"If anyone really knew who I was, or what I was, or what I am, right, that they would not want to be around me, they would not want to know me. And from my perspective, it was that sheer of being disowned, that sheer of just being set aside, marginalized, you're not important anymore. And it's better if I just keep my distance from you." Has your marriage been shattered by sexual betrayal? Are you wondering if it's possible to save your marriage? Or even if you want to? Your story matters, and there is hope for your marriage through Christ Jesus. Welcome to Beyond Broken Vowes Podcasts. I'm Johnny. I'm Emily. And friends, we've been where you are. Our marriage vows were shattered by adultery fueled by pornography, but through a commitment to recovery, our faith in God, and our hope for redemption, we set out on a journey of healing. Now our marriage is better than we ever could have imagined, and we give God all the glory. On our show, we'll talk through difficult topics in fidelity, porn addiction, recovery, and more. So if you're ready to move from pain-filled to days into hope-filled tomorrows, grab your favorite beverage, and spend a little time with us. Marriage is redeemed, parts renewed, on Beyond Broken Vowes Podcasts. Hello everybody, and welcome back to Beyond Broken Vowes Podcasts. We are your hosts, Johnny and Emily Spiegelmeyer. Yes, we are, and we're so glad to have you with us today. Yes, we have really been enjoying our time as of late. It has been extremely busy in our personal life, just so much going on, with family visiting and with some of the goings-on here on our quaint little family farm. I don't know what else to call it. It's really just five acres that we live on. With some animals. With some animals, yes, there are deathly animals, but so much fun gathering together with family and just really enjoying the presence and the chaos at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of family around can be very chaotic, but it's also so there's something about it. You just feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself, and I love it. I just love it. I grew up in a big family. So where we have extended family coming to visit for days on and big and get a little dicey sometimes, you know, all the logistics, but it's so much fun. And it helps us to step outside of ourselves and, you know, what we focus on most of the time, especially since we podcast about it, you know, this betrayal and addiction recovery. And you know, focus on others and just really enjoy something else. I did notice a big difference in my cell with all of the busyness people in my house, dirt around everywhere, animals, clutter that I was able to handle that really a whole lot better than I did in the past, pre-recovery, pre-discovery, you know, I used to be really internally impatient about it while looking outwardly patient while inside, I'm just kind of fuming and boiling and that's because I'm making it all about me and where I'm in convenience. But I didn't really feel inconvenienced at all. I really found that I was taking stock of how great it is just having these folks around that they wanted to be here at our place to enjoy it. Yeah. You know, and honey, one of our family members, I didn't tell you this before, but she said to me that she noticed a difference in you from years ago when you would come to family gatherings and you kind of, you would kind of keep busy and doing your own thing and you would kind of separate yourself from the family and not really engage and see look, she noticed that that was way different now and you were very engaged with the family and she was just like a little bit blown away by it. Well, then I will humbly accept that affirmation that things are different. So folks, if you wanted to know if recovery works, it does right out of the mouths of one of my relatives, apparently, right. So here we are right on the heels from last week's episode where we had our interview with Steve Shields with unashamed, unafraid podcast and he did such a remarkable job of bringing forth the idea of breaking the power and stronghold of shame through the telling of our story. Yeah, I felt it was a really great interview because I got to hear from another man in recovery kind of the way he felt about things, about his wife and about his life right after discovery and it was a little bit shocking to me to hear some of the things that he said and think about maybe that was similar to how you felt about things and it gave me a little bit of insight that, you know, I'm not alone as a betrayed wife in sealing the things that I did through your discovery and disclosures. And so it was just comforting to know that other men go through the same thing that you have gone through and they can also recover. And so, yeah, I really enjoy the interview. And be looking in the future, we're going to probably announce it again, but we're going to be Stephen's guests on his show coming up soon here toward the end of the year. So we're really looking forward to continuing our relationship with his ministry as well because what I find that I'm very fond of is the clear understanding that there are other voices podcasting on this topic out there and we are not in competition with them. When we are speaking the same language and giving the same message of hope and strength and connectivity that comes through Christ that we are all on the same side. We are on the side of Christ and God gets the glory and people give help. Amen for that. And so that is going to be our topic for today. We're going to talk more about