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B.C.’s Batsh*t Election

Shit-posting candidates, climate change denial, outright racism, and those damn paper straws. Host Noor Azrieh calls up Arno Kopecky, Shannon Waters, and Mo Amir to ask what the hell is going on in B.C.’s election. 


And, the latest on the foreign interference commission, pharmacare, and Alberta’s Bill of Rights.


Host: Noor Azrieh

Credits: Aviva Lessard (Producer), Noor Azrieh (Host/Producer), Caleb Thompson (Audio Editor and Technical Producer), Max Collins (Production Manager), Jesse Brown (Publisher and Editor), Tony Wang (Artwork)

Guests: Arno Kopecky, Shannon Waters, Mo Amir


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Broadcast on:
15 Oct 2024
Audio Format:
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(whistling) - "Canada Land," funded by you. - Hey, it's Noraziriya, and today we're talking politics, where batshit is the new normal. This week, shitposting candidates, climate change denial, outright racism, and those damn paper straws. What the hell is going on in BC's election? - I don't know how else to describe it, but as a shit show. - And the latest on the Foreign Interference Commission, PharmaCare, and Alberta's Bill of Rights. That's this episode after the break. - This episode is brought to you by CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health. They believe that everyone deserves better mental health care. That's just true, right? Everybody deserves better mental health care, and CAMH are doing crucial, important work. October 6th to 12th is Mental Illness Awareness Week, and October 10th is World Mental Health Day. CAMH is building better mental health care for everyone. Visit CAMH.ca/CanadaLand to ensure that no one is left behind. - This episode is brought to you by our longtime sponsor, Douglas. I don't know you. You don't know me, so I get it. You're a bit skeptical. When I tell you that nothing is as good as a Douglas mattress, but the Douglas is trusted by more than 250,000 Canadians. Douglas is giving our listeners a free sleep bundle with each mattress purchase. Get the sheets, pillows, mattress, and pillow protectors free with your Douglas purchase today. Visit douglas.ca/CanadaLand to claim this offer. That's douglas.ca/CanadaLand. We have a crisis in health care. We've got a crisis in affordability. We've got a crisis in housing. Climate change is real. Vaccines work. We don't call gay people rumors. - We have two leaders be treating from climate action in this province. - What you're hearing is a face off between the leaders of BC's incumbent NDP, the conservatives who barely mattered a year ago, and the Greens, the BC liberals, who you might remember, yeah, they're out of the picture. They tried to rebrand last year from the BC liberals to BC United. And I think it's fair to say they flopped their so-called glow up, hard, to the point where the party doesn't even exist anymore. Some people thought BC United was a soccer team. The conservatives saw the opening and went for the shot. Right now, they're pulling just five points behind the NDP. And frankly, that's a pretty big deal for the BC conservatives. They haven't been in power for decades. And the guy leading the charge is John Rustad. He's demanding justice over the vaccine mandates. - I believe that people should have choice that shouldn't be thrust upon them and forced upon them or coerced. He's demanding justice over the drug crisis. - We need to make sure that we bring an end to decriminalization and safe supply. - And he's demanding justice over paper straws. - Paper straws suck, and I'm sorry, we've got to get rid of those. It doesn't work for people in BC. - And the carbon tax? He says he'll scrap it. - How is it that we've convinced carbon-based beings that carbon is a problem? - Their surge in popularity has got the BC NDP shook. It seems like they're afraid that the BC conservatives are gonna benefit from the surging popularity of the federal conservative party. I say this because the NDP is now petitioning the courts to force the BC conservatives to change how their name shows up on election ballots. They wanna include the letters BC before the words conservative party. This episode I'm talking to Arno Kapeki. He's an environmental journalist and an author based in Vancouver. And Moamir, the host of the Van Color podcast, and a regular BC political commentator. And finally, Shannon Waters, the BC politics reporter for the narwhal. And I wanna know if BC's wheat smoking, tree-hugging, blunt-stone-wearing, kombucha-drinking, slack-lining electorate, choose John Rustad as their next provincial leader? What could that tell us about the political future of the rest of the country? Let's get into it. Hey, Arno, thanks so much for coming on the show. - Hey, Noah, thanks for having me. - Hey, Mo, thanks for making the time. - Hey, Noah, I'm honored to be here. - What's up, Shannon? Happy to have you here. - Yeah, happy to be here. Thanks, Norm. - All right, maybe the best place to start is really the basics. Arno, the BC parties, they don't really match up to their federal counterparts. Maybe run me through BC's