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Everything's very, terms apply Allstate Fire & Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. At Sierra, discover great deals on top brand workout gear, like high quality bikes, which might lead to another discovery. Getting back in the saddle isn't always comfortable. Good news is, Sierra has massage guns. And shape wipes too. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving. This episode is brought to you by Honda. When you test drive the new prologue EV, there's a lot that could impress you about it. There's the class leading passenger space, the clean, thoughtful design, and the intuitive technology. But out of everything, what you'll really love most, is that it's a Honda. Visit Honda.com/ev to see offers. [MUSIC] Hello, and welcome to the Five Year Plan podcast episode 558. I'm Joe Walker, your host for this week, as JD has failed to, like, fit this test get well soon. King, so it's a two-hander in the meantime, joining me, the James McArthur to my Joe Ledley. It's Jack Pierce. How are you doing, sir? Hi, Joe. Nice to see you, Mike. Yeah. It's James McArthur's birthday, of course. It is, and I did throw back the interview that we recorded in the last year, just in case anyone did miss it, because what doesn't celebrate a birthday then, you know, a podcast interview with a previous club's fan base. So happy birthday, another reference to another King, so happy birthday. Yes. Yeah, the more time passes. You know, it hasn't been gone very long, but just very much one of the players of the last 10, 15 years of Crystal Palace, and to say his signing will go down, as years go by, in even better kind of light, I think, without signing. Yeah. And we've had an absolute lovely, we've had a still there. Absolutely. Even it is a pleasure. Yeah. This episode of the FYP podcast is sponsored by Eagle, Planning and Development, a planning consultant seat recently launched by an avid Palace founder, aptly named as well. They provide a complete planning service for your development needs, no matter how big or small the project. If you've been thinking it's time to do that extension, what should we do with that bit of land we've got? All you're just seeking advice on anything related to planning permission, get in touch with Greg at Eagle, Planning and Development, go to eagleplanning.co.uk and he'll be able to help. It's a couple of days now since Palace is one-year defeat to Liverpool at Sellers Park. The winless start to the Premier League season continues, but let's focus on the match itself before we look beyond that and onto the core, more long-term chat and questions and stuff later in the week. Is that performance, Jack, that result alone enough to make you worried or is that more of a compound thing or are you not worried at all? I tell you what, let's start with a shout-out to he of this parish and what lovely return it was for the Dominic Firefield on the supplement this weekend and I have to say listeners and you could self-joke and thank Dom for bringing me off the ledge a little bit, I wasn't particularly happy on Saturday, we'll get into various elements of it, but the result itself didn't concern me, Liverpool are going to finish top four this year, they may well even start a title charge at some point who knows, it's very early on in the season, so the result isn't necessarily a cause for concern, but elements of the performance, particularly in the first half, again we're talking about that kind of two-tier performance from Palace at home, the second succession off the United game, where just really passive in that first half and there were various reasons for all that various performances that have caused a bit of concern amongst the fan base, but yeah, elements that I trust will get better, but with seven games in now, without a win, nobody wants to start a season like that and you are now starting to look around the rest of the league and you're looking at results coming in on Saturday afternoon after we played and you're thinking, I don't want you getting a point there, I don't want, you know, picking up a surprise point, you start to, you know, be a little bit relieved when you see Ipswich getting handed, a bit of a thrashing at the London stadium and then you are also starting to look ahead at the fixtures and you see Forrest coming up and you think, okay, they're in a good place but we need to get something out of that and then the one that's really on the horizon for me is Wolves the Way On. Is that the second of November? A late kickoff in the UK, that'll be the late game as well, so that one is already grabbing my attention and I don't think the manager's future is in any jeopardy, I think he's earned so much credit from that spell last year, you wouldn't want to consider board to be at any point of that type of decision to be kind of coming on the horizon yet, but yeah, if we get to Wolves, particularly after the Wolves match and we are still windless, then I think practicality and logic might dictate where that decision might have to go, but I'm hopeful that we won't get there and there were some positives on Saturday too, shine a light on as well as some of the negatives, so yeah, probably not more concerned than I was at kickoff given the result but there are still things not clicking and some of the needs get fixed. It's funny, you know, Don pointed it out on the supplement episode, it's the start in 11, I think a lot of people were crying out for it, you know, a tetrarested, rather than dropped, let's put it that way, certainly someone that's been in need of a breather, but it looks of it, and Katia playing in his natural position, Sargating the start that his form has deserved from the sub-bench, and Shallowbar coming in, in the centre-back role, and Loma, thus therefore going image-filled. That all looked to be what people wanted. We then score in the first minute, obviously it's disallowed, but it's Sarguing played in behind, getting, sort of, shrugging off and getting past Schimecast and then crossing to Eddy and Katia, it all looked like, right, okay, yeah, that's been disallowed, but, okay, look, it's clicked, here we go, this is, we're back, and then we did, we've seen this do that never again, hardly any breaks from that combination in the remainder of the first half, and as you say, it was more about stuff at the other end of the pitch again, some scenes with their goal, very reminiscent of some openers that Manchester United had in that