shame and guilt and what the difference is. I did you even know that there's a difference? You know, Emily, we have spent a better part of the last month talking about our new Patreon page, but we really haven't done it justice to let you know exactly what that's about. So Emily, you are here to sort of illuminate for us what it is that the Patreon page is about and maybe the different levels of partnership that would be helpful for the future. Yeah. So a Patreon page, it sounds a little funny, but it really means patron, which just really means partner, it means somebody who links arms with us to help further this ministry that we're in of helping other couples find hope and healing in their marriages. So Patreon is a platform that we utilize as a creator to connect ourselves and our resources with our audience. And you guys in our audience, you know us pretty well by now, if you've been listening for a while, but we don't really know we do. So we would like to connect with you on a deeper level that we can do that on our Patreon platform. So if you head on over to beyondbrokenvowels.com/partner, you can go ahead and join for free as our Patreon partner, but you do have the opportunity to do a little bit extra. So we have three tiers that we're offering to those who want to partner with us. Our first tier is our loyal listeners and for less than a cup of coffee at $5 a month, so you just want to say thank you. This lets us know that you love our podcast and you want to see it continue. At this tier, you're going to get access to our private stream on Patreon, where we're going to post monthly updates and articles, occasional behind-the-scenes content and things like that. You can chat with us in our Patreon community, and you can also receive our insider's weekly newsletter. You'll also get regular prayers specifically for you and a warm feeling for doing something good. We love it. And then our next tier is for our faithful friends. For less than a movie ticket per month at $10, we just want to say that those of you who partner with us at this tier are amazing. This tier helps us with editing, research, and production costs. Our goal is to transition into our ministry soul time and create exclusive content to help you grow as we grow, and we're so grateful for you at this level. The perks that you receive at tier 2 level is everything from tier 1, plus you'll get a free gift from last, which is our brand new e-book called "Nine Steps to Healing from Sexual Betrayal" for couples who want to stay married. Our third tier is for ministry multipliers. That's $20 a month, and we so appreciate you at this level. This tier is for those of you who want to connect with us personally, and you also feel led to help us get to the next level of our ministry, where we can expand our reach with audacious goals for things like full-time coaching, speaking engagements, course building, books, and weekend healing retreats. And so the tier 3 perks for you guys is everything from tiers 1 and 2, plus a monthly live Q&A with Johnny and I. So if you have been helped in any way by listening to our podcast, if you have been blessed, if you have been touched, we would love for you to lock arms with us, become our partner, and help us expand our influence around the world in order to get these resources into the hands of people who need it. So go ahead and check our Patreon page out at beyondbrokenvowels.com/partner. That's beyondbrokenvowels.com/partner. Thank you, Emily, so much for taking the time to illuminate all the different tiers so which folks can make a choice to partner with us. If you have been listening to our podcast on a regular basis and we hope that you are, you are likely working hard to stay married after porn-fueled infidelity. One of the challenging areas that needs to be dealt with in the recovery process is shame and guilt. But many times shame and guilt are used interchangeably, as though they are the same. Do you know that there is a difference? If so, what is it? So join us today for our conversation on the difference between shame and guilt and how one of these is actually helpful for us as we move forward in our healing process. But before we get going on that, Emily, would you please open us up in prayer? Yes, I would be honored. Heavenly Father, we just want to say thank you for being who you are. You are magnificent. You are amazing. You are a wonderful God and we just want to adore you and worship you and just say thank you for all that you've done for us to connect us to yourself and to connect us to each other. And so, Lord, as we talk today about guilt and shame and what this means and how to overcome them, we ask Holy Spirit to be here with us, to lead us and guide us, and to all wisdom and knowledge, and we ask a blessing on those who are listening today and Jesus' fame. Amen. Amen. Emily, thank you so much for doing that. So necessary for us to get into the right frame of mind by asking God to be a part of our conversation. Yes. Okay, guys. So here we are. We're talking about shame and guilt today, and I just wanted to start off right away with a great quote that we found from Brene Brown in her book, Erin Greatley. And she says, "Shame is a focus on self. Guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is, I am bad. Guilt is, I did something bad. Guilt says, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Shame says, I'm sorry, I am a mistake." Wow, well, those differences are pretty clear, and we've built a list here of several of the differences, including some of those, but we're expanding on