political party conversion table. Who's who? - Oh, man, well, it's easier now that there's no more BC liberals because for a long time we had BC liberals who were masquerading as liberals, but were actually really conservative and they famously imploded a month ago. - The leader of BC's official opposition bowed out of the race just two months before the provincial election, folding his party into the surging BC conservatives. - And now they are the BC conservatives who are actually very inextricably linked to the federal conservatives, I would say. The BC NDP is our governing party. They are at arms length from the federal NDP, but broadly comparable, in my opinion. And then there's the BC Greens who have two seats in the legislature, led by Sonya first and hour, probably does not have a hope in heck of forming the next government. - Mo, you called the election a batshit election. What do you mean by that? - It's a shit show. It's certainly testing the palate and the tolerance of the electorate in terms of the quality of candidates we've seen. There are people who I would basically categorize as internet shit posters, primarily in the BC conservatives that are running for office and some that will probably win those writings. I don't know how else to describe it, but as a shit show. - I've been watching this election play out through Twitter, through the news, and it feels really explosive and wild. Is it usually this crazy? - There was definitely a period where it felt like someone was gonna get into a fist fight. Like, it does seem to get very personal. Calling it crazy is very fair. - BC has something of a history of very odd political party affiliations, interparty, backstabbing, collapses, intrigue. We have had similar situations before in BC, but it's been a long time. Most of the current century, we've only had two governments. They have been very stable. They've tended to have fairly large majorities. And the BC liberals were a big tent party. So you had everybody from folks who voted for the liberals federally and might be fairly socially progressive, but say fiscally conservative. And then you would have some people who are deep, deep in the blue tent as well, all working under this one party, which basically existed to try and keep the NDP out of power, which is exactly why they no longer exist, because the conservatives finally became a viable option again to keep the NDP out of power. And now here we are. - Calling it a shicshow doesn't entirely capture because it's not just everybody claiming like climate change is a hoax to manipulate the human race or that like vaccine mandates are government control of the human population tactic or the Palestinians are inbred little time bombs. That is one party who is doing this. And it is a mind fuck for a sitting government who wants to have a rational, reasonable discussion to see people saying that and then watch them like gain to like 50% of the polls. - Shannon, you interviewed John Rustad or sat down with John Rustad earlier this year. Talk to me about him. What is his deal? - I've spoken with John several times over the years. One of the interactions I had with him that has been bouncing around in my brain lately is back in 2018, I asked John Rustad what it was like being in opposition. You know how he was feeling and he was just very blunt and he said, it sucks. So this is a guy who has been I think focused on getting back into government. He doesn't enjoy being in opposition. He doesn't maybe find as much meaning in the role of criticizing government and holding government accountable. And to think that now he's gone from being like literally booted from the BC Liberal Party that he had been a member of for so long to leading this conservative party that is challenging the NDP for government is really kind of mind blowing. But I think it is really telling that like there's not a lot of people who I think prior to about six months ago could even tell you who John Rustad was. - For people who are unaware of John Rustad, he is not a bombastic political figure in the way that Pierre Pauliev is or Donald Trump is. I've had him on my show twice as well. He's actually very soft spoken and I would go so far as to say just in his demeanor and his interaction. He's actually a very pleasant person to talk to. Again, I'm setting aside the content of what he says or espouses. But he just comes off as like a grandpa like figure. He's not arrogant or he's not even rude in a sense. - Shannon, you mentioned something in your response about like it feels like John Rustad came out of nowhere but he's kind of been here for a while. And I think maybe partly the reason for that is what feels like a pylon of scandal after scandal after controversy, maybe, Mo, you can talk me through just some of those key moments there. - I mean, a lot of it really centered around climate change denial. And that was initially what got him booted from the BC Liberals, which then became BC United. And I've argued in the tie-e that he is an old school climate change denier in the sense that he denies that anthropomorphic climate change is real. He will acknowledge that, oh, maybe humans