first half, where Munoz is all on his side again, and caught out behind an absolutely dreadful defensive line for the upside. I was amazed that Viva looked at it at all, when I saw how bad it was, it was good for me. Only to have a laugh at it, probably, yeah. Yeah, and then, in real time, my concern, Shallowbar looked like he wasn't quite sure where Jota was or did that fatal mistake that defenders often do, running towards their own goal, where they go to, it's almost like you've got to go to the ball, but it's almost like you're stopping your run to swing your leg back to do a big clearance, and that sort of half a step that you've stopped, that the attacker has just carried on running and has got there ahead of you. It looked like a guy who's not played a game for a very long time, let alone even had a pre-season. No, he was three or four days of training surely, Max? That's about it, I think, and I mean, the term "frozen out" is often misused in football. That guy was frozen out of Chelsea. If he had any pre-season that was with kind of the youth academy, and it showed in that fact, you know, Trevor Shallowbar is a very competent centre-half of Premier League level. That is not the type of goal that he is often conceding. It would have cost us north of 30 million to buy, I would imagine. And he'll be disappointed, but just going back to your point about the first 30 seconds, it was perhaps the best part of the afternoon, Hicoff was greeted with a roar. It actually felt, okay, he's gone with the starting lineup that, you know, the fan really wanted to see it, he thought, "Here we go." Worton plays a lovely ball, you're thinking, "He's back, here we go." Ismela Sal's beating the fall back, and you're thinking, "That's what we wanted to see." Just slightly regretful that Eddie and Katia just is almost too eager, and I haven't seen it back. I often think people say, "You should have looked across the line." Eddie not been where he was, and therefore, offside, would have got to it. I don't know, I haven't actually seen that back myself, but it was a great 30 seconds. And you did think, "Wow, this is like the spring." We're playing at pace, we're playing forward quickly, and then it just, as you say, subsided. And within 10 minutes, we want to know down, and all the energy that's there for an early kickoff, and actually, when an early kickoff, I actually thought the atmosphere was pretty good before kickoff, and you could feel the anticipation. And then that goal did, on a soccer punch, that's a bit, but yeah, the goal was disappointing. That gap down the right-hand side, we've talked previously about Dean Henderson being very good at making blocks, that one just going for his legs. It kind of summed it up a little bit, and when your luck's in, your luck's in, and when your luck's not there, it's not really there. But for me, what's more disappointing is just the way that first half progressed, really until the last minute of the first half, where Sal's played through again and forces a good save. Everything in between, I've thought was really quite poor. So peculiar instances of players watching the ball roll out, conceding the most stupid corners and throw-ins, and it just typified a real, yeah, real lute warmness to our performance and nowhere near where we were towards the end of last season, which week on week I really need to stop referencing, because I think it's not comparing apples and apples right now. Yeah, it is a totally different team we're looking at. In terms of the goal, yes, shallabas may be rusty, particularly in that instance, gays were possibly also culpable with almost letting that ball go across him. I don't know how much in real time he was, how close he could actually get to that. But it just seemed like plenty of things go wrong. That's the old Adam Cell saying though, there has to be free mistakes for a goal. I think there were plenty there to, you could find his free quite easily. I'm sure he asked, I'm sure he's found them. Yeah. But yeah, as you say that, the remainder of that first half, there were attempts to play at the pace at that back end of last season, but a lot of blind passes that were just going straight, no palace player inside, it's immediately back to the Liverpool midfield. I can think of, I think Trenic Alexander-Arnold had a shot from distance that was a water pass. There was no palace player within 30, 40 yards of him, ahead of him anyway, and it was not a unique incident in the first half from Palace, which is architects are in trouble, Liverpool who are a good side, are top of the league, have had chances against them and a few openings against them. But generally speaking, have shut out most teams that have come up against them. We needed to be better than we were in that first half if we were going to lay anything on them and yeah, it had, we had saw, got that goal at the end of the half. It would have been a bit of a, it would have felt like we'd snatched, it was totally an extra round of play and yeah, I felt one meal was pretty fair in the end and it was almost like we needed the whistle, we needed a class in a half time chat and switch around to things just to rally us up. But is it not annoying that we're still there where we're having to need half time again? Yeah, and there was a guy near me saying that from about 19 minutes on the clock and I was thinking we can't be in this position every week where we need to get to half time to reset. It's impossible. And I thought Liverpool, while we, you know, give them their, their due for being fairly smart in part, they had levels to go up as well. I felt they were quite comfortable and, and could have, could have gone up a few levels if they needed to, but they didn't need to because we were playing in such a haphazard way. The passes looked rushed, there was no rhythm, Adam Walton who I'm sure we'll talk about just looks like a player with no confidence, fitness, whatever the issues are, it made us look nowhere near the team that we need to be to compete with a team of Liverpool's calibre. And I think the defence while limiting Liverpool to, you know, a fair, fair, a small number of chances and need to be lauded for that, I just found their distribution because the lack of kind of a midfield at times, although Jefferson Lemmer had a very good game in terms of his energetic profile and kind of getting about the place and making it difficult for his opposite numbers in the midfield. Because there was no option, kind of be in midfield