(upbeat music) - Hi there, I'm Michelle Frost, the host of the FitMind FitBody podcast. Welcome to the Delirious West series, where we follow everyday runners preparing for the Delirious West 100 and 200 mile events in April 2025. As the name suggests, things are about to get a little delirious. In this series, we'll journey alongside some incredible individuals who are pushing their limits on West Australia's stunning trails. Each episode, we'll check in with one of our dedicated athletes to hear about their training progress, the challenges they're facing, and the victories that are keeping them moving forward. Whether you're gearing up for your first ultra, or simply love inspiring stories of perseverance, you are in the right place. So lace up your sneakers, pop in your earbuds, and let's get delirious together. (upbeat music) Today on FitMind FitBody, I am introducing you to another one of our brave athletes who's going to join us on another series for people wanting to do an extraordinary adventure in many ways, I find. But the Delirious West series that we're starting, Glen Smitherham, did I just do you on, that I just do a terrible job with your son? - No, no, no, it's wonderful. Smitherham, yes. - Wonderful. That is exactly the way it's done. Welcome, Glen. - Thank you. - It's so good to have you. 'Cause I think you're a bit of an expert on these as well. So I'm kind of excited to talk to you about it. But before we get into why you're doing this and all of your background around it, around running, let's feel a little bit back, go back a little bit and talk about who you are and where you grew up with that kind of thing, apart from running the stuff, who you are away from running, if you like. - At the moment, there's not a lot of, not a lot away from running, but. - What about before? - Well, yes, I grew up in South of Perth in the hills. - Okay, yeah. - Yeah, I used to explore the bush a little bit when I was young, I suppose, but there was never, I was always sporty, but never running wasn't really. I didn't even know it was a sport then, other than sports kind of all set school. - Can you remember what you thought about it at school? Were you like, I don't like that? - Well, the shorter stuff, the athletics at school I loved, I was always doing the 100 meters in the jar, I did everything, basically. So I really enjoyed that, other than that, I played soccer. Probably, well, I'm not sure, I started a very young age and played through teenage years. That was really the only formal sport. - Okay. - So the, with the athletic side at school I did, I did the school carnivals and all those things, but I didn't really take it any further than that. - Yeah, and when you left school, what did you do? What kind of work did you get into? - I'm a podiatrist. - Ah, I didn't know that, there you go. - I only do, I probably do about eight to 10 hours of podiatry a week now. - Yeah. - So I've sort of gradually, I still plan on keeping it in there, but I only do a few more few mornings a week, basically. - Oh, that's interesting. So you left school and went to university and studied to be a podiatrist, and that's kind of the career path you've found out. - No, I left school, I went to do, I studied computing. - Oh, okay. - And didn't actually finish doing that. I loved it at the time, but it was more back then, you know, just sitting in front of a computer and writing programs, it wasn't, it didn't appeal to me as a job. - Yeah. - So I went back to get a better score and then went to uni and did podiatry, after, you know, after stopping the podiatry. - The computer. - The computing after a couple of years, yeah. - Yeah, oh, so but it was all still in there last sort of, early 20s when you started in the world of podiatry. - I see. - Oh, yes, yeah, yeah. - Oh, wow. So have you practiced for yourself, or have you mostly, what have you gone in? - No, I did for a little while, have a practice, but I didn't really want to work weekends and evenings. So I preferred to work for someone else. - Wow, so, yeah. - So I work for someone else now, yeah. - I find, as a runner, like, I should have probably gone to a podiatrist a lot earlier than I did. But it's been quite interesting. - That's a standard. That's pretty much everyone, yeah. - No, they seem like quite useful. Like, because we use our feet so much and running, it just seems quite logical. And, no, I think I went, I don't know, maybe five or six years ago. And I remember thinking, I really should have come a lot sooner than this, because it makes sense. Because it's something that we're using all the time and, you know, running. And it's really important that they stay in good health. - Yes, yeah. - 'Cause we do see some pretty messed up feet in running, especially with the longer events. - We're just ignore the toenails, 'cause that's not really relevant. It's more about the little bones and muscles. 