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Discover beauty around every turn. Your road trip can kick off from anywhere. Starting route. But it should always start at VisitCalifornia.com. Then buckle up, crank those tunes, and discover why California has the ultimate playground. When it comes to business travel in Orlando, it's never business as usual. Oh sure, I could go on for days about all the incredible places to hold meetings, or the Michelin dining, or the innovative industries that'll make you feel right at home. But Dr. Michael Edwards of Ocean Insight said it best. Orlando is as much a business capital as an entertainment one. So dive in and see what's happening in Orlando, where the possibilities for business travel are unbelievably real. Learn more at OrlandoforBusiness.com. MUSIC Yes listeners, this is the five year plan podcast. Pod 174. Is it May yet? Please let it be May soon. No, not yet. One way or another. End of May, preferably. No, and we've got to discuss palaces, the most recent palaces defeat, but before we do that... You can't make me, I'm not going to. OK, well, it's going to be a very short one, we've been so many, which was a... We're going to get to it, lads. But before we do that, I need to mention our sponsors. Yeah, lucky sponsors, the jinxes. They've been here since the start of the season. They've had, well, Vecta been here for a long time. Vecta printing for all your printing embroidery needs, go to Vecta.co.uk, that's Vecta with us. OK. And JCIS, the global research and brand consultancy from South London, visit JC-IS.com. I will. Good. Also, Vecta T-shirts are on sale, Vecta with the K, and FIP T-shirts, exclusive T-shirts are on sale right now, from t-shirtmonster.com/fip. Also... Do one of them say I was there when palaces are fucking one? No, but we should make that. Maybe we should make that. Maybe we should make them. Or for the one we do win, we should make... I'd say T-shirts. Yeah, maybe that's a good option. I think we might as well do it properly and go to the end of this year, not win a tour in this year. This year? This whole year, we get to December. OK. So we're going to do it, might as well do it properly. But still stay up in the middle. I'm convinced, and I've been saying it for weeks now, that Palace will stay up, but will do so without winning a league game in 2016. I think I still convinced it. I think it might have to come to that. It'll be very Palace, wouldn't it? It would be, but there's no... Because from December, I've been going... Yeah, and first of all, it was jokingly saying, "I'll sort of, we'll get another couple of wins." And now I just find it... Logic dictates, you just can't see where the win's coming from. You know, that's true. The way we play it, the only good news is MacArthur apparently might be even for the West Ham game, according to Snow's game, which is a good news, but... We will review, not review, preview the West Ham game, in our new extra... We've just done it. Extra... It's a good story that we've started doing. Before we get on to Saturday's defeat to Leicester, I need to mention that if people have been having problems with the podcast, we mentioned this last week, obviously, if you haven't problems with the podcast, you won't be listening to it. But if you know someone has... He explained you thought of him his last week. But we need to keep doing it, because we keep getting people... Tweeting us, if you haven't problems downloading it, or it's playing now and then stops playing later on, do not listen to it in the iTunes podcast app, because the app is broken. Use a different app to download it and listen to it, we suggest you're overcast. Or alternatively, if you're now listening, well done on solving the problem with your... Some of them download on the iTunes app, they play and they're about halfway through they stop playing. So we'll be listening now... To be fair, to be fair, we do get most of our best material out of the world. It's hard to be fair. Complete opposite of Palace. This is not people turning it off and then telling you they had problems with... Who knows? All the listeners count, though. That counts as a ticker in our box, doesn't it? That sounds a bit weird. It's the most important thing, obviously. OK, so if you're having problems downloading it, use different... Don't use the iTunes iPhone podcast app. And also, do us just say... I'm not explaining it to your dad. Well, my dad, I don't listen. People don't like technical instructions at the start of a podcast. People like to know how to listen to the thing they want to listen to it. It's nice to have your dad's ticker in your box. Can you tell me how to maintain my battery settings on my iPod, please, J.D.? No. The other thing is, we are, last time I checked, we... Oh, my iPod. Really? I'm not going to listen to the pod. It's a good point. I mean, you're on it. We are also, last time I checked, 118th in the UK, on the iPhone. Well, Palace. Palace. Well, in form. Not far off it. Not far off it. The podcast is 118th in the iTunes Sports... What are you called? Things out of how many? Well, I'm out of all of them forever in the UK. Oh, well, OK. So, and people can help us get into the top 100 if they go into iTunes and leave us a rating. So, please, if you're enjoying the pod and you're still, you've managed to get to download and listen to it. At least specify a good rating. A good rating. Like a five-star one and then, like, a comment saying, this is the greatest. Well, I think we lost the star for the technical introduction, haven't we? OK. Yeah, one star. I didn't realise this was an instruction manual. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they could leave us a review and then we'll jump higher up the charts. Anyway, that's the admin out of the way. Let's talk about Palace Losing again because... I don't want to carry on with the admin. We lost home to Leicester. League leaders. It should be no two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was one-nil again. All they're going to one-nil. But the first thing I want to talk to you guys is fullbacks, because Swari, again, had an off game to be generous. Do we need new fullbacks both sides? Yeah. Well, the thing is you don't know whether he was playing to a player. I was almost Liverpool angry at the end of that first half because Pardu had spent the whole week being bullish to the point of arrogance about champions don't like coming to Palace. We were in men's city. We were in Liverpool. Always a hard place to come. We all knew, despite, for some reason, the pundits thought we were going to win, but we all knew we were going to lose one-nil. And what the most annoying thing about is even against Newcastle, watching Leicester against Newcastle on the Monday night, when Leicester looked anxious and cramped, but even Newcastle, and all the pundits said, "This is what you do against Leicester." Newcastle put the fullbacks as close to the centrebacks as possible and said, "Right, tack us down the flanks. We'll deal with the crosses." So we decided to deal with that, but I put in the left back as close to the halfway line as possible. The right back as close to the halfway line as he's fitness was allowing to get. We thought the best way of dealing with Maurice, we went for an unusual plan, which is to give him every bit of space he wanted, and just to deal with that, we thought maybe that would confuse him. Do you just wonder about where you want to wander about, and occasionally wave at our left back, who's Christ knows where he is? And that first half was just, they had one shot on target against Newcastle. They had four shots on target in five minutes against us, and it was literally, there was no sense of any sort of play, and the fact is Leicester have got this mystique about them, and fair play till we're hoping to win the Premier League, they're not that good. And then they're not well beaters, but they've got this mystique about them, and we were frightened of them. It was so timid enough, first half, and then you've got Hoothe and Morgan, who in the best will in the world, at most, were all right centre backs in the Premier League, and Morgan, it was, it was in the past. So it's a miracle that Hoothe and Morgan are doing so well. So they must have woken up and seen the Palace team shooting, going, they're playing out of oil, that lovely, fine, we've got a really easy, however long it is before he gets taken off. They were at the Newcastle game. It was, yeah, they of course he was, but there was, we had no sense of any play, this was Newcastle, this Newcastle had a plan, had a way of trying to nullify them, we had nothing like that. We've all been told that Leicester don't like having lots of the ball, they like to hit on the countertop, minimal possession, so why did the Palace try and do that? Well, because we don't react to the opposition that we know we've got coming up, we have this sort of hebristic thing, and thanks, I'm actually being paid by the, by the syllable now. We've got this arrogant thing at times where we don't seem to adapt based on what opposition we're coming up against, and it was a case in point. We said in the last extra part at the end of the last pod, the one thing you don't want to do against Leicester is try to go on to them too much, because what they'll do is they'll exploit you, because they'll get back to front really quickly, they will not bother with trying to pass it through the midfield, they will basically exploit any gaps that you leave, and they'll do so very, very, very, very quickly. And they did that. And they did just that, so for us, and Kevin is entirely right, there was a diagram of that sort of first half of the average