to play the ball and play it through, just meant that every time we defended well, the ball was coming back so quickly. And the pattern was just, you know, really quite frustrating and we couldn't build our own pattern because we weren't using the ball well enough. So you do need to get back to half time in case the manager wants to make a couple of changes or get, you know, someone else on, sorry, make a couple of changes in terms of how it was set up or get a couple of subs on, but and he didn't. But we did improve. So something clearly is working in those half time breaks, but how we need to get to those breaks is troubling me. And we can't go 25 minutes of a half waiting for the whistle to blow. And I've kept telling myself, when we're settled, it will improve. There are some changes that so many of them are enforced in the back line. I think we've played a different back three every game this season. Every game. And the introduction of Shallowbar was necessary due to injuries to riches. And you know, you could argue maybe Klein could play there. Every week that passes on, beginning to think glass is going to be tempted to just bring the old game back together, play will use play, play, find it, send it back and Richard's and just take a car ball cut out of Michael Alysé, you know, that would be close enough. But we had to change it a lot of the back. I do think that back three we saw on Saturday is probably our best trio. I hope we see that trio consistently. In time that I think they'll be very, very terrifying prospect for a lot of people. But unfortunately, you get a Daniel Munoz injury that changes things. The fan you're client does okay when he comes on, but you know, you're always quite limited in how much you get up and down in that wing back role at his age. And then there's, you know, and then Mitchell comes off early off in a sense in the second half. Well, yeah, we'll look at climbs then on the left and it's just all just, it's all about, you know, reminiscing at some periods at the start of last season where there's just so many players missing and defenders filling in and. Do you know when Munoz went down? I didn't even think about Nathaniel Klein coming on because of the role that Daniel Munoz has in that team. Despite Klein being a perfectly logical choice, I was rushing straight to my word, Ishmaelah Sars going to drop back, Edinka is going to go back into 10 and John Felipe Matett is coming on and we're reverting straight back to the shape that people have been saying we need to change from. Or I was even getting to the extreme of Chuck K. Looker Thor on and let's go. Let's just do what we can. So I wasn't actually expecting to see Nathaniel Klein, then obviously that was the perfectly logical choice at that point in the game, but we've been concerned about it since that transfer window shot, Daniel Munoz going off going to change how we have to play. And I don't think we've had any update from from Palace as to Daniel Munoz's condition. So the anticipation is that he's probably not going to be available for at least the forest game. We'll see what we do, but yeah, sorry, interrupt to deflow that gone. Well, I was just thinking it's amazing that he said about Sars, he's played a few times now as a wing back or I think later he played in the back four towards the end of the game. It doesn't look bad there when we're chasing a game. I dread to think what it'd be like if we started him right of a back four or just as a wing back at the start of a game like that, maybe it would it may be overwhelmed teams. Maybe we would just leave a gaping hole at the back there that, you know, Laquois would have to be doing quite quite an amount of work as well as he stepped up. And again, I don't think, you know, there are more for all the bad passing, I think Laquois, Gayie, especially and shout, if all three of them, I'd say had moments where they took the ball, they beat players and try to charge into midfield, each one of them did that successfully. And then the past was to a Liverpool player and it was so infuriating that they were almost there so often. And yeah, despite all this combo that we've had, Jack, I left that ground feeling really irritated that we hadn't taken chances to get there were chances to get points from the game just as it was against Manchester United. There were opportunities, real opportunities to nick it. And we had it here that there are a couple of opportunities in that second half. And again, you know, the changes do work. We do look more positive. Real Hughes did more than OK and looked like our best midfielder this season. And then we had some huge chances, some big, some really big. Did you feel at full time that that was an opportunity loss for a point? I did because I just mentioned that I felt Liverpool had gears to go up, but they didn't. And when a team of that quality doesn't and you're only one, they'll down you thinking, OK, here we go, the game opened up a little bit, a few circumstances arose, you know, the goalkeeper going off to be replaced by their third choice goalkeeper. You're thinking, OK, let's get moving, let's let's hit this target this guy. And a few moments arose and, you know, suspect will be talking about the penalty shout in a moment. But the one that, you know, head in hands moment is, is emphasis. And I think in retrospect, it's probably not as easy a chance as people may have felt at the time. I think XG probably indicates that. I don't know if some listeners won't really care for that, but I'm probably amongst you. But I think if you look at it, if you look at it statistically, it's not as easy a chance as maybe it felt in the moment, but it was the tainness of the effort. The fact that goalkeeper could just catch it in his midriff, you're thinking you haven't even stretched him. And it typified the feeling that some Palace fans have regarding empty at the moment in that he's just lacking confidence and he's not playing with that, that flourish that we love to see him play with. And he, again, had a bit of a game on the periphery on Saturday and that lack of taking that chance probably summed up his performance. But other elements of the game were good, you know, that that 10 minutes we had in particular, I think the penalty shout was amongst it. We played really well. We were moving the ball quicker. Will Hughes did change the speed at which we played the game, which seems ridiculous thing to say in 2024. But he did. He came on and he hassled and hurried, but more