'Cause I don't think your toenails ever, are ever nice again with running. That's what I find. - Yeah, mine, mine. Early on, when I first started doing ultras, I lost a lot. Like, to be a regular occurrence. But probably the last couple of years, in the last year or so, I think I've lost any, I'm just, I think I've gotten better at prep and. - Oh, wow. - Maybe I'll do my shoes. Do my shoes are better in socks. - I just thought it was like something to do with this shape of your foot, or the shoes that you wear or something. - Lots of factors. But simply, yeah, making sure that you've got the right socks and shoes. And the shoes are done up properly. - Yep. - That can make a big difference. - What is the proper done up shoe look like? - Yeah, just make sure the foot's not locked in. It's not moving around, sliding around, 'cause then there's gonna be more pressure. - And more banging on the, that kind of repetitive banging. - Yeah, and there's also fatigue, we'll cause some of the muscles to lift the toes, help to try and help lift the foot. And that will cause impact as well. But yeah, just making sure that the shoes and socks are all done, right? It just makes a big difference. - Who knew we're gonna get into pediatry 101? - Yeah. Now there's a, one of the US basketball, old coaches, John Wootle, he's one of the more faced, considered one of the best. His first session every year, even with the best athletes, that was always that this is how you do, you should put your socks on and this is how you do your shoes up. Um, it makes a difference. - That's the only one. - So especially in a sport like basketball, you know, a player out with a blister or something, especially these days, is worth a bit. - Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. I never thought about it like that. - He does that every single, well, he did that. Every single year, that was the first lesson they learned. Then they got the ball and started doing the same thing. - All right, so do you have a family? What does your personal life look like without getting to be good for you? - Yeah, yeah, wife and two girls. 21 and 23. - Love you. - The youngest, and she's off at work at the moment, so hoping she gets her license soon, 'cause... - That's always good. - All the time. - Yep. - And the eldest, she's actually unwell, so she's got her chronic illness. - Oh, no. - She's got myoldic encephalomyelitis, so basically she has been bedridden for a couple of more than a couple of years now. - Oh, wow, go ahead. - Yeah, so she needs full time care, and my wife, so she stays at home, and mostly I'm at home as well, caring clearly, but she's my wife's also a little bit unwell with chronic illness as well, so yeah, there's lots of resting down at home. - Lots of challenges going on as well. Yeah. - So it's good to be able to work from home a lot, so that's very handy, being quite flexible. - Yeah, that does sound good. Wow, what an interesting life you have. Running. We weren't into it when you're a kid so much, you know, it was just sort of everyday, how did it become a big part of your life, because it really is quite a big part of your life now? - It is, yes. I had the usual not doing, you know, break from sport for a while, for a few years, not doing much, and it was probably just after I'd finished uni, I wanted to get back into doing a few things, I had a couple of friends and doing a Rogaine's and an adventure races. So sort of got, started cycling and yeah, doing a few adventure races, mountain bike races and paddling like they have on descent over here. So I was enjoying doing those, but not doing more than just a 10K run, you know, training run, and then in 2010, I think it was, I fell on my head and now I'm off for one. - Okay, yes, no, I had a fall. I'd gotten up early one morning after, so the day before I'd been to the doctor and had a, well, I can't even board I had, but one of the things I had was a tetanus shot from a for a cat scratch. - Yep. - And so my foot was very sore when I woke up at four in the morning and I went to get a pan at all. And I think what happened is I dropped it and then when I stood up after picking it up, I passed out and just fell back and hit my head on the tiles and then a few minutes later, my wife came in and found me in a pool of blood. - Oh, no. - So that needed, you know, a bunch of staples and a bit of superglue to put their head together. - How? - And after that, I had constant headaches and my blood pressure, I went way up, which still needs to be controlled. - Still is a result of that, of the full? - Yes, yeah, yeah. At the time, they said it was post concussion syndrome. And after, at that time, I was training for a multi sport race so I tried to get started again and I felt really unsteady on the bike. But the running, I found after a few runs, made the headaches better. And then sort of ran a bit more and ran a bit further. And I didn't want the headaches, so I just kept running. - They turned into both, go. - Yes, so eventually, after building up the running arm, yeah, I ran an ultra. - Wow, so you decided the multi sport stuff, especially because of the bike, by the sound of it, because the balance was a little bit. - No, I think I just enjoyed the, I think the once I started running and doing the ultras, it was, I still did ride for a while, just with friends. But a lot of the, I mean, for instance, the paddling I enjoyed and I did get out occasionally and do that, but it was quite stressful the year I did do the Avon descent, looking at the, every day, waking up, looking at the river levels and thinking, am I going to be jumping out and dragging my boat or am I going to be able to paddle the river? And yeah, I think the, I just sort of moved on from the multi sport ones. - Yeah. - And I'm actually thinking right now, I want to do, I want to get back into