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Visit FedEx.com/one-rate for details. Exclusion supply, valid through January 19, 2025. FedEx One-aid, two-day retail shipping, one-flat-rate. (upbeat rock music) All right, hello listeners, welcome to the Five Year Plan podcast. - Hey! - It was 150. - Wow. - What a landmark we've got to. And to celebrate that, we've got two very special guests. Before we do that, I'm gonna tell you that we got some sponsors, of course. And our sponsors are JC Innovation and Strategy, the Global Research and Brand Consultancy from South London. Visit JC-IS.com. And we've got Vector Printing for all your print and embroidery needs. Go to Vector.co.uk and that's Vector Wither. - Okay, yeah. - There we go, good. - I always really know. - Afterthought was an A. - We love Vector as much as everyone. So we got some special guests, but before we get to them, we're gonna get to our regular get, not that you're not special as well, but your normal guests, Kevin Day. Hello, Rob Sutherland. - Hello. - And Andy Street. - Bye-bye. - And joining us to mark 150 FIP podcasts. We've got kind of becoming a pod regular, now in a way, Steve Frauett. - Hi, hello. - How you doing? - Good, thanks. - And making his pod debut on the FIP. Damien Delaney, hello. - How's it going? - Very good, thank you very much for joining us. Chaps, okay, so we've got a lot to get through because let's start at Palace's Last Game, which is a way it spurs. The end of that three-game run that we looked at that we thought was a bit tricky, with Chelsea Massey in spurs, and ended up in a one-nil defeat. A bit of a flat performance. Let's go to the man that played in the game properly for the first thought. A little bit flat, Damien. I mean, what was the kind of mood in the camper after that? - Yeah, I was one best pleased with the result, knowing that the performance as well. But on the plus side, we wake up the next day, you look back at it. Okay, we didn't play very well, and we only narrowly lost, and realistically yawning the post, and back up, pull the work class, save it in a re-saw. They're your bad days, wait, spurs, and we're only just getting beat, but having said that when you look back, the overall performance wasn't good enough. We understand that. We already spoke good this morning, and we'll do our best put around. - Doesn't it, like it shows how far the club have come, that we've been frustrated against Spurs and Man City recently, to lose those games. And yeah, those are two of the top six teams in the league. - Yeah, absolutely. I mean, not long ago at all, to even be playing them was something we'd look forward to, and to be very narrowly losing, to two very good teams who've both got, both of those teams you've got players who are worth more than our entire squad. You know, we've come a long way quite quickly, and we are, you know, it is a shame that we lost to those two games, and we are, we were hoping to get more points from those games, but on the other hand, they were two tough games. The Man City game, I thought, it was actually a very good performance, and we were very unlucky to lose that. And, you know, I don't think we should get too upset about it. Couple of seasons ago, we hadn't got nine points after about three months. - Well, last season, it took us 12 games to get to a point. We really didn't live before, and that took us to 12 points. So we had 90 points for 11. Season before that, we had seven points after 12 games, so there's much better. But do you think the, the brilliant array record has kind of set artificial expectations for the fans, 'cause now we almost expect players to go away anywhere, attack, and come away with something, it's-- - Listen, I mean, you know, it's fans' expectations are fantastic, and it's great for you guys to do that, but we're-- - No, me, everybody else also. (all laughing) - I'm a chess player. (all laughing) - We tried to deal in reality, you know, and the fact of the matter is, yeah, we were all upset last night, but, you know, today's a new day, we came in, we started afresh. I think when the fixture list came up, you know, the first six games. Realistically, I was after thinking, if you had six, six, seven points, you'd be doing okay, you know, kind of back in when you're thinking, if you're not on the bottom three after those opening games, you know, you've come through that period, and we've come through it with nine points. - What a Chelsea performance, under the result, kind of brought you two games anyway, 'cause I think most of us thought three points out of those three games would have been all right. - No, if we'd drawn those three games, absolutely, if you'd drawn those three games, if we'd drawn every game so far this season, we'd have less points than we got, so-- - Yeah, listen, let's find nine out of six, and please, we'd be taking six blocks of six, and the first six, it's quite with nine. You know, even if we'd draw on Sunday, maybe we'd have had 10, that would have been fantastic, but we didn't, but it's fine. Like you said, it's behind us, and it's not what we can do over it, and it's not until the next box of six. - Yeah, I mean, the Spurs game was interesting, 'cause there was quite a lot of new players in the Spurs team, the latter scored some young men. Was it like kind of getting something like that, 'cause he was very speedy, was very-- - Yeah, he's quite intelligent, he's a good player, and Chadly played pretty well too, and Harry Kane's a handful, although you know, he's probably getting a lot of Christmas, not scoring, but he is, you know, his work rate is phenomenal, and he needs a threat, and he runs him behind, which is difficult, and he's always on the move, so they're a good side, very, very good side, and I just think they just got the upper hand in a lot of areas of the pitch, and then you're on the back foot, and you're away from home, so it's difficult, but we hung in there, and, you know, we'd asked one, Neil, you know, Alex, so I think we'd be forced to say that maybe he should have done better with it, and he'd eat to that afterwards, so, you know, if Alex saves out of my finish, you know, Neil, and then it's a great day for us, but fine margins, and unfortunately, we just came up the wrong side, and I don't know. - If I can throw in a stat, Alex McCarthy, he has made the second most number of saves in the Premier League this season. - That's just the centre-backs in front of him, who are very good. (laughter) - Well, it's kind of, if I can throw in an opinion, that's kind of, I mean, that's brilliant, but if he's gonna make a mistake a game, and it costs us a gold, it doesn't matter how many saves he makes, does it? - True, but then the thing about being a goalkeeper is your mistakes are magnified, because nine times that are intended to gold, you know? - Every outfield player makes fun of them. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm playing devil's answer, but it's easy to make those stats, but everyone talks about us being in the high level at the Premier League, and that one mistake is what's gonna be remembered. - Of course, it's never fine margins. - He'll know them, so, I mean, playing against Harry Kane must be nice to come up against a gentleman centre-forward, compared to Costa, for example, he's a different kind of official, isn't he? - Yeah, he's a reasonable man. (audience laughing) - He's putting him away, Lee, too, honestly. - He didn't swear, he didn't Spanish that. - No, he didn't, no, he didn't. Remember all my Spanish swear, I was when I was a kid. (audience laughing) - Well, it must've been, 'cause the match of the day picked up on you and Costa as one of the highlights of that Chelsea game, many highlights, but it was fascinating to watch their analysis of it, because we don't normally see close-up what's going on in there. I mean, it's like a rugby scrum, isn't it, when they just send them back against a player like that, it doesn't look like he's as direct as what he is and he plays up against you. He's not like an aware of drifts and roams and looks like a pocket of space. He looks playing up against you. So you really are in each other's pockets for 90 minutes. - Costa was definitely in your pocket, wasn't he? - That was hard. (audience laughing) In each other, you kind of do that close to it, but-- - But you look like you're enjoying it, though, is that? - Yeah, of course, yeah. I mean, when, I think about Diego, he probably had a realization that I grew up in League Two, you know, and believe me, that's a proper ad window, man, especially 12, 13 years ago. You know, when I was a 20-year-old kid against real horrible men, really, honestly, and that's kind of where I was brought up. So dealing with people like Costa is nothing new for me. I've kind of grew up on that, so that's kind of my bread and butter, so to speak. So it didn't really worry me, to be honest, yeah. - So it was one of your favorite personal performances? - Um, no, there's some gains, but like, when you win, obviously, then that performance gets magnified, but I think I've had, you know, some really good days in a pallet shirt, but when you don't get beat, you know, or you don't win, so you get beat, then, you know, maybe it doesn't show up as much, but it was a good day, just for the result, really, you know, and just sort of had a club with Comme that we can go to Chelsea, you were champions, and an only dig in and flue go in, but I thought we probably deserved that. - You're here, Damien, talking about playing in lead two, and now he's doing a really good job in the Premier League. He makes you wonder why more clubs don't look, 'cause the instinct seems to be for promoter clubs, in particular, to look for foreign players, rather than to look for players that are as good, that are playing in the lead. - You know, you look at the success pallets have had, and half of our players have been free transfers, all very, very small fees from the lower league work, and call the championship the leg in your case, but, you know, Yannick was playing for Plymouth, wasn't he, and he said, "Barn it!" Before that, it was easy, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And Glenn was playing for a minor club in, I don't know where that is. - Rockstar, Rockstar. - Comme, Comme. - I'm thinking of the people in the South of England, yeah. - The place where the rugby ground is where they play. - That's absolutely, yeah, yeah. - The happy clappers, and who else have we had? I mean, there were lots of our players. I mean, several times last season in the Premier League, the end of last season, we had seven players who'd played in the championship. - But has that been one of the reasons, then, that this team has progressed so well? - I think it's definitely the dangerous to do, like, for example, whatford have done, it seems to be the right, but to completely change your team. And I think we've always had palaces. We've got a spine, you know, you've got Mille, you've got Julian, you've got your demo, we've got Glenn, and Patty McCarthy, we've had really solid characters in the dressing