear based, all fear based, and did I get success from these things, no, so of course, I did resent, but I also had to look at, well, I didn't know how to take responsibility either, but it's making each other accountable, yes, because, oh, come into my group, where everyone's doing well, well, then it gives that fear based, well, if I'm not in that group, either not spiritual enough, or I'm not the success, a lot of all this, rather than going, I don't want to be a new group, I don't actually need to be in that group, it's only when you come to this place, like you're saying, when we come into this place of alignment, and go, you know what, I don't need to buy into that anymore, yes, yep, or I might try it and go, you know what, I'm allowed to get out, because often we think, oh, I can't do that, that's a good girl, yes, why, you know what, I'm just enjoying, delete whatever, yes, yep, yep, totally, and that's why, you know, when I work with business coaches, it will be business coaches for creatives, because they get me, like, all the other beautiful business coaches I've worked with, it's like, this is the way it is, this is my program, this is how you do it, and it's like, that doesn't work for me, it's too bad, then, yeah, exactly, exactly, I think you said it beautifully, because it doesn't mean these coaches aren't good at what they're doing, clearly, they are, yes, yeah, exactly, however, they're not for everyone, but we've created this, it's for everyone, my program, my program, the way I did it will work for everyone, no, it doesn't, so I still think there needs to be perhaps when they onboard you, a lot more questions asked, yes, but again, they don't know what they don't know, so how on earth that's going to happen for me, may or may not, but it was just, it was such an dropping, it was like, okay, like, something was talking to me, so I've made a noise of it, it's parked, and yep, we'll see, yep, we'll see, oh, I sort of loved talking to you, it's been absolutely amazing, and again, I could talk forever, and I will, I'll be getting Chantal again back, because I'll be doing artists those days, so I'll definitely be getting you back, so just talking about your beautiful art, that would be so exciting, thank you, thank you, darling, thank you again so much for your time, I really appreciate it, thank you darling, thank you everyone, thank you, are you interested in learning how to receive, trust, and believe your intuition, so that you can use it within your business, click the link in the description to book in a free connection call, and let's chat about how we can work together, thank you for listening to Tuesday Talks with Darlene, before we go, I would love for you to show some love for your favorite podcast, and yes, that is mine by leaving a review on your preferred podcast player, wishing you a beautiful day wherever you are on this gorgeous earth. 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