have an impact on the climate, but he doesn't see it as the primary driver. He also told the Globe and Mail that he sees that as false, that idea is false. Moors come up about him with regard to vaccine skepticism in talking to some, let's just call them anti-vax folks. He called it the so-called vaccine, said that he regretted taking the vaccine. He didn't really explain why. He did end up backtracking that saying, oh, you know, I'm triple-vax. And I think seniors should get vaxed and I'm just against the vax mandates, not the vaccine, which again, I don't know for the general public if that's enough of a distinction. - So after I had the second shot of the COVID vaccine, about six weeks later, I actually had a heart problem. And I actually got a third shot a number of months later, but through a process when I went in and talking to health officials about having that, the question they had for me was only one word, Moderna. And to me, that tells me that there has been some issues. And so from that perspective, I do regret getting the COVID vaccines. - Plus, you know, more to the vaccine skepticism. There was video that recently surfaced from earlier this year where he was not necessarily advocating for, but certainly expressed support for this idea of a quote unquote Nuremberg 2.0, which is the prosecution of government officials and others who brought in vaccine mandates. - I can say that there's something that's sort of outside the scope in terms of a jurisdictional British Columbia, but if, you know, we would certainly be participating with other jurisdictions as we look at those sort of issues. - And that's why I go back to saying it's a shit show. It's the cast of characters that he's surrounded himself with in terms of candidates who have just said very obscene things, very incorrect things. There are other policies that John Rustad has advocated for, which simply are just not possible. I mean, he talks about bringing police to the ports, which again is federal jurisdiction. He talks about shutting down safe consumption sites, which again, we've seen in the courts, the government loses on those. There are several things where he just seems to lack a depth of understanding and sells a very sloganistic, you know, simple solution to people which I think can resonate, but ultimately isn't that realistic. - Why is it that the candidates from the conservative party feel really fringe? (laughing) - I mean, they didn't exist. There was a non-entity. They had like 2% of the vote in the last 100 elections in British Columbia. They literally have been created out of scratch. I don't know how many writings there are in this province, 90, some, I think. - 93. - 93, thank you, Shannon. They had to whip up a candidate for 93 writings and they did it in a massive rush and who was drawn to the conservative banner that I mean, to me it says a whole lot about the conservative brand these days that this is who responds to the call at a moment's notice is these kinds of folks who, you know, it's a continent-wide cultural phenomenon right now. - But I would add that there's a lot of people who were rejected from running for the BC Liberals/BC United as well. - I think it's partly a reflection of like the polarization that has occurred partly as a result of the pandemic. A lot of the issues that the conservatives are concerned about and, you know, express have to do with the vaccine mandates, public health restrictions that were implemented during the pandemic, issues around, you know, expression. They have candidates who have said some very explicitly homophobic things and they are promising to get rid of an anti-bullying tool that was actually implemented by the former Liberal government and has been shown to, it's called SOGI, so sexual orientation and gender identity, but the focus of it is basically like, people are people and they live their lives in different ways and we should accept and respect people. Like that is my understanding of the general gist of SOGI. - Rest that voted in favor of it. - As the father of an eight-year-old daughter who is in school right now, I can confirm your interpretation tonight. It's been found to like help reduce bullying even against like heterosexual student. Like it's generally been accepted as a good thing and now the conservatives are saying, parents should have the right to decide what kinds of messaging their children are receiving in school and we're gonna get rid of SOGI and build some other anti-bullying platform instead that, you know, doesn't focus on the rights and wellbeing of a minority of kids who are to SLGBQ. I think the quality of candidates and sort of the colorfulness of the candidates that the conservatives have attracted also really speaks to where Rustad started drawing his support from when he was booted. Part of the reason that his clarification around his Nuremberg 2.0 comments, I don't think really holds water. It's just not particularly plausible to me that he's been moving in these circles for like two years and he had never heard of this concept that is very popular amongst a segment of his base. - He literally says in the video, he literally says