room. And, you know, you can bring in some superstar players who, you know, are all fantastic players, but I don't think you wanna change it too much, too quickly. Obviously, you change it eventually, little by little. - But it's just in terms of them not getting a chance out of a club, I mean, it seems to be changing a little bit this year, we're born with sticking with most of their team, but the instinct seems to be that people don't take those out of the way. - I think it's a point, you get people that have a point to prove, you know, 'cause I mean, look, Yannick was released by the rest of the city, you know, finished up with Ipswich, Mille came in from Turkey, Mozart before he was in a watchdale, played for an amateur team in North Carolina, he went up there for six months, you know, so you get a lot of people, when you get that kind of amalgamation of players would so much to prove the energy that creates, to propel everything forward is really what helped and I had a similar situation when I left Leicester City when I was young and I played for Hull, you know, Peter Taylor was the manager at Hull at the time, we were like in the Division III and he signed a load of like 21, 22 year old kids who were like released from Premier League clubs and then you know, it was like seven players coming in and we all had chips on our shoulder, you know, we all really did feel that we were had done by him and I think when that energy is kind of like managed to point in the right direction it could be pretty forceful and I think it was similar at Palace when we all came in, I think we all have pretty big chips on it, we still do, so. (all laughing) - How easy is it to keep that kind of unity or that chemistry going, 'cause it must be a card so they're balancing out for the manager, isn't it? - Yeah, that's the management's job really, you know, but the board and Steve, Broton, Steve Parrish, he's done really, really well in bringing in the right characters, you know, the right people that fit into the philosophy of the football club and what this football club demands and I think every player that's signed within one or two days realizes oh, there's these things different here, you know, there's an expectancy and I think what's really, really good about it is players that don't buy into it just they don't ask, you know, and I think that the, it's almost like the cool kids do this and joining if you want to be part of that and I think everybody joins in to do that and people that don't want to do it, they just get cast aside, you know. - But it is a cliche in football, isn't it? Like, oh, they're a good bunch of lads, they're a good unit, but I guess Palace are a proof of that, that is true, like, I know. - Yeah, I mean, listen, there's loads of good units out there but we genuinely, we do actually socialize together and off a lot of the players, you know, we have group chats going on with things and now what's happened, you know, there's 12 people on that and they've never got published, I think we've all been lost. (laughing) - Did you find when you stepped up to the Premier League that it was, like, at what point did you realize, I mean, did you realize that there was a step up? Was it a case of kind of going into training and just doing what you normally did? Or was it a case of playing a couple of games and being like, now we know what we're doing? - No, for me, like, the way I looked at it and the way I still couldn't look at it is I deserve to be there more than anyone 'cause I've earned it. I think a lot of people get bought on the providers that they've got potential, that they've got this, that they've come from another league and I was thinking, well, you've been giving me free chance, even, you know, I've been promoted out of every division. So if you're telling me that I don't belong here with no chance of I shot up, I was just like, look, you're on it, I just thought, I deserve it, I was bought any of you people and that's just the way I still look at it, you know? - Didn't say it, didn't say it out loud, don't you? - No, of course not, you never say that. No, I'm not talking on my own teammates 'cause they're all just similar, but you know, when you look at the opposition that you're playing against, you're like, yeah, you guys are very good players, but you haven't been to Lincoln away on the Tuesday night and dug in and got a meal no, you know, you haven't done some of the, you know, washing your own kit when I was at home and not having a training ground and, you know, washing your own boots and even know when, you know, Adidas send you, like whatever you want because it's such a high profile league, I remember going into J.J.B. by my boots when I was a whole professional footballer, I mean, you know, and that was how it was and I'll never forget that and that's why when I am here, I enjoy every minute of it because-- - So that's basically the chip on your shoulder in some ways that you talk about, that kind of, that is the thing that drives you, it's almost the memories of dealing with that as well? - Oh, not really, because I wouldn't change those memories for the world, I think they're all part of what brings you to where you are in your career, but I'm never gonna have an inferiority complex against anyone or anywhere they go in because, like I said, you know, I've been promoted to every division and never been bought up a division. I've had to, like, work to get out of it or work to get out of every division, which ain't easy and it took about 12 years. - I suppose the managers are similar, so I mean, it's interesting, there's a new book that's come out with Alan Pargy's interviews and that. He talks quite fondly about his days when he was still working as a glazier and playing part-time football, that he, the journey he's been on for a lot of a bit, but it makes him feel the same way that he's earned every, every penny that he, he's worth every penny that he earns, but he's as good as anybody else, despite the fact that he's come from his background, that other managers might see as a bit too humble for the Premier League, so it's all-- - He didn't, he didn't make it as a professional footballer till he was 26, I mean, he joined Palace having been a dullage and a white level, all over the world who weren't in the league at the time, somewhere else, and, you know, they used to read the team sheets out at Silveston, he could go number eight, Pargy, and he could boot for whatever number he was. You know, it was tough for him, and he, that was a real school of hard knocks around, but then he became a bit of a hero eventually, and-- - Well, every Steve Copple, I mean, every second programme over Steve Copple saying, stop booing him, I wouldn't pick him if he wasn't a really good player, but he does a job that you don't, you can't necessarily see his football fans, but, so it wouldn't, dream of asking you, well, as Pargy says, in private, but in public, he always seems to say the right thing about a player, thought what he said after the Tottenham game, and he said, this is a really good team, I know good teams, and this is a really good team, they just need to tighten up in various bits. I mean, that's a really good way of publicly, acknowledging that it wasn't a good result, but praising you, which I guess is what footballers want to hear in public, at least, isn't it? I don't know, I don't really read anything to be honest with you, so I don't really, I don't know what he said after it, but I don't listen to him. - Well, he does what he always does, he never criticises individual players, and he says, it wasn't our best performance, but it's our recognising good team, and I see it, and this is a good team. - Yeah. - They just say what, as good as they could be today, but it's like, so he never lays into the players, never lays into the team, but I think it's good for the fans to get, because we've had other managers in quite recent times whose first attitude is to deflect criticism from them by having to go to the players and the team, but as a fan, you don't want to see that happen, you want the manager in public, I'm sure Steve agrees, you want the manager in public to pick on the positives, rather than... - Managing expectations really, isn't it, as well? It's, it's, because I think for fans, it was probably frustrating looking at the Warnock time where he would, every time, even when we lost, I'm having a great time, this is a wonderful, wonderful adventure for me, you know, it just got, you got the kind of wrong impression with him, and then Pargy comes in, and again, I think he knows how to manage the fans' expectations in a way that he understands how to communicate with us, and I'm sure he probably does, does with players, as well, you know, he's not a, he's not an idiot, and so he, the stuff that he comes in. - He's a smart guy, and he's a very experienced manager, and he's in the right place, you know, he loves Palace, it's, it's a... - Having said that, I won't... - After interviewing him when he was in a good mood at the player of the year, do, I wouldn't like to interview him when he was in a bad mood. - We all enjoyed that. - He's brought it up every single part. - What have, like Damien, from a players' point of view, what has Alan done, and Tony Pudas, I guess, to an extent as well, that did make things turn around so quickly, like, what have we, what did he do? - Listen, man, I mean, you can't turn water into wine, you know, it's like, you're well in rocket science, I think Ollie is, you know, Ollie, as much as I love him, he wanted to go a different route, and maybe he'd have the tools at hand to go as quickly as what he wanted. I think Ollie wanted what we are, you know, what he wanted overnight, and I think he just went a little bit too quick, you know. - I remember him saying, and very early on, I won't do his accent, but it was funnier in his accent, that he wanted Palace to play like Barcelona. And he thought, I mean, yeah, we all want that, but... - Oh, some funny Ollie stories. (all laughing) - I'm sure he would like the second one. (all laughing) - Yeah, so I'm going to go back. - He'd taken over Dougie's team, and he soon realised that playing at the Dougie way was the way that that team wanted to play, not playing, right? - It was the only way we could play, you know, which was just being, like, difficult and horrible and pace, he'd come and attack in team, and I think he, you know, he wanted to change that overnight. And maybe we didn't get it, we weren't good enough. Maybe we didn't, he couldn't get his point across, we couldn't take it on what I don't know what it was, but for whatever reason it came on, I think, in fairness to TP, when he came in, he just looked at what he had, and he just went, he used to call it Ham and Eggers, you know, which is just bog standard, and he just put a bog standard way of playing in for us. But it sued us, like he said, you know, he can't turn war into wine, definitely not overnight. And TP just put a plan in place, and then when you start getting results, and you see that it's working, you