a couple of road gains again, and if we were short adventure races starting up here again, I'd probably do one. - Okay. - But yeah, I prefer the running. I get, especially with something like Delirious, I get the adventure that similar feeling that I got from the adventure races more so than a, a 50K or a 100K that the really long ones get the full, you get the full adventure. - It is, it is a bit like a journey, isn't it? That's, I've only done it. I've only, it's people done 100K, 103, 'cause it became matters. (laughs) So, and that's what I really felt too that, that it was a journey, like it was a big story, just in the whole experience. - Yeah, you go through, even, well, when you said Justin, I said even 100Ks, yeah, you go through, you can hit the wall many times, but also there are, you know, you could be, probably not so much with 100Ks, but you could be towards the end of it and thinking, I'm running better than I did at the start. I know that's happened with Delirious, you know, in the last day, you think, well, I'm actually feeling better than I did, you know, halfway through day one, so. - How did you find out about, you know, these longer runs? How did you meet people who were doing it? How did you, 'cause you don't just fall into these things. - Yes. - Do you remember? - I can't recall how I found the first one. It must have been, actually, yeah, it must have been from somebody, when I was doing the adventure racing in the rotating and sort of orienteering as a sort of a group of people, and I'm sure it would have been just somebody mentioned it. Sign up for one, and then you sign up for another one, and it was, I don't know if it was my first or second, there was, we used to have a really good race, the Cap Ultra, yeah, and I was doing the 75K one year, and that's when I met Sean. - Yes. - And so. - It's all uphill since then. - Yes. (laughs) Yes. - Amazing. When was the first time you did one of the, of Sean's Ultra Series races? - Well, basically from the start, he did a couple of unofficial, there was one here, I live very close to the Yabaru Trail, so usually one of the race directors for that, unfortunately this year with family being all unwell, I wasn't able to make it. He did an unofficial 50K on the Yabaru, and that first one I helped out. And then a few of the, when he was then, as he developed others and had the ideas, I would often go out and go out with training runs and sort of help with figuring out where the course is gonna be for some of them, yeah. - Wow, what's always struck me is just how tight you guys over there in Western Australia are in the Ultra Running community. Like you're always out there helping each other with different things, whether it's a training run or volunteering on a course or being a support person for someone who, you know, you just always, it feels like the community there is so, is really tight and they really all help you. - I think you've got just the right, probably have just the right size. You know, if the community was twice as big, maybe it wouldn't be the same. So we must have sort of that sweet spot of just the right number of people where you know most of the people and you get to know people pretty easily. Whereas you may, I know I've been to some non, ultra series races and other races where there are so many more people and you look around and you go, I recognize maybe that person or one or two, better an ultra series one, you're not just recognized, you'll know most of them. - Yeah, so it's a bit like you know, going out for a run with your friends. - Yes, yes, yes. - Which is lovely, I love it. So of all these races that you've done, well, tell me some of them that you have, you know, really enjoyed that are stuck in your mind a little bit about them. - Okay, well, when I first started, I did a couple of years, I think it was when it was actually pretty good over here where we didn't have, you know, I love all the options now, but it was nice to have just, you know, the next race is three months away rather than last week. - Yeah. - So I had a, I think we had for a while the, was the cap ultra, the six inch, of which I've done quite a few of those. That's just under, that's about 46 to 47 Ks. The WTF ultra, which is the water Australia on foot. - Which sounds like a square, like you're a toner square. - Yeah, it's a good name, it's the best ultra name. I've done, I think I've done six times the 100 miler and it's the 50 miler I've done once there. Pretty much all of Shaun's at least once, some of them a few times. - Wow. - But yeah, Delirius is definitely the one, sort of like a plan to keep going back as many, you know, as often as I can, for as long as I can. - Why is that? - Well, I mean, a lot of it is the adventure. And I know every, yeah, every year is gonna be different and you still get, I mean, the second time I ran it, I had a tough, very tough race when I had a section for, I think it was 50 miles when I was struggling and throwing up a lot and then came good. And then I strained my quad and could only walk for a day and then my hip, I had lots of little needles, but it was really satisfying finishing it, especially, you know, there was a few times when I thought I wouldn't. - Yeah. - So that's a huge part of it. It's just the adventure and the sense of accomplishment. But to me, it's also, it's the week. It's my holiday. - Yes. - It's