Nuremberg 2.0, ah yes. - Nuremberg 2.0, yes. - That's the quote, like he acknowledges he knows what it is. - 100%. One of the things that I think was really telling is how few of the BC United, which is former BC liberal, just to be extra confusing, candidates, the conservatives picked up when that party imploded. It was very, very few and most of them, I would say, save for one, were on the very sort of far, the farther conservative end of the spectrum there. - This episode is brought to you by our longtime sponsor, Douglas. I'm a restless sleeper. I'm a girl who's tossing and turning all night. I wouldn't be surprised if I literally woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Are you a restless sleeper too? With my Douglas mattress, I honestly don't need to worry about it though, and you don't have to either. The Douglas has got this elastics foam for added support and a bit of spring and the support foam actually minimizes motion transfer between sleepers. So, no more restless nights. Douglas is giving our listeners a free sleep bundle with each mattress purchase. Get the sheets, pillows, mattress, and pillow protectors free with your Douglas purchase today. Visit Douglas.ca/CanadaLand to claim this offer. That's Douglas.ca/CanadaLand. - This episode is brought to you by Policy Me. If you have benefits that is fantastic, I'm glad for you, but not everyone has a job with benefits. A lot of people are self-employed. I was one of them for many years. A lot of people are retired, congratulations. On the downside though, you may find yourself paying out of pocket for lots of medical expenses. That's why you should consider Policy Me. Policy Me's health and dental insurance offers a comprehensive solution to things like prescriptions, glasses, other extended health services like massages and chiropractors. Most of this stuff is not covered by government healthcare plans in Canada. Similar to Policy Me's term life insurance that we've told you about before on Canada Land, health and dental insurance is simple and affordable insurance. It's really easy to get started with. There are no lengthy forms, no medical exams. Coverage is guaranteed. Look, if you need to go see a dentist or you need like a therapeutic massage, do not let the fear of the costs get in the way of your health. Head to policyme.com and secure your health and dental coverage in just five minutes. No medical questions will be asked. That's P-O-L-I-C-Y-M-E.com, policyme.com. Go check it out. - I wanna shift gears a little bit and talk about the NDP. More specifically, their leader, David Eby, is he well liked? (laughs) - I think he's sort of awkward and gangly, he's like six foot six and awkward physically and perhaps a touch. You know, he's the brainiac, super intelligent lawyer. I find him to be quite progressive. He came up as a lawyer representing homeless folks and others on the downtown east side of Vancouver and really fighting for social justice. My thing is he is like, people agree with him and his policies a lot, but maybe don't resonate with him or connect with him on a personal level. He doesn't have the charm that the previous two premieres John Horgan and even Christy Clark. - She was a charming person. She really connected with voters and had like a, she was very relatable in the way that she came across. - Mo, you wrote a piece for the Tai Yee and the headline reads, "The BC NDP is boring voters. That could be their selling point." (laughs) What do you mean by that? - Yeah, I mean, when they came out with their platform and I think even they're messaging right now, they're not really selling British Columbians on some grandiose transformative vision of what the province can be. It's a lot of incremental progress. And I understand that any incumbent government often faces the question when they put forth new policy, well, why didn't you do it when you were in power? I think that the kind of boring incremental approach actually becomes quite appealing when it's juxtaposed to what John Rustad and the conservatives are offering. And I do think that by being laser focused on the negative campaigning against Rustad, I do think that that will be effective because a lot of this stuff turns people off. I talk to my dad, I talk to other people who don't follow politics and they just read the headlines and they go, "Hey, is this guy this crazy? Did he really say that?" And I'm like, he did, you know? I do think it will be an effective campaign strategy for them. - It doesn't seem to really be going well for the NDP, their plan to stick to being boring. - They're up in the polls though. They're up in the polls, nor? - A little bit. - Why, they seem to be really neck and neck here. - But they have a much more efficient vote as well. You know, I don't think it's great. I don't think it should be this close. Even just based on the organizations of the two parties, you have a well-oiled machine with the BCNDP and you have kind of a thrown together party on the other end. So I agree it shouldn't be this close, but-- - Why is it then? - Why is it? - Yeah. - I mean, I think it's a pure polyev effect. - Expand on that. - Well, I think the