know, I think the whole game away when TP first took over was massive, you know, to get that one little win away, Keith came in, Keith put those building blocks from him in place, and then we went there and won, then all of a sudden there's a good feeling within the camp and everyone, and TP comes in one in the morning, and he's got a great job, 'cause he's coming into a change room, like buzzing after winning the first game or whatever it was, our first game, God knows how long. And then obviously, we just went from there. - We've had Keith on the pod a few times, and he's always been very sort of modest about the role that he's played multiple times coming in, but as a player, like how important has he been, as a constant? - I keep steady, you know, he says, you know what we're gonna get from him every day, you know, he's a solid personality in quite emotion, less in a good way, you know, he never really gets too despairing, and he never gets too excited, which when you're kind of on the floor is what you want, you know, you want someone to just stand there, and it's just like, even if he doesn't know what's going on, at least he looks like he does. (all laughing) You know, and then at least every kind of go, okay, he knows what he's doing. (all laughing) - And so Keith, what are we doing here? (all laughing) - But that dogginess from the doggie times, and then, you know, Pudis, you don't know, that element is still there in the team, isn't it? So that when the backs are against the wall, he's still kind of revert to that. You know how to play different games when they develop. - I think what really sets you, sets it apart is when you've had a bad result, you know, I think even when Neil went last year, the most, Chris has heard of him, we've only had the two-year-old, it's a way of feeling awake. You've got another one in there, probably the most unmembrable game that any palace hands probably ever been to, but it was important for us just to like, stop the rot and just go, okay, hang on a minute, we've put two points on the board here, and we're, you know, I know there's a manager coming in, and it just kind of gave everyone a, and then having the door for a game away, as the gash was first game, it was huge, you know, because now we can just say, this is all I want to play, and then we go and we trunks them, whatever the camera I want to score with, but we, you know, it was a comfortable enough afternoon, and then all of a sudden, that good feeling is back, and then we're running into the Spurs game, so all of a sudden, though, from being on the floor, you've got a draw, two drawers, two new little drawers, and then you've battered over, and then went and beat Spurs, and now all of a sudden-- - If I can bring it back to the start of the pod, it's what a good host would do. We, you're talking about recovering from a defeat, we have just lost a spurs, so what now? How do you recover from that? - Listen, hang on a minute, you've got nine points out of six games, you've got to be off Spurs, it's not the end of the world, you know? You know, you're coming in the morning, but when you've been beat four on the spin, and you're like two points in the bottom three, and everyone's riding you off, that's when you're really tested, and that's when you really, you know, ask questions, and then you can really see who wants to, you know, you're coming in the morning, and you say, okay, who really wants to do this, who really wants to step up here? And fortunately, we've got people that react well through the challenges. - Is it, I mean, you say, being written off, this is the first time, almost in my lifetime, I remember that everyone's not riding Palace off, everyone is backing Palace to beat dark horses or whatever, is that, does that make an added pressure? Or you say you don't listen to stuff, but do you get that kind of vibe sometimes that helps other people to backing? - Yeah, you say we try best to deal in reality, and reality is like day in day out for us, filling for each game as it comes along. We prepare the same way for what for it that we did for Chelsea. Some days ago, some days it doesn't mean one. - For you, as an individual, you had quite a difficult time at that switch to me before you came to Palace. Did you find that, was it refreshing for you to kind of get this new opportunity maybe, or, I mean, we're not going into detail about what happened to him, so it just didn't work out, did it? I mean, I'd heard somewhere that you were thinking of even retiring, perhaps. When you got the call from Dougie, what was that, how did that come about, what made you... - How did it come about? I just kind of added it off to the atmosphere, and I just wasn't enjoying it any more, I think we hadn't joined something, anything was just don't want to do it any more, and they wasn't enjoying it. So I went and I saw the people at Ipswich and said to them, "No, you want to be here, "you don't really want me here." I wasn't getting on with the manager at the time. The team wasn't doing really that well, and I had kind of three years of struggles, and then I just said, "Look, let's just call it a day." Really, and they said, "Yeah, that's fine." And then I think it was on the Friday, the Thursday night, I was the first time when I was unemployed, so I'm sitting at home and I was just like, actually don't have a job. I was like, "Wow, which is kind of a reality check." And then I would have known where Dougie just phoned me, and I think Patty just got injured, Paulis hadn't started the season very well. Dougie phoned me, and I said to Dougie, "Look, my hat's not any more." I said, "I'd be doing you a disservice if I came down. "I'd be robbing you guys 'cause I don't want to do it anymore." And he was pretty persistent, and he just said, "Look, I was flying back to her in that Friday, "and I was going to go stand and sit and go home." And then Dougie said, "Just do me one favor, come down. "Meet me at that aerodrome hotel there." So he said, "Oh, I'll get your room there tonight. "Come down and just have breakfast with me." "That's all I want you to do." And I was just like, "All right, fair enough." So I went down on the Friday, and I met Dougie at breakfast with him, and he was fine. He said, "Just come up to training, bro." (laughing) And looking back, I was just like, (laughing) I was like a Dougie dad, it's just like, you know, and obviously I knew Dougie from playing against him, and I didn't really know him that well, you know, but, and he just said, "Just come up to training, bro." And this was actually all went in there. When I was training, then he said to me, "Just," he said, "Look, do you want to train?" And I was like, "Well, all right." - And he was fine. - I was like, "Oh, it's kind of shit." (laughing) Yeah, and then when I walked into the pallethedron, there was a lot of players that I'd known, you know, Aaron Moore, but Hamwood played with Peter Ramage. There was all players that I'd known, and it was just, I don't know, it was a good field. It was just something that just felt right, and then they trained and actually enjoyed it. It was the first time they enjoyed the training session, and like, a long time. And I was just like, "Yeah, this is all right." And then Dougie said, "Look, do you want to sign? "Do you want to just do a three-month deal?" And I was like, "All right, fine." And he said, "Well, we're starting tomorrow against you." (laughing) You know, it's all of a sudden I've gone from like, going on down into like, staying in there, I didn't have any big boots, and we had nothing, so I just like got some boots, and then we'd beat Chef Uenza. - Did you think you'd be where you are now when you didn't? - No, not at all, not at all. You know, I've said this before, you know, there's something quite liberating about just going down there with no expectations. It was just, you know, it was a, you know, turning too bad, it's like it's, when you hit rock bottom, it's kind of like, things have got so bad that you'd give up, you know, that you'd actually just gone, "I don't want to do this anymore." So, for me, any day from that day forward, it's just the biggest bonus ever. You know, for me to be able to come in every day and do it, it's just, and I try and keep my mind setting up, mind, you know, in that frame of mind, just enjoy it, 'cause I know it's like to not enjoy it. And I think, was this good too, Chef Uenza? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really interesting to hear you talk, 'cause you listen to any football thrown in, or you listen to any fans in pubs, and the perception is that players will just sit there on the bench taking the money. So, it's really interesting to hear that you were honest enough to say to clubs, basically, that I'm not, my heart's not in it, I'm robbing you, I'll walk away, 'cause most fans wouldn't expect to, you know, football to say that. I mean, I presume you can't be the only person. - To be fair, what Steve Parrish gave me, you with Robin, me, even for three times. (laughing) It was you Steve Parrish, I was getting paid by the world, I was getting paid by him. (laughing) - It was the only day. - Yeah. - Yeah. (laughing) So, that was just it. - You were doing so well then, as well, yeah. - You were doing so well. - Yeah, at least at the concert you were in, while you stayed with that, all the time, but I say, listen, what, you paid me for three months? You owe me. (laughing) - But maybe it felt like a perfect match, because Palace were a team that only two years before, that had been a rock bottom as well. You know, nearly gone out of business before Steve had stepped in. So, maybe it kind of felt like a perfect marriage player to club. - Yeah, I mean, that's right. - You've also been a pivotal point for our defence, as well. I mean, we've, every defender that's come in and has played alongside you. Is that, do you think that that's, like, you're not the club captain, I guess, but do you find that you take that responsibility as being your own, you know, leading the defence and making sure people are there? - I don't. You know, I try not to think about stuff. It's like, you just be who you are, and if that's good enough, then great. You know, and you're trying to do what you can do, and if that's enough, then great. And the day that, that's gonna come soon, where people just say, look, thanks, we're going again in another direction, and that's fine, 'cause I realize I'm not getting any younger. So, and that's fine. There'll be no hard feelings. There'll be nothing on shake everyone's hand and say it's been emotional, and get on with my life, you know, and that's, that's just what, so every day I just come in, I'm trying to be who I am and do what I do, and as long as the gaffers happy with that, and when my teammates are happy with that, then I'll continue to do that, but there'll come a day where it won't be. - Well, this first part has also been emotional, so let's wrap it up there. In part two, we got questions from our listeners, so join us in a bit. (upbeat music) Hello, this is welcome back to the 5-year plan