basically when I get to switch off and reset. So it's like when you switch your computer off and on again. - Yeah. - I imagine this is what they would feel like. You know, the computer would feel like after that. Because for the months after I'm still feeling sort of the effect and it sort of recharges me. - Oh, wow. - So if you gave me the option of you can have a week away in Bali or you can run Tlerius, choose Tlerius every time. - That's crazy. It's like, oh, wow, I had never really had the, you know, described like that. So I think that's fascinating. Also makes me want to do it. So well done. (laughing) - That's good. - The feeling you get when, I mean, there's a lot of people obviously are very nervous leading up to, you know, but especially the hour or so before the start, you can see a lot of tension. But once the race starts, most people just, they just look so relaxed. - Yeah. - Because you've got three or four days of not checking your phone, not answering emails, not the only thing you've got to do is get to the next aid station. - Yeah. - And that's nice. - So I know that it has quite generous cut-offs. Do you think that might seem accessible to many people as a result? - Yes, very accessible. - It's one that, you know, if you were to tell someone, I'm going to run 200 miles, even you tell them the time, they're going to say that's a bit crazy. But if you say like over four days, I'm going to hike that distance. Although if you're going to do that, you don't really get much sleep at all. But you could, you could do, you know, if you were able to get by without, you could hike the distance that a solid effort. So it's also the, you know, there's, you know, there's quite a lot of research with 200 miles being easier on the body than sort of the 100 mile distance. - Wow, that's interesting. - And when you look at the effects of fatigue, it sort of peaks around the 18 to 24 hours and then it starts to drop again. Sort of the graph, if you were to plot it, it comes back down. And from 34, five hours on, it's actually back down to what it was for, I'm trying to think exactly what it was, trying to make the graph up. Around that 10 to 12 to 15 hours. - Oh, wow. - You get obviously the mental fatigue, but because if you're able to sleep, and if you're able to eat. - Not to eat, it's bad. - Yeah, you can, you actually recover during the run, obviously, which most people won't do with 100 mile rest. It's just once you sort of start to finish. So I've definitely noticed that yeah, the impact, the physical impact of a 200 mile is less. Lasting mental fatigue, I did say it resets and you're your own. Now I feel a lot better afterwards, but the, for the weeks after you do want to nap every day, for sure. - You got to catch up on all that sleep you've missed out on. - Yes. - For me, that's probably the one thing that I would be the most concerned about, how I would deal with the lack of sleep. Like I could do one 24-hour period, but then that coming into that second, third, fourth day, whatever, committing. - My first year I really struggled. I tried to sleep. Then they said, you know, 24 hours in and it didn't work. And then I tried again, around 100 miles didn't work. I tried again. And I actually didn't get any proper, I was lying down and I was in the swag and I was out, you're lying down for, I think, you know, two hours at a time, but didn't actually sleep. And especially the third time I tried, I was worried. You know, when you start to panic, I can't sleep. - What's going to happen? - Better than you like to sleep. - Yeah. And then I actually, I was lying there and I recalled, I had recently seen a story about a Korean gamer who died from lack of sleep, which is not the thing you want to think of when you're struggling to sleep. And now I realized that that's probably more from all the energy drinks and stuff he had. - I think so. But I was 65 hours in before I actually got my first bed of sleep. And it was good. - Okay. - Having said that, I'm much better now. - I was going to ask that, how do you do that now? - I can get a good, I usually get 60 to 90 minutes when I try. - Okay. - But I do like the hallucinations. I would be disappointed if I did a race and didn't have any. - So I've heard that and I'm just like, what? - Like, I've heard a few people talk about the hallucinations, like in the backyard, outwards and things as well. - Most of them have been good that I've had. So usually it's something as silly. I think the first year I saw a chicken riding a goat through the forest and a couple of years ago, I thought I saw a baby whale strand and I was going to go rescue it. Lots of strange ones. And I've had a couple of scary ones as well. So I don't really want to get those. - Yeah, I've had them. But the animal ones are fun. - I could just imagine cartoons. Like in my head, it would turn into. - It looked like a cartoon. - Yeah. - Like, the whale was yellow and it looked like a, yeah, it looked like a cartoon whale. - Is it Alice in Wonderland or one of those fairy tales where the princess is walking into a forest and all of the animals come out and that's what I think of. So hopefully if that ever happens to me, that's the kind of one I'll have, not a scary one. I didn't want to, I wanted to also touch on, I should say that you're also a coach. So tell me how that came about. Tell us a