positions, and Suarez was more or less sort of left central midfield, it was utterly ridiculous, and he had Joe Leddy's now for some reason being shifted out, out left and trying to cover for him, but lastly he was just drifting up into a central forward position, it was just a bereft of any form of coherence, that performance. If anybody was Markey Morris, it was Ledley, and there's quite a few of this Sunday paper support, but you're putting your least mobile midfield player marking it, and the fact is when every time's a hard work at the ball, they're the swarm of Leicester players around them, every time Suarez got the ball, it literally was inviting him, it's the start, all the things that we all know you shouldn't do, and it was just, and it's said that, watching Leicester for the first time live, you have to be impressed with their organisation, but again, it's not much more to them next, except their front four, the movement of their front four, and the pace that they break out is spectacular, but they're not doing anything in the team that Palace couldn't do. Absolutely, there's nothing, you don't look at them and go, this is an unbeatable, you look at them and go, do you know what, I might put money when I'm getting ready again next season, because by some fluke, a good team is winning the title, and I hope they do win the title without a doubt, but look at that, it's hoothen Morgan for the love of God, why are we not getting out of them, we pace, why don't start we go, start with something they weren't expecting, but to start with, even three of the Campbells, I want to start with a totally immobile, adi-buy, or totally immobile adi-buy, and then to change the entire left side in the second half, you go, well that's, there couldn't be a bigger admission that you got it wrong, so if you're going to get it wrong, don't be so mouthy beforehand all week about what we're going to do to them, so I was expecting this from the very first minute, I thought, well, we're going to really pile into, we're going to really give them a crack, and I was actually thinking, fair enough, I'd rather lose this for one and one, let's have a go, let's do what nobody else has done to them, because they have built this mystique up about them, and then, but suddenly as Andy says, we approached it as though we were a man city, or Arsenal man, you know, like we were a big team and we didn't have to deal with it, and even in the first 15, 20 minutes, you're looking at them going, you see here, surely we can match this, and then suddenly, we couldn't, and once they got the goal in front, that was it, they did, it's one fair score, they were going to win, don't they, yeah, and fair prey to them, they did exactly what they had to do, you know, and then, yeah, don't put the glass in, we know it doesn't work so if you've got to bring Sacco on, put him up front, he'll be able to cycle on it, and we looked more direct the second half, but that's been the story of the season, that you changed it half time, it always looked better, why did he keep getting it wrong, you know, in the second half, and then you bring, I'm sure Andy Boyle will be going, well hang about, why am I not, and I know I had a terrible first half, but nobody got an acrocessing to me in the third, now you've got somebody who's going to be crossing it, I think we've got 23 crosses in second half, the most anybody's crossed against Leicester in one half, and Andy Boyle's sitting there going, well hang on, if I was on the picture now, why don't you play a lot, this is the first half? Exactly, there's a couple from Sacco actually that we're inviting for a striker, aren't they? It just made, why do we keep, why do we get it better in second half than first half, it's happened a lot of this season, isn't it? We've always talked about no plan B, there is a plan B, but why not start with plan B? It's just so frustrating, I just thought we were so timid, I just so frustrating because even though I found myself buying into the start of the week, I was saying to be, I even tweeted to anyone of these people saying that we're going to win this game, of course we'll lose one deal, but as the week went on even I found myself going, oh you know, I wouldn't put it past Palace, it's a small thing we do, but without having to do much, Leicester we're just, as I said they were just a little bit quicker, a little bit more organised, a little bit better, a little bit less added by already than we have. Have they been lucky this season, because Pargy said in his programme notes are less trouble being a bit lucky? I'm really surely so his programme. He shouldn't have been saying that in his programme now, without a shadow of doubt, the fact of the matter is yes they have been lucky though, but lucky we've had some injuries, they've had luck with some refereeing decisions, they even have luck in-game, you know, you look at Saturday late on, Delaney controls a ball beautifully, smacks it off the bar, you know another season against Palace, that flies in, they've had certain games where they've come out of it and very much so in the last six weeks where they have probably been either slightly the worst team or, you know, at best even keel with the opposition, they've come out with three points, but the thing is an opposition manager should not be saying that, it's fine for impartial pundits to say that, it's fine for fans to say if they're trying to be an objective way, an objective manner, well it's a slightly bitter manner if they want to be bitter about it. But frankly a manager to say that in his pre-match material that he puts in the programme, if I'm Cloudy Iranieri and I'm obviously not that docile, if I'm Cloudy around here, I would have taken that into my dressing at that point and got, look at what he's saying about you, he's saying you're not actually that good, he's saying you've been lucky, let's go out there and show them, and why give the ammunition, and why? He's losing it as a syndication, he might be losing it, but the luck thing is, I mean yes there has been some luck, but every team that wins the league will have some luck and the fact is, it's nearly April, the five points clear in the Premier League, that's not luck, and what they've done, and it is a remarkable story, what they've done is, and we've said this on virtually every pod, they've taken a team in which, apart from Schmeicher at the start of the season, you really wouldn't have had any of their players in our team, and they're going to win the Premier League with it, and they were a better team than I thought, watching them live, they're doing us now in the team from Nesta. Well all of them, pretty much, why would you not, if they're five points loose, I'd swap them organ for Dan, well you would look at them, look at their record of considering that. I'd take Schmeicher, absolutely take Schmeicher over here, see that's a no contest, think Schmeicher was a bit of a flat-out contest, that's like a ten-chain dreamwater for whoever we've got in midfield. You don't have to see it, I'd take fugs, you'd take maras, you'd definitely take Vardy. At the moment you're talking about Dan over Morgan perhaps, and that's about it really, which is a bit depressing. Well Vardy, I don't, Vardy's stopped scoring goals, but he's still his work rate, he's phenomenal. Yeah, still assisting. He's phenomenal, I mean that was the big difference as well, is that there, I'd say their front four was, because that's a frustrating thing, they're watching them live, they're a bit of team now, not that I gave them credit for, they're a bit of team now, but they're still not, they're not Barcelona, no one plays as if they're playing against Leicester. You saw that with us, we decided right, we're going to pretend that we've got Danny Alves and Jordi flipping Alver on the wings, we're going to really push up and try to double up on them on the overlap, we're not going to try and pass them all through the midfield, we're not going to sit deep against them and try to deal with the fact that we know we're going to get the counter, we're going to play against them the exact same way, we're going to play against everyone else, which is very, very non-descriptly, but so many teams have done it against Leicester this season, the Man City have done it against them twice and got absolutely tanked by them twice, they've been at any number of matches and it's only been in the last sort of five or six for Leicester, where some opposition like Newcastle last week have now started to go, do you know what, we probably need to now think how we tactically deal with that team that we're going to be facing and how they tactically approach matches and it's only been since then that Leicester found it a bit more difficult, new manager at Newcastle as well, but it was kind of one of those performances from Palace and it's probably been the case for a lot of teams against Leicester, where you don't play the opposition, you know, you've got coming up, you play your own game and this really sort of arrogant and complacent manner, expecting it to be capable and sort of sufficient against anyone, and it sometimes isn't. Where's Morgan? I think it was 27% of the tackles you went in for. Really? Yeah. I'd be disappointed with that. But it's where's Morgan? And I don't mean any disrespect by that, but it's where's Morgan, it was played in a championship for most of his career. The thing I found most... Who Forrest fans used to joke about, because he's wholehearted but slow and it's Robert Hootth, who was a... I know he's one of the champions, was a really competent centre back, but any pundit at the start of the season would choose Delaney and Dan over Morgan and Hootth and it's