Wellness Exchange: Health Discussions
Psychedelics: New Hope for Depression Treatment Breakthrough?
(upbeat music) - Welcome to "Listen To." This is Ted. The news was published on Monday, October 14th. Today we're joined by Eric and Kate to discuss a fascinating topic. Eric, Kate, great to have you both here. - Thanks for having us, Ted. It's always a pleasure to be on the show. - Absolutely, Ted. I'm excited to dive into this discussion. Today we're discussing the use of psychedelics to treat depression. Recent research has shown promising results. Let's dive into the details. Eric, what are psychedelics and how are they being used in this context? - Well, Ted, psychedelics are a class of psychoactive compounds that are known for their mind-altering effects. We're talking about substances like psilocybin, which is found in magic mushrooms, LSD and DMT. These aren't your everyday pharmaceuticals, mind you. They're powerful substances that can induce profound changes in perception, mood and cognitive processes. Now, here's the kicker. Researchers are exploring their potential to treat conditions like treatment-resistant depression and various addictions. It's quite a leap from their reputation as recreational drugs, isn't it? - That's right. But it's crucial to understand that these aren't new discoveries. These substances have been used in ancient rituals for centuries, particularly in indigenous cultures. - I appreciate the historical context, Kate, but we need to be careful about romanticizing these substances. They may have been used in rituals, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're safe. - Oh, come on, Eric, I'm not romanticizing anything. I'm simply pointing out that there's a long history of human use. We're not diving into completely uncharted territory here. These substances have been part of-- - Interesting points from both of you. Kate, can you elaborate on the current state of research in this field? - Absolutely, Ted. The research landscape has really exploded since 2010. We're seeing some mind-blowing results, especially with psilocybin. Get this. Studies are showing remission rates of 30, 50% in patients after just one or two doses of psilocybin combined with psychotherapy. That's not just a little improvement. We're talking about people who've been struggling with depression for years suddenly feeling relief. It's like hitting a reset button on the brain. And it's not just depression. Researchers are looking at treating addictions, PTSD, you name it. We're on the cusp of a revolution in mental health treatment. - While those numbers do sound impressive, we need to pump the breaks a bit here. These are preliminary studies with small sample sizes. We don't have long-term data on safety and efficacy. It's exciting, sure. - Oh, come on, Eric, you're always such a wet blanket. These results are far better than what we see with traditional antidepressants. We're talking about patients experiencing rapid relief after years of suffering. This could be-- - I understand the excitement, Kate, but we can't ignore the potential risks. These are powerful drugs that alter brain chemistry in ways we don't fully understand yet. We need more rigorous studies. - You both raise valid points. Let's talk about the specific compounds being studied. Eric, what can you tell us about psilocybin? - Psilocybin is the active compound found in what's commonly known as magic mushrooms. It's a fascinating substance from a neurological perspective. When ingested, it's converted to psilocin in the body, which then acts on serotonin receptors in the brain. The current theory is that it might help reset brain circuits involved in depression. It's like rebooting a computer that's stuck in a loop. But here's the thing. We're still not entirely sure about the mechanisms. It's not as simple as just taking a pill and feeling better. The therapeutic context, the support provided during the experience, it all plays a crucial role. - And it's not just psilocybin TED. Research is also being conducted on MDMA, ayahuasca, and other psychedelics. Each offers unique potential benefits. MDMA, for instance, is showing promise in treating PTSD. ayahuasca is being studied for its potential in addiction treatment. It's like we've stumbled upon a whole new toolbox for mental health treatment. - True, but each also carries unique risks. We need to understand these fully before moving forward. MDMA, for example, can cause significant increases in heart rate and blood pressure. Ayahuasca can interact dangerously with certain medications. These aren't trivial concerns. We're dealing with powerful substances that can have profound effects on both mind and body. - Let's look at this from a historical perspective. Can you think of a similar situation in medical history where a controversial substance was explored for therapeutic use? - Absolutely. This reminds me of the use of LSD and psychotherapy during the 1950s and 1960s. It's like deja vu, but with better science this time around. Back then, researchers like Stanislav Groff were conducting thousands of LSD-assisted therapy sessions. They were reporting some pretty amazing breakthroughs in treating alcoholism and neurosis. It was groundbreaking stuff at the time. People thought they'd found a magic bullet for mental health issues. - While that's true, it's also important to remember why those studies were halted. The widespread recreational use of LSD led to its criminalization, effectively ending legitimate research for decades. It's a cautionary tale about the dangers of getting too excited too quickly. We saw promising early results followed by a backlash that set research back by years. We can't afford to repeat those mistakes. But that's exactly why this current research is so important. We have a chance to approach this scientifically, learning from past mistakes. We're not in the wild west of the 60s anymore. - I agree that we should learn from the past, but that includes being cautious. The LSD research was often poorly controlled and led to exaggerated claims about its