podcast. - Hey! - We bought 150 and was sponsored by J.C. Innovation and Strategy, the global research brand, consultancy from South London. Visit J.C., hyphenis.com, I didn't even ruin that one. And also, vector printing, all your print and embroidery needs, go to vector.co.uk. That's vector weather? - Yay! It doesn't get half the enthusiasm we used to give it, okay? - No, really? - Since the really long spots has came in. - Yeah. I try to make it even. - J.C. is bigger than you. - Vector, vector, no, that we love them. They've been in a long South London. - Yeah. - No, no, no, no, no. - It's been twice about giving us our beer money, okay? - Okay. - Why would you do this? - So, part two, as always, is questions from our listeners. They've got a lot of questions this week, so I try and crack on with them. A lot of them are for Damien, so when they're head straight in, a lot of them are themed around your battle with Costa a few weeks ago, people are saying that. And Jordan. - Jordan. - Jordan. - Has said, after such a brilliant battle with Costa, can you remember the last striker to give you such a physical challenge? - Cool. Yeah, I used to get bullied a lot when I was a kid. (laughing) When I was a young footballer, there was a guy who used to play for Oxford in what's no lead to, called Julian Allsopp. He was just, you know, not a very pleasant guy to play against. The guy down at Bournemouth, remembering Fletcher, used to roll his sleeves up, run his boy steps. (laughing) - He's got a slam-end after you. - Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, as a 21, 22-year-old, sent her back just starting out, and then you've got that guy who's basic philosophy of football as if he can't win the header, he's gonna head your head. (laughing) - Wow. - You know, and that happened a few times, you know, and down the lower leagues, that's what you tend to get. - Do you have a play against him, Windows? - Yeah, I play with Team Windows. (laughing) - At Hull. Yeah, I think he's a good guy. I play against him when he's at Bradford, when I was at Hull and stuff like that. But I used to room with him actually at Hull, meaning, which was a fairly unpleasant experience. (laughing) When you think of your atypical northering from Hull. - He likes a pint of pint, did he? - Oh my God, he liked a lot of things. (laughing) - He's really interested in talking now, 'cause he talks about-- - He can talk now? - Yeah. (laughing) - You know, I love it, it was like that, 'cause I used to room it up and it was just slurs. - Oh God. - I'm probably something out of the 12 points. (laughing) - Having to leave football and have him not knowing what it was gonna be like and how difficult but now, he wishes he'd retain more memories of playing the game, 'cause he loved it, he had a great life. - The guy played it, he was 40, he was like 39. - He was always gonna get into Hull. - He keeps himself a good shape. He liked the drinking, whatever, but he used to keep himself. Really, really well, he was a good guy, actually, I learned it off from him. - Do you prefer the physical battle sometimes, rather than some lippy little? - Not really, you know, he's got to accept that. I'm quite boring with him, honestly, you know, as you said, it is what it is, man. I can't really like, you know, prefer certain things, just if someone put something in front of you, you got to deal with it, you know, you got to assess it quickly and do the best you can with it, I mean, don't get excited or worried or depressed or any of it, it's just what's there is there, it's gonna happen, you've got to do it as best you can. - You talk about being a young centre-back coming through, is it harder at the moment for young centre-backs to come through a high-level championship Premier League? 'Cause we've talked to him previously about that, there hasn't really been a young centre-back at Palace that's kind of come through. Is there a difficult position? - In a difficult position, a lot of it has done an instinct, a lot of it has done an experience and feel, especially at the top-leveling. I know a lot of people, you know, might think you're having a quiet game, but a lot of it is like just blocking up passing lanes, make mid-field players, check out and go somewhere else, you know, if you can fill those gaps early and get there early enough, you will make mid-field players, check out and go to a full-back, and then you've done a great job, and a lot of people obviously see that type of thing, so it's about sliding and sliding across and reading passing lanes and where they want to go and you're getting there first so they've got to go somewhere else. - And you've played in mid-field and left-back in there? - Yeah, I played everywhere, man, everywhere. - We always get a feeling you'd like to go up front. - Yeah, power took that out of me, though. I think that took two days. - That was a football game when we were three and all down. - Yeah. - And you just went for it. - I didn't first day in training, I did that with Paris. Anyway, I don't happen with me sometimes. (laughing) - I don't know, I'm... - Message receipt. (laughing) - I would stay firmly in my place. (laughing) - Okay, the next question is from Jack Pierce. - Hey, Jack. - He says, "Demo, you're a very handsome man. "Would you say you're the most handsome "in the current squad?" - My wife has got Johann Cabai as a screen saver. - Whoa, yep, is that why you're growing the beard? (laughing) - Trying to definitely look like him. - That's kind of work, and I drink in wine, you know? - I don't know, man, you're on the good looking guy, so I'll give it to him as well. - That's a good option, good choice. - There are quite a lot of questions, I don't know whether. - The next question that could be, I'm certain that he is. - Shamas. - I'd definitely not hear this. (laughing) - In the whole way, Shamas. - As we've said multiple times, Shamas would be fine if you just sorted out the hair issues. - You can listen to this for just a few hours. - Sham couldn't care. - Like, about a lot, like, you just, you know, probably Shamas doesn't even know, there is a podcast, I'd say. (laughing) - Well, to be fair, Dan's gonna be upset if I didn't give him a mention for the best look. - Really? - Yeah, I'd be kind of the fans, he's himself, it's a bit of a look. (laughing) - Okay, next question. - Sorry, speaking of Dan, was he a bit perturbed by all the first man that he tried to make about his tackle last week? So he tried to make it much bigger. - I don't know. - He tried to make it much bigger. - He sure have it, the tackle on the grower of the Z. - I don't even know that one they've mentioned. - Right, I suppose so, I don't really know what to ask. - Most Palace fans, the city overreacted, big time tackle, I don't know, I didn't see it, so I don't really know. - Yeah, and then the one that, was it all right, to run on the guard with the relationship? - Yeah, took him out, yeah. - Okay, next question is from Luke Hodson. - Hello, hello. - It's Perdangan, and it says, what was your image of the Palace fans before you joined, and how is it now? - Honestly, I came in with no expectations, so I didn't know, you know, I mean, listen, the one thing I did know that I always enjoyed playing Salas when I was, you know, and I always got reasonably good results when I came here with Hollen Ipswich, you know. And I always did like playing there. Yeah, I'll tell you one of my biggest memories, actually, was we played Palace when I was at Ipswich. It was in April, sometimes the Grand National was on, they showed the Grand National on the big screen. And one of my memories was the place headed back looking at that stage. - It was during the game, yeah. - During the game, they played the Grand National. I remember playing Zeddaback and looking up what did the Grand National have. - That's a memory from that. - It was interesting, the tactic to put you off. - Well, I just thought there's not going to be people to show the Grand National. - The Palace Scouts have done their races. - Yeah, they knew that. - If it was a team of gamblers, that is a fact. - But, I mean, you seem to have quite a good relationship with the Palace fans now. Are you a bit of a fans' favor at the moment? - Oh, is that right? - Yeah. - Did you not realize that? - Everyone loves that. - I didn't know that, to be honest with you, I don't... Oh, listen, the fans have been great. It's been some great times over the last three or four years and they've been immense and I think there's a support we get even when we're not winning. One memory for me is when we went the first year we were all went to the Emirates and we were two men down with 10 minutes ago and the Arsenal fans were leaving. And not one Palace fan left and we were attacking that end and I remember 88 minutes and the game was just dying out. So we were just killing it with their passing and we were just kind of going, "Come on, just blow the whistle. "It's done." And the Palace fans were still celebrating down in the far corner. And that is one memory that sticks with me. I do remember that, you know, all the fans were singing and jumping and flags were going. I just thought fair play because a lot of people would be thinking, "It'd be good to beat the traffic." You know, or get the tube or we'll go and have a point or whatever, you know, but to a man that was packed. And I think even in injury time, the Emirates was half empty, except that corner and the thing. And not only was it there, there was some singing, so... - It's a bit of a clean show, isn't it, talking about when people talk about fans kind of lifting the players, but like in the game against Liverpool, for example, when we drew through all that moment when you scored that goal, that change to us as a fan, I think, it just changed the way that we were thinking about that match and the whole ground lifted. Do you find that that can play a part, as in that hearing, that noise, or is it just a case of you just, you're doing your focus so much? - No, I think it's, you know, it's important. I think, you know, all those great stories is, like Steve said earlier, you know, from where the clock came from, to then be playing at the Emirates, I think there was definitely a kind of, wow, we actually hear this is amazing, we're just gonna enjoy the ride, we're probably gonna get relegated. I think a lot of fans were probably thinking, maybe not a lot of fans, I think maybe there was a feeling, like, you know what, this might be a one-year deal. This might be a one-year deal, you know, if we, let's just enjoy it. If we go down, at least we've got some money, whatever, and I just think that as the club progresses, it's important that people don't lose that. The fans, you know, don't get away from that and start, all of a sudden, we lost the Spurs and know, like, oh my God, we're terrible team, you know, I think we can just always remember the roots of where they came from, because it's easy to get carried away and get excited and set expectations so high, and, you know, everyone wants to sign every player under the sun, and all