little bit about your coaching. - It started, obviously the, just the enjoyment and the interest in running. I've always enjoyed reading about running and the training process. I had a few, I found when I was with the podiatry work, a few people with injuries I would, rather than 15 years ago, most podiatrists, you know, someone, a runner goes for podiatrists and they're going to be given orthotics. Not so much now, but which is good. They're certainly needed sometimes, but I found I was advising them more on training and training load and how to manage injuries that way. And then I had a couple sort of ask me to coach them for something. And then I started the coaching and started with just a one or two and gradually built the coaching up and backed off with the podiatry work. - Wow, so what is your coaching look like now? - It's good, it's very, yeah, quite a few, I've got quite a few gonna be running delirious. Always learning and trying, obviously trying to get better. And yeah, it's going along really well. So I've got, as I said, down to just doing a couple of mornings of the podiatry work and the great thing with the coaching, the being quite flexible with what I need to help out at home. So I can get up and do a six in the morning, I can do a little bit of the coaching, and then can help out. Then I can, if I want go for a run and then come back and do some, and I can be doing some at 10 at night. And so I'm quite flexible with sort of replying to people and most things you don't need, it's not like someone messes you and I've had times when someone's messaged me in the middle of a session saying what do I do here? But most of the time it's quite flexible with the timing. So yeah, I'm really, really enjoying it. - That's awesome. So do you have space or anything like that? Is it all online? - Yeah, yeah, a little bit. It's getting quite, I've got a very good, a nice number at the moment. And I could probably be in the position where I'm a few more and I'll start thinking about, I've got to put a cap of, I've got a number in my head of probably the most. I could do that at all. And that's, depending on, well, that's it, obviously allowing still for what I need to do at home and everything. - Yeah, of course. - But it's not a, it's certainly not a traditional job where you, I wouldn't want to count the hours. - Yeah. - Yeah, I spend sort of doing it. So I'm quite happy to do, to work more than I would otherwise. 'Cause I do it. - Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. I can put a link to any, I don't know if you use Facebook or if you use a website or what you use, I can put a link in the show that's. So yeah, I can put a link to it too. So if people are interested, they could go and have a look and check it out. Mind you, it doesn't sound like you could fit too many more in any way, but. - A few. - A few. - They could go and have a look. 'Cause especially when people are wanting to do some of these crazy things. But do you find that a lot of the coaching students that you have, do they tend to be people wanting to do ultra distances because that's sort of what your background is? - In the majority, yes. I still have quite a few that are marathon and building up. And sometimes it's, they're quite happy building up slowly and wanting to have a long-term plan. I wanted to do an ultra in a few years time. And then there are others that, you know, I've just started running and I want to do an ultra next week. - And what do you say to them? I'm glad. - I'm trying to obviously talk them out out of doing something too soon and have a more gradual build is obviously better. Yeah. - I've been surprised just how many people I've talked to in the last little bit. Especially on the podcast, you've gone from zero to, I don't know, running an ultra by the end of their first year of running. It seems quite like early, I mean, my 20s, that's not something that you've ever heard of. But now it just seems more common. - We had a, the ultra series had the, we had a couch to 200. It was a few years ago and it didn't, it actually was a fantastic thing because it got a lot of people. - A lot of intense support. - And as I mentioned before, it's probably, you know, in some ways because the generous cut off that 200 mile a, you know, there were, it wasn't, you know, some people were on the couch and some had run, they weren't, they weren't, I think the rules, you know, for getting in that, weren't to a runner. I can't remember if it was an ultra marathon before. - Yeah, mm-hmm. - It wasn't exactly, had to go from being a cat potato. - No, not on the couch and then it was, yeah, it was, well, it was originally a year. And then we, you know, because of, you know, with COVID and everything sort of, it took a while. But, yeah, we got, yeah, we got people there. So, and there's a lot of people in the community in the sport now that basically started through applying for that, so that's a huge positive. - I love it. That's awesome. - I really do. What are your hopes and desires for this upcoming delirious for your own event, for your? - For myself, I would like, I would like to have a quicker run than I have done. So this year, and I've got, I think low 70s is something I can sort of aim at. I had that on my mind last year, well, so this year, but with 40 degrees on day one. - Yeah, it was hot, I heard it. - Very quickly