the differences between guilt and shame, and we just want to run through those real quickly. So guilt is helpful, shame is not helpful. Guilt is necessary, shame is destructive. Guilt includes others, shame isolates us from others. Guilt is about our actions. Shame is about who we are. Guilt focuses on the other person, i.e. the one we've wronged. Shame focuses on ourselves. Guilt drives us toward God. Shame separates us from God. Yeah, okay, so we're going to go ahead and go through these a little bit more in depth. Right. Stink spanned on them a little bit. Yeah. Just one on the top, maybe a little bit on purpose, kind of started in a shocking way. Guilt is helpful? Yeah, helpful, guilt, wow, I never thought of it that way before. So go ahead, Johnny, and tell us, how can guilt be helpful? Without an understanding of guilt, how do we know what to correct? If guilt didn't exist, we wouldn't know that we needed to do anything differently. We would just continue on our merry way, thinking that all is good. Until we become aware, one way or another, to somebody telling us, or maybe we have an internal conscience, the Holy Spirit tells us that, you know, hey, wait a minute, that kind of wasn't right. We get the opportunity to make a change when necessary, and change always helps us grow. Yeah, it can hurt, but it is helpful. Right. Shame, on the other hand, isn't helpful because it keeps us stuck where we are in some really destructive thought and behavior patterns based on lies that we've told ourselves, possibly for our entire lives. Boom. Right. For example. Well, like Bernay and Bernay Brown's quote there was one that really struck deep for me that shame says that I'm sorry, I am a mistake. And that is exactly how I felt about myself for pretty much my entire life, leading up to discovery. There was really more of a subconscious thought in my older years, but when I was younger, I remember I have these vivid memories of me throwing these fitful rage filled temper tantrums as a young child between five to eight years old, where I would just go off the deep end screaming at the top of my lungs in my house with my family around. Nobody loves me. Nobody cares for me. They would be better off for everybody if I were dead. Think about that. For somebody that young, yeah, we have grandkids around that age and I just can't even imagine them doing that, having that view of themselves that they're so worthless. Yes, it's so hard and it takes such a long time to unwrap that, which will, I'm getting a little ahead, but we'll talk a little bit about that later because it just sets so deep. Okay, so the next one is guilt includes others and shame isolates us from others. Okay, so here's one that I want to ask you then. So how does guilt include others? I mean, if I'm guilty, where's the other person? Well, usually our guilt comes from something that we do against another person. Somebody steals something that belongs to someone else. That guilt includes another person. Based on my side of the equation, it looked like me putting you, Johnny, and our marriage above God. I placed you on a pedestal and I poured myself and everything I thought I was into being your wife and a mom. And so that was where I got my identity rather than getting it from Christ. I knew I was his child and that my identity was in him, but I was acting more like I was your wife above all else. Right. And I remember when that realization came to you, you communicated that it was quite painful to you, but when you repented of it, that it was really quite freeing for your recovery moving on. Yeah, absolutely. It was something that I loved to admit, you know, it was what I had poured my entire adult life into. And so to admit that that was in some way wrong, even though I knew that your infidelity wasn't my fault. I did have some things that God wanted to deal with me on. And that was one of them, you know, placing you above God in many instances in my life. So the other person my guilt included was gone. That's so good. Thank you so much for your vulnerability and sharing that with us. But in contrast to that, shame isolates us from others. How shame isolates us from other people is that we really kind of internalize. We separate from others because of the way we feel about ourselves. Again, as in that Brene Brown quote, we're attaching I am statements to ourselves. I'm a bad person, and I don't deserve to be around other people. Probably the most notable one that I know of in recovery is if anyone really knew who I was or what I was or what I am, right, that they would not want to be around me. They would not want to know me. And from my perspective, it was that fear of being disowned, that fear of just being set aside, marginalized, you're not important anymore. And it's better if I just keep my distance from you, you know, there's there's that inherent fear. So when I'm living in a place of shame, I am isolating myself from the potential to be loved by others, to be accepted by others and to be built up by others. And for a betrayed life, shame is a reality. I actually at first didn't think that I had any shame because I wasn't the one who committed the offense, right? So I was not connecting that with my own shame. Although after the denial phase of my grief was over, I realized that I did feel shame. I felt actually embarrassed about my situation. I felt ashamed that I was such a fool that I didn't see it, that I didn't recognize the flat, the red flags, or if I did, that I talked to myself or allowed you to talk me into believing something that wasn't true. And