conservative brand is resonating with a lot of people. So people might not know who John Rustad is, but they see the name conservative and they go, "Oh, I'm a conservative." And actually, you know, I talked to Karim Alam of Fair Review Strategies about this and he said in some of the polling that his firm had conducted that there is more tribalism in BC. People are voting conservative because they identify as a conservative as opposed to saying, "I like XYZ policy." - That maybe everywhere now is a microcosm of these big, big currents that are sweeping through like basically all of society. We're living through a period of insane change and upheaval on pretty much every file from climate change to like democratic stuff, inflation, like there is just so much rapid change. And I think people are just genuinely like bewildered and afraid. And yeah, I think there's like just a really fascinating psychological response to that, which is to embrace conspiracy and a slightly autocratic tendency and these very simple promises that we can just go back to the way that it was. Canada's broken, but we can like go back to the way things were and it'll be fine. And trust me, vote for me. And we'll fix, you know, these, we'll ask the tax, we'll fix the homes, we'll build the homes and jail the drug addicts, whatever. And then everything will be fine. We'll just sweep it all aside. - I just want to jump in on that because I do think that the desire for change without the need for a lot of details is something that is driving popularity for the conservatives, the NDP have been empowered now for seven years, steered BC through the pandemic, but they have to run on their record now. And the issues that they have made promises on and that people expect the government to address are huge housing affordability. BC has long been one of the most expensive housing markets in the country and the NDP has not managed to turn that around. Now, is that entirely their fault? Probably not. Some might argue that they should have introduced these transformative housing policies that they pushed through last fall sooner. You know, healthcare, we have ER closures. People can't find a family doctor. People are being treated in hallways. They're, you know, stuck in a hospital hallway for weeks, but that's happening in every other province too. - Totally. - It's a live issue in the New Brunswick collection. Alberta is having the same problem, so is Ontario. So the NDP are rightfully being held responsible for the state of things in BC right now, but a lot of the problems that people want to see change are big, complicated ones. You don't necessarily fix those in four years. - But the BC conservatives aren't the only one scrapping things. The NDP is now willing to walk back the carbon tax. So I guess my question is, is the conservative move right word pushing the NDP in that direction as well? - Yes. - Yeah. - Yes. - 100%. - It's a better bad policy. The carbon tax is a loser, unfortunately, right? And I think more unfortunately, and going to an earlier point that you made ARNO, we used to have consensus over things. We've had a carbon tax since 2008. You know, we used to have a lot of consensus on different issues that suddenly are now dividing us politically. And I think that's where it becomes really troubling where you had people on the same side, and now suddenly it's really too extreme. And I don't think that necessarily serves anyone when these issues are complicated and require a lot more nuance and a lot more detail. - Yeah, there's like a public psychosis kicking in. - What can the rest of us learn about what is going on in BC? What can the country learn from what is unfolding there? - That would be easier to answer on October 20th, the day I'm here, the election, and we'll see who wins. - I don't know that we're gonna know on the 20th who won. We end up with a handful of really close writings and the NDP and the conservatives both have a similar seat count. I'm gonna be writing three election scenario stories for Saturday, I'll tell you that much. Yeah, BC is an interesting case. Like I started covering politics in 2017 and it was kind of similar. Nobody had been paying attention to BC politics for a long time. Like we stay boring for a while and everybody kind of forgets about us here on the other side of the Rocky Mountains and then all of a sudden something weird happens and everybody's like, what is going on over there? If you had told me a year ago that the NDP would be fighting for its political life against a BC Conservative party, I just, I would not have believed you. If you told me that the carbon tax would be dead in BC where it was born a year from now, I don't think I would have believed you. Like you, if you are someone who is interested in politics these days, you have to be willing to question what you think you know about the way things work, about what political parties are willing to do for power and about what it takes to court the electorate. And if you're not willing to do that, you are going to get left in the dust. - You three, thank you so much. I really appreciate you for making the time. - Right, I'm Lauren, thank