great and it's wonderful. It's all for anything that shakes out, sort of, but at no stage it's like, well, run at them. Yeah. Run at the two centre backs in. But we're not the only team that hasn't done that. And that's why Lester says what Lester have done brilliantly is to create this sort of mystique about themselves, that they've almost... They carry themselves with the demeanor of champions in a way which kind of is like it's an intimidating effect. And it's... And even like Okazaki, hello? You know, it's Okazaki, but it's just his constant movement, his enemies, but they only do it when they need to do it. Yeah. It's like they're perfectly happy for the ball to be floating them out in another part and as soon as they get the opportunity, the four of them break as a unit. Yeah. And also, how easy... That's the annoying thing, we've made it so easy for Mario's. So easy for Mario's and it's... They always seem to have one more player on the pit, I know everyone talks about cantes like two players, that's bollocks, they've got 11 players on the pitch, they just seem to be fitter than that, so they've got more energy and the fact that they say every time there's a hog at the ball they're two or three round him and every time Mario's at the ball, we've just given him the freedom and the same with their goal, the amount of space Ward gave Vardy for that goal and we've had warnings two or three times before that and then Mario's just on his own, virtually on the pin that we saw, and Suarez wasn't even in the box, it's just, I don't understand what, the Suarez thing, you can only try and give him some sort of credit and say he was doing what he was told to do because otherwise that's a mystifying and I know he didn't have a good game at running but that was just mystifying the way he played against and I don't know whether the plan was that we did get our full backs forward and that we would keep them so occupied at the other end that they would never chance to go, but it was just the trouble of winning the plan, that was mindless. Totally mindless, I agree, I quite agree but the fact is that Suarez is not capable of doing that going forward anyway, but they didn't think Suarez is going to do that, and I think that he's had a decent few games but he's not quick enough to cover in that space beyond it, well it's a net case, but lassie doing it, it's just that I know we're all armchair experts but we all watch the game against new cars and we all go okay, that's good, new cars have made a fair fist of it so let's look, after five minutes, let's realise that they've beaten us. The problem was it was just to really predict from front to start, the problem is like if you set up in the manner that we set up and if you have those three in midfield that we've had now for a few weeks and nobody really operating at number ten and the opposition knowing that those two fallbacks are going to get a bit scared if they go too far up, they're clearly ordered too because they've got nothing in mind them because they're not very good and they're not going to be able to recover. Opposition teams know where the balls go into, they know that it's just very predictable patterns of play now, get the ball out to Kebai who might hopefully advance a little bit, he's going to look for Zaha or he's going to look for lassie, one of them is going to try and fashion something out of nothing and hope they can beat two men, there's no sort of guile in the team at the moment, and maybe it takes the return of punch and I don't know, maybe it takes somebody who can play properly at number ten, I don't know equally that might change the whole system. It might have been different, there's a lot of palace fans, if Wiccan was playing up front it might have been different because he would have played up against one of the two centrebacks or he would have, because he's far more mobile than anybody or he may at least have taken one of the centrebacks into midfield or outside of the side because he would have at least have given him some problems because that is why it was so immobile. But the other thing is how many times I have to say this, I'll say every single point of that okay, how many times people tweet me, we talk about their energy in midfield Leicester, we've got boating, we know how good boating is, why are we not giving boating a try? I know why, we know how fit he is, we know how mobile he is, why not give him a try because that was the biggest, it was buzzing around us in midfield, why not try these options because we're so limited, like you say, plan A is not working, plan B is not that much different to plan A, there is no plan C, give it, try something different. You can't play an expansive system with the likes of Jen Nacken and Leddy and at least with Baratin he would have more mobility, at least not quite as ridiculous as it sometimes does in that slightly more open and slightly wider system that Leddy and Jen Nacken sometimes do. It's the same theory as the reason he should have played Julian in the Liverpool game as we talked about before, if Julian had made that mistake, the crowd wouldn't have got on his back. If you've got boating in midfield, no one's ever going to have a go at him, they're not going to have a go at him, they're going to applaud whatever he does and he's going to bring an energy into it, it's just like, Lee bringing energy into it, it's just like he tries things, try the Lee experiment, it goes well that's not worked, instead of going well let's try it with other players, we're Emily, it's just like what he's not working on. And yet he persists with Swar and Kelly must sit on that finish thinking, what do I have to do? Because it's mystifying why Swar worked, that first half displayed from Swar 8. Although do we think, the fact that he did take a moment half of time and brought Kelly on might be an admission that he's thinking, all right I do have to change this in future games, I do have to give Kelly more. We've known that, and I still think Pargis is a good manager, and I still want it to stay managed, but we've known that for three or four games, we saw that the writing was on the wall at Reading, so why does it need 45 minutes of that before Pargis goes, I'm not getting this right? And you know, the fact that he replaced both left side of midfield players is that's not just getting it slightly wrong, it's completely cocking out. Ward as well, I know he's sort of, it's not the done thing to criticise Joe Ward is it, but he's struggling in the moment, he's the most overrated player that had in the last two decades. No, I disagree with that, I think I actually think he's a very good player, and I think he's been a very good player, I know you're being deliberately provocative, but I do disagree with that, as I do think, I think he's a proper, genuine, Premier League quality defence. Just try it at the moment, there's something wrong at the moment, it's clearly so in the same way there was with Punchin, he's a really good player, but we knew for that three or four weeks before he was injured, there was something wrong with Punchin, and it's the same reward, he's just not, he used to have a lot of energy, he used to get up and down that quite, and he just, he seems to have lost, either he's not properly fit or he's lost the wheel to go. His confidence seems to have drained a bit, isn't it? That's the problem with the whole back four, that is the issue with the whole back four to be perfectly honest. Is there a problem with Harder at the moment as well, because those programme notes, he was spiky after the game again, spiky after the four, do we think he might be unraveling a little bit under the pressure? I think he is, he's one of these managers, he rides the crest of a wave when the luck is going for him and doesn't really play in a cautious manner, that means that he won't always be able to ride that crest of the luck, but equally he doesn't mitigate against the luck going against him by playing in a slightly more cautious manner when he has to, and because of that he ends up basically looking like he's utterly down in the dumps when it does start going against him, and it's, you know, bipod is the wrong probably term for it, but like certainly he goes from one extreme in terms of how he reacts to the wind on the good runs to how he reacts to the losses, perhaps, yeah, maybe in that way he's entirely fitting to be manager, frankly, but I mean, he, you know, the one thing that you'd be saying about his role, and certainly I don't ascribe to a lot of the theories that you get about managers generally, the one thing he should be doing at the moment is just saying to his look, the luck is running against you, we're not deserving some of the results that we're getting, and we haven't on this run deserved all of the results that we've got, you just need to keep your heads on the game, just, you know, keep focused, stop worrying about it too much, eventually it will leave itself out, but instead he seems to get like just into this slightly fanatical, almost, depression about what's going on, and as you say it becomes spiky at pundits and at sort of TV people and in interviews and in his sort of program notes, and it just makes it entirely frustrating to have to listen to it, you've got the demeanour at the moment of somebody who's accidentally clicked on the BBC website and seen the lead table for the first time, because until the Liverpool game it was kind of like they hadn't realised what was going on, and it's since the Liverpool game, and you can understand, and again, I think, you know, Sky do it, the BBC do it deliberately, they love shoving the camera and the microphone in the front of a manager who's just lost