than that, he moved the ball forward. Some really lovely passes, really broke the lines and I really enjoyed his performance and I suspect we'll talk about him a bit later in the pod, but then the last after the chance killed us, I felt that the missing of that chance killed us. We didn't really then create anything else, Simon Hooper managed injury time perfectly for Liverpool. So the seven minutes of injury time really amounted to three and a half minutes of the ball to play. That was strange. When it really bizarre, you know, because the player was down, I seem to remember somebody getting treatment for a period of time. Yeah. And it was just not really considered into this at the time. And just as a side, he did nothing to actually encourage Liverpool to play quicker. I think the first minute of injury time was taken up by one Liverpool throwing and the referee did nothing. There were worse offences from the officiating team on Saturday, but yeah, that chance I think just killed us as a collective really fans included. I just felt that the moment was there and it wasn't taken. But I think it was more that not even the fact he didn't take the chance, it was just yeah, that tameless, it just kind of summed up us in front of goal right now. It's been a few of those. I think Ebbs had one like those at the end of the first half against Manchester United. I think you can see him anywhere straight, the goalkeeper. And I must say, in defence of the Liverpool goalkeeper that does come on, he did win the Austrian League last season, he's six foot free. He's not a complete newbie, he is certainly, you know, it's definitely was his Liverpool debut and everything, but he's got that cap on a Czech Republic, probably one of the best third choice keepers in the country. Oh, for sure. That's why I was thinking, who is this guy? And then you read about him after the game and you're thinking, oh, actually, you have got some pedigree. Yeah. Very, very capable. He's just had a fair amount of loans in the football league and, yeah, very much weighted his turn. It's frightening how, you know, we do have a lot of young players that are based from the Republic of Ireland, for instance, but clubs of Liverpool's stature, they have sort of 14, 15 year olds from all over the world and it's the piled up out on loan everywhere. So Chelsea won eight professional goalkeepers on their books. Let's not, let's not. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely not. But yeah, that, that, that ebbs chance was the big one. I think prior to that, he had, he really stung the palms of Alison with a good strike. That was more the sort of attempt on goal you'd hope for him in that situation. Yeah. But yeah, it looked like more would come and then it just didn't. And as you say, the, the game peated out somewhat in terms of chances for us. And the referee didn't really hurry Liverpool along. And refereeing has sadly been the topic of this game after the game. I didn't in the ground know about this challenge. I kind of missed it. I could see that there were general appeals from Mark gay, due to something in the Palace six yard box or Liverpool six yard box, it was about 10 minutes later that something happened. The VAR explanation was on the screen and I realized, yeah, just how close this must have been. The sustained holding sustained holding. I think Steve Paris, wish he signed a sustained holding that year ago, the only time holding will feature on that board this season. Absolutely. Did you think it was a penalty? I mean, I'd be an absolute liar if I said in real time, I thought it was because it was just a melee of, yeah, of bodies and the ball was higher than where the foul was in that the goalkeeper is punching it away. So my eyes weren't on the foul. What my eyes were drawn to immediately was Mark gay, his insistence that the referee speak to his VAR and the speed in which he got to the referee indicated he felt he'd been fouled. An honest player, you know, a lot of people get labelled an honest player. I think Mark gay is an honest player. It's funny you say that because I actually felt he did tread that line with a couple of times in the first half under pressure where he went down and I thought, okay, Mark, you won that one. And Diego Jossa did have a laugh at him, not that Diego Jossa has not got previous at the Salas part ruling over for no reason, for the wind blowing in the wrong direction. But the speed at which he got to the referee and what was real contrast was the speed that he got to the referee and then the speed at which Simon Hooper was saying, no, he's been cleared already. And I was thinking, how can it be cleared that quickly given the melee in the box and, you know, I think, yeah, probably less than 10, 15 seconds at the time and Hooper was saying it's been checked. Very quickly I look at my phone, there's a breaking plan, I think TNT had put the incident on their socials. And in real time, again, I'm thinking, hmm, it's a bit soft and it's probably of that line of the referee's verdict is going to guide you. I could never see a VAR overturn it. Yeah. However, then you see some stills of it, and I know a still could be quite misleading, but there's one still in particular, Virgil Bandite's got both feet planted and he's actively pulling Mark gay back. Yeah. In my view, that is, that's a foul, but the speed of the game, I can see why it wasn't given, but then you see less than what, six hours later, a more blatant and more obvious foul from James Tarkovsky on Sandro Tanale in the Everton Newcastle game, you know, literally being thrown to the floor, but it's effectively the same kind of incident in that the balls nowhere to be played, the balls nowhere near the incident, but he's obviously been fouled. And then you can put, you know, the logic and that sustained holding and, you know, the ball not being, you know, influenced by it, well, then I'll take you back to the first day of the season, every chairs, these free kick being disallowed for something that was happening 30 yards away and nowhere near the goalkeeper or the ball or the player taking the free kick. Once again, we're talking about VAR and the inconsistency of it all and it's become an exhausting, just that the narrative at every weekend is just about referee decisions. Yeah. And it's funny, the, we're in a spot with it now where the threshold for overturning something is so high that we're actually, you know, that Bruno finance red card against Tottenham where they're