you so much, that was great. - Thanks for having me. - Thanks, Dora, this is a pleasure. - Every Tuesday, we dive into one story that we think matters, but there's always so much more that we're keeping tabs on. Sam, our Ottawa correspondent and producer is usually here to help fill us in, but he's off vacationing. Okay, King. So Aviva Lazard, our producer is here instead. This is even more politics from the Hill. Hey Aviva. - Hey Nour. - Tell me, what are you paying attention to these days? - Okay, I've been keeping my eye on the Foreign Interference Commission. You might remember from last year, the government set up a commission to look into possible interference into federal elections, specifically the one in 2019 and 2021. Right now in the commission, we're in the future looking stage, so they're looking into how it can be prevented. That phase is wrapping up this week. We can expect to hear testimony from Prime Minister Trudeau this week as well. - Ooh, that's exciting. - Last week, we heard some interesting things. So Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Jolie testified, and she said that she didn't know that Foreign Interference was taking place until she heard it through media reports, which kind of begs the question, why was she not briefed? Hopefully we'll get a bit more clarity and a bit more of a summary once everything wraps up, but there's definitely a lot of interesting things that have been coming out of this commission. - Totally, I mean, the news that Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Jolie knew nothing about what was going on, definitely raised an eyebrow. - What are you keeping your eye on? - Well, famously, we're heading into cuffing season, but I am thinking back to a very public, very ugly political breakup that happened just a little while ago. - I notified the Prime Minister that I've ripped up the supply and confidence agreement. - Do you remember how Prime Minister Trudeau said that he was not informed by Jagmeet saying that he was gonna end the confidence supply agreement before it happened? - When he decided to end Saka, he didn't even call me, right? There was, like, so the relationship obviously wasn't what I thought it was. - Yeah, it really took him by surprise. He marked me feeling really, really sad about it. But yes, although their love is no longer the impacts of their relationship, they kind of seemed to be living on a pharmacare bill that was central to the liberal NDP supply and confidence agreement has officially become law. - Pharmacare's finally here? - Pharmacare is here. The legislation is gonna inform the creation of any future national universal pharmacare plan, and it's gonna allow governments to sign deals with the provinces and with the territories to cover diabetes and birth control medications as part of the larger public health system. So maybe the lesson learned here is I guess good things can come out of even the ugliest breakups. - What else you got going on? - I've been keeping my eye on what's been happening in Alberta. Premier Daniel Smith recently published another one of her weird videos that seems to suggest that she's gonna be introducing legislation in the next little while to amend the Alberta bill of rights. - My fellow Albertans, I have some exciting news to share with you today about an important step forward for our province in protecting the rights and freedoms that are central to our identity as Albertans. - She proposed adding the following things. The right to make one's own choices over vaccinations and all medical decisions. The right to not be deprived of one's property without due legal process and just compensation. And one of the final proposed additions is the right to legally acquire, keep and safely use firearms. - Okay. - I don't know. This is all sounding very raw, raw America to me. And it's definitely something I wanna keep my eye on, possibly for a future episode. So if y'all wanna hear it, email us and let us know. Aviva, thanks so much for filling in. - Thanks for having me. (upbeat music) - That's been "This Week" in Canadian politics. I'll see you next Tuesday. What are you pissed off about? What are you watching closely? And what do you wanna hear us talk about on this show? You can tell us. You can also let us know what you thought of this episode. We might even read out your comments right here on the show. You can email me directly@nor@canidoland.com. This episode was written, produced and fact checked by Aviva Lazard and me. Mixing and mastering is by Caleb Thompson. Max Collins is our production manager. And Jesse Brown is our publisher and editor. Our theme music is by Nathan Burley. This episode is brought to you by Canada Land supporters, Jared Sykes, Marcus Wei and Adam Langley. If you value this podcast, you should support us. You'll get premium access to all of our shows ad-free. And that includes early releases and bonus content. Honestly, more than anything, you'll be a part of the solution to Canada's journalism crisis by keeping our work free and accessible to everybody. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Thank you for listening. (upbeat music) (heartbeat)