on the really controversial circumstances, so I actually don't blame him for that, the program notes I just thought were just ill advised, and he's just, he just got the demeanour of somebody who realises that actually, there aren't that many points between us and going down and that, and that, I think, yeah, you looked at our points, well, we're five, well, five points above Norwich, seven points above the goal differences, right, it's eight, and it's still, and you know, part of you in the stand again, we'll get two wins before the semifinals that'll be relaxing, so we'll never look at the games we're playing, because I wouldn't be convinced that we'd be in Norwich at the moment at home, because the fact is that our home was, I think it's the first time, only the second time ever we've lost six games on the trot, at home, and that's six, and again, it comes down at this conversation, and I'm not arguing that we should set them out, so I don't want to set them out, but I still don't understand why, any other club in the Premier League, people will be going, well, I'd set the manager shortly, even if you've just lost six games at home, and the rest of your season at home has been pretty poor as well, when you haven't won in fourteen games, when you're the only team in England that hasn't won in 2016, and of course all the circumstances, and the fact is, I know there are Palace fans going, well, let's do it properly, let's not win a game for the rest of the season, but yeah, because that's sort of thing Palace will do, but yeah, when it's great, you study the Paulson's people go, "Ah, would you select Palace to win a way?" I asked them, and it would, but I'm not entirely sure that's going to happen. Can I offer that? I think we'll pick up a couple of points, but I just think Christ, that is a draw against Newcastle and something, I mean, I just think, because they've all, they've still got, Norwich has still got Sunderland and Newcastle to play, and you can't imagine it's not getting eight points, or two points, in which should be enough, but something's, there's got to be some drastic surgery over the, over the summer, there has to be. Can I, the thing is the cut runners has, it's been a massive sticking plaster on the, on the problem, but it's, it's only now, the club seems to have realized that there's a, an issue, and now, and now, Alex, Neil, Norwich has started playing mind games, they're all, they're right, they're right in it. Well, now it's like, you know, listen to any pop, football podcasts now, I'll read articles, people are talking about Palace's relegation, serious relegation. Some people, well, the book is on, and it is, I mean, I think most people, I think logic would say, and I've done a lot of research, you know, if I've still got my paper in my pocket, logic would say is, is Villera down, and it's two out of that next three, but it's, it's been done before, and it's, there was a study that said about five percent, four percent chance of going down, so people who know that sort of thing. Yeah, we, we've got, there is, it's no point to know we've got a chance of going down now, we have, but so have Watford still, technically, and Swansea, and yeah, West Brom, if you like. Can I offer a theory as to why things might be going badly, which I saw on one of the message boards? Someone has put, I went and named them, I thought it was very funny, is pollution making Palace's performance worse at home? Research in the Bundesliga have found that the number of parts of the football that makes, when pollution is higher around the ground, it's less passes. If you look at the pollution map of London, you'll see that it is highest in Croydon than anywhere else. Well, also, yeah, because we've got the dirt chicken place next door that does, there's a lot of beautifully smelling smoke, I'd say, it's a nice smelling smoke, but it is, so maybe we never know, but that's, there's, there's something, it's, we can't, the fact that we can't grind up, that's the worrying thing, and I couldn't be more pleased that Pughless is not our manager, but we would have picked up three more points this season, just by getting draws from games, yeah, the Bournemouth game, we wouldn't have lost that Bournemouth game, the Liverpool game, and the fact is as well, the worrying thing is that the atmosphere wasn't brilliant on Saturday. It's not being for a while, there was soon as less to score, that was it, I've just think every Palace fan in the ground knew what was going to happen, and that's not been the case in the past. There was a report in the evening standard I saw today was saying Palace are sleepwalking to relegation, is that a fair way of putting it? I think that's a bit harsh, it feels more like sort of stumbling in the dark, when actually sleepwalking, isn't it? Well, we're not sure what a difference to stumbling in, well, yeah, you could not sleep, yeah, but, well, I don't think we're going to get relegated, but I think, we've talked about this over and over again, I think the transfer window indicated a level of complacency without a doubt, and the fact is as well, we all talked about velocity coming back, how many points we got since velocity come back, one? Yeah, so we need new silver bullet. Well, that's the fact we haven't got, we've got Wickham now, everyone's going to be fine with Wickham comes back, but it's just not happening, it's just not, and then you do start to wonder how many more games do we have to lose before somebody says, hang on, is David Moyes available? I don't know, I just don't, I think, sleepwalking is not, there is an element, I think, I think there is an element of complacency at the club without a doubt, I think there is an element of, yeah, of course we'll get another win or another two wins, or, you know, us will win four at the last five, and logic indicates that we won't, that's the worry, if it's especially at home, does that home record is fatal, and the worst it gets, the more clear, nor it's aren't going to be scary coming to the fullest part. Or if they're not, don't think anyone is at the moment. And why would you be on a home for? Yeah, and we're tentative at home at best, so. So should Andy, should part of being under more, should his job be under more pressure, or is he being saved by a different cover? I think there are already starting to be some reports in the media about the security of his job, I've seen a few, albeit that there haven't been a huge amount, there's still been a few. Certainly, I think if you look at consensus amongst palace fans, which there is never any off, but there's still a fair groundsward side of opinion who thinks that part of you should now already go, and who even on the slightly more objective fringes are starting to really, really question what he's doing. So, what do you guys think? It's a difficult one, because I think that we have at times in this run been the victim of bad luck and of some bad refereeing decisions, and I don't tend to agree with people who make managers out to be messiahs who are responsible for everything to do with the football club and everything to do. There are results, there are far too many variables involved in a football match for that to be the case. However, he is making some very strange decisions, and he's making some strange tactical decisions. He's making some very strange in-game decisions, and he is clearly not making the most of some of the tools that he has at his disposal in terms of the squad that's there. Would I sack him? Probably not, because the new manager bounces statistically not a thing. We think that he is a thing, but teams tend to sack their managers just before the regression to the leading thing ends up happening. There's a five of them. Two people use that phrase in the force and zones. People that would never have dreamt to be using it. Thank you very much. The FYP hip stuff. I tend to think it doesn't, would it help us a huge amount at this stage of season? Probably not, but is there strategic rationale for us in the summer having a look and saying is he the right guy to be at the helm to re-mold that squad? Because there's a fair element of that squad that's now at the age that it needs to start thinking about succession planning the club. Is he the right guy to be in charge of that rebuilding job? I don't know the answer to that. Several people have asked me in person on Twitter whether I still think hydrogen should be had manager for the next five years, which is what I said earlier in the season. And it's slightly tricky for me because people think I'm associated with the club and therefore not able to give a firm opinion while I'm worried ever. But just before Christmas, we were worried that we might lose Pargy because England would be after him as manager. And he was the third best manager in the country in that calendar year with Newcastle one party. Then mainly with Palace, obviously. And we're all talking about what a good manager he was and how rosy the future was. So he's not become, having said that, agreeing totally with what Andy says. And the fact is that if that continuity, if keeping Pargy jeopardises our place in the Premier League, which at the moment I think it might do, then I would see the logic of going if David Moyes is available. I don't know what I wouldn't want us to do is what Newcastle have done, which is to get beneath as in giving him a break clause in his contracts. And so give him no real motivation or component. Because frankly, even if Newcastle stay up, I don't think it is. We'll stay there as manager. So you'll have to look at who the people are that are available and all the people that are talking about Steve Coppell and Doogie Freeman. And it's like, I