actually overturning decisions that VAR wouldn't have wouldn't dare touch, which is just, you know, that's where you know is a problem. Also, I think what does highlight the problem, are two former referees absolutely sticking the knife in. Mark Houssey said absolute nonsense on his Twitter page and Keith Hackett said utter garbage. Though those are two verbatim quotes. I normally on a Monday after a palisins and looked to see what the McGalligus had, so I haven't seen what he said this week. Presumably he said, should have been given or was a foul. And, you know, yeah, and it's funny, I wasn't aware of just how many decisions have gone against us this season. I've chosen not to go do lally about it. I just saw, I just felt so much secondhand embarrassment for the way walls and forests and to some, less of a extent, Arsenal handled some of the decisions that went against the last season. But they are building up for us now. That one at Everton, because you mentioned Dermagalligus reminded me that he was insistent that that was a penalty, the challenge on Motetta for Tarkovsky and, you know, they are not the reason where we are, where we are in the table necessarily. There are bigger things of play in terms of palis on the pitch, but it hasn't helped diver. We could be, we could have at least two more points on stage. It would have been wrong had we started this episode talking about the referee. Yeah. It is right that it is mentioned because, you know, get a penalty at that point, it's one one with 20 minutes to go, sell us is up, we're all rocking and we probably still lose two, one listener, we all know the answer, but I think it would have been, it wouldn't have been a surprise and equally that whole line about the VAR, not overturning it, had Simon Hooper given that, the VAR is not overturning it either. Yeah. I just think the VAR has just complicated things so much now and, yeah, I struggle to know what is right and what is wrong now, but so many decisions have seemingly gone against us this year that listening to Jim and Doman that in the excellent episode of the supplement that dropped over the weekend, I've forgotten about this Andre Martinez is flying tackle already because other things have happened already. That's one injustice too many ago for me really to recall, but yeah, frustrating, really frustrating and I think players reactions do tell a lot and for Mark Gay to be so insistent so quickly, it told me pretty quickly that it certainly was a cause for a penalty shout but not given one that didn't go away again, you've just got to hope that that tide turned soon and kind of contributes towards results improving for us. I just hope we're not talking about referee injustices for the whole season because that is going to become tiresome talking let alone listening listener and we understand that. Yeah. Did you see just another shout of another penalty decision. Did you see the incident with Shima Cass' handball? The volleyball. Yeah. That was waved away. Yeah. So it was a gesture that he was in a natural position. So I've only seen steals, was it headed on to that hand? Is that what? I think, well, I've only again seen a very quick tip of it three or four seconds and it looks like Shima Cass has control of the ball and then as part of his running motion, the ball pats down and the joke of it is it's still then given as a goal kick anyway. So, you know, it's perhaps a chance of a corner not given and then a shout for a penalty not given and it's a goal kick again, you're kind of looking at the reaction and the white horse right in front of it were pretty insistent that it should have been looked at and again very quickly turned away. So, presumably, yeah, that logic of it's part of the whole, you know, huge natural motion was kind of considered and yeah, yeah, no, no, not our day on Saturday in terms of referee and decisions. No. I will say one thing in defense of referees, I saw a lot of anger, including my dad next to me at the Jefferson-Lermer yellow card. I think that's something that football has cracked down on in the last 12 to 18 months. Yes. It's a foul guys, it's something that Harry Kane used to do and was so close to breaking several spines of defenders over the years and he built up a nasty reputation for doing that of sort of pretending to get a jump leaving it and then that player is just flipping over your body. Being the apparatus that your opponent goes, yeah. It feels harsh in real time watching it because you think, well, if Lerman decides not to do anything, that's his prerogative but even if Lerman just sort of did a little tiptoe off the floor, I think he'd have been fine but instead he just plied his feet and yeah, that stuff has been really clamped down on in football and we have to accept that as embarrassing it is that Jimmy Cass then rolls around at a rather floor. That's something I think all referees are kind of instructed to blow up for and in even some cases book the play. My assessment at the time was that the yellow was probably for chat rather than the actual foul because the yellow comes 20, 30 seconds after the whistles blown. And he had and there were yellows earlier on in the game for four people calling for there was a lot of like descent base yellow. Yeah, it's made a saw, got a yellow for the other card, yeah, yeah, for one that I thought was a yellow, I think that was semi-casting in the corner weren't right in front of where you are but yeah, I thought it was a shame it was given, I was like, okay, but I'm kind of with you and I understood the logic behind it plus you probably have to stop the game anyway because the players gone down and fall, you know, possibly on their head. So the game would have had to stop anyway. The yellow seem to me to be for descent afterwards but I think obviously given the secrets of events it was very frustrating and oh yeah, again, just kind of indicated to the fans that the referee was somewhat signing with the opposition which, you know, I doubt was the case but it was just a very unfortunate sequence of events for Simon Hooper. And I don't think he helped himself a few times, I felt, you know, does he need to brookish male aside if the fans are right on top of him already for a gesture you see far worse than that. Absolutely and yeah, I think it was around that period there that those incidents where the game just never left our hands let's say and just faded away. I did just on Simon Hooper trivia because I know every list is waiting for the Simon Hooper trivia round, I've seen a lot of references in light of that performance talking about, you know, there's new batch of referees, do you know what Simon Hooper's first Premier League match was and I will give you a clue, it did feature Crystal Palace. Oh gosh, is it a much longer time ago than it's perhaps suggested? Yeah. I'm going to say 2018. 