so that was very shameful for me to think that maybe I had something to do with your continuing acting out, which was not true at all. I learned later, but my initial response to what happened was to have shame and to isolate myself. I remember that I didn't want to go to church for several months. I didn't want to show my face. I didn't want people to feel pity for me. If for some reason that they knew about it, I knew that you had told a few people at church. And so I didn't want to sit there thinking, are they looking at me thinking, maybe that I was not a good enough wife, that I wasn't able to keep my man happy and he strayed because of my lack. And so I didn't want to even deal with that. So I didn't want to go to church. I didn't want to get out in public. I didn't want to do my job. I was self-employed, but I didn't want to pursue my career because I was just so full of shame. Right. It seemed to me just by what you described, the shame for you was really mostly attached to who else knew about it. And I remember, early on, after discovery, and as we start moving through the process, you were keeping a running list on your phone about who I had told, because those who have been listening to our podcast from the beginning heard me tell everybody that I feel really in my element when I'm talking to people about what's going on with me. But when it came to my addiction, I just wasn't sharing all of it with everybody. Sharing enough transparency and enough about me to let people think that I am being transparent and vulnerable without really going into the deep stuff. But that came naturally for me. Not something quite so natural for you. And so you had this list, okay, who knows? So I would come home and say, well, I told so and so about this today and you would pull out your phone and, you know, okay, this one goes down on the list and then the list got to be pretty darn extensive and is like, okay, who doesn't know? Right. Right. But by then, by the time the list got that big, I was getting more comfortable with being in public and not being so ashamed, knowing that I wasn't alone, realizing that this was something that affects many, many people, many, many couples. And so it helped me to realize that it wasn't anything that I needed to be ashamed of because that was going to keep me from moving forward in my healing. Yes. And it seems that again, what I'm hearing from you is what really broke that cycle of shame for you was the truth. And probably some of the most paramount to those truths was that my infidelity and my addiction was not your fault. Correct. That you didn't cause it? Evil. You didn't bring it into the marriage. You're her? I did that. And so really that just correct me if I'm wrong is really kind of what was at the heart for you, really being able to let that shame go, that part of it. Yeah. Just realizing that it wasn't my fault. There was nothing I could have done to prevent it. There was nothing I could have done to stop it. And even though I realized now that there were things that I overlooked and that I swept under the rug and I just didn't really want to look at, I didn't want to face, and made excuses for all of that together and still not a reason for me to feel shame. It was all something that, like you said, you brought into the marriage. Right. Absolutely. Okay. For the sake of time, we should probably get moving forward. This is also good and you and I could talk about this for a really long time. So guilt is about our actions and shame is about who we believe ourselves to be. And that's where we really tend to get the whole thing backwards and upside down is that we think that what we do is who we are and that's not true. For me, getting to the understanding that I'm not a bad person, but I did do bad things was such an important part of my recovery to learn to separate that because I had been attaching my actions and my identity together. They were synonymous with me. And when we talk about identity through the lens of God and how He sees us, what we do is irrelevant to who we are to God. We can't do enough bad for Him to love us less and we can't do enough good for Him to love us more. Right. And so, yes, just make that distinction between our behaviors and who we are is very important. Correct. Absolutely correct. And so continuing on, guilt focuses on the other person, i.e. the one we've wrong, while shame focuses on ourselves. One of the things that I can think of the most where guilt helps us focus on the other person is the apology. Yeah, apology, right, because when you have guilt because of something you have done or not done, an apology is warranted. Right. Will you become aware of the wrong doing? And then that's where the guilt comes from and you got to do something with it. If you hold on to that guilt and don't deal with it like make amends or apologize, then it's got to turn to shame. And it's going to turn to shame because of what you're not getting out of yourself. And so making that healing apology and we love to use our resource that we created called the healing apology, where that apology from the mouth of the one who's doing the apology to the one that's being apologized to makes it so much about the other person and takes the focus off of ourselves while accepting the responsibility for our actions and making an attempt to connect with how the other person feels, how they must feel about that action and leaving ourselves vulnerable to be spoken back into after that is such a powerful and moving thing. It can be uncomfortable. It can be difficult and even