was amazed how many people want to talk about Doogie Freeman and saying they hope that Forrest has sacked him because he wanted to come back to us. And it's like, unless the question is, which money grabbing fucker do you want to manage your club? Which money grabbing, I'll say that again for your editing purposes. Unless the question is, which money grabbing radio can manage as you want back, then the answer is not Doogie Freeman. And God love him, the answer is not Steve Coppell. Chris Coleman, there's rumours of Chris Coleman. But why would Chris Coleman come to play? Do you have to look around at who you're going to get? And the fact is, if we stay up, then I think Pargy will have had the shot across the bowels that he needs. And the fact is, again, with the money that we need to spend to get players in, and we know that he's completely in charge of transfers, the squad needs a massive overhaul, but not just in personnel. But as a street, he says, in terms of different ways of playing, the homeform needs a massive... That homeform's got to be rectified because we're struggling to sell season tickets together. Season tickets as a ground or a hall. And the Cup Run has covered up a lot of things. The homeform is just miserable now. It's like the old days of Trere Francis, or Warnock, or Doogie Freeman. You don't really want to leave the pub anymore, because it's not... And again, you don't mind if you're in closely fought contests that you lose, like Liverpool game. At least we had the satisfaction of being a better team for 70 minutes, and it all went pear-shaped. We weren't in the game from the start against Leicester. We weren't in pretty much against Bournemouth, we weren't in the game. It's like that's not... That's not good enough. No, I don't think we should set Pigeon. I don't think they will. And I think even if the worst comes to the worst and which I don't think will go down, I think if we were, I think they would keep Pigeon on to get us back up again, like West Ham. But something's got to be done. And to come back to that thing about sleepwalking, there is definitely an element of that, from the management, from the owners, even from the fans. At the moment, the atmosphere is over a team that are in 9th or 10th place that are waiting for the season to end. It's more serious than that. We've got a really difficult next game against West Ham. And then suddenly everyone's talking about the Norwich game in a six-pointer, because Norwich is playing Newcastle. You already know what results best though. I don't think Pigeon is going to be our manager for the next five years again. But then the other thing is who's going to come in? I think Pigeon is almost... His reputation has been really tarnished by this, because this feels different. Now, when Newcastle finished fifth one season, then whatever it was, 17th next season, they did still pick up the odd good result here and there. And also everyone knew that Pigeon was working with one hand tied behind his back at Newcastle. They knew that the management structure was almost impossible to work. If they knew that they weren't his players coming in, he hasn't got that excuse anymore. He's in charge of everything. So it's really damaging his reputation. There's no one talking about him being England manager now. For me there's two discrete sort of considerations here. The first one in the separate as in separate not as in London. Okay. Thanks. It's got two meanings built differently. Well, that's how I was talking about the discrete stuff that James David gets up to on a Friday night. That's different to the... Exactly, so they're two separate considerations here for me. The one is in the short term. I think the whole role of the manager tends to be sometimes eroding clubs tend to be the function of their players and who they've gotten this call at any one time. But the big variable is if the manager has lost the confidence of his players to such an extent, they start playing in a manner that is almost contradicting to the interests of the club, losing the dressing room they sometimes call it. And in the short term, if a manager has lost the dressing room, air quotes, then it is entirely prudent to get rid of him because if it's going to help with the harmony of that group to get rid of that particular figure... Nothing else happened to you. I don't know. I'm not moving off to... I don't think it has from what I can gather, even from watching the way they play. There's no lack of commitment or effort. It's just channeled in the wrong direction. And there's no indication to be fair from anyone at the club that that. And in the past, it's been easy to pick up those vibes. So there's no sense. I think the players feel that they've been hard done by and luck hasn't gone their way. And they've certainly behind him, I think. And that would be the short term consideration for me. And that's why I think it would be, and as long as all of the sound things that are coming out from the club and everything that Kevin has heard is accurate and all that sort of stuff, then it seems to me there's very little to be gained by getting rid of him. However, the second consideration, which is the long-term consideration, is he the right man to oversee an overhaul in that squad and a man who has a strategic vision for how he wants to take that squad forward and how he wants that club to play from top to bottom. And maybe he's not the right man for that. We talk about him having a hand behind his back at new goals, but in some ways it helped him. He had someone in car who was able to bring in these fantastic players and hand them on and plates him and who was able to work within certain confines and say, "These are the players you've got coming in. Now think about how you're going to work them into a system rather than being given a bit more leeway to say, "Right, I'm going to say who I want to come in. I'm going to build the system around a slightly more amorphous vision of what I've got here." Well, his argument would be about the car players. The same as Steve McLaren's argument about the car players, is that for every cabaret he bought in. He bought six or seven in just sat on the bench and not justified the money because they went along this French-speaking route. But what you say is really interesting about not knowing how important the manager is. And that, I think, in continental clubs, that's a very good point because they all work within a different structure. But when you've got a manager like Parjou, who insists that he's in, as Poulis does, that he's in charge of everything, Poulis won't work with a director of football, he's in charge of the whole kit and caboodle. And Parjou, we've all heard him at the Player of the Year thing last year talking about how brilliant it was to come to the Palace and demanding that he's in charge of everything. When you insist that you're in charge of everything, then it stops at your door, basically, then you are the one that's responsible for the whole club, for the way things are working. Well, you're the one who's accountable for it, even if it's not something that's your fault or that it's your responsibility when it goes, well, it's going to fall on your head. Because as you said before, when you've got a manager like Parjou, so we'll undertake the credit even when it's possibly not because of something he's done. But when he's willing to take the credit, when things go, well, he's got to stand up and take the blame. And the fact is he's not good at taking it on the chin, he's not good at saying, like you say, Lester has been lucky, referee's been poor, finishing hasn't been this, that, and the other. And it's like the one thing he's never said is, we need to ever think about this, things are not going, well, I need to look at me and work out what's, and you can't sometimes as a fan, that's all you want to hear. You want someone to go, actually, it's not been good, is it? And we're trying to work out why, and we're only like, we'll get the little break that we need, because we all think we need a little break. And that's all the manager has to say. There's enough to stop. Why don't you just say that, because the pod needs a little break. Right now, so we're going to end, whoa, he's getting better and better, isn't he? We're going to end part one right there, in part two, we've got, I've peed on my piece. Slick it in the barber pat, Suarez, boom. Absolutely, Pete, pod's over, pod's over, pod's over, pod's over for the season. No, in part two, we've got questions from our listeners, so join us in a bit. Welcome back to this week's five-year plan, pod, pod, 174, sponsored by vector printing, for all your printing embroidery needs, go to vector.co.uk, that's vector weather. Okay. And JCIS, the global research and brand consultancy from South London, visit JC-IS.com. I will. It's question time. Before I've got a question, which number pod is this? 174. Where were we in the league for pod number one? Do you remember? Oh, no, it would have been under George Bird. No, that's not prior. Pod number one was recorded away at Nottingham Forest, I think under Warnock. Chef Kekuki scored. I think it was the post-play-off season, so I think it was the season where we went sort of super average under Warnock. 2008, rough 2008 or something? 