benefits. We can't afford to make the same mistakes. - Exaggerated claims? Come on, Eric, the potential here is real. We're seeing results that blow traditional treatments out of the water. Are we supposed to ignore that because of some misplaced caution? - Interesting comparison. How does the current research on psychedelics differ from those early LSD studies? - It's like night and day, Ted. Today's research is much more rigorous. We're not just giving people psychedelics and hoping for the best. We're using double-blind placebo-controlled trials, the gold standard in medical research. And get this, we're using advanced brain imaging techniques to understand exactly how these substances work. We can actually see how they're affecting brain activity. It's not guesswork anymore. We're building a solid scientific foundation for these treatments. - That's true, but we're still in the early stages. The sample sizes are small and we don't have long-term follow-up data. It's promising sure, but we need to be patient. Science moves slowly for a reason. We need to be absolutely certain about safety and efficacy before we even think about widespread use. And let's not forget, these substances are still illegal in most contexts that adds a whole other layer of complexity to the research process. - But the preliminary results are incredibly promising. We're seeing rapid and lasting improvements in patients who haven't responded to other treatments. These are people who've been suffering for years, Eric. Are we supposed to tell them to- - I'm not denying the potential, Kate, but we need to be patient and thorough. Rushing into widespread use could be dangerous. We're dealing with powerful substances that can have profound psychological effects. What if we miss something in our haste? What if there are long-term side effects? - Both of you raise valid points. Now let's consider the potential impact on mental health treatment. How might this change our approach to depression? - If proven safe and effective, it could revolutionize treatment, but that's a big if. We need to consider the practical challenges of administering these drugs in a clinical setting. It's not like prescribing a daily antidepressant. These treatments would likely involve intense supervised sessions that requires specialized training for therapists, controlled environments, and careful patient selection. It's a whole new paradigm of treatment. - Exactly. This could be a paradigm shift. Instead of daily medications that often come with a laundry list of side effects, we might be looking at occasional intensive treatment sessions that provide long-lasting relief. Imagine a world where people with depression don't have to take pills every day, where they can undergo a profound healing experience and find relief that lasts for months or even years. That's the potential we're looking at here. It's not just about treating symptoms, it's about potentially curing depression. Let's look to the future. How do you see this field developing over the next decade? Eric, what's your prediction? - I see a cautious progression. We'll likely see more clinical trials, but I don't expect widespread approval anytime soon. The regulatory hurdles are significant, and there's still a lot of stigma around these substances. We're talking about drugs that have been illegal for decades. Changing public perception and policy takes time. I think we'll see continued research, maybe some breakthrough studies, but widespread clinical use. That's probably further down the road. - I disagree. I think we're on the cusp of a revolution in mental health treatment. Within a decade, I believe we'll see Psilocybin and MDMA-assisted therapies available in specialized clinics across the country. The need is too great, and the-- - That's overly optimistic, Kate. Even if the research continues to show promise, the development of protocols, training of therapists, and establishment of specialized clinics will take time. We're talking about a fundamental shift in how we approach mental health treatment. - But the need is urgent. Traditional treatments aren't working for many people. We can't afford to wait decades while people suffer. Every day we delay is another day someone struggles with debilitating depression. We have a potential-- - Interesting perspective. Now let's consider potential roadblocks. What could hinder the progress of this research? - The biggest risk is misuse or abuse. If these substances become more accessible, we could see a repeat of the 1960s with widespread recreational use leading to a backlash against legitimate research. We're walking a tightrope here. On one side, we have the potential for groundbreaking treatments. On the other, the risk of these substances being misused, leading to public panic, and potentially shutting down research altogether, it's a delicate balance. - That's fear-mongering. With proper regulation and education, we can prevent that. The real risk is letting unfounded fears hold back a potentially life-saving treatment. We're not talking about handing out psychedelics like candy. - It's not fear-mongering to be cautious. We're dealing with powerful substances that can have profound effects on the brain. We need to proceed carefully. What if we miss something? What if there are long-term effects we haven't anticipated? - But we also need to consider the cost of inaction. How many people will continue to suffer from treatment-resistant depression while we debate? We have a chance to fundamentally change how we treat mental illness. We should seize it. Every day we wait is another day- - Well, this has certainly been an illuminating discussion. We've covered a lot of ground today from the historical context of psychedelic research to the potential future of mental health treatment. It's clear that this is a complex issue with no easy answers. Thank you both for sharing your insights and perspectives. As research in this field continues, it will be fascinating to see how it develops. Until next time, this is Ted from Listen2. Thank you for tuning in.