thought, no, I just want to finish it. - That's what I saw. - So back right off. And also, at that time, on my mind was, Sean had mentioned the night before that the following, you know, this next year will be April. So April sounds like a much better time to go for a quicker run. - Yeah, yeah. - And I'm hoping we get a little bit of rain, a little bit of, you know, a little bit of everything. - Yeah. - A short storm maybe in the right place. - Great. (laughing) - 'Cause we did have a, the 21 delirious was postponed to, or 20, it was postponed to October. And a lot of the course was flooded. - Wow. - And I loved it. I would do it in those conditions. That really felt like an adventurous. So what do you think it is in this, 'cause you've mentioned a number of times from the start to now, that desire for adventure? What do you think it is in you, in particular, that looks for that experience? - Not sure. (laughing) Yeah, I just, I've always, always enjoyed. I'm not sure, I haven't really thought about it myself much, but I've always enjoyed those sort of adventures and being, even to the point of being, you know, a little bit on the edge of being maybe lost or sort of I like, you know, I like that. I did a years ago, we went to Singapore for a holiday and my run the first morning, my goal was just to get lost. - Yeah. - And that actually felt, I mean, there is the safety, obviously, you can always just jump in a taxi and tell them to be in the hotel. But it's nice to be somewhere, you don't know and just not know where you are and just, yeah, that felt like an adventure. - Do you like exploring a little bit? You know, like, you don't know what's around the next corner. You don't know what you're going to be. - Yeah, I mean, I do, I mean, a lot of my runs, so I'll go off trail and I do enjoy sort of, yeah, just randomly go, okay, I'll go this way. There's no track here, but I'll see if I can find one or say, yeah, enjoy exploring and, and yeah, I don't really know what it is. I think it's just the-- - Something in your little workspace. - And that, you know, having, when you survive some of these adventures as well, when you survive them all, when that's why you're here, because you survived them all. There's that sense of accomplishment, which you've mentioned as well already. How could you feel about that? When you go in these races, do you set yourself a bit of a plan? I don't mean, I'm sure you do, well, I assume you do for the actual race, but in your training, you're a coach and everything. Do you do that for yourself? You set up, this is what my training plan looks like for the next six months, or I don't know how long about? - Yeah, so, I mean, I'm currently not, but I've had a coach previously, and it's, you know, I find it really helpful. And I, for myself, I set out more of a, I've got my, what I want to accomplish for the weeks and for the month, the phases, I'm quite flexible day to day. And I like that simply because, obviously, with the stress at home, I probably train, well, I do, I only add in my higher intensity sessions when I know I'm going to adapt from them. And if things are very stressful, then I'm better off just going for an easy run. So I don't do as much high intensity sessions as I otherwise would. So there's, there's sometimes when a whole week is simply just easy. - Right. - But that's not a bad thing for an ultra at all. So, I mean, I still work on all the right things, just to see an obstruction as much. And I tend to, I like take recovery on more on when the body demands it or when the circumstances demand it. So sometimes I will go a little bit longer before and then, you know, either need a recovery day because it's easy at home or need a recovery day because, you know, the fatigue starting to build. - Wonderful. - Yeah, and sometimes it's, it's, yeah, sort of, yeah, it's definitely more on demand than, okay, it's not like Monday is always my recovery day. But for a lot of people I coach, that's the way it is, but there's always that flexibility there to adjust when needed. Because just because you do a training session doesn't mean you're going to adapt positively from it. So, yeah. - So that's where it's important for us to be able to listen to our bodies, to be able to see how they're responding, how body responding, where we are. - Yes, yeah, I like to definitely think we need to listen to our body before we listen to our coach. - How do you, do any of your, any of the people that you coach say, like, how do I do that? Like, 'cause we talk on the podcast quite a bit. - It takes a while sometimes. - 'Cause it hurts, like running hurts and it just does, but is this a good hurt, or is this, you know, is this a building growing hurt, or is this a potentially an injury hurt? Yeah. - That's what sometimes we go, we have to make the mistake to really learn. And there are some people who, you know, they love, they see it, they have their training plan and they want, they want to get their green dots, green ticks and complete everything. - Yeah, I would be glad that. - And, sorry. - I'm like that, I have a coach, and yeah, if she sets me something, come hell or high water, I'd probably do it. Because I want to, I find, yeah, it's when, when somebody completes 100% of what I've set, I get a little bit worried. - If you do write about me. - It means that, yeah, it means that they're possibly