2009. Oh, it's far back. Yeah, it was. Oh, well. Yeah, well. Yeah, we didn't do many. It was only in a lot of years, it started doing regular ones. And as a result, we've got a lot of regular questions. In fact, this week we've been fired tonight, isn't it? Yeah, well, you know. And we've had a lot. I've actually picked out loads. We're not going to get through them all, so I apologise. Somebody asked me in the portions' arms and something. He said, "Do you know when he says he has a lot of questions?" Does he have a lot of questions? Does he just breathe out the first three? We've seriously had... I've got it down to 35 questions. That's a lover of good, right? But we're not going to get struck, but we're not going to get struck by it. Literally, it's going to be struck at the time. It's going to be struck at the time. OK, and the first one comes from Oliver Moss. Oh, Oliver. And Oliver says, "My lucky Bloody Mary before FA Cup game's ritual seems to be working. Should I risk it for a league game?" That's a fantastically bourgeois. I like Kevin Bill with those ones. Yes, I think it's an interesting point, whether the luck and the superstition crosses between competitions. But, mate, I'm trying everything at the end of it. I'm seriously, I'm putting programs in different pockets. I'm sitting in different carriages with trains in a place that I honestly... So, yes, give it a go, anything. We never know what might change a lot. I agree, I agree. And also, the fact is, you'll probably enjoy the game a little bit more. Yeah. But, well done for every lucky Bloody Mary. Don't ask for one of the Porsche's arms. You'll get a strange look. Yeah, you'll get shut down. OK, Phil Walsh. Hi, Phil. He says, "Has the, quote, palace won't go down thinking from outside the club, put in the divergent pressure on the team and contributed to the win the throne?" I think we've been complacent. That's a very... Do you think we've been complacent? No doubt, we talked about that in the first half, but that's... Oh, I forgot already. That's... I don't blame you. That's... Actually, that's a really good question, whether that constant refrain from pundits and papers that we're fine, we're safe. Because it's only literally in the last week that people have started to talk about us, and that makes... Yeah, well, that's only because Norwich won. We're exploring, to be honest. If they hadn't, I think people would still be saying... Yeah, we're perfectly safe, as we probably are. But that's... That may have edited a couple of places without a doubt, because the players do... We know that they say they don't read papers or whatever, but they all watch much of the day. Hard to ignore it, isn't it? They all watch much of the day. They all watch Chris Camaro on a Sunday morning. So if they are going, "Oh, yeah, we're fine." It'll be all right. I think it's inevitable, frankly, that some external perceptions will bleed through. I mean, they're not going to be going on the BBS for example, because it's sort of a lunatic, but they might be, you know, eventually by sort of powers of osmosis. We can't now promote the poll on the BBS, so thanks. Well, I'm one of those lunatic, so I've got nothing to say about it. Does the view of Andy Street not necessarily over the rest of the podcast? Well, frankly, if they want to see me, they're welcome to get in and go. Other message boards are available. They can't afford to sue you, you know, a lot of good. But I would be very surprised if these guys, you know, insulate themselves and the squad insulates itself and party insulates itself from all external forms of media and opinion and punditry. Well, no, they'll do stuff like, you know, if they've got even a passing external interest in football or they want to watch the other game go down, they'll hear that sort of punditry before and after Super Sunday or Sunday or Sunday. Yeah, they do watch those things. When I know footballers, they don't get involved. They don't tend to read papers. They read their, their player scores in the papers. Yeah, but they don't listen. They don't listen to podcasts. They don't read fanzines. They don't tend to read them. I know, but they don't. But they do watch. They do watch much of the day and they do watch goals on Sunday. And of course there is that. But also the other thing is, well, it helps for the one of the better word with complacency is that we haven't been getting, we haven't been getting back or outplayed. You know, and the goal difference is still staying remarkably healthy because we've only been losing by the odd goal. And the performance is, there's been something pretty, well, even apart from Lester probably. But there's been, well, that was a one off. That probably started the rock. But there's been encouragement in most performances. But yeah, actually, I think that's a really good question. Well, following on from that, I think there's an element of it. Yeah, I think he's right. Yeah, that had occurred to me before but I think. Well, this one, this question. Well, from Tom Flahati. Hi, Tom. It says, is your Irish, you're supposed to be able to pronounce Flahati properly? Flahati. I'm going to violin next week. Erm, what are you doing? Er, carry, can't carry. Dingle Bay. Cool, carry. Oh, that's beautiful. Dingle Bay. Yeah, it's very nice. You're doing a gig. No. It said Christ. And really? Oh, they ripped you from lin to lin. Well, yeah, probably would. Well, until they find out my last name is Daley, then they might be on my side. That's sort of like a bit of women's school comedy over there. Well, there you go. I am available for gigs. Erm, right. This question from Tom is, is Kevin Day going to admit that this slump that will end in Palace's relegation is down to him saying we won't get relegated in December? I, I, Tom, trust me, there's been some terrible things that have happened in my family in the last two or three years. But the one thing that's kept me awake at night is the fact that I said publicly, we wouldn't go down. I know, I know I said it. I don't know. You goaded me into it like an old bear in a, in a bare-baiting, medieval pit, years ago. You poked me with sticks and forged me with that. I, I, trust me, I'm, I'm aware. I'm aware of that, that I said it. And I've been trying to, I've, I've been playing this game with fate ever since, but yeah. But you said it again on this board, you've said it again today. Yeah, but it won't, I'm old enough. Doesn't, well, as Mrs. Day keeps pointing out to me, it won't be more bleedin' for it if we do. There are other factors involved, but I, I do wish I hadn't said it out loud. There are other factors and Nick Shepherd, Oh, Nick has suggested one. He said, Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Oh, actually, actually. - Lots of people attribute that quite to him, but it's never actually been fully, fully proven it. It was actually him who said it. Okay, nevertheless, I don't think it's the attribution of the quote that's the important thing here. It's the, I'm just being glad that by Mrs. Day. I can't be sorry, I can explain to you why. It's the, the actual quote, read out the quote again, because it's important. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Yeah, it's quite good. - It's a good quote, isn't it? - It's a good quote. - It's a good quote. - It's a good quote. - It's a good quote, as well. - It's applicable, 177. - Yeah, it, yes. I think that's a very good, a very good point in that we, as Andy articulated so well earlier in the, in this pod that we don't seem to be able to adapt. But you'd think we've got the players to do it, but we don't seem to be able, and the fact is it, unless you can impose in the way that Lester without even, that you can really notice in it, impose their way of playing on you, unless you've got a system that's almost player-proof, that you can play with any, yeah, and let's be fair, and let's come back to it, Lester have had a golden season in that the players and the system have worked. But we haven't got a sort of system. Pulis did, and I hate to say it. Pulis had a system that he imposed on other teams that for the most part worked, and if it didn't, the wheels fell off. - Well, that's why Joel Ward looked good in that system. That's why Chen Mac did, that's why Ledly did. - Yeah, yeah. - That's why Delain, you look fantastic in that system. You're playing that nice, compact game, it's not going to stretch those players out over big spaces. - Yeah, and the fact is that whether he thinks he's more sophisticated, the party won't even resort to a sort of root one. The amount of times we've said, well, let's miss out in the midfield, then, if the midfield are not that mobile, I'm capable of holding the ball, let's take a deep breath and go. - He's desperate to sort of stick to his ethos. - Yeah, he is, but even so, even now, there's another hang-up for the Pew this year, which is that Delain-E 65-yard pass, which is the hang-up, but it's like, well, let's, do you know what, if things aren't going badly, let's resort, let's keep, let's keep adding by or on and put Gail up next to him, just boot it, and just let him try and pick up the pieces, you know, because that's a sort of thing we don't even, and in a way, it's admirable that Paul just still wants to play football, and it's not working, change it, try something different, or try different personnel, you know, there are other, we do have other players at the club that you could try and give these things a go, and we'll forgive that, because you just want to see, and then, because the fact is that, I know there are Palace fans on Saturday, after all fair play to party, we changed it, after, well, yeah, fair play to party, but that was an act of desperation, that wasn't a tactical tweak, that wasn't, you know, other clubs would have been too young up at half time, and then bought somebody on to keep holding that too nearly little, but that was just, that was a manager going Christ out, I really nosed that up, I'm going to have to do something publicly to make, but I think that's a, yes, again, another good question. Well, on that theme, this is a great