downright frightening. But then the other part of it is that we get the opportunity to ask forgiveness. Even when we don't feel like we deserve it. That's part of the healing apology is doing the asking and then let the other person decide whether they're in a place where they're ready to forgive and they may not be or they might be ready. You know, we just don't know unless we give them that opportunity. And then the last part of that healing apology, the coup de gras is praying together that even if you're not completely in agreement or forgiveness was not given, the one doing the apology can ask, can I pray for you right now? And that's the opportunity for you to take the hand of the one that you have wronged. And again in the context of infidelity here that we're talking about with couples is that you take the hand of your spouse and you take them to God and you just ask him for help. You ask him to fix what doesn't seem to be fixable. You ask him to heal what doesn't seem to be able to be healed to make sense out of the sense let's hit can be such a powerful and connecting time and even in the midst of betrayal. It's true intimacy. Yeah, yes, it is. It's connective. Isn't that mind blowing? Yeah, it is. Just to think that you can experience true intimacy in the middle of great pain. I love it. So good. Yes, and to bring it home, guilt drives us towards God and shame separates us from God. So how does guilt drive us toward God? You know, Emily, you and I have addressed this on a previous episode where we talk about that it's godly sorrow that leads us to repentance. And I think that's even in the show that we do the healing apology. Um, you know, worldly sorrow says, I'm sorry because I got caught and I'll do whatever it takes to get out of trouble. Godly sorrow that brings about repentance says that, you know what, I totally got this wrong. What do you need from me and allows us to take it to God, confess it and moves us forward to a place where we can repent and start the healing process. Right. And on the flip side, shame separates us from God because like we said earlier, it's isolating. We isolate ourselves so we can't even bring ourselves before God because of our shame. That chasm that we create from holding on to shame, you know, it doesn't have to be. We can offer our shame to God and ask him to take it from us. Yes, Emily. And one of the more powerful isolation statements says that I am not worthy. And that really touches it. Why we don't take those things to God because what separates us from God is that we don't feel that we're worthy to come before Him. In our Christian world, we consistently get it wrong when we feel that we have to clean up our act in order to be able to go to God. Yeah. He didn't die for our cleaned up act. He died for our filthy rags, our senior pastor taught this at Christmas one time. What is the most loving gift that you could give to Jesus at Christmastime? And the answer that he told us was that it's your sin because that's why he sacrificed himself. That's why he endured the torture, the scorn and the pain to go to the cross was to purchase your sin. Right. So stop pretending that you're going to clean yourself up in order to go to God and give him the greatest gift that he's asking for your sin. Just give it to him. Just do it. Right. So friends, I just wanted to tell you right now that over my lifetime, I have had this overshadowing sense of shame in my life because I hid so much of my actions and who I was from others. Those of you who have heard me tell my story before, understand that I recreated myself in the image of others so that I could find acceptance from them, never really coming to a full understanding of who I really was as Johnny. The result of all of that hiding who I was and the things that I've done without getting them out and confessing them and talking to them produced so much shame in my life. I was guilty of so much, but I was not able to unload it. I was just holding on to it because I didn't want to be exposed. This sometimes can be extremely difficult to navigate your way through. So if you like what we're saying and understand and resonate with it just a little bit, but you're right on the edge of trying to figure out how to make that happen, let me suggest that you book a coaching call with me. You can go to coaching.beyondbrokenvowels.com and book a call and get on my schedule and we can help you get started today on understanding how shame creeps in, what it's doing to you right now and how you can unload shame moving forward. Yes. And for the wives out there who have felt so shame over what your husband has done, I've been there and I didn't work through that shame. So I can help you do that as well. If you would like that help from me, book a call at coaching.beyondbrokenvowels.com and I would love to walk through that process with you. Yes. That's coaching.beyondbrokenvowels.com. So Johnny, this whole thing is really a spiritual battle. Yes, it is. Our fight isn't against flesh and blood, it's against the powers and the principalities and the dark forces of this world. And so we have to remember that even ourselves, we're not our own enemy. You know, you're not my enemy, I'm not your enemy, but I'm not my enemy and you're not your enemy. Right. We have an enemy out there that we're battling and he has been overcome by the blood of Jesus, but we still have to resist his influence in our lives. Right. So that's something that comes from our enemy and it's called condemnation. Condemnation says I'm beyond help and always will be and that comes from