not listening to their body. - Exactly. - There's maybe something simple as simple as, you know, I don't, you don't, you might not know why, but you might go, well, I didn't really want to do those little sprints today, for some reason, something felt a bit tight. - Yeah. - Don't do them. It doesn't mean you skip them all the time, but when your body's telling you something, you've got to listen. And if you then just move them to the next day or, well, something, most of the time, you'll end up doing completely, you know, the same as what you would have done in the training. You've done it, but you, it's a much safer way to do it. - Yeah, it's interesting. And it's something that I've, you know, I always struggle with that, that concept of listening to my body, because I also find that I'm a lazy runner. Like, I think I'm a lazy runner. People, like everyone else goes, whatever, you know, but you have that, we have conversations in our head. And a lot of what we do in running is in your head. I think we've learned a bit about that before. So if I'm, if I'm listening to my body, it's like, well, am I just being lazy now? Not wanting to do that, or am I, you know, I don't want the pain that I know that's going to happen if I have to do blah, blah, blah, or is it because I really can feel that handstring is pulling or whatever? - Yeah, that's the tricky part, knowing the difference. - Yep, gotta know yourself. And maybe that's why some of us are attracted to this longer and longer stuff, because it, most people I talked to on the podcast who do ultra distances talk about that, but a big part of the allure for it is to get to know yourself a bit more, 'cause the longer you're out there doing these things, the more you're experiencing what your body feels like under a stress and how you respond to it and what you can learn from it to take into rest of your life, which is fascinating, really. - Yeah, I know there's, I've seen people say that, you know, the ultra's and these longer races build character, but I don't believe that at all. - What do you think they build? - Muscle. (laughs) - I know, well, I think it reveals character. - Okay, oh, that's very, I like it all the way, yeah. - You know, everything gets stripped back. - Yeah. - 'Cause I, yeah, you do sometimes see some runners come in and maybe not have the best character, but they don't tend to stay around with the, with the ultra's. - That's interesting. - Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's really, really interesting as you see everything gets stripped back and you really do get to know yourself and how you're, yeah, how you're going to respond in certain different situations. And most people would say then you'd carry that through to everyday life, which is true, yeah. So, I mean, if you finished an ultra, you feel like you can pretty much do anything. - I thought I could do anything after my first five or 10K when I was 20, so I certainly, I think I can vividly remember running a 21K training run ready before I was going to do my first half marathon. I was like, I don't know, 26 or 27, but I was running from home to town. And it was that, that idea that I could take myself a distance that had only ever been done as far as I know by anybody. - It's not true, but in my head, with by car, you know, or weird people occasionally did it by the bike. But I, you know, here I was taking myself, you know, that whole distance into work under my own steam without using a bike or a car. And I just thought I could do any, and I still think after all this years, 25 years, later plus, I can still do anything. And I've done, yeah. So I think there isn't that empowering thing that it gives us when we do these hard things. Yeah, anyway. - Okay, go down these rabbit holes all day long. Glenn, it's been amazing. I'm really looking forward to following your journey along and to see how, you know, how you train as a coach, especially how you train to, you want to go a little faster than you've done before. So that in itself will be interesting to follow and see how you go with that. So thank you for inviting us along on your journey. I do appreciate it. And as I said, I'm really looking forward to, to playing along with you over the next few months. So thanks for being here and sharing. - Well, thank you very much. That's going to be exciting. - Thank you. And just like that, our journey begins. A huge thank you to all of our everyday runners for sharing their stories as they're stepping up to take on the delirious West 100 and 200 mile challenges and to you, our listeners, for joining us on this exhilarating adventure. Remember, it's not just about the finish line. It's about the journey, the community and those moments of clarity along the way. Keep rooting for our runners and stay tuned for their regular monthly check-ins to see how their training is unfolding. If you're enjoying this series, we'd love to hear from you. Why not leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends? Let's all get a little delirious together. And don't forget to subscribe so that you never miss an episode or an update. Connect with us on the website, on Facebook or on Instagram. We would love to hear your stories and support you on your running journey. Stay strong, stay motivated and keep pushing your limits. Until next time. (upbeat music) (bell ringing) [ Silence ]