question, on that theme, we're in question. I don't like that, I feel like we're now being sort of repeatedly, intellectually, outdone by our own listeners. I'm not, I'm beautiful. Have we not always been, no. I mean, there's just grandstanding going on these questions now. No, in fact, all right, if you've annoyed me now, I'll challenge any of our listeners, in the 20 question club quiz. Well, what subjects like history, English, football, we should make that happen. We should just cough that side of human existence, it's not achieved. No, he's close, he doesn't know he's close. Well, JD, doesn't know he's close. He's so, he's not representative. Okay, thanks, here's your question. The next question is from upcarbiradia. Hi, upcar. Hi, upcar. This is so good. He says, on a slightly more popular podcast this week, I'm not sure, this is a sort of thing, it was revealed that part of you took a southern train, and as he reached his stop, he realized he was standing in front of the non-opening doors. He then had to turn tail, or moonwalk, his way off the train. Is this another example of his innate rashness in making decisions? Or should Palace found his people ahead? We have a man here with such confidence in himself. I refuse to laugh at a story played to us from another podcast. That's great. So, it didn't mean he moonwalked off. I don't know. What was he doing on a train? Pargill doesn't get trained. So, last time he saw Pargill on a southern train, except for a publicity stunt, he's going into a packed pub full of so-called Palace fans. I thought it was a great question. It's a good question, but it comes out of nothing. It's a question that's made up. It's like, you might as well have a question saying, "What do you think of the fact that Mount Rushmore are all Chalkon fans?" Are they? No, oh, jeez. So, the fact is that sound in the background is my son laughing, because he thinks JD said that deliberately. All right, he's not the fan he doesn't. I may have done that. Yeah, it is a good question, but I'm not entirely sure that it happened. I enjoyed it as a question. And also, who is his slightly better podcast that he's talking about? No, it isn't as interesting. Well, it could be one of the 117 that are above a single table, but apart from that, see what I'm working with Ed. This question is, what nominated podcast that you'll find? By ourselves. I was sorry I'll be able to talk about it. I've been nominated for the BAFTA Award. Thank you. I have been here. Congratulations. I've been nominated for a BAFTA for Best Pod Carrier. That's my favorite form of congratulations. No, I've been nominated for some of these now. I'm telling everyone, it's not every day. Oh, well done. Well done very much. Congrats. Yeah, thank you. What was your form? Best writer of an entertainment show. It's a new category. For which, shy? For the league of their own. But no one needs to know. No one needs to know. For the BAFTA. Well, frankly, if you've managed to make both Jamie Redknap, James Corden and Freddy Flintoff seem moderately funny, then good job. That's well read. Good job. I'm reading up his little fat pony. That's my job. You know, in a way that far I've had race horses. So you're saying he rides you? No, I'm saying the corner of keeping him happy and comfortable. Okay. But he doesn't deal with adults very well. Okay, the BAFTA is a BAFTA is what I always say. I might need a bigger man or piece. Okay, thinking of something that's a bit more, thinking of something that's a bit more adult in theme, none of that. This question has come from Martin Walsh, Martin. He says, "Can Andy Street explain the legal detail behind the Pulitzer verdict?" Oh, yes, that's interesting. Was it a fair decision? Should we have been more magnanimous? Well, Martin, you get verdicts in criminal trials. This was a civil. Right. But the outcome then. Right. I have to be careful here. I have to be careful to think to go on. And Martin is someone that I know of Twitter, so I'm often. He's very honest. Can I just say, as an outsider, with no legal experience, it did seem that, with Pewley's having to pay costs as well, it's in that Pewley's totally lost, if one of the better legal experiences. So, when you lose in a civil trial of any sort or at the end of civil proceedings. And we took him, we instigated proceedings against him, is that all right? I can't be careful. I have to be very careful. I have to be very careful in this. I would probably infer that it is more likely than not, that Paul is probably with a claim and started those proceedings. And it tends to be the case, if you win in a litigation in many sort, whether it's a sort of football arbitration or whether it's like a high court civil claim, basically the winning party takes home some of their costs. So, I don't take home everything because you'll get sort of capped at a certain level, but you tend to take home some of your costs. In terms of the underlying claim itself, again, I have to be a little bit careful in what I say because I have certain professional obligations, not to say too much about other people's claims and stuff like that. However, there's probably a few basic things people need to bear in mind. The first one is that if you lie to get someone to enter into a contract, that contract can be then set aside further down the line. So, I say to Kevin, "Oh, I'm basically the world's best comedy agent. I could get you a job at the Astoria tomorrow." And you enter into a contract with me because of that. And it actually turns out that by the Astoria, I actually met Norbury Weatherspains. Right, right. I'll still do a kick there. I will do that. You were without doubt still doing a kick there. I didn't pay 10 there. However, I would have made a misrepresentation to you. You would have entered into the contract and you would have then go at that point, go, "Well, that's not very fair. I shouldn't be in that contract with you. You have completely lied about this. I want to get out of the contract." And that's how that area of law works. Was it entirely to do with the bonus payment though? Because again, the legal reporting seemed to be quiet. So, the reports say that he was made to repay the bonus that became due under some form of contractual arrangement. Now, the thing that I would take from what has been reported, again, I don't know exactly what has been decided in that case or why it's been decided, or even how the claims were stated. Right. My guess would be that there's been some form of allegation of misrepresentation. Someone has said that a contract has been entered into or changed or done away with based on a lie. And because of that, the panel who was in charge of the decision should basically rewind things and unwind all of those sets of circumstances that have arisen from that lie to try and get the parties back to the position they were in in the first place. And at that point, they probably will have looked forward and started looking at what bonuses would have arisen, what shouldn't have been parable in certain circumstances and derived the decision from that. So, that's kind of basically what is reported anyway, and what is out there in the press in the various reports. And it seems to be the case that panists have, if you want to take it face value, what's reported in the guidance and what's in the BBC, ended up being repaid that bonus, being repaid a certain amount in respect to damages, and then being paid some of their costs associated with bringing those proceedings. Right, because my understanding is, and again, it's interesting because you assume that in this country you would be able to, that these things would be made public once the decision had been made, that you would find out what the circumstances were. My understanding was it was something to do with the timing of the payment of the bonus, which apparently was, and again, I don't, this is not something I know, this is what I've gleaned, but it's something to do with the timing being brought forward for whatever reason. But also, I do wonder some panist fans, it must have been an element, with hindsight, it must have been an element of that in West Brom's performance against us in the first half. I would imagine that he's probably highly motivated to play well again. From what I can gather, the decision had been made known to the parties before it was made public. So, I'm wondering whether he knew or he guessed by then that he was probably, well, these decisions aren't actually supposed to be made public at all. Oh, really? Because the whole point of the FA's procedures relating to those type of civil claims between parties in football is it's all supposed to be kept in-house and all done under wraps. Basically, I guess for a few reasons, number one, to keep it cheaper, number two, to make it quicker, and number three, so that stuff that might not necessarily want to be leaked out into the public domain doesn't get out into the public domain. So, the whole premise of that rule K procedures, as it's called, is that you're not supposed to have anything published anywhere. And whoever has leaked it to a journalist somewhere is actually potentially in breach of the FA's rules by doing so. So, it shouldn't really be published anywhere, anyway, and if someone really wanted to keep it out of the press, they probably could have gone much off the court. Oh, that's a very interesting story. Well, that's very interesting, possibly only to me, not listeners, but... Because I've heard that so many times. Because I, because I, beyond a very brief factual account on the BBC Sport website, because I just assumed that the next day's papers would be, would be full of it. I thought this is a massive story, surely. I think