of a sudden, we say, if that's me, we're Champions League, and I'm going, you people are on drugs, like, I mean, you know, like what? - You've been talking about it. - But it's so stupid, it's like, you guys crazy, like, you know, if we get 40 points this year, okay, we'll be all upset, but okay, that's the main aim, like, that's the priority this year, and if we get 40 points in December, or we get it on the 14th of May, I don't care. As long as we get it, now, if we get 40 points, then we can readjust and reset the goals and whatever, but, you know, we're only in this league three years and we're building and it's a slow process, and I just hope, I hope, and I don't think these Palace fans really, but I just hope people don't start getting carried away. - So the players that we get carried away, whereas if you're with players to come in and focus and just get on, like, no, we don't, no. - No one at Palace is another, none of the staff, no one's getting it. - No. - Seriously? - No, it would never happen. I'd soon ruin it, don't worry. (laughing) - I'd still drop a door to reality on it, I'd still make a raise. (laughing) - It's all about Arsenal fans and Palace fans. One of the reasons is, and it's partly the reason you're so popular, it's 'cause Arsenal, one or two exceptions, haven't got players that are from their background. We, Palace have always had, even the team of the 90s, there was always three or four players that were local or from the battle to get where you got them. Palace fans have always related to players like that, and when you see players have struggled in the same way most people in the crowd have struggled, it's much easier to get behind them and to give them your support. Then if you've got a team that's buying every player under the sun, it's like, it's waffful. I've got a couple of most of the waff fans, they're loving what's happening, but at the same time, half of them to identify with the players, apart from Dini to an extent, because most of them knew him, most of them haven't come from the background that they know, but we've always had. So yeah, we've still got so many players who played in the playoff file, and that helps the experience with each other. - Yeah, it's very important, I think. - Yeah, very important. - Yeah, I spoke to Ian Dowe about that one, 'cause I was like, he got the job, and Ian used to live, I used to live in Chesek, and Ian lived there as well. So I got to know Ian reasonably well, just, you know, whatever, a few coffees with him, whatever, and we spoke about when Palace got promoted with him, and he said one of the, no one said mistakes, but he said one of the things he probably would change is, "No, I don't know, because you guys tell me better," but he said he went foreign and quick, and went for names, and he recognized-- - Yeah, he does, yeah. - To recognize that, he said I should have stuck with what got me where I was, and he said, "No, like I said, you guys don't know "that better than me," but he did admit that to me on one occasion, and I just thought, yeah, and he said, "If I ever go up," and he said, "You guys will be, "if we ever went up with Kupi, aren't we?" He said, "You guys would be, "make us after a week later," but-- (laughing) - For his interest in it, Kupi, are they? Yeah, a player like Clint Hill has lasted there and stayed in the first team, when all these mercenaries have come and gone, and Clint Hill is not the most talented footballer in the world, but you'd want him in your team, Kupi. - His love, and he was great at Palace. - That's the way we did, yeah. - The next question is from Molly Road Knight. Hi, Molly. - Yes. - Good. - Great, yeah. - Today, and says, "Does leading the team out "as captain affect how you view the game?" - No. - Good, okay. (laughing) - Doesn't change anything in terms of-- - No. - What you talking to players or what's that? - I mean, listen, we've always said this from day one, for any team to be successful, you can have one leader, you need five or six, you know, and if me is playing around playing, or Danzy wears it, you know, it doesn't matter. You need five or six that are complimented, you do it quite well, so you just-- - I think Harry's fans need to hear that as well. 'Cause it's, you know, there's this kind of emphasis that one guy leads, but obviously-- - Jesus Christ. - Well, I couldn't believe it would be impossible, you know. You got half five or six, and I think we're lucky that we've got five or six personalities that kind of, you know, you've got punch, you're really vociferous, and moans, you know, but that's leading in a way, you know? And then you've got Mille, who's reason that we, you know, quiet, and, you know, just goes about his business and leads how he does, and then you dance, he does what he does, and obviously I do what I can do. So you need to compliment, you can't just have one leader who's either vociferous or leads by doing it, you need, you have to have it, you know, so. - Okay, the next question is from Tony G. - Hi, Tony. - Hi, Tony. - He says to him, "What's been your most enjoyable result "at Palace?" - Most of you have a result. - It's on your arm, isn't it? - Yeah, I've got a tattooed on my arm. - No, it's not the most, that's not the best word, man. - No? - Whatever you got. - That's not even your arm. - And this is a play off date, really. I went to see Eric Clapton the week of the play on final, and I was a big Clapton fan, and he's got a song called Running On Faith, and I just thought to myself, if we won, I said I got a tattooed on me with the date underneath it. - Nice. - So I just got that, you know, put on my arm. My most memorable result, you don't laugh, and it's so stupid, but like, middle wall away, fourth, last game of the season, when we drew nothing. - Yeah, we know. - Yeah. - Really? - Yeah. - Boy. - 'Cause this shit was about to hit the fan. (laughing) And it was like, all of a sudden, we'd gone from like, second or third to fifth, and then the vulture started circling, and I just thought, "Okay, if we drop over the playoffs, "we're not getting back in." - Yeah. - You know? It was like, one of them wondering if we don't, and it was a rearranged game, I think, or something like that, and it was a horrible night, and it was just an awful game, and with me and Gabs, Danny Gabs played center back, and we were just like, "Look, Gabs, if we get a draw here, "we'll go back to fourth or something," and it was just like, "We'll give ourselves some brief," and we finished that season with like four or five draws on the spin, - Yeah. - And we were kind of thinking five points to do it, and me and Gabs are going, "Look, four-nil-nills, "does it for us, man, you know?" Just limping the playoffs, we get a 10-day rest, we reassess everything, you know? I just think that if Milwaukee beat us, you probably would've dropped those playoffs, and then, when you're out, then the whole balloon burst, and you never get back in. And I just think me and Gabs are just looking into the whole game going, "This is gonna be disgusting," as in, like, "This is not gonna be a pleasant night," even if the pitch was terrible, everything was just horrific, and it was just like, "You know what, man, "let's just get in there on there and go home." And me and Gabs just hated it, and we kicked, smashed everything, and we just went right. And we finished "nil-nill," and it kind of, if you lost one, like I said, it just rips the air, so it's kind of like, "Oh, where's the nill of the draw?" People just kind of go, "Well, it's all right." You know, there's a local derby as well, so if we'd lost a lot of the rivals, the fans probably would've just deflated quicker than anything, and I just think that was, that, for me, is always the biggest result, just to get a "nil-nill," and then I think we played some on the Saturday and Drew again. Barons, I think it was, and then we'd be being in the last game of the season. - Peter Brown, dude. - Yeah. - You know, and I just think that "nil-nill" was just crucial, just to keep the whole thing together without falling apart. - But we did go back to basics, didn't we, at that point? By basics, I mean, that kind of defensive kind of-- - Yeah. Listen, that was not what we didn't need to bother. (laughing) Honestly, there's nothing, it was just literally, we're not dropping out of the playoffs, then there was a sheer will more than anything else, you know. - And when we got into the playoffs, did that, you said about having 10 days to kind of reorganise? Was that actually, was it a decision, a conscious decision to kind of play that counter-attacking start? - No, it just gave everyone a breath, because when you're in a running, like when you're coming on the stretch, there's a lot of pressure, there's a lot of people talking, there's a lot of everything going on, and I think once you see the finish and we got there, it was kind of a case of everyone just went, okay, we're here now, it doesn't matter how we got here, you know, it doesn't matter if we're here, it's a new start, and that was kind of the attitude we took really, and then the pregnant home game, we were horrific, and some nicked and knew, knew, and that, like how we got, you know, Muz got injured, you know. And I don't know, I don't know how Palestine fans feel towards Adam Wuberham, but you know what honestly, man, if it wasn't for that guy, and I mean it, this club would be nowhere near where it is, and Palestine came home and said, well, we missed all the chances to play our phone, whatever. - Oh, he worked so hard. - So, I don't know if people understand, but for a guy who didn't play all season, to come off the bench and send me one of a play-off, and that just is a testament to the level of professional that he was, that he kept himself in the condition that he was in, day in, day out, in the gym, worked hard, was a great leader, when someone leaders, Albie, was unbelievable, as a real big presence, and he came on, and the guy just went, and then all, you know, we were on our knees, you know, we have gone, we've had a terrible finish this season, Moses got off, and we're kind of on the pitch going, oh, here we go, and I remember the frosting Albie D.B. came on and just nailed the Brighton player, you know, and we all just kind of went, oh, hang on. (laughing) Honestly, it was like, and that's the type of leadership you like all the way. - And it's fun, it's lovely. - Yeah, we love it, we love it, we love it. - We're different in Emperor, Wilbur Hema, bitch. - Yeah, and it was just like-- - It's great seeing him play so well for Bristol City. - Yeah. - The season, getting the goals that he deserved. - Genuinely, genuinely, one of the good guys, like, one of the great, and I went on Norman, I was 19 to Stockport when I was at Leicester, and I played for Albie for three months, and then I became the whole, no, no, I'll be my whole career, and he genuinely is one of the good guys, like, not, I mean, Albie, himself, he's not the most talented guy in the world, but oh my God, I've never seen anyone out working, day in day out, on point every day, and I