2015, the first day of the season, Cara Road when we beat them 3-1. Blimey. Like that's nearly a decade ago so the ad is new bunch of refs, I just think there's probably more query, that's a vibe-based answer by the way guys, I don't fact check the opinion but I'm pretty sure I'll recall at the time because I think he gave an absolute clanger that day in our favour, I think he disallowed a Norwich city goal or something. Oh yeah, yeah, there was what was the judge to be a high foot I think. Something like that and I think, I looked back and I was like, that was really, well that was over 9 years ago and he's kind of considered that new but he's actually one of the most experienced referees at this current batch. I just think he had a pretty average game on Saturday but anyway, that's enough ref chat this week. Yeah, well as listener Hadley Smith says, looking forward to the decision's balance and themselves out. That's right Hadley. Made a meal of that, sorry Hadley but yeah, if they do balance ourselves out we might actually win a game according to Hadley so fingers crossed, I think we'll see with each further week. A few other things might also need to change but we'll see. Yeah, alright that was a fair amount of chat on that Liverpool game plenty enough for another defeat this season so let's end it there and jump into 3-2-1 after this. Hi everyone, JD here, just a quick reminder that the Palace for Life marathon at March is this weekend, that's coming around quickly and the FIP team are doing the March yet again raising money for Palace for Life and all the incredible work they do in South London. If you can donate, the page is justgiving.com/page/fipopcast2024, link is in the show notes below. Good luck to Jesse, Kevin, Andy and Julian who are doing the walk on par for FIP and everyone that's taking part is going to be a great day and hopefully raise loads of money. So yeah, if you can donate, please do. When you need meal time inspiration, it's worth shopping Kroger for thousands of appetizing ingredients that inspire countless mouthwatering meals and no matter what tasty choice you make you'll enjoy our everyday low prices plus extra ways to save like digital coupons worth over $600 each week and up to $1 off per gallon at the pump with points so you can get big flavors and big savings Kroger fresh for everyone. 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every week don't miss out on savings shop prime exclusive deals at Amazon fresh select varieties Welcome back to the five year plan podcast sponsored by Eagle planning and development a planning consultancy recently launched by an avid palace fan getting in touch with Greg at Eagle planning and development at Eagle planning dot co dot uk he'll be able to help right 3 2 1 slightly more difficult this week Jack after giving what we've all just discussed very big performances yeah one or two performances that I liked and I think our absolute leader has put forward his nomination as well who yeah we probably should actually reference before we give them we've just talked about the the men's team so much we probably should shine a light on of what was a fantastic result a fantastic day for the for the women's team yesterday Lester yeah so JD in his absence has put forward his suggestion for 3 2 1 and is Annabelle Blanchard who scored a brace at the king power stadium on the weekend to help palace women to their first ever WSL win and goals this season and yeah two nil much much needed result it's a brutal division we've spoken about that a lot the WSL particularly for newly promoted sides and some emotional footage after the game from Miss Kaminsky who obviously after taking an absolute beating by Chelsea and even Spurs prior to that yeah just a really really strong determined positive response from the palace side at Lester who had their own chances it's palace the second half performance that wins it but there are some big chances big saves in the first half and they held on proper away performance and a really well taken first goal the the opener some a lovely plate palace Palace Palace men's have not scored a goal that night this season no no it is it did remind me very much of Jean Feline Botetta's first goal against Newcastle back in April that Monday players in close proximity lovely decisive one touch stuff in the area putting you through lovely do you know what my favourite bit about all of it is that Annabelle Blanchard was one of the shining lights last season yeah and and we talked in previous weeks about the turnover in player because of that massive gap between the championship and the WSL so for Annabelle Blanchard to be such an influence in Palace's first win at this level is is great and you know she kept it off with the penalty and yeah lovely tweet from her dad after the game as well just celebrating how proud he was of her but yeah fantastic result and actually given the first two results of the season I really thought it was just going to be a really long time until a win came about so to turn it round continuing 11 in the first two to winning away from home against a team who you know if the Palace team are going to have a chance of staying up this year less through the type of team than he's having their sights it's a really good win and you know shower Annabelle Blanchard but also I think Lexi Potter from Chelsea is going to prove a really fun loan signing for us as well and yeah she she took really good run that leads to the penalty that caps off so yeah I think it's definitely right there we represent the women's team and in absentia Jim is a spot on to to nominate Annabelle for sure Palace is the heady heights of eighth in the WSL now early doors but hey they'll take it they'll take that they'll take that all season yeah in terms of Saturday I am going to absolutely fall into what is becoming a theme of the season and talk about Will Hughes for a minute yeah I think as I said in the first part I just felt he he bought something that we were really lacking and I won't use 3-2-1 to talk about Adam Water let's maybe save that for later in the week but to replace a player who perhaps wasn't offering what