only one of the tabloids had a very brief and there was nothing, the Guardian had a brief report, but it was, I surely imagine that would be a huge story. Well, there's a reason why Palis won't make a public statement about it. There'll be nothing that will come out of the club, officially and publicly. Pulus, although he was asked about it in the press conference when I can't talk about that, there's a reason he can't talk about it. He's subject to confidentiality provisions. And there's a reason that, you know, with lots of big decisions, and it was certainly the case, it used to be the case with football cases as well, Ian Dowell against Palis, for example, which was the case back in 2002. I know it would have been later, though, up in about 2005, it all used to be done back through the courts back then. So the judgment becomes public and you can sort of pour through the various reasoning, look at the facts in the case, look at what had happened, look at, you know, the fact that Ian Dowell presented certain PowerPoint slides to Charlton that he re-used from his Palis interview, like you can sort of derive all this information from a judgment, because this isn't actually released. You can't actually see the reasoning behind it, which then makes it very difficult to look and say, "Well, they've definitely reached the decision on this basis." It's not done in, well, it was, it will have been done in an arbitration court. Oh, I see. Oh, right. So it's not done in the like court. Lucky the employment tribunal. Similar. Similar. So it was very right of appeal for him. Pugh this in minutes. Oh, glad you asked that. It's almost like you read my article on it. Basically, for arbitrations of that type, you've got very, very limited ground to appeal. You can appeal if basically on what lawyers call jurisdictional points, which is basically if you shouldn't have even had it decided in that form in the first place. So if someone's decided to basically get this FA panel to decide it when it really should have been, I don't know, the high core who relates to it, then you can appeal on that grounds. You can also appeal if there's sort of some severe irregularity or bias in the proceedings themselves. Like if there's something that, if you look back at it on a second look as an independent, an independent, impartial observer went, right, that is absolutely ridiculous. It's very high bar. It's got to be that sort of level of bias or irregularity. You could then challenge it then. But the general rule is, and I've actually tried in practice myself to try and appeal arbitrations. It's very, very difficult to do so, very, very difficult. It's got limited avenues to do so. So if everything that has been published in the press is correct, and it shouldn't have been published in the first place, if it is all correct, they're going to be very limited avenues for recourse for queerness. Good. And also a rare win for Palace in 2016. Very good. So there you go. He's been trying to get in with it. So I started with three mil to the Londoners. Okay. Very good. Okay, last few questions then. Last few questions. John Vince says, "Did you all get these jolly texts from the club sent on Saturday? Do you think the club?" Now, I can forgive it before the match. Before the match. Fine. I've just about got to the stage where I've forgotten about the previous match and how terrible it was. I've probably by that stage started drinking in the portions. Absolutely understandable. When you then watched the match, you're like, "Oh, I hope you really enjoyed today." No, I did not. But they're automated, aren't they? Well, let's stop it. I stopped automating them, and it was a bit of a PR, own goal. And I mean, I don't know who are getting these texts, but it's bad enough that people will tell you about the text you get before and tell you what the weather's going to be like. But that was just, and the fact is, that somebody at the club actually went, "Oh, sorry about that. We'll look into that," because and it does play into the hands of those Palace fans who worry about the corporatisation for one of them. Do you feel the same with the enjoy the game? We get told all the time? A little bit, and I think there is... I don't know whether there's a correlation between the atmosphere with the fans and the creeping corporatisation this season, which you imagine the corporatisation bits that we're only going to get worse. But I think I'm hoping that Steve Parrish is clever enough to realise that that just backfired really. And I know looking at Twitter on Saturday evening, which I don't normally do, that was the biggest argument between Palace fans was about that text, rather than about the performance, because everyone would be accepted the performance wasn't good enough, apart from one or two people saying, "Well, we lost one nil to the champions," and as people going, "Well, you can opt out of the text," but that's neither here nor there. The weather thought that that was appropriate. It's one of those things that needs an apology, or it needs a response, or at least an acknowledgement that it was, and it needs dealing within the in future, basically. Which is, like, an angle? Totally, yeah. There's nothing sinister behind it. It was just a win a bit wrong. You've got to try stuff. It was the wrong thing to do. I'm prepared to be magnanimous about that, and if they give me a free beer to say, "Sorry, I'm prepared to let it go." I think there is a wider debate during the close season about, because it is going to raise itself, and it is part of the balancing out that Steve Parrish has talked about himself, and what you have to do to maintain the place in the Premier League, and to, apparently, expand your business horizons all over the world, while at the same time keeping your foot in Croydon, because that's what we are. It's very hard to do to be both, but that's an example of getting it wrong. Okay, final question for this week is from Otis the Cat. Hi Otis. He says, "I'm just an actual cat." I hope so. Well, he's treated profile as a cat, so let's hope it hits. It must be then. He says, "Look, it's been a long night." He says, "How long will you have to be a cat?" I'll say it, as I said that in real time. I might never change today. He says, Otis says, "How will you guys celebrate when we finally win a league match?" I'm not even gonna be... Well, it'll be my 40th birthday that evening as well, so... You're only 25 now. Let's come back to Tom's question, was it, about me, James? I'm not even gonna begin to make sure I might do if we win a league match, because I'm not gonna have to take the responsibility for it. I just think there will be an enormous set, and I do genuinely think, I think once we... I think it's possible that we might not win, but I think once we do get a win, we'll get another win. And also, if you look at the fixtures as well, the fact is, if we can't get some points out of Everton, Stokes, Southampton, Norwich and Newcastle, then you pretty much deserve whatever is coming to you, really. And you look at Norwich getting unexpected with a point against the city. There are points to be picked up. There's luck to be in, but you just... It's gonna be more my luck than judgement as to worrying thing at the moment. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It comes back to that question about genius. You just think Paul's just gonna keep doing what he's doing, and something that might pay off. It's the same thing possible. Not to see it's not getting the least a couple of points somewhere, but... Street, what are you doing? We could be mathematically safe in three weeks time. Yeah, we could. I know, that's a fair... And hopefully, by the time we get to the Newcastle game, but I really don't want to get to that Norwich game, and that's suddenly everyone's talking about that being... You know, it's hard to see us getting the thing at West Ham, if Norwich beat Newcastle, but then everyone at Norwich beat Newcastle, we're still nine points ahead of them with another game fewer to go, so it's... Well, the next game up is West Ham, and we'll be previewing that, not at the end of this podcast, but in our new extra parts that we're doing, which we'll be released a few days before West Ham, but of course, before that, you've got the international break. So you've got a week without us, until the preview. We're not doing this in this week. No, there's no time this week for in this week. Nothing's happening in this week, though. Nothing's happened. I looked at it, nothing happened in this week, nothing happened in this history. No, too much to talk about with recent Palace games, that's fine. So, that's it for this pod. I mean, there was the Joey Murphy hat trick, I believe in this one. Well... No, it was in the top... Yeah, a lot of the list of top ten Irish players that you did. Oh, did we? Yeah, the club did. Oh, we did. We did, therefore, I pre-did. Did they? Yeah, it was on the top ten Irish players. Yeah. Joey Murphy in there? It was only fourth. It's on my own store. Who's top? Clint and Morrison. Yeah, that one. Clint and I Morrison. It's Danny in a second, yeah. Okay, right. So, at that step of this pod, we'll be back with you for the extra pod previewing the West Ham game. Enjoy the international break, and we'll see you again soon. Goodbye. Bye. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.
Another defeat for Palace, this time to league leaders Leicester City. Jim, Kevin and Andy pick over the bones of the Eagles' 13th league game without a win and discuss whether Alan Pardew's job is on the line. They also answer your questions in an hour (and a bit) of Palace chat.
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