think-- - I kind of had to go a lot of time for him. - Oh yeah, that's-- - It sounds as though, Rob, you've been over thinking stuff, though, 'cause you, all you'll talk about tactics and strategy, and players-- - No, I just-- - Someone's coming to the neighborhood, right? - What it does, it gives you all a list, it's like, you know, the top score is going off, and you're thinking-- - But it's the same for the fans and players, do that. You know, and you say players digging in like that. - Oh, it was the same for us, 'cause we're as-- we're as into it, and as nervous as anyone else. - Okay, next question is from Dan McKinnon. How do you know? - I don't know. - Who's the better guitarist? - Julian. - Julian. - You-- - Julian. - You're the only question, man. - Really? - Ah, we're no question. Dudes is pretty accomplished. - Really? - And that's not a sound on me, 'cause I'm actually okay. - Okay. - But Dudes is a fairly-- But Dudes has been played for 12 years, you know? So, yeah, I've only been playing boat two and a half later. - Do you get lessons from Julian? - No. - No, Julian-- - Overthinking again? - Julian's got a whole studio, like, Julian plays drums as well. - Really? - He's actually a better drum player than he is a guitar player. - That's interesting, because Dan McKinnon's got a second part to question, but if you two were to form a band, what would it be called? - A boring band, that would be-- (all laughing) - It's like a drum thing. - It's so boring. (all laughing) - Do you need to call it the Red and Blue's drum, surely? - It's just you and Doris and Drummond. - The Red and Blue's drum. - The Sash. - Well, just Julian didn't get the time to play music, 'cause he never says no to anything, does he? It's always busy, Julian. - Oh, he is? - Yeah, it's always doing it. - Yeah, he's always doing it. - Yeah, he's always doing, you know, schools and hospitals and visits and things, he's-- - Well. (all laughing) - It's waiting to make me feel bad. (all laughing) - There we go. (all laughing) - Yeah, no one wants any of the pod. (all laughing) - Oh, Julian did it? - He did pod one, pod one hundred. - Yeah, we had to do his restaurant now, so he got one. - There you go, man. I did it, because Steve offered me one. (all laughing) - Okay. - No, but let's take home. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay, we've got a question. I actually don't know who asked this one, because I've deleted that, but the question is-- - Thanks. - Sorry. Who were the players, Damon, that you admired or aspired to be like when you were earlier in your career? - Early in my career. - Where did you start off, isn't it? Young, a really young player? - Less Cocksilly in the League of Ireland until I was 19, and then I went to Leicester City in the Premier League at a time. - So did you play for them? - Yeah, I played it in nine games in the Premier League. - As a centre though? - As a, I played, no, central midfield player. - Well, who was the manager then, as well? - Pied Hayler. - Oh, Pied Hayler, please. - So he came in as a there and a hole. - Yeah, so when he went to hole, then he took me from, because Leicester, Harry Bassett took over as manager, and Leicester wasn't doing pretty good, or they got ready even, probably that year. And I was playing, so I went in alone a lot that year. The second year, so the first year went over, it was the remnant of the leftover of the marinear team. - You know, that really good Leicester team. The Mattie, L.S. J. Tigers, Frank Sinclair, Muzzy, Wally Savage, Neil Lennon, M.E. Heskey. They were all there, and then went to Martin left, and took Lenny with him, and took Emile Wether. Emile went to Liverpool, I think. And then Neil Lennon went to Celtic, and then it kind of just started to disintegrate a little bit, and then I played that year. From Christmas onwards, I played eight in nine games, and the Premier League, it was only 19 at the time. - In midfield, as a centre midfield player. How defensive would it take anymore? - I'd just run around smashing people. (all laughing) Pretty much, man, because that's all I had. (all laughing) I figured I'd still have 50 years later. (all laughing) Yeah. - So you weren't quite young and goodbye then? - Jesus, no, I was like, oh, the old Leicester Bridge just called me Chopper, and that was great, that was great. Yeah, I was quite, yeah, and just sheer. - Physical. - Ah, I don't know. I just run around, really. And I think that just got me to the point where it gave me a career, and then I just kind of learned the rest. (all laughing) Or learning the rest. - Okay, well, speaking of your career, we got a question from Chris Emmanuel. - Hello, Chris. - He says, have you got any intention into going to the management? - No. But you never say never. But no. - Over to the future, Chris. - No. Not at the moment, no. Oh, it's off for me. - We got another question from Will Darnley. - Well, why do you end up with 27? Has that got a meaning? - Oh, that's a good question, isn't it? - Honestly. - Yeah. - It was handed to me the Daily Sheffield Wednesday game. - Really? - It's a little like, bright in the old kit, man. - That's it. - I've never asked a change in order. Like, it's not really matter to you, is that just-- - It's never been mentioned, it'll be an honest, yeah. - Really? - Yeah, it was just, I don't know. I didn't even know what number he's getting until I came in the change room before the Sheffield Wednesday game. And he was. - And yeah, look at what that number he says. What you've done in that number 27 show? - Yeah, I don't really care what I'm going to ask you. It's like, that's a number, you know? It's like, it's not a superstitious person, so, you know. - Okay, Will Laws, hello. - Hello. - He says, Damien, who's the most underrated striker in the Premier League? But I'm going to open that to maybe the most underrated striker you've come up against? - I don't really, really, really like the boys who would haven't then say it on me, Manair. - Manair, yeah. - Not his name, Manair? - Yeah, he's a good player. Oh, I'm very good, handful. He's one you don't want to play against. He's just relentless. You know, he's just, just relentless. And you're just looking, oh, mate, just stop the plays, just slow down. (laughing) You know? So he's a handful, yeah. A real handful. - You've come at least faster than half, you know? - Yeah. - There you go. - Yeah, yeah. - I think he's Dwight Gell, we have here as well. Oh, really, right here. I think he's a real good player, man. Really, really good player. He's similar, you know? And he can finish off ball-feet, and he's a real good player. - Is he the best team, didn't he? - Yeah. - He's probably the biggest conversation point on the podcast when you're not here. He's Dwight Gell, and why he doesn't start more often, or how to get the best out of him. 'Cause he's clearly a really, really good player that doesn't get as many. Yeah, he seems like one of those sort of old-fashioned players would benefit from playing with a big centre forward, but no one plays that old-fashioned four-four-two anymore, but we get asked that question every week, is why did Gell start, what's it, so? - That's different, 'cause I mean-- - Of course, of course. - To get the best out of Gell, you gotta play two up, top and play two up, top, you lose in the midfield player, and then you're not gonna get so served teams, you're gonna lose in the midfield battle. - Yeah, yeah. - Unfortunately, that's just the dilemma, but-- - He scores. - And he's a good kid as well. He's a real good kid. - He's more of a, no, he scores when he comes over, but then he comes over for us straight, 'cause when he does come on late, and he might be only against one chance, and he hasn't got to the pace of the game, and then he misses it, so then in the player, the people that don't rate him, plays into their hands. - He goes way too much into this. - No, some flop, which is-- - I'm not supposed to be able to get anything better to me. - Yeah, I think that's kind of what it is. - We know, we know. - We know. - It's just, it's a once a week opportunity to get stuck in, it's just what we just said, it's in conversation with the pub, basically, without the knobs. - Yeah, it is. (laughing) (laughing) - But without the knobs, we didn't. - Okay, so, then we have a lot of questions, actually, about Peter Ramage, 'cause he's the combination that's sent back for a while. And people just asking, what, did Ramage do the damage, don't know what that means, but like, someone for Oyster in contact. - Yeah. - 'Cause you guys seem like you had a real good character. - Yeah, Ram was in India right now, playing for Caroline, no, he's-- - I'm trying to go out there. - And guess who the manager of Caroline later is? Peter Taylor. (laughing) - Yeah, so, Rob is out there and Andre Moritz is out, played from Mumbai, whatever. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - And they're like as a manager up there, so, there two guys that I still speak regularly, like, on their faces. - Yeah, that moment, won't be, didn't you, where-- - Yeah. - It's kind of got a little bit emotional, I guess, but, without, you know, I probably don't want to share what was going on at that point, but, is that one of those things where it's that mutual, kind of-- - I mean, me and Ram were like, "Keep you all together." - Yeah. - You know, and I think, I sorry for keeping all the same time, Ram, but then he came off from Newcastle, and he came down from Hull. So, the two of us were basically like, so we just lived with us a little bit, and then we ruined each other, and then we just went on a lot of lads holidays, and me and Ram be some room together. So, we've been through a lot, man. - We've seen a lot. (laughing) In Vegas, me and Ram were. So, he had some pretty emotional times. That flight back from Vegas next to Peter Rabbit, he was, you know, both of us are just, that's a long flight back from Vegas. You have to reevaluate your whole life, your life, your worst person ever. (laughing) So, we paired our souls to each other. (laughing) And he asked us to speak to him on a weekly basis, you know, and he's on play for me. So, again, one of the good guys, man. - Yeah. - It was great. He came back from the Julien's game. - Yeah, he did, and then that's the way he was, he would go all his way, you know. He's such a nice guy, like, unbelievably nice. - He's not a leader, really. - Yeah, Ram was just on the... I've never had anyone say anything about it, but he's just a nice guy, genuinely. - Okay, Gareth Jones? - No, go with Gareth. - Says. - He's not a other question, are they? - I feel like he already- - You mentioned him, you mentioned him. - With it. - It's another one. - Gareth Jones says, "Who has the best beard at the club?" Joe Ledley. - He's got to be, isn't it? - 100%. - He's got to be. - You seen that photo of him, like, what was it? - Some festival, yeah. - Oh, yeah, we're good. - I'm the first one to say. - Good one, that's what it is. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You don't agree. - Is he really both tired or something? - Ah, yeah. - Yeah. - We can break it through. - He always gets his oils and things delivered to the club and all his beard equipment delivered, and everyone's looking at him going, "He's doing the private guy, isn't he?" He massively, yeah. - Well, if they're a player, it's a great beard. - It's an awesome beard. - It is. - Do you ever feel about that? - It's not for me, man. No, I don't really, I can't sleep with him. As soon as he gets to a certain end, I just can't sleep, but, you know, Joe's all right. - Okay, Tim Harp. - Hi, Tim. - It's a question for Damien, but I'm going to open up to the whole pod as well. It says, "If you could have written any song in the world, or would it be, and why?" It's a strong question. - There you are. Sort of something, sort of a question you know this one. You need to know this for that question, isn't it? - Yeah, you should. - Everything about it. You know, by honest, it's always level terrace, part by joy division, or anything by the Smith stuff, that. - Or Faroe's Requiem. - That's good. - It would have been nice to have written "Glad All Over", so that every time you went to football match, someone would be singing your songs. - They were all to, don't you? - I don't know. - I'm going to sing it on stage. There was a live, there was a regular live quiz, at the end of the festival, Steve. Five nights, this is a crowd of 400, but when you take part, you have to choose a song to sing as a band. So I had to do "Glad All Over", and it's the first time I was singing it in public. So you're getting 400 people to join in in a room of wooden floors. It's just fantastic. - Yeah, it's a great song. - Because everyone knows the word to me. - Oh, even if you don't, you just stamp along, so... - I don't know the words. - But I just like... - No, no, no, no. - I don't know, I'm all right. - There'll be a clap and song. - Yeah, maybe, man. - Oh, Dylan. - Bob Dylan's a good one. - Johnny Cash. - I'll probably go with "Real Me and Juliet" "Dirt Straits". - Oh, good shot. - That's a good shot. - Yeah, good shot. - That's a nice one to have written that. - It would be nice to have that. - That is a good shot. - Andy? - Er, at that time. - I know it's not quite the time you did, I'd say something. - That's your role on the podium. - Something I've kind of played. - So what one of those things? - Yeah, what one of those things? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I'm a good guy, then. - I'll say... - Johnny Cash, Fox and Prison Blues. - Good, there we go. Right, OK, we're going to wrap up the questions there. Listen to us, thank you very much for your questions. Those are excellent. In part three, we're going to look forward to Palace's next game, which is against Watford. So we've seen a bit. - Hello, this is Welcome Back to the Five-Year Pan Podcast. - Hey! - Pod 150, sponsored by J.C. Innovation and Strategy. The Global Research and Brand Consultancy from South London. Visit jc-is.com. And vector printing, all your printing and embroidery needs. Again, again, and vector printing! All your printing and embroidery needs. Go to vector.co.uk, and that's vector weather. - OK. - Now Palace have got two games coming up in the next week. We've got Watford Away, which we'll get to in a bit, and Charlton at Home in the League Cup. Steve, is a League Cup or an FA Cup run on this season? Is that an ambition for a club? Oh, I think we'd love to have a Cup run. But obviously, if you own a football club, the Premier League is it. I think even if you win the League Cup, the prize money, you're getting the Europa League, so that's a prize, but the prize money is equivalent to one place or something in the Premier League. So, commercially, there's very little importance to it. But one of the greatest days of my life was going to Wembley for the 1990 FA Cup final. And it would be fantastic if Palace could get to another Cup final in my lifetime. So, I'd love it. But, you know, there's no reason why not. You need two, three, four games where the draw favours you, and then a couple of big results, and you won it. It's nice for fans of a lower league team from South London to visit the Premier League stadium. - It's their Cup final, isn't it? - It's their Cup final, isn't it? It's a very important one to remind them of what they're missing. Yeah, because otherwise, we'd never have played them, I guess. No, they may need to know what it's going to be. - That's going to be about some... - Right, where you're supposed to chat on one of them, quite a bit, quite a bit. Some of the players are asking about where do they fit in? Yeah, after the Tottenham game, Johan and Paco asked me, "Where does that fit?" And I just said, I put in the order of brightening, the middle of all the chatting, which I think is accurate, is that? Yes, yeah, yeah, but it's the background. So I just said that to them, and I think it's a derby game. But, you know, Steve said that maybe, you know, honestly, I think it's the next progress for this club, isn't it, win a cup? You know, I mean, you might as well say it, "We won a win a cup, I would like to win a cup." I got to accounting, got a semi-final with Ipswich. A few years back, we played Arsenal, we beat him at Portman Road, 1-0, and then you're 19 minutes from a cup final, 40 of the beat is 2-0 at the Emirates. So I was that close to getting to a cup final, but when we sat on the Saturday year and spoke with Steve Parrish about, you know, what we were trying to do, it was pretty high on my list. And I picked the lead cup really because of the fines in February. So, you know, I tell it the way quick, and it's not one. It's like an FA Cup run, you know, where the fines after the end of the season might affect your lead form, and then you start missing lead games and falling behind, and that can be a bit difficult. Is that a thing that the cups can consider about, you know, you're a hero, you're a hero, you're a hero. Because I think, you know, if you're in trouble and you start falling two or three games behind, and then you're, like, kind of out the relegation done by a point, but you've got three games in hand, then all of a sudden you're kind of going, and then you lose one game in hand, you're probably going to take an eye on a minute, and so, you know, whereas the lead cup was played midweek, it doesn't affect the lead schedule, essentially, and the fines in February. So, for me, I said, that was the one I really wanted to have a right good go at, and it's an opportunity, and it's the next step for me. This club is retaining primarily stylists, but if you want to progress, then I think you've got to look at the cups. You've got to be taking this lead cup seriously. But the lead cup, the last is another example of a reminder of how far we come, because we played Shrewsbury, and there was a day when they were our bogey team back in the 70s. We couldn't be... I've seen this lead, so many times. If we couldn't beat Shrewsbury for love, no matter what it's like, it's same with London Derby, so the first time we're in Division I, the first London Derby we won was the last game in the season when we were relegated against Chelsea. We couldn't win a London Derby for the years, Palace, and then Steve and I were supporters with Shrewsbury, we were our bogey team for the love of... That's just an indication of how far we've... No, I'm only for a second, Palace. That year, after Chef Renze, I think, in the first... We were first six games, we played move all the home, charting the way, and brightening the home, and every week, we seemed to be with Derby. I was thinking, "Fjesus, we're with Derby's sister." I was like, "I'm just saying, they never got a big one today." I was like, "Ree, Derby's a few people, gosh!" So, can I ask you a question? So, you've played presuming Ipswich against Norwich. Yeah. Is that a really... I mean, presuming that's a pretty big one. That's really Derby, yeah. What's the most intense Derby you've played with a big one? - Callie's right. - Callie's right. - Hall leads. - Oh, really? Yeah, but for... Leeds fans wouldn't record... They don't care about it, it's like... No, but for Hall, it was huge. And I remember when Leeds got ready for the Premier League, and we got promoted from League One, and when Hall got to play Leeds on equal terms, Leeds couldn't care less, 'cause they said that the left-auzer Japanese lead team that had filled them into championship, Dominic Matios and Gary Kelly's, and all these people were still there. But for Hall, it was just like... And Hall's an intense city when it comes to, like, to play football in, it's really... Those people, that's what they live and breathe for, you know? So when we got in to play them on, apparently, in the championship, at the K.C. Stadium, that was... And we beat them one now, and that's a result that I'll never forget, because for the people of Hall, genuinely, that was, like, one of the biggest days of their life. Like I said, the Leeds players couldn't care. The Leeds fans probably didn't really care, because they were an ex-champ music team. But for the people of Hall, that was really important. And I remember, before we played him that day, it was like, we're not losing this. We cannot be near the short faces again in Hall, if we lost that. In a way, that's kind of how Chuck, and we're going to approach this cup game, possibly, because Chuck and fans seem to kind of care about. Now, let's rivalry more than we, maybe, care about that. Yeah, definitely care about the result we do. Like, I think, for us fans, it's... We might not talk about how, Chuck, we're not rivals with Chuck. To me, personally, I think they're one of those kind of noisy neighbours that you don't really care about. This is a lot more expectation than managing it, you know? But, I remember when I first saw him, we were chatting away, it was a really big deal. We're beating one of the Valley, KG Sport. Remember that? Yeah, good girl. And all of a sudden, no, you've lost touch of reality, and you're like, noisy neighbour, so you're one of the people that needs tempering. No, it's one of those things where... I think it's one of those things where... That's why I want to tell you that, okay, won't it? It's one of those things where, in the build-up, it really doesn't bother me that much. But when we beat them, I love it. And that's what matters, ultimately, is winning that game. If we can keep going and then turn that into a couple of things. So you mentioned it, if it's an orange game, and the beginning of the end for me, it was just playing nor is your way in the Derby, like game on TV, and we were wondering, don't have to turn minutes, and I equilised after 14, and got sent off after 15. And so I'm just going to be around to lose 51. Which squarely got put on my toes. Oh, and like, squarely got put on my toes. I'll tell you what, I went on an Ipswich for recently, and they actually were all saying how clearly the things... I don't know what those people do. No, no, no! What was it, man? They buried me after that result, like, it was unforgivable. It was fascinating, they genuinely