we have become used to him offering is exactly what you want from a substitute and and I did tweet after the game that it shouldn't be as noticeable to see a player come on you know Harry players move move the ball on quickly it shouldn't be as noticeable but it really was and and perhaps demonstrates the frustration that some fans had with our performance up to that point but I really liked some moves forward passing I've previously commented about what tidy player I think Will Hughes is he did pick up his his yellow card as he should do but yeah I was really pleased with that performance I think you know given there are doubts about check to Cora's fitness there's concern about Adam Water and I expect fitness permitting for us to see a fair bit of Will Hughes between now and Christmas yeah and I dare say you know we will we will speak more on Adam Water and probably in the questions pod later in the week but with the up and down this niggling groin problem that Adam Water was reported to have and Palace seeming to just play him through it Will Hughes is really making a case to actually just give Adam a give him a week or two quite at the international breaks coming very helpfully there have been some dropouts in the England senior squad in midfield May new and more gives white of both ruled themselves out but causally is opted not to call in any reinforcements so I thought I wanted if you advocate in a Will Hughes call up there no no he's getting closer each week he's moving further up the rankings but you know that I was slightly worried that Wharton would get maybe a call up there worried is probably the wrong word but go there losing at me you know play again I know they do fitness checks for every player that's called up but it just feels like the last thing I think Adam Water bright now just needs this week to 10 days of just having a breather and you know Lancashire Sun just resetting absolutely back up north gonna see mum and dad have a bit of a chill out time that or get out to the buy for five days whatever you want Adam you sort you do you mate you do you exactly and um Will Hughes and I think last season the back end of it is a real proof of that entirely dependable in a glasener system yeah certainly for the intensity and the passing that that is being asked of him you know it's he's not the most fancy player to watch but does all the right things that has his kind of skill set you think about the player that exploded out of the championship all those years ago at Derby as a teenager it was someone that could really play it about quite nicely so he has that about him as well as that grit that gets all the yellow cards and stuff like that he he really has grown to be um sort of a player that has a very combined skill set of different types of profile player that makes him the perfect squad player I think from in the for any Premier League side I know he's he's 29 now and he but he is very much kind of playing in his pick of his powers I'd say and I would not be unhappy with him starting a game in the next few weeks I think you'll see it and um yeah I think if you see sequences of performance I thought he did really well when he came on against United he did really well when he came on um on Saturday and I think we said towards the end of last season he is the type of player that Oliver Glazner will like because he's got that as you say he's got that mixture of technicality and grit um he adds a bit of know-how to what I point to sometimes quite a young starting 11 um you know he knows how to kind of get through games he was straight in the referee's ear straight away which I know some fans think we're a little bit lighting so yeah I I've got a lot of time for Will Hughes and I'm not just saying that because we've released a cup and a mug with you know a phrase about Will Hughes on it and listens you can get that from the FIP shop but he has had a really good how long Oliver Glazner been here now eight months he's done a really good eight months and um he will continue to get minutes under this manager and and I think you know injuries permitting and there is always that concern with Will Hughes he will prove to be a very effective member of the squad um for the rest of this season um so yeah credit to Will Hughes and yeah I do expect him to feature against Nottingham Forest and quite possibly from the start but I'm sure we'll talk about that in weeks to come yeah something else to keep an eye out on with Will Hughes he's on 91 Palace appearances already just just been checking that yeah I was just thinking that for a player again who came with the reputation of not playing that many games consistently getting those injuries yeah he's nearly nearly at those three figures he's played over 30 games in the last two seasons yeah that first year he was with us there was a much more sort of prolonged period out and even in period it was a shame it was badly timed because there were periods where he would actually have come in and slotted in and he just couldn't find his fitness but I couldn't throw those allegations at him recently and let's test them and to him so yeah a worthy place in 3-2-1 this week he's got two goals for Palace one was the Forest game what was his other one I think the other one was the Forest game as well I think he scored I think he scored twice against Forest one in the league one in the cup oh in the cup oh god listen you might have to tune in on Thursday to find out we're gonna have to do some research Joe oh gosh I did not tell you who that goal was oh Everton Everton in the four-nil yeah the uh yeah the fourth of four wasn't it it was the yeah yeah yeah and he couldn't believe it was a luck in that game I think that Everton game don't get too distracted here this is it you know we're already running over for what should be the first episode of the week I think that Everton game in the cup is the only time we started with Gallagher as a lise and saha as to my possibly in my time we didn't we never knew how good it we had it and the tattoo in that team you know no wonder we actually swept the Messiah we never did it again no wonder it was one of the better afterlings at Selhurst in three years yeah yeah but no get out credits we'll use um yeah he's my nomination nomination nomination for three two one this week yes which leaves me in a bit of a pickle okay um I'm going to give it to I can't move on giving it to another defender after this I'm going to say no in fact the fan you'll climb I'm going to