the pit of hell. That is a lie. Condemnation is not from God, but on the flip side, conviction is from God. Yes. Conviction says I got it wrong, but with God's help, I'll get it right next time. People who are in shame tend to feel the condemnation rather than the conviction because conviction is good and healthy and comes from God where condemnation is destructive and comes from Satan. Right. Right. You know, we went through great pains to say the same thing over again repetitively about shame and guilt. One is good, the other's bad. We understand that guilt can be helpful and that shame is destructive. All that is to drive home a point. So I thought maybe I'd bring free scriptures up to really drive that point home as well. So here's our word for today. First one comes out of John 3 16, but I'm going to add verse 3 17 to it as well for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Ah, but move on to 17. I love this part. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. So beautiful and it's so good. And it shows us who we are as one loved by God so much that he gave us his son. And the next verse shows us that he has a plan for us. In Psalm 139 verses 13 through 14, it says, "For you created my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. I know that full well." So he had a plan for us from before the beginning of time. He thought about us. He knew us. It's so comforting. Yes, absolutely. And our last verse for today comes to us from Ephesians 2 10 and says, "For we are God's handiwork created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do." You think about when you tie all those together that he loved us so much that he gave us his son not to condemn us, but to save us, but then to go way back further before we were even born. He gave thought to us. He formed us. He's like, "You know what? When I make Emily, this is what I imagine she's going to do. I'm going to give her this purpose, so I'm going to gift her in these ways, and God gives us the ability to do what he has planned for us and given us in our purpose." And that's what it tells us that he prepared that work for us in advance. So here's the hope. With that much forethought going into each one of us who are fearfully and wonderfully made by God, we can stand on that truth and we can shine that light so that we can send those lies that we tell ourselves back to the darkness where they belong. And we don't need to allow that to creep back into our lives. Will it sometimes? Yes, because that enemy wants to push back. The person that we used to be tries to be that person again. All memory and things that are launched eat have a tendency to be really sticky and difficult to get rid of, but we will always have the Word of God. The grass withers and the flowers fade, but the Word of God endures forever. Amen. Johnny, would you go ahead and pray us out? Yes, I will. Father, thank you so much for giving us this time together. Thank you, Lord, for giving us insight into shame and guilt. One is helpful and useful and the other one is destructive. One reaches out to others and includes you, Father, and the other one isolates us from you and others. Can separate us from you forever if we do not receive your son, Jesus, for salvation and make him Lord of our life each day. We are grateful, Father, that Holy Spirit walked with us through this entire process. We pray, Lord, that you will shine light where there is darkness, that you will send things that need to go back to the dark, to the pit of hell, to Satan's lap. He can keep it. We don't need shame any longer. Father, give us the strength to stand on your Word and the salvation that comes through Jesus. Father, we pray for our listeners who are hearing this, Lord, that you would set this deep in their hearts, this identity of who they are in your son, Jesus, that they would find their strength and hope in you as they hear your Word spoken through our mouths. And we ask all this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. All right, friends, we would love for you to spend some time examining the areas where you are feeling some guilt and some shame and invite the Lord into the process. Yes. And we also invite you to take steps to make apologies where necessary. And we highly recommend, once again, our healing apology worksheet. You can also listen to that episode, which is episode 10, titled When Sorry is Not Enough. And you can get that resource by emailing us to support@beyondbrokenvowels.com and request the healing apology, and we will send that to you again, that support@beyondbrokenvowels.com. And the last thing that we would like for you to consider doing is ask God to help you to trust what He says about you, and learn to trust your identity in Christ. So until next time, marriage is redeemed, hearts renewed, on Beyond Broken Bowels podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. And before you go, if this podcast encouraged you and you're feeling some hope for today, please share this show with someone else you know who's going through a similar situation and needs to know they're not alone. One of the best ways you can help us reach more people is to leave us a five-star written review on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss out on upcoming episodes. And as always, we would love to hear from you with questions and comments. Just email us at support@beyondbrokenvowels.com. As you walk out this journey one day at a time, may the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May He lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING]