said... Don't have to because I don't want to know about it. Having a play like you would have made such a big difference had they actually stuck with you, rather than having it stuck with the manager. But that's kind times when you're in the game, you're just fighting for it, it's not all about that. You know, it's like, it was just, that was it for me. It was like, then you're probably going to be number one, and, anyway, that is what it is, man. Well, we got you so badly. Yeah. Wait, I mean... Until I do something, you're not going to get bored of it. I'm going to get bored of it. That's what I'm saying. You'll get bored of it, you'll get bored of it, you'll get bored of it. We're not like the other football fans. We're much, we're much, much special. OK, so what food, I think, would be a stretch to call that a dar, although it kind of technically is in geography terms. But is it... Can't remember when we last played them, didn't you remember that kind of thing? It was quite important. Yeah, it was a certain match. Oh, yeah. LAUGHTER I can't... Oh, take a movie on this. LAUGHTER I don't remember the time I was playing in that one. Yeah, I remember it off. And I think at the end he just walked off and went... Yeah, it wasn't on me. And it got changed, he didn't celebrate in any way. I did, actually, I went home. There was no photo opportunity for him, no. LAUGHTER I've still got an hour and a half on account before that, no? LAUGHTER I have seven and nine o'clock. Yeah, me. It's a photograph of me in Leicester Square with somebody. LAUGHTER I've got no idea why I was in Leicester Square with no end up, that we've... So... Erm... If I can pull out a cliche, as I like to do on this pod often, is it a must-wing game? Or is that not not me? How do we... How do we approach this one? At this part, let's say, "F***ing." LAUGHTER Don't ask, Amy. I'll get out of here. Must-win, come on, man. You and, like... This is September. It's like... How does... How does... How does police approach it? The same way we approach every game, with the same intensity, the same desire, the same game plan, the same everything, we'll do it, don't worry, and hopefully we'll work on the day, and that's it, man. Well, that's the pod! LAUGHTER Must-win, Jesus! You do the one crack! LAUGHTER Not this week, not this week. Look at that, I think looking at the Premier League. I know it's early days, but I think a lot of fans probably expected Norwich, Bournemouth, and Watford to struggle and maybe Leicester. But I think it's the most open Premier League for... For years, because I think all the big teams have been pushed... I think most of it, I think a lot of football fans expected all three of the promoting teams to struggle, and they're not so far. It looks like it's probably the most open Premier League for a long time, I think, I think... It's six games. I know, but it's not. Normally, by this stage, one of the promoting teams will have had one good result and look like they're just good. Because everybody, at some point in this year, we'll have a spell, we don't win three games. No matter how many players, we'll see those two. And then it's about you react to it, and it's the promoting teams, and can you maintain that belief and the newness of being in the division, and the showing up to the ground you haven't played in before, and the whole euphoria of it. But once that wears off and you're coming in the morning, you've lost three in the spin, then you figure out, OK? What are we actually made of? So there's a lot of them to be tested. I think some in the Newcastle will probably come good. I mean, they haven't started very well, but it's only September. There's a lot of doubt in the league's ahead. There's a lot of great victories ahead of us. And the important is not to get carried away or too depressed, which I know you clearly will do both. Managing expectations, do you like it? No, I won't, because I used to high-end laws too long, man. Yeah, I'm much older than this lot. So I've seen it all before, so I don't... I couldn't tell. No, I just tend to say reasonably morose. I'm not disappointed about it. It's the joy, man. I think the thing we've offered, though, because they've played West Brom, Southampton, this one's it, home. I don't think they've come up against somebody like us. I mean, they've played against teams that sit in front of them, basically, and they won't have played against somebody like us, who tries to get them all forward quickly and at pace. So it should be a really good game. Also, because what for the one of those teams? I don't think anyone's got any manners towards them, sort of, like, similar level to us in the past. I mean, I think everyone kind of... It's kind of pleased to see them, you know, in the terms of the size of the club, the size of the fan base. There's always a good palace to turn out in the way in. Yeah, there's always a good, yeah, way-trick paths. Yeah, always a good atmosphere, it was. It's been a great Saturday season for us. We've had one game out of London. Yeah? Yes! Awesome, man. You know. Is that actually because there's some preparation? No, just get home quicker. You know. Not the Victoria line, not the Tottenham. I don't know. Seven steps. They got home quicker from Tottenham, though, the distance. She walks to Seven Sisters team. He taught them here, yeah. Did you? You walked from the state here? Yeah, I got the... Did any panistones with you? You've been running around for an hour and a half, and then you walked to the tube. I get the tube everywhere. Did any Palace fans recognize you? No, I think most of them got on with it, and then the time we got on was finished, but... Fair enough. Well, it often comes off in this pod, and it's in the waygame, that this Palace team in the wayplay is set up better for a waygame, sort of containing people. Is that a fallacy, is that true? No, that's not true. That's... I had someone asked that at the Fairfield host to a manager who was saying the thing. Well, you've got to say about that, Kevin. The manager called an idiot. [LAUGHTER] So, I started by saying that's a layman's question, and then said, "It's an idiot's question." But that, Matt, you've not held it against that, have you? No, no, but it's... I mean, to a non-football person, it seems a logical explanation, but it clearly isn't. Do you think the pitch at Sellhouse has made the difference? Like, with the circuit? It's a huge difference. Great enough. Huge difference. Last year. You could tell it's a... You can never... You can never understand the... No, it would be that last year. So, we played on in a five-side tournament. And... I genuinely can. I twisted my ankle on that pitch, playing in that fella. Because you put your foot down. And that's the reason we didn't win that tournament. There's a lot of weight for me. So, you put your foot down to go, and the minute you put your weight down it. Does that pitch right? Just lost it. Huge, huge, huge. So, the new pitch can make a big difference. You massively, massively... But this season, is that what it's looking good? Proper, it's probably a bit original. It's a... Do I deal with it? Is it wider this season? Was that another Porton's Arms Urban myth? That probably sounds just saying the pitch is... We made it kind of in full size, isn't it, man? I know, but it put... A lot of people say it's been made a couple feet wider, but... I don't know if that's just... I thought you can. It's closing off to the... To the top side, anyway. But it looks great, man. It's a good service. It's a solid service. And the grass is quick. The training noise may be a big difference. Because we've had two... Two... Three pitches coming all the way to the training road. So, I don't know what training on proper pitches. Whereas, all along we weren't. The pitches of the... Training on were quite bad. But, in fairness to the guys, they put in three... Three brand new pitches for us. So, you get a real good surface. I know where the money came from, don't you? Through paying you, not enough, when you first came. Yeah. The money still perished. Yeah, that's what made the difference. The new youth was... We could buy the pitch. So, well done, Damien. Thank you. You don't be happy with the pitch, would you? The pitch will give away, and won't let you get away with it, I will. Good, okay. Well, folks, I mean, they kind of bring us to the end of... Add to me, do you see those predictions? Are we going to... We sometimes do, we sometimes don't. Do we feel like they're in this week? Not when one of the players is here. Probably not, I get a fan. We've got some admin. We've got some admin. Oh, we have got some admin. So, our graphic designer from the fanzine, Jesse Boyce, has mocked up some very nice fanzines. Sorry, so, I'm Prince from the fanzine last year, where Damien was on the front cover. And Damien's going to sign one of those, and we're going to auction it off for charity. And the charity's Rob Ease. It's Robert Ease and Memorial Fund, on behalf of Jacob, who passed away in the Shoramere disaster. Fantastic, so go on the FIP Twitter, which is twitter.com/fipfanzine to find out more about that, and the website, which is fipfanzine.uk, to know how you can auction for that and get involved. And just to give some story to that, it's pure... Jacob is someone that we actually played, and I don't know, that you played against him. Yeah, most of them played against him. Some played against him, and unfortunately, he passed away journey as a result of the Shoramere disaster. So, we feel that that's a great way to raise money for him. Well, it also shows as well that we talked about rivalries earlier. You know, Grandf is a Brighton charity, but... And that's a lot of... Yeah, but life is more important than football, as it turns out. So, you rise above rivalries, when it comes to things like that. And it's a very worthwhile character. So, I said, for Damien, thank you very much for joining us in the pod. Yeah, pleasure. I think also, thank you for being so honest. You may not have realised how honest you were, but thank you for being so honest. No, no, we realise that it's difficult. It's for players, because it's difficult for players to come into an environment like this. So, I mean, we thank you very much for doing that. I'll do very often to enjoy that. And I'll ponder what you're doing. And thank you. We really appreciate it. So, thank you very much. As we appreciate Steve's hospitality. Of course. Well, my wine anyway. Your water's nice, Steve. He is drinking bad water, he really is. And taps the rest of you, obviously, we always appreciate being on listeners. Thank you very much for listening. We'll see you next week after Watford. So, goodbye. (Music) This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. (Music)
We've reached 150 pods! And to celebrate, Jim, Andy, Kevin and Rob are joined by two very special guests; Steve Browett and Damien Delaney! They talk about Palace's defeat to Spurs, the upcoming clash with Watford and which Palace player has the best beard.
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