give the points in a fan you'll climb um called in into two positions that I think he prays that he does never have to play in anymore um found that kind of new lease of life as a first centre back at Palace is slightly unlucky to not be still playing there for Palace as often as he was at the back end of last season god that right hand side misses it's as much as Munoz overlapping the wide ten if you like then it is the fan you'll climb then overlapping Munoz as well yeah we were attacking as a trio on the right side and that's just decimated now and yeah I think that's as big a problem as anything going on further forward I just think that the right side looks so isolated at the moment but he gave it a good swing on Saturday he wasn't without uh trying and also did his defensive work pretty steadily too including on that left side we you know it's it's so difficult but had a decent game against you know gets thrown in against Mo Salah in that second half and uh does a pretty dependable job so I thought Salah was quiet second well it's funny I've thought about him in the first half he's obviously coming on against a club where he was meant to make his name and that's spelled at Liverpool I'm sure he's got some regrets but well he's he's unlucky there because I think he had a a very long-term injury yeah starting for England at that point and then by the time he got back they'd just given this young stick called Trent Alexander Arnold ago and that emerged and that was it yeah he spelled at Liverpool was was was yeah impacted massively by the arrival or he got coming of age of a player but he he had his time there was a change of manager yeah he got a fair amount of applause when he came on from the Liverpool end as well yeah that that's good to hear yeah that that's and only right because he he served them well um but yeah he came on and I thought he did a good job I thought it was a bit unfair that I think it was um quite early on after he came on and and paliscent a raking ball down that right hand side as if they hadn't realized that Daniel Munoz was on the pitch anymore so I'm sure Nat Clyde enjoyed that and thanks whoever put that ball through but look it's going to be if he is the one that's going to be featuring instead of of Daniel Munoz if Daniel Munoz does miss a sustained period of time then I think we will see a different approach to that right hand side and we might need a little bit more coming the left hand side and I suspect there are questions about Tyreek later in the week listener but um yeah I I thought Nathaniel Klein did what he can do well on Saturday and and and yeah that that's all you can really say he's not going to replace Daniel Munoz we all know that we haven't got a Daniel Munoz replacement in the squad that's been an issue that we've commented on since before and the summer but during the summer and after the summer that you needed another Daniel Munoz in case the situation grows we'll talk about Daniel Munoz I'm sure over the next few weeks but um yeah Klein won't let you down and um yeah another demonstration of his of his versatility and going to kind of left wing back in the second half as well which would be much more comfortable with him if it if he if he used needed in the next coming weeks for Palace to just stick with a revert to a back four yeah possibly but then the issue is you would have to consider what you do with the left hand side yeah because if you go to a flat back four then you're likely asking Tyreek to drop in at left back then what do you do push Mark Gay or Trevor Shallowbar into midfield possibly I don't know I mean then you again we're kind of square pegs round holes uh situation again a new 11 every week again we are yeah it's it's happening to us but given the lack of options a manager has I do think a stranger system might be something he has to consider but let's give ourselves a couple of weeks off from from thinking about that at least and and revel revel in the fact that you know we've got a couple of weeks of the squad hopefully you know getting together and and and yeah being coached by this this coach who we we think a lot of and as Dom said on the kind of supplement episode the hope is that he now earns his crust and and and does what we hope he's able to do whether that is a change system I don't know but yeah Nathaniel Klein is probably more himself he's probably more comfortable right back than he is right wing back let's be perfectly honest about that yeah um don't worry the international break is almost here you know Jay you know we will but I've already I've recorded my international clearance podcast this week getting excited I've allowed myself to get excited about football again thinking about Mason Holgate declaring for Jamaica that's that's that's that's the kind of stuff that gets me spiced up yeah yeah nice nice nice that's your respite yeah yeah yeah so um but let's close let's close 3-2-1 up for this week so I'm quite happy for enough annual client to get the singular point because I do think Will Hughes did more than okay it's a question of do we do we give Annabel Blanchard the fall the maximum three points given the the enormity of that result I think we should note a first ever victory in the top tier of English women's football and uh yeah award the three points of the the woman who's called both girls yeah excellent congrats to Annabel Blanchard three points takes you this early stage probably quite considerably high up the 3-2-1 table um Will Hughes of his two haven't got the actual standings in front of me but I will make a note so JD will add and give us the update uh in a couple of weeks um but that's it for today we'll be both back next later in the week not next week later in the week for to answer your questions that you asked following that Liverpool result until then I've been Joe Walker and that was my good pal Jack Pierce we'll see you later this podcast is part of the sports social podcast network AT&T customers switching to T-Mobile has never been easier we'll pay off your adjusting phone and give you a new one free all on America's largest 5g network visit t-mobile.com/carrier freedom to switch today pay off up to $650 via virtual prepaid master card in 15 days free phone up to $830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax qualifying port and trade and service on go 5g next and credit required contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits to credit stop and balance and required finance agreement as do
